homosexuals in jazz music - query
Andy Gallo
This is kind of an odd question, but I'm trying to shake up a
friend's homophobia. He told me he wouldn't finish reading _Naked
Lunch_ because of the homo-erotic passages and that he wouldn't read
Ginsberg because he was gay.
I'm wondering if there are any major jazz artists that are out
with respect to their homosexuality. This guy is a big Jaco, Sun Ra,
Miles, and Ornette fan, so to discover that one of them (or any of his
other heroes) were gay (or bi) would be a major victory.
Thanks for any info.
"Ain't no time to hate."
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------:
: Andy Gallo | ga...@asel.udel.edu | U. of Delaware/Applied Sci & Eng Labs :
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------:
: Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, And Eternity in an hour. - W. Blake :
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------:
Dick A Mackey
Dale A Smoak
pianist Irene Schweitzer. He asked her if she's gay, by sort of leading
up to the question, and she said yes. He told her that she was the first
jazz musician he had ever interviewed that had told him that.
Kind of amazing, considering it was a 1990 interview.
She noted that there are plenty of homosexual men in jazz, but they don't
come out.
Interesting that a white, female, European, avant-garde musician was the
one to break that silence with Rusch--as though she could be more
marginalized than she already is!
Neil Leonard, in his book *Jazz: Myth and Religion*, writes a bit about a
sort of prohibition in jazz against homosexuality.
Dale
William Hsu
> I'm wondering if there are any major jazz artists that are out
> with respect to their homosexuality. This guy is a big Jaco, Sun Ra,
> Miles, and Ornette fan, so to discover that one of them (or any of his
> other heroes) were gay (or bi) would be a major victory.
I wouldn't count on your friend changing his attitudes anytime
soon, but it would be fun to make him squirm :-)
Swiss avant jazz pianist Irene Schweizer is very open about being
a lesbian. There are several other open lesbians who are prominent
Euro free improvisers, but I frankly don't remember which ones.
Cecil Taylor was "outed" by Stanley Crouch several years ago. But
he's not what I would call "out".
Don Pullen put "Silence=Death" on the New Beginnings record, and
mentioned the fight against homophobia. Of course that doesn't
imply anything about his sexuality, just that he is supportive.
One of the older female jazz/blues vocalists was a lesbian.
Was it Bessie Smith? I can never remember.
Bill
David Michael Goldberger
great gig and can no longer postpone on this: we need a name. we have no
leader and no clue. any suggestions? a pretty straight-ahead by the
real book band.
thanks in advance,
david
Marc Sabatella
> Cecil Taylor was "outed" by Stanley Crouch several years ago. But
> he's not what I would call "out".
I find him pretty "out", but probably in a different way than you meant :-)
> Don Pullen put "Silence=Death" on the New Beginnings record, and
> mentioned the fight against homophobia. Of course that doesn't
> imply anything about his sexuality, just that he is supportive.
Absolutely. One hardly has to be gay to be "supportive". BTW, seems to me
there are various other Pullen's on "Kele Mou Bana" - wife and/or kids?
For anyone who hasn't read Miles' autobiography, there is a story there about
when Bill Evans was about to join the band, and Miles (as a joke) told him that
one condition of his entry was to first have sex with the other band members.
Bill went home to think about it, and finally reported back to Miles that he
couldn't do it. That's when Miles let Bill in on the joke, and the band.
--
Marc Sabatella
ma...@fc.sde.hp.com
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Matt Wright
Kronos last year that included samples from gay rights marches and riots and
stuff.
-Matt
William Hsu
> I believe that Bob Ostertag is homosexual.
Yes he is. I didn't mention Ostertag (or Chris Cochrane) because
they're generally not considered to be *jazz* musicians (even if
they're good improvisers).
> He had a piece performed by
> Kronos last year that included samples from gay rights marches and
> riots and stuff.
AB101 demonstrations.
Bill
Arild Hestvik
For anyone who hasn't read Miles' autobiography, there is a story there
about when Bill Evans was about to join the band, and Miles (as a joke)
told him that one condition of his entry was to first have sex with the
other band members. Bill went home to think about it, and finally
reported back to Miles that he couldn't do it. That's when Miles let
Bill in on the joke, and the band.
