What's the best version of "Green Dolphin Street"?
Funkallero
Jazzcorner
"Funkallero" <funkmei...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1193547808.7...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Miles? Dolphy? Evans? Eddie Harris? Rollins?
here are some more versions to select from:
(note track is known under the 2 versions)
green dolphin street Alexander,Monty 0068044 MPS Monty strike again - M.
Alexander live in Germany
green dolphin street Kessel/Brown 7535 Contemporary (OJC) The Poll Winners
green Dolphin street Kelly/Jaspar 12-298 Riverside (jap) Kelly Blue - Wynton
Kelly Trio/Sextet
Green Dolphin street van Damme,Art 2120737-4 MPS/BASF Keep Going - The Art
van Damme Quintet
Green Dolphin Street Singers Unlimited 0068103 MPS Feeling Free-The Singers
Unlimited
Green Dolphin Street Singers Unlimited 68103 MPS Singers Unlimited - Feeling
Free
green dophin street Peterson, Oscar 2332 065 Verve Very Tall The O.Peterson
Trio with Milt Jackson
on green dolphin street Manne/Jolly 7026 Yupitery (jap) "Gemini Three"
Shelley Manne Trio
on green dolphin street Manne/Freeman 1018 Atlas (jap) "one on One" Russ
Freeman & Shelley Manne
on green dolphin street Davis/Adderley 32025 Columbia Basic Miles - Classic
Performances of M.Davis
on green dolphin street McCann,Les 20120 Pacific Jazz From the top of the
barrel
on green dolphin street Davis/Shorter 25AP1 CBS-Sony (jap) Miles Davis at he
Plugged Nickel, Chicago
on green dolphin street Most / Viola o.Nr. Ufo Bass Sam Most & Al Viola -
Pacific Standard Time CD
on green Dolphin street McCann,Les 0025 Pacific Jazz (jap) Pretty Lady
on green Dolphin street Peterson,Oscar 2078 Verve (jap) The Sound Of The
Trio-O.Peterson live ....
on green Dolphin street Lytle/Cranshaw 9480 Riverside (OJC) The Village
Caller! Johhnny Lytle
on green Dolphin Street Coleman,G. 178 Affinity (Bethl.) Big Geroge - The
George Coleman Octet
on green Dolphin Street Shepp, Archie 7524 Denon (jap) On green Dolphin
Street - Archie Shepp
on green Dolphin Street Rollins, Sonny 91 Impulse Sonny Rollins On Impulse
on green Dolphin Street Getz/Burton 2304 044 Verve(France) The Stan Getz
Quartet In Paris
Funkallero
> "Funkallero" <funkmeisterm...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:1193547808.7...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Jimmy Bruno's got a nice version, as well.
sg...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've having a debate with a trumpet player friend of mine who claims
that the real Jazz key for GDS is Eb, not C.
He claims that the early recordings of GDS were in Eb, and that C is
the "club date" key.
Of course, this gives him license in his twisted mind, to put me and
other jazz guys younger than him down, because we play it in the "club
date" key, not the real Jazz key.
He's been doing a bunch of gigs with Earl May (one of Trane's early
bass players) and Percy Bryce, and my last gig was a benefit for
retarded people, so maybe he's got a point there : ' )
UCLAN
> Miles? Dolphy? Evans? Eddie Harris? Rollins?
Claudio Roditi on "Three for One."
pmfan57
I think I like Rollins version, which I posted the other day. And I
love Evans' version on the Live in Tokyo album. That whole album is
superb. Of the the famous studio version with Miles, Evans, Coltrane
et al. is a classic.
tomb...@jhu.edu
Any decent player can play it in both keys, so what the hell
difference does it make?
jan winter
--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
name=j.win7er provider=gmail com=com
www.hawaiianrainbow.com
p.e.r.i.o.d.i.c.
Funkallero <funkmei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Miles? Dolphy? Evans? Eddie Harris? Rollins?
Miles version w/ Trane is, to me, pure art.
Evans piano solo is poetry in sound.
Can't top it, imo.
