Billie Holiday: Complete Verve Box?
John Jennings
Like most of us, I have X-mas money marked for
CDs (as if ALL my money isn't!) and I am eyeing
the Billie Holiday box. This got high grades
from reviewers and this period is supposed to be
one of Billie's best.
Any comments from Billie Holiday fans?
TIA,
J.
Jack Woker
A question such as this has as many answers as there are people who
love Billie! There is considerable disagreement about Billie's career,
and what's good and what isn't, so I'll offer my two cents worth, as
will others, I'm sure. Basically, one can divide Billie's recorded
career into three periods: the early years, 1933-1942, the middle years,
1943-1950, and the final years, 1950-1959. The Verve set covers the
final period, with some 1946 concert material thrown in.
Personally I love the early and middle years best. The early years,
available on nine chronologically arranged CD's on Columbia, feature the
youthful exhuberant Billie, in the company of jazz greats such as Teddy
Wilson, Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Buck Clayton, Ben Webster, et al.
On many of these sides, she is not the leader, just the vocalist in the
band, so her vocals are often limited to one chorus. The material is
often second rate Tin Pan Alley, yet Billie sings everything
beautifully. Furthermore, these being the oldest recordings, the sound
quality, while adequate, is primitive by today's standards. By the last
volume you can hear the development of the mature ballad singer we
know.
The second period is represented best on a beautifully packaged
two-CD set on GRP entitled "The Complete Decca Recordings", and during
this period the accompaniment tends to be more orchestral, less is heard
from the jazzmen, yet Billie is in great voice throughout. Some of my
all time favorite Billie sides are here.
The Verve years found Billie mostly in the company of jazz combos
again, yet by the mid-50's the voice had begun to deteriorate rather
seriously. There are, in addition to all of the sides she recorded for
Verve and MGM, two whole discs of rehearsals, something I listened to
once and never again! There are many gems here, to be sure, and I
commend producer Norman Granz for his good taste in providing Billie
with some of the best accompanists available (Ben Webster, Charlie
Shavers, Tony Scott, Benny Carter, etc), but the raspy quality of her
voice gets in the way for me much of the time.
jack
Jack Woker
ECR Jr wrote: (edited by jw)
>the whole issue of
> Billie's and Lester's late recordings is a touchy one for me (can't think
> of a better word). My daughter, 17, asked for some Billie Holiday cd's
> for Xmas, specifying only that certain songs be included. My wife went
> to some mall
> outlet and picked up a Verve disk that had some of the same titles. 15
> years or more separates the recording dates.
>
My wife and daughter smiled politely. Then she put on
> the Verve disk and they lit up. Both prefered the later recordings. >
This reaction is not uncommon, Ed, which is why I mentioned the sound
quality of the early recordings. Many people are just put off by the 78
era sound, quite simply. Furthermore, Billie's later recordings, for
many people, contain the pathos and tragedy that many expect from her,
and the timbre of her voice only adds to the drama. I know many people,
experienced jazz listeners and newbies alike, who think that "Lady in
Satin" (1958) is one of the most emotionally moving records ever made.
Others find it pretty near impossible to listen to, in that she seems to
almost "talk" the songs instead of singing them.
jack
ECR Jr
On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:17:25 -0800 Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote,
> Personally I love the early and middle years best. The early years...
feature >the youthful exhuberant Billie, in the company of jazz greats
such as Teddy
>Wilson, Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Buck Clayton, Ben Webster, et al.
>...The material is often second rate Tin Pan Alley, yet Billie sings
everything
>beautifully...By the last volume you can hear the development of the
mature >ballad singer we know.
> The second period is represented best on a beautifully packaged
>two-CD set on GRP entitled "The Complete Decca Recordings"...Some of my
>all time favorite Billie sides are here.
>...by the mid-50's the voice had begun to deteriorate rather
>seriously...There are many gems here, to be sure...but the raspy quality
of her
>voice gets in the way for me much of the time.
Jack, excuse my editing of your comments. I did it for space reasons
only. I had an interesting experience on this subject over the Holidays.
In general, I agree with Jack's assessment, though the whole issue of
Billie's and Lester's late recordings is a touchy one for me (can't think
of a better word). My daughter, 17, asked for some Billie Holiday cd's
for Xmas, specifying only that certain songs be included. Be assured,
she's into rap, "bass" (or is it "base"?) and all the other up to date,
post hip-hop stuff. I made no comment but I was pleased. My wife said
she would pick up something. My wife is not a jazz buff. I said I would
do it. I felt, thinking like Jack, that I would search out a collection
of the early stuff that had the titles my daughter was looking for. So I
went to a local Tower and spent about 30 minutes in the Holiday section
comparing dates, titles, etc., and came up with two disks of which I was
quite proud...to the point of being smug. My wife went to some mall
outlet and picked up a Verve disk that had some of the same titles. 15
years or more separates the recording dates.
Now, my wife knows Billie and has a politically correct respect for her
but she really prefers Sarah and Carmen. On Xmas morning, we played the
disks which had carefully selected and I pointed to the Prez obligatos
(sp?) but tried not to make a point of it (those of you with 17 year olds
will understand). My wife and daughter smiled politely. Then she put on
the Verve disk and they lit up. Both prefered the later recordings. And
I would have expected neither to make excuses for Billie's "deteriorating"
voice.
Maybe they just did it to put me in my place.
You never know.
Ed Rhodes
Gregory Monahan
Jack Woker (ste...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: ECR Jr wrote: (edited by jw)
: >the whole issue of
: > Billie's and Lester's late recordings is a touchy one for me (can't think
: > of a better word). My daughter, 17, asked for some Billie Holiday cd's
: > to some mall
: > outlet and picked up a Verve disk that had some of the same titles. 15
: > years or more separates the recording dates.