In a "60 Minutes" interview with Mike Wallace, Miles once responded to a
question about whether he was going to get married again, that he was fed
up with women, but added (with a sly look) that if he was going to get
married again, he'd try a man this time. Wallace just stared blankly back
at him, before going on to the next question.
Malcolm Humes
>Matt Wright:
>> I believe that Bob Ostertag is homosexual.
>Yes he is. I didn't mention Ostertag (or Chris Cochrane) because
>they're generally not considered to be *jazz* musicians (even if
>they're good improvisers).
Um, given that Ostertag has a wife and child I'd think he might be described
as bi and outspokenly pro-gay, if anyone really cares.
I don't really see much connection between gender or sexual preferences and
music though, but I guess the Ostertag AB101 piece described might be an
example that's an exception to the norm.
And what about Billy Tipton?
- Malcolm
william.j.hery
>> Don Pullen put "Silence=Death" on the New Beginnings record, and
>> mentioned the fight against homophobia. Of course that doesn't
>> imply anything about his sexuality, just that he is supportive.
>Absolutely. One hardly has to be gay to be "supportive". BTW, seems to me
One would certainly hope so.
>there are various other Pullen's on "Kele Mou Bana" - wife and/or kids?
My copy is out on loan, so I can't check the notes, but I believe they
are his children (and possibly wife). I know he has a duaghter for whom
he composed THE NEWCOMER when she was born. He has recorded and performed
the pice live many times, with variations to justify the modification to
the title to make it THE NEWCOMER 17 YEARS LATER, etc.
As for Silence = Death, that was on the first album he made after the
Adams/Pullen quartet broke up. George Adams who died last year and looked
very emaciated in performance a couple of years ago, was rumored to have
had AIDS (probably from infected needles, but who knows). I assumed that
Pullen was aware of this at the time he recorded the piece. Pullen
has also been involved with jazz music for dance, and has collaborated
with people in that field. I have heard him introduce Silence = Death
with a reference to friends in that community with AIDS.
I also don't think this thread has any relevance in this newsgroup,
especially given the reason it was started.
Bill Hery
AT&T Bell Labs
201-386-2362
he...@att.COM
Gordon McGonigal
Names of songs -- especially Joe Henderson's songs (e.g. Page One, Black
Velvet) -- seem to be popular for band titles these days. How about
Inner Urge, has that been taken yet?
Call yourselves anything you want, as long as it isn't Nexus! I already
know of 3 of them, one each in Italy, Sweden, and Canada. Although, if
you must jump on that bandwagon be forwarned that you will soon engage
the services of Enrico Rava (as the Italians and Swedes have done before you).
Which reminds me that John Klemmer put out a decent album called Nexus.
Which reminds me that the best Klemmer I've heard is on the Chess two-fer
compilation MAGIC MOMENTS that is still available from Cadence for
next-to-nothing.
So, what other bands take their names from songs? Orange then Blue is
a very witty play on Mingus. Would Take 6 be an inflated nod to Desmond?
Of course there is Manteca -- and even Nueva Manteca!
Hey, maybe we can make a thread out of this yet!
>
>thanks in advance,
>david
Thank me later...it's so much more personal that way.
--
* * *
Gord McGonigal mcg...@ee.UManitoba.ca
Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, CANADA (R3T 2N2)
Marc Sabatella
> >there are various other Pullen's on "Kele Mou Bana" - wife and/or kids?
> My copy is out on loan, so I can't check the notes, but I believe they
> are his children (and possibly wife).
Nope, just got the liner notes back from the insurance company (long story),
and it is his brother and his brother's wife.
> I also don't think this thread has any relevance in this newsgroup,
> especially given the reason it was started.
I don't know, I think it is in the category of "useless but mildly interesting
information" along with "songs with the world 'love' in the title" or "songs
you have the most recordings of".
William Hsu
> described
> as bi and outspokenly pro-gay, if anyone really cares.
