Art Tatum playing CHOPIN, BACH?
Tatum fan
CHOPIN Waltz (op.64) (or a prelude?) as well as part of Bach's
Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue (apparently this is incomplete).
Has anyone out there heard or seen this CD?
I know for a fact that it exists, since the person who told me has
actually heard it, but I have no info on label, dates, other track
info, etc.
I have done extensive searching with "Tatum and Chopin" without luck
other than a 1995 post in which this same question is asked.
Any help will be highly appreciated. For any Tatum fan, this has to be
good...
Jack Woker
news:87a8ab2a.0211...@posting.google.com...
> I have heard that there is a CD out there in which Art Tatum plays a
> CHOPIN Waltz (op.64) (or a prelude?) as well as part of Bach's
> Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue (apparently this is incomplete).
I consulted Arnold Laubich's Art Tatum discography, and such a recording
does exist. It is a private recording made at a club in Toronto in November,
1949, and at the time of the publication of this book (1982) it had not been
released. Perhaps it has since seen the light of day somewhere.
jack
Descartes
I have what I thought were all of Tatum's commercial recordings,
but I don't have any Chopin or Bach. I do have, however, Tatum's
versions of Dvorak's Humoresque and Fauré's Après un
rêve--both of which are more jazz than classical. Horowitz was
sometimes in the audience at the mid-Manhattan clubs at
which Tatum played. And it is known that at least on one
occaision, he brought along Rachmanninov. Possibly Tatum
whipped up a Chopin waltz or prelude just for them. Tatum
also played for the Gershwin brothers at their Riverside
Drive apartments. George was reportedly ecstatic with
Tatum's treatment of Gershwin songs.
What was evident to me after listening to virtually everything
Tatum ever recorded and released is that he changed very little
over the years. He was already a superhuman virtuoso in his early
recordings. His harmonic language didn't develop much
because he was already so harmonically advanced when
he started out. His contemporaries eventually caught up
with him, and some even passed him by in terms of
harmonic innovation (for example, Ellington-- who started
out as a very traditional stride pianist but eventually
developed into a real composer of enormous
harmonic sophistication.) Despite the fact that he
didn't evolve much, no one ever mined more gold
out of one mine than Art Tatum. Tatum was that rare
phenomenon: a genius born whole.
D.
Jack Lefton
Monk playing Chopin. Even though this is on the official Monk family site,
it doesn't sound much like him. I'm interested in what some of you think.
Jack
Alan Young
Lefton <jle...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
Chopin didn't sound much like Monk, either. But that could be only
because he never tried.
--
alan
+++++++++
"I wish I could play like Tatum's right hand!"
-- Charlie Parker
Frisbie Einstein
> His harmonic language didn't develop much
> because he was already so harmonically advanced when
> he started out.
I heard Tatum for the first time this week. I was really impressed
with the chords he uses and wondered where he got those ideas which
have been the core of modern jazz ever since. So you say he pretty
much came up with it himself?
As far as the original poster goes, you CAN get a recording of McCoy
Tyner playing Chopin and Beethoven. It's called "Prelude And Sonata"
or something like that. I've never heard it.
Tatum fan
> does exist. It is a private recording made at a club in Toronto in November,
> 1949
Thanks for the info. I knew it was a private recording (read about it
in a Tatum Transcriptions book, but didn't know where and when it
happened) and was very surprised when this friend of mine said it was
available commercially. I had not heard anything about the Bach
recording, though...
Hopefully someone can shed some light...
Ray Hall
news:ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com...
| Descartes <cog...@ergo.com> wrote in message
news:<259auusun9764j3oq...@4ax.com>...
| > His harmonic language didn't develop much
| > because he was already so harmonically advanced when
| > he started out.
|
| I heard Tatum for the first time this week. I was really impressed
| with the chords he uses and wondered where he got those ideas which
| have been the core of modern jazz ever since. So you say he pretty
| much came up with it himself?
