Is Diana Krall a man?
Ed
after hearing her I'm completely and utterly confused. Still trying to wear
off my incredulous expression after hearing her do Under My Skin. Okay I
admit, my favorite singers (particularly girl singers) reigned supreme from
the mid 30s to late 50s. What has happened to the female jazz vocalist?
Aren't female vocalists meant to sound like a seductive woman? Or is she a
freak of nature? Insight appreciated! Ed
PRProf
>
He must be thinking of Jessica Williams...
Bill
Steve Cooper
I guess you haven't heard of Shirley Horn, a vocalist with a style quite
similar to Krall's (or is it the other way around?). Or how about Ella
Fitzgerald. I wouldn't say she had a seductive style either. You must be
hung up on Julie London and Peggy Lee.
"Ed" <E...@Ed.noemail> wrote in message
news:RhP_9.38219$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Dan Buxbaum
Krall's definitely a woman even though she does sorta have that Elvis-like
lip-sneer-thing going on.
She ain't much of a singer, yeah.
Leonard Schreiman
is the Sarah Vaughn's, Chris Connor's and and Anita O'Day's of the world
are not easily replaceble.
I've heard the new breed, Karyn Allyson, Tierney Sutton, et. al and
while they are not bad singers they just don't seem to have that special
something that the earlier generation had.
Nou Dadoun
If you want some good gender bending, try Little Jimmy Scott,
a particular favorite is his version of Exodus (and On Broadway for
that matter) from The Source, an early-70s Atlantic album that was buried under
a contractual dispute but finally surfaced a couple of years ago.
My wife and I had a friend who's a fairly well-known early music
vocalist visiting from Chicago over for dinner and I put this on
just to see her reaction. Her ears perked up immediately and she
said, ok what's the story here?
Anybody seen the documentary on him that was doing the film
festival circuit last year?
------------------------------------------------------> Nou
====
Nou Dadoun | dad...@cs.ubc.ca | Black Swan Records,
Dpt. of Computer Science,|*******************| 3209 W. Broadway,
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Ebay seller:blackswanrecords; Current online auctions linked from our web page.
J-Man
As an older guy, I'm partial to the singers of the '50s, but the first
time I heard Krall on the radio 5 or 6 years ago, I marked her as
someone who had something new to say. When so many singers belt out
bogus, overbearing scat "improvisations," Krall, like so many classic
singers, makes more music and verbal sense by making small but telling
adjustments to the as-written melody. You might want to start down
the road named "Is She a Jazz Singer," but it is a dead end. Is iit
art? Is it entertaining? It is.
Also, she's an engaging pianist.
J.
bebopper
she doesn't have a real diaphragm vibrato. She doesn't have a bad
voice, and can deliver a song with feeling, but I think you're right
that the previous generation learned their craft before going out and
making records.
- bebopper
bebopper
gender-changing .... funny, but if they're true I'd expect her to
swing more..
(Yes I know that's a real chauvinistic statement <g>.)
- bebopper
PIANORUTH
>From: jmar...@hotNO-SPAMmail.com (J-Man)
************************************************
I noticed you described her as
"an engaging pianist"....wow...
I hope to be described with a little
more luster than the word "engaging"
someday when I reach the end of the
trail.
"Engaging" reminds me of the
critics who describe actors as
being "adequate". Not a great
compliment in either case!
BOBVL
I have all her CDs and quite a few double CDR sets of unissued material...I
like her singing, and her robust and inventive piano playing
And reflecting on the obnoxious question and looking at the pictures, so
lavishly spread out by her various Recording Companies, I would suggest the
questioners go for an eye test
=bobvl
Gary Hogan
I suppose Louie should have taken some singing lessons, too. What a
lousy voice he had! And that unorthodox phrasing! Whoa!
DK is ok. Try doing it yourself to get the real picture.
She gave me the chills on that old pot boiler, Garden In The Rain.
Was she singing " correctly? " Well, she gave me the chills... and that
means, for me, she was.
m b nelms
> A " real diaphram vibrato? " Are you kidding? You must be.
> I suppose Louie should have taken some singing lessons, too. What a
> lousy voice he had! And that unorthodox phrasing! Whoa!