Umm, I think we've been thru this before, but there are many gay
men who have been/are married and have children.
I can start rambling about the limitations of identity politics
and the social construction of homosexuality, but I don't think
anyone else in this newsgroup is interested :-)
Bill
Robert Angelo Pleshar
>william.j.hery (w...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com) wrote:
>> >there are various other Pullen's on "Kele Mou Bana" - wife and/or kids?
>> My copy is out on loan, so I can't check the notes, but I believe they
>> are his children (and possibly wife).
>Nope, just got the liner notes back from the insurance company (long story),
>and it is his brother and his brother's wife.
On the cover of Pullen's "Sixth Sense" album on Black Saint, I remember
there being an E-Z Bake Oven box on top of the piano and thinking that
he must have kids. Now that I actually think about it for more than a
second though, he could have just been using the box for something else.
Oh well, maybe we can start a thread about cool things we've noticed on
album covers?
Ralph
John Thomas
I first picked up Donald Fagen's THE NIGHTFLY and noticed on its cover
(which is set inside what looks like a radio station) a copy of
Sonny Rollins' THE CONTEMPORARY LEADERS.
William Hsu
> On the cover of Pullen's "Sixth Sense" album on Black Saint, I remember
> there being an E-Z Bake Oven box on top of the piano and thinking that
> he must have kids. Now that I actually think about it for more than a
> second though, he could have just been using the box for something else.
But Ralph, I would *hope* he was using the box for something else.
I can't think of why Pullen would want to put his kids in the
box.
Bill
Marc Sabatella
I thought the implication was that he was putting his kids in *oven*.
Marcel Franck Simon
but it seems as if some people are theorizing that Don Pullen may be
gay. Well, I have no conclusive evidence, but I know he has a teenage son.
I sat next to said son a few months ago when Pullen and Murray (and Cyrille
and Cameron Brown) were at the Vanguard.
Cecil Taylor has been been seen consorting with well-proportionned young
men for some time now. Billy Strayhorn was quite openly gay; there is a
long-time rumor that he and Duke Ellington were lovers but Duke biographer
Stanley Dance disagrees.
I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of too many right now.
--
Marcel-Franck Simon min...@usl.com, usl!mingus
" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
Johnny Gee
Just a hunch, but I've always gotten the feeling that Carla Bley is bi-sexual,
as well as possibly pagan.
John
zo...@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
princess.ki...@gmail.com
Joelle Leandre and Maggie Nicols, both avant-garde jazz improvisors, who play in a band with Irene Schweizer called Les Diaboliques, are lesiban. All three women have played in the top echelons of the free scene for decades.
In a 1999 Vanity Fair article, Mercer Ellington said he thought Duke's with Billy Strayhorn may well have been sexual. Duke was prob bisexual tho, coz he was def into women. When i first got into jazz and Duke Ellington, i thought it was fairly obvious that he and Strayhorn were lovers.
Ralph Burns, one of the most important arranger-composers in swing history, mostly with Woody Herman, carefully hid his homosexuality untll he retired because the macho jazz world's homophobia is even worse than it's sexism, if you can possibly imagine that.
Jazz writer Chris Albertson is gay, and said that soon after he got a job in the office of Riverside Records in the late '50s, he learned how hypocritical the jazzman's macho pose could be. "I know a lot of musicians who would talk about the 'fucking faggots,' then they'd sleep with them," quoted from a JazzTimes article: http://jazztimes.com/articles/20073-homophobia-in-jazz
A lot of people thought Lester Young was gay, or at least bisexual - his nickname in the Count Basie band was "Miss Thing." Lester married and had girlfriends - altho they could've just been beards. Personally, i've always thought Lester was a closeted transsexual. It's a strait stereotype that gay men are effeminate in the way Lester Young was - most gay men simply aren't like that. I think Lester's deep sadness came from having to completely hide being transgender, coz that would've ended his career and lost him friends. As a transgender woman myself, i feel that when i listen to his music - but that might just be me.
UCLAN
> On Tuesday, April 13, 1993 at 4:47:19 PM UTC-7, Andy Gallo wrote:
