Phrygian Mode in "Flamenco Sketches"
David M Marriott Jr
and have come to a slight stumbling block and area of discussion.
Supposedly, the tune is based on five modal scales: C Ionian, Ab Ionian,
Bb Ionian, D Phrygian, and G Aeolian. However, on the recording, there
are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
is more of a D triad with an Eb triad. Doesn't this negate the whole
concept behind the modal simplicity? Or is the F# a standard color note
not within the modal scale that is commonly used? Please help to clear
this up.
--David Marriott, Jr.
(dav...@u.washington.edu)
Vance Maverick
Everything you write is correct; the only question is why the passage
is stated to be in `D Phrygian'. I can point you to parts of an
answer. The older European modes, at least in church music, aren't
really so `simple'; there's room for chromatic alterations, etc. And
the change from minor to major third in Phrygian, particularly at the
end of a piece, is one of them. But I think the feel Miles had in
mind wasn't `modal' in the sense of classical-music history, but
`Spanish' (cf. `Spanish Key' on _Bitches Brew_), i.e. `sit on the
dominant of a minor key as if it were the tonic'. This way, you can
hear the `Phrygian' of the fourth phase of the piece as a long
dominant pedal before the fifth, on G. And you'll find that, in
classical common practice, one can mix major and minor thirds over
this dominant -- I believe the original _Kind of Blue_ gang does this
each time around.
Vance
Matthew H. Fields
the Spanish color most influenced by Moorish heritage. One expects to
hear one of the "gypsy modes" ("Arabic modes", "Jewish modes",
"Turkish modes", "Romanian modes", "Hungarian modes") in this music,
e.g.
D Eb F# G A Bb C D
or
D Eb F# G A Bb C# D
Marc Sabatella
> Supposedly, the tune is based on five modal scales: C Ionian, Ab Ionian,
> Bb Ionian, D Phrygian, and G Aeolian. However, on the recording, there
> are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
> Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
> is more of a D triad with an Eb triad.
Or, a D "Spanish phrygian" scale - a D phrygian scale with an added F#.
Doesn't really matter what you call it.
> Doesn't this negate the whole
> concept behind the modal simplicity?
No. While simplicity is often a trait of modal music, it is by no means a
necessary condition. What is more relevant is whether the scales are forming
a harmonic progression, or whether they are strung together in some other
order. Actually, this D scale leads to the following G scale in a way that is
extremely suggestive of a V resolving to I; I think the F# is used to emphasize
that fact. We discussed this recently. If you want to deny the V-I
relationship, don't play the F#; if you want to acknowledge the V-I, play the
F#. It's up to you.
BTW, the scale sequence you list is off in a couple of other places as well:
the Ab should be mixolydian, and I am pretty sure the G at the end is dorian.
--
Marc Sabatella
--
ma...@fc.hp.com
http://www.fortnet.org/~marc/
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
/B{>
On 11 May 1995, David M Marriott Jr wrote:
> I have been playing Miles Davis' "Flamenco Sketches" in my school combo
> and have come to a slight stumbling block and area of discussion.
> Supposedly, the tune is based on five modal scales: C Ionian, Ab Ionian,
> Bb Ionian, D Phrygian, and G Aeolian. However, on the recording, there
> are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
> Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
> is more of a D triad with an Eb triad. Doesn't this negate the whole
> concept behind the modal simplicity? Or is the F# a standard color note
> not within the modal scale that is commonly used? Please help to clear
> this up.
>
> --David Marriott, Jr.
> (dav...@u.washington.edu)
>
>
I think the point here really is that modal music isn't
necessarily based on a given mode; a variety of modes may be used over a
particular chord to achieve a variety of textures. For example, if you
were to play a major 7 chord, I could play in the ionian mode, or the
lydian mode, or any variation of any scale as long as it included the
root, the major third, the fifth, and the major seventh. Even these can
be left out at the discretion of the artist, provided no "close
substitutes are played (eg the b3 really doesn't work well on a major 7 chord
as long as the natural 3 is in the chord. Likewise the b7 if the natural
7 is being played).
A lot of modal tunes were written with open chord formats for
this very reason. Also you'll find that many modern writers require that
more extensions be present in the chords to be certain that the mode they
want will be played.
