Elvin's Death Ignored By The "Music" Media
Jay Epstein
...................................
By George Varga
UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
May 30, 2004
A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
"I'm really embarrassed for this nation, and for MTV and VH1 and
Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge
this most important musician when he passed," said Santana, whose 1999
album, "Supernatural," won nine Grammys and has sold more than 25
million copies. "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
embarrassed to live in this country." The mustachioed guitarist and
bandleader first heard Jones in 1965 on the John Coltrane Quartet's
epic album "A Love Supreme," about a year after the teenaged Santana
moved to San Francisco from Tijuana and became an American
citizen. He was immediately struck by the force of the quartet's music
and the impact of Jones' polyrhythmic drumming.
"When that intro comes in on 'A Love Supreme' it's like the gates of
heaven opening," Santana, 56, said. "In fact, when I die, if I don't
hear 'A Love Supreme,' I'll turn back; I'll know I'm in the wrong
place. For me, Elvin was Número Uno, forever, for all ages, for all
existence. I miss him terribly; I've been playing his music nonstop
since he died, especially 'Agenda' (from Jones' 1969 'Poly-Currents')
with Joe Farrell (on sax). He was a supreme drummer who was doing
things that were totally different than anyone else. "When I hear
Elvin's music I hear the pyramids, I hear African and pre-Columbian
music, and I hear the future. Elvin is the beat of life itself, and
his music transcends 'clever' or 'cute' or any superlatives. When he
and Coltrane played, and everyone else in the quartet dropped out,
that's what Jimi Hendrix would play if he was still alive. That's what
John McLaughlin wants to play, and he's alive, because there is
nothing more pure or vibrant than Coltrane and Elvin."
It is because he holds Jones in such high esteem that Santana was
angry at the absence of media tributes to the masterful drummer, who
was 76 when he died and kept performing until just weeks before his
death. The reason for the slight, Santana believes, is a matter of
racial and cultural prejudice. "When Miles (Davis) died (in 1991), for
four hours in France they stopped everything on TV and radio, all the
regular programming, and just showed Miles for four hours, all through
France," Santana recalled. "Here in the U.S., it's embarrassing (how
jazz is treated). People should be ashamed of themselves."MTV and VH1
are virtually jazz-free, and the music has historically been held in
much higher esteem abroad than here, in its homeland. But Santana
believes exceptions should be made for musicians as notable as Jones,
who Pearl Jam drummer Matt Cameron hailed as "a major force to be
reckoned with" who could "wow the pants off a jazz fan or non-jazz
fan" alike. "If I would've been running MTV, I would've stopped all
the corny stuff they show and shown one of Elvin's (drum) solos.
Because he represents the highest level of creativity, like Duke
Ellington," Santana said. "America is such an ignorant country. I
understand that I'm hard on America, but if you look at all the
(alarming) things on CNN, (you'll see) we need to
grow up quickly. We need to crystallize our existence because we place
economic values over spiritual ones.
"I'm hurt. And if I was a little hard or cruel with MTV and VH1, they
deserve it. They need to stop showing what they are showing, and show
real musicians. Why do they keep showing such stupidity? MTV needs to
reassess its priorities."
Tony Kujawa
"Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
> Thank you Elvin, for "changing my molecular stucture". - Jay
> ...................................
> By George Varga
> UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
> The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
> May 30, 2004
> A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
> potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
> the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
> structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
> angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
> heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
> Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
> frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
>
> "I'm really embarrassed for this nation, and for MTV and VH1 and
> Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge
> this most important musician when he passed," said Santana, whose 1999
> album, "Supernatural," won nine Grammys and has sold more than 25
> million copies. "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
> corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
> embarrassed to live in this country."
Corny-ass white people?? LOL!! I think old Santana has the channel the
channel on CMT instead of MTV where you'll see plenty of corny-assed blacks,
hispanics, asians, etc! The racist statement is a bit much IMHO. WTF does
he have to bring that BS into everything that is wrong? It's not racist,
it's just the plain old F-ing ignorance of the whole music biz.
Randal Walker
frame it.
"Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
jmt
In a way, I'm glad that the Press largely ignored Elvin's
passing. Were they to have given him his due, it would have
demonstrated that they were capable of reason/thought/strategic
accountability,(if only for this Moment). As it is, they've simply
simply reinforced my deliberate rejection of anything "They" have to say.
jmt
Al Stevens
"Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
> Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> Jones' death elicited scant media coverage.
Get used to it, Carlos. It isn't a racist thing. And it's not about jazz vs
other art forms. It's all about what's news as determined by the media.
For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice on
back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media. John
Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
coverage.
Lennon's contribution to popular music was substantial, but it pales in
comparison to that of Rodgers, whose compositions date back to the 1920s.
His musicals won 34 Tony Awards, 15 Academy Awards, and two Pulitzer Prizes.
Rodgers' indirect contribution to jazz is substantial, too. Leafing through
a fake book I find: Dancing on the Ceiling, Have You Met Miss Jones, I Could
Write a Book, It Might As Well Be Spring, Little Girl Blue, My Funny
Valentine, My Romance, Spring Is Here, Sunday, This Can't Be Love, Thou
Swell, Where Or When, You Took Advantage Of Me, to name a few.
But Rodgers was 77, died of natural causes, and not a rock icon.
Consequently, his death was not newsworthy.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
JaKe
I agree, I think it's more of an ignorance of jazz itself.
--
JaKe, Seattle
"People never understood, that the drum is a musical instrument."
Elvin Jones
-MIKE-
play the race card in this is irresponsible and very disrespectful
to those who have actually had to endure racial discrimination,
including Elvin.
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
jmt
You need to reread what youse just wrote. You're saying that
Elvin endured racial discrimination, but that Santana is irresponsible
for saying so?
jmt
-MIKE-
one sentence. Let me break it down... :-)
>> I respect and admire Carlos for his contribution to music, but to
>> play the race card in this is irresponsible[.]
Stand alone statement.
>> very disrespectful to those who have actually had to endure racial
>> discrimination, including Elvin.
Should've written: It's a slap in the face to people who have
actually been racially discriminated against, including Elvin, whom
I'm certain endured plenty on racism during his long life.
Better? :-)
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
> Dear Mikhail;
> You need to reread what youse just wrote. You're saying that
> Elvin endured racial discrimination, but that Santana is irresponsible
> for saying so?
> jmt
>
>
still...@webtv.net
discrimination > Carlos grew up in Tijuana. I don't think there was a
parade for him when he arrived in San Francisco. Maybe he has a point,
maybe the press could have held off coverage of the Osbournes for a few
hours.
jmt
I agree that the lack of Press was not due to racism, btw. It
doesn't surprise me.
jmt
Matt
psychotic gunman. That will make the headlines rock star or not. I think
the point you make is a good one, but the comparison is poor. Kurt Cobain
on the other hand...
Matt Porter
"Al Stevens" <nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:M7qvc.57587$0X2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Jim
"-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrums.com> wrote in message
news:2i6s6pF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Not really. I just shouldn't have tried to express what I did in
> one sentence. Let me break it down... :-)
>
> >> I respect and admire Carlos for his contribution to music, but to
> >> play the race card in this is irresponsible[.]
> Stand alone statement.
>
>
> >> very disrespectful to those who have actually had to endure racial
> >> discrimination, including Elvin.
> Should've written: It's a slap in the face to people who have
> actually been racially discriminated against, including Elvin, whom
> I'm certain endured plenty on racism during his long life.
>
> Better? :-)
While your basic premise is true this part is over the top. You don't think
Carlos has had to deal with racism his entire life?
-MIKE-
> While your basic premise is true this part is over the top. You don't
> think Carlos has had to deal with racism his entire life?
>
From his own statement, you'd think he hadn't. I would think
someone who's suffered from real racism, wouldn't throw the term
around in such a loose and unwarranted manner.
-MIKE-
Joseph Scott
> UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
> The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
> May 30, 2004
> A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
> potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
> the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
> structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
> angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
> heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
> Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
> frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
>
> "I'm really embarrassed for this nation, and for MTV and VH1 and
> Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge
> this most important musician when he passed," said Santana, whose 1999
> album, "Supernatural," won nine Grammys and has sold more than 25
> million copies. "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
> corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
> embarrassed to live in this country."
?? Ozzy Osbourne and Carlos Santana both aren't from the U.S., both
have chosen to live in the U.S., both aren't "black," and both have
chosen to concentrate on playing non-corny music that to a large
extent goes back to U.S. "black" music. (Heavy metal isn't "corny"
music -- as the sort of pop music that, say, the Grammys are
interested in goes -- and if Carlos has to pretend it is to make his
anti-"white"-musicians point then he has another think coming.)
[...]
The reason for the slight, Santana believes, is a matter of
> racial and cultural prejudice. "When Miles (Davis) died (in 1991), for
> four hours in France they stopped everything on TV and radio, all the
> regular programming, and just showed Miles for four hours, all through
> France," Santana recalled. "Here in the U.S., it's embarrassing (how
> jazz is treated). People should be ashamed of themselves."MTV and VH1
> are virtually jazz-free, and the music has historically been held in
> much higher esteem abroad than here, in its homeland. But Santana
> believes exceptions should be made for musicians as notable as Jones,
> who Pearl Jam drummer Matt Cameron hailed as "a major force to be
> reckoned with" who could "wow the pants off a jazz fan or non-jazz
> fan" alike. "If I would've been running MTV, I would've stopped all
> the corny stuff they show and shown one of Elvin's (drum) solos.
> Because he represents the highest level of creativity, like Duke
> Ellington," Santana said. "America is such an ignorant country. I
> understand that I'm hard on America, but if you look at all the
> (alarming) things on CNN, (you'll see) we need to
> grow up quickly. We need to crystallize our existence because we place
> economic values over spiritual ones.
>
> "I'm hurt. And if I was a little hard or cruel with MTV and VH1, they
> deserve it. They need to stop showing what they are showing, and show
> real musicians. Why do they keep showing such stupidity? MTV needs to
> reassess its priorities."
It's old news that Europeans pay U.S. jazz more respect than Americans
do. Apparently Carlos wants to get on the same bandwagon as Wynton and
company about that. Middle-aged and old men trying to tell children
what they should really like listening to -- seems somewhat
self-involved and pointless to me. Think of all the acoustic blues
musicians, for instance, whose parents thought they ought to be
playing something else "better" such as gospel or ragtime or
classical. I'm glad they didn't listen, or we might not have Carlos
Santana.
The idea of MTV currently being racist against "blacks" is laughable.
They're _ageist_ against old "blacks" and old "whites" and old
everyone else, including Elvin. That's their demographic. I haven't
looked at VH1 at a long time but I think they have no interest in real
jazz, which is their business. (If VH1 make a big deal of it when
Brubeck passes, then Carlos will be proven right about the racism
issue, but I doubt they will.) It's mostly about age groups.
Carlos is the same guy who's said that everything in American music
except polkas and waltzes comes from pre-Columbian and African music.
Too many broad strokes with that guy it seems.
Joseph Scott
Sam Savoca
> "Jim" <ger...@orbitel.com> wrote:
>
> > While your basic premise is true this part is over the top. You don't
> > think Carlos has had to deal with racism his entire life?
> >
>
> From his own statement, you'd think he hadn't. I would think
> someone who's suffered from real racism, wouldn't throw the term
> around in such a loose and unwarranted manner.
There are some people that just throw out that card to draw attention to an
injustice. I think that's the case here. He wanted to get maximum news
exposure for the issue.
Sam S.
sum1
> "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
> corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
> embarrassed to live in this country."
Does this mean Carlos will soon be moving back to Mexico?
GT
news:2i71lkF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> There are some people that just throw out that card to draw attention to
an
> injustice. I think that's the case here. He wanted to get maximum news
> exposure for the issue.
Well that's a poor way of doing it. "Crying wolf" starts to fall on deaf
ears after awhile.
Besides, what does Santana expect from MTV or VH1, anyway? They are
corporate media tools that pander to the lowest common denominator.
Good grief. Get real, Carlos....
Robert Schuh
Great stuff, but the problem is that the all might buck is what drives the
media. What really matters is that Elvin will really never die and will be
in our hearts and bodies forever.
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
Robert Schuh
Al,
I can see that you are a pathetic old fuck. Playing down John Lennon's
contributions is PATHETIC. Shit man, it is 2004 and you are playing fucking
Dixieland. Motherfucker I don't get why so many people want to keep
regurgitating music that should have died YEARS ago. I'll bet you say horrible
things about what Coltrane was doing 40 years ago too. Wake the fuck up man.
BTW, I used to play in a Dixieland band that actually had real musicians, The
Side Street Strutters. I remember going to that PATHETIC Sacramento Festival and
seeing a million close minded fat old fucks like you playing "Ain't She Sweet"
and all the crap all day. I'll bet you never even listened to Elvin.
Robert Schuh
Matt,
This Al fuck is just a typical old white asshole who keeps playing LONG dead
music.
Anthony Giampa
--
--
Anthony Giampa; Impe...@cox.net
In the year 2000: "...The American bald eagle will be taken off the
protective species list,
not because it's no longer endangered, but because it is a douchebag." --
David Duchovney
"Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
Anthony Giampa
that seemingly, no one cared. But then again Elvin was far from a mainstream
musician. Jazz is way too unappreciated in modern America. Jazz will
probably never 'come back'.
It's kinda like when an obscure scientist or someone dies. Almost no one
hears about it, so no one cares.
--
--
Anthony Giampa; Impe...@cox.net
In the year 2000: "...The American bald eagle will be taken off the
protective species list,
not because it's no longer endangered, but because it is a douchebag." --
David Duchovney
"Anthony Giampa" <Impe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tHtvc.12867$aM1.2595@fed1read02...
Shawn Martin
wrote:
>Matt,
>This Al fuck is just a typical old white asshole who keeps playing LONG dead
>music.
As opposed to Roberta, a white asshole who worships a musician who's
been dead for almost 40 years.
Shawn Martin
http://www.drummerman.net
Life is short. Play for the music. Wear your heart on your sleeve.
Shawn Martin
wrote:
>Al,
>I can see that you are a pathetic old fuck. Playing down John Lennon's
>contributions is PATHETIC. Shit man, it is 2004 and you are playing fucking
>Dixieland.
Gee Rob. You seem to be proud of Dixieland when you use it to pad
your playing experience on Ravenscroft's website. You put the hyp in
hypocrit.
>otherfucker I don't get why so many people want to keep
>regurgitating music that should have died YEARS ago.
Or a sax player who's been dead for 37?
> I'll bet you say horrible
>things about what Coltrane was doing 40 years ago too. Wake the fuck up man.
>BTW, I used to play in a Dixieland band that actually had real musicians, The
>Side Street Strutters. I remember going to that PATHETIC Sacramento Festival and
>seeing a million close minded fat old fucks like you playing "Ain't She Sweet"
>and all the crap all day. I'll bet you never even listened to Elvin.
Now waitaminute Roberta. Were you guys playing Avant-Garde dixieland?
Did you invent a new form of Dixie that nobody else has heard of?
Shawn Martin
>Dear Mikhail;
> You need to reread what youse just wrote. You're saying that
>Elvin endured racial discrimination, but that Santana is irresponsible
>for saying so?
> jmt
I agree with Carlos to an extent but I don't think they're ignoring
Elvin's death because he was black. They're ignoring him because
they've always ignored true Jazz players upon their death (and during
their life as well).. Now if Kenny G was shot dead in a drug deal
gone bad, it'd make the front page.
mfell211...@yahoo.com
wrote:
This cactus humper is lucky he makes ten dollars a night playing let
alone creating something original musically. He doesn't play his hat
on 2 and 4 so he thinks he is innovative as a drummer. Geez they were
playing no hi hats on the 2 and 4 in the early 1900s fer cryin out
loud. :-)
Regards
Mike
Mike C.
all be eating up the media coverage here at rmmb.
:-)
--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
"As much as I love music, I never really thought it was my life. I thought
it was the vehicle I used to express my life" - Herbie Mann
"Shawn Martin" <n...@nonona.net> wrote in message
news:mersb01i4ba0dtfae...@4ax.com...
Rev. Poindexter
<r...@robschuh.com> wrote:
> Al,
> I can see that you are a pathetic old fuck. Playing down John Lennon's
> contributions is PATHETIC. Shit man, it is 2004 and you are playing fucking
> Dixieland. Motherfucker I don't get why so many people want to keep
> regurgitating music that should have died YEARS ago. I'll bet you say horrible
> things about what Coltrane was doing 40 years ago too. Wake the fuck up man.
> BTW, I used to play in a Dixieland band that actually had real musicians, The
> Side Street Strutters. I remember going to that PATHETIC Sacramento Festival
> and
> seeing a million close minded fat old fucks like you playing "Ain't She Sweet"
> and all the crap all day. I'll bet you never even listened to Elvin.
That's our Rob. Anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with him is a
tired old fuck. Seig heil.
There are a million tunes and a million styles and billions of people
out there want to hear them. And contrary to popular belief, ROB, it
isn't about you - it's about THEM and what THEY WANT. Do you berate
your audiences if they don't happen to notice what a heavy motherfucker
you are? I can only guess at your professionalism when on the gig. I
can't imagine a contractor who would take a chance booking someone who
acts like you do here. I sure as hell wouldn't.
BTW, that "pathetic Sacramento festival" is a DIXIELAND FESTIVAL.
That's what they come to hear. What the hell were you doing there? Were
you expecting the gig to be freeform dixie or experimental dixie? Why
take the gig if it's so obviously beneath a musician of your stature?
I appreciate your musicial ability, really I do. It's sad that talent
like yours is wasted on a sociopath.
-MIKE-
My only beef is with the race card. I agree with everything else he
said, but he shot himself in the foot. I'm the biggest advocate for
racial reconciliation. My ONLY point in all of this, is that the
lack of coverage of Elvin's death had nothing to do with racism. I
never implied Carlos didn't know what racism is, nor that he was
never discriminated against.
He should be ashamed of playing the card in an issue that, on its
own, by the truth, had solid merit. For him to just toss racism in
there, without the existence of even a hint of substance for the
accusation, undermines his own credibility in the matter and hurts
any cause he might've had to bring awareness of the legends of the
jazz arts to a younger generation.
sum1
> Actually, I think if Kenny G. was shot dead in a drug deal, we'd probably
> all be eating up the media coverage here at rmmb.
>
> :-)
And that's the sad truth about a group full of lonely, frustrated, and
jealous musicians who can only dream of aspiring to a fraction of the
G-man's success.
GT
news:544b2430.04060...@posting.google.com...
>
> And that's the sad truth about a group full of lonely, frustrated, and
> jealous musicians who can only dream of aspiring to a fraction of the
> G-man's success.
And that's the sad truth about a lonely, frustrated little Japanese dweeb
who can only dream of aspiring to a tiny fraction of the knowledge that
takes place around here.
Robert Schuh
Man,
You don't have a motherfucking clue. The band I played in started when I was at
Arizona State. We won the National Collegiate Championship for Dixieland bands in
1984 that was sponsored by Southern Comfort. That band BURNED. They put us on tour
where we did the March of Dimes Telethon, Jerry Lewis' Telethon, The today Show,
Merv Griffin and then we were hired at Disneyland in 85. I quit in 86 because I got
tired of the music, so don't make up bullshit. EVERY comment you have made about me
lately has been the same tired bullshit like Bleu Balls, Lardo and the other trolls.
>
> I appreciate your musicial ability, really I do. It's sad that talent
> like yours is wasted on a sociopath.
You don't have a clue what I am talking about. I am not saying things have to be
experimental of free. I am saying it is 2004. That is why I am bothered by Jazz
musicians FAR more than commercial musicians. When you listen to rock, pop, country
etc. on the radio, the MAJORITY of it is new. Of course there are oldies stations,
but at least the MAJORITY of that music is moving forward. In Jazz, you can still
play standards and NOT make them sound like 1950, dig? Even you have to admit that
this guy is the typical old white fuck by down playing Lennon and McCartney. Those 2
have as many, if not more eventual "standards" than ANY of the old time writers.
There is an asshole who went to ASU at the same time as I did who has a big band now
by the name of Eric Felton. This guy is in his late 30s and was quoted in a magazine
as saying that there have been no good melodies written since the 40s. What a
complete fucking cum stain. I just want people to wake the fuck up to it being 2004
and not 1940 or 50. Shit, 99% of these assholes still think that what Trane was
doing in the 60s was "out." You also completely ruined ANY attempt at a cogent
argument by calling me a sociopath. How the fuck is my wanting to further my music
and art Sociopathic? Why don't you just accept the fact that you have ZERO idea what
it is like to take a path in life that is VERY difficult? I expect more of myself
and others because I think music, like everything else, needs to grow. I am sorry,
but I don't see growth in old fuckers sitting around talking shit about "the good
old days" and belittling new music. This is nothing new. Shit, Louie Armstrong, one
of THE most innovative players of ALL time for his era, ended up being a fucking cum
stain by saying what Bird, Max Roach and Diz were doing with Bebop was shit. The
other thing I don't get is it seems that every time you read what I have to say you
start up with your trolling. Why fucking read it then? If you know you are not going
to like it, don't fucking read it. I keep about 20 people here kill filed because I
know it is not worth my time. Man, think about it this way, the time you save not
reading what I have to say you could spend jerking off to your Sonor catalogues! :-)
still...@webtv.net
enough time trying to play guitar and spent enough time listening to
Carlos that if he said the moon was made of green cheese I would have to
consider it. I don't get cable tv, it would be interesting to see how
much coverage Elvins death got on the Black Entertaiment Network (it was
there when I had cable, I don't know if it is still there). < race card>
Brings to mind when the boxer Mike Tyson was tried for rape. Sad as that
whole thing was, I was glad when I found out the victim was black, just
so the race card wouldn't be brought up. Then as the trial proceeded the
Tyson camp was crying racism. I know lawyers try to use anything they
can, and I am not a highly educated person, but everyone has common
sense and that just didn't then and doesn't now make any sense at all.
Steve Carras
> Well, damn straight except the race thing. =) I actually was pretty suprised
> that seemingly, no one cared. But then again Elvin was far from a mainstream
> musician. Jazz is way too unappreciated in modern America. Jazz will
> probably never 'come back'.
>
> It's kinda like when an obscure scientist or someone dies. Almost no one
> hears about it, so no one cares.
>
I didn't expect any significant press. BTW Santana will ALWAYS rank
VERY high with me but sorry, Carlos, here you came off as a kind of
hypocrite (and that is putting it QUITE midly)--working w/Michelle
Branch..(great track though,GAME OF LOVBE)
It's just like o'er the weekend on D Day anniversay (still actually
coming) no one seemed to recall Bing Crosby (even though we ARE
talking World War II! Yet Bing in part due to his ladback,
non-cigarette smoking, "non-rebel" type----imagine Bing and Elvin
Jones BOTH linked by contemporary neglect!! Of course Bing is the
greatest interpreter of pop standards of ALL time, Sinatra be damned
(then again HE didn't get current press either!*), and thus Bing was
THE biggerst star of his time!)
(During WWII the
Kenny G" types like Artie Shaw in FRENESI and BEGIN THE BEGUINE-groovy
songs, Glenn Miller and Guy Lombardo**, were THE thing).
*Of course Sinatra PEAKED AFTER WOrld War 2...
**I always speculated as a HUGE Lombardo fan who has a few books on
him (including his 1975 autobiog,the other is his friend Booton
Herndon's 1964 THE SWEETEST MUSIC THIS SIDE OF HEAVEN) that in
addition to his tradionally predatying the swing era and his being a
traditionally transplanted middle American Canadadian explaining his
ultra-"square/Carpenters"-type style (after all, the swing era, when
Lombardo came from Canada as one of its longest lived and first tstars
to make it internationally and in the US, in tghe 20s was the still in
the fuiture) but also due to Lombardo being too "cheap" when the swing
era DID arrive to hire more musicians. Of course he'd hit the forumala
with the "KEnny G/Eddie Duchin" style that worked for Glenn Miller,
Perry Como et al.
kurt
> Thank you Elvin, for "changing my molecular stucture". - Jay
> ...................................
> By George Varga
> UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
> The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
> May 30, 2004
> A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
> potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
> the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
> structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
> angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
> heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
> Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
> frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
If he had only worn flannel and been from Seattle.
Really the only thing that we as jazz fans can do is expose our friends
to the music we love. At some point somewhere, one of our friends will
hear something that clicks and brings aural satisfaction. My cousin-in-law's
husband just finished medical school. He will now be facing a daily commute
of about 3 hours round trip. Yeah, I am against burning CDs for friends
when they should buy it themselves, but guess what he is getting for a
graduation gift, and yes, there will be some Elvin Jones in there.
Kurt
Al Stevens
"Robert Schuh" <r...@robschuh.com> wrote in message
news:40BE6727...@robschuh.com...
> This Al fuck is just a typical old white asshole who keeps playing LONG
dead
> music.
