Flat Foot Floogie with the Floy, Floy
Thomas J. Senchyna
I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
Thanks!
Please respond to fre...@jandel.com, NOT the author of this message.
BARD
The expression may not have anything at all to do with
Black Americana.
I suspect its origin is more contemporary white youth (cica late '30's,h5ö
Bobbie-soxers, Glenn Miller kids, etc,) than jazz, R&B, Blues, jook
joints, etc...
Anyway, it seems I recall hearing it associated with a certain
kind of musical beat or time scheme. Perhaps the big band beat of the
late '30's again. I dunno... I'm too young I guess.
Ask DCI, he's old as dirt. He'd probably have a clue.
BARD
Kera Zakiyah Bell
>: I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
>: by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
>For that matter, what is a "floogie"?
... and why is it flat? (Sometimes I just can't help myself!)
kera :>
Ted Thompson
>
> >: I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
> >: by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>
> >: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
>
>
> >For that matter, what is a "floogie"?
>
> ... and why is it flat? (Sometimes I just can't help myself!)
> kera :>
"Floogie" is a variation of "floozy" or, a self-indulgent, predatory
woman. (Source: Dictionary of American Slang)
The song refers to a prostitute with flat feet.
Don't know what "floy" means although, as I remember, it has something to
do with food. In the movie, "Atlantic City", Burt Lancaster talks about
this.
Seth Jackson
: Hi,
: I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
: by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
For that matter, what is a "floogie"?
--
Seth Jackson
D.C.I.
writes:
Floogie is a person that just makes those soul moves with style and
grace, a cool one with floy (style). Floy is chutzpah.
Slim had more jive phrases put into the Americana of scat singing than
most scat singers could ever imagine . . . Cement mixer, putty, putty .
etc. Slam Stewart did the same with a double bass.
DCI
edu...@gate.net
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
> by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>
> What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
>
This very question was discussed some time back on a most unlikely
newsgroup:rec.music.early The definitive reply came from musician and
scholar Joel Cohen and it's not nearly as romantic as some of the
speculations. It's very down to earth as are most jazz lyrics. According to
Joel Cohen a floogie is a prostitute and floy-floy is a venereal disease.
ED IN SUNNY SOUTH FLORIDA
edu...@gate.net
Glyphix
: I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
: by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
Slim and Slam were purveyers of a pseudo-language of hipsters called
"Vout-Orooni." Vout-Orooni was popular as a sort of pig-latin among the
in-crowd of hipsters, jazzmen, drug dealers, etc. Although I'm no hip
linguist, I'm inclined to go with Joel Cohen's translation.
Many songs of those days celebrated what most of us would call the
underside of street life. Cab Calloway made a career of singing songs
about marijuana, for example, even though he was clean. There were many
"reefer song" and sexually explicit hits during those days as well, all
sung in lyrics that utilized various amounts of coded language. Lester
Young, as noted in earlier threads by myself and others, spoke a personal
coded language almost exclusively, giving rise to phrases that have jumped
into the mainstream (such as "Big Apple" for New York City). Like some of
the initial rebelious origins of bop, vout-orooni and other coded lingos
were attempts by the hip (mostly black and underground) to deny
understanding to the squares (mostly white with social security numbers
;-) ) in their midst.
Bright Moments;
George Bailey
Art Schuna
>It's very fascinating to read the hugely different replies to this question.
>This very question was discussed some time back on a most unlikely
>newsgroup:rec.music.early The definitive reply came from musician and
>scholar Joel Cohen and it's not nearly as romantic as some of the
>speculations. It's very down to earth as are most jazz lyrics. According to
>Joel Cohen a floogie is a prostitute and floy-floy is a venereal disease.
I have read this version of the definition of terms somewhere else before
this post. According to liner notes for "Slim and Slam: Complete
Recordings 1938-42" on Affinity (CD AFS 1034-3), The song and lyrics were
originally "The flat foot FLOOZIE with the floy floy". When the tune was
first recorded for Vocalion in 1938, they rejected it as they didn't like
the term floozie. Subsequent takes changed the lyric to floogie. No
pressings of the original take have been uncovered.
Art Schuna
Floyd Miller
>: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
I think a floy-floy is a type of dress ir skirt that was popular during
the forties.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Floyd Miller fl...@wmi.com *
* Woodward McCoach, Inc. West Chester, PA USA *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
William F. Hummel
: Hi,
: I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
: by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
: What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
----------------------------------
There were many meaningless words used in scat songs in his day. My
guess is the "floy" is a nonsense word. Ella used to do a lot of that.
William
Sandeep Mehta
> Lester Young, as noted in earlier threads by myself and others,
> spoke a personal coded language almost exclusively, giving rise to
> phrases that have jumped into the mainstream (such as "Big Apple"
> for New York City).
While I agree about less than obvious coded language in popular use
in those days, Lester was not responsible for "Big Apple", which
initially referred to Harlem, but may have helped popularize the term
in music circles.
Here's a letter, which I've posted here before, by Geraldine Daniels
(Member of Assembly, 70th District, NY) to the NY Times from a few
years ago which explains this.
======
It seems, the answer, according to Harlem griots (a common term for
oral historians), lies in Harlem. The origin of the term is
attributed to Alain Locke, Professor of Philosophy at Howard
University, who originated the term during the Harlem Renaissance of
the 1920's.
