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Lennon's prophecies of his death
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John Doherty
Jan 7, 2012, 9:35:09 AM1/7/12
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I noticed recently that in the unreleased "Watching Rainbows" from the
Get Back sessions, Lennon is clearly singing "shoot me" as a repeating
chorus.
The song itself never went anywhere, and in fact, this unfinished song
in progress is only starting to grow on me now.
But JL must have liked the idea, because he brought that phrase into
the next sessions, Abbey Road. On "Come Together", discretely woven
into Ringo's drum hit that opens up the song, (and repeated
throughout), Lennon is singing this strange phrase that foretells his
own horrible end 11 years later. I never knew he was singing this
until the
Combined with the direct prophecy in "Ballad of John and Yoko" that
"the way things are goin' they're gonna crucify me", it's a bit
eerie.
Lennon was also quoted as saying that it's strange that "all the great
peacemakers die violently" at a time that he was becoming known as one
of the great peacemakers.
And in one of the most prophetic things Lennon recorded, in the slow
demo tune he recorded, "Dear John", Lennon coaches himself "the race
is over/ you won" (in the midst of some odd non sensical lyrics "have
a snack /wash your mother's back").
It was recorded in November 1980, and I heard it was the last known
demo he worked on at a time when promoting "Double Fantasy" was the
priority.
It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
Get Back sessions, Lennon is clearly singing "shoot me" as a repeating
chorus.
The song itself never went anywhere, and in fact, this unfinished song
in progress is only starting to grow on me now.
But JL must have liked the idea, because he brought that phrase into
the next sessions, Abbey Road. On "Come Together", discretely woven
into Ringo's drum hit that opens up the song, (and repeated
throughout), Lennon is singing this strange phrase that foretells his
own horrible end 11 years later. I never knew he was singing this
until the
Combined with the direct prophecy in "Ballad of John and Yoko" that
"the way things are goin' they're gonna crucify me", it's a bit
eerie.
Lennon was also quoted as saying that it's strange that "all the great
peacemakers die violently" at a time that he was becoming known as one
of the great peacemakers.
And in one of the most prophetic things Lennon recorded, in the slow
demo tune he recorded, "Dear John", Lennon coaches himself "the race
is over/ you won" (in the midst of some odd non sensical lyrics "have
a snack /wash your mother's back").
It was recorded in November 1980, and I heard it was the last known
demo he worked on at a time when promoting "Double Fantasy" was the
priority.
It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
marcus
Jan 7, 2012, 10:31:11 AM1/7/12
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John Doherty
Jan 7, 2012, 1:07:05 PM1/7/12
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inhaled. Our Johnny L was nothing if not a merry punster, and loved
lyrics with multiple meanings. I'm sure he was aware of the other one,
as well.
"Happiness is a Warm Gun" runs the gamut from craving your fix to
explicit killing with a pistol, though in that he's not the intended
victim, he's the ironic narrator and presumably the shooter .
Fattuchus
Jan 7, 2012, 4:25:39 PM1/7/12
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> It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
IMO one of John's most prophetic moments is the song "I'm Scared." He
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
sings, "Hatred and jealousy, gonna be the death of me,
I guess I knew it right from the start . . ." Sadly, he was right.
Also, in Nobody Loves You he sings, "Everybody loves you when your six
feet in the ground."
Frank from Deeeetroit
Jan 7, 2012, 5:10:50 PM1/7/12
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abe slaney
Jan 7, 2012, 6:03:00 PM1/7/12
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> It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
I remember staying up listening to WNEW that night and "I'm Losing
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
You" came on - it was quite eerie to hear him singing "stop the
bleeding now" in a song that I don't think I'd heard before that.
Frank from Deeeetroit
Jan 7, 2012, 8:57:39 PM1/7/12
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THAT night. Got to work to hear to sad news. We had a Korean War
veteran Shift Lieutenant as the boss. Deeeetroit radio WRIF DJ's were
in tears, could not maintain their composure, the dedicated the night
to John and Beatles music. The boss turned WRIF off, said "we are not
going to listen the that shit all night."
Could not leave, but the night dragged, knowing they were playing non-
stop John and Beatles music all night.
Frank
topazgalaxy
Jan 7, 2012, 10:57:24 PM1/7/12
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On Jan 7, 9:35 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
prophesy is the song that the Rutles did called Questionaire.
They are imitating John's style of singing lead, and one of the
lyrics in this song (being a song about a questionaire) is about
gun control
http://youtu.be/UXqTGxOjzI4
"Tell me what you think about how easy it can be to buy a gun" he
sings at about 2:25. Considering how John died, that is quite a
line.
The song combines elements of several John Lennon songs into one.
topazgalaxy
Jan 7, 2012, 10:59:09 PM1/7/12
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On Jan 7, 6:03 pm, abe slaney <abesla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
makes me very sad to think about it.
