Robert Moog & Jazz Musicians Who Uses His Instruments
VERNITA WOODARD
wondering if anying jazz keyboardist ever use his instruments in their
music.
nick...@aol.com
Does "jazz keyboardist" include the more commercial genres, e.g.,
fusion? If so, there have been plenty. The Minimoog, specifically, was
quite popular in its day. Notable users included Chick Corea, Jan
Hammer, and David Sancious.
Tom K
<nick...@aol.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1124753927.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
George Duke, Herbie Hancock and Joe Zawinul
Jack Lefton
PAUL BLEY: Thoughts on electronic music and synthesizers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When improvisers left their previously acoustic domain and took up
electricity, the intention in many cases was to make a literal translation
of the acoustic music to electric. The inclusion of this new wealth of
timbres produced an unexpected richness. In my case, the change from
piano to electric keyboards, including the first primitive synths was to
lead to results that I could not have fully predicted. One has only to
examine the evolution of the sound of the electric guitar to realize that
the sound an instrument makes may forever change the future direction of the
music to be made on that instrument. In ensemble playing the thrill of
loosing oneself in an electric universe where the players may not be able to
tell who is doing what presented opportunities for real group integration.
In 1969, I did an interview for Downbeat Magazine. At the end of the
interview, the writer casually asked what I thought about the new keyboard
synthesizers. At this time, the keyboard had just been added to the
synthesizer, so it was now perceived as being in my domain.
I said, "What's a keyboard synthesizer?"
He told me. Now I was interviewing him.
My next question was, "How do I get my hands on one?"
Bob Moog had just opened a factory in Trumansburg, New York, in the Finger
Lakes district. I found out that there were only a few production models of
the Moog synthesizer in existence, and that to get into that game you needed
about twelve grand. But I decided I had to get this instrument.
When I phoned Trumansburg it sounded even more difficult. In fact, there was
only one production model in the factory, and several pianists and their
wives and children had emigrated to Trumansburg, just because Bob would let
them play it at three o'clock on Thursdays.
I sat down and wrote a script about a luncheon date between Paul Bley and
Robert Moog. Although I'd never met the man, at the beginning of this
one-act play I said "Hello Bob" and he said "Hello Paul", and at the end I
drove off with a Moog synthesizer.
I called him up and told him I would like to come to Trumansburg to see him.
He'd heard of me, at least enough to say come on up.
I understood that the synthesizer was a miniaturization of an electronic
music studio, where composers laboriously spliced together hundreds of
pieces of recording tape to create an electronically conceived musical
composition. I pointed out to Bob that in reducing this roomful of equipment
down to the size of a coffee table and adding a keyboard, he had not made
any allowances for real-time performance. And I put it to Bob that his
company was doomed to failure unless he had the input of a performing
musician.
Bob went for it, but said that since there was only one production model in
existence, he would have to ship it to me later.
I said, "That's not necessary, Bob. I have my rented station wagon just
outside the door and if you grab a corner of the synthesizer we can carry it
outside right now."
When we got back to New York there were certain problems to be solved, since
there was no manual. Problem number one: how do you turn it on? Number
two: How do you get it to make a sound? Number three: How do you get an
attack and decay? Number four: How do you filter the sound?
This instrument required patching phono plugs between two places to make a
connection. There were a million choices. For example, I learned that
there were three kinds of vibrato: pitch vibrato as in a violin tremolo;
volume vibrato, as if turning the volume knob up and down quickly; and
timbre vibrato, as in turning the filtering knob up and down quickly. Since
my hands were fully occupied with the keyboard and the patching, I had the
luxury of designing twelve foot pedals for controlling these parameters.
In fact, only the instrument knew what it could do. It just sat there,
pregnant with information. It took me two years to get to the point where we
could give a performance on it. Finally I found sound one. That was a
nightmare, because once I'd found sound one, I had to go back and start
again to find sound two. I literally spent two years or so drawing charts of
the face of the instrument and the patch cording that was required for each
desired sound and treatment. I had pretty much decided early on that I
wanted the keyboard synthesizer to do things that the piano couldn't do.
