Branford Marsalis (terrible Dallas Morning News Review)
Erdal Paksoy
(an upscale part of North Dallas) last night (4/28/99).
I am a big fan of his acoustic jazz groups and enjoyed
the concert tremendously despite very adverse conditions.
The room at Sambuca in Addison has horrendous acoustics.
On top of that, the club made no effort to tell the patrons
to keep quiet during the show (not that this should have been
necessary in the first place). Half the "audience" engaged
in rude, loud and continuous chit chat throughout
the concert, as if they were in the presence of a wedding
band. I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at the sincere
effort the band made to concentrate. The music that came
out was still full of creativity, great dynamics, incredible
interplay, polyrhythms, tempo variations, and lyricism.
All of this, however, seems to have been lost on Mr. Marc Lee,
a so-called "music critic" for the Dallas Morning News, which
claims to be a respectable newspaper. His criticism was that
the music was too loud, and that it drowned out the small talk. I tried to find some irony in the review, but I don't
think it is there. I direct you to the review online. This critic has botched jazz reviews in the Dallas Morning News before. I am considering writing a letter to the editor complaining about this
reviewer.
Did anybody else attend the concert? Any opinions on this
review?
http://www.dallasnews.com/arts-nf/over1-064.htm
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------Erdal Paksoy Email:pak...@csc.ti.com
Media Technologies Laboratory, Texas Instruments Phone:(972) 997-6446
PO Box 655303 MS 8374, Dallas, TX 75265 FAX :(972) 997-5786
SwingDoug
>considering writing a letter to the editor complaining about this
>reviewer.
You should definitely do that. What a crock of poo. It's as though Branford is
supposed to be dinner music or something. I did like the part where he
mentioned that Branford played Bari sax. Yeah, like that would ever happen!
Walter Davis
Erdal Paksoy <pak...@csc.ti.com> wrote:
>I went to a concert by Branford Marsalis in Addison
>(an upscale part of North Dallas) last night (4/28/99).
>I am a big fan of his acoustic jazz groups and enjoyed
>the concert tremendously despite very adverse conditions.
>The room at Sambuca in Addison has horrendous acoustics.
>On top of that, the club made no effort to tell the patrons
>to keep quiet during the show (not that this should have been
>necessary in the first place). Half the "audience" engaged
>in rude, loud and continuous chit chat throughout
>the concert, as if they were in the presence of a wedding
>band. I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at the sincere
>effort the band made to concentrate. The music that came
>out was still full of creativity, great dynamics, incredible
>interplay, polyrhythms, tempo variations, and lyricism.
>
>All of this, however, seems to have been lost on Mr. Marc Lee,
>a so-called "music critic" for the Dallas Morning News, which
>claims to be a respectable newspaper. His criticism was that
>the music was too loud, and that it drowned out the small talk.
Well, I don't think he's really complaining that it drowned out the
small talk. He's complaining that Marsalis (in his view) felt it
necessary to drown out the small talk and so turned up the volume and
played a set with little dynamics in volume. The set he describes is
one where every tune is taken at breakneck speed and full force, which,
especially for someone expecting an evening of mainstream jazz, can be a
bit much. Of course, I have no way of knowing if that description is
accurate (since I wasn't there). And why he chooses to place the blame
with Marsalis rather than the audience and/or the restaurant for not
quieting the crowd is a good question.
That said, it actually sounds to me like Branford was indulging his
"expressionistic free jazz" side and the critic didn't get it.
-walt
Walter Davis walter...@unc.edu
Health Data Analyst at the ph: (919) 962-1019
Institute for Research in Social Science fax: (919) 962-8980
UNC - Chapel Hill
Carlton Jackson
>
> I went to a concert by Branford Marsalis in Addison
> (an upscale part of North Dallas) last night (4/28/99).
> I am a big fan of his acoustic jazz groups and enjoyed
> the concert tremendously despite very adverse conditions.
> The room at Sambuca in Addison has horrendous acoustics.
> On top of that, the club made no effort to tell the patrons
> to keep quiet during the show (not that this should have been
> necessary in the first place). Half the "audience" engaged
> in rude, loud and continuous chit chat throughout
> the concert, as if they were in the presence of a wedding
> band. I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at the sincere
> effort the band made to concentrate. The music that came
> out was still full of creativity, great dynamics, incredible
> interplay, polyrhythms, tempo variations, and lyricism.
