What kind of trumpet?
RICHARD N. WEISMAN
great jazz players have used. For instance, I think Miles played a Martin
Committee in the 50's. But what kind of horn (and mouthpiece) did Chet Baker,
Clifford Brown, Louis Armstrong, etc. play?
Jeff Beer
A while ago, a lot of musicians played old Conns. I remember seeing
Freddie Hubbard, Maynard Ferguson, and some of Ellington's players with
them. I used to have one, but I don't know how old mine was.
Freddie plays a Callicchio, which has a model of his same name. Don
Ellis' quarter tone trumpet was made by Holton, I believe. Don Cherry
has a custom made Besson pocket cornet.
Chet played whatever he could borrow or get from a pawn shop.
One of the trumpet greats, Ornette Coleman, uses a Schilke. I think
Lester Bowie does also.
The Monettes are popular. Wynton and Terrance use the Raja, which has
the flash gordon fins. I understand Wynton has went away from the Raja
Samadhi, since it is very heavy. Art Farmer plays the Flumpet, which is
an invention of Monette's that is a horn somewhat between trumpet and
flugelhorn. It does have a small bell, though. I saw Art last night,
and he is doing some superb things with it. His attack comes through,
and he can get a very rich sound, or thin it out and sound squeezed.
He is an amazing player, and he has really come a long way with it from
when I heard him two years ago. Then, it seemed his sound was too
distant.
There has to be millions that use Bachs.
Jeff
Ted Pearlman
: >To start a new thread here, I am curious to find out what trumpets some of the
: >great jazz players have used. For instance, I think Miles played a Martin
: >Committee in the 50's. But what kind of horn (and mouthpiece) did Chet Baker,
: >Clifford Brown, Louis Armstrong, etc. play?
From what I've heard, Freddie (Hubbard) used a student model Yamaha all
through the early sixties on all those Blue Note Albums
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Pearlman - pea...@iia.org
Michael Fitzgerald
other horns when he was killed.
--
Michael Fitzgerald
Rutgers University
Kevin T Smith
>In article <306q4p$24...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>,
>RICHARD N. WEISMAN <rn...@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> wrote:
>One of the trumpet greats, Ornette Coleman, uses a Schilke.
Please tell me that was a joke. I like Ornette, and I can agree that
he is "great". It's just the "trumpet" part of that sentence that bothers me.
Jeff Beer
Ornette has done some great things on trumpet. Check out the Golden
Number.
Jeff
WVantrease
(RICHARD N. WEISMAN) writes:
I believe shortly after Dizzy Gillespie died that one of the magazines
said that he played at various times Martins and Kings, and that his last
horn was a Schilke, Jon Faddis gave him. It was reportedly at the factory
being overhauled when Dizzy died.
He seemed to have gone through a horn a decade.
Bill Vantrease
Joe Hellerstein
too. There used to be a Bach ad with him in Down Beat, and I think he
did an exclusive endorsement. Donald Byrd is now playing a
custom-made Bel Canto (Dick Akwright's company out of Best Repair in
Oakland), and a production model with his name may be on the way. Doc
Severinsen plays the "Akwright/Severinsen" Bel Canto model (not a bad
horn, but I couldn't bring myself to own a Severinsen model trumpet
:-) ). I know I've seen Freddie Hubbard albums from the 70's where he
was playing a Getzen Eterna flugel.
Slightly more generic info: the Couesnon is the "prototypical"
flugelhorn, one of the earliest and still one of the ones with the
best intonation, though with a brighter sound than some. Many of the
pros have used it. I think that Miles played one on some of the Gil
Evans things. Also, in the big band era the Kings were the horns to
beat. The silvertone cornets were apparently very popular with the
pros, and you can still find them used. They play really well, much
better than most things from that era.
Ahh, trumpet geeks. The trivia we acquire :-)
Joe Hellerstein
John Temmerman
Jeff Beer said:
JB> Chet played whatever he could borrow or get from a pawn shop.
as did Bird.
Long way from the "Sasaki" band at the U of I, huh, Jeff? (G)
..joHn
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Michael G. McMahon
(Joe Hellerstein) writes:
>Evans things. Also, in the big band era the Kings were the horns to
>beat. The silvertone cornets were apparently very popular with the
>pros, and you can still find them used. They play really well, much
>better than most things from that era.
