Denny G & Dave Sanborn
Jill Emily Solek
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| |/| |/| |/ | |/ * Jill Emily Solek *
__| |/| |/| |///| |/// * je...@darwin.clas.virginia.edu *
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af145!zimd0b
>I thought his name was Kenny...
It's an easy way to combine Kenny G and Dave Sanborn - Denny G. Going even
further, you can use Denny GHee Jr. to refer to Kenny, Dave, George Howard,
Najee and Grover all at the same time.
gree...@netcom.com
In article <3itevf$b...@tabloid.amoco.com> you wrote:
: In article <D4Ks0...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
: It's an easy way to combine Kenny G and Dave Sanborn - Denny G. Going even
: It's an easy way to combine Kenny G and Dave Sanborn - Denny G. Going even
: further, you can use Denny GHee Jr. to refer to Kenny, Dave, George Howard,
: Najee and Grover all at the same time.
A freind of mine who attended NARM last week heard Sanborn's showcase,
andnd was marveling over the chops he displayed. Even though Sanborn &
these guys have been indulging themselves in contemporary jazz, they all
did their time in the shed (except for maybe Mr. G(ee whiz).
If you want to hear some great straight ahead playing, there are two sax
albums I've been talking up for Atlantic Jazz. One is by Wessell
Anderson, called "Warmdaddy In The Garden of Swing." The other is the
latest offering from Gary Bartz, a wonderful alto player, called "The Red
And Orange Poems." Give 'em a try if you want. In my opinion, each one is
a strong effort, and both swing!
Take care,
-Jamie Eldon
Take care,
-Jamie Eldon
C Notes Interactive
Interactive Marketing for the Music Industry
--
David G. Booth
> It's an easy way to combine Kenny G and Dave Sanborn - Denny G. Going even
> further, you can use Denny GHee Jr. to refer to Kenny, Dave, George Howard,
> Najee and Grover all at the same time.
You know, I really don't believe that Sanborn belongs lumped into
the same category as these other schmucks - he's the only one among them
with integrity and originality, his stuff has guts and stands
on it's own.
Magic Sax
artists (Kenny G, Najee, etc.) are NOT traditional jazz artists. They
don't play bop, or even anything close too it. But Kenny G has never
claimed to be a bop, or even a jazz, saxophonist. He has found his niche
in the music world and has stuck to it, and anyone who doesn't admire his
success, I feel, is missing the point. Maybe he's not Charlie
Parker...(who is?)...but think about it. If Parker were alive today, I
sincerely doubt he would be able to pull off the type of music Kenny G is
doing with any measure of success. Why? Because he's not that kind of
player. His tone wouldn't hold up to the fluid, "easy listening" style of
that music. Sure, he would play the hell out of it..but it would be an
entirely different kind of music. It's like comparing apples to oranges
(forgive the cliche).
Likewise, who can hear Sandborn's piercing tone and not recognize it
instantly. I compare it to legendary Paul Desmond. Desmond never played
flurries of 32nd notes the way Bird did...he layed back with that sweet,
sweet tone, and just played his heart out. There's no missing that
tone...it's instantly recognizeable. I know of no sax player who wouldn't
love to have that kind of recognition. It's what we (saxophonists) strive
for, or should strive for.
The controversy will no doubt continue for as long as music continues to
evolve..which hopefully will never cease. Artists such as Kenny G should
be considered pioneers, not heretics. I, for one, may have other musical
preferences. But anyone who has carved for themselves (and others) such a
lucrative musical niche, and is able to reach a large segment of the
population who never even would have considered tuning in to jazz
otherwise, has got my unconditional admiration and respect.
>> Magic Sax <<
Bop Cop
>success, I feel, is missing the point. Maybe he's not Charlie
>Parker...(who is?)...but think about it. If Parker were alive today, I
>sincerely doubt he would be able to pull off the type of music Kenny G is
>doing with any measure of success. Why? Because he's not that kind of
>player. His tone wouldn't hold up to the fluid, "easy listening" style of
His tone wouldn't "hold up"? By the way, welcome to this newsgroup, Magic Sax.
I'm sure you're not aware that we beat this subject to death for about a month
sometime ago. First of all Kenny is playing a soprano and Bird played an
alto. Second, have you heard Charlie Parker with Strings? Have you heard Just
Friends? Bird could make and alto SOUND like a soprano. (And while I'm at it
Trane could make a tenor sound damn near like an alto - check out John
Coletrane Master Tapes). Anyway the point is, I wouldn't say Bird couldn't do
this or that. He could do anything he wanted with a saxophone, even make a
masterpiece (Lover Man) while in severe need of a fix.
>
>Likewise, who can hear Sandborn's piercing tone and not recognize it
>instantly. I compare it to legendary Paul Desmond. Desmond never played
>flurries of 32nd notes the way Bird did...he layed back with that sweet,
Bird played that way too. Whenever he wanted to. Ballads were his specialty.
>sweet tone, and just played his heart out. There's no missing that
>tone...it's instantly recognizeable. I know of no sax player who wouldn't
>love to have that kind of recognition. It's what we (saxophonists) strive
>for, or should strive for.
Dave's "recognition", sure. Dave's tone? I don't think you want to speak for
all sax players here.
>The controversy will no doubt continue for as long as music continues to
>evolve..which hopefully will never cease. Artists such as Kenny G should
>be considered pioneers, not heretics. I, for one, may have other musical
>preferences. But anyone who has carved for themselves (and others) such a
>lucrative musical niche, and is able to reach a large segment of the
Lucrative. See here, your talking business, and not art. If music is not art
to you then I can understand your admiration for the money makers. And that
large segment of the population, when you start worrying about them, that's
when it's time to realize that your music will only last as long as you do.
"Large segment of population" sounds suspiciously like "masses" to me, and you
know what they say about the "masses"... it's particularly true when it comes
to jazz music. Remember Bird lives. For that matter, even Elvis lives, as far
as music is concerned. Dave and Ken, well, like the Tom Scotts and Ronnie Laws
that preceeded them, they'll probably be dead before they're gone. That's the
*beauty* about true art and time. Peace, my brother.
>population who never even would have considered tuning in to jazz
>otherwise, has got my unconditional admiration and respect.
>
> >> Magic Sax <<
Bop Cop.
