'Round Midnight lyrics
Brian Dunbar
am refering to Andy Summers' CD "Green Chimneys", the T. Monk tribute.
Sting sings "'Round Midnight", and I see no credits for the lyrics. I
have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write them, Sting, or
someone else???
Brian
JAHBERO
writes:
> I
>have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write them, Sting, or
>someone else???
On the Larry Gales cd 'A Message To Monk', the lyrics of Round Midnight are
credited to Jon Hendricks. Excellent live session this with Claudio Roditi,
Steve Turre, Junior Cook, Benny Green, Larry Gales, Ben Riley.Gales look after
the lyrics on Midnight. I have not heard the Sting version, but would assume
they are the usual lyrics.
Jack Woker
>
> This is not meant to start any threads about this particular CD, but I
> am refering to Andy Summers' CD "Green Chimneys", the T. Monk tribute.
> have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write them, Sting, or
> someone else???
Although usually performed as an instrumental, there are lyrics which
were written by Bernie Hanighen. Two vocal versions which come to mind,
by Dakota Staton and Betty carter, both feature these lyrics.
jack
David Gascon
Carmen McRae also.
Richard Herrell
And Ella Fitzgerald.
Bruce LeClaire
Jack Woker wrote:
>
>
> Although usually performed as an instrumental, there are lyrics which
> were written by Bernie Hanighen.
My vocal book lists Monk, Williams & Hanighen as authors. I assume the
Williams is Cootie Williams. Does anyone know how he and Monk came up
with the song? And were any other of Monk's songs collaborative efforts?
--Bruce
Francois Ziegler
> My vocal book lists Monk, Williams & Hanighen as authors. I assume the
> Williams is Cootie Williams. Does anyone know how he and Monk came up
> with the song? And were any other of Monk's songs collaborative efforts?
I think it's the usual story - Monk composed it but Cootie, as leader of
the first group to record it (22 Aug 1944 with Bud Powell on piano), got
to add his name to the credits. Same for Epistrophy, first recorded by
Williams as "Fly Right (Monk-Clarke-Williams)", 1 Apr 1942. Both can be
heard e.g. on Classics 827 (Cootie Williams 1941-1944) - highly recommended.
Francois Z.
maple
<Pine.GSO.4.21.00021...@icarus.cc.uic.edu>,
Richard Herrell <rhe...@uic.edu> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Feb 2000, David Gascon wrote:
>
>> Jack Woker wrote:
>> >
>> > Brian Dunbar wrote:
>> > >
>> > > This is not meant to start any threads about this
particular CD, but I
>> > > am refering to Andy Summers' CD "Green Chimneys", the T.
Monk tribute.
>> > > Sting sings "'Round Midnight", and I see no credits for
the lyrics. I
>> > > have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write
them, Sting, or
>> > > someone else???
>> >
lyrics which
come to mind,
>> > by Dakota Staton and Betty carter, both feature these
lyrics.
>> > jack
>>
>> Carmen McRae also.
>>
>
>And Ella Fitzgerald.
Also polish jazz songstress Lora Szafran.
Juha Mikael Vaahtera
http://www.dlc.fi/~maple/
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Marc Sabatella
> > My vocal book lists Monk, Williams & Hanighen as authors. I assume
the
> > Williams is Cootie Williams. Does anyone know how he and Monk came
up
> > with the song?
>
> I think it's the usual story - Monk composed it but Cootie, as leader
of
> the first group to record it (22 Aug 1944 with Bud Powell on piano),
got
> to add his name to the credits.
For what it's worth, it has been claimed that Williams actually did have
a hand in writing the intro, although the "usual story" certainly is
plausible to. Or maybe it was the coda, although for some reason I
always assumed that was contributed by Dizzy Gillespie, perhaps because
Monk didn't record it (that I know of) until after Diz did, and because
it sounds so much like the bridge to "Con Alma". But actually, the
intro sounds a lot like a Dizzy line, too.
In any case, regarding the lyrics, the Hanighen lyrics are, I think, the
ones that start off "it begins to tell...". Seems I might have heard
Hendricks lyrics too, and they were different. I have no idea which
lyrics Sting might have sung.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my latest CD, "Second Course"
Available on Cadence Jazz Records
Also "A Jazz Improvisation Primer", Sound clips, Scores, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Jack Woker
> a hand in writing the intro, although the "usual story" certainly is
> plausible to. Or maybe it was the coda, although for some reason I
> always assumed that was contributed by Dizzy Gillespie,
Williams' original recording (8/22/44) does not contain the familiar
intro and coda to which we are all accustomed. This first appeared on
Dizzy's recording (2/6/46). I don't think Williams had anything to do
with its creation, and it's probably the "usual story".
jack
Rmidn...@webtv.net
Minton's and leaving a cloudy memory as to who played the notes first.
2) I was surprised to find the words so good. Being a newbie of a few
years, I loved the tune (as my email address shows) before I heard there
even were words. 3) Who is B. Gonzales, and what is he doing in the
credits to the song on my Betty Carter Round Midnight lp? Roulette
SR-59065 It lists - T.Monk - B.Gonzales - Cootie Williams - Bernie
Hanighen PB
Steve Mack
> Francois Ziegler <zie...@math.yale.edu> wrote:
>
> > > My vocal book lists Monk, Williams & Hanighen as authors. I assume
> the
> > > Williams is Cootie Williams. Does anyone know how he and Monk came
> up
> > > with the song?
> >
> > I think it's the usual story - Monk composed it but Cootie, as leader
> of
> > the first group to record it (22 Aug 1944 with Bud Powell on piano),
> got
> > to add his name to the credits.
>
> For what it's worth, it has been claimed that Williams actually did have
> a hand in writing the intro, although the "usual story" certainly is
> plausible to. Or maybe it was the coda, although for some reason I
> always assumed that was contributed by Dizzy Gillespie, perhaps because
> Monk didn't record it (that I know of) until after Diz did, and because
> it sounds so much like the bridge to "Con Alma". But actually, the
> intro sounds a lot like a Dizzy line, too.
