Hard Bop Collection Needs Help (Top 50? Essential 25?)
Steve Crawford
Please help round out my hard bop CD collection! I've only been
seriously collecting hard bop CDs for a couple of years, and I feel that
it's somewhat skewed based on sale prices of CDs, availability of CDs in
clubs/stores, reissue schedules, and documentation/reviews on hard bop
CDs. I guess I'm searching for something like the "top 50 hard bop
albums of all time", or the "essential 25 hard bop albums", etc. Below
is a list of about 25 or so hard bop CDs that I've gotten and enjoyed
(there have only been a few that I didn't enjoy), in no particular
order. So, what am I missing?
Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else
Nat Adderley - Work Song
Art Blakey - The Big Beat
Art Blakey - Free For All
Art Blakey - Indestructible!
Art Blakey - Moanin'
Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin'
Sonny Clark - Leapin' And Lopin'
Lou Donaldson - Blues Walk
Kenny Dorham - Una Mas
Kenny Dorham - The Thing To Do
Kenny Drew - Undercurrent
Herbie Hancock - Best Of (Blue Note)
Joe Henderson - Page One
Jackie McLean - Bluesnik
Blue Mitchell - The Thing To Do
Hank Mobley - Best Of (Blue Note)
Hank Mobley - Soul Station
Lee Morgan - Cornbread
Lee Morgan - Sidewinder
Horace Silver - Best Of (Blue Note), Vol. 1
Horace Silver - Best Of (Blue Note), Vol. 2
Horace Silver - Song For My Father
Stanley Turrentine - Best Of (Blue Note)
Thanks for your input. All you rmb'ers have been an invaluable source
of information now that I've gotten the jazz bug.
Adam Schneit
Check out the old Phil Woods/Gene Quill albums. I don't know whether or
not these are normally put under the heading "hard bop" (which I guess
implied a return to blues and gospel sources as characterized in the music
of Blakey and Silver)- but they're certainly "hard" and they're certainly
"bop", and they're certainly fantastic.
Patrick Foley
Steve Crawford <ste...@intellimedia.com> wrote:
Hell of a start, certainly, and some records I haven't gotten yet in
there.
Easy things first: I like UGETSU (Blakey) and CAPE VERDEAN BLUES
(Silver) to go with the ones you alredy have.
The hard thing for me about this post is the definition of "hard bop",
because even in your list there's the beginnings of the New Thing, and
the mid to late 60s Blue Note sound -- and if you're going that way you
need more Hancock to start with, MAIDEN VOYAGE, TAKIN' OFF among others.
The latter has Dexter Gordon on tenor and you should definitely look
into his records too; OUR MAN IN PARIS is a nice set with Bud Powell's
trio, Dex does "Night in Tunisia" among others. If you like the
soul-jazz Horace Silver Blue Note sound and the incipient "free-er",
sort of post-Trane modal sound the Wayne Shorter edition of the Jazz
Messengers has, then definitely _run_ to the store and get Shorter's
ADAM'S APPLE. Fantastic. I have an Adderley record, NIPPON SOUL,
that's distinctively post-Trane and soul jazz all in one grabbag, nice
record, Joe Zawinul plays "Come Sunday", beautiful.
And where's Miles? Maybe you're just not thinking of his fifties
quintet as "hard bop", but maybe you should. And there again, the later
quintet with Shorter pushes that envelope. If you really haven't gotten
to Miles yet, at least try MILESTONES (and lots of others with Trane),
they go through "Straight, No Chaser" like a runaway freight train.
And what about Monk? Maybe it's defintion again, but a fifties-sixties
sort of collection has _got_ to have BRILLIANT CORNERS. And there's
MISTERIOSO and with Trane at the Five Spot.
And Trane! It's not exactly that soul-jazz sound, but man GIANT STEPS
and everything else on Atlantic just for starters! (I still don't have
many of his earlier records, but "Blue Train" has a riff Horace Silver
would envy.)
And then there's the tenor on BRILLIANT CORNERS, Sonny Rollins -- does
he count? NEWK'S TIME, SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS, LIVE AT THE VILLAGE
VANGUARD, another blistering version of "Night in Tunisia".
And that tune is on the grand-daddy of hard bop recordings, A NIGHT AT
BIRDLAND, Blakey & Silver and Sonny Rollins's sometime guardian angel,
Clifford Brown. How about the Brown/Roach/Rollins quintet? AT BASIN
STREET, say.
"Hard bop" gives you a center, and you can reach back from there and you
can also follow the music on into the sixties. Follow Joe Henderson.
Check out McCoy Tyner's THE REAL McCOY. Follow Jackie McLean onto NEW
SOIL and LET FREEDOM RING. Follow Trane and follow Miles at least as
far as the Plugged Nickel and you won't be disappointed.
