Mingus's Strollin' and Nostalgia in Time Square
Steven P. Donaldson
I have become a devoted fan of the late Charles Mingus. I was
wondering if anyone knows if his compositions "Nostalgia In Times
Square" from the album Mingus In Wonderland, and "Strollin'" from
Charles Mingus And Friends In Concert are the same tune? If so, why the
name change? I realize some of his compositions have two different
names like "E's Flat, Ah's Flat Too" is also known as "Hora Decubitus".
Anyway I'm curious. Any input would be much appreciated.
Also, I am finding that I have most of the Mingus albums now. Does
anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
similar style?
Steven P. Donaldson
I appretiate the history you provided on Nostalgia in Time Square and
Strollin'. The first time I heard Strollin' it drove me nuts because I
knew that I had heard the tune before - but without the lyrics. The
fact the name was different took me a little time to deduce that the
song was also Nostalgia in Time Square. Thanks.
H. Loess
"Steven P. Donaldson" <spdo...@mail.mother.com> wrote:
> I have become a devoted fan of the late Charles Mingus. I was
>wondering if anyone knows if his compositions "Nostalgia In Times
>Square" from the album Mingus In Wonderland, and "Strollin'" from
>Charles Mingus And Friends In Concert are the same tune? If so, why the
>name change? I realize some of his compositions have two different
>names like "E's Flat, Ah's Flat Too" is also known as "Hora Decubitus".
>Anyway I'm curious. Any input would be much appreciated.
Strollin' (following the verse) is indeed "Nostalgia In Times Square". As I
understand it, "Nostalgia" is the tune as originally composed by Mingus; the
vocal versions take the title "Strollin'" from the lyric later added by
vocalist Honey Gordon's father George (also known as Nat Gordon). The two
Gordons, along with Honey's two brothers, first recorded with Mingus in 1953
for his Debut label (when Honey was 15); she first recorded "Strollin'" at
the "Mingus Dynasty" sessions in late '59, although this version was not
released until almost 20 years later, shortly after Mingus' death.
--
Henry L.
hlo...@pipeline.com
Marc Sabatella
>Also, I am finding that I have most of the Mingus albums now. Does
>anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
>similar style?
"Similar", I don't know. But depending on what in particular you find
most appealing about Mingus, there are definitely some who seem to have
related approaches, or at least related effects on me. One is Muhal
Richard Abrams, but not all the time - see "Blu Blu Blu" for a good
example of one that is in some ways reminiscent of the more
"serious" aspect of Mingus. Also, much of what I have from the
Either/Orchestra reminds me of the "fun" aspect, as does, for that
matter, Sun Ra or John Zorn / Naked City, even if the actual music
doesn't really sound much the same (particularly in the case of Zorn!).
What little I have heard of Django Bates also seems to come from
a similar perspective.
But note that none of these may *sound* much like Mingus; they just seem
similar in some ways to me. Your mileage may vary.
--
Marc Sabatella
--
ma...@outsideshore.com
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Henry Robinett
"Steven P. Donaldson" <spdo...@mail.mother.com> wrote:
> I have become a devoted fan of the late Charles Mingus. I was
>wondering if anyone knows if his compositions "Nostalgia In Times
>Square" from the album Mingus In Wonderland, and "Strollin'" from
>Charles Mingus And Friends In Concert are the same tune? If so, why the
>name change? I realize some of his compositions have two different
>names like "E's Flat, Ah's Flat Too" is also known as "Hora Decubitus".
>Anyway I'm curious. Any input would be much appreciated.
>
>anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
>similar style?
>
He often changed his titles to fool record company executives in to
believing these were new tunes. But I'm sure in the case of Strollin'
it may have been because Mingus considered the vocal version to be a
different song, in that it now had another person on the copyright;
the lyricist.
Henry Robinett
Brian Olewnick
>
>Also, I am finding that I have most of the Mingus albums now. Does
>anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
>similar style?
>
Steve,
Back towards the late 70's, I was becoming impatient waiting for folks
to come along who would expand on Mingus' mid-size group work of the
late 50's and early 60's. Lo and behold, we soon had Threadgill's
Sextett, Murray's Octet and Olu Dara's Okra Orchestra. I don't believe
the latter left a recorded legacy, but I think you'd enjoy Henry and
David's work. I'd also second Marc Sabatella's picks cited above.
Cheers,
Brian O.
estes stephen
Marc Sabatella wrote:
>
> In article <333ECC...@mail.mother.com>, spdo...@mail.mother.com wrote:
>
> >Also, I am finding that I have most of the Mingus albums now. Does
> >anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
> >similar style?
>
> most appealing about Mingus, there are definitely some who seem to have
> related approaches,
I would suggest The Vienna Art Orchestra A Notion in Perpetual Motion.
Don't let the name put you off . I think they even cover a MIngus tune
on this one.x
Charles Day
Personally, trying to characterise Mingus's music, I think mainly of
the collective improvisation, the compositional structures, and the
blues/folk tradition.
This is probably my ignorance, but the only person I can think of who
combines these elements in similar way is John Carter on, e.g. Castles Of
Ghana.
Interestingly - and I suppose this is the uniqueness of Mingus - you
have to go quite far back from his time to get the same emphasis on
collective improvisation or quite far forward.
Charles
Steve Cox
Steven P. Donaldson wrote:
>
>
> Also, I am finding that I have most of the Mingus albums now. Does
> anyone have any recomendations as to another jazz composer with a
> similar style?
Wow. Similar to Mingus? I don't think there's anyone. He was one of the most
important jazz composers. I would go right to Duke Ellington, one of Mingus' idols
and probably THE single most important jazz composer. That should keep you busy
for a while.
Steve C.
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <charles.day-02...@cday.gsfc.nasa.gov> charl...@gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Day) writes:
>Personally, trying to characterise Mingus's music, I think mainly of
>the collective improvisation, the compositional structures, and the
>blues/folk tradition.
>
>have to go quite far back from his time to get the same emphasis on
>collective improvisation or quite far forward.
Tristano and Brubeck were both working with collective improvisation
and formal experiments in the 40s and 50s, not so far back at all.
Older musicians had never stopped working with collective improvisation.
Compositional approaches to form were a major interest of late swing era
arrangers. And the blues/folk tradition was a central focus of the hard
bop guys.
Mingus was certainly a genius in putting it all together, but it's not
like he was working in a void, or that he was doing anything all that
original. He was just doing it better than most others.
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5ihade$c...@news.jhu.edu> tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu () writes:
>In article <charles.day-02...@cday.gsfc.nasa.gov> charl...@gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Day) writes:
>>Personally, trying to characterise Mingus's music, I think mainly of
>>the collective improvisation, the compositional structures, and the
>>blues/folk tradition.
>>
>>Interestingly - and I suppose this is the uniqueness of Mingus - you
>>have to go quite far back from his time to get the same emphasis on
>>collective improvisation or quite far forward.
>
>Tristano and Brubeck were both working with collective improvisation
>and formal experiments in the 40s and 50s, not so far back at all.
>Older musicians had never stopped working with collective improvisation.
>Compositional approaches to form were a major interest of late swing era
>arrangers. And the blues/folk tradition was a central focus of the hard
>bop guys.
I can't believe I forgot to mention Jimmy Giuffre, who was incorporating
collective improvisation, extended forms, and blues/folk elements all at
the same time at least as early as 1956, more or less contemporaneous
with Mingus.
John Grabowski
Giuffre and Tristano are sadly forgotten nowadays for their significant
contributions. Sad, really.
John