I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*. Harmonically
advanced? Well, he had to be. What I have heard though, is playing of such
virtuosity, [and Tatum WAS brilliant], that Rachmaninov himself, who heard
him with (maybe Toscanini?), was famously quoted as saying something
to the extent that, " ... if that man ever turns to classical music, we are
all finished". In fact, he was so good, that if ever he had recorded much of
the great virtuosic classical repertoire, Tatum would be in ALL our
collections, and not just jazz collections. Oscar Peterson [Canadian
pianist] is a sort of Tatum clone, who doesn't quite match the original.
But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy Tyner
would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
Tyner], whilst many forget that George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music. Fabulous, and I
couldn't begin to analyze it musically. Best left to those who are capable.
Tatum was indeed brilliant. However, what I seriously question is whether
he represented the core of modern jazz. I'd say Charlie Parker was the
genesis, if only because jazz, from that moment, HAD to turn in different
directions, merely in order to continue. There was only ONE Charlie Parker.
Gillespie valiantly kept going with the be-bop mentality, whilst others were
scattered to the winds by Bird.
Other pianists of note were Teddy Wilson, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Monk,
but none with the dazzling brilliance of Tatum. The great Erroll Garner may
have been one such pianist who came close.
| As far as the original poster goes, you CAN get a recording of McCoy
| Tyner playing Chopin and Beethoven. It's called "Prelude And Sonata"
| or something like that. I've never heard it.
I wouldn't want to hear it. Like putting an Eagle in an aviary.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
< NEW Doris Day TV series news >
VIVE LA KAREN, and "Never look at the brass - it only encourages them"
Ray, Taree, NSW
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Peter T. Daniels
>
> George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
> this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music.
Where can I find out about Braille music notation?
Isn't he still living? How did you get it? If he isn't still living,
didn't he contribute it to an archive?
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Alan Young
<hallr...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Oscar Peterson [Canadian
> pianist] is a sort of Tatum clone, who doesn't quite match the original.
Peterson was quoted (in an article recently posted on r.m.b.) as
denying being influenced by Tatum. IIRC, he saw himself as following in
the tradition of Teddy Wilson and Bud Powell.
Indeed, Peterson may share some of Tatum's RH virtuosity, but doesn't
use his LH in any way comparable.
> But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy Tyner
> would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
> Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
> Tyner], whilst many forget that George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style.
I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Shearing played
block chords--hands together in close harmony. Tyner played massive
modal harmonies, based on quartal (rather than triadic) spacing, with
either or both hands. Tatum followed the usual practice of playing
triad-based chords with the left hand; only the *choice* of chord was
different from his predecessors, as he could accomplish instantaneous
modulations in unexpected places. I can hardly think of three more
disparate pianists to compare.
> this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music. Fabulous, and I
> couldn't begin to analyze it musically. Best left to those who are capable.
Thou sayest.
> Gillespie valiantly kept going with the be-bop mentality, whilst others were
> scattered to the winds by Bird.
That's quite a whimsical assertion. No one was scattered to the winds
by Bird. And Dizzy actually didn't stay in the same vein--his most
noteworthy accomplishment was the creation of Cuban-Jazz fusion. And
none of this has anything to do with Tatum, whose playing before,
during and after Bird's career was essentially the same.
> I wouldn't want to hear it. Like putting an Eagle in an aviary.
Now *that's* a metaphor I can whole-heartedly agree with. 8-)
Porky Pig Jr
>> But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy
Tyner
> would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
> Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
> Tyner], whilst many forget that George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
> this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music. Fabulous, and I
> couldn't begin to analyze it musically. Best left to those who are capable.
>
>
well, since you've mentioned McCoy Tyner. Every time I've listened his
'Classical Quartet period' recordings (that is Coltrane et al), and a
few shortly after that (like 'Enlightenment'), I couldn't help but
thinking 'his piano style has some strong connections to a classical
20-century piano style, but what was that exactly?' Something similar
to Prokofiev (like his piano sonatas) Then I read that McCoy Tyner
studied with Hindemith (unfortunately I'm less familiar with
Hindemith's compositions for piano) I wonder if anyone has tried to
explore this connection. Interesting case of convergence between jazz
and modern classical music, and it comes up very naturally.
Another case when I no longer can tell whether it is a 'jazz' or
'classical' composition is some Bobby Hutcherson albums.
Joseph Scott
>
> I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*.