/B{>
Aw, geeesh, here we go again. "And there's the bell for round two..."
On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Bop Cop wrote:
> >
> >Likewise, who can hear Sandborn's piercing tone and not recognize it
> >instantly. I compare it to legendary Paul Desmond. Desmond never played
> >flurries of 32nd notes the way Bird did...he layed back with that sweet,
>
> Bird played that way too. Whenever he wanted to. Ballads were his specialty.
Ironic that to many beboppers, Bird's ballads seemed like a sellout
to the pressures of the commercial world. Admittedly, he played them for
art's sake, not for cash, but how can you say that Sanborn or Kenny G
isn't playing their music for the same reasons?
Also odd how Bird felt that the ballads were far more enjoyable
and far more legitamate as an artform than the music he "invented"
(bebop). If Bird could have spent his life with the strings, he might
never have played bop at all...
> >The controversy will no doubt continue for as long as music continues to
> >evolve..which hopefully will never cease. Artists such as Kenny G should
> >be considered pioneers, not heretics. I, for one, may have other musical
> >preferences. But anyone who has carved for themselves (and others) such a
> >lucrative musical niche, and is able to reach a large segment of the
>
> Lucrative. See here, your talking business, and not art. If music is not art
> to you then I can understand your admiration for the money makers. And that
> large segment of the population, when you start worrying about them, that's
> when it's time to realize that your music will only last as long as you do.
> "Large segment of population" sounds suspiciously like "masses" to me, and you
> know what they say about the "masses"... it's particularly true when it comes
> to jazz music. Remember Bird lives. For that matter, even Elvis lives, as far
> as music is concerned. Dave and Ken, well, like the Tom Scotts and Ronnie Laws
> that preceeded them, they'll probably be dead before they're gone. That's the
> *beauty* about true art and time. Peace, my brother.
For the record, would you not agree that your idol, Wynton, has
found HIS lucrative niche? How does this differ (aside from the fact
that Wynton supports your view of "what is jazz") from the case of
Sanborn or Kenny? I believe what Magic Sax is saying is that he respects an
artist who remains true to their own style and carves out a niche for
themselves (especially if they manage to make it popular: like Bird did
to bebop, despite opposition from the purists). I respect that point of
view. Welcome to r.m.b., Magic Sax...
Greg Marks
/B{>
Eric E. Olson
: m [something about kenny g and charlie parker deleted]
the only thing that bird and kenny g have in common is that their tones
are absolutely horrible. that's where it stops. i've heard enough of
parker to know that he did well with what he had. on "lover man" his tone
was absolute crap (this from a verve 'essentials of charlie parker' cd).
on others he sounded better. kenny on the other hand, should be able to
afford a better sound after all the money he makes peddling that stuff he
plays. i won't call it music, but i won't call it shit, either. everything
has it's place, you know.
bird was a pioneer of bebop. that's wonderful, i can accept it. it is a
true statement. we can't call kenny a pioneer of anything yet except maybe
commercially-successful but not complex "music" (for lack of a better term).
let's wait awhile so that we can see if kenny keeps going and going and going.
nobody walked up to bird on the day he got his first sax and said he was a
pioneer of bebop. kenny g has a long way to go before he could be considered
a pioneer of anything innovative.
peace
eric
ron santen/sarah livingstone
Dont agree - Kenny G happily accepts whatever crap his PR people
put out about him if it makes $$$$ - his CDs are put into the jazz
listings and jazz racks in CD shops - hence he can be criticised as a
"jazz pretender".
Comparing Charlie Parker to Kenny G. is not like comparing apples
and oranges - its like comparing mangoes (Parker) and dog-turds (G).
John Williams
> blah..blah.."Large segment of population" sounds suspiciously like
> "masses" to me, and you know what they say about
> the "masses"...blah..blah..
So, if a LOT of us read your post, and like it, it isn't as good as if
just a few read it? If MILLIONS of us read it, it suddenly becomes bad
because it may be, gasp, POPULAR!!!.
The conclusion is: if very few of us read it, it's REALLY GOOD!
Bop Cop
Mangoes! Very deep! Thanks! I was tired of taking all the heat by myself. I
thought maybe I was going crazy, and I was really getting ready to go out at
lunch today and re-check out some Kenny to see whether I was becomming "old"
and "out of touch".
I would just like to add; the comment about Parker's _absolutely_horrible_
tone was sad. What's even sadder is the relative implicit consent that the
silence among the newsgroup shows. But I think the whole thing with the
differing in jazz understanding is really generational in nature. It's sad,
but it could be worse. I'm glad I was too young to see what was going on in
the '60s!
Idris
/B{>
On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Bop Cop wrote:
> In article <3kl3r1$6...@classic.iinet.com.au>, san...@iinet.com.au (ron santen/sarah livingstone) writes:
> >
> >Dont agree - Kenny G happily accepts whatever crap his PR people
> >put out about him if it makes $$$$ - his CDs are put into the jazz
> >listings and jazz racks in CD shops - hence he can be criticised as a
> >"jazz pretender".
> >
> >Comparing Charlie Parker to Kenny G. is not like comparing apples
> >and oranges - its like comparing mangoes (Parker) and dog-turds (G).
> >
>
> Mangoes! Very deep! Thanks! I was tired of taking all the heat by myself. I
> thought maybe I was going crazy, and I was really getting ready to go out at
> lunch today and re-check out some Kenny to see whether I was becomming "old"
> and "out of touch".
Nobody's saying that Kenny's a jazz master. What's being said is
that the guy's doing his own thing. Period. If you don't like it,
that's your opinion. Personally, I don't like it either. But that
doesn't mean it isn't jazz, and that doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.
He has a right to release it, and until the entire world decides
otherwise, the world has decided to call it jazz. LIVE WITH IT, AND SUCK
IT IN...
>
> I would just like to add; the comment about Parker's _absolutely_horrible_
> tone was sad. What's even sadder is the relative implicit consent that the
> silence among the newsgroup shows. But I think the whole thing with the
> differing in jazz understanding is really generational in nature. It's sad,
> but it could be worse. I'm glad I was too young to see what was going on in
> the '60s!