>
> All of this, however, seems to have been lost on Mr. Marc Lee,
> a so-called "music critic" for the Dallas Morning News, which
> claims to be a respectable newspaper. His criticism was that
> reviewer.
In reference to the people attending the concert, as a fully
functioning live player myself, it is always a mystery to me that todays
audiences do not have the social skills to keep their conversations to
at least a minimum during a performance, but then I have to remember
that we (the musicians) are dealing with a new generation of people who
have no experience in attending concerts and using the proper etiquette
while at the concert.
I am not asking for "Keith Jarrett silence", per se....just some common
sense /respect from people when they are expecting to be entertained by
someone with the musical magnitude of a Branford Marsalis.
I, for one, would have not been surprised if BM had asked the audience
for some quiet, but maybe he was ambivilent about the whole thing.
As to the reviewer of the concert....DON"T let that person get away with
a misinformed review. Let him have it with both barrels!!! Make him
accountable for his words! Maybe if enough people write in about this
inferior scribe, he will either lose his job, or he will learn from the
feedback from the people he writes for. The level of critical
qualifications of some of these people leave lots to be desired, because
those people are not "road tested" with their practical experience in
writing about such a creative and subjective music such as jazz.
I have played in Dallas before....it wasn't a memorable experience. Not
from the playing standpoint. It was truly the audience that left lots to
be desired.
--
cjac...@teleport.com
Sou...@aol.com
Monk5by5
>functioning live player myself, it is always a mystery to me that todays
>audiences do not have the social skills to keep their conversations to
>at least a minimum during a performance, but then I have to remember
>that we (the musicians) are dealing with a new generation of people who
>have no experience in attending concerts and using the proper etiquette
>while at the concert.
What a pleasure to be able to see Charles Gayle play in the main space at the
knit-where one would never hear a word-save for the sound of the band. IMO-the
best place to hear a jazz band. The audience is 100% respectful of the
musicians and the music.
Jack Woker
> In reference to the people attending the concert, as a fully
> functioning live player myself, it is always a mystery to me that todays
> audiences do not have the social skills to keep their conversations to
> at least a minimum during a performance, but then I have to remember
> that we (the musicians) are dealing with a new generation of people who
> have no experience in attending concerts and using the proper etiquette
> while at the concert.
This is nothing new. Yesterday I was listening to a Jazz at the
Philharmonic recording from Carnegie Hall 1949 (from the boxed set) and
was appalled at the noisy, rowdy audience during the Ella Fitzgerald and
Coleman Hawkins sets. They seemed to be at a sports event. In the last
30 years or so, we have come to expect quiet behavior from audiences,
but this hasn't always been the case.
jack
Nordwell, Kurt (BNR:BNRTP:3I38)
>
> Did anybody else attend the concert? Any opinions on this
> review?
>
> http://www.dallasnews.com/arts-nf/over1-064.htm
>
Fascinating. A band with exploding energy is bad for dinner
music and drowns out conversation. At least that is my
assessment. Did you come to see Branford? No, I came for the
prime rib and the salad bar.
Peace,
Kurt
Walter Davis
Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>This is nothing new. Yesterday I was listening to a Jazz at the
>Philharmonic recording from Carnegie Hall 1949 (from the boxed set) and
>was appalled at the noisy, rowdy audience during the Ella Fitzgerald
and
>Coleman Hawkins sets. They seemed to be at a sports event. In the
last
>30 years or so, we have come to expect quiet behavior from audiences,
>but this hasn't always been the case.
not to mention that audience at Newport for Ellington in 56 ... but then
I like a rowdy audience as long as the reason they're rowdy is the
music.
Walter Davis
Carlton Jackson <cjac...@teleport.com> wrote:
>that we (the musicians) are dealing with a new generation of people who
>have no experience in attending concerts and using the proper etiquette
>while at the concert.
>
not a concert hall, and that talkative audiences in clubs are as old as
clubs themselves. I won't excuse the audience's behavior (trust me,
talkers drive me up the wall too), but to blame this on a "new
generation" is ridiculous and, good or bad, noisy clubs have always been
a problem, so you need to find a way to deal with it.
Greg Evans
> ... good or bad, noisy clubs have always been
> a problem, so you need to find a way to deal with it.
That's what the "11" is for on your amp's volume control! :)
Gary Milliken
>Fascinating. A band with exploding energy is bad for dinner
>music and drowns out conversation. At least that is my
>assessment. Did you come to see Branford? No, I came for the
>prime rib and the salad bar.
