Monk session w/ Coltrane nodding off
Peter Valsamis
Monk. On the recording either Monk or Blakey shouted "Coltrane" and he
snapped out of it and played an amazing solo.
I'd like to know if this is indeed true and what track it was. I've heard
the track many times but just can't remember!
thanks,
pv
Martin Milgrim
Riverside.
Martin
bigtiny
at Slug's?
You can hear Monk yelling 'Coltrane! Coltrane!' at the end of the piano
solo...
k
Martin Milgrim <mmil...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:3A43CCBF...@gate.net...
Chuck Nessa
Blakey's press rolls save the day in more than one spot.
CN
Ron Hearn
Martin's right - it's on the Riverside recording. There may be some
other conversation on the live date as well which was at the Five Spot,
not Slug's which was a club in the late 60s.
Ron
Ron
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heath...@my-deja.com
Hawkins was also on the date.
I've read two reasons for Monk shouting Coltrane's name. First, the
version you site. Second, this session was a bit of a jam session and
Monk did not tell Bean and Trane what the solo order would be. Because
of this, Trane was not ready to solo and Monk had to tell him to start.
Coltrane, in interviews, claimed that he was clean before this record
date; I therefore believe the second version of the story.
Heath
In article <B6690443.125AD%vals...@mindspring.com>,
Luke Kaven
it). This story was told to me (and a lot of other people) by Ray Copeland
who was on that date. Its Monk's voice that you hear. Ray said that
Coltrane had been strung out.
Martin Milgrim <mmil...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:3A43CCBF...@gate.net...
bigtiny
think Slug's may have been owned by one of the Termini Bros. who were the
proprieters of the Five Spot....
keith
Ron Hearn <he...@telus.net> wrote in message
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Ron Hearn
heath...@my-deja.com wrote:
> It was on Monk's Riverside recording of Well You Needn't. Coleman
> Hawkins was also on the date.
> I've read two reasons for Monk shouting Coltrane's name. First, the
> version you site. Second, this session was a bit of a jam session and
> Monk did not tell Bean and Trane what the solo order would be. Because
> of this, Trane was not ready to solo and Monk had to tell him to
start.
> Coltrane, in interviews, claimed that he was clean before this record
> date; I therefore believe the second version of the story.
> Heath
Heath, I believe Leslie Gourse's book on Monk or maybe it was Porter's
Coltrane bio supports the second version. I don't have either handy,
but I recall one or the other saying that Trane was clean by then and
therefore, not nodding when Monk called on him.
Ron
Dennis J. Kosterman
> ... that Trane was clean by then and
>therefore, not nodding when Monk called on him.
I'll accept this, but maybe they had played a gig the night before and
he didn't get much sleep and he was nodding because he was tired -- I
do it all the time, and I've never touched heroin in my life; i.e.,
it's possible that both versions of the story have elements of truth.
Dennis J. Kosterman
den...@tds.net
Thomas F Brown
We were driving through a slum area in Baltimore the other day and, being
the good tour bus narrator that I am, I pointed out a junkie on the nod
to my spousal unit. She said "How do you know he's a junkie? Maybe he's
just having a bad day or something. You shouldn't assume things about
people you don't know."
I generally agree with the last, but this guy was standing in the middle
of the sidewalk on a beautiful sunny day, every muscle in his body so
relaxed that you couldn't tell what was holding him up, except for an
invisible coat hanger in his shirt hooked to an invisible coat rack.
In other words, it's not that difficult to tell the difference between
someone who didn't get enough sleep and someone on the nod. I'm willing
to bet the guys on that date had seen a junkie before.
PAUL MACCA
>> It was on Monk's Riverside recording of Well You Needn't. Coleman
>> Hawkins was also on the date.
>> I've read two reasons for Monk shouting Coltrane's name. First, the
>> version you site. Second, this session was a bit of a jam session and
>> Monk did not tell Bean and Trane what the solo order would be. Because
>> of this, Trane was not ready to solo and Monk had to tell him to
>start.
>> Coltrane, in interviews, claimed that he was clean before this record
>> date; I therefore believe the second version of the story.
>> Heath
>
>
>Heath, I believe Leslie Gourse's book on Monk or maybe it was Porter's
>Coltrane bio supports the second version. I don't have either handy,
>but I recall one or the other saying that Trane was clean by then and
>therefore, not nodding when Monk called on him.
>
Orrin Keepnews himself says that Trane's late entry was because of the
uncertainty regarding the solo sequence. Keep in mind that while Trane must
have been very familiar with the tune due to his (now legendary) stint with
Monk at the Five Spot, those previous live performances all took place within a
"quartet" setting. The recording of Well, You Needn't (as were all the other
numbers on the Monk's Music LP) were done by a "septet." And someone can
correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Monk performed with a septet
ensemble (w/ Coltrane) live at the Five Spot prior to the Monk's Music studio
session. So yeah, it is very plausible to believe that Coltrane's tardy solo
was due to uncertainty surrounding the arrangements needed to accomodate the
extra musicians.
Steve Emerson
>
> Ron Hearn wrote:
>
> >> It was on Monk's Riverside recording of Well You Needn't. Coleman
> >> Hawkins was also on the date.
