cecil taylor
Joyce Richards
i am interested in what others have to say about his playing.
is what he's playing appealing to people on a non-academic level?
the crowd loved him.
me, i don't know what to make of the music.
joyce.
--
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jo...@csd.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc.
"Strike!" (Richard III,I,iv).
William Tsun-Yuk Hsu
>is what he's playing appealing to people on a non-academic level?
Yes. I don't listen to music that doesn't appeal to me on a non-academic
level.
What grabbed me at first was the intensity and energy. I have physical
reactions to hearing Cecil Taylor's music. When my ears got quicker I
became better at picking up what he's doing, how he builds up dense
structures from simple motifs, the interplay between the musicians
which is so easy to miss when you're swept away by the energy and
density of the music.
Bill
Seth Katz
Subject: cecil taylor
Date: 17 Jun 1991 16:56:18 PDT
cecil taylor played at Grace Cathedral in SF last night.
i am interested in what others have to say about his playing.
is what he's playing appealing to people on a non-academic level?
the crowd loved him.
me, i don't know what to make of the music.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hi Joyce,
I was really surprised at the number of people who flooded in
to fill the cathedral to see Cecil Taylor. It seems that a lot of
people in attendence were unfamiliar with his music.
Lately, Taylor's solo work has been more percussive. Little by
little he may shed entirely his romantic past. Instead we have
a speed and technique reminiscent of a flamenco player like Paco
deLucia, and compositions that stir memories of Nancarrow
pieces for player piano.
It is more than academic- it's exciting. I know I got a real kick
out of watching the sun go down through stained glass as Cecil
demolished a Bosendorfer with his elbows, but it's not for everyone.
If you are interested, though, it might make more sense if you start
with earlier recordings like "Conquistador" or (if you can find it)
"Nefertitti, The Beautiful One Has Come", or even the solo recording
"Indent". I think that's how I came to pick up the shreds of color
left in his current material.
-Seth
Damballah Wedo
> i am interested in what others have to say about [cecil taylor's] playing.
> is what he's playing appealing to people on a non-academic level?
> the crowd loved him.
> me, i don't know what to make of the music.
Was the crowd made up only of academics? If not, I should think
that would answer your question of whether his music appeals
to non-academics, right?
There are two fundamental things to remember in approaching
Cecil's music. First, forget the conventions of piano music,
which are fundamentally linear. Cecil sees the piano as 88
tuned drums; he plays the piano like a drummer. Second, Cecil
does not, WILL not, give you something to ride along with.
In most music listeners can hook onto some catchy melodic
phrase, or tap their foot to a steady beat. Cecil will not
do that, hasn't since 1961. As a result one must give him
one's undivided attention, for the totality of the performance.
This is exceedingly difficult to do.
Of course, the listening rewards are enormous. I haven't heard
any uninteresting Cecil Taylor, and at his best he's mesmerizing.
He constructs sound fields (forget about left hand chords supporting
right hand melody) with either hand, lightning runs of sprayed
notes, or clusters in which palm and elbows play as much of a role
as fingers. His musicians too are expected to construct their
own fields; Cecil's music is all about the interaction of these
fields.
If you are interested in exploring him, I recommend starting in
two places: his solo albums, because there is only the two fields
formed by his hands to cope with; and his early albums, before
he completely abandoned the last remnants of linear music making,
because there is at least some connection to the bebop you are
familiar with.
For the solo albums, see first of all the sublime SILENT TONGUES
(Arista Freedom), and also AIR ABOVE MOUNTAINS (BUILDINGS WITHIN)
(Inner City) and GARDEN (Hat Art).
Not a solo album but similar is HISTORIC CONCERTS (Soul Note),
his meeting with Max Roach -- Max' melodic approach to the drums
contrasts perfectly with Cecil's percussive approach to the piano.
For the early group albums, first and foremost pick up THE COMPLETE
CANDID RECORDINGS OF CECIL TAYLOR (Mosaic) for his classic 1960
work. There are three incredible performances by a group that included
Jimmy Lyons and Archie Shepp on Gil Evans' INTO THE HOT (Impulse!)
Also fascinating is LOOKING AHEAD (Contemporary) from 1958.
If you find you dig these, then by all means check out NEFERTITI,
THE BEAUTIFUL ONE HAS COME (Arista Freedom) a 1962 performance at
the Jazzhus Montmartre that marks Cecil's leaving behind the last
remnants of linear drumming. The band, a trio with Jimmy Lyons and
Sunny Murray, is fantastic; Lyons spins bebop-influenced lines
suspended in mid-air over the ferocious cross-fire laid out by Murray
and Taylor.
