Complete Candid Recordings of Charles Mingus
Allen Welsh
unfortunately INCOMPLETE in that it excluded one take of (I think) R&R.
The good news is that the Candid Mingus recordings are available on CD, I
think they've all been released by Candid, including the missing take of
R&R which is on "Reincarnation of A Love Bird" (Candid CCD 79026)
Stan Jones
>I'd been looking for the complete Mingus on Candid for years, and finally
>found out from a helpful employee at the Jazz Record Mart that Mosaic
>only sells through mail order these days. They gave me an old catalog
>and there it was, an enticing picture of the boxed set...with the ominous
>"Almost Sold Out" slashed across it. Of course when I called them it was
>sold out. Only 7500 copies were made.
>
>I could just get the _Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus_, but I want
>the whole enchilada. I've been increasingly obsessed by everything he's
>done between 1956 and 1964, and have heard almost unanimously that the
>Candid sessions are Mingus at his peak as both a composer and musician.
>So, if anyone knows if one is available anywhere, please let me know. Or
>if anyone else plans to reissue it.
I have been able to get all the material (plus one additional track, I think)
on separate Candid cds:
Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus CD 9005
Mingus CD 9021
Reincarnation of a Lovebird CCD 79026
Mysterious Blues CCD 79042
(These four are exclusively Mingus)
Newport Rebels CCD 79022 (3 Mingus tracks, with Roy Eldridge; Booker Little
also has a track and Dolphy with Anny Lincoln has
the fifth)
The Jazz Life CCD 79019 (2 Mingus tracks - the others I find less interesting
than Rebels)
I have in my mind that these are now being released by Black Lion (could well
be wrong about this).
Ed Rhodes
Mingus>, 'Uncle Fester <sav...@suba.com>' wrote:
>I could just get the _Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus_, but I want
>the whole enchilada.
There's a good deal more available on current Candid cd's than just the
above title. It may not be the whole thing but it should be close. I
don't know all of the titles but in addition to the above there is at least
"Mingus" and "Reincarnation of a Love Bird". (Marty, you should pick it up
here!)
One used vinyl dealer has told me that the Mosaic's are not always the last
word in completeness. In the case of either the Mingus or Cecil Taylor
Candid sets, there is apparently a take on a Candid cd release that was
missed in the Mosaic set. Also, when the sets go out of print and the
rights revert to the company that leased them to Mosaic, that company will
sometimes issue its own "complete" set. This has apparently happened with
the Blue Note Monk and Herbie Nichols sets.
Continue to hunt. You might still get to eat that enchilada.
Ed Rhodes
Marc Sabatella
> In article <4f6jcd$p...@suba01.suba.com>, Uncle Fester <sav...@suba.com> wrote:
> >I could just get the _Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus_, but I want
> >the whole enchilada. I've been increasingly obsessed by everything he's
> >done between 1956 and 1964, and have heard almost unanimously that the
> >Candid sessions are Mingus at his peak as both a composer and musician.
Well, for what it is worth, I think "CM Presents CM" is about the best album
he ever made, and is indeed probably one my my top five favorite albums of all
time, but I most of the other Candid material is worthless - my least favorite
Mingus without a doubt, and among my least favorite of any albums I still own.
Basically, there is lots of thrown together jam session type of material with
Roy Eldridge and other musicians who had little to do with what Mingus was
about, and it's not even well-executed jam session material.
> I have been able to get all the material (plus one additional track, I think)
> on separate Candid cds:
> Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus CD 9005
> Mingus CD 9021
> Reincarnation of a Lovebird CCD 79026
> Mysterious Blues CCD 79042
I have all but the second of these, and from what I understand, this is the
one to get (along with "Presents", of course). The title track to
"Reincarnation Of A Lovebird" is worth having - is there a version of this on
"Mingus"?
--
Marc Sabatella
--
ma...@fc.hp.com
http://www.fortnet.org/~marc/
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
R Shapiro
>Well, for what it is worth, I think "CM Presents CM" is about the best album
>he ever made, and is indeed probably one my my top five favorite albums of all
>time, but I most of the other Candid material is worthless - my least favorite
>Mingus without a doubt, and among my least favorite of any albums I still own.
>Basically, there is lots of thrown together jam session type of material with
>Roy Eldridge and other musicians who had little to do with what Mingus was
>about, and it's not even well-executed jam session material.
