The RMB FAQ
Marc Sabatella
Last updated: 12/20/01
Compiled by Matt Snyder
This FAQ only applies to rec.music.bluenote, not
rec.music.bluenote.blues, which grew out of r.m.b. and
is now a free-standing entity of its own. I leave it to other parties
to produce a FAQ for r.m.b.b.
Sections of this FAQ have been taken directly from previous versions
compiled by Mark Linimon. I have taken it upon myself to continue this
work. This posting, like much of Usenet, is maintained on a purely
volunteer basis. I welcome reactions, additions, and corrections via
email at
msn...@alumni.indiana.edu.
It should be stated at the outset that the purpose of any Usenet FAQ is
to discourage repetitive or useless posting to the newsgroup in
question. A basic rule for r.m.b. or any other newsgroup is that one
should only post if one has something of substance to say, or something
to ask that hasn't been asked before.
CONTENTS
1) A brief history of rec.music.bluenote (including why it's not called
rec.music.jazz)
2) What is the charter of rec.music.bluenote?
3) What is considered good net etiquette on rec.music.bluenote?
(Including a note about trolls.)
4) What are the standard topics for discussion?
5) What have been some specific recurring questions and topics?
5.1) What are the best 10/50/100 jazz albums?
5.2) Wynton Marsalis
5.3) The shill issue
5.4) The musician/non-musician issue
5.5) "I think X is better than Y" or "X is overrated, Y is
underrated."
5.6) Is (fusion/avant-garde/etc.) really jazz?
5.7) Does anyone know that jazz tune on the Infiniti commercial for
the I30?
5.8) Who did that music on the Charlie Brown specials?
5.9) What collected Charlie Parker (Savoy, Dial, Verve) is
available?
5.10) What are the latest issues of (insert label/artist/group)?
5.11) Who wrote Nardis, Blue in Green, Milestones, Donna Lee, Dig,
Impressions, Tune Up, Four,
Solar and Walkin'?
5.12) When is the Peter Keepnews biography of Thelonious Monk
coming out?
5.13) What's the deal with Keith Jarrett groaning all the time? And
what is he ill with?
5.14) What are Fake Books? What is the Real Book?
5.15) What's the deal with digipacks?
5.16) Does Mosaic Records have a web page, can I order online or
can I contact them via email?
5.17) What is the address/phone number for Cadence? Do they have
email or a method for ordering
online?
5.18) Is anyone familiar with an LP titled Jazz Immortals
featuring Charley Christian, Dizzy
Gillespie and Thelonious Monk recorded in the early 1940's?
5.19) Who is playing the other saxophone at the end of the "Psalm"
movement of John Coltrane's A
Love Supreme?
5.20) What books that are considered good, standard "references"
for jazz?
5.21) What tunes are considered "standard" jazz tunes?
5.22) What are some important "avant-garde" jazz recordings?
5.23) Who are some "jazz families"?
5.24) What is the best method of storing large amounts of CD's?
5.25) I'm going to be in New York next week. Who's appearing at
the clubs?
6) Where can I find a listing of local jazz radio stations/record
stores/clubs etc.?
7) Are there mailing lists for particular jazz artists?
8) Is rec.music.bluenote archived anywhere?
9) Are there any other jazz-oriented newsgroups?
10) Where can I find the current version of this FAQ?
11) Some final words
12) List of contributors
1) A brief history of rec.music.bluenote.
The following events occurred over the last four-five months of
1987, as reported by Marcel-Franck
Simon <min...@eclipse.net>, included with his permission:
"I was running mail.jazz and Rich Kulawiec was running mail.blues.
We were both on each other's
lists, but there was no other relationship. Several people on
mail.jazz had asked how come it was
not a newsgroup. Finally Joe Hellerstein decided to do something
about it..."
"There was a lot of talk about this, both private and on the
respective mailing lists, but a consensus
eventually emerged that the musics were pretty much sides of the
same coin, and also that there was
no other place for either to go, and that some good synergies would
develop from these related, but
distinct, points of view. Note that this has basically happened."
"On the name. Sorry, it had nothing to do with the Blue Note
label. The name came out of a bunch
of mail exchanges between Joe, Rich and myself. It was quite clear
that including the blues meant
the [exclusion of the name] rec.music.jazz. None of us liked any
permutations of
rec.music.jazz_and_blues (thank goodness) ... I don't remember the
various proposals, but we came
to agree on rec.music.bluenotes, since blue notes permeate both
jazz and of course the blues (see,
e.g. Monk's "Riding on a Blue Note"). The net discussion and vote
counting period all carried the
bluenotes name, but when the group got created, that final s
somehow was lost."
Rich Kulawiec <r...@itw.com> recalled it this way:
"There wasn't nearly enough support on Usenet to create a "blues"
newsgroup and a "jazz"
newsgroup at the time that rec.music.bluenote was created. There
was *barely* enough to create
r.m.bluenote, in fact. While it's probably true that the number of
people reading this group is
increasing all the time, I would not be surprised to find that
there still isn't enough support for
separate newsgroups." (Ed.note: This of course is no longer the
case, and the two newsgroups have
been long separated.)
Marcel continues:
"Oh, about the name: yes, I picked it, out of the ones suggested by
everybody who had an idea to
contribute. There was quite a bit of discussion at the time (which
I won't repeat here) and
"bluenote" seemed to be the name which satisfied the technical
criteria and expressed the purpose of
the newsgroup. I don't think it's confusing at all -- especially
since any new user should read
news.announce. newusers ... before asking questions like 'what is
the purpose of newsgroup X?'"