Then see UNIT STRUCTURES (Blue Note) from 1966. It's a more formalist
approach to his music, and perhaps the best place to hear how he
constructs his group music. A companion album, CONQUISTADOR (Blue
Note 1967), is also excellent. Jumping around a bit, I recommend
WINGED SERPENT (Soul Note 1985), a rare big band date, THE EIGHTH (1978)
and LIVE IN BOLOGNA (1980) (Hat Art and Leo, respectively), live
recordings by his (then) working bands.
I have not heard the Berlin recordings on the FMP box (I just could not
swing the $200) but critical opinion on the net and in the press has
been unanimous that it's superb.
Lastly, if you ever hear that a record has been issued of a nonet
recording made at the Knitting Factory in 1991, pick it up, no questions
asked. I'm still reeling from the music I heard that night (hi
Sandeep and Marc!) I'll brag to my grandchildren about having been
at that one :-)
--
Marcel-Franck Simon min...@usl.com, uslunix!mingus
" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
Chris Koenigsberg
campus in Philadelphia, around 1975 or so. I believe Sonny Murray was on
drums, Jimmy Lyons on alto, another sax whose name I forget, and no
bassist.
They played furiously for a half hour solid, and then each turned one
page on their music stands before continuing...... each long piece was
represented by one page of notation, and I regret that I didn't go up
and look at what was written down.
Murray's drumsticks were a blinding frenzied blizzard, yet the overall
drum instrument gave the impression of a motionless trance, suspended
perfectly calmly in midair, balanced on all sides by perfect constant
self-cancelling perturbations. All possible rhythms were present,
occasionally surfacing as a side eddy or whirl in the sound ocean,
before submerging once again.
Lyons and the other sax player honked and squonked. Animal-like bleats
and squawks, repetitive ritualistic chants and screams, sudden bursts
and blurries of bepop-influenced sheets of sound, populating the
landscape with thoroughly animate, although unfamiliar, breathing
figures.
Taylor scurried over, under, through it all, able to chase down any
fragment of any idea of his own or of any other instrument, at any
speed, at any angle, at any tonality or lack thereof. If one could
whittle down Taylor's performance, in any number of different ways, one
would find, in some scraps of diminished remains, any individual kind of
more traditional form of music desired. His totality mastered and
transcended all of these lesser forms into a higher comprehension.
(I guess it was a long time ago, I was an impressionable extremely
stoned teenager, but these are the romanticized memories I have of that
evening)
All my friends that came with me were miserable, wanted to leave at
intermission (I think some of them actually did) and were angry at me
for bringing them to such torture. I was enthralled, enraptured,
entranced, and didn't stir during the entire performance.
So, to put it mildly, there are quite varied reactions to Taylor's music.
-------------------------
The first time I heard him was on the radio, sometime before 1975.
Someone was banging on the piano, on the radio, and I said "Hey, that
sounds like us messing around with the piano when we're wasted.....
except, they're actually accomplishing all the gestures, technically,
carrying them out to their full expression, while we just flail around
and get stuck after a couple of notes in each gesticulation........" and
that was Cecil Taylor.
There are other albums that people haven't mentioned, he's got a fair
number of LP's out (but very few on CD, and probably all out of
print)....There's a pair of double albums with a trio including Sirone
(of the Art Ensemble of Chicago) on bass. There's a European one from
the late 80's, with an orange cover, for example, with an ensemble
including bassoon (I forget the name, but it's not Live in Bologna).
There's "Cecil Taylor In Transition", and "Fly, Fly, Fly".
Once, two or three years ago, I heard Cecil Taylor on National Public
Radio, on Marion McPartland's "Piano Jazz" show, when I was on my way to
the grocery store in the car (I sat out in the parking lot for a half
hour listening till it was over! :-).... her interviewing him, him just
talking, them doing little piano duets.... amazing.
Chris Koenigsberg
ck...@andrew.cmu.edu
Seth Katz
From: ck...@andrew.cmu.edu (Chris Koenigsberg)
I saw a Cecil Taylor Unit concert at the Foxhole on the U. of Penn.
campus in Philadelphia, around 1975 or so. I believe Sonny Murray was on
drums, Jimmy Lyons on alto, another sax whose name I forget, and no
bassist.
-=-=-=-=-
I'm jealous. Was the other sax Carlos Ward or Leo Wright (is that
who I mean? I always get him confused...)?
There's a pair of double albums with a trio including Sirone
(of the Art Ensemble of Chicago) on bass.
-=-=-=-=-
Picking a nit: Malachi Favors (Mahgoustat) is the
bass player for the AEC. Sirone is usually the bassist
in Phalanx. He's on Cecil Taylor's "Spring of Two Blue J's",
at least (Unit Core Records- my copy has no notes and a
white cover, the info is from Eberhardt Jost in the Berlin 88
box set).