Have we met? :-) Actually, we probably have many acquaintances in common. I
worked briefly for the rat, too, and I did several Sacramento festivals when
I was with Bill Allred's eight piece swing band. "Side Street Strutters"
rings a bell, but I can't remember for sure. I worked with Ira Sullivan on a
few club dates, and I read on the net that you did, too.
Dixieland is only one kind of music I play. Dixieland piano players are hard
to find because of the repertoire and style, so it gets me a lot of work.
And it is fun to play. I play styles from ragtime (not so much any more) and
stride through post-bebop kind of ending with trying (unsuccessfully, I
fear) to capture what Bill Evans had to say. I'm not interested in going
beyond that in my playing. The tunes on my website are old because they have
to be old (pre-1923) to be in the public domain and legal to post publicly.
But just because they are old doesn't mean they are dead. And it doesn't
mean that's all I play. Or listen to.
I do listen to Elvin. I first got into Trane because of McCoy Tyner. I
bought "Ballads" back in the 60s because Tyner was on it and for the tunes
and was blown away by Coltrane. Who'd believe "Too Young To Go Steady," for
chrissake. A couple years later I got "A Love Supreme," which profoundly
changed my life. That's where I realized what Elvin was doing. It took a
while for me to get inside it, but one night everything just started making
sense. Sue me for taking so long, I was about 25 at the time. I still listen
to ALS at least once every couple of months. I don't try to play like that,
but I listen. I don't try to play Rachmaninoff, either, but I listen.
I didn't mean to disrespect Lennon's contributions, only to point out with
my comparison that the media cover what they think is newsworthy, not what
is necessarily important from an historical or musical perspective, and that
their agenda is commercial, not racist as Santana suggests. I apologize if
my post seemed disrespectful.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Al Stevens
"Matt" <porterd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ovKdneA9_IE...@giganews.com...
> In all fairness (and I do take your point), Lennon was assassinated by a
> psychotic gunman. That will make the headlines rock star or not. I think
> the point you make is a good one, but the comparison is poor. Kurt Cobain
> on the other hand...
>
> Matt Porter
Matt, how much different do you think the coverage would have been if
someone had shot Richard Rodgers and John Lennon had kacked from a heart
attack? The getting shot part would have gotten Rodgers some extra
attention, but Elvis didn't get shot, those Gibb dudes didn't get shot,
Janis Joplin didn't get shot, and so on.
It has to do with popular culture and what's news, not music.
Al
Al Stevens
> There is an asshole who went to ASU at the same time as I did who has a
big band now
> by the name of Eric Felton. This guy is in his late 30s and was quoted in
a magazine
> as saying that there have been no good melodies written since the 40s.
I imagine he was locked into some timeline playing tunes that fit the format
of his big band, which only means that he limited himself to that format and
could not see outside the envelope. Or he was simply pandering to some
demographic--whomever he perceived his audience to be--in which case one
would simply dismiss his comments as being self-serving.
Other big bandleaders did not limit themselves that way. I have an old LP
from the mid-sixties called "Pop Goes the Basie." Basie's band played hit
tunes from the 50s and 60s and made them swing.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Joseph Scott
biggest star in the world, and currently the media don't care much
about him, because young people don't care much about him. And ditto
for Elvin.
Joseph Scott
Joseph Scott
really not a Kenny G. type, honest. There were Kenny G. types then,
such as Jan Garber, and Artie wasn't one of them. He had top jazz
musicians such as Leo Watson, Roy Eldridge, and Dodo Marmarosa in his
bands, and he was a good jazz soloist himself.
Peace,
Joseph Scott
cdRoots
May 19, 2004, Wednesday - NY Times obit
2 separate AP reports run in at least 10 major papers that I found on a
quick Google search. Rueters reports were also extensively used.
CNN included both the AP obit and a separate story.
NPR covered it.
Billborad ran an obit online. I don't subscribe but I can't help but
think they covered it more in print.
Most of the major jazz magazines are monthly, so I doubt you can expect
coverage until they are printed.... (Jazz Times did do something
online... I would expect more when the next print issue is published)
Surely no one expected more than a cursory mention in Rolling Stone,
World News Tonight and Tigerbeat
(-:
Just curious, but where exactly was it SUPPOSED to be covered where it
was not?
cliff
Michael Fitzgerald
wrote:
>For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice on
>back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media. John
>Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
>coverage.
How about some accuracy, please? On December 31, 1979, The New York
Times ran the obit (including a photo) for Richard Rodgers on page A1-
the paper's FRONT PAGE - continued on A12 - the ENTIRE PAGE (no other
articles, no advertisements) - with five photos.
Hardly "scant notice on back pages of newspapers".
Mike
fitz...@eclipse.net
http://www.eclipse.net/~fitzgera - Gigi Gryce book - ARSC award winner!
http://www.JazzDiscography.com
Glenn Dowdy
"Michael Fitzgerald" <fitz...@eclipse.net> wrote in message
news:orrvb0l00op04afq2...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:45:48 GMT, "Al Stevens" <nob...@home.com>
> wrote:
> >For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice on
> >back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media.
John
> >Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
> >coverage.
>
> How about some accuracy, please? On December 31, 1979, The New York
> Times ran the obit (including a photo) for Richard Rodgers on page A1-
> the paper's FRONT PAGE - continued on A12 - the ENTIRE PAGE (no other
> articles, no advertisements) - with five photos.
>
> Hardly "scant notice on back pages of newspapers".
>
the front. Not a word on them back pages. Damn editors.
Glenn D.
ric
> >For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice on
> >back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media. John
> >Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
> >coverage.
>
> How about some accuracy, please? On December 31, 1979, The New York
> Times ran the obit (including a photo) for Richard Rodgers on page A1-
> the paper's FRONT PAGE - continued on A12 - the ENTIRE PAGE (no other
> articles, no advertisements) - with five photos.
>
> Hardly "scant notice on back pages of newspapers".
And wasn't that Lennon fellow *MURDERED* ?? (not to mention slightly
more famous among the masses.)
Matt
>
> Matt, how much different do you think the coverage would have been if
> someone had shot Richard Rodgers and John Lennon had kacked from a heart
> attack? The getting shot part would have gotten Rodgers some extra
> attention, but Elvis didn't get shot, those Gibb dudes didn't get shot,
> Janis Joplin didn't get shot, and so on.
>
> It has to do with popular culture and what's news, not music.
>
> Al
The coverage would have been quite different for Rodgers I am sure.
Lennon's situation would have been as tragic though not as dramatic I
suspect. Again this is a weak comparison Al. I love Richard Rodgers music
as much as the next person. I recognize his amazing contribution to the
world of music like any educated music lover. No one should dispute that.
BUT Lennon changed the WAY we listen to music twice as leader of the
Beatles. The Beatles shaped popular culture. They opened the British
invasion. Their music has crossed EVERY genre of contemporary music and
influenced directly or indirectly almost every musician from that time to
now. Their list of "firsts" is an embarrassment of riches. Then add in his
social contributions to world peace. Miss America/Universe talk about it,
but John Lennon put himself center stage risking his reputation, image, and
popularity to do something about it. The list goes on and on of the man's
efforts and accomplishments. His death via an act of senseless violence was
not only shocking, but full of grotesque irony. If you wrote a fictional
story paralleling Lennon's life, no one would believe it because it would be
too over the top. The timing and manner of his death signaled the close of
the sixties/seventies for millions of people not only from a calendar
perspective (12-8-1980), but from a cultural perspective. Lennon was also
killed just as he was embarking on the latest artistic phase of his life.
People realized the value that was stolen from us. Music that would never
be heard. Lennon the icon was and is much larger than Lennon the man. His
death by any account deserved the press it got. Had McCartney (my hero)
suffered the same fate at the same time, similar coverage could be expected.
Today however, the death of McCartney from natural causes would be a
newsworthy event, but not to the magnitude that it would have been at his
peak of cultural influence. It is anybody's guess what Lennon would be
doing now if he were still alive, but assume he got tired of the spotlight
and faded once again back into the woodwork. I suspect his death would rate
slightly more intense notice than George Harrison's recent death. The
difference is in the timing and the current activity. Our culture is all
about "what have you done for me lately" in my opinion. Harrison left the
public stage years ago. McCartney takes a very casual approach to the
public venue. Neither shape culture today as they once did. No surprise
then that Harrison's death meant less to the media than it once did.
McCartney will probably receive the same.
Richard Rogers did not EVER command the culture shaping power that
Lennon had even at Rogers' peak. This does not diminish his contribution as
a composer, but puts his contribution into perspective (for me anyway). By
the time Rogers died, he was simply a very talented man who died of old age
in the press's mind. He was mentioned in passing by the news briefly, but
to expect Lennon level reactions is unwarranted. Everybody dies eventually.
We all deep down know this. How you live and/or how you die can influence
the attention we give it. Die in your sleep from old age and every one
smiles and looks back on fond memories. Die violently at the top of your
popularity in your prime and you get a much more visceral and dramatic
response. I compare Lennon's death more to Marilyn Monroe, James Dean,
Elvis, or John Kennedy. The icon becomes bigger than the person.
Going out on a limb here, and at great risk of being flamed, I am not
all that surprised at the lack of notice the press gave the passing of Elvin
. I love Elvin like everyone else in this group, but fundamentally Elvin
was a sideman. He was a drummer. Yes, he changed the way we play the
instrument and his influence will last a long time (perhaps as long as their
are drumsets), but that influence is upon a very narrow and exclusive group.
Namely musicians. We can all name phenomenal musicians in every genre that
have died and been passed over by the media. We can also, if we are honest
about it, name pioneers and giants of our particular day job industries that
have never and will never get any mention by anyone but their trade papers.
(Elvin will be mentioned and featured I am sure in Modern Drummer, Drum!,
DownBeat, JazzTimes, etc.) This is not a nation's embarrassment, nor is it
racism. It is just the way things are. Everyone knows who the celebrities
are, so when they die we all have an interest. The media knows this and
informs us of the event. When someone that NOT everyone knows dies, we
CAN'T all relate to it and the media doesn't bother us with it. Too bad I
agree, but what do we do about it? I have heard or read more than one
nationally mentioned obituary of a "famous" or powerful person whom I have
never heard of. It is annoying and on some occasions slightly embarrassing.
How can anyone, much less everyone, be expected to know or know of
everyone? It is unreasonable.
I would be truly surprised if ANY drummers other than Ringo Starr and
Charlie Watts rate more than a passing mention when they die. Louie Bellson
might get a nod. More than that I believe is wishful thinking. Musicians
will know. Maybe that is enough. Maybe not. We as musicians also tend to
carry a certain level of self-importance about our craft. We often feel
that what we do should be as important to everyone else as it is to us.
Sorry to disappoint those who hold that belief, but that is just not the way
it is. For example: Sports has the same sense of itself, but it doesn't
matter how loud they say it or how clever they portray it, I DON'T CARE
ABOUT SPORTS!!! I don't think it is NEARLY as important as sports fans
think it is. I never watch the scores at the end of the news. I couldn't
care less who won or lost unless I am playing, and even then I am just
playing for fun. Yet to hear the media, you would think it ranks right up
there with playing a clean double stroke roll (nonsense!). The fact is,
whether I like it or not, I am in the minority when it comes to my interest
in sports. The majority do care, and the media caters to that interest.
The popular mass media deals with the news and events that relate and
interest the popular mass. The more specialized stuff is left to the more
specialized media. Today, that specialized news is more available than
ever. I see little controversy here though I do share the disappointment
that Elvin Jones was overlooked.
Matt Porter
Al Stevens
> The coverage would have been quite different for Rodgers I am sure.
[snip]
I must agree with most of what you said (including the part about
SPORTS!!!). And about drummers. (I worked a gig with Louis Bellson once.
That is a story in itself.)
I'll add these observations. As much as Lennon influenced and changed how we
listen to music, the same can be said about Art Tatum, who changed forever
how piano is regarded and Clifford Brown, who to a lesser extent redefined
trumpet and bebop (Fats Navarro, too). And, of course, Mingus and Bill
Evans. One can only speculate about what these musicians might have achieved
and what directions they might have taken had they not died young. Yet the
their deaths were back page news. And that is because their music was not
mainstream. Their changes affected and influenced a much smaller slice of
society. I cannot speak much about what Lennon did or might have done to
bring about social change and world peace, though. I am unaware of (or have
just forgotten) his contributions outside of music. My fault, not his.
You comments about Harrison's recent death made me stop to think. I had
forgotten that he died, which says more about my lack of attention to pop
culture than about the significance of his death. But it made me agree with
your observations about my choice for comparisions. Rodgers and Lennon are
indeed a weak comparison, but I think my point about what the media find
newsworthy is still valid.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Al Stevens
"Michael Fitzgerald" <fitz...@eclipse.net> wrote in message
> How about some accuracy, please? On December 31, 1979, The New York
> Times ran the obit (including a photo) for Richard Rodgers on page A1-
> the paper's FRONT PAGE - continued on A12 - the ENTIRE PAGE (no other
> articles, no advertisements) - with five photos.
One newspaper? That's nice for New Yorkers. I was in Washington, DC at the
time. I don't recall that kind of coverage by the Post. I watched the news
on TV. Not much there, either. What's your point?
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Matt
problem with all of them is the narrowness of their appeal. The mainstream
media is almost required to appeal to the mainstream otherwise few will have
an interest. The media can't survive in that atmosphere.
A further (and shorter) example of my point: Can you name the most
recent Nobel Prize recipient to die? Any area is fine. Neither can I. It
doesn't lessen their contribution to society. If the media gave it an
"appropriate" amount of coverage, would you stop long enough to learn about
the person? How about all of them? The fact is many of those people are
receiving the award for work in fields for which you and I don't even have a
rudimentary understanding. The idea that we might understand or even care
about the discovery that prompted the award is idealistic at best.
How about the Congressional Medal of Honor? How many of those people
can you name? After Audie Murphy I come up with a pretty short list.
Again, not because their contribution is not enough, but it was not
something that all of us can necessarily relate to.
Do you know who Pete Conrad* was? Do you know how he died? Prior to
(and maybe during and after) this post, did you care? Doubtful. Not your
fault. He was not the memorable one in the public's mind and therefore did
not get the ink that his colleague** received.
Mass media must appeal to a mass audience or it cannot survive.
Specialized media must appeal to a specialized audience for it to survive.
I would no more expect CBS, ABC, NBC, or CNN news to report the comings and
goings of the world's greatest drummers, than I would expect Modern Drummer
to have a foreign correspondent reporting on the war in Iraq or to have a
White House correspondent. I don't read MD to stay informed about the
world's politics and they seem to agree.
Matt Porter
*Pete Conrad- Apollo 12 commander. Third man to walk on the moon died in a
motorcycle accident.
** Colleague- Neil Armstrong of course. The first man to walk on the moon.
He and Buzz Aldrin spent the least amount of time on the moon of all the
moonwalkers, but Armstrong is who we all remember because first was what
mattered. Right or wrong.
Bonus: Can you name the LAST man to walk on the moon? No cheating.
no.spam
news:a2d52481.04060...@posting.google.com...
Artie Shaw is the man. I read somewhere that Artie is releasing an album of
tracks "where the recording was most like his intention" or somesuch. Is
this new news and where do I find about this album?
And I agree with both you guys. Most people are under the impression that
popular music only began with rock 'n roll. How wrong is that! When the
big bands were playing in the late 30s they would just about shut down major
cities with the riots and traffic jams.
I'm not sure how much mention Elvin Jones would have got here in the
Australian press but I imagine it wouldn't have been much - the awesome
drummer that he was - and we idolise music here too - as pathetic as most of
it is.
I'm a big fan of Helen Forrest who was possibly the most popular female
singer in the WWII era (even beating FS in the polls)... only one of the
major papers had a single paragraph mention of her passing a few years ago.
Steve Carras
strings made him seem like it to hardcore cultists..sadly his is
ANOTHER that garbage neo-flingers ignore, because Mr.Shaw was retired
more or less by end of 1940s..)
Marcus A. Woelfle
"no.spam" <no....@no.spam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:40c11347$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
> Artie Shaw is the man. I read somewhere that Artie is releasing an album
of
> tracks "where the recording was most like his intention" or somesuch. Is
> this new news and where do I find about this album?
It's a 5-CD-Box called "Selfportrait" (Bluebird / BMG) released in 2001. It
contains 95 tracks and liner notes by Artie Shaw and Dick Sudhalter and is
strongly recommended.
Marcus
Michael Fitzgerald
wrote:
Oh please - as if The New York Times is some kind of podunk local
paper only read by people in the five boroughs.
Amazingly, you can get it in Washington, DC and just about everyplace
else in the world. It's got one of the widest circulations of any
daily paper. #3, as of last month, according to this
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000502402
NYT was probably #2 at the time to The Wall Street Journal (another
local NY rag only read by people living on Wall Street, NYC). USA
Today didn't exist in 1979.
If other papers had searchable digital archives like The New York
Times (every single issue, going back to 1851), I could do more. Maybe
you'd care to take the time to do the research to support your
allegation - which page was the Rodgers obit on in the Washington
Post? How many column inches did it receive? So far, it's my hard fact
against your vague memories.
Nobody@home - indeed.
Al Stevens
test. I worked at Kennedy Space Center for many years when I had a day gig.
I'd be surprised if people of my generation have forgotten the name Pete
Conrad.
Al
Al Stevens
"Michael Fitzgerald" <fitz...@eclipse.net> wrote in message
> Oh please - as if The New York Times is some kind of podunk local
> paper only read by people in the five boroughs.
And, of course, everyone in the country rushes out to get the Times every
day? To quote the punchline from an old joke, "What mouthpiece do you use?"
Epistrophy
HAR!! Oh, man, I wish I'd said that. I might later...
- Todd, ROFL
Steve Carras
> > UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
> > The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
> > May 30, 2004
> > A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
> > potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
> > the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
> > structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
> > angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
> > heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
> > Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> > Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> > Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
> > frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
> >
> > Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge
> > this most important musician when he passed," said Santana, whose 1999
> > album, "Supernatural," won nine Grammys and has sold more than 25
> > million copies. "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
> > corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
> > embarrassed to live in this country."
>
> ?? Ozzy Osbourne and Carlos Santana both aren't from the U.S., both
> have chosen to live in the U.S., both aren't "black," and both have
> chosen to concentrate on playing non-corny music that to a large
> extent goes back to U.S. "black" music. (Heavy metal isn't "corny"
> music --
Yeah, I never THOUGHT I'd hear it called corny...
Joseph writes:
>
> The reason for the slight, Santana believes, is a matter of
> > racial and cultural prejudice. "When Miles (Davis) died (in 1991), for
> > four hours in France they stopped everything on TV and radio, all the
> > regular programming, and just showed Miles for four hours, all through
> > France," Santana recalled. "Here in the U.S., it's embarrassing (how
> > jazz is treated). People should be ashamed of themselves."MTV and VH1
> > are virtually jazz-free, and the music has historically been held in
> > much higher esteem abroad than here, in its homeland. But Santana
> > believes exceptions should be made for musicians as notable as Jones,
> > who Pearl Jam drummer Matt Cameron hailed as "a major force to be
> > reckoned with" who could "wow the pants off a jazz fan or non-jazz
> > fan" alike. "If I would've been running MTV, I would've stopped all
> > the corny stuff they show and shown one of Elvin's (drum) solos.
> > Because he represents the highest level of creativity, like Duke
> > Ellington," Santana said. "America is such an ignorant country. I
> > understand that I'm hard on America, but if you look at all the
> > (alarming) things on CNN, (you'll see) we need to
> > grow up quickly. We need to crystallize our existence because we place
> > economic values over spiritual ones.
> >
> > "I'm hurt. And if I was a little hard or cruel with MTV and VH1, they
> > deserve it. They need to stop showing what they are showing, and show
> > real musicians. Why do they keep showing such stupidity? MTV needs to
> > reassess its priorities."
>
> It's old news that Europeans pay U.S. jazz more respect than Americans
> do.
Precisely, it's one of things many of us have heard about jazz'sd
recognition value.
Apparently Carlos wants to get on the same bandwagon as Wynton and
> company about that. Middle-aged and old men trying to tell children
> what they should really like listening to -- seems somewhat
> self-involved and pointless to me. Think of all the acoustic blues
> musicians, for instance, whose parents thought they ought to be
> playing something else "better" such as gospel or ragtime or
> classical. I'm glad they didn't listen, or we might not have Carlos
> Santana.
>
> The idea of MTV currently being racist against "blacks" is laughable.
> They're _ageist_ against old "blacks" and old "whites" and old
> everyone else, including Elvin.
Well, save for several folks: Ozzy, Tony Bennett, and Sinatra (who of
course act in the latter's musical words, "Young at heart".) Certainly
something like the long late Jimnmy Durante (who goes WAY b ack to the
TWENTIES!!! and whose vaudevillian style DEFINITELY would be
out-of-place on MTV wouldn't be even considered)
Joe writes:
That's their demographic. I haven't
> looked at VH1 at a long time but I think they have no interest in real
> jazz, which is their business. (If VH1 make a big deal of it when
> Brubeck passes, then Carlos will be proven right about the racism
> issue, but I doubt they will.) It's mostly about age groups.
>
Great point,esp.about Brubeck.
> Carlos is the same guy who's said that everyt
>
> Joseph Scott
Steve Carras
> Matt wrote:
>
> > In all fairness (and I do take your point), Lennon was assassinated by a
> > psychotic gunman. That will make the headlines rock star or not. I think
> > the point you make is a good one, but the comparison is poor. Kurt Cobain
> > on the other hand...
> >
> > Matt Porter
> >
> > news:M7qvc.57587$0X2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
> > > news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > > Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> > > > Jones' death elicited scant media coverage.
> > >
> vs
> > > other art forms. It's all about what's news as determined by the media.
> > >
> > > For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice on
> > > back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media. John
> > > Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
> > > coverage.
> > >
> > > comparison to that of Rodgers, whose compositions date back to the 1920s.
> > > His musicals won 34 Tony Awards, 15 Academy Awards, and two Pulitzer
> Prizes.
> > >
> > > Rodgers' indirect contribution to jazz is substantial, too. Leafing
> through
> > > a fake book I find: Dancing on the Ceiling, Have You Met Miss Jones, I
> Could
> > > Write a Book, It Might As Well Be Spring, Little Girl Blue, My Funny
> > > Valentine, My Romance, Spring Is Here, Sunday, This Can't Be Love, Thou
> > > Swell, Where Or When, You Took Advantage Of Me, to name a few.
> > >
> > > But Rodgers was 77, died of natural causes, and not a rock icon.
> > > Consequently, his death was not newsworthy.
> > >
> > > Al Stevens
> > > http://www.alstevens.com
> > >
> > >
>
> Matt,
> This Al fuck is just a typical old white asshole who keeps playing LONG dead
> music.
I've seen his webpage and it is very interesting.[But then whadda I
know..I'M hyst a white fuck - can I say that? - who is listenting to
the WHITE Canadian classic roq group The Guess Who and has downloaded
Mantovani, Steppenwolf, Three Dog Night and Phil hendrie!!)
Steve Carras
I am sorry,
> but I don't see growth in old fuckers sitting around talking shit about "the good
> old days" and belittling new music. This is nothing new. Shit, Louie Armstrong, one
> of THE most innovative players of ALL time for his era, ended up being a fucking cum
> stain by saying what Bird, Max Roach and Diz were doing with Bebop was shit.
Louis was right. There was nothing commercial or American coming out
of the guys that Satchmo was slamming. (By commercial I mean by what
has been long considered TRADIONALLY commercial, and what was popular
then, withb many many folks, as opposedly to the n arrow demographics
of neoswing and Streisand critics crap).
There's a reason why Lombardo, Dorsey, Armstrong, Kyser, Miller, Welk,
and the two Crosbys succdeed back then as they did----they were
versatile and tried to play the everyman part on radio and in stage
and in flicks, and later in TV and they succeded handsomely.
The boppers have won the popularity contest, sadly, ad far as 1940s
music goes and that is due to bad old polticial correctness.
animy
>
> "Robert Schuh" <r...@robschuh.com> wrote in message
> news:40BE6727...@robschuh.com...
>
> > This Al fuck is just a typical old white asshole who keeps playing LONG
> dead
> > music.
>
> Have we met? :-) Actually, we probably have many acquaintances in common.
I
> worked briefly for the rat, too, and I did several Sacramento festivals
when
> I was with Bill Allred's eight piece swing band. "Side Street Strutters"
> rings a bell, but I can't remember for sure. I worked with Ira Sullivan on
a
> few club dates, and I read on the net that you did, too.
Never mind Schuh (German for 'suck')
He's an anal retentive fag bitch who's been trolling USNET music groups for
years.