Leslie Gourse wrote in her biography of Monk that in fact it was the "usual
story." Cootie wanted to record it and Monk agreed to allow his name be
credited. Coincidentally, Cootie was paid all the royalties for 'Round
Midnight for many years. In fact, I think it might not have been
straightened out until after Monk died.
--
Smack
"Good jazz is when the leader jumps on the piano, waves his arms, and yells.
Fine jazz is when a tenorman lifts his foot in the air. Great jazz is when
he heaves a piercing note for 32 bars and collapses on his hands and knees.
A pure genius of jazz is manifested when he and the rest of the orchestra
run around the room while the rhythm section grimaces and dances around
their instruments." -Charles Mingus
Michael Fitzgerald
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>For what it's worth, it has been claimed that Williams actually did have
>a hand in writing the intro, although the "usual story" certainly is
>plausible to. Or maybe it was the coda, although for some reason I
>always assumed that was contributed by Dizzy Gillespie, perhaps because
>Monk didn't record it (that I know of) until after Diz did, and because
>it sounds so much like the bridge to "Con Alma". But actually, the
>intro sounds a lot like a Dizzy line, too.
It's always been my understanding that the intro and coda were both
contributed by Dizzy - check how he uses this in his version of I
Can't Get Started.
>In any case, regarding the lyrics, the Hanighen lyrics are, I think, the
>ones that start off "it begins to tell...". Seems I might have heard
>Hendricks lyrics too, and they were different. I have no idea which
>lyrics Sting might have sung.
Yes, Hendricks did a version based on the Miles version. Carmen McRae
sang BOTH on her Monk album.
Mike
Bruce LeClaire
1949) while I was in Davis Sq. tonight (you know, the Paris of the 90's
--IGAKOT). Anyways, it seems that he puts a knock on Monk in the book,
and admits as much in the '77 intro. If I might quote a couple of
paragraphs:
"In the last category ['pretty' tunes with unusual chord changes] was
'Round Midnight, written by Thelonius Monk, a pianist who frequented
Minton's. Monk's place in the jazz scene, according to most musicians in
the bop movement, has been grossly distorted, as a result of some
high-powered publicity work. He has written a few attractive tunes, but
his lack of technique and continuity prevented him from accomplishing
much as a pianist. In fact, Cootie Williams' original 1944 recording of
'Round Midnight arranged for a big band, is vastly superior to Monk's
own recording as an interpretation of the theme. Monk, who has been
touted as a 'genius' and a 'high priest of bebop', would wander in and
out of Minton's, often falling asleep at the piano. 'He'd stay there for
hours after the place closed', says Teddy Hill, 'or get there hours
before we opened. Sometimes the musicians would appeal to me to see if I
could wake him up. Suddenly he might wake up and go into some intricate,
tricky little passage, with Kenny Clarke playing those funny off-beat
effects on the bass drum.
... but it cannot be too strongly emphasized, for the benefit of those
hear him in person or on records, that he is not a bebop pianist, nor do
his solos have any of the mystic qualities attributed to them by some
non-musical admirers. ... Monk was a teacher, a creator rather than a
soloist."
That's incredible to read, wow. As they say, never trust a man who
wears a bow-tie! The book's a great read nonetheless, plus it has a lot
of great photos (on unnumbered pages).
And Clarke is reported as claiming to have come up with Epistrophy while
screwing around on a ukulele!
--Bruce
IGAKOT- I get a kick outta that.
Ulf Åbjörnsson
arrangement" it was his tune, so he put himself on the list for royalties!
;-))
Ulf in Svedala
Steve Mack <sm...@escape.com> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:38A7712B...@escape.com...
Leo Scanlon
Carmen McRae, Ella, and "polish jazz songstress Lora Szafran". To my
ears, Julie London's rendition holds its own with any of the others.
Leo
Jack Woker
> 1949) while I was in Davis Sq. tonight (you know, the Paris of the 90's
> --IGAKOT). Anyways, it seems that he puts a knock on Monk in the book,
> and admits as much in the '77 intro.
I've always felt that, for all his accomplishments, Monk is not really a
"bebopper", at least not as Diz and Bird were. He came on the scene at
the same time as they did, but always seems to have gone his own way.
I imagine Feather's opinion of Monk may have risen in the years between
when the book was written in 1949 and when it was reprinted in the
1977. FWIW, Feather knocks many early jazz pioneers such as Johnny
Dodds and Jelly Roll Morton in "The Encyclopedia of Jazz". I guess he's
entitled to his opinion.
jack
Jack Woker
> 3) Who is B. Gonzales, and what is he doing in the
> credits to the song on my Betty Carter Round Midnight lp? Roulette
> SR-59065 It lists - T.Monk - B.Gonzales - Cootie Williams - Bernie
> Hanighen
Presumably it is Babs Gonzales. Why he is credited is in unknown to me.
jack
Michael Fitzgerald
>Who is B. Gonzales, and what is he doing in the
>credits to the song on my Betty Carter Round Midnight lp? Roulette
>SR-59065 It lists - T.Monk - B.Gonzales - Cootie Williams - Bernie
Babs Gonzales, certainly, who was a singer and lyricist. I guess
that's yet another set of lyrics.
Like we did with Body and Soul, could we compile and post all of the
different sets?
Mike
Michael Fitzgerald
Here are the Hanighen, Hendricks and Gonzales lyrics.
First up is the set by Bernie Hanighen. These words are the most
commonly used and the official ones as far as the publisher goes. The
Ella Fitzgerald and Sting versions use these -
It begins to tell 'round midnight, 'round midnight
I do pretty well 'til after sundown
Suppertime, I'm feelin' sad
But it really gets bad 'round midnight
Mem'ries always start 'round midnight, 'round midnight
Haven't got the heart to stand those memories
When my heart is still with you
And old midnight knows it too
- BRIDGE -
When some quarrel we've had needs mending
Does that mean that our love is ending?