Fattuchus
Jan 8, 2012, 6:03:13 AM1/8/12
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On Jan 7, 8:57 pm, Frank from Deeeetroit <dadurwe...@voyager.net>
wrote:
emotional pain. He acknowledged he had "issues."
wrote:
> On Jan 7, 6:03 pm, abe slaney <abesla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 7, 9:35 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> > > It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> > > the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> > > that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
>
> > I remember staying up listening to WNEW that night and "I'm Losing
> > You" came on - it was quite eerie to hear him singing "stop the
> > bleeding now" in a song that I don't think I'd heard before that.
My interpretation of that line is that John was singing about
>
> > On Jan 7, 9:35 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> > > It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> > > the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> > > that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
>
> > I remember staying up listening to WNEW that night and "I'm Losing
> > You" came on - it was quite eerie to hear him singing "stop the
> > bleeding now" in a song that I don't think I'd heard before that.
emotional pain. He acknowledged he had "issues."
jtees4
Jan 9, 2012, 8:51:20 AM1/9/12
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die, means little now...but might look interesting after I die. It's
total BS....everyone writes about dying at some point.
I love JL, but he wasn't Nostradamus....in fact neither was
Nostradamus.
John Doherty
Jan 9, 2012, 9:41:45 AM1/9/12
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On Jan 9, 8:51 am, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have about 5 songs that would look eerily like I knew I was going to
> die, means little now...but might look interesting after I die. It's
> total BS....everyone writes about dying at some point.
> I love JL, but he wasn't Nostradamus....in fact neither was
> Nostradamus.
OK, then, let's recap:
> I have about 5 songs that would look eerily like I knew I was going to
> die, means little now...but might look interesting after I die. It's
> total BS....everyone writes about dying at some point.
> I love JL, but he wasn't Nostradamus....in fact neither was
> Nostradamus.
In his songwriting, Lennon wrote:
1.) In "Happiness is a Warm Gun", he (mockingly) celebrates the love
of a gun owner for shooting something or someone to death as a doo wop
song.
2.) in both "Come Together" and the unreleased "Watching Rainbows", he
sings a repeating line of "shoot me/shoot me/shoot me"
3.) In the "Ballad of John & Yoko" , he sang "They're gonna crucify
me" anticipating that they (the media? his public?) would eventually
consume him literally in a violent death
4.) In "Scared" he sings "hatred and jealousy, gonna be the death of
me".
5.) In his posthumous record, Milk & Honey, he tells us he's "living
on Borrowed Time".
6.) In the unreleased "Help Me To Help Myself", Lennon sings "I tried
so hard to stay alive, but the Angel of Destruction keeps on hounding
me all around..."
7.) In "I'm Losing You" he tells us to "stop the bleeding now".
8.) In the very last demo he recorded, "Dear John" he reassures
himself that "the race is over/ you won".
9.) He spoke more than once about the tendency of peace activists to
die horrible violent death, while working as one.
So, in work published by the time of his death, I count 6 references
to violent death by gunfire, or his own imminent death by violence
("I'm Losing You" is the only "reach" in this list, where in context
he's talking clearly about emotional pain and it just now sounds eerie
in context). Then there are these other three references in work not
yet published at the time of his death. I'm sure I'm overlooking some
others.
You might well have a list of death references in your own work. But
for the sake of analysis that we can all share, contrast this list
with the work of Paul McCartney or George Harrison. I can't think of a
single thing from Paul's. George sang of the Art of Dying, but I never
felt he was referencing a violent death-- though he did survive a
violent attack, even if cancer ultimately killed him.
If you think this list is "total BS", cite some similar themes in GH
or PM's work.
ermitano
Jan 9, 2012, 10:57:01 AM1/9/12
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could crucify anyone by judging and inventing on first page.
borrowed time?? not necessarily he's talking about he's goin to die,
but in fact this life could be a borrowed time for everyone.
"stop the bleeding" i always have think that line as he's asking to
someone else to stop complaining or stop crying for all.
"the race is over, you won" .. eeer.. could be about any battle that
he was dealing with.
the others references to guns and shootings, ok, those are strange
coincidences, but..
even we can find references to guns, shootings and death in paul's
song.
- Live and Let Die
- Oh Woman, Oh Why... "Oh woman, oh why (...)what have I done (...)
where did you get that gun?.
- My Soul.... "Life spinning round, At a blistering pace, I've been
shot From a gun"
- Soily... "Action painter, Hitler's son, And a commie with a tommy
gun."
- Flaming Pie.. "Shooting stars from a purple sky"
- Venus And Mars/Rock Show... In my green metal suit I'm preparing to
shoot up the City"
in a very quickly research i found 7 references to shootings and death
in paul's songs.
my guess is this: he's going to be "shot from a gun" like others
"stars", by a guy named "tommy", who "get that gun" from a woman in
"green metal suit" who was saying "let die".
John Doherty
Jan 9, 2012, 3:13:49 PM1/9/12
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On Jan 9, 10:57 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "crucify" him could be a mere metaphor. i think he meant the press
> could crucify anyone by judging and inventing on first page.
the other is contained within it. By this time he had suffered the
backlash (& death threats) about the Jesus remarks, and was probably
anticipating more for comapring himself to Christ.