For another perspective on the newsgroup, read Kelly Bucheger's
essay on rec.music.bluenote at
http://www-cs.canisius.edu/~bucheger/ModemJazzRMB.html.
2) What is the charter of rec.music.bluenote?
The charter of rec.music.bluenote is to provide a forum for
discussion of jazz music, both past and
future. The group is unmoderated; participation is open to all.
(Mark Linimon recalls that "there was
no mechanism at the time of the newsgroup creation to include a
formal charter in the vote, like
there is today. However, the above is pretty close to what the
original consensus was." See "A brief
history of rec.music.bluenote", above, for details.)
(Ed. Note: Along with rights come responsibilities. Just because
one CAN pointlessly provoke
people into meaningless (and possibly off-topic) arguments, or talk
merely for the sake of hearing
one's own voice, does not mean that one SHOULD. See "What is
considered good net etiquette on
rec.music.bluenote?")
3) What is considered good net etiquette on rec.music.bluenote?
Here are some etiquette reminders that will help us all to make the
group an ever-friendlier, useful
and informative place:
Please, before posting, ensure that you've read the basic Usenet
etiquette guide in
news.announce.newusers. In fact, read ALL the messages on that
newsgroup, since there usually
aren't very many and they're all helpful. One helpful website
about netiquette can be found at:
http://www.clari.net/brad/emily.html
A note about trolls: Trolls are a problem throughout Usenet these
days and rmb is no exception.
RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO BAIT OR BE BAITED!!! Some people have
dogmatic views
and will not be persuaded otherwise. However, some post simply to
antagonize and raise the heat
of the discussion without contributing anything of substance or
value to the newsgroup. Jazz may be
a matter of faith, but avoid launching crusades. Recognize
inflammatory postings for what they are.
Don't waste bandwidth responding to trolls, because they will only
be encouraged. For more on trolls
take a look at http://liquid2k.net/rmbtroll/
Please consider the r.m.b. readership before you cross-post.
Consider rec.music.misc for articles of
general interest to all music fans.
Please avoid off-topic posting. If a thread threatens to veer off
on tangents far removed from music,
let alone jazz or improvised music, it is best to continue the
discussion via email, or go to a
newsgroup appropriate for the altered subject.
MUSICAL TASTES DIFFER. Rec.music.bluenote, when at its best, is a
force that can aid
education and tolerance. Let's all try to learn from one another.
Jeff Beer <jb...@or219a.e1.iit.edu> comments on this point:
"Everyone comes to jazz from different backgrounds, with different
ages, and with different listening
histories, and that may play a big factor in why there is such
differences in tastes. The great thing
about jazz is that it has so much depth, that as you gain
experience in listening to it, many new
details may surface. You may like Charlie Parker, but after you
hear Eric Dolphy, you may hear
even more in Bird! It is best to keep in mind that just because you
may not like artist X today,
doesn't mean that you won't like them tomorrow. That applies to
Anthony Braxton as much
as Wynton Marsalis, to Cecil Taylor as much as Oscar Peterson, to
John Zorn as much as Pat
Metheny. The reason why you don't like a particular artist may
simply be because he or she makes
neckties when you want to listen to shoes."
Don't follow-up "tell me about X" postings. Instead, email an
answer and let the person summarize.
For people asking "tell me about X" questions, offer to collect the
answers by email and summarize.
Then do it.
If you see an opinion you disagree with, don't follow up just to
tell the world you disagree, unless
you want to present an alternative point of view (and explain it).
Please set the Followup-To: line in your post. This is especially
true if you are cross-posting.
Particularly if you're posting upcoming concert information,
consider setting the Distribution: line in
your post (for example: usa, na, can, ba) to restrict posting to an
appropriate local region. (However,
some folks like to know what's going on elsewhere in the world.)
When following up, please change the Subject: line if the subject
has really changed.
4) What are the standard topics for discussion?
An incomplete list would include:
Discussions of specific artists
Collecting jazz recordings and sharing discographical information
Information on purchasing recordings and trading/buying/locating
unissued materials, both audio and
video
Pointers to upcoming festivals, concert and club appearances, and
musical jam sessions
Performance and record reviews
Posting of essays for group feedback
Discussions of music theory, performance practice, and instrument
techniques.
Pointers to books and magazines about jazz
Discussions of jazz history
Studying music
Discussion of jazz education
Discussion/information on jazz organizations and their activities
5) What have been some specific recurring questions and topics?
5.1) What are the best 10/50/100 jazz albums?
Even seasoned listeners won't agree on this topic.
Common recommendations
include recordings by (roughly in historical order)
Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington,
Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John
Coltrane, Charles Mingus, and
Ornette Coleman. Most would agree that a discussion
of jazz would be incomplete
without including the recordings of these artists.
A useful list of "100 historically significant
recordings" can be found on Jamey D.
Aebersold's website at
http://www.doubletimejazz.com/index_new.htm
Jim Determan's heavily annotated CD-era update of the
listing from Len
Lyons's 1980 book "The 101 Best Jazz Albums" can be found
at
http://people.qualcomm.com/determan/Jazz.html
Please note that nothing is more boring to read than a
simple listing of what your favorite
albums are, particularly if the list includes Kind of
Blue, Blue Train, etc. However, if you
can write with clarity about the merits and wonders of
any particular record, especially
one that may not be generally known among those in the
newsgroup, more power to you.