UCLAN
> Green Dolphin Street is a tune best avoided by jazz musicians.
OK. I'll bite. Why?
jim
> I've having a debate with a trumpet player friend of mine who claims
> that the real Jazz key for GDS is Eb, not C.
> He claims that the early recordings of GDS were in Eb, and that C is
> the "club date" key.
My favorite way to play it is Eb, in three.
Jim
>
cl...@claymoore.com
> Any decent player can play it in both keys, so what the hell
> difference does it make?
Tom woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
danny...@cox.net
I've got the original sheet music and it's in C on that.
Danny W.
Phil Wilson
> On Oct 28, 8:40 am, sg...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Oct 28, 9:05 am, Funkallero <funkmeisterm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 28, 7:53 am, "Jazzcorner" <jazzcor...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> "Funkallero" <funkmeisterm...@gmail.com> schrieb im
>>>> Newsbeitragnews:1193547808.7...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> Miles? Dolphy? Evans? Eddie Harris? Rollins?
>>
>>>> here are some more versions to select from:
>>>> (note track is known under the 2 versions)
<snip>
There's a nice version by Sarah Vaughn (Vaughan? can't remember)
somewhere of this tune. Not earth-shatteringly advanced, but
attractive to listen to, since it's a nice melody.
Cheers,
Phil
Funkallero
My wonderment, too. One of the great jazz tunes of all time. I guess a
tune isn't worth it unless it's atonal and/or aschews any rules that
may make it interesting to the general population.
jan winter
As you cannot have based your last remark on my posting history in this group,
it must be a prejudice.
But I'll explain, also for UCLAN.
Apart from the trite lyrics, Dolphin Street has, for an improviser, some
dangerous particulars. The chromatic downward turn in the first sentences is
very difficult to avoid, which can make a solo easily boring. Further, the
ABAC scheme makes it difficult to play over the chorusboundary, where, as we
all now, the really exiting things in jazz tends to happen ("If you come out
of the channel, that's where you really start to play", Tadd Dameron to Fats
Navarro).
So, looks to me like three strong reasons to avoid this tune.
UCLAN
>>>>Green Dolphin Street is a tune best avoided by jazz musicians.
>>>
>>>OK. I'll bite. Why?
>>
>>My wonderment, too. One of the great jazz tunes of all time. I guess a
>>tune isn't worth it unless it's atonal and/or aschews any rules that
>>may make it interesting to the general population.
>
> As you cannot have based your last remark on my posting history in this group,
> it must be a prejudice.
>
> But I'll explain, also for UCLAN.
> Apart from the trite lyrics,
I've *never* been to a performance where GDS had lyrics. I heard it once
on the radio with lyrics, and they sounded like an afterthought. How many
of the over 500 recorded versions of this song include lyrics? None in my
collection.
> So, looks to me like three strong reasons to avoid this tune.
I'm glad so many of the great players in jazz don't share your opinion.
Tony Mountifield
I like the version by Stan Getz on Serenity.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: to...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: to...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
p.e.r.i.o.d.i.c.
jan winter <na...@provider.com> wrote:
> Apart from the trite lyrics, Dolphin Street has, for an improviser, some
> dangerous particulars. The chromatic downward turn in the first sentences is
> very difficult to avoid, which can make a solo easily boring. Further, the
> ABAC scheme makes it difficult to play over the chorusboundary, where, as we
> all now, the really exiting things in jazz tends to happen ("If you come out
> of the channel, that's where you really start to play", Tadd Dameron to Fats
> Navarro).
> So, looks to me like three strong reasons to avoid this tune.
You _must_ be a non-player.
I can make zero sense out of anything you have said.
And even if I could - the fact that many (if not most) of
the greatest players in the modern history of the music have
played/recorded the tune makes your point, such
as it is, entirely moot.
Loudon Briggs
>
>I've *never* been to a performance where GDS had lyrics. I heard it once
>on the radio with lyrics, and they sounded like an afterthought. How many
>of the over 500 recorded versions of this song include lyrics? None in my
>collection.