I was almost afraid to say this myself, what with all the r.m.bluenote
readers out there who throw a fit when anyone says anything less than
complimentary about a major artist. But since Marc has taken plunge, the
least I can do is publicly concur. I think he's got it exactly right: the
best of the Candid Mingus material is outstanding (although I'm not sure I
think it's better overall than the Atlantic records from the same era),
the rest of it is really pretty dreary. No sense pretending otherwise just
because it's Mingus...
--
rs/rsha...@bbn.com
Glenn Lea
> One used vinyl dealer has told me that the Mosaic's are not always the last
> word in completeness. In the case of either the Mingus or Cecil Taylor
> Candid sets, there is apparently a take on a Candid cd release that was
> missed in the Mosaic set.
True, but they corrected it in the CD edition of the Mingus box.
> Also, when the sets go out of print and the
> rights revert to the company that leased them to Mosaic, that company will
> sometimes issue its own "complete" set. This has apparently happened with
> the Blue Note Monk and Herbie Nichols sets.
True with the Monk, Bud Powell and Clifford Brown Blue Notes, not (yet)
with Nichols. But what's your point?
--
Glenn Lea
Walter Davis
sjo...@superior.carleton.ca (Stan Jones) wrote:
>In article <4f6jcd$p...@suba01.suba.com>, Uncle Fester <sav...@suba.com>
wrote:
finally
>>found out from a helpful employee at the Jazz Record Mart that Mosaic
>>only sells through mail order these days.
Just for clarification, Mosaic has always been mail-order only with the
exception of the Nat King Cole box which was distributed through
someone.
-walt
Walter Davis walter...@unc.edu or
Department of Sociology and wdavi...@mhs.unc.edu
Health Data Analyst at the ph: (919) 962-1019
Institute for Research in Social Science fax: (919) 962-4777
UNC - Chapel Hill
Lew Green
>Well, for what it is worth, I think "CM Presents CM" is about the best album
>he ever made, and is indeed probably one my my top five favorite albums of all
>time, but I most of the other Candid material is worthless - my least favorite
>Mingus without a doubt, and among my least favorite of any albums I still own.
Thanks Marc, I was wondering if it was just me... I love a lot of
Mingus... It opened doors for me... But I got he Mosaic Box and it
has left me flat and went in my trade pile... I didn't listen all the
way... so I'm going to find the CM p CM material and listen to that...
And maybe I'll let the set go and find an original of that...
I know you're a musician... I don't know any theory, terminology...
I'm just a great jazz listener, toe tapper, and every now and then my
head starts boppin around on my neck and I can't stop it...
Later.
Lew
Martin Milgrim
little to do with what Mingus was about, and it's not even well-executed
jam session material."
"Worthless", when discussing Mingus music!!!! Hmmm......to say I
disagree would be an understatement. I think the tracks "Mysterious
Blues" and "Body and Soul" contain terrific Dolphy and very entertaining
Eldridge, and do much to show how great musicians of any era can interact
well with each other.
Marty
Genie Baker
Marc Sabatella <ma...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
>Well, for what it is worth, I think "CM Presents CM" is about the best album
>he ever made, and is indeed probably one my my top five favorite albums of all
>time, but I most of the other Candid material is worthless - my least favorite
>Mingus without a doubt, and among my least favorite of any albums I still own.
>Basically, there is lots of thrown together jam session type of material with
>Roy Eldridge and other musicians who had little to do with what Mingus was
>about...
It may be worth looking instead for Mingus albums with that great band
-- Dolphy, Ted Curson, Booker Ervin, Dannie Richmond, &c.
I second Marc's recommendation of CM Presents CM.
The eponymously titled Mingus is one of those albums that didn't leave
my cd player for a couple weeks. (I'm sure my neighbors hate me. I'm not
quite as bad as my brother, who in attempts to learn tunes, used to play a
few bars, back it up, play the same phrase over again a few times, &c, &c.
-- he was frequently on the same *tune* for a couple weeks.)
A third album to consider is Mingus at Antibes, on Atlantic.
>> Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus CD 9005
>> Mingus CD 9021
>> Reincarnation of a Lovebird CCD 79026
>> Mysterious Blues CCD 79042
>
>I have all but the second of these, and from what I understand, this is the
>one to get (along with "Presents", of course). The title track to
>"Reincarnation Of A Lovebird" is worth having - is there a version of this on
>"Mingus"?