With the synthesizer band I made some records. Between April 1969 and
October 1971 I made ten synthesizer records, of which Annette Peacock did
voice synthesis on eight, one of which she is the leader on.
We played at the Jazz Workshop in Boston for a week, Barry Altschul and
myself and a bassist, with this monophonic instrument with no memory. For a
week! It was very hot stuff. I made tapes of it, but there was some very raw
synthesizer playing which we decided was too far out to be issued. As our
technology grew I found myself with several keyboards at my disposal.
Photographs from that period show me stacking them. At that time there was
no precedent for putting one keyboard on top of another--what we now call
the keyboard sandwich. I had to think of that by myself.
There was no difference between the electric music and any of the free jazz
we played acoustically. We didn't bother using the instrument to change the
music, we were just hoping to be able to do some things that you couldn't do
on acoustic instruments.
Annette assembled an instrument from additional Moog synthesizer modules
that she could trigger using her voice, choosing the sounds she liked. She
was plugging voice microphones into jacks that were looking for oscillator
signals. That took even more work and the whole system became even less
stable, because the instrument had zero memory. But she got some wonderful
things.
I remember fondly a concert at the Village Vanguard. I had the synthesizer
on the stage, a trio waiting to perform, an audience waiting for us to
begin, and I was on the floor looking up under the synthesizer with a pocket
flashlight and a screwdriver and the house mike, asking the audience to
please bear with us. Max Gordon told me three things: get out, stay out and
don't come back. I haven't played the Vanguard since.
After doing the first live performance ever done with audio synthesizer and
voice treatment at Philharmonic Hall in Friday on December 26th.1969 at
8:30PM, Annette and I received an offer to take the show to Europe. I
should have learned my lesson while I was lying on the stage of the
Vanguard, but I was so excited about this instrument, that I accepted the
offer and went on the road.
The tour was with a quartet. I decided to buy a Volkswagen bus to get to the
airport, because if we left it at the airport, we'd have a way to get back.
So I bought a Volkswagen bus. It broke down, so we abandoned it on the Long
Island Thruway and somehow made our way to the airport. We caught a plane to
Luxembourg where we bought <MI>another<D> Volkswagen bus which also broke
down, so we abandoned it on the German autobahn. We finally caught a plane
to Milan, but when we'd filled out the insurance form in New York we'd
declared the true value of the equipment, so the customs inspector wanted
the equivalent of about fifty thousand dollars cash as a deposit.
However--and this could only happen in Italy--after I autographed one of my
LPs for him, he waved us through.
We arrived in Milan, exhausted and half-crazed for the first date, and
explained all our trials to the promoter. He looked at us and said, "You
know, as far as I'm concerned, you could have just come and played the
piano."
Once I finished that tour, including a performance at the Montreux Jazz
Festival, that was it for electric instruments. For awhile.
Electricity showed that one could play a lot slower than had been previously
played, and with sequencers and sample-and-hold modules, one could play a
lot faster than anyone had ever played on the piano. So electric threw the
gauntlet down. Can you play as fast as a synthesizer? Can you play as slow
as the electric instruments? And for the next two decades, I spent time
playing very slow and very fast.
Copyright Paul Bley 1999
The Arranger
I think synthesized music was a dead end. When I think of the
synthesizer, I think of the unintentionally comic Keith Emerson solo at
the end of the 1960s-1970s pop hit "Lucky Man."
Boo-WEEE-boo-WEEE-boo-WEEE!
The Arranger
Greg
"Tom K" <tomkri...@webspeed.dk> wrote in message
news:430a6a61$0$75689$edfa...@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>
>>
>
> George Duke, Herbie Hancock and Joe Zawinul
later the Oberheims, Prophets and Korgs.
Greg
Tom K
"Greg" <bl...@blah.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:tfGOe.78799$Ph4.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
to check it right now. Will get back to it later
he...@eskimau.com
Arranger <scrc...@aol.com> wrote:
I think prog-rock like Emerson Lake & Palmer may have been a dead end
(though I'm not going to get into an extended argument with any prog
fans who may be reading this) and the overall use of electronic
keyboards in jazz as such has been relatively limited, but it contiues
today and almost all of the examples cited by other posters in this
thread include keyboard players who are a l,ot hipper than Keith
Emerson.
he...@eskimau.com
I think prog-rock like Emerson Lake & Palmer may have been a dead end
j_ns...@msn.com
> thread include keyboard players who are a l,ot hipper than Keith
> Emerson.
Emerson was one of the inventors of jazz/rock fusion -- for instance,
"Blue Rondo A La Turk" and "Sombrero Sam" with The Nice in '67. And
Herbie and lots of other people did lots of fusion too, after that. So
I figure Emerson's ideas weren't a dead end, and he's hip.
Best wishes,
Joseph Scott
he...@eskimau.com
<j_ns...@msn.com> wrote:
If playing duff versions of tunes is all it takes, sure, Emerson
deserves status as a living legend of hipdom.
Greg
<j_ns...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1124922028.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
man" has to stand as one of the best examples of bad taste for a synth
part... not to mention, it was off-key to boot.
Greg
nick...@aol.com
Dissenting voice here. I like the sound of the Lucky Man solo; it must
have been awesome around 1970 or so when it first appeared.
Emerson is a monster keyboard talent. Hipness is not restricted solely
to jazz players.
j_ns...@msn.com
Whether you personally find, say, Emerson's '67 "Sombrero Sam" duff or
not is one thing (have you heard it?), but the larger point is that
jazz-rock fusion didn't arise in a vacuum among "real jazz" artists
during the late '60s, as some jazz fans seem to like to imagine. "Real
jazz" artists who decided to take up jazz-rock fusion were influenced
by the jazz-rock fusion trend created by "rock"-associated artists such
as Ginger Baker and Keith Emerson during '66-'68, and those (mere)
"rock"-associated artists deserve credit for their role in that. So,
for instance, anybody who likes Miles's rock-influenced stuff shouldn't
say "progressive rock" was a dead end, because early "progressive rock"
was important in leading to Miles's rock-influenced stuff.
Best wishes,
Joseph Scott
Tom Walls
j_ns...@msn.com says...
Sly and Hendrix.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
j_ns...@msn.com
Hendrix took a meeting with Emerson about playing in a band together,
and called King Crimson one of his favorite bands. Hendrix was an
important part of the "progressive" rock movement in the U.K., a
movement that built to the point that it could fan the flames of
interest in jazz-rock fusion among U.S. jazz musicians -- contrary to
recents-decades myth, as of '67, the word "progressive" was in
widespread use in the U.K. to describe ambitious, fusion-ish rock.
"Fusion," the expression, that caught on in the U.K. before it did in
the U.S. too. Of course, during an era when the Beatles and the Rolling
Stones were the most respected rock bands in the world, the U.K. bands,
including Hendrix's, could have a lot of influence on U.S. sounds,
including Sly's.
Joseph Scott
JC Martin
Miles cites Sly Stone, James Brown and Jimi Hendrix as influential to
his electric music. I've never heard him bring up Ginger Baker or Keith
Emerson.
-JC
Michael Fitzgerald
>Hendrix took a meeting with Emerson about playing in a band together,
>and called King Crimson one of his favorite bands.
King Crimson did not exist until January 13, 1969. I doubt that
Hendrix heard them prior to the issue of their album on October 10,
1969. Possibly earlier from live shows, but I would have to check how
much Hendrix was in London between their first gig on April 9, 1969
and the release of the album.
Miles Davis recorded Bitches Brew between August 19 and 21, 1969 - and
had been well on his way from 1968 or so (Filles De Kilimanjaro, In A
Silent Way, etc.). I don't hear anything in what he was doing that is
related to a King Crimson influence.
The involvement of Emerson in the jazz world was much more on the
receiving end - he and the other members of The Nice were big fans of
the Charles Lloyd Quartet with Keith Jarrett, Jack DeJohnette - two
guys whose next stop was with Miles Davis.
Now, as for "Sombrero Sam" (which is a cover by The Nice of a Charles
Lloyd tune), it was never issued at the time, not as a single, not on
an album. It only appeared on BBC sessions - so, unless folks were
listening to their radio at the right moment, or if they heard The
Nice live, and they didn't set foot on U.S. soil until January 29,
1968 - when that particular tune was quite probably out of their
repertoire. Their interpretations of Bob Dylan were more the order of
the day.
I agree that Hendrix was certainly on the London scene at the right
time, but are we trying to pin that influence on him? I don't see The
Nice/King Crimson/Soft Machine side of things being influential on
American jazz-rock. Which doesn't mean I don't think it's important or
that I don't like it.
Mike
mike @ jazzdiscography.com
http://www.JazzDiscography.com - Gigi Gryce book - ARSC award winner!
he...@eskimau.com
If playing duff versions of tunes is all it takes, sure, Emerson
j_ns...@msn.com
> >Hendrix took a meeting with Emerson about playing in a band together,
> >and called King Crimson one of his favorite bands.
and you responded:
> King Crimson did not exist until January 13, 1969.[...]
Well, we can forget King Crimson in particular if you like, that's
fine: Hendrix was interested in the most progressive rock England had
to offer, consistently during '66 on. Was an important and respected
part of that scene with many influences and many musician friends
before Miles was interested in progressive rock. (I brought up JH's
enthusiasm for KC as part of trying to briefly suggest his allegiance
to and comradeship within the progressive rock scene -- which is
generally swept under the rug by the "psych"-loving "prog"-haters*
who've churned out a lot of the rock "scholarship" of the last few
decades -- because it had been suggested that Hendrix influencing Miles
is somehow _distinct from_ progressive rock influencing Miles.)
>
> The involvement of Emerson in the jazz world was much more on the
> receiving end - he and the other members of The Nice were big fans of
> the Charles Lloyd Quartet with Keith Jarrett, Jack DeJohnette - two
> guys whose next stop was with Miles Davis.
One could as easily say "the involvement of Miles Davis in the rock
world was much more on the receiving end", and... would that somehow
marginalize Miles from participation in the history of jazz-rock??
Would you say the Charles Lloyd Quartet were making jazz-rock before
The Nice were? As opposed to jazz?
>
> Now, as for "Sombrero Sam" (which is a cover by The Nice of a Charles
> Lloyd tune), it was never issued at the time, not as a single, not on
> an album. It only appeared on BBC sessions - so, unless folks were
> listening to their radio at the right moment, or if they heard The
> Nice live
Other U.K. musicians heard The Nice live. England is small, and bands
opened for each other and traveled together on package tours (e.g.,
Pink Floyd borrowed The Nice's guitarist for some shows during a
package tour, and Hendrix took home movies of Emerson playing during a
package tour).
Incidentally, it would be interesting to make a tally of how many other
rock bands were playing Charles Lloyd tunes in '67, other than
Emerson's. Lloyd was enjoying some strong fad popularity at the time,
but, in general, heavy-rock/jazzy-style performances of jazz-associated
tunes were still quite unusual during '67. (E.g., six months after it
came out, most people were still thinking Sgt. Pepper was revolutionary
boundaries-pushing rock, and Pepper had _very_ little jazz or classical
influence relative to The Nice playing Brubeck, or Sands or KC playing
Holst.)
> I agree that Hendrix was certainly on the London scene at the right
> time, but are we trying to pin that influence on him?
I was responding to the idea that (best I could understand the comment)
Miles wasn't influenced by early progressive rock, but was influenced
by Hendrix. Hendrix, including his first album, was part of early
"progressive" rock, so-called at the time, and Hendrix was influenced
by the U.K. musicians around him.
Anyway, the main issue as I see it is, if one keyboardist was playing
jazz-rock in Year X and another later in Year Y, and we call the second
one hip and the first one unhip, it raises questions about what hipness
is. Being somebody who's filed in the jazz section?
Best wishes,
Joseph Scott
*"'Psych'-loving 'prog' hater" is basically a contradiction in terms --
e.g. "The End" by The Doors is progressive rock stylistically, and is
psych music -- but a lot of the rock "scholarship" pretends otherwise.
Dan Buxbaum
> Hi Michael, I wrote:
>
>
>>>Hendrix took a meeting with Emerson about playing in a band together,
>>>and called King Crimson one of his favorite bands.
>
>
> and you responded:
>
>
>>King Crimson did not exist until January 13, 1969.[...]
>
>
> Well, we can forget King Crimson in particular if you like, that's
> fine: Hendrix was interested in the most progressive rock England had
> to offer, consistently during '66 on.
Actually, Joseph you are correct in your statement that King Crimson was
one of Jimi's favorite bands. In fact, Robert Fripp tells the *infamous*
story of Hendrix coming up to shake his hand after a gig in London. Jimi
said: "Shake my left hand; it's closer to my heart." (I think his right
arm was in a sling from bashing up a hotel room alittle bit before that
or something.)
And Jimi did jam with Keith Emerson (according to Emerson) when he was
in the Nice. I think only on bass--no tape has surfaced.
Jimi also liked Jethro Tull (who were decided more a blues band at that
time) even though they had already recorded Kirk's "Serenade for a
Cuckoo" on their 1st album in '68. Tull opened for Hendrix for a few
European shows from Jan. 9-10, 1969 at his request. And of course,
there's Cream.
--
Of course, Miles ain't gonna say anything about some pale dudes from
England (whether he had heard their music or not). <g>
--
"The things that are best always fall outside categories." -- Robert Pinsky
Tom Walls
j_ns...@msn.com says...
> Anyway, the main issue as I see it is, if one keyboardist was playing
> jazz-rock in Year X and another later in Year Y, and we call the second
> one hip and the first one unhip, it raises questions about what hipness
> is. Being somebody who's filed in the jazz section?
>
execution of an idea, rather than its mere presentation.
Michael Fitzgerald
>Would you say the Charles Lloyd Quartet were making jazz-rock before
>The Nice were? As opposed to jazz?
I once wrote that it is instructive to think (sometimes, not
exclusively) of The Nice as an electric version of the Charles Lloyd
Quartet. Certainly Lloyd was dipping his toe in the rock world as
early as 1966 (with the original Sombrero Sam) and eventually was
accepted by the rock audience with his Fillmore gigs. I think that
Lloyd was pushing at the barrier from one side (the jazz side), but he
never crossed it.
There were plenty of others who were pushing things, not all of them
influenced by each other, and not all of them influenced by the same
people.
Obviously (to me, someone who's heard the early stuff), Keith Emerson
was much "hipper" than the typical rock musician. (It's also
instructive sometimes to think of The Nice as an electric version of
the Jacques Loussier Trio.) He was borrowing from Tristano and Monk
too (and using Pepper Adams on a recording session!). If the debate is
on whether Emerson was "hip" or not, I can provide tons of supporting
evidence that he was. So, as for that, we're in agreement, I think.
The other, perhaps more typical jazz-rock thing in Britain was Brian
Auger, who was more into the "soulful" and "funky" bag than The Nice
were.
But as for influential on Miles Davis, I'm not sure I am following
your argument - The Nice was *very big* in the UK community, and
*very* influential on other musicians there in that period, I totally
agree about that. But I don't see that influence transferring over
across to America. I see the UK progressive scene as quite insulated.
Hendrix, who lived in London, is very much an exception. And what I
hear is *his* influence on the English bands, not the other way
around.
If we believe that "The Wind Cries Mary" was an inspiration for
"Mademoiselle Mabry," then that's fine, but what about that can be
connected to the UK bands? What I hear in later electric Miles as a
Hendrix influence is more from the Buddy Miles drumming thing. And I
hear Sly Stone in there too.
Sgt. Pepper *was* "revolutionary boundaries-pushing rock" - but not
because of any jazz or classical influence.
BTW, there's quite a bit of irrational stretching in some accounts -
Paul Tingen writes that "Miles In The Sky" was a reference to "Lucy In
The Sky With Diamonds." I'm not buying it.
Melodious Thunk
<snip>
> Anyway, the main issue as I see it is, if one keyboardist was playing
> jazz-rock in Year X and another later in Year Y, and we call the second
> one hip and the first one unhip, it raises questions about what hipness
> is.
What is hip? Tell me, tell me.
Michael Fitzgerald
wrote:
>In fact, Robert Fripp tells the *infamous*
>story of Hendrix coming up to shake his hand after a gig in London. Jimi
>said: "Shake my left hand; it's closer to my heart."
Yep - May 14, 1969.
That Hendrix said, "This is the best group in the world!" after seeing
King Crimson that night isn't really that big a deal. Hendrix liked
tons of people, and seemed to have frequently gone over the top with
his praise - on a TV interview, Hendrix called Billy Gibbons his
favorite guitar player.
>Of course, Miles ain't gonna say anything about some pale dudes from
>England (whether he had heard their music or not). <g>
Can't really agree (even in fun) since he hired those white Brits
McLaughlin and Holland.
j_ns...@msn.com
Do you think the quality of the execution of The Nice's 1967 jazz-rock
was low?
Joseph Scott
Tom Walls
j_ns...@msn.com says...
any bones to pick with "prog-rock". I loved Soft Machine -- who, of
course, toured with Hendrix.
I led a band for a couple of years that combined rockabilly and early
R&B with Count Basie and some left-of-center jazz influences. Maybe the
audience just wasn't ready for us, but I think it was our crappy
execution that kept us from having an impact.
Michael Fitzgerald
wrote:
>Maybe the audience just wasn't ready for us, but I think it was our
>crappy execution that kept us from having an impact.
Audiences apparently adore crappy execution, based on the history of
what makes it.
"If you steer clear of quality, you're all right" - Pete Townshend
j_ns...@msn.com
Brian
Auger, who was more into the 'soulful' and 'funky' bag than The Nice
were."
I agree. Auger used the word "fusion" to describe his own jazz- and
rock-(and soul- and...) influenced music on a 1968 album (recorded late
'67 and issued early '68, IIRC).
"But as for influential on Miles Davis, I'm not sure I am following
your argument[....]"
The notion of anyone in The Nice or Cream as a direct, conscious
influence on Miles was brought into the discussion by someone else, not
me. I think Emerson was one of the innovators in a general scene that
truly influenced and paved the way for Miles's general scene. Hendrix
is an example of a link between the scenes.
"The Nice was *very big* in the UK community, and
*very* influential on other musicians there in that period, I totally
agree about that. But I don't see that influence transferring over
across to America. I see the UK progressive scene as quite insulated."
You may be using "progressive" more narrowly than I am. The Beatles,
The Yardbirds, The Who were called "progressive" at the time. Would the
success of Keith Moon's extravagant drumming, e.g., have helped pave
the way some for the acceptance in the late '60s of jazz-rock? I don't
see why not.
"And what I hear is [Hendrix's] influence on the English bands, not the
other way
around."
I think there was lots of both. For instance, when Hendrix dove in to
the psychedelic sound, he was diving into a largely preexisting sound
that many U.K. and U.S. bands had created.
I've heard U.K. singles by other acts that sound a _lot_ like singles
Hendrix put out a bit later, but I'm fascinated by other styles of
music these days so I'm rusty on examples. (They're similar cases to
some recordings by Love sounding a lot like stuff Hendrix did a bit
later.)
"[...]Sgt. Pepper *was* "revolutionary boundaries-pushing rock" - but
not
because of any jazz or classical influence."
Well, some spice here and there -- e.g., certainly "She's Leaving Home"
would sound different if classical music had never existed -- but far
less going on in that regard on the album in general than playing a
Holst piece on electric guitar. Anyway, I don't know why I brought up
classical -- it's irrelevant to what we're talking about, the growth of
jazz-rock as a style and who contributed to it when.
Best,
Joseph Scott
Tom Walls
mi...@OMITjazzdiscography.com says...
too good for this world! :)
j_ns...@msn.com
Joseph Scott
tarkusnj
the Moog...you have no clue what is was like to hear a Moog when ELP
first took it around on tour. You have no clue....
tarkusnj
Dan Buxbaum
>
> That Hendrix said, "This is the best group in the world!" after seeing
> King Crimson that night isn't really that big a deal. Hendrix liked
> tons of people, and seemed to have frequently gone over the top with
> his praise - on a TV interview, Hendrix called Billy Gibbons his
> favorite guitar player.
I would never say that "Hendrix liked tons of people." Quite the
opposite really--he was very picky and dismissive of most of the
rock/pop of his time. He DID really like Cream, Dylan, the Beatles, King
Crimson, Billy Gibbons, Coltrane, Zappa, Ravi Shankar, Chicago Transit
Authority, Jethro Tull, indigenous African & Native American musics, and
all his beloved R&B and blues influences (hope i haven't forgotten
anybody). When he did say complimentary things about 'lesser'-talents
it was usually just playing nice to an 'unexperienced' journalist's
annoying question. He certainly didn't praise all the early British
"psychedelic/progressive" acts. For instance, with Pink Floyd, he liked
their "integration of sound effects" but bemoaned their lack of a good
"beat".
---
(Of course, Hendrix did also have "jazzy" jams with Larry Young, John
McLaughlin and Tony Williams -- mostly due to Mitch Mitchell's
suggestions who had shared an apartment with Tony Williams.)
---
But a nice anecdote about Jimi's reaction to jazz comes from the liner
notes to the 'Heavy Sounds' record by Elvin Jones & Richard Davis:
"When, for instance, Jimi Hendrix drummer Mitch Mitchell played one of
Elvin's lps for his boss, Hendrix's reaction, according to an interview
with him published in the "East Village Other", was to turn to Mitchell
and exclaim: "That's you!"
----
Getting back to the Keith Emerson jazz connection, it's trivia question
time. Name the jazz standard that Emerson (on organ) recorded with Mitch
Mitchell on drums in 1970. (Easy I know!)
>
>
>>Of course, Miles ain't gonna say anything about some pale dudes from
>>England (whether he had heard their music or not). <g>
>
>
> Can't really agree (even in fun) since he hired those white Brits
> McLaughlin and Holland.
True, i thought of that myself too, of course. But it's one thing to
state that somebody was comparably talented/influential and another to
appreciate their talents and hire them as a sideman. For instance, Frank
Zappa said that in the mid-70's he had never heard the music of
Fripp/King Crimson, which is highly unlikely--but why should he give
props to another current successful 'creative' band at the time. (Might
have taken record sales away him.) <g>
(And when Zappa did comment on the above-mentioned McLaughlin, his
initial statements were not complimentary!) But that's a whole 'nother
discussion about FZ's quirks.
---
But I do agree that the early British prog groups had probably zero
influence on Miles Davis.
j_ns...@msn.com
> But I do agree that the early British prog groups had probably zero
> influence on Miles Davis.
Other than the British/American prog group led by Hendrix, few of them
may have had a direct influence on Miles, but as a crowd producing
gradual change in what was accepted in "rock" over the years '66-'68,
bringing jazz into rock far more than it was in '65, in a _particular_
variety of ways (after all, the ways rock and jazz could potentially
have been combined during the '60s are limitless), they seem to have
had an important influence on how jazz-rock sounded by the time a large
number of (primarily) jazz musicians embraced it, I think. As of '66,
when Roger McGuinn was trying to impress his audience by sounding like
Coltrane, etc., just about no jazz musician was trying to impress his
audience yet by sounding rock-influenced.
The fact, for instance, that the term "fusion" started in England with
people like John Mayer and Brian Auger, and then later became a popular
term in the U.S. too, that fits with the notion that U.K. musicians
were inspiring U.S. musicians quite a lot overall, seems to me, or why
glom on to the U.K. guys' terminology.
I completely agree with your allusion to Miles and Zappa (and Fripp,
for that matter, and Page, and...) not enthusiastically acknowledging
influences -- as smart businessmen, they knew not to go out of their
way to do that, all of them. Better for the bank balance to let the fan
boys see ya as a font of essentialist primal totemic... well, you know
what I'm sayin'.
Joseph Scott
Michael Fitzgerald
wrote:
>When he did say complimentary things about 'lesser'-talents
>it was usually just playing nice to an 'unexperienced' journalist's
>annoying question.
I guess that's what I'm pointing out. I can't recall him saying a
negative thing about someone. But it's been quite a while since I read
the interviews.