5.2) Wynton Marsalis
Wynton Marsalis is a controversial figure in this group,
and elsewhere, because of his
strong views on the state of jazz today and because of
his power as the Director of Jazz
at Lincoln Center in New York. It seems true that
developments in jazz from the late
60's to the present have failed to win the music a wide
audience. Wynton in some of his
public comments seems to share the view that many people
have that this is "bad." This
is certainly a matter of opinion; there is certainly no
consensus among the readers here.
About the only thing anyone can agree on regarding Wynton
is that he has helped bring
new listeners to jazz, both through his recordings and
through his efforts in jazz
education.
Over the past couple of years there have been recurring
wars cropping up on the
newsgroup over Wynton, his views and his policies
regarding Jazz at Lincoln Center.
These outbursts have invariably generated more heat than
light. Be warned that any
discussion regarding him should be undertaken with this
in mind.
5.3) The shill issue
The American Heritage dictionary defines a shill as "one
who poses as a satisfied
customer to dupe bystanders into participating in a
swindle." This term has been used in
rec.music.bluenote to refer to a paid representative from
a commercial firm (record label)
posing as a disinterested party.
Suffice to say that blatant advertising is almost
universally frowned upon here or on any
other newsgroup (except those dedicated to that purpose),
and posing as an honest fan of
the music in order to push a particular label's product
will get you tarred, feathered and
flamed in short order. A solution would be for anyone
who wants to advertise their latest
record to post to the newsgroup and say, "Hey, look at my
website to see what's new."
It's quick, easy, and nobody's feathers will get ruffled.
The following is quoted, with permission, from Gord
McGonigal's website:
"1994 will be remembered as the year that record
companies discovered the USENET
jazz and blues newsgroup rec.music.bluenote."
"Unfortunately, many companies have failed to appreciate
the subtleties of doing business
in r.m.b. (if not entirely failing to read the USENET
guidelines for acceptable use). Some
have paid representatives to artificially drum up
discussion of their product (in a medium
where it was once thought that all discussion was
generated through a love for the music).
Some post advertising copy. Some have posted ridiculously
long articles (over 1700 lines
in one case) without any regard for the attendant costs
incurred by others. These
practices drew many flames in response. They rightly
should, since they contravene the
USENET guidelines. Should the readership ever waiver in
their opposition to the
commercial use of their newsgroup I foresee a sorry end
to rec.music.bluenote."
"Unfamiliarity with USENET guidelines and inexperience
with the expectations of the
rec.music.bluenote readership seems to be the main
problem. Part of the problem stems
from advertisers not realizing that USENET (a
non-commercial entity) is not the internet
(possibly a commercial entity)."
For much more on this topic, see Gord's full exploration
of it at
http://www.HandOfGord.com/ads.html
5.4) The musician/non-musician issue
Rec.music.bluenote is a place where all should feel
welcome to contribute their thoughts
and viewpoints on the music we all love. Unfortunately,
internecine warfare occasionally
breaks out over who does and who does not have the right
to say things about the music,
and it sometimes revolves around who is and who is not a
musician.
A rule of thumb by which all contributors, musicians or
not, should go by is that if you
have something of use to say to the r.m.b. community, can
say it clearly and can argue
your point well, your position is solid and you have
nothing to apologize for. You will be
in an even better position if you are willing to learn
from those who know more than you
do (even if they aren't musicians).
Clearly of no use whatsoever are endless flame wars over
who has the right to be a critic.
5.5) "I think X is better than Y" or "X is overrated, Y is
underrated."
These postings always create a great deal of controversy.
As subjective listeners we have
preferences. Certainly the approach of saying "I prefer
X over Y because of A, B, and
C" seems to shed more light than saying "I prefer X over
Y because Y has A, B, and C
wrong with him."
However, the most useless thing to do is to simply say "I
hate X and Y" without giving
any reason at all. Whatever you say, please try to offer
some reasoning behind your
thinking.
Nou Dadoun <dad...@cs.ubc.ca> provides the following true
story of a Sheila Jordan
comment:
"In the fall of '88, Sheila Jordan and Bobby McFerrin
were both in Vancouver on the
same night at different venues. A fan went up to Sheila
at the end of the evening and
said that she'd gone to hear her instead of Bobby
McFerrin because she's better. Sheila
responded without a moment's hesitation, 'I'm not better,
I'm different'."
Finally, see the note above in the etiquette section
about differing musical tastes. As the
saying goes, there's no accounting for it, and nobody
need apologize for it either.
A related issue (though it's really the same thing) is
the "overrated/underrated" question.
This subject crops up occasionally when people start
listing a string of musicians as over-
or underrated.
Marc Sabatella <ma...@outsideshore.com> offers his
thoughts on this:
"Given a definition of 'overrated' as 'someone who
appeals to the observer less than the
general critical consensus would seem to warrant', I
respect anyone's right to call
someone overrated as a statement of opinion. Someone who
confuses their opinion with
truth, however, I am less interested in."
5.6) Is (fusion/avant-garde/etc.) really jazz?
As with the Wynton issue, strong disagreements exist.