I gotta agree with your point here Idris. Parker's tone DOES
take a while to get used to, but a lot of that is recording quality
coupled with the fact that Bird rarely had one setup for any length of
time; he kept selling them to make ends meet. I love what Bird did with
Lover Man, but in comparison to the "modern" sax sound, it is a bit
thin. I'm told that in real life, Parker sounded a lot more (tone wise)
like Cannonball's later recordings: verey rich, often quite dark. It's a
shame that what little remains in good condition is so poorly reproduced.
To be honest, when it comes to tone, I never cared for Coltrane.
But his sound has still changed the face of Jazz forever. I learned to
like it, as an aquired taste.
Who's to say that Sanborn and Kenny won't do the same...
Greg Marks
/B{>
AFC PeterS
> the comment about Parker's _absolutely_horrible_ tone was sad.
> What's even sadder is the relative implicit consent that the
> silence among the newsgroup shows.
In my case, the silence was because I was so appalled I had no response.
What can you say to someone who thinks Bird had lousy tone? I didn't think
anything I could say would either give the poster pause to reexamine
Parker or make the poster's cluelessness more obvious than it was, so I
left it alone.
Peter Stoller
Eric E. Olson
: tone was sad. What's even sadder is the relative implicit consent that the
: silence among the newsgroup shows. But I think the whole thing with the
: differing in jazz understanding is really generational in nature. It's sad,
: but it could be worse. I'm glad I was too young to see what was going on in
: the '60s!
:
: Idris
hello. i was the one who posted about parker's tone. if you recall my exact
words, i said that parker did the best with what he had. i also said that
his tone on "lover man" was bad. in addition, his tone is much better on o
other tracks that i've heard. parker's tone is not bad. everyone has (or
in his case, had,) a bad day now and then. be assured that no generalizations
were stated or implied. my tail's between my legs on this one.
jazz in generational in understanding at least from the sound concept. of
course, it's also different from person to person. arturo sandoval plays
nothing like sonny rollins who plays nothing like johnny hodges who plays
nothing like (dare i say it?) kenny g. everyone contributes a little in their
own way and time. using bird for an example, it takes a lot of time to fully
understand everyone's contribution.
as for saxophone sound, everyone's is different. the individual listener
decides whether the sound is good or not. as long as you've got good air
support and embouchure, in my mind you have the potential of making a
great sound, no matter what the mouthpiece and reed setup.
peace everyone. long live bird and diz
eric
Lyudmila
So good that he's sold lots (millions?) of records. Ergo, the cat is a
musician.
Number 2: I don't know the album, but Kenny G. wrote at least one really
cooking jazz tune, not with a 4/4 jump beat but with a heavier funk beat.
I think these crossover tunes, a well known example is Sidewinder, are
great for jazz, and good ones are hard to come by.
Number 3: Kenny G has more technique than any pre-Bird sax player. Sorry
folks. From what I've heard of his tenor work, he plays the modern funk
idiom. Hey, that's jazz.
Number 4: We're in the middle of a jazz renaisance and all you sourpusses
can do is carp. Does make for good reading though!
AFC PeterS
> Kenny G has more technique than any pre-Bird sax player.
I'll answer that in two words: Coleman Hawkins.
Peter Stoller
Bop Cop
Hey, I wondered where you where! I'm listening to this as we speak (Lover Man)
on two different Bird CDs, both by Verve. I have to admit the tone wasn't the
best on Lover Man (this is the one where he and Diz do that funny ending, which
I didn't appreciate) but on the second CD, Just Friends (playing now) let's you
know just what Parker could do. The sweetest alto you will ever hear! If you
don't know better you could mistake it for a soprano! The Lover Man could have
been - and it sounds like - inferior reed and/or mouthpiece. Hell, he could
have just got some horn out the pawn shop for all we know. But Lover Man, how
can you even CARE about the tone when the work on that song is _definitive_!?
Bird made that song his, all due respects to Roger, Jimmy and Jimmy.
What the poster probably is not aware of - but I thought it was common
knowledge that a lot of Bird's recorded music was done by visionary people
sitting in the audience with portable recording devices - even little tape
players. Some of the stuff was taken off the radio even. Bird was very
under-recorded, through much fault of his own. Anyway, that's my .02.
B/C
(ohhh! April In Paris.....!! sing it Charlie!!)
Bop Cop
>In <3kkc5p$q...@tabloid.amoco.com> af145!zimd0b (Bop Cop) writes:
>
>> blah..blah.."Large segment of population" sounds suspiciously like
>> "masses" to me, and you know what they say about
>> the "masses"...blah..blah..
>
>So, if a LOT of us read your post, and like it, it isn't as good as if
>just a few read it? If MILLIONS of us read it, it suddenly becomes bad
You mean "just a few _like_ it." Stay with your point.
>because it may be, gasp, POPULAR!!!.
>
>The conclusion is: if very few of us read it, it's REALLY GOOD!
I'll never have to worry about large segments of the population liking what I
write. And when I put out my CD, ... you watch, VERY FEW people will buy it!
Probably just family and friends. From that I'll realize that I'm a
misunderstood genius.
Bop
Steve Robinson
On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Bop Cop wrote:
> I would just like to add; the comment about Parker's _absolutely_horrible_
> tone was sad. What's even sadder is the relative implicit consent that the
> silence among the newsgroup shows. But I think the whole thing with the
> differing in jazz understanding is really generational in nature. It's sad,
> but it could be worse. I'm glad I was too young to see what was going on in
> the '60s!
>
> Idris
Apparently, I missed this part of the thread. Could you please re-post
the comment you didn't like? If it's sufficiently negative about Bird, I
would be happy to provide you with a little righteous indignation. I
just didn't see it before!
Steve Robinson
Seattle, WA
stev...@u.washington.edu
John Williams
>
>I'll never have to worry about large segments of the population liking
what I
>write. And when I put out my CD, ... you watch, VERY FEW people will
buy it!
>Probably just family and friends. From that I'll realize that I'm a
>misunderstood genius.
>
>Bop
>
>
So, let's get this straight: if it sells, it turns bad right? :)
Jeff Volkman
I personally don't care for the stuff Kenny's been doing since he dropped
the "orelick" off the end of his name, but 10 or 15 years ago he was
playing in some good R&B/funk bands (I realize some might consider that an
oxymoron; I'm addressing the other half of the crowd) in the Seattle area,
and IMO sounding really good. He was playing mostly tenor, just pulling
out the soprano for the occassional sappy ballad. Some of the guys in his
current band, like Vail Johnson and Bruce Carter, were also regulars in
the northwest scene a few years back. None of these guys were, or are,
jazz players. Not even close. They are, however, all very good players in
that funk/R&B bag. But I remember that even though those guys were all
playing much funkier music back then, it was always those sappy ballads
that got the strongest audience reaction, and you have to remember that
mister Gorelick majored in business, not music.
