Susie Ibarra - Where to start?
Tom Kelley
that she appears on many recordings, but I'm wondering where is the best
place to start? I'm not a big fan of David S. Ware (just my own taste),
and I've not heard much of the William Parker groups (In Order to Survive
and Little Huey Orchestra). Where else does she appear (and how are the
Parker groups)?
Also, I understand that she is no longer playing with William Parker.
There was some sort of personal problem between them, prompting her to
leave the David S. Ware and "In Order To Survive" groups. Any idea what
went on here?
--
Tom Kelley
datap...@earthlink.net
Don Herzog
Tom Kelley <datap...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I saw Susie Ibarra play and was very impressed with her drumming. I know
>that she appears on many recordings, but I'm wondering where is the best
>place to start? I'm not a big fan of David S. Ware (just my own taste),
>and I've not heard much of the William Parker groups (In Order to Survive
>and Little Huey Orchestra). Where else does she appear (and how are the
>Parker groups)?
She's on "The Multiplication Table" with Matthew Shipp and Wm Parker. A
very nice date, with Shipp working out in his inimitable way on C-Jam
Blues, A Train, and Autumn Leaves, along with some of his own stuff. I
probably prefer Whit Dickey in that setting, but she's awfully good.
I don't know anything about any feud with Parker, but I'm curious too.
don
Dan Given
>
> I saw Susie Ibarra play and was very impressed with her drumming. I know
> that she appears on many recordings, but I'm wondering where is the best
> place to start? I'm not a big fan of David S. Ware (just my own taste),
> and I've not heard much of the William Parker groups (In Order to Survive
> and Little Huey Orchestra). Where else does she appear (and how are the
> Parker groups)?
>
> There was some sort of personal problem between them, prompting her to
> leave the David S. Ware and "In Order To Survive" groups. Any idea what
> went on here?
I haven't heard the duet Ibarra did with Assif Tsahar, nor the one she
did with Denis Charles, so don't know how those would be, to hear her
duets.
But, I do really like In Order to Survive. Ibarra is on three discs of
this band, the most recent being Posium Pendasum on FMP. Haven't heard
it, but The Peach Orchard (on AUM Fidelity) is among my favorite
recordings from last year. Give it a try. Both of the Tsahar trio
albums, with Ibarra and Parker, are good. The one on Silkheart would
probably be my choice of the two.
As for the Ware band -- I've always felt that Ware is the low point of
the quartet, and these are far down the list of where I would look for
her (or Parker or Shipp). But no recording can really capture the
presence that she has in concert.
About her leaving In Order to Survive -- haven't heard that yet. I
seriously hope not, as I will be seeing them next week. I think one of
Steven Joerg's missives about the happenings of the AUM posse would have
mentioned that. I will do my best to find out, and keep you informed.
Dan
Tom Kelley
<lgi...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
>
>About her leaving In Order to Survive -- haven't heard that yet. I
>seriously hope not, as I will be seeing them next week. I think one of
>Steven Joerg's missives about the happenings of the AUM posse would have
>mentioned that. I will do my best to find out, and keep you informed.
The info I found about Ibarra leaving the "In Order To Survive" group
comes from the Downtown Music Gallery website, run by Bruce Gallanter, who
is very plugged into the NYC scene:
http://www.dtmgallery.com/news/dtmg0036.htm
"WILLIAM PARKER/IN ORDER TO SURVIVE-Posium Pendasem (FMP 105) This is a
live recording from April of '98 in
Berlin with Assif Tsahar on reeds as a guest. Since then, there has been
some bad blood this year and now both Susie Ibarra & husband Assif are no
longer involved in any of William Parker's projects. A very sad split
which is beneficial to no one involved. "
--
Tom Kelley
datap...@earthlink.net
Richard
yesterday received an email, from someone who should know, announcing the
lineup for the Guelph Jazz Festival, to begin on Sept. 9. In Order To
Survive is set to play on the 11th, with Susie Ibarra listed as part of the
band.
I'd recommend everything I've heard with Susie Ibarra on it, including the
Ware recordings. But I think the two I'd advise a beginner to check out are
Matthew Shipp's "The Multiplication Table," already mentioned, and last
year's "Ein Sof" by the Assif Tsahar Trio, also featuring William Parker, on
the Silkheart label.