>
I thought it might be fun to see if I could name ten vocal artists who
have recorded this tune... I think your collection is missing a few
good 'uns!
Ella Fitzgerald
Sarah Vaughan
Mark Murphy
Billy Eckstine
Dakota Staton
Nancy Wilson
Harry Connick Jr.
Mel Torme
I had to look for a couple more to make ten...
Singers Unlimited
Ron Kaplan
There are probably some others I can't recall.
Considering the abilities and reputations of the folks listed, I doubt
that they would've recorded the song if they had shared your opinion
of the lyrics.
--
Loudon Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, Arizona, USA)
hw
"jan winter" <na...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:PM00043DB...@wjpjpw.lan...
you are speaking in tongues. none of the above makes any sense from a
musician's point of view.
jan winter
[snip]
> You _must_ be a non-player.
Depends on what you think I don't play.
> I can make zero sense out of anything you have said.
> And even if I could - the fact that many (if not most) of
> the greatest players in the modern history of the music have
> played/recorded the tune makes your point, such
> as it is, entirely moot.
Well, certainly not _most_ of the greatest players; the tune was written in
'47 when jazz history was about halfway.
I should also like to see a list of the greatest players who didn't play the
song. Bird? Monk? Bean? (maybe) Navarro? Dameron? Ellington? Armstrong? Billy
Holiday? Clifford Brown? Blakey? Klook?
Which would be no argument either. The fact that lots of people do or do not
play a song doesn't make it a good or bad song.
Ayler _did_ play it I recall. May very well be my favourite rendition :-)
jan winter
[snip]
> Considering the abilities and reputations of the folks listed, I doubt
> that they would've recorded the song if they had shared your opinion
> of the lyrics.
Maybe, maybe not.
Sheila Jordan loves the tune but also comments:
"On a tune like this I would not get too hung up on the lyrics, because they
don’t knock me out."
jan winter
> "jan winter" <na...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:PM00043DB...@wjpjpw.lan...
>
>> But I'll explain, also for UCLAN.
>> Apart from the trite lyrics, Dolphin Street has, for an improviser, some
>> dangerous particulars. The chromatic downward turn in the first sentences
>> is
>> very difficult to avoid, which can make a solo easily boring. Further, the
>> ABAC scheme makes it difficult to play over the chorusboundary, where, as
>> we
>> all now, the really exiting things in jazz tends to happen ("If you come
>> out
>> of the channel, that's where you really start to play", Tadd Dameron to
>> Fats
>> Navarro).
>> So, looks to me like three strong reasons to avoid this tune.
>
> you are speaking in tongues. none of the above makes any sense from a
> musician's point of view.
"chromatic downward turn?"
"chorusboundary" may not be the correct english terminology, but I mean the
place where one chorus ends, and a new one starts.
The Dameron quote? Also senseless to you? So, what kind of musician are you
then?
hw
> hw wrote:
>
>> "jan winter" <na...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:PM00043DB...@wjpjpw.lan...
>>
>>> But I'll explain, also for UCLAN.
>>> Apart from the trite lyrics, Dolphin Street has, for an improviser, some
>>> dangerous particulars. The chromatic downward turn in the first
>>> sentences
>>> is
>>> very difficult to avoid, which can make a solo easily boring. Further,
>>> the
>>> ABAC scheme makes it difficult to play over the chorusboundary, where,
>>> as
>>> we
>>> all now, the really exiting things in jazz tends to happen ("If you come
>>> out
>>> of the channel, that's where you really start to play", Tadd Dameron to
>>> Fats
>>> Navarro).
>>> So, looks to me like three strong reasons to avoid this tune.
>>
>> you are speaking in tongues. none of the above makes any sense from a
>> musician's point of view.
>
> "chromatic downward turn?"
F7-E7 (just a sub for Bb7)-Ebj7, that is as vanilla as it gets, far more
than 50% of all standards contain that progression.
> "chorusboundary" may not be the correct english terminology, but I mean
> the
> place where one chorus ends, and a new one starts.
Like in *every* standard? So you prefer AABA forms to A-A' ? That's fine.