Actually, I have no doubt you could hear Louis singing without a microphone,
and he had no problems with the breath control issue that is central to the
statement about vibrato--he was a trumpet player, after all. And phrasing
isn't the issue. Billie Holiday started off singing in speakeasies (sic?)
without a microphone (check out My Mother's Son In Law for an example of how
much sound she had). And Bessie Smith (a pre microphone singer, along with
Joe Turner) obviously had a huge sound. I contend you can get the sound you
want with correct technique (i. e. technique that won't collapse or cause
you fatigue over the long haul) more easily than with a singing technique
that doesn't engage all of the body. I worked with a very fine singer (B.)
who sang pretty much from her neck up. She sounded great (with a
microphone). However, she was always getting tired and hoarse. One night
another singer came in (J.) who understood how a singer can fill up a room.
They sang a duet together with B. on a mike and J. acoustic. And J.was
louder than B. It was very enlightening. By the way, both sounded like Jazz
singers. Some would probably prefer B. Even so, J. could easily do what B.
was doing, but B. couldn't go the other direction. Why? Because there are
some fundamental realities about singing (regardless of culture, etc.) that
have only been called into question with the use of microphones. In my
opinion, if you can't fill a room with your voice you have some work to do.
What will you do if the power goes out?
Some of it can be taste I suppose, but my two faves for sound are Sarah
Vaughan and Billy Eckstine. Both of them had a very correct technique--which
is part of why they sounded so good. Dianne Reeves has a similar quality.
I was watching a video of Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin (who
talks about singing from the stomach in an interview) singing together and I
noticed there was no microphone in sight--which means they put out enough
sound for an overhead mike to do the work. Doris Day had a huge sound as
well (Sarah Vaughan was a big fan of Doris Day, incidentally).
I also notice that Carmen Bradford and Tony Bennett make a point of singing
a tune without a microphone every so often. It does say a lot about what
kind of singer you are.
A lot of it gets back to the horn / voice question. Jazz starts with the
voice (Bessie Smith) then the horn (Louis Armstrong) and goes back and
forth. Is an unsupported sound on a horn acceptable? Why should it be on a
singer? Compare Chet Baker's singing to Tony Bennett's Gentle Rain and
you'll see what I mean. Bennett gets the same effect and does it
better--because he's got more in reserve.
I do enjoy Diana Krall, but her voice doesn't blow me away. She's musical,
and she likes good songs and hires good players, so I usually enjoy her
work. I hope she continues to be popular, because it means more people are
listening to standards.
sgordon
: Some of it can be taste I suppose, but my two faves for sound are Sarah
: Vaughan and Billy Eckstine.
Mine is June Christy.
Scott
wrkit
I'm not commenting on Diana's voice, but when it comes to piano, I would
direct that concern to Jessica Williams...:)
FWIW,
wrkit
Rutman
singer/player." And then you guys go on and on about how she's not as good
as this one or that one. WHO CARES? The real question is: Can we take her
for what she is and still enjoy the music. For me, the answer is a
resounding YES. Keep it coming, Diana.
Sideways Jaye
I concur heartily. All the kvetching about DK comes off as envy,
particularly the quibbling about the technical aspects of her vocals.
What a bunch of self-appointed experts. As Max Leggett says, she
hires and features great guitar players so shut the fuck up.
m b nelms
"Sideways Jaye" <ju...@nbc29.com> wrote in message
news:a6bf1bf8.03020...@posting.google.com...
Gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize it wasn't appropriate to explore a
technical issue about the making of jazz music when it was brought up, with
pros and cons being discussed. In the future I'll refrain from saying
anything that will interfere with your 'self appointed' aesthetics.
Buz Overbeck
Nah..., Ethel Merman.
Bob Orr
for jazz singers just as there are several types of pop/rock singers,
sopranos, and so forth. DK is one who, like Nat Cole, Sinatra, Hartman, et.
al., are more known for their phrasing than for their improvisation on
melody lines. Just because a performer stays close to the original notes
is no reason to pshaw their jazz singing. She stays within the limits of
what she can do, treats the music with respect, is an adequate pianist (in
concert) and shares the spotlight freely with the other members of her
group. In her own words, she likes "saloon songs" as apparently do the cd
buyers.
She is great fun to watch live and much jazzier than she is on record.
Bob Orr
"Sideways Jaye" <ju...@nbc29.com> wrote in message
news:a6bf1bf8.03020...@posting.google.com...
PIANORUTH
>From: "Bob Orr" rh...@iupui.edu
>Date: 2/10/03 12:26 PM Eastern
">She stays within the limits of
>what she can do, treats the music with respect, is an adequate pianist...."
*********************************************
I mentioned this once before in a
previous response regarding Krall...
....
WHO WANTS TO BE KNOWN
AS JUST AN 'ADEQUATE' PIANIST....
That is not much of a legacy!!!!
That is like an athelete spending
most of his time 'on the bench'
watching the best players play in the
game,
, and having fans in the crowd
cheering for the players on the bench
and ignoring the star players on the
field!!! What a country!!!
You mean being an 'adequate' player
is something to strive for? Wow...
are we that desparate in today's jazz
scene? I don't think so!
*********************************************
Dave Holmes
Bob Orr wrote:
> She is great fun to watch live and much jazzier than she is on record.
Actually, I got the opposite imprssion after seeing her live. She seemed
a very unengaging performer onstage, at times delivering a song seated
on the end of the piano bench with her hands in her lap. I got the
impression that she was very uncomfortable in front of an audience.
Love her CDs.
D.
Brian Rost
>
> She is great fun to watch live and much jazzier than she is on record.
I have a recording I got off the radio of her playing at Newport in 2001
and I liked it much better than any of her CDs I've heard on the radio.
--
Brian Rost
Stargen, Inc.
**********************************************************************
Bob Orr
I doubt she would have a recording contract. She is a singer of note who
happens to be an adequate pianist. I would put Mel Torme's piano playing in
a similar category - he was adequate - but he was one helluva jazz singer.
Didn't mean to suggest that the who DK package was merely adequate.
Bob
"PIANORUTH" <pian...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030212103646...@mb-ma.aol.com...
Bob Orr
Perhaps the sellout crowd of more than 3,000 helped. Perhaps the group was
well-rested. Sometimes fatigue detracts from a performance; sometimes a
cold audience is the problem; sometimes its PMS ;-) Who knows. She chatted
at length with the audience. Seemed quite comfortable and shared what
appeared to be intimate and personal thoughts about her professional life.
The show was billed for 90 minutes without intermission. She played for two
and a quarter hours. It was a great night.
Bob
"Dave Holmes" <jdho...@REMOVEcharm.net> wrote in message
news:3E4A6F53...@REMOVEcharm.net...
Panasonic
> WHO WANTS TO BE KNOWN
> AS JUST AN 'ADEQUATE' PIANIST....
One who is known as less than adequate? A less than mediocre player?
Sideways Jaye
didn't realize it wasn't appropriate to explore a
> technical issue about the making of jazz music when it was brought up, with
> pros and cons being discussed. In the future I'll refrain from saying
> anything that will interfere with your 'self appointed' aesthetics.
Actually, I didn't catch that your comments were so directed at DK,
just a long-winded discussion of correct breath support technique.
All you said about DK was:
"I do enjoy Diana Krall, but her voice doesn't blow me away. She's
musical,
and she likes good songs and hires good players, so I usually enjoy
her
work. I hope she continues to be popular, because it means more people
are
listening to standards."
Saying "her voice doesn't blow me away" hardly qualifies as a
technical discussion, and, if you notice, more of the other experts
simply say something along the lines of "she's no (insert favorite
50's or 60's era singer here)," hardly incisive commentary.
bebopper
down, and had a real vibrato. Karin's comes from the throat and jaw.
She has an Ok voice, and a way with a tune, and looks wya hot in the
pink sweater photo, but she ain't Sarah .....
- bebopper
still...@webtv.net
did, and from the same instructor that taught Bob Dylan. There was a -
Dylan and Armstrong Opera Co. that quickly failed.
Mike
I'm sure this is meant as a joke. Surely
there can be no similarity between Dylan,
who couldn't carry a tune in a bushel basket,
and Armstrong, who especially as a younger
man, could carry several tunes at once, and leave
them all better than they were when he got them.
<still...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20051-3E5...@storefull-2374.public.lawson.webtv.net...
still...@webtv.net
and my ears perk up when the singing stops and he starts playing. I got
a kick out of the mental image of the Dylan and Armstrong Opera Co.
Richard Tabnik
I agree...furthermore, i would say that Pops practically
singlehandedly *invented* jazz improvising as we know it
for vocalists and instrumentalists alike!...all the great jazz
singers like Billie Holiday to all the pop singers from Bing
Crosby to Frank and everyone has been influenced
by this genius who can only be called the most
influential artist of the 20th Century...and few
come close to his great singing...check it out!
Best Wishes for a Peaceful Life in a Happy World in the New Millennium!
Sincerely,
Richard Tabnik, Jazz Alto Saxophonist
e-mail: <rcta...@inch.com>
WWW: <http://www.inch.com/~rctabnik>
<http://www.newartistsrecords.com>
"Music is the thing of the world that I love most."