--Jeff
ron santen/sarah livingstone
>
>Number 1: Kenny G actually makes a soprano sax sound good. No mean feat.
> So good that he's sold lots (millions?) of records. Ergo, the cat is a
>musician.
>
>Number 3: Kenny G has more technique than any pre-Bird sax player. Sorry
>folks. From what I've heard of his tenor work, he plays the modern funk
>idiom. Hey, that's jazz.
>
>NO - John Coltrane and Sidney Bechet made a soprano sax sound good
- Kenny G. makes it sound "acceptable" to muzak lovers.
Well- its nice to know that John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins and even Stan Getz
are inferior to Kenny G - technique-wise.
I still say his main technical ability is to be able to smile while playing -
'Trane couldn't do that - but Liberace could.
Robert Gwynne
>
> I'll answer that in two words: Coleman Hawkins.
Kenny Gorelick >= Kraft Processed Velveeta Cheese.
Bob Gwynne
Jeff Beer
and Johnny Hodges, Ben Webster, Harry Carney, Don Byas...
Jeff
Jeff Volkman
I'd like to state, for the record, that I sometimes find Bird's tone a
little "nasal" and irritating. I'm willing to accept the consequences for
holding this opinion. I've also heard a nasty rumor that Bird was
actaully a mortal. The fact that he's dead would tend to support this rumor.
--Jeff
Bop Cop
and the President.
B/C
TornCot
At first I was tempted to log on an enormous list, but Lyudmila's comment
is so foolish it's really not worth commenting on. I'll just state that
Kenny himself has stated that he doesn't believe he's a good enough player
to handle first saxophone duties in a big band.
Dave Krugman
Tom Brown
>Number 1: Kenny G actually makes a soprano sax sound good. No mean feat.
Eh. Judgment call.
>Number 3: Kenny G has more technique than any pre-Bird sax player.
Outrageous lie. Either you don't play jazz, or you haven't heard
much good jazz from the pre-Bird era. You might go back and listen
to Coleman Hawkins, Jimmy Dorsey, Willie Smith, Benny Carter, just
for starters.
MediaSeven
Nobody's saying that Kenny's a jazz master. What's being said is
that the guy's doing his own thing. Period. If you don't like it,
that's your opinion. Personally, I don't like it either. But that
doesn't mean it isn't jazz, and that doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.
He has a right to release it, and until the entire world decides
otherwise, the world has decided to call it jazz. LIVE WITH IT, AND SUCK
IT IN...
There's the problem right there. Many restaurant meals have been ruined
for me because Mr. Gorelick was warbling in the background. You're forced
to suck in that kind of elevator pap these days. But to call it "jazz" and
compare it to Charlie Parker and Coltrane, what kind of "tea" have you
been smoking?
John Motavalli
GHaberman
Only the people who don't have a clue as to what jazz is all about.
Kenny G. is someone who found a niche in a commercial market and is making
a fortune doing what he is doing.
Good for him.
But.........
What he is doing isn't close to what jazz is all about.
Gary Haberman
SYlvisaker
No, it is not what JAZZ is all about, but it is JAZZ. Give credit where
it's due. No, it's not what the educated JAZZ fan wants to hear, but it is
serving to educate "the unwashed masses" about the possibilites of what
JAZZ is all about. Through Kenny G, more people are coming around to
listening to and appreciating JAZZ. I like Kenny in small doses (because
he's too sugary, sappy, saccharine, etc), whereas I take Getz and Mulligan
in large doses. I see Kenny G as serving to keep JAZZ alive by building
the listener/buyer base for JAZZ recordings in the wider world of JAZZ.
I welcome comments from you or any others.
Stephen
Culbert B. Laney
Oh great guru, tell us: what IS jazz all about? Obviously you
|> have reached some higher understanding or conclusion on which the rest of
|> this list is still trying to decide. I DID NOT CALL KENNY G A JAZZ MUSICIAN.
|> But the average joe on the street does. End of point.
I think the point is that "the average joe on the street" knows jazz *mainly*
in terms of Kenny G and his ilk. In many other musical genres the general
public has a broader range of exposure. If we accept Kenny G as jazz,
we must also accept Paula Abdul, George Micheal, Micheal Bolton, and so
forth as rock. While most rock fans would have to grudgingly accept this
as some form of rock, they would sure hate it if this were the *only*
type of rock known to the general population. By the same token, most
classical fans would get pretty upset if the general public knew *only*
Liberace.
If jazz is to become more widely accepted, it must somehow broaden its wimpy
Kenny G. public image. Most people out there have no idea of the wide
variety of jazz available. At the very best, they've heard some of the
Marsalis stuff. While most everyone has heard of certain greats suchs as
Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Dizzie Gillespie, and so on,
very few have actually seriously listened to any of the classic works of
these artists. And where would they hear them? Even the few public radio
stations devoted to jazz mainly play contemporary artists, and very often
only best-selling contemporary artists not that much better than
Kenny G. The audience for this music is, quite simply, different than the
audience for classic jazz; in fact, its a lot closer to the Micheal Bolton
crowd.
I am relatively young (29) and if I had to rely on the mass media, including
public radio, I would never have become a jazz fan. I became a jazz fan by
studying the Rolling Stone Jazz Record guide (the only thing available at
the time) and buying albums. My first few purchases included "Monk's Dream"
on Columbia, Brubeck's "Take Five," and Dolphy's "Out to Lunch." These were
good enough that I kept on buying. However, most people would never think
to take my studied approach. There are a few college courses which introduce
jazz, but how are people supposed to even know to take such a course if
they only know Kenny G.?
We can argue forever about whether or not Kenny G is real jazz. There will
never be any agreement, because it comes down to a matter of personal
definition. However, I think the real driving force behind these arguements is
frustration. I'm frustrated that so few have been exposed to the best classic
jazz. I'm frustrated that, whenever I say I'm a jazz fan, most people assume
I must like Kenny G or bad fusion some other pop thing I've never even heard of.