Darling, I need you; lately I find
You're out of my arms and I'm out of my mind
Let our love take wing 'round midnight, 'round midnight
Let the angels sing of your returning
Let our love be safe and sound
When old midnight comes around
Next is the set by Jon Hendricks:
- INTRO -
A pale and lonely moon lights the sky in the dark before the dawn
I sit here in my room; how I sigh for the day that's come and gone
Another lonely day passes by and a new day's coming on
At midnight
Tears I've shed today will pause, waiting until tomorrow
Dreams of what could be come close to me, timidly
There's a brand new day in sight
At that time 'round midnight
Life's a game of chance and you're one of the minor players
Look for what you love: the day to come, harbor some
Let your spirit stop the fight
At that time 'round midnight
- BRIDGE -
Ev'ry day's gonna bring some sadness
Ev'ry day's gonna bring some gladness
So take what you can of the glad times
Don't measure your pleasure in nickels and dimes
(You'd better) look back on the day and you know when you've been
unhappy
Fears dawn chased away just might at night have their day
Let your eyes put out their light
At that time 'round midnight
- CODA -
I'll think no more about today
For in a while this old day will be yesterday
Alone at midnight here in my room
I sit here in the gloom
And let my dreams take flight 'round 'bout midnight
"Carmen [McRae] does Monk's evergreen 'Round Midnight, capturing the
strengths of Bernie Hanighen's original words over [pianist Eric]
Gunnison's spare accompaniment. Then she embroiders a second chorus
with Jon Hendricks' lyrics, woven together with the touching intro and
coda that Dizzy Gillespie first applied to it." - Stuart Troup, liner
notes to "Carmen Sings Monk" RCA/Novus 3086-2-N, 1990
On this CD, the song is credited to "Thelonious Monk/Bernie
Hanighen/C. Williams" - no mention of Hendricks at all. Possibly due
to a legal situation.
Robert Wyatt recorded the above Hendricks lyrics on his 1982 album
"Nothing Can Stop Us". I don't believe he used the intro or coda.
Hendricks has written another variant based on the Miles Davis
Columbia recording, complete with words to Coltrane's solo. I've just
listened to it - from a live tribute to Monk concert (Jon plays the
role of Coltrane and Judith Hendricks is Miles Davis) and I can only
get a few words here and there. It's based on the Hendricks lyrics
above, but with changes - just as Miles paraphrased Monk's melody. The
intro is different and so is most of the rest, but the coda and first
A are pretty close.
The Babs Gonzales lyrics appear on the 1956 date he did with Jimmy
Smith for Blue Note. Originally a 45 rpm single, this is also on the
CD "Weird Lullaby" CDP 7 84464-2, 1992.
When the day has turned to evening, baby
And the stars come out to show their magic
That's the time you feel so lonesome
It's so strange and it's blue at midnight
There are those whose dreams are shattered, mama
Some who search in vain for long lost romance
Some who walk the city's canyons
Hoping they'll get one more chance
- BRIDGE -
When your life seems it's not worth living
And the world seems it's unforgiving
Now I have found travelling around
It's often been told, don't lose your soul
There may be a new tomorrow, baby
You may find a love to hold you, spellbound
Then you'll always be so happy
When old midnight comes around
Betty Carter may have recorded the Gonzales lyrics, but I can't
confirm that at this time.
Mike
Bruce LeClaire
Jack Woker wrote:
> [...]
>
> I imagine Feather's opinion of Monk may have risen in the years between
> when the book was written in 1949 and when it was reprinted in the
> 1977. FWIW, Feather knocks many early jazz pioneers such as Johnny
> Dodds and Jelly Roll Morton in "The Encyclopedia of Jazz". I guess he's
> entitled to his opinion.
>
Reading Feather's book is like taking a trip backwards in time, you get
the feeling that bebop is still struggling for legitimacy.
Here's what he says about Monk in his '77 intro:
"Thelonius, by the way, was given rather short shrift in the book; on
the other hand, he was later overpraised by fanatical supporters. The
truth about Monk lies halfway between the unjust early derogation and
subsequent cult-like hero worship."
He also describes some of the early beboppers who went MIA from jazz,
either by retiring, switching professions, or in the case of Miles
"(sidelined by rock)".
--Bruce
[By the way Michael, thanks for the great post.]
It Never Entered My Mind
> Who is B. Gonzales, and what is he doing in the
>credits to the song on my Betty Carter Round Midnight lp?
Paul Gonzales ?
DOUG NORWOOD
Also by Mel Torme and many many others. There are also alternate lyrics
which were sung - and presumably written - by Babs Gonzales.
DougN
Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:38a7d364...@news.erols.com...
Howard Peirce
> Reading Feather's book is like taking a trip backwards in time, you get
> the feeling that bebop is still struggling for legitimacy.
>
> Here's what he says about Monk in his '77 intro:
>
> "Thelonius, by the way, was given rather short shrift in the book; on
> the other hand, he was later overpraised by fanatical supporters. The
> truth about Monk lies halfway between the unjust early derogation and
> subsequent cult-like hero worship."
That's kind of a weasely truism, though, isn't it? Doesn't the "truth" about
*everybody* lie somewhere between derogation and worship? In light of
frequent rmb threads, you could say the same thing about musicians as
diverse as Armstrong, Coltrane, Kenny G, and Wynton Marsalis.
Not Ellington, though. He is my cult-like hero, and I worship him. :-)
HP
--who spent all day Sunday with the 1929 version of "The Mooche" (the one
where Williams replaces Miley) on repeat play.
Nicolay Shienok
I have cd JAZZ A SAINT-GERMAIN (1997, Virgin France ) where this song
(Autour De Minuit) is performed by Les Nubians. The credits are: Cootie
Williams/Bernard Hanighen/Thelonious Monk (French lyrics: Claude Nougaro).
Peace,
Nicolay Shienok
Simon Weil
>> "Thelonius, by the way, was given rather short shrift in the book; on
>> the other hand, he was later overpraised by fanatical supporters. The
>> truth about Monk lies halfway between the unjust early derogation and
>> subsequent cult-like hero worship."
>
>That's kind of a weasely truism, though, isn't it? Doesn't the "truth" about
>*everybody* lie somewhere between derogation and worship? In light of
>frequent rmb threads, you could say the same thing about musicians as
>diverse as Armstrong, Coltrane, Kenny G, and Wynton Marsalis.