The very frequency with which
this topic comes up, however, probably answers the
question. Obviously, a great many
people must believe that a particular style of jazz in
fact IS jazz if it continues to come up
for discussion on the newsgroup for years on end. By the
same token, there appears to
have been very little argument over the thought that
"lite jazz" is not jazz at all, since it is
discussed so infrequently on the newsgroup, except for
the periodic and inevitable Kenny
G bashing.
Finally, we have this quote from Marcel-Franck Simon
<min...@eclipse.net>:
"We can talk about something is "not jazz" without this
meaning that it is not worth
listening to. I like, e.g. African pop, among others.
That doesn't mean
rec.music.bluenote is the place to talk about them;
moreover, saying so implies no
disrespect for those musics."
5.7) Does anyone know that jazz tune on the Infiniti commercial for
the
I30?
It's called Take Five, and it is performed by The Dave
Brubeck Quartet. It was written
by the Quartet's alto saxophonist, Paul Desmond, and the
group recorded it on their
"Time Out" album in 1959 for Columbia Records (CL 1397).
5.8) Who did that music on the Charlie Brown specials?
The composer of the music on the first two or three
specials was named Vince Guaraldi.
He has since passed away, and some of the later specials
have been done by Judy
Munson. Several albums remain in print under Guaraldi's
name.
Readers have specifically recommended an album by
Guaraldi called "Cast Your Fate To
The Wind" (originally released as "Jazz Impressions of
`Black Orpheus'"). The album
includes four pieces by Louis Bonfa written for the movie
Black Orpheus; Guaraldi's
CAST YOUR FATE TO THE WIND (which became a top-40 hit);
and three other cuts.
The music for the soundtrack of 'Black Orpheus' was
originally written by Luiz Bonfa
and Antonio Carlos Jobim.
5.9) What collected recordings of Charlie Parker (Verve, Dial,
Savoy) are available?
There is the Complete Charlie Parker on Verve, which
contains both live and studio cuts
done for that label, along with a booklet containing
information aplenty.
Denon has released the box set, The Complete Savoy & Dial
Studio Recordings
1944-1948, as well as The Complete Live Performances on
Savoy, which contains all the
Royal Roost material, six tracks from a jam session in
Chicago in October 1950 and five
tracks from a Carnegie Hall concert with Dizzy Gillespie
in September 1947.
5.10) What are the latest issues of (insert label/artist/group)?
Rather than post to the newsgroup about this, it is best
to check the websites of the label
in question, since many (though by no means all)
important labels have their own sites by
now. A list of their URL's can be found on the WNUR
Jazzweb site at
http://www.wnur.org/jazz/labels.html
5.11) Who wrote Nardis, Blue in Green, Milestones, Donna Lee, Dig,
Impressions,
Tune Up, Four, Solar and Walkin'?
Michael Fitzgerald <fitz...@eclipse.net, offers the following
information regarding who we think
wrote the tunes, based on the evidence we have at the moment (please
read and digest all of this
information before posting to the newsgroup about it):
"Nardis is by Miles Davis, not Bill Evans as is sometimes suggested
(Miles never recorded it and Evans
loved it). If you listen to the original version on Portrait of
Cannonball (with Evans), it sounds much more
like a Miles tune than has been remembered from the Evans
interpretations, which make it sound like an
Evans tune. But then again, Bill makes 'Alice In Wonderland' sound like
an Evans tune."
"There is a recording of a live broadcast by Bill Evans where the
announcer credits it to Miles Davis and
Evans does not correct him (interesting, but inconclusive). Also,
interviewer Ben Sidran asked Miles Davis
about the title of the tune (it's Sidran spelled backwards, after all)
and Miles (also the author of tunes like
"Selim" and "Sivad") seemed surprised by that. He didn't mention that he
did not compose the tune."
"Blue In Green - the verdict is still out between Miles and Bill Evans,
(or a collaboration between the
two). Orrin Keepnews states that Evans told him to put his (Evans's)
name on it, while in his
autobiography, Miles claims to have written everything on Kind of Blue
(autobiography, p. 234), which
certainly isn't the whole truth as Evans introduction to 'Flamenco
Sketches' is taken from his earlier
arrangement of 'Some Other Time.'"
(Ed. note: At least partial credit for "Blue In Green" can be given to
Miles. The following is quoted from
the sleeve notes of Spring Leaves, a 1976 repackaging of Portrait in
Jazz and Explorations issued on
Milestone Records. Evans, in an interview with Conrad Silvert, said of
"Blue In Green":
"And actually it's my tune, even though Miles is credited as
co-writer for reasons only he
understands. One day at Miles' apartment, he wrote on some
manuscript paper the symbols for
G-minor and A-augmented and he said 'What would you do with
that?' I didn't really know,
but I went home and wrote 'Blue in Green.'")
"'Milestones' (the first one) is by John Lewis, not Miles, not
Bird. Parker expert Phil Schaap is the
source of this, contradicting Miles's autobiography (p. 105)."
"Donna Lee is by Miles, not Bird (who holds the copyright) - Gil
Evans is the source of this
clarification. He asked Parker for permission to arrange it for
the Claude Thornhill band and Bird
told him to "ask Miles - it's his tune." Davis says this was his
first composition to be recorded and
says that the erroneous crediting was a record company mistake (a
common occurrence) not an
attempt by Parker to claim the tune. (Autobiography, p. 104.) That
Parker executes the melody line
better than its composer is evidence only of Bird's musicianship.