I'm frustrated when people tell me that George Clinton or someone else not
even remotely jazzy is jazz. If the choice is "Kenny G is the *only* jazz"
or "Kenny G is not jazz" I think most jazz fans would leap on the second choice.
Just my opinion.
Bop Cop
>>> What he is doing isn't close to what jazz is all about.
>
>No, it is not what JAZZ is all about, but it is JAZZ. Give credit where
>it's due.
I'm with Kenny. Kenny says it's not jazz, so I'm afraid you'll have to take
it up with him.
>No, it's not what the educated JAZZ fan wants to hear, but it is
>serving to educate "the unwashed masses" about the possibilites of what
>JAZZ is all about. Through Kenny G, more people are coming around to
>listening to and appreciating JAZZ. I like Kenny in small doses (because
Not true. The people listening to Kenny are the ones who listened to the
"Kenny's" before Kenny G. (Individuals and groups, ie. Spyro Gyro,et al) But
these "unwashed masses" (I really like that phrase) never get beyond that level
into real jazz. I've talked to many, many people over many years about jazz
and I found that the rule of thumb is, they probably have heard the _name_
Coletrane and Miles, but they've never even heard the name Parker, have no
idea what "Bird" means, and will never get to Blakey, Brownie, or Dex.
Therefore it is a myth that sugar-music takes people into jazz as a general
rule. Sugar-music only takes the "unwashed masses" on to their next Pied
Piper. (sp?)
>he's too sugary, sappy, saccharine, etc), whereas I take Getz and Mulligan
>in large doses.
>I see Kenny G as serving to keep JAZZ alive by building
No. The Creator keeps jazz alive by instilling in humans a higher appreciation
for artistic excellence of all forms, and a longing for fulfullment of the soul
through the senses, among other things. The "unwashed masses" just haven't
developed this characteristic for whatever reason.
>the listener/buyer base for JAZZ recordings in the wider world of JAZZ.
>I welcome comments from you or any others. > >Stephen >
Bop Cop
/B{>
>
> Nobody's saying that Kenny's a jazz master. What's being said is
> that the guy's doing his own thing. Period. If you don't like it,
> that's your opinion. Personally, I don't like it either. But that
> doesn't mean it isn't jazz, and that doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.
> He has a right to release it, and until the entire world decides
> otherwise, the world has decided to call it jazz. LIVE WITH IT, AND SUCK
> IT IN...
Please learn to comment. Blissfully, I recognized my own post.
> =======================================================
> There's the problem right there. Many restaurant meals have been ruined
> for me because Mr. Gorelick was warbling in the background. You're forced
> to suck in that kind of elevator pap these days.
If you don't like the music in a restaurant, mention it to the
management, don't bitch at us. They have a right to choose whatever they
like, and though you might not like it, I doubt if the arguement that
it's not jazz is going to make a heck of a lot of difference in their
decision to play it. Personally, I don't get that much of a kick out of
Fausto Pappetti, but it seems to be a restaurant-and-elevator tradition.
Heaven forbid ANYONE should mess with tradition...
> But to call it "jazz" and
> compare it to Charlie Parker and Coltrane, what kind of "tea" have you
> been smoking?
>
As you might have noticed, I have never compared Kenny G to
either of the above gentlemen. I don't even compare Kenny G to Grover,
as in my opinion, Grover was (and is) a far more talented musician.
However, the point remains that the world, independent of the miniscule
core of jazz purists who think they have the right to write the book on
jazz (and apparently any other style of music) history, have decided that
Kenny's music be sold as jazz. Your distaste with this or inability to
digest while it's being played isn't going to change the fact that Sam's
puts it in the "jazz and blues" section.
As to "smoking tea", I don't even need to respond. Personal
attacks are generally ignored and looked down upon on this list. If you
intend to stay here, straighten out your act and learn how to behave.
> John Motavalli
>
>
Greg Marks
/B{>
"Drug free, and glad to be..."
/B{>
Oh great guru, tell us: what IS jazz all about? Obviously you
have reached some higher understanding or conclusion on which the rest of
this list is still trying to decide. I DID NOT CALL KENNY G A JAZZ MUSICIAN.
But the average joe on the street does. End of point. If you can succeed in
convincing the average joe that Kenny G is not jazz, then you have the
right to pass judgement. I think the debate is moot. If you don't like
it, don't buy it, and maybe the world will get the picture and it will go
away. Complaining to a bunch of people who for the most part don't like
Kenny's music either (or just envy his success) isn't getting you anywhere.
Talk to the record stores and the record company executives, and get THEM
to declare Kenny G pop or new age, and the world MAY follow. Until then,
you have no right to say what is or isn't jazz beyond the accepted views
held by the world of music at large. As has been stated ad nauseam, even
Kenny doesn't consider his music jazz. His fans do. Don't talk to me,
talk to them.
Greg Marks
/B{>
P.S. can we PLEASE talk about something that everyone hasn't already
decided on months past?
Lyudmila
prefer) Festival of some sort in St. Petersburg, Fla, a couple of years
ago, and both Richard Elliot and Branford Marsalis appeared!! Michael
Brecker was in town the same month!!! Who says St. Pete is passe?
Anyhow, there was a radio promo for the event, and the announcer was
talking over some swirling sax licks, I recognized, or sort of recognized,
Branford. As the add wraps up the sax builds, and there is a great line
paraphrased from 'A Man Loves A Woman'. Wow, I think, Branford was really
cooking there! I was disappointed, really, when I found out the line is
from R. Elliots version of the very tune. I caught Elliot at a later gig,
and he plays a lot of funky tenor. And, while I confess I don't have any
KG discs, I've heard him on TV playing tenor while he walks the audience,
and folks, it was jazz, pure and simple. Maybe politically or
ideologically it's not jazz, but, if it walks like a duck, etc., etc....
Bop Cop
>
>> The world has not decided to call Kenny G. jazz.
>> Only the people who don't have a clue as to what jazz is all about.
>> Kenny G. is someone who found a niche in a commercial market and is making
>> a fortune doing what he is doing.
>> Good for him.
>> But.........
>> What he is doing isn't close to what jazz is all about.
>>
>> Gary Haberman
>>
> Oh great guru, tell us: what IS jazz all about? Obviously you
>have reached some higher understanding or conclusion on which the rest of
>this list is still trying to decide.