And what do we do about Mingus? Is TIJUANA MOODS a hard bop album?
Kinda. BLUES & ROOTS? Kinda. Mingus has a lot to do with the emphasis
on blues and swing that's behind the later souljazz.
I'd like someone else to recommend hard bop records from the three
decades _after_ most of what's in this post.
Hope this wasn't a complete non-sequitur. You may already have more
straight hard bop than I do and less of the fringes...
Pat
Steve Crawford
>The hard thing for me about this post is the definition of "hard bop",
>because even in your list there's the beginnings of the New Thing, and
Since I'm kinda new to this, it's a little hard for me to distinguish
between "hard bop" and some of the jazz immediately before and after
(and during) it. For example, I have "Saxophone Colossus", "Giant
Steps", and "Kind Of Blue", but I bought them a long time ago (popular
first jazz albums, I guess) and don't really put them in the same
category as some of other albums that I listed. I guess what I mean by
"hard bop" is that kinda funky, kinda bluesy, late 50's/early 60's Blue
Note sound. I'm not sure I can offer any further description at this
point in my jazz-listening career -- maybe in another year. Any
listening tips for distinguishing between "hard bop" and its
predecessors/successors? I can sort of make a distinction between "hard
bop" and "soul jazz", and I like a lot of "soul jazz", too -- like John
Patton's "Blue John" and some of the other organ combos.
Again, thanks to all for your input.
Steve Carmichael
Steve Crawford wrote:
>
> >The hard thing for me about this post is the definition of "hard bop",
> >because even in your list there's the beginnings of the New Thing, and
A real good source of reading is David Rosenthal's book "Hard Bop".
Bebop was born out of swing, Hard Bop was the second wave of bebop. The
likes of Jackie McLean, John Coltrane, Mal Waldron, Sonny Rollins,Lee
Morgan, Max Roach and many others. In my personal opinion, Jackie McLean
is the badest of the hard boppers. He is one of (if not the) founding
fathers of hard bop.
Any way, read the book. It's a great work.
Steve
Frank Lepkowski
Steve Crawford (ste...@intellimedia.com) wrote:
: Please help round out my hard bop CD collection! I've only been
Don't miss Meet The Jazztet and Blues on Down also by the Jazztet,
usually filed under Art Farmer or Benny Golson. Also Curtis Fuller's
Bluesette. For those who have it, how much of the Mosaic Lee Morgan set
features Golson's writing and/or playing?
--
Frank Lepkowski Office: 810-370-2497
Associate Professor FAX: 810-370-2458
Kresge Library e-mail: lepk...@oakland.edu
Oakland University
Rochester, MI 48309-4401
Paul Heroy
In article <53tuav$e...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>, ste...@intellimedia.com
(Steve Crawford) wrote:
> Please help round out my hard bop CD collection!
In addition to the excellent suggestions contributed by others,
here's a list of some stuff I have and would recommend:
Brooks, Tina - True Blue
Brown, Clifford - Study In Brown
Brown, Clifford - At Basin Street
Burrell, Kenny - On View At the Five Spot Cafe
Davis, Miles - Steaming/Cooking/Relaxing/Working
Davis, Miles - Round About Midnight
Davis, Miles - 58 Sessions
Garland, Red - Soul Junction
Green, Grant - The Matador
Green, Grant - Idle Moments
Green, Grant - Solid
Griffin, Johnny - Introducing Johnny Griffin
Hubbard, Freddie - Hub Cap
Hubbard, Freddie - Ready For Freddie
Hubbard, Freddie - Hub-Tones
Land, Harold - West Coast Blues!
McLean, Jackie - Tippin' the Scales
Mobley, Hank - Workout
Mobley, Hank - No Room For Squares
Montgomery, Wes - The Incredible Jazz Guitar
Montgomery, Wes - Full House
Silver, Horace - Doin' the Thing - At the Village Gate
Silver, Horace - Cape Verdean Blues
Some of these may be hard to find as they're limited edition
Blue Notes - the Tina Brooks, for example. (For Tina Brooks,
the Kenny Burrell album above is a lot easier to find, though
he's not on all the tracks IIRC.) Red Garland made a string of
recordings for Prestige in the late 50's, mostly with Paul
Chambers on bass and either Art Taylor or Philly Joe Jones on
drums; some of these also include Coltrane, and of course all
of these folks played with Miles Davis in the mid 50's.
Also, I'll second the recommendation for David Rosenthal's book
_Hard Bop_; you should definitely pick this up if you're really
interested in this era. It traces the development of the music,
different sub-genres, and also social/cultural connections.
Paul Heroy <*>
paul_...@nt.com
AK...@worldnet.att.net
What, no Blakey?????
AKeys
Gregory Monahan
Re below request on hard bop, I've always considered the Clifford
Brown/Max Roach group to be the best post-Bird bop group of them all.