Writing and performing are two
unrelated abilities. Phrases similar to those in 'Donna Lee' can
be heard in Fats Navarro's
improvisations on the tune 'Ice Freezes Red' (recorded for Savoy),
which like 'Donna Lee' is based
on 'Back Home Again in Indiana', but the connection is not
definitive. Navarro's recording is from
January 1947, while Parker and Davis recorded Donna Lee (for Savoy,
again) in May 1947. The
tune is named for bassist Curly Russell's
daughter."
"Dig is by Jackie McLean who called it Donna (it's based on Sweet
Georgia Brown). Miles recorded
it on Prestige as Dig, then on Blue Note as Donna. Miles addresses
this in his autobiography, p.
153."
"Impressions - Check Lewis Porter's 'John Coltrane: His Life and
Music' for information showing
the pieces Coltrane put together ('So What' by Miles Davis,
'Pavanne' by Morton Gould, 'Pavane
Pour Une Infante Defunte' by Maurice Ravel) to create this work.''
"'Tune Up' and 'Four' - Saxophonist Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson wrote
these, not Miles Davis."
"'Solar' - Guitarist Chuck Wayne, not Miles Davis, composed this
tune."
Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com has the following to say about
"Walkin'":
"Richard Carpenter [who is credited with writing it] was a
manager/entrepeneur. He was involved
with the careers of Gene Ammons and Tadd Dameron, among others.
Ammons is probably the
actual author of "Walkin'". He recorded a very similar tune 'El
Sino' with Leo Parker in 1947 (for
Savoy), and introduced 'Walkin'' under the title 'Gravy' in 1950
(Prestige). I don't have access to
the original 78 of 'Gravy', but all the LP reissues identify the
tune as 'Walkin'' and credit it to
Carpenter."
5.12) When is the Peter Keepnews biography on Thelonious Monk
coming out?
Nobody, not even Keepnews himself, knows. He's been
working on the book for over a
decade and has ceased making predictions for when he'll
be finished. For information on
other books on Monk that are currently available, go to
http://www.achilles.net:80/~howardm/books.html
5.13) What's the deal with Keith Jarrett groaning all the time?
And what is he ill with?
Opinions vary on Jarrett's vocal habits, but it is
important to note that he has been
groaning since 1967 at least, when he recorded his first
album as a leader, "Life Between
the Exit Signs." He has stated that it is an integral
part of his playing and that it is
impossible for him to stop, so who are we to argue?
Also, note that Oscar Peterson,
Errol Garner, Bud Powell, and even Thelonious Monk
are/were known on occasion to do
some groaning of their own.
Regarding Jarrett's health, Mark de Clive-Lowe
<ma...@xjazz.co.nzx wrote to r.m.b. on
3/10/98:
"Hi all, just went to a Jack Dejohnette clinic tonight -
it was fantastic and an
excellent follow up to seeing the Gateway trio on
Saturday night - Jack
and Dave especially were so amazing :) Anyway, at the
clinic Jack was
talking about the Standards Trio and said that Keith has
chronic fatigue
syndrome (I'd heard a rumour, but Jack saying it confirms
it for sure) and
has been on treatment that has him at about 60% health at
the moment. Jack
thinks he might be back on board by summer but definitely
by the next
summer. So, in short, he's getting better! :)" (Ed. note:
Jarrett returned to performance in
late 1998.)
5.14) What are Fake Books? What are Real Books?
"Fake books" are compilations of transcriptions of music,
intended as aids to help one to
learn to play the compositions. Many vary in accuracy.
Most are now legitimate in
regards to copyright payment.
The Real Book, on the other hand, was a compilation of
transcriptions done by some
Berklee students (that's Berklee College of Music in
Boston, not U. Cal. Berkeley) which
was photocopied and sold without any attention to
copyright. Supposedly the 'New Real
Book' has the same focus (mostly jazz standards) but with
fewer errors, and with the
proper copyright fees paid (and better readability). The
original Real Book proliferated
because of the usefulness of the tune selection compared
to that of other fake books (you
could get 'Dexterity' instead of 'California Here I
Come').
The original Berklee Real Book (currently labeled as
"Fifth Edition") is riddled with errors
of various kinds. Untold numbers of young players (a
third or fourth generation by now)
have learned tunes from this book in the wrong key, with
the wrong changes or the
wrong melody, or think the wrong person wrote it. A
project begging to be done by
some smart soul with time on his or her hands is to make
note of all the errors and put
them together on a website.
5.15) What's the deal with digipacks?
Digipaks are those cardboard things that labels like
Impulse, Verve, Enja, CTI, even
Sony/CBS have been issuing CDs in (as opposed to the more
common plastic jewel box).
There is a great deal of polarization regarding this
issue, with some people actually
"boycotting" the digipaks (no one has ever gone on record
as boycotting the jewel boxes).
Digipak cons:
Do not hold up and show wear easily (scratches, bent corners,
worn edges)
Impossible to refurbish (you must buy another entire CD - if
it's still in print) - important with
used CDs
The artwork and packaging are inseparable
More costly than jewel boxes (this is theoretically passed on
to the consumer)
Broken spokes (which hold the CD)
Digipak pros:
Nostalgia - more like the original Lp issue (if the album
originally came out prior to CDs)
More biodegradable?
Jewel box cons:
Cracked front/back panels
Broken spokes (which hold the CD)
Broken hinges (which hold the front panel on)
Less biodegradable?