>
I think the swing era Kings were the "Sliver Flair" model.
Equivalent these days to the King 301, if my memory serves me right
... I'm sure I'll be corrected if it doesn't!
>Ahh, trumpet geeks. The trivia we acquire :-)
:)
-mike
Jeff Beer
>In article <30p6mr$n...@ecom1.ecn.bgu.edu> uj...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:
>Superbone and Firebird trumpet as well as Don Ellis' 1/4 tone horns.
DO they still manufacture the 1/4 tone trumpet?
Jeff
Jeff Beer
John Temmerman <john.te...@midas.com> wrote:
>Long way from the "Sasaki" band at the U of I, huh, Jeff? (G)
Yup. He and Morgan Powell played at the Hot House a few years ago,
actually they also played earlier this year but I missed it.
Ray didn't recognize me at first. But hell, it has been over 10 years,
and I may have put on a pound or two. :)
Jeff
Keith Hedger
>Freddie Hubbard, Maynard Ferguson, and some of Ellington's playerswith
This would have had to be a LONG time ago....Maynard has been playing
his self-designed 'MF Horn' since the early 70s. These are made by
Holton...I used to own and play one (can you say LARGE bore? It was
like trying to play a coffee can!). Holton also manufactures Maynards
Superbone and Firebird trumpet as well as Don Ellis' 1/4 tone horns.
keith
>
>Jeff
--
=============================================================
= Keith Hedger| "It is a sad, yet beautiful world..." =
= | =
=============================================================
Keith Hedger
>too. There used to be a Bach ad with him in Down Beat, and I think he
>did an exclusive endorsement. Donald Byrd is now playing a
Yeah Woody played Bach...there was a period when he was endorsing
Yamahas, which had him in a series of ads with Marvin Stamm, but I
think he actually PLAYED Bachs the whole time...
>:-) ). I know I've seen Freddie Hubbard albums from the 70's where he
>was playing a Getzen Eterna flugel.
>
Freddie's main horn through the late 70s and early 80s was a
Calicchio...
>Evans things. Also, in the big band era the Kings were the horns to
>beat. The silvertone cornets were apparently very popular with the
>pros, and you can still find them used. They play really well, much
>better than most things from that era.
Yeah the first Dizzy upswept horns (the first MANUFACTURED ones, not
the original that was bent on the bandstand :-) ), were made by King.
I used to love their 'Silver Flair' trumpets back when I was in high
school.
>Joe Hellerstein
keith
Keith Hedger
>From what I've heard, Freddie (Hubbard) used a student model Yamaha all
>through the early sixties on all those Blue Note Albums
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Ted Pearlman - pea...@iia.org
Doubtful....I don't even think yamaha MADE trumpets in the '60s.
Hubbard certainly didn't play a student model horn then.
Lawrence Tomczyk
The box sets of Chet Baker show him playing a Martin Committee.
larryt
Jeff Beer
>In article <310vsl$s...@ankh.iia.org> pea...@iia.org (Ted Pearlman) writes:
>>through the early sixties on all those Blue Note Albums
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>Ted Pearlman - pea...@iia.org
>
>Hubbard certainly didn't play a student model horn then.
As late as Better Git In Your Soul (or something like that) on CTI
(probably 1973) they show Hubbard sitting on a couch and the horn was a
Conn Constelation.
Jeff
Joe Hellerstein
> Doubtful....I don't even think yamaha MADE trumpets in the '60s.
> Hubbard certainly didn't play a student model horn then.
Yeah, I think Keith's right. The way I heard it, Yamaha went into the
band instrument business in the early 70's, and modelled their
instruments on the leading horns of the time (including the Bach
Stradivarius trumpets). The key was that they introduced high quality
instruments at cut-rate prices, and sent American band-instrument
companies into a tail-spin. Apparently many of the old American firms
didn't survive, dropped their high-end business, or merged.
Sort of like the auto industry -- by now, the Americans have learned
their lesson and are producing better horns for less money, but at the
time it was a big deal. And a lot of the old American horns are no
longer made as a result.
Joe Hellerstein
Keith Hedger
I think you might be misinformed here Michael. Brown was killedon the
Penn. turnpike returning from an out of town gig to Phillie. He was
accompanied by Richie Powell and Powell's wife, who was driving the
car. All three were killed when the car ran off the road and
overturned. Powell's wife was known to be a notoriously bad
driver....the guess is that Brown and Powell were too tired to drive.