Um... speak for yourself... not the rest of this list.
>I DID NOT CALL KENNY G A JAZZ MUSICIAN.
>But the average joe on the street does. End of point.
I wish it was.
>If you can succeed in
>convincing the average joe that Kenny G is not jazz, then you have the
>right to pass judgement. I think the debate is moot.
I wish it was.
>If you don't like
>it, don't buy it, and maybe the world will get the picture and it will go
>away.
I wish it would.
>Complaining to a bunch of people who for the most part don't like
>Kenny's music either (or just envy his success) isn't getting you anywhere.
>Talk to the record stores and the record company executives, and get THEM
>to declare Kenny G pop or new age, and the world MAY follow. Until then,
>you have no right to say what is or isn't jazz beyond the accepted views
>held by the world of music at large. As has been stated ad nauseam, even
>Kenny doesn't consider his music jazz. His fans do. Don't talk to me,
Ok.
>talk to them.
> Greg Marks
> /B{>
>P.S. can we PLEASE talk about something that everyone hasn't already
> decided on months past?
Subject: Re: How to reduce the federal deficit and balance the budget without
increasing taxes or touching social security.
Bop Cop
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Surprising as it might be to you, I really don't appreciate or
>enjoy this kind of banter. The idea of debating is to present your
>point of view to an audience in an attempt to convince them that said
>p.o.v. is more enlightened than that of your opponent. I shall in this
>situation be the first to admit that on occasion my responses have been
>less than tactful, but they seldom slip to the unprofessional depths of
>responding in a "tit-for-tat" manner just because someone I don't get
>along with is the originator of a given post. Nothing can be gained from
>the "did not-did too" mentality to which we have degraded ourselves with
>this past posting. I have a right to respond to any article with which I
>take exception, or to any debate in which I hold an opinion, supporting
>or otherwise, but only if said response is made with at least some
>semblence of an intellectual retort. I appreciate serious debate with
>regards to my postings in the form of a reasonable and well-spoken
>article, and will welcome anyone who cares to refute or support any point
>I make. I assume that you, as an obviously intelligent individual, would
>appreciate the same. Please be reminded, I bear you no malice; I just
>don't tend to agree with you on many of your views. I still shall defend
>your rights to make said views known, provided you are willing to take the
>time necessary to state them in an adult fashion. At the very least,
>let's agree to respect each other's viewpoints, as I respect and allow
>for yours...
I'm sorry, it's just hard for me to remain serious or professional when we're
discussing Kenny G or Sanborn. I wasn't debating, I was just taking pot-shots.
I couldn't muster up the energy to debate about this if I wanted to. As it is,
I could barely speed-read through all you wrote. So since you're serious, I'll
quit taking pot-shots, even though it's going to diminish my role as Bop Cop,
which every jazz forum should have! Anyway, peace!
Modern Jazz Peace Officer.
/B{>
On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Bop Cop wrote:
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.950327103039.3937A-100000@jupiter>, "/B{>"
<n2...@unb.ca> writes:
> >
> >On 25 Mar 1995, GHaberman wrote:
> >
> >> The world has not decided to call Kenny G. jazz.
> >> Only the people who don't have a clue as to what jazz is all about.
> >> Kenny G. is someone who found a niche in a commercial market and is making
> >> a fortune doing what he is doing.
> >> Good for him.
> >> But.........
> >> What he is doing isn't close to what jazz is all about.
> >>
> >> Gary Haberman
> >>
> > Oh great guru, tell us: what IS jazz all about? Obviously you
> >have reached some higher understanding or conclusion on which the rest of
> >this list is still trying to decide.
>
> Um... speak for yourself... not the rest of this list.
Um, pardon me, but how do you define "decide"? You are a member
of this list. I am a member of this list. We hold different opinions.
Hence we can not WHOLLY have reached a consensus, and thus as a list,
are STILL trying to decided upon a definitive conclusion as to what jazz
is all about. There remain various opinions on this topic, and I am
sure there are as many people who agree with me as disagree. I am
also sure that if the gentleman to whom I was responding had held an opinion
which differed from your own, you would not have been so quick to say that a
consensus had been reached on this topic. Perhaps you have decided, but
as a whole, we have not. And perhaps never shall...
>
> >I DID NOT CALL KENNY G A JAZZ MUSICIAN.
> >But the average joe on the street does. End of point.
> I wish it was.
>
> >If you can succeed in
> >convincing the average joe that Kenny G is not jazz, then you have the
> >right to pass judgement. I think the debate is moot.
> I wish it was.
>
> >If you don't like
> >it, don't buy it, and maybe the world will get the picture and it will go
> >away.
> I wish it would.
I am humbled by the strength and variety of your debating skills.
>
> >Complaining to a bunch of people who for the most part don't like
> >Kenny's music either (or just envy his success) isn't getting you anywhere.
> >Talk to the record stores and the record company executives, and get THEM
> >to declare Kenny G pop or new age, and the world MAY follow. Until then,
> >you have no right to say what is or isn't jazz beyond the accepted views
> >held by the world of music at large. As has been stated ad nauseam, even
> >Kenny doesn't consider his music jazz. His fans do. Don't talk to me,
>
> Ok.
>
Four in a row; wow...
> >talk to them.
> > Greg Marks
> > /B{>
> >P.S. can we PLEASE talk about something that everyone hasn't already
> > decided on months past?
>
> Subject: Re: How to reduce the federal deficit and balance the budget without
> increasing taxes or touching social security.
>
Now there's a topic! Perhaps another day, on another list (?)...
/B{>
> I'm sorry, it's just hard for me to remain serious or professional when we're
> discussing Kenny G or Sanborn. I wasn't debating, I was just taking pot-shots.
> I couldn't muster up the energy to debate about this if I wanted to. As it is,
> I could barely speed-read through all you wrote. So since you're serious, I'll
> quit taking pot-shots, even though it's going to diminish my role as Bop Cop,
> which every jazz forum should have! Anyway, peace!
>
> Modern Jazz Peace Officer.