It's kind of like Tristano: How many people tried to play just like
Tatum is a different question from how much overall influence did
Tatum have on modern jazz in general, through people who admired him,
such as Charlie Parker (tons).
Oscar Peterson [Canadian
> pianist] is a sort of Tatum clone, who doesn't quite match the original.
Not even close imo.
> Tatum was indeed brilliant. However, what I seriously question is whether
> he represented the core of modern jazz. I'd say Charlie Parker was the
> genesis, if only because jazz, from that moment, HAD to turn in different
> directions, merely in order to continue. There was only ONE Charlie Parker.
> Gillespie valiantly kept going with the be-bop mentality, whilst others were
> scattered to the winds by Bird.
I think Tatum was about as far from the "core" of modern jazz as Hines
or Roy Eldridge: the modernists (who were almost all only about
Dizzy's age) respected these guys, but they were not thought of as
part of the movement. Imo if there was a "core" of modern jazz early
on it was Gillespie. Bird was an even greater improviser than Dizzy,
but during the '40s it was Dizzy's combos and big bands that were (to
the extent that you can any one guy's bands were) defining what bebop
was. There's a reason bop fans generally tried to dress like Dizzy and
not like Bird back around the late '40s and all that, Dizzy was
recognized (rightly) as the leader of the bop movement. And during
roughly '42-'45 Bird was picking up "bebop"-associated harmonic
approaches and rhythms from Dizzy, and combining them with the feel
for the blues that Bird had and Dizzy didn't particularly have. So the
core was Diz imo whereas the greatest creator within the style that
Dizzy largely developed was Bird.
Best wishes,
Joseph Scott
Frisbie Einstein
> news:ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com...
>
> I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*. Harmonically
> advanced? Well, he had to be.
If he didn't invent it, who did?
> What I have heard though, is playing of such
> virtuosity, [and Tatum WAS brilliant], that Rachmaninov himself, who heard
> him with (maybe Toscanini?), was famously quoted as saying something
> to the extent that, " ... if that man ever turns to classical music, we are
> all finished". In fact, he was so good, that if ever he had recorded much of
> the great virtuosic classical repertoire, Tatum would be in ALL our
> collections, and not just jazz collections. Oscar Peterson [Canadian
> pianist] is a sort of Tatum clone, who doesn't quite match the original.
>
I've been listening to McCoy's "Enlightenment" and would say nobody
can touch him for virtuosity. Horowitz and Tatum don't come close.
> But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy Tyner
> would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
> Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
> Tyner],
You can say that again. I wonder where he got his ideas? Surely most
are his own, but there is a sequence of block chords in the Samuel
Barber piano concerto (1940) that sounds McCoy to a T.
McCoy is a real giant. Not only that, he was the world's best
cocktail pianist.
> whilst many forget that George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
> this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music. Fabulous, and I
> couldn't begin to analyze it musically. Best left to those who are capable.
You've got my interest. Shearing goes on the must listen list.
>
> Tatum was indeed brilliant. However, what I seriously question is whether
> he represented the core of modern jazz. I'd say Charlie Parker was the
> genesis, if only because jazz, from that moment, HAD to turn in different
> directions, merely in order to continue.
> There was only ONE Charlie Parker.
Well, Charlie says "I wanted to play like Tatum's right hand" or
something like that.
> Gillespie valiantly kept going with the be-bop mentality, whilst others were
> scattered to the winds by Bird.
?
>
> Other pianists of note were Teddy Wilson, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Monk,
> but none with the dazzling brilliance of Tatum. The great Erroll Garner may
> have been one such pianist who came close.
>
>
> | As far as the original poster goes, you CAN get a recording of McCoy
> | Tyner playing Chopin and Beethoven. It's called "Prelude And Sonata"
> | or something like that. I've never heard it.
>
> I wouldn't want to hear it. Like putting an Eagle in an aviary.
>
Yeah. Does seem kind of pointless.
Alan Young
Einstein <patmp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy Tyner
> > would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
> > Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
> > Tyner],
>
> You can say that again. I wonder where he got his ideas? Surely most
> are his own, but there is a sequence of block chords in the Samuel
> Barber piano concerto (1940) that sounds McCoy to a T.