Dan Given <lgi...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote in message
news:37CDBB42...@julian.uwo.ca...
George Scala
Rick Lopez has a Susie Ibarra discography at
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/IBARRA.disc.html
George Scala
gscala at carolina.rr.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~scala
Walter Davis
>did with Denis Charles, so don't know how those would be, to hear her
>duets.
I like both of these quite a bit. _Drum Talk_ is the duet with Charles,
it's on Wobbly Rail (not too hard to find), and is awfully good and
pretty varied for a drum duo....but obviously not for everyone due to
the instrumentation. _Home Cooking_ is the duet with saxist (and hubby)
Tsahar, and I think that was self-released. It's good and I think much
better than either of the Tsahar trio disks -- one of which I actually
disliked, I think the one on Eremite (sorry guys). I've also seen that
duo live and enjoyed it (loved her playing, was content with his).
I'll second the highest possible recommendations for In Order to
Survive. _Compassion Seizes Bed-Stuy_ is my personal fave. I'll also
second the statement that nothing recorded comes close to capturing the
magic of her live. (she has to be seen to be believed, I've yet to meet
a drummer that didn't marvel at her technique...not like I'm meeting 10
drummers a day or anything)
On the other matters, she has definitely left the Ware 4tet, but I think
is still making some appearances with In Order to Survive (weren't they
just in Ann Arbor & Canada), but I suspect that's just to fulfill
contractual obligations. Near as I can tell, mutual stupidity and
strong-headedness was the cause of the flap (and to the benefit of none
as someone else noted). (Rubberneckers can check out an "open letter"
posted to rmb by Assif to whet their morbid curiosity)
-walt davis
Dan Given
>
> In article <37CDBB42...@julian.uwo.ca>,
> Dan Given <lgi...@julian.uwo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >I haven't heard the duet Ibarra did with Assif Tsahar, nor the one she
> >did with Denis Charles, so don't know how those would be, to hear her
> >duets.
> I like both of these quite a bit. _Drum Talk_ is the duet with Charles,
> it's on Wobbly Rail (not too hard to find), and is awfully good and
> pretty varied for a drum duo....but obviously not for everyone due to
> the instrumentation. _Home Cooking_ is the duet with saxist (and hubby)
> Tsahar, and I think that was self-released. It's good and I think much
> better than either of the Tsahar trio disks -- one of which I actually
> disliked, I think the one on Eremite (sorry guys). I've also seen that
> duo live and enjoyed it (loved her playing, was content with his).
It is probably the disc on Eremite that you don't like - the one on
Silkheart is superior, but still not a great album. That is why I've so
far passed on Home Cooking. I figure that if they can't make a totally
captivating album with Wm.Parker, I won't bother seeing what they are
like without him.
But, I will take yuor recommendation, and hopefully she will have them
with her for sale next week in Guelph.
> On the other matters, she has definitely left the Ware 4tet, but I think
> is still making some appearances with In Order to Survive (weren't they
> just in Ann Arbor & Canada), but I suspect that's just to fulfill
> contractual obligations. Near as I can tell, mutual stupidity and
> strong-headedness was the cause of the flap (and to the benefit of none
> as someone else noted). (Rubberneckers can check out an "open letter"
posted to rmb by Assif to whet their morbid curiosity)
There lone Canadian appearance (I think) is next week. I popped off an
email to Steve Joerg, asking him about the status of IoTS. No reply yet,
but then now that you mention the letter to Joerg from Tsahar, maybe he
doesn't want to answer me.
I was talking with the artistic director of the Guelph jazz fest today,
and he said that he too had heard she has left the band, but has been
assured that she will be playing with Parker there. In addition to In
Order to Survive, Ibarra is also on a double bill the next day, with
Parker solo, followed by Ibarra duetting with Canadian cellist Anne
Bourne (whose claim to fame is a band with John Oswald and David
Prentice).
Dan
Walter Davis
"Richard" <cri...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I believe the feud was with David S. Ware and probably not Parker.
I'm trying to stay out of this, in hopes folks will stop talking
about the feuding (which is none of our business), and talk about the
music. But, I also don't want to see incorrect info out there. I don't
know everything that went on, but Susie left the Ware group because she
had problems with Steven Joerg, who runs the AUM Fidelity label and I
believe also acts as Ware's manager these days. I don't know what those
problems were (nor therefore whether her feelings were justified).