This sounds to me like the closest description of the "problem".
The fault lies not with the band, or the audience, or even the
reviewer, but with the people who decided to hire Branford for
this type of gig in the first place. Plus, I have read in this
newsgroup about past gigs at which Branford proved himself quite
unwilling to tone down what he was doing for the sake of winning
over the audience, a trait that the promoters clearly knew nothing
about when they chose him.
GM
Chris Metzler
In article <37290E...@ix.netcom.com>,
Jack Woker <ste...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>This is nothing new. Yesterday I was listening to a Jazz at the
>Philharmonic recording from Carnegie Hall 1949 (from the boxed set) and
>was appalled at the noisy, rowdy audience during the Ella Fitzgerald and
>Coleman Hawkins sets. They seemed to be at a sports event. In the last
>30 years or so, we have come to expect quiet behavior from audiences,
>but this hasn't always been the case.
I was listening to this earlier this week. I dunno -- I'm not a
professional musician or anything, but this doesn't bother me as
much, because the rowdiness seems music-induced. In other words,
the noise isn't so much a bunch of people chatting as a bunch of
people getting fired up by the music. That seems different, to
me, from people who want the music to be unobtrusive background
noise. YMMV.
-c
--
Chris Metzler Work Address: Loomis Laboratory of Physics
217-333-1065 (office) University of Illinois
met...@snip-me.uiuc.edu 1110 W. Green Street
(remove "snip-me." to email, of course) Champaign, IL 61801-3080 USA
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
oaks...@my-dejanews.com
walter...@unc.edu (Walter Davis) wrote:
> In article <3728BC...@teleport.com>,
> Carlton Jackson <cjac...@teleport.com> wrote:
> >that we (the musicians) are dealing with a new generation of people who
> >have no experience in attending concerts and using the proper etiquette
> >while at the concert.
> >
> maybe you (the musicians) should remember when you're playing a club,
> not a concert hall, and that talkative audiences in clubs are as old as
> clubs themselves. I won't excuse the audience's behavior (trust me,
> talkers drive me up the wall too), but to blame this on a "new
> a problem, so you need to find a way to deal with it.
>
>
Here’s a way Miles dealt with it one time. This was the group with Miles,
Wayne, Herbie, Tony, and Ron. While the quintet performing at Lennie’s on the
Turnpike in West Peabody, Mass, at one point during a set the bartender
turned on the TV to catch up on some ball game. I’m sitting on the side of
the audience with the bar on my right and kind, so we’re hearing the music
from the band and simultaneously the TV sportscast. Miles hears what’s going
on and directs the band to play pianissississimo while gesturing toward the
TV, as if to say, “Now guys, be courteous and don’t prevent anyone from
watching TV.” And the band was smoking! All at pianissississimo! A couple of
times Tony would start to take the volume up, but Miles would push it back
down again, once more gesturing toward the TV. (What a courteous guy!)
Unbelievably, this went on for about 5 minutes before the bartender finally
got the point. Rushing over to the set, he turned it off. Immediately the
band was...BLAM! Blast off! I don’t know if anybody else has tried this
approach, but it certainly did the job for the rest that week. The problem
never recurred. (The irony of this is that Lennie Sogoloff was the kind of
club owner who would from time to time come out and tell the audience to stop
talking during an artist’s performance.)
oakstaff
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Clay Moore
> I have toured and played in many venues here and abroad, where talking
> above the band is most certainly NOT the norm (Jazz Alley in Seattle is
> a perfect example of an ideal place to listen to music), only because
> the CLUB takes it upon themselves to make the cursory announcement ot
> keeping conversations to a minimum, so that EVERYONE can enjoy the great
> music that they are presenting that evening. This reels in the attention
> of the audience, so at least the modicum of expected behaviour is set.
Carlton,
This is the crux of the biscuit. The club is entirely responsible, IMO,
for the standard of behavior of the audience. If a club tolerates
boisterous behavior, then the patrons who behave this way will keep
coming back, and the ones who it offends will not. Jazz Alley is a great
club, for the reason that the music is paramount in importance. Clubs
I've been to in Europe are fairly respectful as well.