Someone else posted the info that McCoy studied with Hindemith (which
surprises me, since Hindemith taught at U.C.Berkeley, IIRC, and McCoy
was from Philadelphia). Hindemith, from what I've heard, taught
compsoition strictly according his own harmonic ideas, which consisted
mostly of chords and figures built on fourths (rather than the
common-practice triads).
As it happens, quartal chords work perfectly to support
modal/pentatonic melodies, which is just what Coltrane was
experiemtning with when he connected with McCoy. The rest is history...
--
alan
+++++++++
"I wish I could play like Tatum's right hand!"
-- Charlie Parker
Adam Bravo
"Frisbie Einstein" <patmp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com...
> "Ray Hall" <hallr...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:<MdnF9.85683$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>...
> > "Frisbie Einstein" <patmp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com...
>
> >
> > I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*.
Harmonically
> > advanced? Well, he had to be.
>
> If he didn't invent it, who did?
I think a lot of is derived from Romantic-era composers. Obviously modern
jazz harmony is quite a bit different from this sort of harmony, but there
are some great similarities.
Mike T
> but none with the dazzling brilliance of Tatum. The great Erroll Garner may
> have been one such pianist who came close.
You can`t compare all pianists with the same criteria,
each has their own contribution to make. Erroll Garner
never came anywhere near,a very limited piano player in
my opinion, you only need one record of his in your
collection. Oh, and you`ve forgotten Ellington, Hines,
Stacy, J.P.Johnson, Dodo Marmarosa, Horace Silver,
Bud Powell and John Lewis, all worthy contenders.
Mike.
>
>
>
>
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com>, Frisbie
> Einstein <patmp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > But for chords, as chords per se and hence sound itself, then McCoy Tyner
> > > would have to be one of those pianists, that coloured uniquely the John
> > > Coltrane trio, [to hear McCoy Tyner is to immediately recognise McCoy
> > > Tyner],
> >
> > You can say that again. I wonder where he got his ideas? Surely most
> > are his own, but there is a sequence of block chords in the Samuel
> > Barber piano concerto (1940) that sounds McCoy to a T.
>
> Someone else posted the info that McCoy studied with Hindemith (which
> surprises me, since Hindemith taught at U.C.Berkeley, IIRC, and McCoy
Hindemith was at Yale.
> was from Philadelphia). Hindemith, from what I've heard, taught
> compsoition strictly according his own harmonic ideas, which consisted
> mostly of chords and figures built on fourths (rather than the
> common-practice triads).
>
> As it happens, quartal chords work perfectly to support
> modal/pentatonic melodies, which is just what Coltrane was
> experiemtning with when he connected with McCoy. The rest is history...
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
J Bongo Zed
> Hi Ray,
>
> >
> > I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*.
>
> It's kind of like Tristano: How many people tried to play just like
> Tatum is a different question from how much overall influence did
> Tatum have on modern jazz in general, through people who admired him,
> such as Charlie Parker (tons).
Not really. Nobody with an ear for jazz would put Tatum in the same
league as Tristano.
Ray Hall
news:3DE60E...@worldnet.att.net...
| Ray Hall wrote:
| >
| > George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
| > Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
| > this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music.
|
| Where can I find out about Braille music notation?
Ask Stevie Wonder <g> Actually Shearing is a very accomplished bridge
player, and was born congenitally blind.
| Isn't he still living? How did you get it? If he isn't still living,
| didn't he contribute it to an archive?
I believe he may still be alive, and he was born in August 1919. Anyway, I
borrowed the De Luxe Edition "George Shearing" Interpretations for Piano (c)
Columbia Pictures Publication 1986, along with another publication where the
copyrights are owned by various holders, Levy, Leo Feist, Robbins, Miller,
and many others depending upon ownership, many assigned to the CBS Catalogue
Partnership. The first number of the latter is an arrangement of Lullaby of
Birdland (by George Shearing himself). Did I say copy? No, of course not.
One isn't allowed to is one? I have a photographic memory (:-/)
Ray Hall
news:a2d52481.02112...@posting.google.com...
| Hi Ray,
| I think Tatum was about as far from the "core" of modern jazz as Hines
| or Roy Eldridge: the modernists (who were almost all only about
| Dizzy's age) respected these guys, but they were not thought of as
| part of the movement. Imo if there was a "core" of modern jazz early
| on it was Gillespie. Bird was an even greater improviser than Dizzy,
| but during the '40s it was Dizzy's combos and big bands that were (to
| the extent that you can any one guy's bands were) defining what bebop
| was. There's a reason bop fans generally tried to dress like Dizzy and
| not like Bird back around the late '40s and all that, Dizzy was
| recognized (rightly) as the leader of the bop movement. And during
| roughly '42-'45 Bird was picking up "bebop"-associated harmonic
| approaches and rhythms from Dizzy, and combining them with the feel
| for the blues that Bird had and Dizzy didn't particularly have. So the
| core was Diz imo whereas the greatest creator within the style that
| Dizzy largely developed was Bird.
I agree with a lot in what you say above, and good food for thought. But
remember that (from the photos I have seen), Bird never was a snappy dresser
a la mode. Possessing an instrument was hard enough. Just having *something*
to wear (usually some suit or other) was one obstacle he always managed to
overcome. So I believe <g>
I've got "Closer to The Source" Atlantic 81646-4 by Gillespie, and that
clearly demonstrates the later Cuban/South American influences he indulged
in.
Joseph Scott
> collection....
What do you think of the late Dec. '44 Erroll Garner All Stars session
with Shavers? The Feb. 7, '45 session as a member of Auld's band?
Those are both must-haves imo.
Joseph Scott
Abjorn
limits he plays in a way that you want to hear him very often IMO. Jazz is
not primarily a matter of technique. It's the way you are using your
technique. "'T Ain't What you Do, It's the Way That You Do It" is a song
title that is very appropriate!
Abjorn
"Mike T" <mjtr...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:39d98992.0211...@posting.google.com...
Simon Weil
The interesting thing was that, indeed, it didn't sound like Monk. My feeling
was this was a guy who could play straight when he wanted to - and perfectly
competently - that was the evidence of the recording. It's kind of like a test
of his basic musicality.
Therefore all the "wrong" notes - and different forms of "askewness" which
characterize his music must be deliberate, conscious, expressive uses of form.
Because, when he wanted to, he could play quite straight. Of course, I believed
that already, but it's nice to have the evidence.
But also I thought it was rather powerful with a kind of visceral drive I don't
associate with his playing - almost like a barrelhouse thing. Or maybe like
Coleman Hawkins, in a certain sort of way.
Simon Weil
Peter T. Daniels
>
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3DE60E...@worldnet.att.net...
> | Ray Hall wrote:
> | >
> | > George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> | > Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
> | > this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music.
> |
> | Where can I find out about Braille music notation?
>
> Ask Stevie Wonder <g> Actually Shearing is a very accomplished bridge
> player, and was born congenitally blind.
Um, that's redundant ...
And that's why I consider it likely that he reads and writes music in
Braille.
> | Isn't he still living? How did you get it? If he isn't still living,
> | didn't he contribute it to an archive?
>
> I believe he may still be alive, and he was born in August 1919. Anyway, I
> borrowed the De Luxe Edition "George Shearing" Interpretations for Piano (c)
> Columbia Pictures Publication 1986, along with another publication where the
> copyrights are owned by various holders, Levy, Leo Feist, Robbins, Miller,
> and many others depending upon ownership, many assigned to the CBS Catalogue
> Partnership. The first number of the latter is an arrangement of Lullaby of
> Birdland (by George Shearing himself). Did I say copy? No, of course not.
> One isn't allowed to is one? I have a photographic memory (:-/)
Oh! You don't mean you possess his sheet music; you mean you have his
editions or interpretations of this or that.
That is not interesting.
Mark Eisenman
One of the bass players (Neil Swainson) I work with here in Toronto tours with
him all the time.
Ray Hall wrote:
--
Mark Eisenman
E mail- eise...@yorku.ca
WEB- jazzpiano.ca
276 Willow Ave.
Toronto, ON
M4E 3K7
Canada
Edward
Has anyone heard Keith Jarrett playing Bach? I have it on good
authority that he has recorded the WTK1 and done a good job, but less
good on the Goldberg Variations.
Edward
Epistrophy
<< Where can I find out about Braille music notation? >>
http://www.brl.org/music/ provides the most recent code outlines for music
braille. It's horribly complicated to deal with, and I greatly respect anyone
who can actually read the @#$% stuff.
- Todd
Mike T
Sorry, I dived in without enough consideration for his
early work. I don`t know of the dates you mention but I
do have him on a Gene Norman concert at Pasadena 1947,
and of course the tracks with Parker. Following his
popular success with the "Concert by the sea" album he
settled into a stream of recordings which, for me, were
boring and predictable.
Mike.
Mike T
> You may call Erroll Garner a technically limited person. But within these
> limits he plays in a way that you want to hear him very often IMO. Jazz is
> not primarily a matter of technique. It's the way you are using your
> technique. "'T Ain't What you Do, It's the Way That You Do It" is a song
> title that is very appropriate!
>
> Abjorn
It`s not the lack of technical ability, it`s the sameness of
approach that makes listening, for me, boring, I`ll except
some of his early work
Mike.
Victor Eijkhout
> > George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
> > Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction about
> > this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music.
>
> Where can I find out about Braille music notation?
If you're trying to make a joke, you're wrong. If you're serious,
contact your local instute for the blind or whatever it's called.
Braille music notation exists, it's clever in parts, and laborious in
general.
V.
Leo Herranen
> http://www.brl.org/music/ provides the most recent code outlines for
> music braille. It's horribly complicated to deal with, and I greatly
> respect anyone who can actually read the @#$% stuff.
I have no experience with Braille or anything, but I used to think that about
anyone who knew how to read standard notation...
--
Leo Herranen|<her...@mbnet.fi>| 146114978 |
<http://juhani.exdecfinland.org/~herranen/>|
Abjorn
lot of surprises in Erroll's playing.
Abjorn
"Mike T" <mjtr...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:39d98992.02112...@posting.google.com...
Marcus A. Woelfle
he plays an intro which standard will follow.
Sameness of approach? That applies to a lot of great musicians, for example
Tatum.
At least Garner's was an approach totally different from everybody else's.
You'll recognize hom after two bars. With his left hand playing like a
rhythm guitar 4 to the bar and his right hand playing funny things he was
different form every pianist who preceded him. His time feeling was unique.
And I believe if he ever played a not that didn't swing it must have been
when no audience was present. And he sure made everybody feel happy.
I think the problem with Garner for some people is that in his music was
nothing intellectual, cerebral in his playing. It was all fun, joy de vivre,
optimistic. Therefore it is thought that is music lacked of depth. He is
mainly seen as an entertainer, or worse, only a as cocktail pianist. But if
you're feel low down he lifts your soul in a way only music with depth can.
Best,
Marcus
Peter T. Daniels
Wrong about what? It's a simple question.
I know that. I have published a scholarly article on Braille, but I have
never found a source for Braille music notation.
Joseph Scott
Marmarosa, you'll probably like this session too -- it's before Garner
kind of changed styles.
Joseph Scott
Ray Hall
| Ray Hall wrote:
| >
| > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
| > news:3DE60E...@worldnet.att.net...
| > | Ray Hall wrote:
| > | >
| > | > George Shearing (also accompanist to Mel
| > | > Tormé) developed his own "blocked chord" style. I know a fraction
about
| > | > this, because I possess most of Shearing's sheet music.
| > |
| > | Where can I find out about Braille music notation?
| >
| > Ask Stevie Wonder <g> Actually Shearing is a very accomplished bridge
| > player, and was born congenitally blind.
|
| Um, that's redundant ...
So are 90% of posts here, including yours. So what is your point?
| And that's why I consider it likely that he reads and writes music in
| Braille.
I doubt it.
| > | Isn't he still living? How did you get it? If he isn't still living,
| > | didn't he contribute it to an archive?
| >
| > I believe he may still be alive, and he was born in August 1919. Anyway,
I
| > borrowed the De Luxe Edition "George Shearing" Interpretations for Piano
(c)
| > Columbia Pictures Publication 1986, along with another publication where
the
| > copyrights are owned by various holders, Levy, Leo Feist, Robbins,
Miller,
| > and many others depending upon ownership, many assigned to the CBS
Catalogue
| > Partnership. The first number of the latter is an arrangement of Lullaby
of
| > Birdland (by George Shearing himself). Did I say copy? No, of course
not.
| > One isn't allowed to is one? I have a photographic memory (:-/)
|
| Oh! You don't mean you possess his sheet music; you mean you have his
| editions or interpretations of this or that.
|
| That is not interesting.
I didn't ask you to be interested, and nor am I interested in what you are
interested in. Your post is utterly redundant, fwiw. Now get lost, and go
play with Tholen.
Ray Hall
news:3DE78185...@yorku.ca...
| Of course, he's still alive and working.
| One of the bass players (Neil Swainson) I work with here in Toronto tours
with
| him all the time.
Great to know he is still with us, and playing. Thanks for the info.
Ray Hall
| | Um, that's redundant ...
|
| So are 90% of posts here, including yours. So what is your point?
Sincere apologies to the jazz <rec.music.bluenote> group. My remarks were
intended for Daniels and rec.music.classical.
Victor Eijkhout
> I have published a scholarly article on Braille, but I have
> never found a source for Braille music notation.
Ok. Then I misread you.
It's been a long time since I did anything with Braille music, and my
source was a book in Dutch of which I've forgotten the author anyway.
But I believe I also had a booklet from a local institute for the blind,
so if you really want to know, try that route.
V.
Victor Eijkhout
> but I have
> never found a source for Braille music notation.
Ever heard of Google? (I know, it's taken me two posts to do the obvious
thing, so who am I and all that.)
among other links.
V.
Dennis J. Kosterman
>Has anyone heard Keith Jarrett playing Bach? I have it on good
>authority that he has recorded the WTK1 and done a good job, but less
>good on the Goldberg Variations.
Jarrett has actually done quite a few classical albums -- several
other Bach albums besides the ones you mention, plus Handel, Mozart,
Shostakovich, ... They all sound good to me, but classical critics in
general don't seem to think that he measures up to the best classical
pianists. I have other recordings (by classical pianists) of most of
the things Jarrett has done, and I don't find the differences glaring.
I can enjoy either one.
Dennis J. Kosterman
den...@tds.net
Descartes
None are so blind as those who will not see.
D.
Marcus A. Woelfle
Erroll played. I studied classical piano, and one timt I ran into him. I met
Erroll and he played for me. It's the beginning of my influence in jazz ...
what started me out." They both were from Pittsburgh and used to play
together whne still school boys.
For comparison I also recommend listening to Erroll Garners 1944 solo
recordings "In The Beginning" (Green Line Records CDJJ-615) and to
Marmarosas "Tone Poems" from 1946.
Best,
Marcus
"Joseph Scott" <j_ns...@msn.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:a2d52481.02112...@posting.google.com...
Marcus A. Woelfle
Parker quoted it in his 3rd take of "Bird of Paradise" (October 28, 1947)
Marcus
"Simon Weil" <simo...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:20021129074608...@mb-fn.aol.com...
Ray Hall
news:3de83873...@news.tds.net...
I've heard some of Jarrett's Shostakovich, Bach and Handel, and it always
seems just a bit too pristine and precise for me, almost as though he has to
prove himself to be "the very model of a classical musician". The Handel I
thought suited him best. If he had let himself go just a bit more, then he
would have been very good indeed. As it stands, his playing is still of a
very fine order though.
Leo Scanlon
No flaming, no trolling. So rare in this NG nowdays.
Leo
Peter T. Daniels
Now if you'd only keep it in your own newsgroup ...
Mike T
Thanks for the info. I`ll look into it.
Mike.
Joseph Scott
Sorry, didn't notice the Tatum thread was cross-posted. Anyway, Marcus
brought this thread on-topic for you all too, since Marmarosa's "tone
paintings" have something to do with classical...
Joseph Scott
Wdflannery
>> | Tyner playing Chopin and Beethoven. It's called "Prelude And Sonata"
>> | or something like that. I've never heard it.
>>
>> I wouldn't want to hear it. Like putting an Eagle in an aviary.
Wow. Far from it. Chopin was a monster. The guy practically invented modern
piano playing - there is no question he was a monster player - and he, in my
opinion, was the first great jazz player. What's the argument(?) - a large
part of it is his "Scherzo in B minor" - and I've uploaded the first 3rd at
http://members.aol.com/lyudok/scherzo.mp3
To me, it sounds like Trane may have copped some of his licks from this piece,
if not the exact notes, at least the essential musical thrust ..
There are also Chopin pieces that sound like the Bill Evan's school of jazz
(eg. Mazurka in A Minor). Not to mention Tin Pan Alley tunes (the chord
sequence to "Some Enchanted Evening"). Also try his "Fantasie Impromptu".
Also, there is a misconception about classical technique. All classical
players can play fast - they all start as prodigies after all - but the great
players go way beyond playing fast - that's not where there technique lies. If
you watch the video "Horowitz - the Last Romantic" - he goes to the Steinway
dealer in NY to select a piano - they've preselected three for him to try and
put them in the basement - and as Horowitz is hammering one of them the
Steinway rep says - "no one has the dynamics of Horowitz" - you can hear what
he's talking about in one minute - it isn't even subtle! - he could play the
loudest and the softest - it's all in his amazing touch ...
Listen to the clip and be amazed !
Steve Emerson
tortill...@hotmail.com (Tatum fan) wrote:
> I have heard that there is a CD out there in which Art Tatum plays a
> CHOPIN Waltz (op.64) (or a prelude?)
FWIW Opus 64 consists of three waltzes, of which one is the familiar Minute
Waltz (D-flat). Musicians of all sorts play the Minute Waltz and it is also
frequently quoted. James Booker used it at every opportunity. I have no doubt
Tatum was quite familiar with it.
Of course it's entirely possible that what Tatum recorded was one of the other
two. Op 64/2 is the C sharp minor waltz that Rachmaninoff played so
brilliantly. 64/3 is in A flat.
SE.
Marcus A. Woelfle
that he samed to have an affinity to Chopin, too. There is a piece called
"Majorca" on his Choice-Album "Sir Elf plus 1" based on Etude #6 by Chopin.
He is also sideman on Stéphane Grappellis Black Lion - album "Parisian
Thoroughfare" which has an "Inprovisation on Prelude in e minor". I wonder
if there was another Hanna-rendition of this prelude without Grappelli but
my memory fails.
Marcus
"Steve Emerson" <eme...@nospamsonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:emersn-ABF3E6....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Andy Lord
> "Ray Hall" <hallr...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<MdnF9.85683$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>...
> > "Frisbie Einstein" <patmp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ac4e6c8f.02112...@posting.google.com...
>
> >
> > I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*. Harmonically
> > advanced? Well, he had to be.
>
> If he didn't invent it, who did?
art garfunkel was in the room
Ben Sharvy
> I doubt, myself, whether Tatum was a true jazz *originator*.
Nobody played anything like him, before him. Many have been influenced
by him. Without Art Tatum, you have no Bud Powell as we know it.
Without Bud Powell, you don't have Paul Bley as we know it. Without
Paul Bley, you don't have modern jazz piano, as we know it. What more
do you want?
Sterling Motors
then we have yet to invent the wheel. Just listen to his chords - there is
jazz theory up through and ahead of his time. If you can't hear it, look at
a transcription. He raised the bar on technique and speed and had the most
solid tone ever heard as well.
Sterling
"Ben Sharvy" <bsh...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:d196ca8d.02120...@posting.google.com...
Frisbie Einstein
> >
> >
> > | Tyner playing Chopin and Beethoven. It's called "Prelude And Sonata"
> > | or something like that. I've never heard it.
> >
> > I wouldn't want to hear it. Like putting an Eagle in an aviary.
> >
>
Well, I went to Amazon and listened to a sample, it was a knockout. A
100% jazz version of the Chopin, and Joshua Redman is the second
coming of John Coltrane. I MUST HAVE THIS DISC!
Orlando Fiol
> http://www.brl.org/music/ provides the most recent code outlines for music
> braille. It's horribly complicated to deal with, and I greatly respect anyone
> who can actually read the @#$% stuff.
I couldn't have studied Western classical music for twelve years without
it, although I had to memorize pieces if I expected to hear both hands.
(grin)
Orlando
blind and proud of the logic in Braille music notation