Stan Getz goes to Hell
TimRobKev
I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
Haizen Paige
In article <19971127054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
timr...@aol.com (TimRobKev) wrote:
So you're saying Lester Young had a "whiny and self-pitying sound"?
tst...@natsys.fr
In article <19971127054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
timr...@aol.com (TimRobKev) wrote:
>
> I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
> wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
> musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
> whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
Liars, wife-beaters, alcoholics and bastards can feel tenderness, too.
- Tom Storer
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
and
Was it Zoot Sims who was supposed to have said 'Stan Getz - nice bunch of
guys' ?
Berigans
Al Cohn had the "whole bunch of nice guys" quote.
And you know you don't have to kiss'em to like like'em.
Regards, Berigan
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Tony Butka
On 27 Nov 1997 05:48:12 GMT, TimRobKev wrote:
:>I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
:>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
:>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
:>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
Tim -
Gee, Stan Getz may have been a creep, I don't know. But to dismiss his music
as a cheap rip off of Lester simply won't work. Focus, the bossa nova stuff,
I saw him a few times and the sound was great. As was Lester's, and a whole
bunch of other folks.
Seems to me that musicians are a lot like writers -- you read the book for
the words, or listen to the music for the sound. Who knows (or particularly
cares) about their personal life except for People magazine?
Tony Butka
Jack Woker
> Gee, Stan Getz may have been a creep, I don't know. But to dismiss his music
> as a cheap rip off of Lester simply won't work.
This will continue to be done by people who know how to misinterpret a
snippet of information but haven't figured out to listen yet.
jack
BOBVL
>Was it Zoot Sims who was supposed to have said 'Stan Getz - nice bunch of
>guys' ?
YES
GKornfield
This is sort of thread has been explored with Art Pepper. After much listening
I think there should be no doubt that the work of Getz and Pepper will live on
regardless of their personal life.
While knowing about their personal tribulations places their work in a certain
light, nevertheless their work stands on its own.
For example Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds is a wonderful song. While knowing of
John Lennon's LSD experiences helps to understand "Lucy" the song still stands
on its own.
Also Charlie Parker had negative personality traits as do many artists. But
Bird still lives.
Simon Weil
Timrobkev wrote:
>
>I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
>
trio featuring Stan Getz", Helen Keane gives this anecdote about Stan's
character:
"Since Bill and Stan hadn't worked together very often, they called a rehearsal
on the day of the performance in Laren [Holland]. They rehearsed for about
three hours. The format for the evening was that the [Bill Evans] trio would
perform for about 40 minutes, then Stan would join the group as Bill's special
guest. Stan Getz was a very unpredictable guy and could be a very bad boy.
After the trio finished their set, Stan was announced. As he entered the stage,
he called a tune they hadn't rehearsed. I was watching the performance on a
television monitor in the audio truck and saw the angry expression on Bill's
face....
Stan may have had the demon in him from time to time, but he also had the
ability to be charming. You would wring his neck one minute, and the next
minute you thought he was wonderful. At the later performance in Belgium, after
the group played "The Peacocks", Stan warmly wished Bill a happy birthday and
played an inpromptu "Happy Birthday" together with a few bars of "I'll be
Loving You Always" as a segue into "You and the Night and the Music." There is
obviously no way of proving it, but knowing Stan as I did, I believe that his
wishing Bill a happy birthday in Belgium was his way of apologizing for what
happened in Holland. I think Bill was very touched by Stan's birthday wish
before an audience of seven thousand people."
So there would appear to have been some very real tenderness in Stan. Odd that
in all your extensive reading - "all the biographies of Getz " - you missed
it.
Simon Weil
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <19971127054...@ladder01.news.aol.com> timr...@aol.com (TimRobKev) writes:
>I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
I would agree that Getz plays with a slightly querulous tone, but
I don't hear that at all in Lester. In that particular aspect of
tone, I think Getz has more in common with Miles than anyone else.