The *balance of two competing positions* lies somewhere between the two. Monk
and compromise had nothing to do with one and another. He believed in his
vision absolutely, that's how he got to do what he did. In my opinion, either
you go along with that vision or you don't.
Simon Weil
DOUG NORWOOD
At the time of Monk's earliest recordings (the Blue Notes), he was almost
universally dismissed by the jazz press, even those writers sympathetic to
the emergence of bebop such as Feather and the reviewers at Metronome.
It was several years before he was taken seriously and probably not before
he began his series of recordings for Riverside that
the realization of his true worth took place. I tend to agree with Jack
Woker that Monk was never a bebopper - he was merely present at the same
time and place when bebop developed and was associated with musicians who
were boppers.
The first Monk I heard (aside from his short solos on the Hawkins Joe Davis
recordings) was "I Mean You" with Bags. My reaction was "That's the last
we'll ever hear of THIS guy!" Pretty much the same thing I said the first
time I heard Sonny Rollins (on Babs Gonzales Capitol recordings).
See why I can't get a job on the Psychic Hot Line?
DougN
Marc Sabatella
> Problem for me is when I got it I was
> disapointed cause I expected the Hanigan lyrics and haven't listened
to
> it since. I would have answered my own question about who is B
Gonzales
> if i had. Funny tho, it lists both Gonzales and Hanigan on the lp.
This is customary, since Hanighen's lyrics are the official ones. The
copyright office recognizes Hanighen as co-composer of the tune, so his
name should really appear on all recordings of the tune, whether or not
his (or any) lyrics are included. Just as, for example, even instrument
versions of "Stella, By Starlight" credit and pay royalties to Ned
Washington.
Glen Alpert
NORWOOD" <DOUG_N...@prodigy.net> wrote:
I simply can not pass up the chance to use my standard psychic joke
which I am determined to use at every opportunity:
"I knew you were going to say that."
--Glen
Blue Lake
noticed in the first few messages of this thread that they're missing Bab
Gonzales lyrics to Round Midnight which seem to be more poignant in their
city images and soul searching urban loneliness than the more commercially
available versions by the divas.
Lazaro Vega
Blue Lake Public Radio
Brian Dunbar <bdu...@rcia.com> wrote in message
news:38a629d2...@news.rcia.com...
> This is not meant to start any threads about this particular CD, but I
> am refering to Andy Summers' CD "Green Chimneys", the T. Monk tribute.
> Sting sings "'Round Midnight", and I see no credits for the lyrics. I
> have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write them, Sting, or
> someone else???
> Brian
Bruce LeClaire
Jack Woker wrote:
>
> I've always felt that, for all his accomplishments, Monk is not really a
> "bebopper", at least not as Diz and Bird were. He came on the scene at
> the same time as they did, but always seems to have gone his own way.
>
Hmmm, I can see why you wouldn't what to group Monk with anyone other
then himself, I also believe him as one of the most unique musicians I
ever heard (together with Hendrix).
But to me, he will always be a bopper. Think "Bemsha Swing". And he
didn't just come on the scene with the rest, he made the scene (i.e.
played with all the greats). And of course he wrote the official bop
anthem, "52th Street". And didn't he help teach Bud how to loosen up and
swing (they were great friends apparently). And finally, and most
definitively, didn't he wear the glasses and beret uniform of the
beboppers?
Now I did find a quote in my research where Monk reportly said that "he
was going to invent his own style" after some misunderstanding with the
core beboppers. And I also saw another quote to the effect of Monk
himself saying "I'm no bebop player".
This and lots of other good stuff can be found in L. Gourse's book
"Straight, No Chaser":
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028650328/qid=950753371/sr=1-18/104-8711001-3334868
RE: 'Round Midnight
The above book tells it this way... Cootie Williams wanted to record the
song and gave Monk a $300 advance to be listed as co-writer. Apparently,
the common pratice of the day was for the record companies to pay
royalities only to the leader of the session, and so Monk never got a
penny for the song till 4 years later. That's when Alfred Lion at Blue
Note records interceeded on Monk's behalf.
Just for fun here's some excerpts from a 1963 interview that Monk gave
to Dance magazine:
Q: Aside from NYC and LA where in the US would you prefer to live?
A: The Moon.
[...]
Q: What's the greatest need in music today?
A: Better players and better listeners.
Q: What's your greatest ambition?
A: To play better.
[...]
--Cheers, Bruce
Bruce LeClaire
Howard Peirce wrote, when referring to Feather's comments about Monk:
>
> That's kind of a weasely truism, though, isn't it?
I think so. I don't know what kind of ego LF had, but I imagine it was
fairly big. Leslie Gourse pretty much quotes the exact passages I quoted
in her(?) book "Straight, No Chaser". I suspect he know he got it wrong
but didn't want to totally 'fess up. Or perhaps he never dug Monk. I
wonder...
Check out the beginning of his '77 intro [2nd para]:
"Inside Jazz has become probably the most quoted book in jazz history.
Perhaps *plagiarized* would be a better word, for whole passages [...]
have been printed [...] wo credit".
I don't really know too much about Feather's role in the music
historically, so I'll reserve comment. [By the way, he appeared on the
Ella bio on A&E].
--Bruce
Leo Scanlon
<bw...@mindspring.com> wrote about Thelonious Monk:
>But to me, he will always be a bopper. Think "Bemsha Swing". And he
>didn't just come on the scene with the rest, he made the scene (i.e.
>played with all the greats). And of course he wrote the official bop
>anthem, "52th Street".
Huh? I never heard of any such tune. 52nd Street had a lot of the
clubs where these cats *played*. There may be a tune by that name,
but it isn't the bop anthem, official or unofficial. "How High the
Moon" is often referred to as the bop anthem.
Leo
Ulf Åbjörnsson
now I can't recall a/ how it goes, b/ where or c/ with whom.
I'll look through my archive and see what I can come up with.
Ulf in Svedala
Leo Scanlon <lsca...@erols.com> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:38abc6df...@news.erols.com...