> >> I've read two reasons for Monk shouting Coltrane's name. First, the
> >> version you site. Second, this session was a bit of a jam session and
> >> Monk did not tell Bean and Trane what the solo order would be. Because
> >> of this, Trane was not ready to solo and Monk had to tell him to
> >start.
> >> Coltrane, in interviews, claimed that he was clean before this record
> >> date; I therefore believe the second version of the story.
> >> Heath
> >
> >
> >Heath, I believe Leslie Gourse's book on Monk or maybe it was Porter's
> >Coltrane bio supports the second version. I don't have either handy,
> >but I recall one or the other saying that Trane was clean by then and
> >therefore, not nodding when Monk called on him.
> >
>
> Orrin Keepnews himself says that Trane's late entry was because of the
> uncertainty regarding the solo sequence. Keep in mind that while Trane must
> have been very familiar with the tune due to his (now legendary) stint with
> Monk at the Five Spot, those previous live performances all took place within a
> "quartet" setting.
This is good to know. In case it's of interest to anyone, the American
poet Clark Coolidge quotes the line "Coltrane! Coltrane!" in a poem of
the '70s, together with other uttered speech from Monk recordings such
as Johnny Griffin's "I got it, I got it, I got it."
SE.
Steve Emerson
>
> Where does this occur?
>
> Steve Emerson wrote:
>
> > together with other uttered speech from Monk recordings such
> > as Johnny Griffin's "I got it, I got it, I got it."
It's on "Blues Five Spot," from the Misterioso live date with Griffin;
1958. There's only one "I got it," not three. It's in the middle of
Griffin's solo -- he's telling the rest of the band to drop out.
Dutifully,
SE.
PAUL MACCA
>> Steve Emerson wrote:
>>
>> > together with other uttered speech from Monk recordings such
>> > as Johnny Griffin's "I got it, I got it, I got it."
>
>It's on "Blues Five Spot," from the Misterioso live date with Griffin;
>1958. There's only one "I got it," not three. It's in the middle of
>Griffin's solo -- he's telling the rest of the band to drop out.
>
Yes, but on the very NEXT track on the Misterioso LP (Let's Cool One), Griffin
does, in fact, yell out "I got it, I got it, I got it," to signal the band to
lay out while he solos. I'm 100% sure of this because I listened to the
Misterioso LP just to double-check myself before replying.
In the process of listening to this album again (as well as Thelonious in
Action) today, I'm simply astounded by the way Johnny Griffin played. Usually,
when you mention "tenor sax" in the same breath as Monk's quartet, the first
names that would pop into most people's minds would be Coltrane, Rollins, or
maybe Rouse. But Griffin's playing was distinctive and his audible grunts and
his soloing while the band grinds to a halt seemed to bring a sense of drama to
the performance that you don't hear from the other Monk quartets. A showman,
indeed.
Incidentally, my wife bought me something that I never heard before, a brand
new RVG CD of Griffin's "A Blowin' Session." I asked her how she picked out
this particular CD. She replied that she figured that any album which listed
names like Coltrane, Blakey, and Lee Morgan on the back would at least be of
some interest to me. Smart gal, she's finally learning what's cool to listen
to. The first jazz CD she ever bought for me was Kenny G's "Breathless." I
guess the fact that the disc is still sitting there in the plastic wrap told
her something. ;-)
Steve Emerson
>
> Steve Emerson wrote:
>
> >> Steve Emerson wrote:
> >>
> >> > together with other uttered speech from Monk recordings such
> >> > as Johnny Griffin's "I got it, I got it, I got it."
> >
> >It's on "Blues Five Spot," from the Misterioso live date with Griffin;
> >1958. There's only one "I got it," not three. It's in the middle of
> >Griffin's solo -- he's telling the rest of the band to drop out.
> >
>
> Yes, but on the very NEXT track on the Misterioso LP (Let's Cool One), Griffin
> does, in fact, yell out "I got it, I got it, I got it," to signal the band to
> lay out while he solos. I'm 100% sure of this because I listened to the
> Misterioso LP just to double-check myself before replying.
Oh good, thanks! For once I remembered something right. Should have kept
going to that next track.
> In the process of listening to this album again (as well as Thelonious in
> Action) today, I'm simply astounded by the way Johnny Griffin played. Usually,
> when you mention "tenor sax" in the same breath as Monk's quartet, the first
> names that would pop into most people's minds would be Coltrane, Rollins, or
> maybe Rouse. But Griffin's playing was distinctive and his audible grunts and
> his soloing while the band grinds to a halt seemed to bring a sense of drama to
> the performance that you don't hear from the other Monk quartets.
I agree completely. And Griffin was totally comfortable with those
heads, and understood the funk and swing of Monk's music. So that when
he soloed, you got much more than the too-frequent water-treading
operation.
SE.
Jack Woker
> In the process of listening to this album again (as well as Thelonious in
> Action) today, I'm simply astounded by the way Johnny Griffin played.
Griffin's playing is outstanding on this session, I agree. Drummer
Kenny Washington, who works with Griffin regularly, once told me a story
about this date. He mentioned to Griffin how much he loved his playing
on this date, and Griffin told him that he had no memory of the session
- he was completely shitfaced when they made it!
jack