Things escalated after there was a profile of Susie in the NYT, Joerg
wrote a letter to the NYT in response, and Assif Tsahar posted an "open
letter to Steven Joerg" on rmb (and maybe elsewhere?).
I've met everyone involved in the dispute. I can't say I really know
any of them, but can say that they have all been nice, friendly,
honorable and not at all irascible in my dealings with them. I find it
hard to believe that whatever problems existed couldn't have been
solved, and done so in an appropriately private fashion.
-walt davis
Scott Black
Agreed about all the artists involved. These are all good folks, who
are passionate about their art. My hope is that they all receive the
recognition
that they each deserve. Hopefully time and distance will mellow us all.
One only need look at the history of this music, and the individuals who
have
created its history, to see how tentative things actually are.
We, as people, will be long gone...it will be the music that will long
survive.
These are some exceptional musicians. It is a pitty that the music will
suffer.
My best wishes go out to all concerned.
Scott
Monk5by5
than ever.
Odd thing is-I've seen the band with her-and she was great-but the band was
off-it was late-and they played a shoet set-and I saw them with the new
drummer(don't remember his name-he was good-but nothing like her)-but the band
was augmented with an incredible trombonist-and Ware was at the top of his
game-they played a brilliant 70-80 minute set-with Shipp & Parker in full
bloom.
I look forward to the next album
Richard
suggested that Ibarra may have had a problem with him. I don't know that
that's the case. My point is that I seriously doubt that she had a problem
with William Parker, but who knows? And I'm really going to be disappointed
if they never play/record together again.
Walter Davis <walter...@unc.edu> wrote in message
news:7qor3b$n3k$1...@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu...
Walter Davis
the band
>was augmented with an incredible trombonist
that sounds interesting -- anyone know who it was?
-walt davis
adamlo...@my-deja.com
The trombonist is Alex Lodico. He can be heard loud + clear with
William Parker's Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra. Unfortunately,
I don't know of any other bands with whom he currently plays. Anyone?
Regarding the status of Little Huey, from my perspective, the music
hasn't been "suffering". It's different now, sure, but Andrew Barker
(also in the Gold Sparkle Band) has totally stepped up his playing and
is one of the best young drummers in a town full of great young
drummers.
Of course Susie is a fantastic musician. Her trio with Cooper-Moore
and Charles Burnham (playing tonite at the Knit, by the way) produced
some compelling stuff when I saw their debut gig (the gospel revival
segment was completely over-the-top!). I hear that they'll be
releasing their debut CD on Ibarra's own Hopscotch label, so it'll be
interesting to see what happens there.
I guess my point is that it seems like people are writing off one of
the best bands in town without having even heard the amazing sounds
that are going down NOW.
Respectfully, zero gossip content,
Adam.
PS----In terms of Susie Ibarra recommendations, I'd say that in general
the In Order to Survive discs (not including the first one on Black
Saint, where Denis Charles and Jackson Krall were the drummers) are my
favorite contexts in which I've heard her. The duo CD with Charles is
also a lot of fun, but I feel it's not quite as strong as the first gig
I heard them play together (this is no diss, since that show ranks as
one of my fave shows ever). I wish I could hear that one again, if
only to hear their tribute to Blackwell one more time.
PPS----Full disclosure: I do unpaid grunt work for AUM Fidelity from
time to time, so take my comments as you will.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Walter Davis
adamlo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>I guess my point is that it seems like people are writing off one of
>the best bands in town without having even heard the amazing sounds
>that are going down NOW.
>
are mighty important to big bands, but they don't overshadow the other
12 or so musicians. And Andrew is a hell of a drummer.
Now I will admit to thinking that In Order to Survive as a trio (as they
played recently in DC) has to be radically different than as a quartet
with Ibarra, maybe so much so that comparisons become difficult -- if
in fact she's left the band which I don't know. But if they pick up a
new drummer, I don't foresee major problems.