Jewel box pros:
Easy to replace packaging only - which effectively creates a
mint condition package
Inexpensive to replace - check for computer stores who sell
these at 10 for $2.99
Protect the artwork/booklet better - the packaging is separate
from the
artwork
Less costly than digipaks (this is theoretically passed on to
the consumer)
Certainly the packaging has no real bearing on the
actual CD - you can put a great
(or poor) quality CD in either. The digipak and the
jewel box are both the same
size, so storage issues do not come into play. Good
reissues in jewel boxes can
supply excellent artwork, original covers, notes,
etc. but in a more modern
protective case.
Frequent responses to this discussion have been "Why
worry about the packaging -
it's the music that matters," but for some, having a
more Lp-like package (digipak)
or one that allows for cheap and easy refurbishment
(jewel box) is definitely
important. Occasionally, CDs are released in BOTH
forms, giving the consumer a
choice. If all digipak companies released jewel box
editions, those who are holding
out would welcome them with open wallets.
5.16) Does Mosaic Records have a web page, can I order online
or can I contact them
via email?
Their URL is: http://www.mosaicrecords.com.
Their email is <mos...@ix.netcom.com>.
Their other contact information is:
Mosaic Records
35 Melrose Place
Stamford, CT 06902-7533
Tel: 203-327-7111
Fax: 203-323-3526
5.17) What is the address/phone number for Cadence? Do they
have email or a method
for ordering online?
Their website can be found at:
http://www.cadencebuilding.com/Cadence/CadenceMagazine.html
5.18) Is anyone familiar with an LP titled Jazz Immortals
featuring Charley
Christian, Dizzy Gillespie and Thelonious Monk
recorded in the early 1940's?
Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com> says:
"This live material (released on Everest 1233) was
recorded in 1941 (when Diz was 24)
at Minton's in Harlem by a young college student named
Jerry Newman who owned an
early portable recording unit. Not all of the tracks
feature all three of the musicians, and
there has been considerable speculation as to whether or
not Monk is present. Two
tracks, Swing to Bop (aka Charlie's Choice) and Stompin'
at the Savoy were issued on
78rpm album sets in the late 40's. Some of the material
has seen issue on CD as "Charlie
Christian - Swing to Bop" (Natasha 4020)."
5.19) Who is playing the other saxophone at the end of the
"Psalm" movement of John
Coltrane's A Love Supreme?
The following is quoted from page 248 of John Coltrane:
His Life and Music, by Lewis
Porter:
"If you listen closely to the stereo separation at the
very end of "Psalm," you will hear
that another saxophonist joins Coltrane. This has
puzzled me for years -- Bob Thiele and
Archie Shepp told me they were unaware of it, and no
writer had ever mentioned this.
Rudy Van Gelder, after some thought, offered the
following: He distinctly recalls that
Coltrane overdubbed those notes himself. This would not
be the only time Coltrane
overdubbed -- some of his saxophone playing with Johnny
Hartman was added later, and
on "Living Space" in 1965 he overdubbed tenor and soprano
on the theme. But the
second saxophone here sounds like an alto, playing with a
big vibrato. And he only plays
an octave, but has trouble reaching the upper note --
hardly typical of Coltrane. Still, Van
Gelder's is certainly the best and most authoritative
answer we will get."
(Ed. note: As for the other possibilities for who could
have overdubbed the note, Lewis
says, "I didn't ask [John] Tchicai, but he listed the
times he worked with Trane and that
was not one. Pharoah [Sanders] may have still been in NY
then (before going back to
San Francisco for a year) so he's perhaps possible;
Marion Brown is the other who comes
to mind-- I haven't asked.")
5.20) What books that are considered good, standard
"references" for jazz?
There are many wonderful books available. Following is a
wholly arbitrary listing of
quality efforts:
General jazz overviews:
The Jazz Book - Joachim Berendt
Jazz: From its Origins to the Present - Lewis Porter
For early jazz figures and styles, check the following:
In Search of Buddy Bolden: First Man of Jazz - Donald
Marquis
Brass Bands and New Orleans Jazz -William Schafer
Satchmo:My Life in New Orleans -Louis Armstrong
Sidney Bechet:The Wizard of Jazz -John Chilton
New Orleans Style -Bill Russell
Other styles:
The Big Bands - George Simon
West Coast Jazz: Modern Jazz In California, 1945-1960 -
Ted Gioia
Two volumes on Duke Ellington are indispensable if one is
seriously interested in jazz
history:
Beyond Category: The Life and Genius of Duke Ellington -
John Hasse
The Duke Ellington Reader, edited by Mark Tucker
(One shouldn't ignore Duke's autobiography, Music Is My
Mistress, but be warned that
he took care to say nothing that would offend anybody, so
take it all with a grain of salt.)
Anyone, musician or non-musician, interested in how the
process of playing jazz actually
works should read Thinking In Jazz: The Infinite Art of
Improvisation - Paul F. Berliner.
If bebop is your thing, three books are very important:
Swing to Bop: An Oral History of the Transition in Jazz -
Ira Gitler
To Be Or Not To Bop - Dizzy Gillespie (autobiography)
Miles: The Autobiography - Miles Davis w/Quincy Troupe.
Yes, much is covered
beyond bebop, and parts of the book were lifted from
other books without credit, but it's
still one of the more informative books on the bebop era
ever published.