>Getting back to the Keith Emerson jazz connection, it's trivia question
>time. Name the jazz standard that Emerson (on organ) recorded with Mitch
>Mitchell on drums in 1970. (Easy I know!)
FJD - Yep - and it's a nice version too. Actually around May 1969.
Unfortunately no mention in Emerson's autobiography that I can see.
But here's some photos:
Tom Walls
j_ns...@msn.com says...
> As of '66,
> when Roger McGuinn was trying to impress his audience by sounding like
> Coltrane, etc., just about no jazz musician was trying to impress his
> audience yet by sounding rock-influenced.
>
>
the 60s "soul jazz" thing was largely a nod to the R&B and rock
audience.
TODD TAMANEND CLARK
> With the recent passing of Robert Moog, the godfather
> of the synthesizer, I'm wondering if any jazz
> keyboardists ever used his instruments in their music?
To name but a few, there are Chick Corea, Don Preston,
George Duke, Herbie Hancock, Paul Bley, Ray Manzarek,
Sun Ra, and myself.
I'm an endorsement artist for Moog Music, and this is
a memorial I wrote last week for Bob Moog:
My first visual encounter with a keyboard synthesizer
was on January 8, 1968, when Micky Dolenz played a
modular Moog on The Monkees television show,
performing the song "Daily Nightly". I was a fifteen
year old sophomore at Waynesburg High School, and I
have been a Moog fanatic ever since that fateful day.
Over the years, I have collected and utilized several
dozen American-made electronic instruments, but the
Moogs have always remained my favorites. My past
Moogs include the Minimoog, Micromoog, Polymoog,
Vocoder, Taurus, Liberation, and Memorymoog, while
currently I use the Etherwave Theremin, the Ring
Modulator, and a customized black Voyager that is my
pride and joy extraordinaire.
The passing of Robert Arthur Moog on August 21, 2005,
saddens me deeply. In fact, we are all diminished by
this melancholy milestone. But although the material
world lost a great inventor and a wonderful human
being, the spiritual world gained a legend.
My keyboard playing son, X Tecumseh Clark, and I were
unable to make the long drive to North Carolina for
the official memorial service, so we held a local
ceremony here in Pennsylvania. Our heart-felt
condolences go out to Bob's surviving family members,
friends, and co-workers.
Sincerely,
Todd Tamanend Clark
Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian
Proud Endorser of Moog Synthesizers
The Monongahela River, Turtle Island
http://tinyurl.com/5uu5c
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Owls In Obsidian (CD: Instrumental, 2000)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc
Staff, Mask, Rattle (2-CD: Instrumental, 2002)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2
Monongahela Riverrun (CD: Instrumental, 2004)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc3
Nova Psychedelia (2-CD: Vocal, 2005)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc4
TODD TAMANEND CLARK
model of synthesizer that Pete Cosey used on the 1975
tour with Miles Davis that resulted in the brilliant
"Agharta" and "Pangaea" albums.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
TODD TAMANEND CLARK
Synthesist/Guitarist/Percussionist/Flutist
j_ns...@msn.com
Definitely "soul"/"R&B" was mixed in with jazz lots well before '66. My
understanding is that boogaloo music mainly came out of Latin and
soul/R&B, so no I don't see "rock" influence as a big part of what was
going on there (which isn't to say it was no part at all, of course!).
The amount of rock influence heard in let's say the guitar playing in
The Nice's jazzier stuff -- I think there was very little of that (I
mean that amount of rock influence, not less) getting mixed with jazz
before '66, far far less than in '68-'69.
Joseph Scott
j_ns...@msn.com
Definitely "soul"/"R&B" was mixed in with jazz lots, way before '66. My
understanding is that boogaloo music mainly came out of Latin and
soul/R&B, so no I don't see "rock" influence as a big part of what was
going on there (which isn't to say it was no part at all, of course).
The amount of rock influence heard in let's say the guitar playing on
The Nice's Brubeck -- I think there was very little of that (I mean
that amount of rock influence, not less) getting mixed with jazz during
'64-'65. Far, far less of that going on than in '68-'69.
Joseph Scott