I play regularly in a jazz club where I've never seen anyone disciplined
for their behavior in any way. One night I watched (from the audience,
in this case) while two big drunk jock-like guys near the bandstand were
horsing around, pushing each other, grabbing each other in headlocks,
and the management did _nothing_. Another guy, who was with his date got
up a couple of times and first asked, then told them to settle down, to
no avail. The couple left, and the girlfriend pushed one of the jocks
almost over a table. It was obvious to everyone except the management
that these guys were ruining the music for everyone else. In this same
place a few weeks ago, a guy came up to about ten feet from the stage
and starting screaming at me while I was playing to "SHUT THE F&%^ UP!!"
Again, he was not dealt with in any way. Unfortunately it's one of the
only clubs in town where you can play real jazz, and not lounge jazz.
--
Clay Moore
http://home.earthlink.net/~guitarbuddy/
Clay Moore
>
> This critic has botched jazz reviews in the Dallas Morning News before. I am considering writing a letter to the editor complaining about this
> reviewer.
I would write the paper and tell them what you think.
Erdal Paksoy
I did write a letter. It is a bit harsh, but
I was really mad at the crowd and at the reviewer.
Here it is:
----------- letter to Dallas Morning News ---------
I was astounded by the incompetence displayed by Dallas
Morning News music critic Marc Lee in his review of the
Branford Marsalis Quartet's April 28 appearance at
Sambuca in Addison.
The show was unfortunately greatly hindered by the always
horrendous acoustics of said venue and, above all, an utterly
rude portion of the crowd, which was not only incapable of
appreciating the artistry of this terrific band, but also
unwilling to demonstrate the elementary courtesy of keeping
their conversations to a minimum. Under these
circumstances, the members of the quartet displayed remarkable
professionalism and consideration. They managed to create
outstanding music and reach the true jazz lovers in the
audience who strained to take in every note despite the
persistent howl of the impetuous chit-chat.
Mr. Lee clearly was not one of those jazz lovers. In his
review, he manages to reverse the responsibility for the noise
from the audience to the musicians, describing their efforts
with words such as "screeching", "deafening", "pushing",
"noise", "swinging blindly".
It is my opinion that a good reviewer must be more educated
about his subject matter than the average patron attending the
performance. This review is evidence that Mr. Lee's
appreciation does not rise much above the lowest common
denominator.
In the ultimate display of ignorance, Mr. Lee misidentifies
Marsalis' instrument as the baritone saxophone. Evidently, Mr.
Lee could not recognize a tenor saxophone if it hit him in the
head. It goes without saying that, in the event of such a
collision, my sympathy would lie with the musical instrument.
Erdal Paksoy
Richardson
PS. This is not the first instance of sub-par work by this
critic.(See for example "Label's Latest Feels Rehashed: Blue
Note Artists Let Loose Intense Outpourings at Gypsy Tea Room",
3/11/99). The Metroplex, s home to UNT, one of the best jazz
schools in the country. I am confident that the Morning News
would have no trouble finding hundreds of area residents
better qualified to review jazz than Mr. Lee.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Davis
Carlton Jackson <cjac...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>walter davis wrote:
>
>>maybe you (the musicians) should remember when you're playing a club,
>>not a concert hall, and that talkative audiences in clubs are as old
as
>>clubs themselves. I won't excuse the audience's behavior (trust me,
>>talkers drive me up the wall too), but to blame this on a "new
>>generation" is ridiculous and, good or bad, noisy clubs have always
been
>>a problem, so you need to find a way to deal with it.
>
actually
>giving your generation some credit for at least attempting to pay some
>respect). I don't get this kind of action from the older members of my
>audience. If they are not half-baked when they come in the door, then
>they are generally into what is going on, and they set the pace of the
>atmosphere that will ensue that evening
oh please. First off, you have no idea what "my generation" is. Second
off, those same people you now so deeply respect were yacking their
heads off when they were "that age." There may be an age difference,
but there's no generational difference. For god's sake, listen to any
live recording from the 50's or 60's -- quiet as churchmice those folks.
In fact, I'll go farther. At the shows I help present, it seems the
younger the audience, the quieter and more respectful they are. They
keep quiet, they don't walk out in the middle of tunes, they don't sit
down in the middle of tunes. I've been in rock clubs where you could
hear a pin drop, but I'm not sure I've ever been to a concert (in a
concert hall) where some older couple near me wasn't talking.
I'm sorry, but you go see Branford Marsalis in a restaurant and you have
no reason to expect a quiet audience. Restaurants are noisy places and
people like to talk while they're eating. I wish everyone would quiet
down too, but this has been going on forever and will continue to go on,
so I don't see that we have much choice but just to deal with it. If
you want concert hall behavior, then go to a concert hall.