Jeff Beer
Joe Hellerstein <hel...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>Yeah, I think Keith's right. The way I heard it, Yamaha went into the
>band instrument business in the early 70's, and modelled their
>instruments on the leading horns of the time (including the Bach
>Stradivarius trumpets). The key was that they introduced high quality
>instruments at cut-rate prices, and sent American band-instrument
>companies into a tail-spin. Apparently many of the old American firms
>didn't survive, dropped their high-end business, or merged.
Not only that, Schilke went to the American companies to do some R&D,
since he didn't have the capital and facilities, and offered to share
what improvements he discovered. They all said no. So he went to
Yamaha. The said yes, so in the late 70s, you could buy Yamaha's at Schilke,
and they had some of Schilke's technology built in to them.
Of course, when I bought my horn at that time, I tried both, and the
Schilke still cut the Yamaha. But it was twice the price.
Jeff
Jeff Beer
>In article <Jul.25.20.32...@er5.rutgers.edu> fitz...@eden.rutgers.edu (Michael Fitzgerald) writes:
Max Roach mentions something about it, that he was on his way to get
a horn or something to do with going to a horn manufacturer, and it
forced them to travel at night.
Jeff
Joe Hellerstein
> As late as Better Git In Your Soul (or something like that) on CTI
> (probably 1973) they show Hubbard sitting on a couch and the horn was a
> Conn Constelation.
Maybe you mean KEEP YOUR SOUL TOGETHER? One of my fave cheesy CTI
albums. I like it better than RED CLAY, actually. And the couch he's
sitting on on the cover is red and shaped like a pair of lips, which
heightens the cheese factor immeasurably.
Joe Hellerstein
Joe Hellerstein
> In article <Jul.25.20.32...@er5.rutgers.edu> fitz...@eden.rutgers.edu (Michael Fitzgerald) writes:
> >Clifford Brown played a Besson, but was on his way to Elkhart, IN to check out
> >other horns when he was killed.
>
> Penn. turnpike returning from an out of town gig to Phillie. He was
> accompanied by Richie Powell and Powell's wife, who was driving the
> car. All three were killed when the car ran off the road and
> overturned. Powell's wife was known to be a notoriously bad
> driver....the guess is that Brown and Powell were too tired to drive.
Actually, you're both sort of right. According to Dan Morgenstern's
liner notes to the BROWNIE box:
"Richie Powell had recently acquired a new car. His wife,
Nancy, who was very nearsighted, had little driving experience;
nevertheless, Richie let her drive. When Max observed this, he voiced
his displeasure. The threesome was to meet Max on the Pennsylvania
Turnpike so that the group could arrive in Chicago together for an
engagement at the Blue Note. However when Max called Clifford to make
the arrangements, the trumpeter told him he had decided to pick up a
new trumpet that had been promised him by an instrument manufacturer
in Elkhart, Indiana, and that he and the Powells would make the
necessary detour and join Max in Chicago. 'If he hadn't decided to
get that horn...' said Max. He was getting some sleep in Chicago when
the call came, not from a friend, but from Joe Glaser [their booking
agent]. It had been raining; the turnpike was slick. Nancy was
driving, the car skidded out of control, hurtled over an embankment,
and turned over. All three occupants were killed instantly."
Sad stuff.
Joe Hellerstein
Jeff Beer
>Maybe you mean KEEP YOUR SOUL TOGETHER? One of my fave cheesy CTI
>albums. I like it better than RED CLAY, actually. And the couch he's
>sitting on on the cover is red and shaped like a pair of lips, which
>heightens the cheese factor immeasurably.
That's it. And the trumpet he is holding is a Conn.
I think it is missing a valve cap.
Jeff
Gary Millen
I second that emotion!
____
Gary
Ben Weiner
>I think you might be misinformed here Michael. Brown was killedon the
>Penn. turnpike returning from an out of town gig to Phillie. He was
>accompanied by Richie Powell and Powell's wife, who was driving the
>car. All three were killed when the car ran off the road and
>overturned. Powell's wife was known to be a notoriously bad
>driver....the guess is that Brown and Powell were too tired to drive.