Joseph Scott
"mtv news" "don lamond" (born 1921) 1
"mtv news" "dodo marmarosa" (born 1925) 0
"mtv news" "elvin jones" (born 1926) 2560
"mtv news" "james brown" (born 1928) 1270
"mtv news" "mick jagger" (born 1943) 1340
"mtv news" "carlos santana" (born 1947) 4580
"mtv news" "ozzy osbourne" (born 1948) 2810
"mtv news" "lionel richie" (born 1949) 809
"mtv news" "janet jackson" (born 1966) 13300
"mtv news" "eminem" (born 1972) 28100
"mtv news" "nicole richie" (born 1981) 3100
"mtv news" "kelly osbourne" (born 1984) 3280
Joseph Scott
sum1
OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
-MIKE-
> OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
>
Then turn the TV off, jackass.
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Robert Schuh
> I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
Tell me asshole, who put a gun to your head to listen to the media??
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
GT~
>
> I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
Thanks. Yer welcome.
sum1
> > I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> > OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
> >
>
> Then turn the TV off, jackass.
>
>
> -MIKE-
I don't own a television, _asshole_.
sum1
> sum1 wrote:
>
> > I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> > OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
>
> Tell me asshole, who put a gun to your head to listen to the media??
Ok, I'll tell you.
Why'd you look?
Who put a gun to your head?
fuckwad
still...@webtv.net
I've been away a few days cause my phone line was down. Nice to find
rec.music.bluenote hasn't changed since I left.
sum1
> > sum1 wrote:
> >
> > I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> > OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
>
>
> Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
> Thanks. Yer welcome.
Idiot.
-MIKE-
>> Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
>
> Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
>
Oh, then the guy with the gun was making you read it all. Ok.
Go away, jackass.
GT~
news:544b2430.04061...@posting.google.com...
AND??
>
>
> > Thanks. Yer welcome.
>
> Idiot.
You should appreciate my advice, dumb1. You really should....
(laughs)
Robert Schuh
Then don't read the material you find offensive. What a ignorant twat.
sum1
> sum1 wrote:
>
> > "-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrums.com> wrote in message news:<2ird86F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > > > I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> > > > OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Then turn the TV off, jackass.
> > >
> > >
> > > -MIKE-
> >
> > I don't own a television, _asshole_.
>
> Then don't read the material you find offensive. What a ignorant twat.
It will be about like trying to avoid any mention of the Olympics this
summer. Good luck.
sum1
> "sum1" <su...@lycos.jp> wrote in message
> news:544b2430.04061...@posting.google.com...
> > "GT~" <no...@none.com> wrote in message
> news:<caapa...@news1.newsguy.com>...
> > > > sum1 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I wish they would have ignored Reagan's death as assiduously. I've
> > > > OD'ed on American propaganda this week.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
> >
> > Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
>
> AND??
Reading is still challenging for you I see.
sum1
> su...@lycos.jp (sum1) wrote:
>
> >> Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
> >
> > Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
> >
>
> Oh, then the guy with the gun was making you read it all. Ok.
>
> Go away, jackass.
>
>
> -MIKE-
I suppose then that you suggest I not look at any newspaper, turn on
the internet or the radio, or pass by any television for a week, eh?
That I just go on vacation until the whole thing blows over, eh?
What an ignorant bucket of puke.
sum1
inflammatory trolls has suggested that I could have avoided the deluge
of American propaganda instigated by the death of Ronald Reagan simply
by turning off my television, radio or computer, or by passing over
the front page articles and color photos found in most newspapers.
The corollary to this proposition - that any mention of Reagan was
avoidable - is that news of Elvin's death was there - all you had to
do was look for it.
So, someone tell Santana to stop being such a lazy bastard and to
start searching for the news that he's interested in.
Jay Epstein <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message news:<t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com>...
> Thank you Elvin, for "changing my molecular stucture". - Jay
> ...................................
> By George Varga
> UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
> The SAN DIEGO Union-Tribune
> May 30, 2004
> A hippie at heart, Carlos Santana has long championed music as a
> potent force for creating positive vibrations that as this veteran of
> the 1969 Woodstock festival puts it, "can change your molecular
> structure." But the legendary rocker sounded uncharacteristically
> angry during a discussion about the recent death of one of his musical
> heroes, jazz drum icon Elvin Jones, who died May 18 of heart failure.
> Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> Jones' death elicited scant media coverage. He expressed his
> frustration during a recent interview from his San Rafael office.
>
> "I'm really embarrassed for this nation, and for MTV and VH1 and
> Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge
> this most important musician when he passed," said Santana, whose 1999
> album, "Supernatural," won nine Grammys and has sold more than 25
> million copies. "For them to (play up) Ozzy Osbourne and other
> corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really
> embarrassed to live in this country." The mustachioed guitarist and
> bandleader first heard Jones in 1965 on the John Coltrane Quartet's
> epic album "A Love Supreme," about a year after the teenaged Santana
> moved to San Francisco from Tijuana and became an American
> citizen. He was immediately struck by the force of the quartet's music
> and the impact of Jones' polyrhythmic drumming.
> "When that intro comes in on 'A Love Supreme' it's like the gates of
> heaven opening," Santana, 56, said. "In fact, when I die, if I don't
> hear 'A Love Supreme,' I'll turn back; I'll know I'm in the wrong
> place. For me, Elvin was Número Uno, forever, for all ages, for all
> existence. I miss him terribly; I've been playing his music nonstop
> since he died, especially 'Agenda' (from Jones' 1969 'Poly-Currents')
> with Joe Farrell (on sax). He was a supreme drummer who was doing
> things that were totally different than anyone else. "When I hear
> Elvin's music I hear the pyramids, I hear African and pre-Columbian
> music, and I hear the future. Elvin is the beat of life itself, and
> his music transcends 'clever' or 'cute' or any superlatives. When he
> and Coltrane played, and everyone else in the quartet dropped out,
> that's what Jimi Hendrix would play if he was still alive. That's what
> John McLaughlin wants to play, and he's alive, because there is
> nothing more pure or vibrant than Coltrane and Elvin."
>
> It is because he holds Jones in such high esteem that Santana was
> angry at the absence of media tributes to the masterful drummer, who
> was 76 when he died and kept performing until just weeks before his
> death. The reason for the slight, Santana believes, is a matter of
-MIKE-
>> >
>> > Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
>> >
>>
>> Oh, then the guy with the gun was making you read it all. Ok.
>>
>> Go away, jackass.
>>
>>
>> -MIKE-
>
>
> I suppose then that you suggest I not look at any newspaper, turn on
> the internet or the radio, or pass by any television for a week, eh?
> That I just go on vacation until the whole thing blows over, eh?
>
> What an ignorant bucket of puke.
>
Gee, the man ran the most powerful nation on earth for most of a
decade, and you presume to think it is not newsworthy.
I wonder what your real problem is. Is it that you have some sort
of inhuman intolerance for what you hear that it somehow harms you
or causes you severe discomfort? Or is it jealously, hatred, or
some other dysfunction?
Maybe all it is, is that you just have to bitch about something and
make sure that *someone8 hears you so you can feel significant in
some way.
It's guys like you who fart in a room and then complain about the
smell. Go away, troll. And quit hiding behind the asian anonymity,
coward. If you're going to talk shit, have the balls to put a name
to it.
-GT-
>
> Gee, the man ran the most powerful nation on earth for most of a
> decade, and you presume to think it is not newsworthy.
>
> I wonder what your real problem is. Is it that you have some sort
> of inhuman intolerance for what you hear that it somehow harms you
> or causes you severe discomfort? Or is it jealously, hatred, or
> some other dysfunction?
>
> Maybe all it is, is that you just have to bitch about something and
> make sure that *someone8 hears you so you can feel significant in
> some way.
>
> It's guys like you who fart in a room and then complain about the
> smell. Go away, troll. And quit hiding behind the asian anonymity,
> coward. If you're going to talk shit, have the balls to put a name
> to it.
>
You got it. That sums up dumcum1 perfectly.
sum1
> >> >> Hey dumb1, do you know what the on-off button is?
> >> >
> >> > Your newspaper features buttons, eh? Which institution is this?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh, then the guy with the gun was making you read it all. Ok.
> >>
> >> Go away, jackass.
> >>
> >>
> >> -MIKE-
> >
> >
> > I suppose then that you suggest I not look at any newspaper, turn on
> > the internet or the radio, or pass by any television for a week, eh?
> > That I just go on vacation until the whole thing blows over, eh?
> >
> > What an ignorant bucket of puke.
> >
>
> Gee, the man ran the most powerful nation on earth for most of a
> decade, and you presume to think it is not newsworthy.
Indeed. But news is not propoganda.
>
> I wonder what your real problem is.
Dickheads like you that don't understand the difference, to name one.
jmt
It's not likely you can Totally Avoid the MediaCircleJerks which
occur with ConstipatingRegularity like all the time and stuff. You
can; however, stop watching any televised "News" programming. And you
can also limit your reading material to the more sane avenues of
Communication which are available and plentiful. You also seem to have
ComputerAccess, which allows you to be Monumentally picky as to what you
read. Like Music,(and ManyOtherThings), the News was a Hell of a lot
more interesting when there was significantly Less of it.
Keeping you Posted for 146 yrs;
jmt
I deeply and seriously resent your reference to my ApeyLittleFriends as
"Ignorant and Inflammatory". I prefer to think of them as Silly and
Inocuous; Annoying yet Tiresome. So there.
Robert Schuh
PLONK. Has this weasel EVER posted on topic?
-GT-
> > > the internet or the radio, or pass by any television for a week, eh?
> > > That I just go on vacation until the whole thing blows over, eh?
> > >
> > > What an ignorant bucket of puke.
Are you some kind of shithead or what....
If you can't tune Ronald Reagan's death out, then you're just gonna have to
deal with it, 'cause there's nothing you can about it.
That's just tough....
Stick with your children's cartoons.
JC Martin
> A recent spate of messages from some of usenet's most ignorant and
> inflammatory trolls has suggested that I could have avoided the deluge
> of American propaganda instigated by the death of Ronald Reagan simply
> by turning off my television, radio or computer, or by passing over
> the front page articles and color photos found in most >newspapers.
It's interesting that you're so anti-Reagan given that your overall
personality is very conservative, stiff, non-creative, boring, ordinary,
etc. Seriously, I had you pegged as a conservative.
-JC
-MIKE-
> ...stiff, non-creative, boring, ordinary,
> etc.
>
> -JC
>
You just described Al Gore and John Kerry.
Skip Elliott Bowman
At least those two are honest.
Steve Turner
>>>...stiff, non-creative, boring, ordinary,
>>>etc.
>>>
>>>-JC
>>>
>>
>>You just described Al Gore and John Kerry.
>
>
> At least those two are honest.
Or more likely they just do a really good job of coming across that way.
No such thing as an honest politician.
This post made possible by Al Gore, inventor of the internet.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.
JC Martin
And just about any politician other than Reagan or Clinton. Most
politicians represent the status quo and I have no interest in delving into
politics beyond that.
-JC
Skip Elliott Bowman
"Steve Turner" <bbqb...@H2OlooWoodworks.com> wrote in message
news:iWjAc.6573$ZG2....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
> Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:
> > "-MIKE-" <mi...@mikedrums.com> wrote in message
> >>"JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>>...stiff, non-creative, boring, ordinary,
> >>>etc.
> >>>
> >>>-JC
> >>>
> >>
> >>You just described Al Gore and John Kerry.
> >
> >
> > At least those two are honest.
>
> Or more likely they just do a really good job of coming across that way.
> No such thing as an honest politician.
There is--I'm married to one.
-MIKE-
> And just about any politician other than Reagan or Clinton. Most
> politicians represent the status quo and I have no interest in delving
> into politics beyond that.
>
> -JC
>
Sure ya do. :-)
JC Martin
> >
> > And just about any politician other than Reagan or Clinton. Most
> > politicians represent the status quo and I have no interest in delving
> > into politics beyond that.
> >
> > -JC
> >
>
>
> Sure ya do. :-)
Well yeah...but not here :-P.
Peas,
JC
-GT*
"JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ariAc.17396$Fo4.2...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Hey, don't you know they drive on the wrong side of the road in Japan?
sum1
It's interesting how off the mark you are - and not just about me.
Stop being so pretentious, get out and experience life.
-GT*
So did you get that from the fortune cookie you opened this morning?
JC Martin
That's very funny coming from you corporate music lover.
-JC
Troy Tyson
suicide. www.cobaincase.com
:::troy:::
"Matt" <porterd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ovKdneA9_IE...@giganews.com...
> In all fairness (and I do take your point), Lennon was assassinated by a
> psychotic gunman. That will make the headlines rock star or not. I think
> the point you make is a good one, but the comparison is poor. Kurt Cobain
> on the other hand...
>
> Matt Porter
>
>
> "Al Stevens" <nob...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:M7qvc.57587$0X2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Jay Epstein" <ja...@earth.man> wrote in message
> > news:t07sb053n54h70vd1...@4ax.com...
> >
> > > Santana, who will be honored in Los Angeles as the 2004 Latin
> > > Recording Academy Person of the Year on Aug. 30, is incensed that
> > > Jones' death elicited scant media coverage.
> >
> > Get used to it, Carlos. It isn't a racist thing. And it's not about jazz
> vs
> > other art forms. It's all about what's news as determined by the media.
> >
> > For example, composer Richard Rogers died in 1979. He got scant notice
on
> > back pages of newspapers and was barely mentioned in the music media.
John
> > Lennon died almost a year later. His death got headlines and mass media
> > coverage.
> >
> > Lennon's contribution to popular music was substantial, but it pales in
> > comparison to that of Rodgers, whose compositions date back to the
1920s.
> > His musicals won 34 Tony Awards, 15 Academy Awards, and two Pulitzer
> Prizes.
> >
> > Rodgers' indirect contribution to jazz is substantial, too. Leafing
> through
> > a fake book I find: Dancing on the Ceiling, Have You Met Miss Jones, I
> Could
> > Write a Book, It Might As Well Be Spring, Little Girl Blue, My Funny
> > Valentine, My Romance, Spring Is Here, Sunday, This Can't Be Love, Thou
> > Swell, Where Or When, You Took Advantage Of Me, to name a few.
> >
> > But Rodgers was 77, died of natural causes, and not a rock icon.
> > Consequently, his death was not newsworthy.
> >
> > Al Stevens
> > http://www.alstevens.com
> >
> >
>
>
*GT*
"Troy Tyson" <bov...@enter.net> wrote in message
news:ps_Ac.149$mG2....@newshog.newsread.com...
> Kurt Cobain was murdered as well. There is not *one* bit of evidence of a
> suicide. www.cobaincase.com
>
Yeah and I ate barbecue with Jimmy Hoffa the other day....
I also had a flying saucer land in my backyard.
sum1
> "sum1" <su...@lycos.jp> wrote in message
> news:544b2430.04061...@posting.google.com...
> > "JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:<ariAc.17396$Fo4.2...@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> > > "sum1" <su...@lycos.jp> wrote in message
> > > news:544b2430.0406...@posting.google.com...
> > > > A recent spate of messages from some of usenet's most ignorant and
> > > > inflammatory trolls has suggested that I could have avoided the deluge
> > > > of American propaganda instigated by the death of Ronald Reagan simply
> > > > by turning off my television, radio or computer, or by passing over
> > > > the front page articles and color photos found in most >newspapers.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's interesting that you're so anti-Reagan given that your overall
> > > personality is very conservative, stiff, non-creative, boring, ordinary,
> > > etc. Seriously, I had you pegged as a conservative.
> > >
> > > -JC
> >
> >
> > It's interesting how off the mark you are - and not just about me.
> > Stop being so pretentious, get out and experience life.
>
>
> That's very funny coming from you corporate music lover.
>
> -JC
Corporare meaning what? That I like music by guys who record for the
majors? That would go as well for Chris Botti (Sony) as for Pat
Metheny (Warner) as for Dave Douglas (RCA).
Smooth jazz is just like any other genre of music. There are a few
guys who make big bucks with the major labels. Everyone else is
working hard to make a living on small labels or by publishing
themselves.
Give it a rest already.
Al Stevens
"*GT*" <am...@none.com> wrote in message
news:cb2bl...@news1.newsguy.com...
Yep, and the moon landings were a faked conspiracy, Johnson had Kennedy
killed, Clinton had that aide killed, SH had WMDs, and Liberace died because
he got into some bad crack.
(Only one of the above is true. Guess which one.)
Mike C.
--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
"As much as I love music, I never really thought it was my life. I thought
it was the vehicle I used to express my life" - Herbie Mann
"*GT*" <am...@none.com> wrote in message
news:cb2bl...@news1.newsguy.com...
>
Robert Schuh
Hey Al,
What is it like to be such a poor player that you have to try to play dated 70
year old crap? You are nto even old enough to be from the Big Band era. Hell, if
you listened to the Jazz that was being played when you grew up, you should at
least be playing dated 50s bullshit, now dated 20s bullshit.