BOBVL
>FROM BOBVL:
You can hear this congratulatory wish from Sta to Bill on Jazz Door 1208 BUT
BEAUTIFUL
BOBVL
From: simo...@aol.com (Simon Weil)
>Date: Fri, Nov 28, 1997 10:57 EST
>Message-id: <19971128155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
>Timrobkev wrote:
>>
>>I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
>>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
>>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
>>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
>>
FROM
Lcfpsf
At the latter portion of Lester Young's life he heard Stan Getz play at a club
in Europe. Afterwards he said to Stan "you're the singer". Getz considered that
perhaps the best compliment he ever received.
John Coltrane is reported to have said " We would all play like Stan Getz, if
we could."
Peter Friedman
LGEvilEye
>> that whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young. <<
And...if you're gonna start locking up people that were influenced by Pres it's
gonna be a mighty crowded cell.
LG
tst...@compuserve.com
In article <19971128155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
simo...@aol.com (Simon Weil) wrote:
>
> Timrobkev wrote:
> >
> >I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
> >wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
> >whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
> >
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think ol' Timrobkev was being sarcastic... I
believe he was scorning the biographies for ignoring the tenderness of
which the ballads are evidence. I think if he had concluded his message
with an unbelieving "Yeah, right!" it would have made his attitude more
clear. Then again, I could be wrong. Only Timrobkev himself can elucidate
the mysteries of his prose.
MKlemanbop
Thanks, Peter.
Simon Weil
Tom Storer wrote:
> simo...@aol.com (Simon Weil) wrote:
>>
>> Timrobkev wrote:
>> >
>> >I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
>> >wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his
>fellow
>> >musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as
>that
>> >whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
>> >
>> You sound convinced already, but [SNIP]
>
>Maybe I'm wrong, but I think ol' Timrobkev was being sarcastic... I
>believe he was scorning the biographies for ignoring the tenderness of
>which the ballads are evidence. I think if he had concluded his message
>with an unbelieving "Yeah, right!" it would have made his attitude more
>clear. Then again, I could be wrong. Only Timrobkev himself can elucidate
>the mysteries of his prose.
>
>- Tom Storer
I thought your thing on Wynton Marsalis's lyrics (from a few months ago) was on
the mark - so maybe you're right about this as well. It makes sense...Ah those
inscrutable mysteries.
Simon Weil
Michel
TimRobKev wrote:
>
> I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
> wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
> musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
> whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
away from jazz!!! ;)
John Martin
I think it should also be pointed out that drugs and alcohol probably
contributed greatly to his abusive behavior and that his drug abuse had a
lot to do with his inability or fear in expressing himself in social
situations.
-JC Martin
John Martin
How one conducts his personal affairs does not necessarily affect how one
expresses himself through aesthetics or art. And how one acts in life
isn't always a measure of what a person is striving to be. For many
artists it is easier to communicate through art than it is for them to
communicate in social situations. That doesn't excuse Getz's behavior but
it certainly does not demean his art.
JC Martin
subs...@earthlink.net
TimRobKev <timr...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971127054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Chuck Nessa
We can all discuss this with Stan at a later date.
Chuck
>
Haizen Paige
In article <3481837C...@earthlink.net>, Chuck Nessa
<cne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> We can all discuss this with Stan at a later date.
>
> Chuck
A classic!
gue...@hslc.org
Michel wrote:
>
> TimRobKev wrote:
> >
> > I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
> > wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his fellow
> > musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as that
> > whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
What a foolish thing to say!
Sorry old man, nothing personal but I doubt there is anything phony in
the emotion he took to the music. It was probalby real, if confused,
regret for the other half of his life that he was not so proud of.
It never struck me as bathos, although as analytical and cold as jazz
_can_ sound these days, I can see how it might sound that way in
comparisson.
John Barr
Larry Lewicki
I think there is a basic misconception that many of us fall into -
we'd like to believe that if someone plays "pretty sounds" on an
instrument or puts together pleasing images in the visual arts this
automatically translates into them being a gentle or caring person.
I actually believe the behaviors are different. Stan playing a "moving"
version of Polkadots and Moonbeams only means that he has good aesthetic
judgement, harmonic ear and ability to create meaningful motific relations
on the fly in his improvisation. The listener can't really correlate these
abilities with the ability to create and maintain durable human relationships
anymore than Cezzane's ability to balance colors related to his ability to
balance his own life.