BTW, seen in the audience at the show that started this
string: Larry Ochs and Jon Raskin of Rova with pal Greg
Goodman and Peter Appfelbaum. In case you're interested
in who influences whom...
-s
Sandeep Mehta
> min...@cbnewsl.att.com (Damballah Wedo) writes:
> There are two fundamental things to remember in approaching
> Cecil's music. First, forget the conventions of piano music,
> which are fundamentally linear. Cecil sees the piano as 88
> tuned drums; he plays the piano like a drummer.
[...]
> Of course, the listening rewards are enormous. I haven't heard
> any uninteresting Cecil Taylor, and at his best he's mesmerizing.
Well, I was hoping Marcel would jump in first, since he says it better
about Cecil than anyone I know can :-)
Watching, hearing, and absorbing Cecil Taylor has always been a
religious experience for me. And my opinion is purely non-academic.
Those who listen to and experience Cecil Taylor's music as an academic
exercise have missed the point entirely. And those who expect to listen
to and experience Cecil's music simply as an extension of jazz rooted in
chorded, melody-driven compositions (like other "new" jazz today that
persons who names end in Crouch would force you to believe :-)) have
also missed the point. This is not music that "lets the ears lie back in
an easy chair", to quote Charles Ives.
Cecil's music can be summarized by the title of one his own albums - AIR
ABOVE MOUNTAINS (BUILDINGS WITHIN). Imagine an architecture in sound.
Imagine an architecture where nothing is conventional yet everything
flows in and out naturally. And all of this constructed by two hands and
96 drums (or 88 when his Bosendorfer Imperial cannot come along).
This is not to say that Cecil has not grown out of tradition. Ask him
who his favorite musicians are and do not be surprised at his love for
Billie Holiday alongside James Brown and Marvin Gaye. Cecil has said in
an interview that in Berlin when he has spare time he hangs out at a
disco where he likes to play Marvin Gaye tunes!
Sure, his sound today, at 61, does mellow out sometimes as compared to
his fiercer albums of earlier years. This was in evidence at a solo
concert he gave at the Village Vanguard this March. What amazed me was
how Cecil would slip in, almost by reflex, phrases of the blues,
sometimes just a few "blue" notes, and then launch back into a
propulsive attack. While relaxing between onslaughts, the prettiest of
ballad phrases emerged from his fingers. Nothing academic at all about
Cecil Taylor.
If the Vanguard had him relaxed and somewhat mellower, the May 9
performance of the Cecil Taylor Nonet (with W. Parker, T. Oxley, H.
Martinez, Carlos Ward -as, Thurman Barker -marimba, John Bruschini -
gtr, Raphe Abdul Malik - tp, Glen Spearman - ts) was *so* intense that I
will not forget that concert for the rest of my life!
Marcel has covered the albums to begin with. In 1988 he posted a
(partial) discography which I include here. I'll also repost his 1989
review of the superlative Mosaic box.
========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor, please...
Date: 24 Nov 88 15:59:38 GMT
Looking Ahead Contemporary 1959
The World of Cecil Taylor (with Archie Shepp) Candid 1960
Jumpin' Punkins (with Clark Terry, A. Shepp) Candid 1961
New York R 'n' B (with Archie Shepp) Candid 1971*
Air Featuring Archie Shepp (same as "World") Candid 1972*
Unit Structures Blue Note 1967
Conquistador Blue Note 1968*
Indent Arista 1973*
Nefertiti, the Beautiful One has Come (rec 1962) Arista 1975*
Silent Tongues Arista 1975
Cecil Taylor Solo Trio 1973*
Spring of Two Blue Jays Unit Core 1974*
Air Above Mountains (Buildings Within) Inner City 1976
The Great Concert of Cecil Taylor Prestige 1977
Cecil Taylor and Max Roach - Historic Concerts Soul Note 1984
Segments II / Winged Serpent (Sliding Quadrants) Soul Note 1985
For Olim Soul Note 1987
The ones marked with * are out of print. Particularly recommended are
SILENT TONGUES, UNIT STRUCTURES, THE WORLD OF, SPRING OF TWO BLUE JAYS,
NEFERTITI and the collaboration with Max Roach. JUMPING PUNKINS is remarkable
because of the presence of Terry, at first blush grossly incompatible,
but which works because of the flexibiility of the Ellington material.