: My wife and daughter smiled politely. Then she put on
: > the Verve disk and they lit up. Both prefered the later recordings. >
: This reaction is not uncommon, Ed, which is why I mentioned the sound
: quality of the early recordings. Many people are just put off by the 78
: era sound, quite simply. Furthermore, Billie's later recordings, for
: many people, contain the pathos and tragedy that many expect from her,
: and the timbre of her voice only adds to the drama. I know many people,
: experienced jazz listeners and newbies alike, who think that "Lady in
: Satin" (1958) is one of the most emotionally moving records ever made.
: Others find it pretty near impossible to listen to, in that she seems to
: almost "talk" the songs instead of singing them.
: jack
To this very elegant exchange, I'd add that the Commodore material
recorded close in time to the Decca stuff, is also very fine. It's
sometimes called the "Strange Fruit" sessions since that famous
performance was recorded then. Does anyone know if Billie's Commodore
stuff is available on cd in any complete/organized/good sound version?
Count me, BTW, as one who sort of prefers the Decca stuff. Jack's
observation about Billie "talking" instead of singing occasionally holds
true for other singers late in their careers--or even early. I love
Dinah Washington most of the time, but occasionally, she'd do that
talking thing that drives me nuts.
Greg
Jack Woker
Gregory Monahan wrote:
>
> To this very elegant exchange, I'd add that the Commodore material
> recorded close in time to the Decca stuff, is also very fine. It's
> sometimes called the "Strange Fruit" sessions since that famous
> performance was recorded then. Does anyone know if Billie's Commodore
> stuff is available on cd in any complete/organized/good sound version?
MCA/GRP, who purchased the Commodore catalog from Milt Gabler recently,
has announced a two-CD set to be issued sometime in January, as part of
a new series of Commodore releases. Since she only recorded 16 titles
for Commodore, one assumes that there will be alternates galore, at
least one for each title. While I am all for the inclusion of as much
material as possible on a reissue, it distresses me somewhat that they
have chosen to go this route. Imo, the various Commodore takes, and
I've heard them before, are not radically different from one another,
and it seems to me that making this a two disc set will hurt sales
considerably, unless they also plan a master takes set (a "best of", if
you will) for those who would rather avoid this kind of duplication.
jack
Martin S. Milgrim
Gregory Monahan wrote:
>
> To this very elegant exchange, I'd add that the Commodore material
> recorded close in time to the Decca stuff, is also very fine. It's
> sometimes called the "Strange Fruit" sessions since that famous
> performance was recorded then. Does anyone know if Billie's Commodore
> stuff is available on cd in any complete/organized/good sound version?
I have a Commodore label CD (actually put out in 1988 by the Special
Music Co. and Pair Records) of the complete Commodore sessions, i.e.,
the 4 tracks (including "Strange Fruit") from '39 and the 12 tracks
recorded in '44. Sound is in original mono. Matrix number is CCD
7001. Good luck finding it.
Marty
Martin S. Milgrim
Jack Woker wrote:
>
> MCA/GRP, who purchased the Commodore catalog from Milt Gabler recently,
> has announced a two-CD set to be issued sometime in January, as part of
> a new series of Commodore releases. Since she only recorded 16 titles
> for Commodore, one assumes that there will be alternates galore, at
> least one for each title. While I am all for the inclusion of as much
> material as possible on a reissue, it distresses me somewhat that they
> have chosen to go this route. Imo, the various Commodore takes, and
> I've heard them before, are not radically different from one another,
> and it seems to me that making this a two disc set will hurt sales
> considerably, unless they also plan a master takes set (a "best of", if
> you will) for those who would rather avoid this kind of duplication.
> jack
I agree. I have the 2 LPs put out around 15 years ago or so of the
Commodore masters with alternates and the takes are indeed, quite
similar.
Marty
Tony Cortizas, Jr.
And I would add...
I like all of BH's periods (Columbia, Decca, and Verve), but the Verve
recordings were my first and still my favorite. The box set is excellent,
but perhaps only a necessity for the completist (such as me). There are
numerous Verve collection CDs available as alternatives. I tend to favor
small group accompaniment of large bands, so the Verves best suit my taste.
And as has been said BH was lucky in having Ben Webster, Jimmy Rowles, etc.
accompaning her. Webster is just fantastic.
Also I have the Commodore CD mentioned below. It is extremely hard to find.
I've seen it just once and bought it. Of all of her recordings I think
these are among the weakest. Indifferent supporting group/arrangements mar
this work IMHO.
TonyC
In article <32CF16...@gate.net>, "Martin S. Milgrim"
Paul M. Ramey
Tony Cortizas, Jr. wrote:
>
> And I would add...
>
> I like all of BH's periods (Columbia, Decca, and Verve), but the Verve
> recordings were my first and still my favorite. The box set is excellent,
> but perhaps only a necessity for the completist (such as me). There are
> numerous Verve collection CDs available as alternatives.
I quite like the 2 CD Verve compilation "First Issue: The Great American
Songbook"..."Lady in Autumm" looked pretty good too.
Paul (pmr...@lex.infi.net)
SGribetz
It's not the "78 era sound", it's the way the engineering have screwed it
up in reissuing
Jeff Beer
When I think of Billie's late recordings, I think of a recent
comment by Anthony Braxton of Frank Sinatra, something to the
effect that Sinatra was past the point of having any kind of
pitch, so he was dealing completely in his life experiences.
I get the same with late Billie, whatever she sings, she makes
it sound like nothing but the truth!
Jeff