You also mention that your professor prefers to think of the
section in (some variation of) D minor to be conceived of in terms of two
triads. I noted your mention of modal simplicity. As you can see from
what I stated above, modal conception is not necessarily simple; it
involves chosing your textures very carefully to create the atmosphere
you want. You're on the right track in thinking of the F# as a colour
tone. The use of a phrygian sound is merely a suggestion, as is the
use of a dorian sound in So What; in the latter case it is also possible to
occasionally slip in a b6 or b9 for texture, provided the comping
instrument isn't beating out their natural counterparts at the time. For
the most part, the average soloist chooses to stay in the dorian mode,
because the aforementioned changes don't do a lot to enhance that
particular piece. In Flamenco Sketches (or All Blues dependent on your
historical familiarity), playing an Eb triad over the chord creates a
neat feeling of tension, in a sense a feeling of playing outside the
chord, and said tension may be (but need not be) released by returning to
a D minor. I personally don't see a D triad working if the band is
pumping out a D minor chord. Simply fiewing the passage as Eb major over
D root does work; what you are doing is playing an inversion of Eb major
7, and thus the mode you end up with is D locrian, which is fair game
over the given chord (D minor 7 b9)... in essence all your professor did
was simplify this to a chordal concept to make it easier to visualize
that the locrian scale. Just playing over said mode might not be
particularly interesting, but playing the Eb triad gives some basis to
possible melodic ideas to use to traverse the passage.
I have noticed a lot of references to the Spanish feel of Flamenco
Sketches in other posts suggesting a reason for the occurrences of F#.
It is important to note that Flamenco Sketches is misnamed; there
was an error in the pressing of its original release, and this track was
mixed up with All Blues; in reality, what we now call All Blues was supposed
to be the Spanish styled piece, and the flamenco part was the
background. When both pieces became popular, it was decided it would be
easier to just leave the names instead of trying to correct people's
conceptions of the pieces, and thus the error in nomenclature has
remained, to this day; the re-releases of the album were never corrected.
At any rate, and however you choose to conceptualize the work,
good luck, and above all else, enjoy...
Greg Marks
/B{>
jeffrey a kurland
sketches" in response to david's original query about the phrygian mode
and F# in "f.s"....
From: "/B{>" <n2...@unb.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Phrygian Mode in "Flamenco Sketches"
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:53:01 -0300
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950516122034.16704C-100000@jupiter>
In-Reply-To: <3oshbi$r...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
DAVID SAYS:
> I have been playing Miles Davis' "Flamenco Sketches" in my school combo
> and have come to a slight stumbling block and area of discussion.
[snip...snip...stuff about modes in "flamenco sketches" deleted]
> --David Marriott, Jr.
> (dav...@u.washington.edu)
AND THEN YOU, GREG, SAY:
I think the point here really is that modal music isn't
necessarily based on a given mode; a variety of modes may be used over a
particular chord to achieve a variety of textures. For example, if you
want will be played.
[snip...snip...interesting stuff about modes and scales deleted...]
I have noticed a lot of references to the Spanish feel of Flamenco
Sketches in other posts suggesting a reason for the occurrences of F#.
It is important to note that Flamenco Sketches is misnamed; there
was an error in the pressing of its original release, and this track was
mixed up with All Blues; in reality, what we now call All Blues was supposed
to be the Spanish styled piece, and the flamenco part was the
background. When both pieces became popular, it was decided it would be
easier to just leave the names instead of trying to correct people's
conceptions of the pieces, and thus the error in nomenclature has
remained, to this day; the re-releases of the album were never corrected.
[snip...snip...minor deletions here]
WELL HERE I GO:
The problem is that that's not right! ;) sorry to be pedantic, but
bill evans wrote in the orignal liner notes to _kind of blues_ that:
"_flamenco sketches_ is a 6/8 12 measure blues form that produces its mood
through only a few modal changes and miles davis' free melodic conception.
_all blues_ is a series of five scales, each to played as long as the soloist
wishes until he has completed the series."
that is: only the TITLES were switched. "f.s." IS a free improvisation based
on five modes and "a.b." is the 6/8 "waltz" blues that we all know & love...
but can't play anyhwere as well as miles, bill, or 'trane ;) hence, "f.s." does
have the flameco feel from that phrygian technique.
best wishes: jeffrey
Kelly Bucheger
Greg Marks <n2...@unb.ca> writes:
I have noticed a lot of references to the Spanish
feel of Flamenco Sketches in other posts suggesting a
reason for the occurrences of F#. It is important to
note that Flamenco Sketches is misnamed; there was an
error in the pressing of its original release, and
this track was mixed up with All Blues; in reality,
what we now call All Blues was supposed to be the
Spanish styled piece, and the flamenco part was the
background. When both pieces became popular, it was
decided it would be easier to just leave the names
instead of trying to correct people's conceptions of
the pieces, and thus the error in nomenclature has
remained, to this day; the re-releases of the album
were never corrected.
