Ray Brown vs. Niels Pederson
jatk...@descartes.uwaterloo.ca
ls (they trade off while he plays throughout). IMHO Niels kicks Ray's ass on every single track (now watch me get flamed...). Too bad that he doesn't play in North America. Has he played with any other big names? BTW, he is also brilliant on Nigerian Marketplace and A Tribute to my Friends (both O.P. albums).
James.
Victor Eijkhout
> Just interested in other people's opinions. I am a major Oscar
> Peterson fan, and have found that Niels-Henning Orsted-Pederson's
> bass playing with Oscar in the seventies in unreal.
Agree. I refrain from being too negative about Ray Brown, because
plenty people that I respect admire him, but I've never been
able to understand him. Not on record, not live. Niels Henning is
my big idol on acoustic (Jeff Berlin on electric) bass.
> His virtuosic
> ability complements Oscar's, and his sound is so clean -- I can hear
> every note instead of that dull booming sound that emanates from
> Ray. I thought that it was probably recording setup at first, but
> then check out Oscar Peterson and the Bassists at Montreux '77. On
> this album, Oscar plays with both Ray and Nie ls (they trade off
> while he plays throughout). IMHO Niels kicks Ray's ass on every
> single track (now watch me get flamed...).
For the ultimate comparison check out the last track. Henning's
bass has a problem so they trade *on Ray's bass*. Even there ...
> Has he played with any other big names?
Philip Catherine, Chet Baker, is who I have cds of that NHOP plays on.
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Thomas Ford Brown
In article <EIJKHOUT.94...@cupid.cs.utk.edu> eijk...@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) writes:
>
>> Has he played with any other big names?
>
>Philip Catherine, Chet Baker, is who I have cds of that NHOP plays on.
Several Pablo outings with Joe Pass. Try the duet albums for
lots of unadulterated NHOP. I also have a kenny Drew album
with Catherine and NHOP. I recall seeing an album Niels led
titled "Dancing On The Tables", but have no more info. Dexter
Gordon's "The Apartment" has Niels and Kenny both, and kicks.
It's on Steeplechase, has Tootie Heath on drums, and I think it's
still in print. Dexter and NHOP play a duet on Old Folks that's sweet.
Uwe Dillschneider
In article <CyJow...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
jatk...@descartes.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
> Has he played with any other big names?
I have an old record here (really on *VINYL*) by NHOP, Lee Konitz, John
Scofield, and Martial Solal (No Drummer!). It is called 'Four Keys' and was
released in 1979 on the german MPS-Label (distr. by Metronome Musik
GMBH,Hamburg). I do not know if there is any way to buy a copy over there, or
alone in Germany. The music on it sounds interesting at least, with elements of
Post-Bebop, Cool Jazz, and some Free-Playing. Worth checking out.
Uwe
---
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*Please send no Messages bigger than 16 kb*
Martin E. Witczak
In a previous article, eijk...@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) says:
>In article <CyJow...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> jatk...@descartes.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>
>> Just interested in other people's opinions. I am a major Oscar
>> Peterson fan, and have found that Niels-Henning Orsted-Pederson's
>> bass playing with Oscar in the seventies in unreal.
>
>> His virtuosic
>> ability complements Oscar's, and his sound is so clean -- I can hear
>> every note instead of that dull booming sound that emanates from
>> Ray. I thought that it was probably recording setup at first, but
>> then check out Oscar Peterson and the Bassists at Montreux '77. On
>> this album, Oscar plays with both Ray and Nie ls (they trade off
>> while he plays throughout). IMHO Niels kicks Ray's ass on every
>> single track (now watch me get flamed...).
>
>For the ultimate comparison check out the last track. Henning's
>bass has a problem so they trade *on Ray's bass*. Even there ...
>
I believe Pederson is a more effective musician all around... but
as far as I'm concerned... the definitive Oscar Peterson group is the trio
of Oscar, Ray Brown, and Ed Thigpen on drums. Especially on ballads...
a genre in which Ray Brown IS better than Pederson, in my opinion.
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sole purpose of a middle name is | Case Western Reserve University
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Stewart Freed
"Bassface". It's on Telarc.
BTW, I'm a fan of both Ray and Niels, but the Oscar Petersen-Niels OH
Pederson-Joe Pass trio were just different than the Oscar-Ray-Herbie /Ed
Thigpen trio of the fifties and early sixties.