"Live at Basin Street" is my favorite record, but then I think it really
is worth having the "Complete Emarcy Recordings" a wonderful, rich,
music-packed multi-cd set. Spendy too.
Greg Monahan
Steve Crawford (ste...@intellimedia.com) wrote:
: Please help round out my hard bop CD collection! I've only been
: Thanks for your input. All you rmb'ers have been an invaluable source
--CmpSci 103b--
Steve I see your interest about hard bop. Could you tell some differences
between beebop and hard bop. I know you mentioned Cannonball Adderley,
what makes his style of hard bop differnt to Charlie Parker's style of
beebop. I'm working on an internet project that's due soon and my topic
is jazz. If you could give me some info. it will be much appreciated.
--------------
Omar Hernandez
cs1...@titan.fullerton.edu
---------------------------
Michael Polesky M.P.A.
Dear Omar,
Hard Bop is a difficult term to define. I believe that here the
reference is to what is also called "post-bop" and other terms. Not all
jazz historians see this period of music as being a "separate" trend and
I often define it in terms of different trends. I gather, without
putting worfs in anyone's mouth, that "hard bop" refers to the last half
of the 50's or so. The "generation" following Bird & Diz who started
recording bop in the late 40's and continued through the early
50's.
Cannonball Adderley would certainly need to be included in any
description of "hard bop" but he is generally considered the main
innovator in the "Soul & Funky" movement which came about during the very
late 50's and early 60's. Likewise, Trane would certainly fit the bill
as he was very active recording during this time, but he also went a
direction that was very much his own. In addition, I think the Lee
Morgan, Donald Byrd, Freddie Hubbard, Hank Mobley, Tina Brooks, Jackie
McClean, Kenny Drew, Hank Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Ar Taylor, Paul
Chambers, Mingus and many others would be considered "hard boppers" to
some degree by most standards. A number of these players can be
identified with the Bluenote record company and the "bluenote style" has
often been lnked to the distinctive style of the mid 50's as well.
Of course, jazz of all types (known till then) was being recorded
during this perios and the 60's was a great period for artists linked
with this style. In evaluating it in an historical manner, it is
important to note that the mainstream jazz innovators of the mid 50's to
early 60's went in two "general" and recognizable directions that
differed from the "original" bop style of just a few years earlier.
The most common stylistic difference between the early and late
50's was the "back to the blues" influence. The Boppers of the early
50's played and composed lots of blues, but the boppers of the late 50's
composed lots of non-blues form tunes that had a heavy reliance on the
blues as well. The Hank Mobley/Lee Morgan albums are a good example.
There is lots of "sporadic" use of latin and lots of "bluesy" lines.
This provided a platform for improvisation that was harmonically oriented
towards the blues in a greater portion of their music.
The early boppers played lots of "standards" and tunes "adapted"
from standard changes. Lots of harmonic motion was a common theme and
original compositions of that period often reflect that. The late 50's
saw a bigger reliance on the blues in place of these types of tunes.
I.e., the 12 bar blues made up a good percentage of the tunes for both
periods, but it was in the "rest" of the tunes that this change is
evident-particularly new compositions. By the end of the decade,
Cannonball brought this trend to a new height and the "soul & funky"
sound of the 60's was born. I believe he called it a penchant for the
"stone cold natural blues" on the album "Walking Tall".
Another trend that characterizes this time perios is the music of
Trane. Coltrane, like other jazz greats of the time, was not a strict
"bopper" if the term can have a definition. Be bop is usually defined as
having the rythmic characteristics that were common to the improvisation
styles of Bird & Dizzy. They had a particular rythm to their eighth
notes and certain other rythmic qualities tha characterize this style.
The players mentioned previously preferred rythmic styles of
improvisation that were heavily rooted in this tradition.
Trane and others I will mention below made lots of recordings
with boppers, but their style of improvisation was much more "enigmatic".
A different style all their own. The great players of this type were
all innovators. Trane's music and improvisational style; however,
profoundly changed people's conception of jazz. Trane wrote and played
lots of blues and many standards as well; however his particular harmonic
style led him to compose a nmuber of tunes that were very "modal" in
style. The "back to the blues" style was also moving in the direction of
"fewer chords" in the sense that it relied on the blues more than complex
harmonic changes (if there is such a thing). Trane explored other
avenues as well. New types of harmonic movements that were not as
commonly used previously such as in "Giant Steps" which is nearly an
"exercise" in this idea. Also, the natural rythms of harmonic "cadences"
(II, V, I's) were an element that Trane was able to manipulate. "Lazy
Bird" has some examples of both.