But I do have concerns about the Ware quartet. Here, I think Ibarra was
the perfect drummer for that band, the right mix of power, subtlety,
intriguing sounds/techniques. (Others of course prefer Dickey or
Edwards, presumably some will prefer the new guy) I certainly won't
write them off without hearing the new guy, but I find it nearly
impossible to believe that the band isn't worse off (at least to these
ears).
-walt davis
adamlo...@my-deja.com
walter...@unc.edu (Walter Davis) wrote:
> But I do have concerns about the Ware quartet. Here, I think Ibarra
>was the perfect drummer for that band, the right mix of power,
>subtlety, intriguing sounds/techniques. (Others of course prefer
>Dickey or Edwards, presumably some will prefer the new guy) I
>certainly won't write them off without hearing the new guy, but I find
>it nearly impossible to believe that the band isn't worse off (at
>least to these ears).
Fair enough, but let's have the name of "the new guy" be known:
Guillermo E. Brown. I'm sorry to say that I can't give you too much of
the scoop on his background, other than I once saw him take part in a
dance/theater production for which Cooper-Moore wrote the music, and I
believe they have had a fairly consistent musical association.
Hopefully you'll get to hear Brown's playing sometime soon.
Cheers,
Adam.
gyps...@my-deja.com
And while you're at it also check out Rick's meticulous discographies of
Shipp, Crispell, Rivers, Workman, etc. etc.
Incidentally, for those of you who missed the gig that Ibarra did with
Sylvie Courvoisier and E. Kontomanue a few weeks back at Alterknit (and
I know y'all missed it because there were exactly 17 of us in
attendance)- Susie's duets with Sylvie furnished another example of her
amazing ability to totally integrate her playing into the music, instead
of just underpinning and/or soloing off it.
Same when she played with Parker and Leandre earlier this summer. I do
very keenly hope that the rift with Parker, whatever its roots, can be
mended, for the sake of the avant music community and all involved.
David
Steve Smith
asked what they're looking forward to in the coming season. Dave Douglas
states the following:
"The great drummer Susie Ibarra and her trio have made a new recording,
'Radiance,' for her own label, Hopscotch Records." (Presumably this is a
new recording by her trio with Charles Burnham and Cooper-Moore?)
You can read it for yourself at
http://www.nytimes.com/library/arts/091299ns-pop-talk.html
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
Marc Edwards
Thanks for the kind words. When I left the David S. Ware Quartet, remember
that the band wasn't working that much during my tenure. After leaving, the
gigs started pouring in. There are a number of folks that have not seen
yours truly. My last CD, "Red Sprites & Blue Jets" on Bob Rusch's CIMP
Record label feature tenor saxophonist, Sabir Mateen and bassist, Hilliard
Greene. This records shows how I can sound on a good night.
For the purpose of this discussion, as far as fan preferring me, Whit
Dickey, Susie, or the new drummer currently in the band, it would be hard
for many to make a fair comparison. Again, most did not see me with David S.
Ware, Matthew Shipp and William Parker. It was fun while it lasted, but, I
had to move on.
Rumors are always going to crop up one way or the other whenever someone
leaves a band. I hope Susie can maintain a steady momentum. I wish the new
drummer, all the best.
For the time being, it may be a while before I start making public
appearances. That will depend on other things going on in my life.
Marc Edwards
Walter Davis wrote:
> In article <7r3ec3$ntf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> adamlo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >I guess my point is that it seems like people are writing off one of
> >the best bands in town without having even heard the amazing sounds
> >that are going down NOW.
> >
> I certainly can't see why anyone would write off Little Huey -- drummers
> are mighty important to big bands, but they don't overshadow the other
> 12 or so musicians. And Andrew is a hell of a drummer.
>
> Now I will admit to thinking that In Order to Survive as a trio (as they
> played recently in DC) has to be radically different than as a quartet
> with Ibarra, maybe so much so that comparisons become difficult -- if
> in fact she's left the band which I don't know. But if they pick up a
> new drummer, I don't foresee major problems.
>
> But I do have concerns about the Ware quartet. Here, I think Ibarra was
> the perfect drummer for that band, the right mix of power, subtlety,
> intriguing sounds/techniques. (Others of course prefer Dickey or
> Edwards, presumably some will prefer the new guy) I certainly won't
> write them off without hearing the new guy, but I find it nearly
> impossible to believe that the band isn't worse off (at least to these
> ears).