> The Dameron quote? Also senseless to you? So, what kind of musician are
> you
> then?
Yes, channel is what we usually call a *bridge*. Dolphin St. has got none.I
think even Dameron wrote pieces without a "channel". Are you saying that a
proper vehicle for improvisation has to have a "bridge", or do you think
that is what Dameron meant?
jan winter
> "jan winter" <na...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:PM00043DC...@wjpjpw.lan...
>> hw wrote:
[snip]
>>> you are speaking in tongues. none of the above makes any sense from a
>>> musician's point of view.
>>
>> "chromatic downward turn?"
>
> F7-E7 (just a sub for Bb7)-Ebj7, that is as vanilla as it gets, far more
> than 50% of all standards contain that progression.
Not in the melody.
>> "chorusboundary" may not be the correct english terminology, but I mean
>> the
>> place where one chorus ends, and a new one starts.
>
> Like in *every* standard? So you prefer AABA forms to A-A' ? That's fine.
Did I say so? I don't think so. What I tried to say was that the ABAC form of
GrDStr makes it more difficult to fly over the chorusses than a AABA form.
Flying over the chorusses is what makes a musician really good. Take, for
instance and to name but one, Harold Land. Good, Rollins-like sound although
somewhat more woolly; can play for 20 minutes, but tends to start a new solo
every chorus instead of telling _one_ story.
>> The Dameron quote? Also senseless to you? So, what kind of musician are
>> you
>> then?
>
> Yes, channel is what we usually call a *bridge*. Dolphin St. has got none.I
> think even Dameron wrote pieces without a "channel". Are you saying that a
> proper vehicle for improvisation has to have a "bridge", or do you think
> that is what Dameron meant?
What I say and what I think you can find quite clearly in my first post about
this subject.
Mike C.
news:fg9vck$hht$1...@softins.clara.co.uk...
Cool. I'll check that out. Nice to get back to the subject.
--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
"A great percentage of people don't want a challenge. They want
something done to them, they don't want to participate. But there'll
always be maybe 15% that desire something more, and they'll search it
out. And maybe that's where art is."
- Bill Evans
UCLAN
> I thought it might be fun to see if I could name ten vocal artists who
> have recorded this tune... I think your collection is missing a few
> good 'uns!
>
> Ella Fitzgerald
> Sarah Vaughan
> Mark Murphy
> Billy Eckstine
> Dakota Staton
> Nancy Wilson
> Harry Connick Jr.
> Mel Torme
>
> I had to look for a couple more to make ten...
>
> Singers Unlimited
> Ron Kaplan
>
> There are probably some others I can't recall.
10 out of over 500. You do the math. [Hint: it's less than 2%.]
> Considering the abilities and reputations of the folks listed, I doubt
> that they would've recorded the song if they had shared your opinion
> of the lyrics.
Is there any song, with good lyrics or bad, that Mel Torme *didn't* perform?
Vocalists want to do a great song, and they don't play sax, so they use the
lyrics. That doesn't mean the lyrics are good. That's just what they do.
Loudon Briggs
>
>10 out of over 500. You do the math. [Hint: it's less than 2%.]
>
Your figure of "500" piqued my interest. It made me go look at the
ASCAP site to see who they might have listed. They show about 50 to
60, and some of them are listed twice.
Where did you find 500?
Bobby Knight
wrote:
>UCLAN <nom...@thanks.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>10 out of over 500. You do the math. [Hint: it's less than 2%.]
>>
>
>Your figure of "500" piqued my interest. It made me go look at the
>ASCAP site to see who they might have listed. They show about 50 to
>60, and some of them are listed twice.
>
>Where did you find 500?
C'mon Loudon. This is Usenet. Hyperbole abounds! :-)
BK
UCLAN
> Your figure of "500" piqued my interest. It made me go look at the
> ASCAP site to see who they might have listed. They show about 50 to
> 60, and some of them are listed twice.
Don't forget, many variations of the title were used, such as "Green
Dolphin Street", "On Green Dolphin Street", etc. And that is 500+ total
recordings - not total artists.