Stewart
Philip F. Wight
was a kid, listening to the greats, he listened hard to Ray Brown.
Technically speaking, Pederson may be better than Ray TODAY, but Ray
is getting on in years. Do you realize he has been a giant in the jazz
field for a half century? The difference between
Brown and Pederson is that Ray Brown started the era of great bass
lines. Everyone that has come along in the last 50 or so years owes more
to Ray Brown than many of them realize, or admit.
It's kinda like trying to explain to younger people what's so great about
Sinatra. "He sounds like every other old pop singer" is the comment.
Wrong. Everyone else sounds like him. The phrasing that singers take
for granted was invented/perfedted by Sinatara.
The same can be said about Ray Brown. He started it, and at his peak, no
one could touch him.
The greatest Oscar Peterson albums, imho, are the trio albums with Barney
Kessel and Herbie Ellis.
Cheers,
Phil
-----------
Stewart Freed
(Stewar...@babylon.montreal.qc.ca) wrote:
: If you have any questions about Ray Brown's bass playing, check out his album
: Stewart
--
Philip F. Wight <pwi...@rahul.net>
Piotr Michalowski
simply different from Ray Brown. Having heard Ray a number of times live
in the last few years, I would not agree that he is getting on in years.
He has as much technique as NOP, but chooses to use it in a different
way. Ray played in the LA studieos for years, and can run fast licks if
he needs to, but his style is based on walking in a great swinging way,
an art in itself, on a specific tone--large and fat--and on an accent on
melody. His intonation is perfect and he can play arco like a classical
musician. Many bass players around can only use the bow for one final
note in a ballad, but when they try to solo they have intonation and
articulation problems. Not RB. His style is simply very different. He
never changed his way of playing after LaFaro and others made such a
difference in the way the modern (mainstream modern that is) bass was
conceived of in combo playing. I agree that one has to also respect the
fact that he was a pioneer, but I also think he is playing as well as
ever today. His trio concept is a bit restrictive, but he knows exactly
what he wants and he runs a tight ship!
Genie Baker
Philip F. Wight <pwi...@rahul.net> wrote:
> The difference between
>Brown and Pederson is that Ray Brown started the era of great bass
>lines. Everyone that has come along in the last 50 or so years owes more
>to Ray Brown than many of them realize, or admit.
>
>It's kinda like trying to explain to younger people what's so great about
>Sinatra. "He sounds like every other old pop singer" is the comment.
>Wrong. Everyone else sounds like him.
Kinda reminds me of a Shakespeare class I was in once. Some poor guy
raised his hand and explained to the prof that he thought Shakespeare was
okay, but he used way too many cliches.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Genie Baker gba...@umich.edu
ITMS JIM
<Pine.SOL.3.90a.94111...@robotron.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
Piotr Michalowski <pio...@umich.edu> writes:
"Many bass players around can only use the bow for one final
note in a ballad, but when they try to solo they have intonation and
articulation problems. Not RB."......
I am probably the biggest Oscar Peterson/Ray Brown/Ed Thigpen fan in the
world. I am very good friends with Ed Thigpen (he's currently at the
University of Illinois at Urbana teaching jazz for one year). I just met
Ray Brown at the LIONEL HAMPTON JAZZ FESTIVAL in Idaho (Feb. of this
year). I am the pianist that performs "the Musical Tribute to Oscar
Peterson". Back to Ray....one question for you to challenge your above
comment. Have you heard "SOMEWHERE" on the album "WEST SIDE STORY-O.P.
TRIO"? Give it a listen and please tell me if you still stand by your
statement. I am not attempting to degrade him, just simply confused about
that comment. In his defense, I did hear him do a beautiful bow solo at
the LIONEL HAMPTON festival. I was pretty impressed. Hope to hear your
reply. Please E-mail me at itm...@aol.com thanks, Jim
jatk...@zeno04.math.uwaterloo.ca
I've got Bassface, and it was Benny Green who blew me away, especially on the opening track. Didn't he win Downbeat pianist of the year or something (and he's like, only 26 or something...)? My personal favourite Ray Brown album has to be "Bam Bam Bam", particularly the tracks "F.S.R. (For Sonny Rollins)" and "Summertime" (check out Gene Harris on this latter...unreal).
James