I would be more likely to draw a correlation between a good accompaniest
(for example Kenny Barron or Herbie Hancock or - in his best moments
Keith Jarrett backing Gary Peacock) and a good conversationalist - than
I would draw the same correlation for a good soloist. Comping well means
supporting and adapting to the directions of others while still maintaining
a personality. One of my favorite quotes related to Miles talking to
Keith Jarrett after Jarrett had won an McArthur genius award. Miles
said something like "So, what's it feel to be a genius?". Jarrett replied
"Oh, about the same as before."
It's a common perception that pretty sounds = pretty outlook. I think
pretty sounds = pretty sounds and that is it.
Larry
In article <01bcfd4f$6d710b60$4ef3d9cf@researcher-1>, "John Martin" <sobs...@earthlink.net> writes:
<:>How one conducts his personal affairs does not necessarily affect how one
<:>expresses himself through aesthetics or art. And how one acts in life
<:>isn't always a measure of what a person is striving to be. For many
<:>artists it is easier to communicate through art than it is for them to
<:>communicate in social situations. That doesn't excuse Getz's behavior but
<:>it certainly does not demean his art.
<:>
<:>JC Martin
<:>subs...@earthlink.net
<:>
<:>
<:>TimRobKev <timr...@aol.com> wrote in article
<:><19971127054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
<:>> I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
<:>> wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his
<:>fellow
<:>> musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as
<:>that
<:>> whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
<:>>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Larry Lewicki | National Semiconductor |Opinions are mine and in *NO* |
*l...@galaxy.nsc.com | Santa Clara, CA |way represent National Semi. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steve Voce
>We can all discuss this with Stan at a later date.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>>
>
>
>
Stan felt, I think that probably there's no forum to come. So why don't
we tiny people just enjoy the music of a great musician? Stan never dug
into our private lives. And what he gave me beats the hell out of money.
--
Steve Voce
Simon Weil
This one is going to get printed out and stuck on my wall.
Simon Weil
JFR
In <19971128152...@ladder01.news.aol.com> gkorn...@aol.com
Yes, and as is obvious from the popularity of these "negative personal
thing" postings, a controversial and even abusive personality generates
interest and sells. Pretty sad. Looks like we are all victims to that
draw here....... Don't even mention O.J.......or Wynton......
John R.
JFR
In <19971128155...@ladder02.news.aol.com> simo...@aol.com
(Simon Weil) writes:
>Timrobkev wrote:
>>
>>I've noticed that all the biographies of Getz treat him as a lying,
>>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his
fellow
>>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony
as that
>>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
>>
More flame bait from the AOL HOLE. Figures. GRP should do their
website through AOL.
Simon Weil
What can you say to that? The guy abuses he twice - Out of nowhere. I can't
say I feel I deserve this. In particular, I get accused of posting flame-bait -
not something that rings any bells with me.
I don't know why he does this, but I can say that the example he chooses was
actually written by someone else (Timrobkev).
I would ask for an apology, but with that sort of antagonism, what's the point?
Simon Weil
Evan Sarzin
Getz has a reputation of being a schmuck. I wouldn't know. Woody Allen,
ditto. I can't stop enjoying their artfulness for that reason. But if it
interferes with your pleasure, then so be it.
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu wrote in message <65l8ss$s...@news.jhu.edu>...
>>wife-beating alcoholic who took great pleasure in mistreating all his
fellow
>>musicians. I guess all those tender ballads he played were as phony as
that
>>whiny and self-pitying sound that he stole from Lester Young.
>
Chuck Nessa
José Luís Bernardo
Hi Pals,
If the discussion his about Stan Getz behaviour to musicians let me say that
I read that he was not very nice but also read a statement by Kenny Burrell
saying he was nice to him and his wife. So perhaps as Steve says let's just
listen to the beautiful music
Raul
Chuck Nessa wrote in message <348F514D...@earthlink.net>...