> Where did you find 500?
AMG.
Loudon Briggs
No, I didn't forget other possible variations of the title. "On Green
Dolphin Street" offered about 80, and many of them were duplicates of
the previous 50 to 60 I mentioned. Also, on both lists, if an artist
recorded the song more than once, it was shown.
What other title should I look for?
p.e.r.i.o.d.i.c.
jan winter <na...@provider.com> wrote:
> > I can make zero sense out of anything you have said.
> > And even if I could - the fact that many (if not most) of
> > the greatest players in the modern history of the music have
> > played/recorded the tune makes your point, such
> > as it is, entirely moot.
> Well, certainly not _most_ of the greatest players; the tune was written in
> '47 when jazz history was about halfway.
Read what I said; the _modern_ history of the music,
which I hold to be from around the late-50s on -
roughly starting with Kind of Blue.
There are countless recordings of it, and while there is no
way of knowing how many of the great players played
the tune without recording it, I'd venture to guess
a great majority of them did.
Albert Ayler's version is your favorite? This says,
to me, quite a bit about your musical orientation.
Carry on, my friend.
jan winter
> Albert Ayler's version is your favorite? This says,
> to me, quite a bit about your musical orientation.
You didn't notice the smiley? You don't know shit about my "musical
orientation" (whatever that may be; I listen to all music that succeeds in
catching my ear), 'though I won't hide my belief that Ayler is one of the
greatest players of all times.
p.e.r.i.o.d.i.c.
jan winter <na...@provider.com> wrote:
> You didn't notice the smiley?
I did, but I took it for a sign of enthusiasm.
> You don't know shit about my "musical
> orientation" (whatever that may be; I listen to all music that succeeds in
> catching my ear), 'though I won't hide my belief that Ayler is one of the
> greatest players of all times.
Oh yeah. He can absolutely be classed with
Rollins and Coltrane.
NOT.
jan winter
> In article <PM00043DE...@wjpjpw.lan>,
> jan winter <na...@provider.com> wrote:
>
>> You didn't notice the smiley?
>
> I did, but I took it for a sign of enthusiasm.
How could that be? Didn't you know, I loath the tune.
>> You don't know shit about my "musical
>> orientation" (whatever that may be; I listen to all music that succeeds in
>> catching my ear), 'though I won't hide my belief that Ayler is one of the
>> greatest players of all times.
>
> Oh yeah. He can absolutely be classed with
> Rollins and Coltrane.
>
> NOT.
Coltrane had a very high regard of Ayler; better still, his playing shook him
up completely and showed him new directions to go. You probably know what he
said about himself, Pharaoh Sanders and Ayler: The father, the son and the
holy ghost. Ayler (and Ornette) played at Trane's funeral. You think they'd
let him do this if he was worthless?
Let's just say that I have more trust in Trane's judgment than in yours.
And last but not least there are my own years that tell me, since I heard
Ayler for the first time in '64 (Amsterdam, Sheherezade), that this is what
jazz is all about.
Kerry
> Miles? Dolphy? Evans? Eddie Harris? Rollins?
I've always been fond of Cal Tjader's version from In a Latin Bag
[Verve 8419] with Paul Horn's killer flute solo, Al McKibbon on bass,
Johnny Rae timbales, Armando Peraza bongos, Lonnie Hewitt piano and
Wilfredo Vicente on congas. Great feeling from all involved.
McKibbon sets up a mesmerizing tempo and Lonnie Hewitt plays a nice
solo, along with Cal, of course. LA, 1961.
If you don't have the LP, I think Verve reissued this track in 1996 ::
http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Round-Midnight-Cal-Tjader/dp/B00000473Z
~Kerry.
jwra...@gmail.com
> "jan winter" <n...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:PM00043DC...@wjpjpw.lan...
>
>
>
>
>
> > hw wrote:
>
> >> "jan winter" <n...@provider.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
> - Show quoted text -
Considering all the fantastic jazz improvisations that have been
recorded on this tune, it's hard to believe anyone would make such an
argument at this point.