Other Cecil titles, which I don't have (sigh) but have heard or heard of:
Coltrane Time (a John Coltrane date, actually) (Boplicity)
Akisa Kila (Trio)
One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye (Hat Hut)
It is in the Brewing Luminous (Hat Hut)
Garden (Hat Hut)
The Eighth (Hat Hut)
Live in Bologna (Leo)
The Early Unit 1962 (Ingo)
The Hat Huts are all from the early 80s. The Boplicity and Ingo are from the
same years as the Candids (which are excellent). I read a great review of
the Leo, but know nothing else about it (other than that it is very recent,
expensive, and I've seen it only on LP)
Hope this helps
--
Marcel-Franck Simon min...@attunix.ATT.COM, attunix!mingus
" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
========================================================================
/sandeep
--
sme...@nynexst.com
--
Give them, O mother of moths and mother of men,
Strength to enter the heavy world again,
For delicate were the moths and badly wanted
there in a world by mammoth figures haunted!
- Tennessee Williams
Jean Etienne Doucet
In a partial Cecil Taylor discography gave, there are some records
missing (that won't make it complete anyhow):
Love For Sale (circa '58):
3 Cole Porter songs (I love Paris, LfS, and another I can't remember now)
with CT trio,
2 CT originals witrh Ted Curson and Bill Baron added.
I have the French '61 edition, maybe it's not the original title...
(I don't know the American company: maybe United Artists ?).
Never seen reissued under any form.
Into the Hot ('60 ?)
A Gil Evans Impulse album shared between CT and John Carisi orchestra;
3 tracks by CT: Pots, Bulbs, Mixed
with Jimmy Lyons, Archie Shepp, Ted Curson (?)...
(the record is at home, and I can't remember all the names..).
Currently available on CD in France.
Student Studies ('66, label = ??)
live recording of the '66 quartet with Jimmy Lyons, Sunny Murray and
Alan Silva (in Paris);
contains an extraordinary 30 minutes piece, unfortunately
splitted in two in the LP edition.
Nuits De La Fondation Maeghe ('69)
2 separate LP (reissued = ??) recorded in St Paul de Vence;
[in november, CT had two concerts in Paris, with Miles Davis
as opening group...]
[[Fondation Maeghe recorded also a concert by Albert Ayler]]
Embraced (Pablo '77)
Piano duo with Mary Lou Williams;
a sort of "Jazz Piano History" (that's the cover says);
2 LP, never seen as CD.
Some remarks about listed records:
Coltrane Time is somewhat desappointing: Trane and Taylor styles
don't mix too well; this session was all but adventurous...
Garden is one of my favorite (together with Worlds... and Unit Structures);
solo piano, very good recording.
And now a question: has anybody information about records that
could have been made (it's not quite sure) at the time Albert Ayler
was in CT group ?
Jean-Etienne Doucet, LAAS/CNRS, Toulouse, France.
dou...@laas.laas.fr
Chris Koenigsberg
Seth Ka...@grosz.esd.sgi. (1007)
> Picking a nit: Malachi Favors (Mahgoustat) is the bass player for the
AEC. Sirone is usually the bassist in Phalanx.
Yes, I was wrong, obviously. Sirone was the bass player with Leroy
Jenkins' "Revolutionary Ensemble" in the 1970's, which I sometimes get
mixed up with the Art Ensemble of Chicago, sorry! (the Revolutionary
Ensemble was also part of the AACM in Chicago.....)
Chris Koenigsberg
ck...@andrew.cmu.edu
Bill Rosenblatt
And now a question: has anybody information about records that
could have been made (it's not quite sure) at the time Albert Ayler
was in CT group ?
Ayler played with Taylor before and after his sojourn in Europe, i.e.,
in 1962 and 1963/4. As far as I know these historic meetings are,
sadly, uncrecorded, though of course bootlegs may exist.
--
Bill Rosenblatt | "...the tyrant will probably turn out to be music
UMass/Amherst CS Dept. | itself -- that which dominates us all."
rosen...@cs.umass.edu | -- Julian (Cannonball) Adderley
Chris Koenigsberg
I think I was wrong on another point, as usual.........
the drummer at the Cecil Taylor concert in the 1970's at the Foxhole in
Philly was probably Andrew Cyrille, not Sonny Murray (but all the
comments about his style still apply).
(thanks to Bob Hofkin for pointing this out to me :-)
Chris Koenigsberg
ck...@andrew.cmu.edu
William Tsun-Yuk Hsu
>missing (that won't make it complete anyhow):
[entries deleted]
Maybe it's time to compile a new Cecil Taylor discography. (I'd volunteer
but I'm going on vacation in a couple days.)
Cecil Taylor's been so active in the late '80s it's been impossible to keep
up with him. Other than the monster Berlin '88 set, there's an East
Berlin date with Gunter Sommer on FMP, two or three new CDs on FMP
solo and with the Feel Trio, In Florescence, the DIW CD with the
Art Ensemble of Chicago...
Bill