Dr. Locke, a Harvard graduate and the first black Rhodes scholar to
attend Oxford, used the term to depict Harlem as the precious fruit in
the Garden of Eden, an oasis for the literary, musical, and painting
talents of oppressed black American intellectuals.
Fletcher Henderson was a colleague of Dr. Locke's in the 20's. Many of
you know that Henderson was in Benny Goodman's band in the 30's and 40's
and also the conductor of his orchestra. Henderson's orchestra is
supposed to be the first black musical ensemble to have played on
Broadway.
The Harlem griots say that Fletcher Henderson popularized the term "Big
Apple". Jazz greats from the South like Louis Armstrong and Coleman
Hawkins were enticed by Henderson to come join his orchestra in the Big
Apple. Other talented black musicians followed, making Harlem the mecca
of jazz.
Others who came to Harlem included the poets Langston Hughes and Claude
McKay, writers Henry Moon and William Braithwaite, artists Lois Mailou
Jones and Romare Bearden. In addition, Todd Duncan and Anne Wiggins
Brown, opera singers; Hall Johnson, arranger of spirituals, singers
Roland Hayes, Paul Robeson and Marian Anderson.
The Big Apple eventually became a nationally popular dance, a famous bar
on 7th Ave (Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Blvd.) and 135th St, and the symbol
of New York.
======
/sandeep
--
Sandeep Mehta sme...@lehman.com
Michael Shoshani
Hmmm...guess I can stop trying to look up "Frim-Fram" and "Chifafa" in
the dictionary ;-)
(heh...maybe we need someone to compile a SCAT dictionary! :)))) )
--
shos...@miso.wwa.com / i once heard the survivors of a colony of ants
Michael SB Shoshani / that had been partially obliterated by a cow s foot
Chicago IL, USA / seriously debating the intention of the gods
/ towards their civilization --archy
Brian D. Phillips
: >
: > >For that matter, what is a "floogie"?
: >
: > ... and why is it flat? (Sometimes I just can't help myself!)
: > kera :>
: "Floogie" is a variation of "floozy" or, a self-indulgent, predatory
: woman. (Source: Dictionary of American Slang)
: The song refers to a prostitute with flat feet.
: Don't know what "floy" means although, as I remember, it has something to
: do with food. In the movie, "Atlantic City", Burt Lancaster talks about
: this.
I had heard somewhere that "Floy-Floy" referred to gonorrhea. When you
deal with Gaillard, you deal with someone with a very interesting slang
set. At one time, there was a book which he called "Dictionary of
Vout(pronounced "Voot") that he wrote.
Brian
Brice Wightman
In a previous posting, William F. Hummel (wfhu...@netcom.com) writes:
> Thomas J. Senchyna (jan...@crl.com) wrote:
> : Hi,
>
> : I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie" (1938)
> : by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>
> There were many meaningless words used in scat songs in his day. My
> guess is the "floy" is a nonsense word. Ella used to do a lot of that.
OED says "floy" is an Americanism for "dirty". This is consistent with
the previously given interpretation of "venereal disease".
--
===========================================================================
Brice Wightman am...@freenet.carleton.ca
Ottawa, Canada VE3EDR
===========================================================================
Joel Glassman
>OED says "floy" is an Americanism for "dirty". This is consistent with
>the previously given interpretation of "venereal disease".
I missed the beginning of this thread, but I have read an interview with
Slim Gaillard who said the song was about a prostitute with a venereal
disease of some sort. An unusual topic for a swing era hit tune.
Joel
Tom Morgan
>Hmmm...guess I can stop trying to look up "Frim-Fram" and "Chifafa" in
>the dictionary ;-)
>(heh...maybe we need someone to compile a SCAT dictionary! :)))) )
There is an excellent African American Slang dictionary called "From
Juba to Jive" edited by Clarence Major for Penguin. $15 paperback in
the US.
D.C.I.
>>I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie"
(1938)
>>by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>>
>>What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
Tony Corman
>"Vout-Orooni."
Right - in fact, it is reported that, when Slim met Mickey Rooney he
asked Mickey "What's your last name?"
Santen/Livingstone
says...>: : I'm interested ina phrase found in the song, "Flat Fot Floogie"
>: : by Slim Gaillard, Slam Stewart, and Bud Green.
>
>: : What, in fact, is a "floy" or a "floy-floy" ?
Now this is really jazz nitty-gritty - I reckon that Gaillard was
stoned out of his mind and Flat Foot Floogie tried to floy hoy (fly
high) - but I didn't really understand that till I listened to it when I
was stoned too!
Ron santen
Meredith Lawrence
Brian D. Phillips <bph...@larry.cc.emory.edu> wrote:
>: "Floogie" is a variation of "floozy" or, a self-indulgent, predatory
>: woman. (Source: Dictionary of American Slang)
>
>: The song refers to a prostitute with flat feet.
Ohh. This is terrible. I've always wondered what all this meant, but I
sure hope that you aren't correct. I have a fifteen year old sister who
for some reason has been called since birth in by the family "Floogie".
My father gave it to her and it just kind of stuck (fortunatly it is not
on her birth certificate). I'm caught somewhere between laughing and
praying no one ever tells her this.
It always seemed so affectionate to me.
:)merry