Jack Woker
>
> But to me, he will always be a bopper. Think "Bemsha Swing". And he
> didn't just come on the scene with the rest, he made the scene (i.e.
> played with all the greats).
Of course, Monk was in New York at the inception of bebop. In a broad
sense, one would have to include him as having played an important role
in the developing scene at the time, having written "'Round Midnight"
and "52nd Street Theme", both recorded by the quintessential bebopper,
Dizzy Gillespie. Still, I feel that Monk's music is outside the bebop
axis. By this I mean the specific "code" phrases that permeate so many
recordings of that era are not part of Monk's musical world.
>And of course he wrote the official bop
> anthem, "52th Street".
Might you be confusing this with another tune, "The Theme", with which
Art Blakey and others often ended thier sets? I don't think Monk's tune
can be considered an anthem.
jack
Marc Sabatella
> Still, I feel that Monk's music is outside the bebop
> axis. By this I mean the specific "code" phrases that permeate so
many
> recordings of that era are not part of Monk's musical world.
While I am in general agreement, I find that Monk's style seemed to be
oddly *compatible* with that of the more typical boppers, in a way that
some other pianists who occassionally worked with them wasn't (Teddy
Wilson, Errol Garner come to mind). I also hear elements of bebop-style
phrasing in Monk's playing, although filtered through Monk's persona, it
often doesn't come out sounding like bebop. Mostly, I think, because
Monk tended to play shorter lines, with more space between them, it
seems to me. Still, a line like "Well, You Needn't" sounds inherently
boppish to me.
> >And of course he wrote the official bop
> > anthem, "52th Street".
>
> Might you be confusing this with another tune, "The Theme", with which
> Art Blakey and others often ended thier sets? I don't think Monk's
tune
> can be considered an anthem.
The impression I get is that "52nd Street Theme" is a tune that was
played much more often during the 50's than it is today. FWIW, I first
heard it on an album by Oscar Peterson, someone not exactly known as a
Monk fan (and vice versa, of course). But for whatever reason, while
other Monk tunes, and for that mater Bird/Diz tunes (of which "52nd" is
more reminiscent) continue to be covered over and over again, people
seem to have abandoned this one.
Bruce LeClaire
Jack Woker wrote:
>
> Bruce LeClaire wrote:
> >
>
> >And of course he wrote the official bop anthem, "52th Street".
>
> Might you be confusing this with another tune, "The Theme", with which
> Art Blakey and others often ended thier sets? I don't think Monk's tune
> can be considered an anthem.
> jack
Nope- I have about 4 versions of this song in my collection. The correct
title is "52nd Street Theme" (thanks Marc). In its day it was the bebop
anthem- in the sense that it was quite often used for intro/outro during
sets (you'll find it blended with many recorded live tunes for that
reason). For those with real audio you can find a sample of the head at:
It's played by Bud Powell, who I think we all agree was a bop pianist.
(But I'm sticking by my guns as concerns Monk.)
I remember it best as an intro from a recording of the Metronome contest
radio broadcast of 1947. I have credits for Monk/Clarke on that and
Monk/J.J. Robbins on another, and online I found one with Cahn/Chaplin.
Hmmm... grew out of the Minton jams I wager.
Gotta run,
--Bruce
(And yes, the quintessential bop tune probably was based on "How High
the Moon". Or was it "I Got Rhythm"? Or maybe the blues. That covers the
majority of the tunes anyways.)
Steve Mack
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:37:18 -0500, Bruce LeClaire
> <bw...@mindspring.com> wrote about Thelonious Monk:
>
> >But to me, he will always be a bopper. Think "Bemsha Swing". And he
> >didn't just come on the scene with the rest, he made the scene (i.e.
> >played with all the greats). And of course he wrote the official bop
> >anthem, "52th Street".
>
> Huh? I never heard of any such tune. 52nd Street had a lot of the
> clubs where these cats *played*. There may be a tune by that name,
> but it isn't the bop anthem, official or unofficial. "How High the
> Moon" is often referred to as the bop anthem.
>
> Leo
The song definitely exists. It's based on "Rhythm" changes, and was
played a lot during the bebop days. I've had to play it many times,
though I don't have any recording of it (I'm pretty sure Bird recorded it
atleast once).
--
Smack
"Good jazz is when the leader jumps on the piano, waves his arms, and
yells. Fine jazz is when a tenorman lifts his foot in the air. Great jazz
is when he heaves a piercing note for 32 bars and collapses on his hands
and knees. A pure genius of jazz is manifested when he and the rest of
the orchestra run around the room while the rhythm section grimaces and
dances around their instruments." -Charles Mingus
Rmidn...@webtv.net
the live cd with bits of 15 songs, 3 are the 52nd st. theme. This was
recorded by a fan who saved the tape for Birds playing, hence 'the bits'
PB
Bruce LeClaire
DOUG NORWOOD wrote:
>
> The first Monk I heard (aside from his short solos on the Hawkins Joe Davis
> recordings) was "I Mean You" with Bags. My reaction was "That's the last
> we'll ever hear of THIS guy!" Pretty much the same thing I said the first
> time I heard Sonny Rollins (on Babs Gonzales Capitol recordings).
>
> See why I can't get a job on the Psychic Hot Line?
>
[I got a good chuckle from the above.]
I remember the first time I heard Bird. I was back from college and
visiting a friend who I had played with in stage band. He was going to
Berklee and was very excited about me hearing this bop stuff.
Well, I didn't get it at all. What did Armstrong call it... Chinese
music? Too many notes, too fast. It just went right by me. It was until
years later when I was trying to learn to play again that I rediscovered
it. [So, there's still hope for the poster who didn't really like "Kinda
Blue" on the first listening!]
--Bruce
Bruce LeClaire
Damon Short wrote:
>
> Dexter was standing nearby chatting with someone else; maybe you had to
> be there, but it was a priceless moment when he slowly turned around,
> feigned shock and said in that wonderful baritone, 'CHINESE music!?!?'
>
[Hanging out with Dexter in NY, what a lucky guy!]
Well, guess what I did today? I went to Newton Library and heard a
concert of Chinese music!
