Coltrane-Wes Montgomery

[tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu]

In article <wells-27119...@palpk-s11.intac.com> we...@intac.com (Larry Cantwell) writes:
>Hi.Does anyone know if there are any recordings of the brief time in the
>early 60's that Wes was with the Coltrane quartet and if so where I might
>find this in the NYC area. Thanks.

If they exist, they're currently lost. No one seems to know
of any recordings being made. Sorry.

[Larry Cantwell]

[andyg...@aol.com]

Wes played with Coltrane, I've never heard of this before can anyone give
me any details?

Andy

[Michael Crutcher]

In article <19961128020...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
andyg...@aol.com wrote:

I guess Wes was in the group, including Eric Dolphy and Wes had some
ideas that he felt that the other players should edit themselves a bit to
give Coltrane some more room. H didn't really believe in the magnum opus
style of composing and playing in which the tune may go on for 25 min. at
a time, and he felt pretty lost in Coltrane's group. They were supposed to
record, but Wes didn't feel he was good enough to be in Coltrane's group
and left. This is supposedly where the Coltrane/Kenny Burrell recordings
came into play. Coltrane wanted to record with guitar and when wes left,
'Trane decided on Burrell.
So if there are any recordings out there, they are bootlegs. Don't hold
your breath.

Mike C.

[Doug Wamble]

Actually, that wouldn't be accurate since Burrell was never
in Trane's group. Besides, the recorded together in '57 and
maybe '58(not counting the earlier stuff with Dizzy). The
classic "Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane" album was, in fact,
Burrell's date as a leader. Trane was just a sideman. The other
recording(I have it as "The Cats")was Tommy Flanagan's date.
--
Doug Wamble-Guitarist
Swin...@nwu.edu
http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~cds653

[Jack Woker]

> This is supposedly where the Coltrane/Kenny Burrell recordings
> came into play. Coltrane wanted to record with guitar and when wes left,
> 'Trane decided on Burrell.

Not true - Burrell and Trane recorded together in 1957 and 58, on studio
pickup dates that were not working units. Wes Montgomery's very short
stint with Trane's band was in 1961.
jack

[Ed Rhodes, Jr.]

Doug Wamble <Swin...@nwu.edu> wrote:

>Michael Crutcher wrote:
>>
>> In article <19961128020...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>> andyg...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > Wes played with Coltrane, I've never heard of this before can anyone give
>> > me any details?
>> >
>> > Andy
>>
>> I guess Wes was in the group, including Eric Dolphy and Wes had some
>> ideas that he felt that the other players should edit themselves a bit to
>> give Coltrane some more room. H didn't really believe in the magnum opus
>> style of composing and playing in which the tune may go on for 25 min. at
>> a time, and he felt pretty lost in Coltrane's group. They were supposed to
>> record, but Wes didn't feel he was good enough to be in Coltrane's group
>> and left.

Montgomery was in Coltrane's group in September of '61, during a West
Coast swing by what had been the Coltrane quintet w/Dolphy (Montgomery
made it a sextet). They spent 2 weeks at the Jazz Workshop in San
Francisco and appeared at the Monterey Jazz Festival on 9/22 (some
accounts have it as 9/24). There has been speculation over the last
35 years that he left because of reasons like the ones Michael cites
above but it should be emphasized that it is speculation. To my
knowledge, none of the principals were ever directly quoted to this
effect. I consider it to be an open issue.

>> This is supposedly where the Coltrane/Kenny Burrell recordings
>> came into play. Coltrane wanted to record with guitar and when wes left,
>> 'Trane decided on Burrell.

>> So if there are any recordings out there, they are bootlegs. Don't hold
>> your breath.
>>
>> Mike C.

>Actually, that wouldn't be accurate since Burrell was never
>in Trane's group. Besides, the recorded together in '57 and
>maybe '58(not counting the earlier stuff with Dizzy). The
>classic "Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane" album was, in fact,
>Burrell's date as a leader. Trane was just a sideman. The other
>recording(I have it as "The Cats")was Tommy Flanagan's date.

Ditto to Doug's account. "The Cats" is '57 and Burrell/Coltrane is
'58. These recordings have absolutely nothing to do with Wes's tenure
in Coltrane's band.

As for recordings of the Coltrane/Dolphy/Montgomery sextet, there have
also been recurring rumors that the Monterey performance was recorded
and Fujioka lists it, sort of "just in case". No tapes of this or the
Jazz Workshop gig have surfaced, though.

Ed Rhodes

[o2b...@aol.com]

I have never heard of any unfortunately and the coltrane estate confirms
that they dont exist.

[media...@aol.com]

This was about the time Wes did those great versions of Impressions, on
several of his lps.

John Motavalli