Other important biographies:
John Coltrane: His Life and Music - Lewis Porter
Space Is The Place: The Lives and Times of Sun Ra - John
F. Szwed
Pee Wee Russell: The Life of a Jazzman - Robert Hilbert
Lush Life: A Biography of Billy Strayhorn - David Hajdu
For even more information, go to your local library and
see if they have the New Grove
Encyclopedia of Jazz, which is chock full of enough to
keep you reading for weeks.
Naturally, if you read a great book on a musician or
aspect of the music, be sure to post
to the newsgroup to tell the rest of us about it.
5.21) What tunes are considered "standard" jazz tunes?
Esa Onttonen's website has an excellent list of
standards, by category:
http://amadeus.siba.fi/~eonttone/standard.html
Consult the Google news archive also, as this topic has
come up twice on the newsgroup,
with good discussions on both occasions.
5.22) What are some important "avant-garde" jazz recordings?
Walter Davis <wrd...@frosty.irss.unc.edu> has provided a
"primer" for this sector of
the jazz world, with the disclaimer that "it's hardly a
definitive answer to the question." It
can be found on my website at
http://www.bestweb.com/~msnyder/avantgarde/avant.htm.
5.23) What are some "jazz families"?
The following list includes sibling, spousal, and
parent-child relationsips. It is naturally
incomplete. In no particular order:
The Dodds Bros. (Johnny and Baby)
The Heath Bros. (Percy, Jimmy, Tootie, and Mtume is the
son of one of them)
The Jones Bros. (Hank, Thad, Elvin)
The Montgomery Bros. (Wes, Monk, Buddy)
The Ellington Family (Duke, Mercer, Paul Mercer)
The Coltrane Family (John, Alice, Ravi)
The Brubeck Family (Dave, Darius, Chris and Danny)
The Marsalis Family (Ellis, Branford, Wynton, Delfeayo
and Jason)
Ornette and Denardo Coleman
Jackie and Rene McLean
Dewey and Joshua Redman
Bucky and John Pizarelli
Von and Chico Freeman
Cannonball and Nat Adderley
Thelonious and T.S. Monk
Gil and Miles Evans (Gil and Bill Evans were not
related.)
Randy and Michael Brecker
Pete and Conte Condoli
Mike and Pat Metheny
Lee and Lester Young
Art and Addison Farmer (twins)
Terry and Gerry Gibbs
Gunther, Ed and George Schuller
Louis and Lil Armstrong
Zoot and Ray Sims
Adrian and Art Rollini
Marian and Jimmy McPartland
Ted and Dick Nash
Fletcher and Horace Henderson
Albert and Gene Ammons
Calvin and Phineas Newborn
Joe and Marty Marsala
Warren and Alan Vache
Jay and Michael Leonhart
Jimmy and Tommy Dorsey
Jimmy and Stacy Rowles
Charles and Charnett Moffett
Walter Bishop Sr. and Jr.
Kenny Drew Sr. and Jr.
Harold Land Sr. and Jr.
Ernie and Marshall Royal
Robin, Kevin, David and Duane Eubanks
Hubert and Ronnie Laws
Bud and Richie Powell
Paul and Carla Bley (they've been divorced for decades)
Dee Dee and Cecil Bridgewater
Charles and Chuck McPherson
Al and Joe Cohn
Albert & Emil Mangelsdorff
Joachim & Rolf Kuehn
Christian & Wolfgang Muthspiel
Jerry and Al Coker
Jamil and Zaid Nasser
Freddie and Nasheet Waits
5.24) What is the best method of storing large amounts of
CD's?
R. Lynn Rardin <rar...@orion.rose.brandeis.edu> offers
the following advice:
The question of storage options for large CD collections
arises from time
to time. Smaller collections are relatively easy to
store in widely
available racks that hold 40 to maybe 300 CDs. When a
collection grows to
750-1000, however, a more substantial storage system may
be desireable.
One option is bookshelf-type, pine racks. These are
available in a range of
capacities and dimensions and are often available at
record or furniture
stores. Prices for racks that store 700-750 CDs run
about $100-120.
Another option would be to find a company that builds
furniture and
have them build racks of this type to your
specifications. If you have
shelving built to your specs., consider having a shelf or
two configured
with more headspace to accommodate taller, nonstandard
cardboard packaging.
Collectors with the proper tools might also consider
fashioning their own
shelving systems or modifying stock shelving systems to
fit their needs.
Paul Heroy reports that he converted a nice looking
bookcase into a CD
storage system by adding extra shelves, then nailing
cheap molding to each
shelf forward of the rear of the shelf to serve as a
stop. Dave Royko
adds that the space behind the stops comes in handy for
storage of
infrequently accessed items.
Even the large bookshelf racks become problematic in
terms of wall space
used when a collection grows to a few thousand or more
CDs. A Canadian
company named Can-Am offers a more dense, stackable,
drawer-type system
for CD storage (see http://www.can-am.ca). Because of
the price ($387 plus
shipping for a 3 drawer system with dividers that holds
810 CDs), this system
will probably appeal mostly to the serious collector,
library or radio
station. But it offers several advantages over the pine
racks besides
allowing storage of more CDs per foot of wall space.
These advantages
include better security (the drawers are lockable), less
exposure to dust,
and better portability (each drawer stack can be mounted
on a base with
wheels).