It's pretty easy to get killed on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, too ...
speaking as a all-too-frequent driver of it. (No I haven't killed
anybody. I have seen a fair number of people who've gone off the road
tho.)
Ben
Visit Breezewood - Town of Motels!
and Roadside America!
(whoops, roadside america is really on I-78, not the turnpike)
Michael Fitzgerald
he made were at a jam session at a music store there - issued by CBS
on The Beginning and The End). The band was scheduled to play in
Chicago. He planned to stop in IN on the way.
Mike
Keith Hedger
Sorry Mike! :-)
I'm pretty sure that the Silver Flairs are circa early 1970s.
I used to lust after one when I was high school and I remember big ad
campaigns in the trades when they were announced. I believe Clark
Terry was an endorser....he was at University of Miami then...
Dale A. Smoak
No, I'm not misinformed. He was leaving Philadelphia (the last recordings
he made were at a jam session at a music store there - issued by CBS
on The Beginning and The End). The band was scheduled to play in
Chicago. He planned to stop in IN on the way.
I think the idea that those were really the last recordings has been
debunked. The tapes on that album are apparently from about ten months to
a year before. Nice marketing trick, packaged as they were, though.
-Dale
WVantrease
writes:
>I'm pretty sure that the Silver Flairs are circa early 1970s.
>I used to lust after one when I was high school...
I can corroborate that. I had the same lust about the same time, but had
to settle for a middle of the line King.
King, BTW is still selling a model called the "Silver Flair" only it's
place at the top of the line's been taken by the "Golden Flair". So, I
wouldn't be surprised if the Silver Flair model name wasn't being used in
the Swing Era too.
Bill Vantrease
Keith Hedger
>their lesson and are producing better horns for less money, but at the
>time it was a big deal. And a lot of the old American horns are no
>longer made as a result.
>
>Joe Hellerstein
Here's a question for you trumpet geeks: Has anybody SEEN a Martin
trumpet in a high end music store, new? I keep seeing ads that Miles,
and Wallace, and REd Rodney play(ed) them. I'd really like to try one
out but I have yet to see one in a store here in Beantown...
Jeff Beer
last spring to get an Eb cornet, should've tried one out to see how
there were, but didn't. It was a fun road trip though, getting out of
Chicago for a few hours.
Other than that, at a repair shop in the Chicago area, there was someone
else in there that had one.
They do exist.
Jeff
131E50000-DeibertWE(DR9546)309
In article <310vsl$s...@ankh.iia.org> Keith asks:
> Here's a question for you trumpet geeks: Has anybody SEEN a Martin
> trumpet in a high end music store, new? I keep seeing ads that Miles,
> and Wallace, and REd Rodney play(ed) them. I'd really like to try one
> out but I have yet to see one in a store here in Beantown...
> keith
A few months ago Kolacny's here in Denver had several new Martin Committee
trumpets in their display case, of course they are now made by LeBlanc and
are different in appearance from the vintage fifties Martin Committee
trumpets. All of those at Kolacny's had colored lacquer, red and black, etc.
They looked sort of like the trumpet Miles Davis holds on the cover of the
doo-bop CD. I believe they were going for $1600 retail. I picked up
two vintage Martin Committee trumpets in the last couple months. I paid
$100 for one at a music store in Castle Rock (20 miles south of Denver)
and $50 for another one at the huge outdoor flea market in Commerce City
(Denver suburb). I kept one and gave the other to my father. Both were
in good playing condition after cleaning and less than $50 took all the dents
out of both. The one I kept is a .455 bore and the one I gave away was
a .464 bore. They most certainly have a tone different from any other
horn I've played. I've heard rumors that LeBlanc in Canada is attempting
to buy up vintage Martin Committee trumpets - don't know if it is true.
Kolacny's also had a new King Silver Sonic in their display case. The
salesperson I spoke to thought it was the replacement for the Silver Flair
and King's top of the line horn. If I remember correctly it was also
going for $1600. Kolacny's also has vintage horns on display from time
to time.
A pawn shop in downtown Denver (on Broadway) called Wedgle's also has
several vintage instruments, trumpets, cornets, saxs, etc. for those who
may not have found what they are looking for at USA Horn, Wichita Band
Instrument, etc.
By the way, does anybody have an opinion on vintage Buescher trumpets?
Thanks.
Bill Deibert
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(303) 538-3522