Nordwell, Kurt (BNR:BNRTP:3I38)
>
> In fact, I'll go farther. At the shows I help present, it seems the
> younger the audience, the quieter and more respectful they are. They
> keep quiet, they don't walk out in the middle of tunes, they don't sit
> down in the middle of tunes. I've been in rock clubs where you could
> hear a pin drop, but I'm not sure I've ever been to a concert (in a
> concert hall) where some older couple near me wasn't talking.
>
For the record, the most respectful audience I have ever seen (and I
was surprised) was at a Phish concert. The worst ever was Jimmy Buffett,
but then again to that crowd the music was secondary. The party was more
important. Jazz shows are 50-50.
Personally, I think the lack of respect is a combination of factors.
I think bad home training is part of it, the "me first" attitude of
the 90's, and the fact that in today's society a $45 ticket is a
license to do whatever enhances your concert experience - talking
especially.
Peace,
Kurt
Walter Davis
"Nordwell, Kurt (BNR:BNRTP:3I38)" <nord...@nortelnetworks.com>
wrote:
>Personally, I think the lack of respect is a combination of factors.
>I think bad home training is part of it, the "me first" attitude of
>the 90's, and the fact that in today's society a $45 ticket is a
>license to do whatever enhances your concert experience - talking
>especially.
and I'll again state that loud talking and other forms of rude behavior
have been a characteristic of club audiences forever. I don't think
those KC gin joints were exactly quiet, demure settings. As such, I
hypothesize it has nothing to do with 90's attitudes or the rise in
ticket prices. Clubs are just noisy -- people go there to have a good
time, drink, hang out with friends. There's nothing new in that.
Jesus, weren't you people ever young? Didn't you used to go out with
friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a little
rowdy, have a good time? Wasn't there sometimes a band playing in the
background when you did that?
SwingDoug
>friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a little
>rowdy, have a good time? Wasn't there sometimes a band playing in the
>background when you did that?
Of course. But the point is that a great artist like Branford shouldn't be
subjected to joints where his music isn't given full attention.
Reedhater1
>From: walter...@unc.edu (Walter Davis)
>Date: 5/4/99 2:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <7gnpln$mlv$1...@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu>
>
>In article <372F5A1A...@nortelnetworks.com>,
> "Nordwell, Kurt (BNR:BNRTP:3I38)" <nord...@nortelnetworks.com>
>wrote:
>>Personally, I think the lack of respect is a combination of factors.
>>I think bad home training is part of it, the "me first" attitude of
>>the 90's, and the fact that in today's society a $45 ticket is a
>>license to do whatever enhances your concert experience - talking
>>especially.
>
>and I'll again state that loud talking and other forms of rude behavior
>have been a characteristic of club audiences forever. I don't think
>those KC gin joints were exactly quiet, demure settings. As such, I
>hypothesize it has nothing to do with 90's attitudes or the rise in
>ticket prices. Clubs are just noisy -- people go there to have a good
>time, drink, hang out with friends. There's nothing new in that.
>
>friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a little
>rowdy, have a good time? Wasn't there sometimes a band playing in the
>background when you did that?
>
>
>
>Walter Davis walter...@unc.edu
Walter has a point here, although I've certainly become furious in noisy clubs,
both as a player and a listener, sometimes a noisy club has brought energy to
the bandstand for me. I was lucky to spend some time with Mark Levine a year
or so ago, and he told me a really noisy club is his favorite place to play,
small, intimate, and he actually enjoys competing with the ice/coffee machines,
cramped bandstands, cranky often-abused waitrons, etc. Concert settings are
often optimum for a focus on music only, but, I know I've had a great time in
some exuberant club settings. Certainly, enough is enough at times, and I've
jumped off the stand to take a poke at a few folks over the years, and I'd
sure like to hear other's experiences with the same. Shoulda been a lawyer
when I had the chance.......!?
cheers all!
tst...@businessobjects.com
walter...@unc.edu (Walter Davis) wrote:
> [SNIP]> Jesus, weren't you people ever young? Didn't you used to go out with
> friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a little
> rowdy, have a good time?
Never! When I was a teenager and young adult, I was world-weary, bitter,
silent, wrinkled and bald. Even if I had had any friends, I would certainly
never have gone out with them. I eschewed alcohol and all other intoxicating
substances, treated women with exaggerated courtesy and reserve, remained calm
and quiet at all times, and was constantly bored.