No. "Mingus" has MDM (which stands for Monk, Duke and Mingus -- it's an
interweaving of themes from all three. I should be embarassed that I
can't remember which tunes they are.) The cd has an additional track not
mentioned in the liner notes anywhere, Vasserlean (same melody as Pipe
Dream, Smooch and Weird Nightmare -- thanks Bill Hery). The third track
is a Stormy Weather that is, imo, worth the price of the cd all by itself
-- spectacular Dolphy feature. The fourth cut is a frantic piece
originally titled "Hellview from Bellvue" and I *think* called "Lock 'em
Up" on the album.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Genie Baker gba...@umich.edu
PRProf
an ersatz correspondent for the old Metronome magazine when in college a
century ago; still have it and still think it's one of the best albums
ever. And as to anything by Mingus being "worthless," wow! Not to say
rmb-ers can't disagree with each other, but "worthless...?" I'd listen to
his work if he'd scored a hip-hop album.
PRP...@aol.com
(Bill Adams)
Ed Rhodes
without acquiring the Mosaic set. In the case of the Mingus/Candid
material other posters have indicated that this is in fact the case with
the four extant Candid cd's. I also thought it important to point out that
this has happened in other cases (e.g., the Blue Notes) and might in fact
happen again.
I've hunted down several out-of-print Mosaic sets (Blue Note Monk, Nichols,
Powell) and bought several others while they were still in print. But I
was able to piece together the Clifford Brown box from various items of
vinyl and cd. So folks shouldn't despair if they can't find the Mosaic.
There are sometimes other ways.
Ed Rhodes
Uncle Fester
>"Worthless", when discussing Mingus music!!!! Hmmm......to say I
>disagree would be an understatement. I think the tracks "Mysterious
>Blues" and "Body and Soul" contain terrific Dolphy and very entertaining
>Eldridge, and do much to show how great musicians of any era can interact
>well with each other.
Definately -- I think Eric Dolphy was at his best when he played with
Mingus. And we're talking about a cat who played with the other giants
of the early 60s, Coltrane and Coleman...
UF
Uncle Fester
>
>>the whole enchilada.
e...@nyc.pipeline.com (Ed Rhodes) wrote:>
>"Mingus" and "Reincarnation of a Love Bird".
>Continue to hunt. You might still get to eat that enchilada.
You're right. In addition to those, there's "Mysterious Blues," the
fourth Candid CD which I happened to find used for $7 at the store right
next door to me! I've had a quarter of that enchilada and it is
delicious.
UF
Walter Davis
e...@nyc.pipeline.com (Ed Rhodes) wrote:
> Also, when the sets go out of print and the
>rights revert to the company that leased them to Mosaic, that company
will
>sometimes issue its own "complete" set. This has apparently happened
with
>the Blue Note Monk and Herbie Nichols sets.
>
set.
Doug Tygar
Walter Davis <wdavi...@mhs.unc.edu> wrote:
>Just for clarification, Mosaic has always been mail-order only with the
>exception of the Nat King Cole box which was distributed through
>someone.
The Cole box was distributed by EMI -- at a huge discount over the Mosaic
box. Mosaic boxes are available in stores in Europe. There is also a lively
trade in used Mosaic boxes.
R. Lynn Rardin
>Walter Davis <wdavi...@mhs.unc.edu> wrote:
>
>>Just for clarification, Mosaic has always been mail-order only with the
>>exception of the Nat King Cole box which was distributed through
>>someone.
>
>The Cole box was distributed by EMI -- at a huge discount over the Mosaic
>box. Mosaic boxes are available in stores in Europe.
This is also true in Japan. When I was there in 1994, I saw a number of
new Mosaic box sets in stores.
-Lynn (rar...@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu)
Marc Sabatella
> Marc Sabatella <ma...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
> >Well, for what it is worth, I think "CM Presents CM" is about the best album
> >he ever made, and is indeed probably one my my top five favorite albums of all
> >time, but I most of the other Candid material is worthless
Of course, I overstated somewhat for dramatic effect, and I did discount
"Mingus", the one Candid I don't own, but which everyone seems to agree is as
fine as "Presents".
> It may be worth looking instead for Mingus albums with that great band
> -- Dolphy, Ted Curson, Booker Ervin, Dannie Richmond, &c.
> ...
> A third album to consider is Mingus at Antibes, on Atlantic.