Yes indeed, a whole program by pianist Li Fan entitled "East Meets West"
(isn't that a program on the food channel-- oh never mind). Just for the
record, I enjoyed the show very much, despite the population density
being higher than Hong Kong's.
[BS-alert, I could be quite mistaken in the following.]
It's very interesting the way so much of Chinese music is based on
pentatonic scales (somewhat like many modern jazz songs, different
scales to be sure, but still pentatonic). Where is the jazz connection?
Well, much of traditional Chinese music utilizes microtones which the
piano doesn't accommodate directly. But Li Fan utilized an ornamentation
technique of "clusters" which approximates the microtones. Now I once
saw a TV show about jazz pianists hosted by Chick Corea where he
discussed similar issues. In particular, he mentioned the challenge of
jazz pianists to be able to distort the tonal center of the
even-tempered scale, especially for the blues feel. I remember him
demonstrating his technique of slurring two notes a half tone apart to
do this.
For me, prior to his demonstration, I never thought of a grace note as
being similar to a half-valve effect on a trumpet. But he was right, the
piano, the paradigm ($5 word alert!) of the even-tempered scale, can
play blues. And today I heard another application of this, in a totally
different context.
--Bruce (who does like Chinese music if the truth be known).
Listening Recommendation: The following contains sounds which are
utterly amazing, very traditional music. I first acquired this tape from
a mainland Chinese co-worker about 10 years ago. I believe the
instrument names are in ()'s.
Treasury of Chinese Music Vol. I Wind Instruments
1. Suzhou Scenery (Di-Qudi)
2. Youngguan Melody (Guanzi-Single Guanzi)
3. Birds Adoring the Phoenix (Suana)
4. Plum Blossom (Xiao)
5. Abyss of Misery (Guanzi-Double Guanzi)
6. Phoenix (Sheng)
7. Three Tang Melodies (Xun & percussion)
8. Fisherman's Song (Bauu)
Unfortunately, apart from 3 billion other people in this world I may be
the only person who has this album. And if pushed I will claim that the
above is even jazz.
Tom Walls
says...
>
Good story!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Rmidn...@webtv.net
trumpet I feel my jazz ears are getting better. One of the things that
strikes me about this song is that with I have never heard a good solo
on it. I have heard some that start out good then it appears the farther
they get from the basic tune, the weaker they get. Myself, I can only
add a few notes here and there. Do you think it is a testament to the
song being so powerful? or my ears need more education, any
recommendations on someone who has added a nice solo? thanks, PB
Marcel-Franck Simon
: Damon Short wrote:
: >
: > Dexter was standing nearby chatting with someone else; maybe you had to
: > be there, but it was a priceless moment when he slowly turned around,
: > feigned shock and said in that wonderful baritone, 'CHINESE music!?!?'
: >
: [Hanging out with Dexter in NY, what a lucky guy!]
Dex was a wonderful human being. My (single) encounter with him left
me with an indelible memory. It was a weeknight at the Vanguard in the
early 80s, between sets, quite a few people there, but the place was
not packed. I'm walking out of the bathroom and there's Dexter standing
there having a cigarette. I shake his hand, thank him for the set and
as I'm about to walk back to my seat I say to him "Man I wish I could
sit with you and talk for hours." So he says with that wonderfully
expressive handwave, "say man, I got some time. Buy me a drink!"
I bought him a beer and we chatted till it was time for the next set.
He made mild fun of my thunderstruck incoherence, until I could put
together a sentence or two, IIRC about his time living in Europe, and
particularly Copenhagen. He winkingly said something sorta like "well,
you know man, the women are very pretty there, so I figured I'd stay
a while, you know what I mean." He also said something semi-serious
about European bassists (fine) and drummers (not so fine.)
I asked him if he had family in the States, and whether they were with
him in Europe. He said much of his family had distanced itself from
him during his "hard years", which I took to mean his time on heroin in
the 50s. Remembering this, I found his line in the movie "Round Midnight"
that his (movie) daughter "is like a stranger to me, and it's too late
to fix it" especially poignant.
Then it was time for the next set. He said, "well man, gotta get back
to the salt mines", with a wink and a smile, and went to get his horn.
I'll never forget this incredible gift he gave me, of his time and his
warmth as a human being.
--
Marcel-Franck Simon Hewlett Packard
"Papa Loko, ou se' van, wa pouse'-n ale' Florham Park, NJ
Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe'" min...@fpk.hp.com
Howard Peirce
> Well, guess what I did today? I went to Newton Library and heard a
> concert of Chinese music!
> Yes indeed, a whole program by pianist Li Fan entitled "East Meets West"
> (isn't that a program on the food channel-- oh never mind). Just for the
> record, I enjoyed the show very much, despite the population density
> being higher than Hong Kong's.
I dug out Fred Ho's "Monkey, Part Two" this weekend and gave it another
listen. Completely enjoyable jazz/Beijing opera fusion. Ho is doing really
exciting things with jazz and Chinese music, and is a hell of a bari sax
player as well. The album is on Koch.
HP
Paul Heroy
I've got a copy of another of Ho's recordings (I forget which) and
really like a lot of what he does. I remember listening to Monkey in a
store and really liking some of the music, but not digging the vocals
at all because it just seemed too big of a jump for my ears (I'm not a
big vocals fan, and not that familiar with traditional Chinese or other
Asian musics). I've heard a little bit of other things and liked them,
though, so I'm interested in getting other recommendations.
As an aside on Asian music in a totally different vein, I've noticed in
many Chinese restaurants that Kenny G is the music of choice. I've
wondered about that -- whether it's just an appeal to "American tastes"
using someone popular, or whether there are other reasons he's played --
and remembered a conversation a couple of years ago with someone I met
who's really into Chinese music. He noted that sentimentality and
sweetness run strong in much of the music; is it possible that these
qualities make Kenny G appealing to Chinese sensibilities?
--
Paul Heroy <*> It's yahoo, not hooya.
Howard Peirce
> As an aside on Asian music in a totally different vein, I've noticed in
> many Chinese restaurants that Kenny G is the music of choice.