I've never before heard it said that it was decided it would
be easier to just leave the incorrect names alone -- I'd
like to know your source for this information....
It IS true that in the initial release of KOB, the titles of
*Flamenco Sketches* and *All Blues* were transposed: that
is, on the LP, the loping 6/8 12-bar blues was called
*Flamenco Sketches*, and the piece based on five
sonorities/modes/scales/whatever was called *All Blues*.
It's NOT true, however, that re-releases of the album were
never corrected -- just take a look at the CD, which gives
the correct titles. What we now call *All Blues* -- that 6/8
blues -- is indeed what was *supposed* to be *All Blues*;
same with *Flamenco Sketches*.
(Even after correcting the tune names on subsequent
releases, wise Columbia never bothered correcting the name
transpositions in Bill Evans' liner notes -- an oversight
that remains a continuing source of confusion.)
When people are noting the "Spanish feel" of FS they are
indeed likely referring to the use of the Spanish phrygian
scale (or whatever we want to call it) on the penultimate
mode of the cycle. I hear nothing even vaguely "flamenco-ey"
in *All Blues*, however!
Kelly Bucheger
Buffalo, NY
--
Eric Nielsen
>> and have come to a slight stumbling block and area of discussion.
>> Bb Ionian, D Phrygian, and G Aeolian. However, on the recording, there
>> are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
>> Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
>> is more of a D triad with an Eb triad. Doesn't this negate the whole
>> concept behind the modal simplicity? Or is the F# a standard color note
>> not within the modal scale that is commonly used? Please help to clear
>> this up.
m> Everything you write is correct; the only question is why the passage
m> is stated to be in `D Phrygian'. I can point you to parts of an
m> answer. The older European modes, at least in church music, aren't
m> really so `simple'; there's room for chromatic alterations, etc. And
m> the change from minor to major third in Phrygian, particularly at the
m> end of a piece, is one of them. But I think the feel Miles had in
m> mind wasn't `modal' in the sense of classical-music history, but
m> `Spanish' (cf. `Spanish Key' on _Bitches Brew_), i.e. `sit on the
m> dominant of a minor key as if it were the tonic'. This way, you can
m> hear the `Phrygian' of the fourth phase of the piece as a long
m> dominant pedal before the fifth, on G. And you'll find that, in
m> classical common practice, one can mix major and minor thirds over
m> this dominant -- I believe the original _Kind of Blue_ gang does this
m> each time around.
Here are the scales I am hearing: C ionian, Ab mixolydian, Bb ionian, D
Spanish phrygian, G dorian.
Eric
--
|Fidonet: Eric Nielsen 1:259/2
|Internet: e...@gryn.org
Eric Nielsen
>> and have come to a slight stumbling block and area of discussion.
>> Supposedly, the tune is based on five modal scales: C Ionian, Ab Ionian,
>> Bb Ionian, D Phrygian, and G Aeolian. However, on the recording, there
>> are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
>> Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
>> is more of a D triad with an Eb triad. Doesn't this negate the whole
>> concept behind the modal simplicity? Or is the F# a standard color note
>> not within the modal scale that is commonly used? Please help to clear
>> this up.
Here are the scales I'm hearing: C ionian, Ab mixolydian, Bb ionian, D Spanish
phrygian (has F and F#), G dorian.
Robert Gwynne
> However, on the recording, there
> >> are many concert F#'s played. This note does not coincide with the D
> >> Phrygian scale: D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D. My professor claims that this section
> >> is more of a D triad with an Eb triad.
To each his own, but it's not very elegant thinking.
I hear it as a color note or a passing tone in the phrygian mode. Chick
Corea's phrygian stuff generally has this note or G# in E phrygian.
> >>Doesn't this negate the whole
> >> concept behind the modal simplicity?
Why? It's just one note. So you stick an extra note in. There is probably
another name for this particular mode, but I don't know what it is.
Bob Gwynne