Now that I'm older, however, there's nothing I like better than going to a
jazz club with a gang of friends and having a loud, lewd, rowdy good time.
And yeah, sometimes there's a band in the background. I think, anyway.
- Tom Storer
"When you're swinging, swing some more, but not during the solos." -
Thelonious Monk
Gary Milliken
>>Jesus, weren't you people ever young? Didn't you used to go out with
>>friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a little
>>background when you did that?
>
>subjected to joints where his music isn't given full attention.
I submit that if, by chance, Branford was angered or offended by what
happened at this *restaurant*, then either he or his manager should be
a bit more careful about what gigs they accept. I'm all for him doing
exactly what he chooses on the bandstand, but nobody can expect a quiet
and respectful audience at just *any* type of gig. Suppose he were to
take a gig at a monster truck pull -- what kind of reception would he
reasonably expect there? Yes, many bands do have to accept whatever gigs
they can when they're hustling (and of course, some never make it out
of the hustling stage), but is Branford really in that position?
GM
Erdal Paksoy
> >Of course. But the point is that a great artist like Branford shouldn't be
> >subjected to joints where his music isn't given full attention.
>
> I submit that if, by chance, Branford was angered or offended by what
> happened at this *restaurant*, then either he or his manager should be
> a bit more careful about what gigs they accept. I'm all for him doing
> exactly what he chooses on the bandstand, but nobody can expect a quiet
> and respectful audience at just *any* type of gig. Suppose he were to
> take a gig at a monster truck pull -- what kind of reception would he
> reasonably expect there? Yes, many bands do have to accept whatever gigs
> they can when they're hustling (and of course, some never make it out
> of the hustling stage), but is Branford really in that position?
>
> GM
As the originator of this thread, I feel I should clarify the situation.
The performance in Dallas was at a Jazz Club/Restaurant that normally features
local bands. They occasionally feature well-known artists from out of town.
On such occasions the cover charge is pretty high. For instance, I paid
$40 cover + $30 for dinner (mandatory) + $10 for drinks. Bar seating
was $25 + drinks, but you got a terrible view and you had to listen on the
monitors at the bar. All these prices are per set. Normally there is no cover
at this location. So, obviously, the clientele knew that this was a special
event and that they were there primarily to listen to Branford Marsalis.
The club had a sign outside that asked patrons to keep quiet during the show,
but no such reminder was present inside, at the tables, no announcement was made,
and the waiters did not say anything either.
The noise during the show was not usual intermittent background conversation.
It was continuous and loud. The people at the table behind me were literally
screaming throughout the show. This is NOT an exageration.
Like someone said earlier, I do not expect concert hall silence. Just the basic
courtesy of speaking only when necessary (ordering drinks, making a brief comment, etc).
As for Branford, he had no way of knowing what to expect before the gig.
I would be very surprised if he came back. Two years ago, he did a similar
gig at the Caravan of Dreams in Fort Worth. Again, a "dinner and cocktails"
club in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. The crowd there was excellent. That might
have encouraged him to consider this gig.
I have to disagree with posters who say that conversational noise is par
for the course at a club/restaurant appearance. It certainly should not
be for someone like Branford Marsalis. Here are just some of
the clubs where I have had no complaints: Birdland, Village Vanguard, Iridium,
Sweet Basil, Fez in New York; Yoshi's in Oakland; Catalina's in Los Angeles;
Joe Segal's Jazz Showcase in Chicago; the aforementioned Caravan of Dreams
in Fort Worth. Yes, some of these are the top jazz clubs in the world, but in
terms of pricing and promotion, this Branford Marsalis performance
was expected to be of a similar nature.
Nekosan73
On Vacation.
Johnny Noshoes
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jwg1954/
Johnnys_Place.html
http://www.hometown.aol.com/jwg1954/
MindLeaks/Mind_Leaks.html
Walter Davis
>>>friends, drink a little too much, flirt a little too much, get a
little
>>>rowdy, have a good time? Wasn't there sometimes a band playing in
the
>>>background when you did that?
>>
shouldn't be
>>subjected to joints where his music isn't given full attention.
>
when you were talking when a band was playing even though some of the
people around you probably thought they were a great band that shouldn't
be subjected to your rudeness. However, when someone does that to an
artist you consider 'great', that's a sign of incredible rudeness,
declining audience standards, and all the rest.