D'ya ever walk into an Chinese restaurant at a non-peak hour, say, 3:00 in the
afternoon, and there's some kind of pop music playing, like rock, or easy
listening, or country, and as soon as the host seats you, he disappears for a
moment, there's a click, and then the PA starts playing traditional Chinese
music? I always get a kick out of that. Heck, I'd rather listen to traditional
Chinese music than slick American pop anyway.
Other "ethnic restaurant" music favorites: Bhangra and Bollywood at the Indian
restaurants; Mexican polka.
HP
Tom Walls
>
>Paul Heroy wrote:
>
>> As an aside on Asian music in a totally different vein, I've noticed in
>> many Chinese restaurants that Kenny G is the music of choice.
>
>D'ya ever walk into an Chinese restaurant at a non-peak hour, say, 3:00 in
the
>afternoon, and there's some kind of pop music playing, like rock, or easy
>listening, or country, and as soon as the host seats you, he disappears for a
>moment, there's a click, and then the PA starts playing traditional Chinese
>music? I always get a kick out of that. Heck, I'd rather listen to
traditional
>Chinese music than slick American pop anyway.
Some of my co-workers are Tibetan and I hear a wide variety of Tibetan,
Chinese, and Indian recordings. They range from traditional to high
production pop. One particular standout: a Chinese disco version of "Davey
Crockett".
Charles H Berg
I had a similar happy happenstance happen (ouch!) to me.....
Was on tour with Les Miserables Brass Band doing the Knee Plays with
David Byrne. Band had done a clinic at UCLA ethno dept., and
returning to the Hotel Roosevelt where we were staying found the staff
to be seriously sprucing up the huge lobby, and heard a band reheasing
in the ballroom. We figured it was a wedding band warming up, so we
went into the ballroom to say hi. Imagine our surprise when we
discovered that the "wedding band" consisted of Herbie Hancock, Ndugu
Chancler, Charlie Haden, Bobby Hutcherson, a sax player, Patrice
Rushen, and tall beautiful middle aged woman draped over the grand
piano that was Nancy Wilson. After we picked up various jaws off the
floor (this being a brass band, they were needed later for the gig),
our sax player Matt Darriau went over to say hello to Haden, with whom
he had studied. We all followed (meekly). As we were talking to
Haden, the sax player came over and introduced himself: "Hi, I'm Tom
Scott." We asked what was up. Scott replied "It's the opening for
the movie "Round Midnight. You guys want to come to the party?"
Yikes!
So after our gig, we walked back to the hotel. It was the classic
Hollywood scene: giant spotlight beams circling in the air, red
carpet across Hollywood Ave. from Gruman's Chinese to the hotel, mobs
of people/limos/celebs. BIG party. I've got several mini-stories
from the party, but the germane one was that during one of the breaks
I wandered over to a table where Hutch, Billy Higgins, Wayne Shorter
and Herbie were all sitting....and there was Dexter, who by this time
was too sick to play (Wayne didn't play either that night, I think
Smilin' Billy sat in for a number). Herbie introduced me around (not
by name, just by circumstance). I got to sit and LISTEN (contribute
anything with that bunch...are you kidding!?!) to these old
friends and a mentor shoot the shit for awhile. Dexter was mostly
quiet, but when he spoke it was always...mellow and dryly humorous.
The end of the story is coincidence. My only child, a son, was born
almost to the minute that Dexter passed....no signs of amazing musical
talent yet, but Dad is ever hopeful.
--
Charlie Berg
c...@world.std.com
--
Charlie Berg
c...@world.std.com
Walter Davis
case....y'all know there's a label called Asian Improv right? Jon Jang,
Francis Wong, Vijay Iyer, Glenn Horiuchi, Miya Masaoka, Anthony Brown's
Asian-American Jazz Orch (dig their _Far East Suite_) ... they even
snuck a Fred Anderson disk on the label. :-) Check these folks out --
they also record for other labels, notably Black Saint/Soul Note.
--
walt davis
not officially speaking for the Alliance for Improvised Music
(http://baobabcomputing.com/aim). When I am, hopefully I'll
remember to use my AIM sig.
no...@webtv.net
with your wasabi (grated green radish) please. It's really hot
tonight".
Domo arigato. y'all.
. . .
Norton Shawn
Bruce LeClaire
Walter Davis wrote:
>
> Somebody mush have mentioned it and I missed it, but just in
> case....y'all know there's a label called Asian Improv right? Jon Jang,
> Francis Wong, Vijay Iyer, Glenn Horiuchi, Miya Masaoka, Anthony Brown's
> Asian-American Jazz Orch (dig their _Far East Suite_)
Long ago, and far away, before they had a Spago's, Palo Alto had an Old
Uncle Gaylord's Ice Cream Shop. It was a small funky little coffee
house/ice cream parlor that I frequented alot, circa 1985. It had very
informal music there everynight, and I meet many interesting people
during my visits.
One sunlit day I was banging (and I do mean banging) at the piano. At
the time I had a screwed-up schedule of work and classes so I would
sometimes drop in during the middle of the day. If I was alone, Ram
would let me bang away at the keys, while he worked in back. This day a
lot guy walks in, and he's so quick that, before I can beat a retreat to
my coffee, he's talking to me and showing me stuff on the piano.
Next thing I know he's giving me a demonstration mini-concert on this
beat-up, slightly out of tune, honkytonk piano. Great stuff, very
aggressive playing, advance workings, the whole bit. After he's done I
ask him where he learned to play. "Oh, I play all the time. I once had
some lessons from Chick Corea". (If he's playing in Uncle Gaylord's,
he's playing anywhere and everywhere, that's for sure).
We talk a little more, and I have to say, this guy is wired. And
intense. As we talk a more I gather that he's also quite political, and
might I say, radically inclined. Anyways, as quick as he appears, he out
the door, and I don't think I ever saw him again in Uncle Gaylord's.
It was Jon Jang.
--Bruce
Liberty Ellman
very bad taste - stick to the music.
no...@webtv.net
wanted to? very bad taste -- stick to the music".
Liberty -- how MANY jokes could you make about me? I'm indeed feeling
curious.