I think of the "back to the blues" trend as encompassing a
greater number of player, but the "modal" trend characterized best by
Trane as being more influential overall on jazz as music and jazz
players. It was truly more "innovative", although many of the same
things were accomplished by other players-just to a lesser extreme. Both
were ery important to the future innovations in jazz. In addition, it
should be added that no individual. including Bird, totally created a new
trend or style on their own. Bebop, for instance, marked a change in the
rythmic approach that encompassed the whole rythm section as well as the
"bop" improvisation style. Lots of individuals were involved in the
innovative process, but we tend to pick single individuals like Bird,
Cannonball, Trane or Ornette as the "leaders" of a style. This is just
for ease as they provide "classic" examples and were the first "complete"
performers of their art.
Among the other "enigmatic" players who were great innovators
there was Miles and Monk. Both had distinctive, individual rythmic and
harmonic styles to their improvisation that were not "exactly" bop in the
Bird or Diz sense of rythm. Both of these individuals were highly
influential as players and composers. They both brought some of the
great innovators like Trane into the main stream. Another example of an
"enigmatic" or highly individual, but yet main stream (maybe not-he is
not that well known) artist would be Herbie Nichols, who wrote "Lady
Sings the Blues". His playing style is really different yet it is
clearly great jazz. One great thing about Miles is that you can follow
his music and catch a glimpse of not just the trends mentioned here, but
lots of others as well. Miles was often the "first" to explore a new
field, whether of his own innovation or someone elses. His albums
reflect just about every style possible in a "timely" if not "ahead of
its time" fashion.
A quick note as to what came next. I talk about "less chords" or
"simpler harmonic movement" in places because the interest was to allow
the soloist more control over what was happening in the group. As a
result, harmony in the traditional sense began to be seen as
"constricting". It gave a natural rythm and form to the tune that
couldn't be changed (12 bars, 32 bars, 2 bras C, 4 bars G etc.). Ornette
and the avante garde movement sought to find a way to allow the rythm
section to improvise their parts in direct conjunction with the soloist
without any guidelines restricting their following his lead. As Ornette
put it recently, "the melody is not the lead--it's the person that is
performing the music that's the lead." I.e. soloist has total control
not the "form" of the tune. They traced this back to the inception of
bebop and its preference for small bands with an emphasis on the solos.
Improvisation was seen as the main artisitic "thrust" of jazz.
There are lots of things I left out and cerainly people to
mention, but I hope this gives you an idea of ONE, but no the only model
of jazz development after the bop period. I hope I don't get flamed too
bad for any bad dates or things I neglected, over-emphasized etc., but
there are lots of other good viewpoints as well an I am sure that you
will hear them soon. Good luck.
Michael
William Gowers
This message was from NEWC...@PACBELL.NET to ALL,
and was forwarded to you by WILLIAM GOWERS.
-------------------------
From: "Michael Polesky M.P.A." <NewC...@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Hard Bop Collection Needs Help (Top 50? Essential 25?)
Of course, jazz of all types (known till then) was being ing ided
Trane and others I will mention below made lots of of odings
Michael
---
* SLMR 2.1a * ???????????!?????????????!???????????????????!???????....
Colin Sutherill
Michael Polesky's long contribution to this thread included a long list of
names which nonetheless omitted the man I always took to be the archetypal
hard bopper: Sonny Rollins.
Colin
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
I can see leaving him off, although I don't take the exercise too seriously.
The rationale might be that Sonny is the culmination of the bop period, and
doesn't embody the "funk" obssesion that defines hard bop for me.
Michael Polesky M.P.A.
Boy, how COULD I forget Sonny. Sonny Rollins is really, perhaps,
the quintessential "hard bop" player. I would say that he participated
to some degree in EVERY change that took place. I did sort of "forget"
Sonny and it is sort of an omission. I think of Sonny as being great
with rythm in particular and he is truly my among my heros in all
aspects. I am glad I wasn't too badly "flamed" for other omissions, but
I had to let you know that Sonny deserves great love and attention. By
the way, I got his latest release. It has a very "modern" sort of
electric sound, but there is a lot of SONNY in it as well and I really
dig it.
Michael
Sheila D. Conway
this is my first time with a news group so please bear with me.
to me the different between hard bop and be-bop is mainly in the
construction of the songs. I think that this has alot to do with the
longer playing time on lp's.
Be-bop generally followed the pattern of; Unison in-chorus(theme),solo
choruses,maybe some fours and then the out chorus. Be-bop is compact,in-
tense. Even on live recordings made in the late 40's and early 50's
songs seldom ran over 5 minutes(jam sessions excluded).
Hard bop is an extension of Be-bop. But around it started taking on the
influence of Gosphel/soul music. With the availability of the LP,artist
opened up their playing. Unfortunately there was a down side to this. An
artist may record a 12 minute tune with only 5 mins. worth of ideas. The
upside to this is that Dexter Gordon could now record his 10 mins. of
ideas.
This is only a very simple answer. Not even complete. But it is my
beginnig.