>
Hey, man, don't apologize for having a sense of humour! I've
seen far too many "Bop Cops" who didn't. I just figure that there is an
actual issue here (that I agree we've flogged almost to death and still
never resolved) and that perhaps someone might have another angle they'd
like to voice. Mostly I wanted the gentleman to whom I was responding
to give some reason for his statements beyond a general dislike for the
music in question (which apparently a lot of people here share). Heck, I
take my fair share of pot-shots at KG and ilk myself, but I still think
that saying it isn't jazz or at least jazz-oriented simply because it's
commercially accepted or because the poster doesn't like it is a bit rash.
I'm open to debate, and yes, even the occasional pot-shot. Let's just
keep in mind that it IS a jazz/blues forum, not a fist-fight :)
Keep walkin' the beat...
Greg Marks
/B{>
Jeff Volkman
On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Bop Cop wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, it's just hard for me to remain serious or professional when we're
> discussing Kenny G or Sanborn. I wasn't debating, I was just taking pot-shots.
> I couldn't muster up the energy to debate about this if I wanted to. As it is,
> I could barely speed-read through all you wrote. So since you're serious, I'll
> quit taking pot-shots, even though it's going to diminish my role as Bop Cop,
> which every jazz forum should have! Anyway, peace!
>
> Modern Jazz Peace Officer.
>
I wish I could change names so easily. I think I'd be "Anti-Tesh" or
"Yanni Not" or maybe "Clave Cop." Dream on Jeff.
--Jeff
David G. Booth
>
> I'd like to state, for the record, that I sometimes find Bird's tone a
> little "nasal" and irritating.
I agree, the first time I heard Parker I thought it was like
Chinese or something....
By the way, me being a Sanborn supporter, I am embarassed to see
his name in the same heading with Kenny G. Sanborn's stuff at least
has some guts and integrity - his playing is truthful - whether you
like his tone or not (I do). When I hear truth is someone's playing,
I like it, regardless of the style.
Jeff Volkman
On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, /B{> wrote:
> Hey, man, don't apologize for having a sense of humour! I've
> seen far too many "Bop Cops" who didn't. I just figure that there is an
> actual issue here (that I agree we've flogged almost to death and still
> never resolved) and that perhaps someone might have another angle they'd
> like to voice. Mostly I wanted the gentleman to whom I was responding
> to give some reason for his statements beyond a general dislike for the
> music in question (which apparently a lot of people here share). Heck, I
> take my fair share of pot-shots at KG and ilk myself, but I still think
> that saying it isn't jazz or at least jazz-oriented simply because it's
> commercially accepted or because the poster doesn't like it is a bit rash.
> I'm open to debate, and yes, even the occasional pot-shot. Let's just
> keep in mind that it IS a jazz/blues forum, not a fist-fight :)
> Keep walkin' the beat...
>
> Greg Marks
> /B{>
Well, even if it is a fist fight, at least it's a friggin' jazz fist
fight, and not some damned rock or new age or R&B fist fight. That would
really suck.
--Jeff
D.J. Toman
>
>
> Well, even if it is a fist fight, at least it's a friggin' jazz fist
> fight, and not some damned rock or new age or R&B fist fight. That would
> really suck.
>
> --Jeff
Just imagine a new age fist fight, everyone flogging each other with
their crystals and strangling one another with their ponchos (college
students) and ties (ex-college students).
David
Taipei, Taiwan
Ilha Formosa
TornCot
Discussing Kenny G's relevance as a jazz artist is akin to debating
holocaust deniers. (Don't get me wrong, I don't regard bad jazz and
genocide as being of the same magnitude. In debating Kenny G's jazz
ability we are already giving him credit he does not deserve, we are
admitting that it is possible that he is a creative improvisatory
musician. He is not, so there is nothing debate. If people think that all
instrumental saxophone music is jazz, let them continue in their ignorance
but I won't waste time on them. As for holocaust deniers I have lost the
relatives and seen the tattoos I don't debate one whose argument clearly
has no factual basis.
Dave Krugman
Jeff Volkman
Dave has spoken. Nuff said.
--Jeff
Jeff Volkman
Yes, Birkenstocks being flung recklessly, granola getting in people's
eyes. And then there's the incense burns. Very ugly.
--Jeff
coconutg
BANG was fun) but I do get the feeling that Sandborn really loves his
music and Kenny G is trying to milk every last cent he can out of his
success.
No, there's nothing wrong with that but there's nothing appealing to me
about it either.
David Kriegsman
.............I thought this was a JAZZ NEWSGROUP!!!!!!! Since when should
fuzak kings like kenny gee :( even merit mention?? I don't get it.
Suz.
--
"Paradise is exactly like where you are right now...
only much... much... better" --Laurie Anderson
Jeff Volkman
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, David Kriegsman wrote:
>
> .............I thought this was a JAZZ NEWSGROUP!!!!!!! Since when should
> fuzak kings like kenny gee :( even merit mention?? I don't get it.
>
> Suz.
I could explain it to you, but your head might explode, so I won't. Good
luck.
--Jeff
TornCot
people would take my comparison
Dave
DRDAVEOL
contemptuous phrase "can't you get any more notes out of that horn"
However if people's first experience is liking Kenny G and they go into
the Jazz section of the store for the first time, it may be the begining
of a new jazz fan who will expand into the more challenging artists.
Suzi
wrote:
...or...the beginning of the end...and the death of the ears...:(
--
"Which is it, is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's?"
Friedrich Nietzsche
"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal."
Leo Tolstoy
RLNunn1
seen this discussion many times on this newsgroup, and the conclusion
always seems to be the same; Kenny G is not jazz (which I agree with).
However, I also must subscribe to what was said earlier about David
Sanborn; he is a great player. I must admit that I'm not a real fan of
his tone, but as anyone would admit that has heard him REALLY play, he's
got chops (Check out his solo on Bob Berg's album 'Short Stories',
Kalimba).
Something else I might add to those 'jazz purists' out there (of
which I must admit that I'm one of), modern jazz is here to stay. If you
play, you'd better learn to like and play it, or you won't get called back
next time. Hope I didn't ramble too much.
-Ralph Nunn
David Reider
collaborations with Tim Berne and the Hemphill disc prove his soul's in
the right place. At least he's not harmonizing Ornette tunes like
Branford.
Jeff Volkman
Never too much ramblin', Ralph.
--Jeff
Bop Cop
Hey Greg, Bop Cop tried to retire, but as you can see, all is not well in
Gotham City...