>
> -walt davis
Steve Smith
> Thanks for the kind words. When I left the David S. Ware Quartet, remember
> that the band wasn't working that much during my tenure. After leaving, the
> gigs started pouring in. There are a number of folks that have not seen
> yours truly.
Including me, and I wish I had. I greatly enjoyed the DSW recordings on which
you performed, as well as Cecil Taylor's 'Dark to Themselves,' and later had the
opportunity to hear you play live with Charles Gayle in Houston. It was a
tremendous pleasure. Thanks for checking in and for mentioning your new disc -
I'll have to check that out soon.
Steve Smith
ssmi...@sprynet.com
NP - "Win Ben Stein's Money"
Marc Edwards
How are you? Hurricane Floyd is slowly approaching the Big Apple. Well, all things
considered, we could use the rain. There has been a severe drought throughout most
of the Northeast quadrant.
I remember the show in Houston. The audience was very warm, friendly, and receptive
to the music. That's make a big difference to the musicians. An artist tunes in to
the audience;this has a major bearing on the type of show the you will hear. Charles
Gayle sounded great even though he was a little under the weather. With strong
support from bassist, Vattel Cherry, that was a good night for music.
Your comments proves what I was telling Walter. The "Dark To Themselves" recording
is the single record that my name is connected with in the minds of the writers,
critics, and fans. Today, David is working far more than he did than when we were
struggling. Things have gotten better for him, but, not necessarily for me. I
believe my day will come although it won't happen until we get into the next
millennium. Cheers.
Marc Edwards
gyps...@my-deja.com
Marc Edwards <mar...@asan.com> wrote:
> Your comments proves what I was telling Walter. The "Dark To
Themselves" recording
> is the single record that my name is connected with in the minds of
the writers,
> critics, and fans.
Well, I'd like to put in a plug for "Black Queen" (1990) - Marc Edwards
Quartet with Rob Brown, Matthew Shipp, and Fred Hopkins (plus Laverne
Lawrence, spoken words). A very fine record (and the best way to
experience a quadratic equation that I know of!)
fgr...@my-deja.com
give me opinions of McIntyre as a musician and whether
the stuff on Steeple Chase is any good?
-fabio
Marc Edwards
Again, I appreciate the sentiments however, you are in the minority. What
I've discovered is that the "Black Queen" recording appeals more to the New
Age audience and people who don't normally listen to Free Jazz. Folks who
meditate, do hatha yoga, and/or other New Age practices love the record.
Hard core fans of the music, seem to feel that we didn't get the job done.
That's not true. We wanted to make a statement about Spiritually. This is a
subject that you will be hearing more about in the next millennium. Certain
changes in will take place resulting in Higher Consciousness for everyone -
that is, for those who want the change to take place. If not, no problem.
Everyone's choices will be respected whatever that decision may be.
I wish more people would give Black Queen a chance. This is the type of
record that you put on and go about your business. Fans have stated that
they play the record over and over. At first I was skeptical. After the
same comments kept streaming in from different part of the globe, I
realized that something was happening. For those of you that are
interested, you can get the CD from Cadence Magazine Record Sales. They're
on the web at www.cadencebuilding.com JazzNow and Force Exposure also
carry the CD. Both are on the web - use a search engine.
Thanks for comments, David, but again, I cannot stress enough that many of
the fans prefer "Dark To Themselves" or "Time & Space Vol. 1," ALPHA
PHONICS, APCD2. This same group of hard core fans also seem to like my
record on CIMP Records, "Red Sprites & Blue Jets," CIMP #128. These CDs are
available from Cadence. Take Care.
Marc Edwards
gyps...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <37E105A5...@asan.com>,
> Marc Edwards <mar...@asan.com> wrote:
>
> > Your comments proves what I was telling Walter. The "Dark To
> Themselves" recording
> > is the single record that my name is connected with in the minds of
> the writers,
> > critics, and fans.
>
> Well, I'd like to put in a plug for "Black Queen" (1990) - Marc Edwards
> Quartet with Rob Brown, Matthew Shipp, and Fred Hopkins (plus Laverne
> Lawrence, spoken words). A very fine record (and the best way to
> experience a quadratic equation that I know of!)
>
> David
>