Another option for increasing the density of CD storage
is to remove the
CDs, tray inserts and liner note booklets from their
jewel boxes, and put
them in poly sleeves like those sold by Bags Unlimited
(http://www.bagsunlimited.com/). This greatly
reduces the amount of shelf space required for a given
number of CDs.
But some people feel that this mode of storage leaves the
CDs and booklets
too vulnerable to damage and makes the CDs more difficult
to extract from
the package.
A few people have suggested that Case Logic soft-sided CD
cases
(http://www.caselogic.com/audio/index.html) can be used
to store a
large CD collection. While they do offer the potential
of storing a lot
of CDs in a small amount of space, they may be better
suited to making
part of your large collection easily portable rather than
serving as
a permanent storage solution for your entire collection.
5.25) I'm going to be in New York next week. Who's appearing
at the clubs?
Many of the clubs in New York have their own websites:
Village Vanguard
http://www.villagevanguard.net/
The Blue Note
http://www.bluenote.net/
Iridium
http://www.iridiumjazzclub.com
Birdland
http://www.birdlandjazz.com
The Knitting Factory
http://www.knittingfactory.com
Tonic
http://www.tonic107.com
For information on lots of other clubs, consult Gordon
Polatnick's New York City Jazz Club Bible:
http://www.bigapplejazz.com/nycjazzclubs.html
Naturally, it's always a good idea to call the club in
question to confirm all the information and make reservations if
necessary.
6) Where can I find a listing of local jazz record
stores/clubs/radio stations?
Bill Hery <w...@sonapub.wh.att.com compiled some lists of clubs and
stores for the WNUR site,
but be warned that they aren't maintained, so they could be out of
date:
Jazz Clubs Around the World:
http://www.wnur.org/jazz/lists/clubs.html
Jazz Music Stores Around the World:
http://www.wnur.org/jazz/lists/stores.html
7) Are there mailing lists for particular jazz artists?
A list of jazz mailing lists appears at
http://www.bestweb.com/~msnyder/mailinglists.htm
8) Is rec.music.bluenote archived anywhere?
Check the Google archive of Usenet postings
(http://www.google.com). This is an extremely
valuable resource and it should be taken advantage of. Before
posting on a particular topic or
question, it would be wise to check Google first to see whether it
has been discussed before, thereby
saving yourself and the newsgroup wasted time and bandwidth. The
archive houses postings dating
back to 1981 (long predating the genesis of the newsgroup).
9) Are there any other jazz-oriented newsgroups?
Rec.music.makers.jazz exists, according to its charter, for
"discussion by and for musicians on
the making of jazz." Rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz follows the same
lines with a focus on guitarists.,
though it often has discussions of interest to non-guitarists.
Alt.music.big-band and
rec.music.ragtime are self-explanatory, if you speak Italian
there's it.arti.musica.jazz, and if you
speak Polish there's pl.rec.muzyka.jazz.
10) Where can I find the current version of this FAQ?
It is posted to rec.music.bluenote once a month, and can also be
found on my website at
http://www.bestweb.com/~msnyder/rmbfaq.htm
11) Some final words (or, the editor climbs on his soapbox, hoping it is
of solid construction)
Rec.music.bluenote has been and should be a fantastic place for the
worldwide jazz community to
come together to learn from and educate one another. That model
has been threatened over the past
few years by corporate interests and by the habit of too many
individuals to ignore basic Usenet
etiquette and the group memory of r.m.b. itself. Just as we all
respect the music, we should all
respect one another and try to step above the silly flame wars that
hobble so much of Usenet.
Furthermore, we should all encourage new users to read this FAQ and
lurk for a while before
posting. They'll get the most out of the group, and chances are
that the group will get the best out of
them when they do post.
12) List of contributors
Thanks to the following for contributions, additions, corrections,
and updates:
Jeff Beer <jb...@or219a.e1.iit.edu>
Tom Brown <tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Nou Dadoun <dad...@cs.ubc.ca>
Walter Davis <wdavi...@mhs.unc.edu>
Michael Fitzgerald <fitz...@eclipse.net>
http://www.eclipse.net/~fitzgera
Joe Hellerstein <hel...@cs.wisc.edu>
Paul Heroy <Paul.Her...@nt.com>
Bill Hery <w...@sonapub.wh.att.com>
Garth Jowett <com...@rosie.uh.edu>
Bill Kenz <ke...@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Glenn Lea <Glen...@avid.com>
Gord McGonigal <mcgo...@my-deja.com> http://www.HandOfGord.com
Sandeep Mehta <sme...@lehman.com>
Lewis Porter <lrp...@aol.com>
R. Lynn Rardin <rar...@orion.rose.brandeis.edu>
Marc Sabatella <ma...@outsideshore.com>
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Marcel Franck Simon <min...@eclipse.net>
Dale Smoak <da...@shore.net>
Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com>
Steve Cooper
first started reading it several years ago. I wonder how many jazz
enthusiasts search the newsgroups for 'jazz' and look no further.
"Marc Sabatella" <ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote in message
news:F%_Ka.29$a_6....@news.uswest.net...
Chris L
news:ng6dndNrfri...@comcast.com:
> The traffic in this news group is pathetically low, much lower than
> when I first started reading it several years ago. I wonder how many
> jazz enthusiasts search the newsgroups for 'jazz' and look no further.
>
Maybe people quoting 1250+ lines of text to add a three line comment drove
them all away :)