I don't remember the original story containing anything about Branford
saying anything about a rude audience so let's not simply assume that he
felt subjected to anything. I still think there's reasonable doubt that
his playing had anything to do with audience noise -- the description
offered by the critic and the fan are consistent with a guy playing
loud, aggressive, "free" music to (surprise) a straight jazz audience
that for the most part wasn't into it.
>I submit that if, by chance, Branford was angered or offended by what
>happened at this *restaurant*, then either he or his manager should be
>a bit more careful about what gigs they accept. I'm all for him doing
>exactly what he chooses on the bandstand, but nobody can expect a quiet
>and respectful audience at just *any* type of gig. Suppose he were to
>take a gig at a monster truck pull -- what kind of reception would he
>reasonably expect there? Yes, many bands do have to accept whatever
gigs
>they can when they're hustling (and of course, some never make it out
>of the hustling stage), but is Branford really in that position?
>
>GM
>
>
Erdal Paksoy
> Not to belabor the point, and this will be my last post: So, it was OK
> when you were talking when a band was playing even though some of the
> people around you probably thought they were a great band that shouldn't
> be subjected to your rudeness. However, when someone does that to an
> artist you consider 'great', that's a sign of incredible rudeness,
> declining audience standards, and all the rest.
>
> I don't remember the original story containing anything about Branford
> saying anything about a rude audience so let's not simply assume that he
> felt subjected to anything. I still think there's reasonable doubt that
> his playing had anything to do with audience noise -- the description
> offered by the critic and the fan are consistent with a guy playing
> loud, aggressive, "free" music to (surprise) a straight jazz audience
> that for the most part wasn't into it.
Branford did not say much to the audience at all. Only after the last
tune of the second set, he turned to his band and said something that,
from trying to read his lips, seemed something like: "we're outta here".
The music (mostly out of "Requiem") was certainly not what the audience expected.
I think the audience was 40% "straight jazz" and 60% "clueless".
They must have been familiar with Branford's Sting/Tonight Show/R&B efforts,
and not his jazz work.
Gary Milliken
Thanks to Erdal for his thorough clarification of the issue at hand.
Under the described circumstances, I'd say that yes, Branford would
be completely justified in taking offense at when went down there, and
probably would not be back.
However, one last point, inspired by another passing mention in
Erdal's post:
>Here are just some of the clubs where I have had no complaints:
>...
>Yoshi's in Oakland;
> [etc.]
I saw Pat Metheny at Yoshi's, and he said something like this to the
audience: "You know how there'll often be a scene in a movie, showing
a 'jazz club' where everyone is relaxed and comfortable, paying close
attention to the music, and the lights and the sound are perfect, and
it all looks great? Those of us who tour the country regularly know
better: there aren't any such places! Until now -- this place."
Pat is kind of an audience flatterer sometimes, so you could chalk this
up to public relations, but in truth, Yoshi's is the finest jazz venue
I've ever seen (never having been to any of those in NYC, but I have
read about them here, and they certainly don't sound *better* than
Yoshi's). It seems unreasonable to expect this kind of ideal setting
anywhere you might go, particularly between the coasts. If you find
one, great, but don't be too shocked if you don't.
GM
Marc Sabatella
>in truth, Yoshi's is the finest jazz venue
>I've ever seen (never having been to any of those in NYC, but I have
>read about them here, and they certainly don't sound *better* than
>Yoshi's). It seems unreasonable to expect this kind of ideal setting
>anywhere you might go, particularly between the coasts. If you find
>one, great, but don't be too shocked if you don't.
I haven't been to the new Yoshi's, but I'd rank the old one with any
club I've been to in NY or elsewhere also - good sound, comfortable
environment, patrons reasonably respectful of the music, not feeling
overly "gouged" on prices, etc. I can't think of anywhere I've been
that scores so well in all these categories.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my latest CD, "Second Course"
Available on Cadence Jazz Records
Also "A Jazz Improvisation Primer", Scores, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
William W. Schonbein
: Jesus, weren't you people ever young? Didn't you used to go out with
: rowdy, have a good time? Wasn't there sometimes a band playing in the
: background when you did that?
My first jazz experience: getting shushed by von freeman from the
bandstand at the green mill in chicago. it makes me cringe to remember
the experience. needless to say, i try to stay quiet these days.
whit
: -walt