CD players for music transcription
Richard Rodseth
What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
1) A-B repeat: the ability to mark a begin point and end point within a
track, and have the player repeat that section over and over.
2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
I know these functions are available in software, after sampling, and some
tape decks have pitch control. I believe Akai also makes a device called
the Riff-O-Matic, but it would be most convenient to have these functions
in a CD player.
Thanks
Richard
--
"It's no use prevaricating about the bush"
-- Wallace, in "The Wrong Trousers"
Marco Accattatis
Denon CD players have these features at an affordable price. I don't think
you will be able to find a player that will play the A-B section at a
slower speed but with the correct pitch since the pitch is related to the
speed of the playback (I might be wrong). I personally use a Denon DCD-695
and the speed control range is +-12% (I paid around $300 for it 2 years
ago).
Marco Accattatis
In article <rodseth-3006...@regulus57.wco.com>, rod...@wco.com
(Richard Rodseth) wrote:
> What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>
> 1) A-B repeat: the ability to mark a begin point and end point within a
> track, and have the player repeat that section over and over.
>
> 2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
> at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
>
> 3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
> whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
>
> I know these functions are available in software, after sampling, and some
> tape decks have pitch control. I believe Akai also makes a device called
> the Riff-O-Matic, but it would be most convenient to have these functions
> in a CD player.
Gabe M. Wiener
In article <rodseth-3006...@regulus57.wco.com>,
Richard Rodseth <rod...@wco.com> wrote:
>What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>
>1) A-B repeat: the ability to mark a begin point and end point within a
>track, and have the player repeat that section over and over.
About every CD player on the market has this feature.
>2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
>at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
No CD player has this feature. You need a digital audio workstation for
this because it is inherently not a real-time process.
>3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
>whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
There are a few Denon CD players that do this.
--
Gabe Wiener Dir., PGM Early Music Recordings |"I am terrified at the thought
A Div. of Quintessential Sound, Inc., New York | that so much hideous and bad
Recording-Mastering-Restoration (212) 586-4200 | music may be put on records
ga...@pgm.com http://www.pgm.com | forever."--Sir Arthur Sullivan
Richard Rodseth
> In article <rodseth-3006...@regulus57.wco.com>,
> Richard Rodseth <rod...@wco.com> wrote:
> >What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
> >
> >1) A-B repeat: the ability to mark a begin point and end point within a
> >track, and have the player repeat that section over and over.
>
> About every CD player on the market has this feature.
I'm not sure that that's true. Note that I was talking about repeating a
section of a track, not a whole track or sequence of tracks.
>
> >2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
> >at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
>
> No CD player has this feature. You need a digital audio workstation for
> this because it is inherently not a real-time process.
>
I suspected as much, but I wouldn't mind being limited to a short segment
length, and non-real-time operation.
> >3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
> >whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
>
> There are a few Denon CD players that do this.
>
Thanks. I guess a cassette player with a half-speed mode is the best
option for particularly difficult transcriptions.
Jay Rose
[someone asked about]
|: >2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
|: >at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
|:
|: No CD player has this feature. You need a digital audio workstation for
|: this because it is inherently not a real-time process.
Gabe probably considers a 20ms delay in a streaming device to be non-realtime.
Otherwise, there are lots of inline, non-DAW pitch shift solutions.
Eventide and Lexicon had the first ones in the late 1970s. Today you can
get pretty smooth inline devices from Eventide and TC among others.
These semi-realtime units (okay, they can be trimmed down to 5ms in
certain cirumstances) may blur 64th notes, but so do the software-only
versions. The splice process is similar in both.
Be warned: a good standalone pitch-shifter will cost you. But so will a
good time compression feature on a DAW.
|: >3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
|: >whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
|:
|: There are a few Denon CD players that do this.
There are also some reasonably-priced, rugged, rack-mount Marantz units
that do this.
-----------------Jay Rose's Digital Playroom--------------------
Clio/Emmy Winning Sound Design for Broadcast, Multimedia
617/277-0041 fax/232-8869
www.tiac.net/users/jcrose
Adrian Bartel
>> What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>>
...snip...