Samuel Pepys [1633-1703]
Mike
but one thing I've never heard anyone do
is imitate his ability to use "call and response"
structures on his own lines. He splits himself into
two melodic strains, and alternates between
them. Like just being a genius wasn't enough--
he wanted to be two of them, and sing a duet.
Anybody know of another singer who can
do this?
--
Mike
"Richard Tabnik" <rcta...@inch.com> wrote in message
news:3e5d7...@nntp2.nac.net...
Dennis J. Kosterman
wrote:
><still...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:20051-3E5...@storefull-2374.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>> < I suppose Louie should have taken singing lessons too.> I believe he
>> did, and from the same instructor that taught Bob Dylan. There was a -
>> Dylan and Armstrong Opera Co. that quickly failed.
>I'm sure this is meant as a joke. Surely
>there can be no similarity between Dylan,
>who couldn't carry a tune in a bushel basket,
>and Armstrong, who especially as a younger
>man, could carry several tunes at once, and leave
>them all better than they were when he got them.
I'm sure it *was* meant as a joke, and I thought it was a pretty funny
one. And I also think Dylan at his best is a pretty good singer.
Probably not in Armstrong's league, but I think the difference is more
a matter of consistency than of peak quality. Dylan doesn't have the
most appealing voice (but then neither did Armstrong), but he knows
how to sing. He tends to be experimental with phrasing, etc., and the
experiments aren't always successful. When he fails he can sound
pretty awful, but when he's on he's one hell of a singer. I don't
expect much sympathy for that view in this newsgroup, but there it is.
Dennis J. Kosterman
den...@tds.net
Faizal Ali
20th century, in terms of his expansion of the idea of what could be
considered "good" singing. There was an article in the Wire a year or two
back that said much the same thing.
"Dennis J. Kosterman" <den...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:3e5d8595...@news.tds.net...
Richard Thurston
wrote:
>Actually, I've often felt that Dylan was the most influential singer of the
>20th century, in terms of his expansion of the idea of what could be
>considered "good" singing. There was an article in the Wire a year or two
>back that said much the same thing.
>
I think without question Dylan is the most influential singer of the
twentieth century.
The elimination of almost all barriers between performer and audience
(hey I can do that!!!) is the result of his contribution. 'Honesty'
replaces musicianship and 'feeling' upstages craft. The adenoidal
wheezing of Dylan has inspired countless bazillions of wannabes to
share their innermost secrets with the rest of us.
Now any fey youth with a guitar and a good dose of self-absorption can
make his/her mark in the music game.
I am still undecided as to whether or not this is a good thing.
Richard Thurston
Abjorn
"Richard Thurston" <ric...@groverthurston.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:7ejs5v8sj7a58tqal...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:38:28 GMT, "Faizal Ali" <f....@utoronto.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, I've often felt that Dylan was the most influential singer of
the
> >20th century, in terms of his expansion of the idea of what could be
> >considered "good" singing. There was an article in the Wire a year or
two
> >back that said much the same thing.
>
> >
>
> I think without question Dylan is the most influential singer of the
> twentieth century.
>
Are you serious, man?!?!
I could name about 2 000 000 people who are better singers than Dylan!
Abjorn
Richard Thurston
Wasn't talking about 'good'. Talking about influential.
Two quite different things I'd wager.
Richard Thurston
void
<ric...@groverthurston.com> wrote:
>
> The elimination of almost all barriers between performer and audience
> (hey I can do that!!!) is the result of his contribution.
Do you think those barriers existed before 1877?
--
Ben
"An art scene of delight
I created this to be ..." -- Sun Ra
Richard Thurston
<fl...@parhelion.firedrake.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:55:49 GMT, Richard Thurston
><ric...@groverthurston.com> wrote:
>>
>> The elimination of almost all barriers between performer and audience
>> (hey I can do that!!!) is the result of his contribution.
>
>Do you think those barriers existed before 1877?
I was pretty young then and don't recall.
Richard Thurston
Carnak
>....
>Now any fey youth with a guitar and a good dose of self-absorption can
>make his/her mark in the music game.
>
are probably millions to one.
Abjorn
All right, I have to lower that figure by 50 % then. ;-)
Abjorn
wieczor...@gmail.com
I hear IT and I See IT
R u blind
Its a man
UCLAN
Nicole Massey
"UCLAN" <UC...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:csnia9...@mid.individual.net...
with voice as my principal instrument, and I've yet to hear any male who can
do a contralto chest voice like that.