By the way --- how do you picture me? What's your mental image?
Stick to the music. Sono-tori. I want some flim flam, a la kazam, and
some sushi on the side.
H. Loess
Liberty Ellman <ell...@sirius.com> wrote:
>no...@webtv.net wrote:
>> "A little Sadao Watanabe with your sushi, Sir?". "Oh, and be careful
>> with your wasabi (grated green radish) please. It's really hot
>> tonight".
>> Domo arigato. y'all.
>how many jokes could we make about you if we wanted to?
>very bad taste - stick to the music.
>Liberty -- how MANY jokes could you make about me? I'm indeed feeling
>curious.
>By the way --- how do you picture me? What's your mental image?
>Stick to the music. Sono-tori. I want some flim flam, a la kazam, and
>some sushi on the side.
Neon - which of Watanabe's recordings do you recommend? And which (if not
the same) do you recommend for fruitfully marrying Japanese musical
traditions with those of so-called 'jazz'?
--
Henry L.
hlo...@pipeline.com
Mike Zimbouski
no...@webtv.net wrote:
> Stick to the music. Sono-tori. I want some flim flam, a la kazam, and
> some sushi on the side.
Cultural supremacy reigns. Imagine nown as a tourist? And people wonder
why Americans have a bad reputation overseas.
Mike Z
Paul Heroy
>Somebody mush have mentioned it and I missed it, but just in
>case....y'all know there's a label called Asian Improv right? Jon Jang,
>Francis Wong, Vijay Iyer, Glenn Horiuchi, Miya Masaoka, Anthony Brown's
>snuck a Fred Anderson disk on the label. :-) Check these folks out --
>they also record for other labels, notably Black Saint/Soul Note.
Thanks for actually addressing my main question, Walt. (I coulda just
emailed ya...) I've heard of Asian Improv, just don't have any
familiarity with it. I did see a review somewhere of the AAJO's _Far
East Suite_, and that's actually one of the things that prompted me to
ask. Feel free to recommend other recordings.
BeelzBubba
<damon...@compuserve.com> writes:
>to say hello to Rufus Reid,
>who had recently taught at the midwestern U. I was attending. I
>explained that I was in town with the college ethno group playing
>Chinese music...
So, Damon, were you attending NIU? In the flatlands of DeKalb, IL???
Glenn Wilson
is the greatest solo I've ever heard on Round Midnight.
I made a tape just for the hell of it with 9 versions of Round Midnight all
played by Miles from 1953 to 1969. Quite interesting to hear how their
interpretation of the tune evolved over the years. All but two of the
versions are based on Gil Evan's arrangement, but it got so loose and time
went on that you might not even recognize the 1969 version.
Monk's music, in general, is very difficult to play, but you shouldn't have
any trouble finding 20 or 30 good versions of the tune if you look around.
Good Luck
Glenn
<Rmidn...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10281-38...@storefull-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Tom Walls
way Monk heard it. It's available on "Monk Alone".
Bruce LeClaire
return to this thread for a moment.
First of all, it must be stated that Feather and Diz had a very close
relationship, in fact, Feather even produced several Carnegie concerts
given by Diz [e.g. first on Sept 29, 1947, a third on Dec 25, 1948].
Make no doubt about it, Feather was a tremendous proponent of Diz.
Now, Diz and Monk apparently had a falling out around 1946. The history
is as follows. Diz was in the process of forming his second big band
around Dec 1945 in NYC for an opening at the Spotlite club on 52th St.
The original pianist was Bud Powell, but by the spring of 1946 Bud had
grow too erratic and Diz replaced him with Monk (May '46). Monk in turn,
though more stable, also had one critical problem. He was almost never
on time for the gigs ("to hit"). So, Diz grew increasing frustrated with
Monk, until he was forced to fire him in Jul '46, replacing him with
John Lewis. Monk took this hard, and this may help to understand his
riff with the bebop movement. It should be mentioned that [Walter] Gil
Fuller, the band's musical director and arranger, really regretted this
decision, because he wanted Monk's tunes in the book. They had done
"Ruby My Dear" but only kept "'Round Midnight" after Monk's departure.
As other posters have indicated Monk did not have an easy time of it,
especially with the critics. Hawkins is quoted as saying "Some of the
most awlful things I had to endure, I endured on Monk's account". One of
Monk's earliest supporters was Herbie Nichols a writer for Music Dial.
Feather, however, was certainly not since he was extremely critical
of Monk at first. In fact, apparently, Monk eventually felt compelled
to accost Feather on account of his writings. They meet up at
Rockefeller
Plaza (you know, the skating rink) and Monk literally picked Feather up
and stoved him against the railing, accusing Feather of
"taking the bread right out of my mouth". And apparently, Feather soon
afterwards became far less critical of Monk (writing a favorable review
of Monk in Oct. '44, but not in his 1949 "Inside Jazz" book). Despite
Monk's large size (6'2?) this is, as far as I know, the only time he
ever exhibited such aggressive behavior. I would venture to say that
this incident, if it occured, would never be forgotten by Feather.
--Bruce
Sources:
"Inside Jazz" (1949) Leonard Feather
"Straight, No Chaser: The Life and Genius of Thelonious Monk" (1997)
Leslie Gourse
"Thelonius Monk: His Life and Music" (1997) Thomas Fitterling
http://www.achilles.net/~howardm/psych1.html (1996) Martin Margulis
Steve Emerson
>
> Make sure you check out Monk's solo version. It will provide insight into the
> way Monk heard it. It's available on "Monk Alone".
And an even better solo version on "Thelonious Himself."
SE.
descend...@gmail.com
> This is not meant to start any threads about this particular CD, but I
> am refering to Andy Summers' CD "Green Chimneys", the T. Monk tribute.
> Sting sings "'Round Midnight", and I see no credits for the lyrics. I
> have not heard of these lyrics before, did Monk write them, Sting, or
> someone else???
> Brian
Betty Carter recorded Babs' words with an additional coda on her LP 'Round Midnight.
I heard Babs himself sing them at The Slave Market a Detroit club in the '70's.
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