Yes, and Richard also mentioned the Atlantics of the same period. This is the
only one I have, though. What else is there of this group that people
recommend? I have the Town Hall Concert with Jaki Byard, plus a boot (I
assume) from the European Tour.
> >The title track to
> >"Reincarnation Of A Lovebird" is worth having - is there a version of this on
> >"Mingus"?
> No.
Bummer. What I'd like to see, then, is a second set that would contain only
"Presents", "Mingus", and the non-jam-session tracks from "Mysterious Blues"
and "Reincarnation". Not that I'd buy the set; as soon as I pick up "Mingus",
I'll have all the Candids, but then there would be a set I could recommend
with no reservations.
R Shapiro
>Yes, and Richard also mentioned the Atlantics of the same period. This is the
>only one I have, though [Antibes] What else is there of this group that people
>recommend?
Blues And Roots is an essential item, wonderful throughout.
Pithecanthropus Erectus, The Clown, Tonight At Noon, and Oh Yeah are more
mixed, but there are superb performances on every one of these. I've never
quite made up my mind about Tijuana Moods, but I think I just need to play
it more.
If this era isn't *quite* up to the best of the Dolphy-era Mingus, it's
still striking music and in some ways even more spirited and fresh,
especially the late 50s Atlantic dates which show Mingus really bursting
out for the first time.
--
rs/rsha...@bbn.com
Charles H Berg
People,
Wasn't Mingus Solo Piano disc on Atlantic? (My copy is home....)
--
Charlie Berg
c...@world.std.com
Marc Sabatella
> >Yes, and Richard also mentioned the Atlantics of the same period. This is the
> >only one I have, though [Antibes] What else is there of this group that people
> >recommend?
> Blues And Roots is an essential item, wonderful throughout.
> Pithecanthropus Erectus, The Clown, Tonight At Noon, and Oh Yeah are more
> mixed, but there are superb performances on every one of these. I've never
> quite made up my mind about Tijuana Moods, but I think I just need to play
> it more.
Ah, I have heard most of these, but they don't feature the Dolphy band. I
thought maybe your comment meant there were some (out-of-print, presumably)
Atlantic with this band that I was not aware of.
W.Hery
>Genie Baker wrote:
>> It may be worth looking instead for Mingus albums with that great band
>> -- Dolphy, Ted Curson, Booker Ervin, Dannie Richmond, &c.
>> ...
>> A third album to consider is Mingus at Antibes, on Atlantic.
>
>recommend? I have the Town Hall Concert with Jaki Byard, plus a boot (I
>assume) from the European Tour.
The Dolphy/Curson band is a pianoless group from 1960 (maybe 61?) that made
the Candid and Atlantic/Antibes recordings. The Town Hall and European
tour recordings (about 10 different dates released, mostly bootlegs)
are from April 1964 and include Byard on piano. I think these two
groups are very different in character--Dolphy spent time with Trane
in between, and Byard added a different dimension. This Town Hall
concert, BTW, was recorded just before they left for Europe.
Bill Hery
Bell Labs, Whippany NJ
w.h...@att.com
Ed Rhodes
Charles Mingus>, 'w...@sonapub.wh.att.com (W.Hery)' wrote:
>The Dolphy/Curson band is a pianoless group from 1960 (maybe 61?) that
made
>the Candid and Atlantic/Antibes recordings.
without a piano, Mingus used quite a few piano players during their tenure
at the Showplace, among them Kenny Drew, Jaki Byard, Kenny Barron and Sy
Johnson (this from the Priestly bio). Elvin Jones, Wilbur Ware, Jimmy
Knepper, Yusef Lateef, Teddy Charles and tap dancer Baby Laurence were some
of the other musicians that performed with this particular edition of the
Jazz Workshop.
>The Town Hall and European
>tour recordings (about 10 different dates released, mostly bootlegs)
>are from April 1964 and include Byard on piano. I think these two
>groups are very different in character--Dolphy spent time with Trane
>in between, and Byard added a different dimension.
wouldn't attribute it so much to a change in Dolphy's conception but rather
a change in what Mingus was looking to do. Byard's piano is part of it.
The bands' repertoires were also different. But mostly it's Mingus,
"unimpressed by himself and his previous creation".
Ed Rhodes
Ashley Capps
Berg) wrote:
> People,
> Wasn't Mingus Solo Piano disc on Atlantic? (My copy is home....)
It's on Impulse.
Ashley