> Something else I might add to those 'jazz purists' out there (of
>which I must admit that I'm one of), modern jazz is here to stay. If you
Just to clarify, Modern Jazz is the name already _reserved_ for the tradition
laid down in 1940 or so, by the beboppers. I'm assuming that you're referring
to "Modern Day" jazz, or contemporary jazz. Correct me if I err.
>play, you'd better learn to like and play it, or you won't get called back
>next time. Hope I didn't ramble too much.
>-Ralph Nunn
No you did fine. But "called back" where? I think theres an ever growing
market for *real* Modern Jazz, although admittedly not as big as the market for
contempo-jazz. But if you play, you don't have to like it or _ever_ play it.
And if you're in the right spot in the first place, you'll be called back.
Bop Cop
rh...@delphi.com
saxaphone. I yell at people who associate him with jazz when I tell them that I
play in a Jazz BAnd.
Charles George
>The world has not decided to call Kenny G. jazz.
>Only the people who don't have a clue as to what jazz is all about.
got my first Miles Davis, Charlie Parker records at a Goodwill store for 80
cents.
You think that only those who like Kenny G. don't know Jazz, your wrong.
>What he is doing isn't close to what jazz is all about.
Before The Night is Over, has very good singing by Peabo Bryson.
The song is song in the style of many Jazz artists popular in the 50s and
currently. The cadences of Kenny G. also follow the progressions found in many
Jazz compositions.
Charles George
Charles George
>JAZZ is all about. Through Kenny G, more people are coming around to
>listening to and appreciating JAZZ. I like Kenny in small doses (because
>he's too sugary, sappy, saccharine, etc), whereas I take Getz and Mulligan
>in large doses. I see Kenny G as serving to keep JAZZ alive by building
I find the music of Kenny G. is very helpful when I am with my girlfriend,
since she grew up with Jazz but does not like it as much as other forms of
music which are more popular.
I find though she likes romantic type music, so it keeps her listening, and
also lets me get in a few songs for her myself on my guitar or bass guitar.
Kenny G. is good at building bridges.
/B{>
> In article <hG6-Tsk.c...@delphi.com>, Charles George <charl...@delphi.com> says:
>
> SYlvisaker <sylvi...@aol.com> writes:
>
> I like Kenny in small doses (because
> he's too sugary, sappy, saccharine, etc), whereas I take Getz and Mulligan
> in large doses. I see Kenny G as serving to keep JAZZ alive by building
>
> I find the music of Kenny G. is very helpful when I am with my girlfriend,
> since she grew up with Jazz but does not like it as much as other forms of
> music which are more popular.
> ************************************************************************
> IS THERE ANY RELATIONSHI THAT YOU KNOW OF BETWEEN KG & MSG??
> BOTH MAKE MY SKIN CRAWL!
>
> John Levine
> jle...@direct.ca
>
We heard you twice the first time, John. Please don't yell so
loud, it's making my monitor shake... :)
Greg Marks
/B{>
Robert Schuh
writes:
>
>.
>>In article <pu5fij...@delphi.com>, rh...@delphi.com says:
>>
>.
>>IS THERE ANY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN KG & MSG??? BOTH MAKE MY SKIN
CRAWL!
>>John Levine
>
>Yes - Kenny's father was Murray Saunders Glutimate ( Hence Kenny's
name
>is Kenny Glutimate) - it is reputed that his father - MSG - played
such
>boring music that people who listened to it for long periods, or
>consumed too much of it, became dried out and developed an enormous
>thirst. But he also had the skill to make music that may have been
>natural and beautiful sound artificial, but very sweet and it could be
>absorbed without much effort - the problem was that in so doing it
>lost all its natural flavour.
>
>Hence the makers of the chemical additive named it after Kenny's dad!
>
>I heard this story from a blues guru at an ashram in New Orleans - but
>I believe every word of it.
>
>Ron Santen
> -
I have heard that you can possibly get AIDS from listening to Kenny G.
It is almost a sure thing to get AIDS if you listen to Kenny G and Yani
back to back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rschuh.ix.netcom.com
Jeff Miller
>I have heard that you can possibly get AIDS from listening to Kenny G.
>It is almost a sure thing to get AIDS if you listen to Kenny G and Yani
>back to back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>rschuh.ix.netcom.com
It's post like the above that make me wish my newsreader had kill file
capabilities.
Can we kill this thread already???
--
/\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/\
/\/\ Jeff Miller and/or Suzi Nakea /\/\
\/\/ mil...@seanet.com \/\/
\/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\/
James A. Work
Sanborn were posted on rec.music.saccharine
--
--
James A. Work -- A major skew. jim...@netcom.com
Joao Costa
Is it just me or is Kenny G. the most-often-mentioned name on
rec.music.bluenote?
Robert Schuh
writes:
>The fact that you wish postings could be edited for your narrow and
fucked point of view is offensive, illegal and facist!! I fyou are a
Kenny G fan what the fuck are you doing in the jazz folder? get a sense
of humor you fuck!!
John Sullivan
Santen/Livingstone
JSUL...@fhcrc.org says...
>
>I just wanted to make sure this thread didn't miss a day.
I was worried about that too - the chance for a little bit of sarcasm
and superior snobbery is not to be missed if we canhelp it.
Ron Santen
jacob...@msdisk.wustl.edu
>I just wanted to make sure this thread didn't miss a day.
Thanks.
Bop Cop
That was a good one! It should certainly become an rmb tradition!
Although after listening the Washington Post thing with Kenny G samples, I'd
have to now say this: let's not put _even_ David Sanborn in KG's category. It
really wouldn't be fair to Dave. I really think Kenny is without peer.
Bop Cop
Robert Schuh
>
>and superior snobbery is not to be missed if we canhelp it.
>
>Ron Santen
>
biggest weenie. Kenny G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
William Shaw
: >>I just wanted to make sure this thread didn't miss a day.
: >
: I agree. It would be shame not to say something negative about the
: biggest weenie. Kenny G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Favorite Kenny G. Quote of All Time (to Jay Leno)]
"I just love Charlie Parker! He could play *all those notes*!"
Thomas F Brown
>
> [Favorite Kenny G. Quote of All Time (to Jay Leno)]
>
> "I just love Charlie Parker! He could play *all those notes*!"
Good for G. He just sold some bird albums.