>> I know these functions are available in software, after sampling, and some
>> tape decks have pitch control. I believe Akai also makes a device called
>> the Riff-O-Matic, but it would be most convenient to have these functions
>> in a CD player.
There is a PC based program that is supposed to work with a CD-ROM
drive to do this, taking the red book audio straight from a CD instead
of sampling it first.
I haven't tried it yet. It's called turtle12.zip and is on winsite
(cica)
Cheers
Adrian
--------------------------------------------------------------
"It does not do to leave a live dragon
out of your calculations." -- Tolkien
--------------------------------------------------------------
Malcolm Wallace
> >What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>
> > at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
>
> No CD player has this feature. You need a digital audio workstation for
> this because it is inherently not a real-time process.
The Pioneer CDJ-1200 deck has real-time pitch-lock. It is a DJ deck, so
it has both tempo-shift (constant pitch) and pitch-shift controls.
Expensive though, at about $800 I think.
--------------------------------------------mal...@minster.york.ac.uk
Bart Wessel
rod...@wco.com (Richard Rodseth) wrote:
>What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>1) A-B repeat:
>2) Speed control without pitch change:
>3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
>whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
Not a CD player, but something that caught my attention way back: I recall that
several years ago there were ads in Guitar Player Magazine of a unit that may
be interesting to you. It is a recorder that can play back 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5
and 1/6 speed without pitch change.
I checked and found the add in the November 1993, page 156. Cost (then):
$439,95. Address in the add:
Ridge Runner Products, dept GP521
84 York Creek Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
1-800-FRET-PRO.
I have no business with them, don't even know if they're still in business.
Good luck.
Groetjes,
Bart.
Lucky
In article <4r8ulc$s...@panix.com> Gabe M. Wiener, ga...@pgm.com writes:
>In article <rodseth-3006...@regulus57.wco.com>,
>>What CD players, if any, are available with the following features:
>>
>>track, and have the player repeat that section over and over.
>
>About every CD player on the market has this feature.
Newmark and Denon DJ (Disk Jockey) CD units allow for "seemless" looping,
most home/domestic CD units have a short gap in playback as the laser
returns from B to A.
I can't comment on Technics DJ CD units as I havent seen any apart from
the original
SLP 1200 (mkI). I seem to recall that Gemini make a DJ CD unit as well -
again I can't recall specs on them.
>>2) Speed control without pitch change: the ability to play the A-B section
>>at a slower speed but the correct pitch.
The new Denon 2000FmkII allows for key shift at + - 16%.
This is independant of the playback speed or "pitch" (see 3).
I've only had a quick muck around on this new model, it only came in to
local shops last week. But it seems to work just a peach.
This seems to require a fair amount of processing power as the unit is
almost $100Aus
more than the next unit without Key shift.
>>3) Pitch control: the ability to vary the speed, and hence pitch, of the
>>whole CD. (For those out-of-tune CDs)
>
>There are a few Denon CD players that do this.
All Disk Jockey CD units do this by definition as vairiable speed control
is essential for beat mixing ( house/disco/techno/jungle etc. et. al.)
All allow speed (which is traditionally called pitch) adjustment of +-
8%, most allow
+- 16% might not sound like much but it is.
Most of the units availible are dual CD units - that is they have two
players built in to a single cd unit, having said that Newmark, Denon,
and (I Think) Gemini have a seperate control unit. This allows the player
to mounted vertically and the control unit horizontal (ie above or to
the side of mixing unit).
However all make single player units with the controls on the player.
If your using it for transcription of music this single unit is the more
cost effective, but still not cheap ($1000+ Australian approx). But none
of these have the Key adjust
- change speed and they _will_ change the Key (the new Denon with Key
shift has a price of about $3000 Australian). This would be OK if you are
using a keyboard for transcription as they have key change options, I
suppose if you are using a guitar you could tune down your strings?
I use them as a production tool so I can justify the cost, I'd have to
say if it's not a major part of your job then I'd use a tape unit with
speed control - which of course does not have key shift. If your
planning on buying a 4 track studio (or already have)
many of them have a half speed/high speed, so what I sometimes do is to
record a song at high speed and play it back at slow speed, which is half
speed so even though it is lower pitch it is one octave down so you just
play it one octave above the playback pitch.
Mark