>
> borrowed time?? not necessarily he's talking about he's goin to die,
> but in fact this life could be a borrowed time for everyone.
The tone of the song is pretty sunny, but the context in english is
> borrowed time?? not necessarily he's talking about he's goin to die,
> but in fact this life could be a borrowed time for everyone.
someone who is living well past the point everyone assumed he would.
>
> "stop the bleeding" i always have think that line as he's asking to
> someone else to stop complaining or stop crying for all.
It's clear in the lyric he's the wonded party:
> "stop the bleeding" i always have think that line as he's asking to
> someone else to stop complaining or stop crying for all.
"So what the hell am I supposed to do?
Just put a bandaid on it?
And stop the bleeding now
Stop the bleeding now "
>
> "the race is over, you won" .. eeer.. could be about any battle that
> he was dealing with.
In context, in that song, it sounds more comprehensive, like it's
> "the race is over, you won" .. eeer.. could be about any battle that
> he was dealing with.
life's race he's speaking of.
>
> the others references to guns and shootings, ok, those are strange
> coincidences, but..
>
> even we can find references to guns, shootings and death in paul's
> song.
>
> - Live and Let Die
That song was a commission for a Bond film, hence the explosions,
> the others references to guns and shootings, ok, those are strange
> coincidences, but..
>
> even we can find references to guns, shootings and death in paul's
> song.
>
> - Live and Let Die
etc.
>
> - Oh Woman, Oh Why... "Oh woman, oh why (...)what have I done (...)
> where did you get that gun?.
This one counts.
> - Oh Woman, Oh Why... "Oh woman, oh why (...)what have I done (...)
> where did you get that gun?.
>
> - My Soul.... "Life spinning round, At a blistering pace, I've been
> shot From a gun"
Here he seems to be the bullet, not the victim.
> - My Soul.... "Life spinning round, At a blistering pace, I've been
> shot From a gun"
>
> - Soily... "Action painter, Hitler's son, And a commie with a tommy
> gun."
In this song, McCartney seems to be rattling off a list of
> - Soily... "Action painter, Hitler's son, And a commie with a tommy
> gun."
deficiencies in his audience, and each is only one of many grotesques,
and not a perceived threat to him more than anyone else.
>
> - Flaming Pie.. "Shooting stars from a purple sky"
That's about meteorites.
> - Flaming Pie.. "Shooting stars from a purple sky"
>
> - Venus And Mars/Rock Show... In my green metal suit I'm preparing to
> shoot up the City"
That's novel writer Paul, giving us a cartoony scenario. True to form,
> - Venus And Mars/Rock Show... In my green metal suit I'm preparing to
> shoot up the City"
McCartney writes from imagination while Lennon writes his life, more
often than not. And that shows in this list. Great list though, even
if only one seems to list a threat to himself.
Skokiaan
Jan 9, 2012, 4:40:52 PM1/9/12
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people who write, sing or talk about death eventually die.
Skokiaan
Jan 9, 2012, 4:42:08 PM1/9/12
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On Jan 9, 10:57 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
Now I'm going to have to cut back on my McCartney concerts.....
rwalker
Jan 9, 2012, 5:48:38 PM1/9/12
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On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:42:08 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skok...@aol.com>
wrote:
>Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head . . . .
wrote:
>Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
John Doherty
Jan 9, 2012, 7:20:37 PM1/9/12
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> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:42:08 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skoki...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
>
>
> >Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
>
On Jan 9, 5:48 pm, rwalker <rwal...@despammed.com> wrote:
> Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head . . . .
Maxwell is a great cite for Macca, and for those that might not know,
> Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head . . . .
it was Paul's reaction to Manson's reaction to the White Album.
So yep, a song about murder, but reactive and not anticipatory.
brilton
Jan 9, 2012, 8:21:16 PM1/9/12
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On 10/01/12 8:20 AM, John Doherty wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:42:08 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan<skoki...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
>>
>
> On Jan 9, 5:48 pm, rwalker<rwal...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>> Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head . . . .
>
> Maxwell is a great cite for Macca, and for those that might not know,
> it was Paul's reaction to Manson's reaction to the White Album.
That's just not right at all, sorry. Clearly, the song was near-complete
>
>> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:42:08 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan<skoki...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nah. You've shown that Paul will eventually become a mass murderer.
>>
>
> On Jan 9, 5:48 pm, rwalker<rwal...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>> Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head . . . .
>
> Maxwell is a great cite for Macca, and for those that might not know,
> it was Paul's reaction to Manson's reaction to the White Album.
as of at least January 1969, whereas the Manson murders occurred on
August 8 and 9, 1969.
> So yep, a song about murder, but reactive and not anticipatory.
RichL
Jan 9, 2012, 8:28:38 PM1/9/12
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"brilton" <not...@yacht.net> wrote in message
news:koMOq.1381$v14...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
Hmmmm.
"Complete" as in "written" but not "recorded":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_Silver_Hammer
"The song was written in October 1968, intended for the album The Beatles,
but missed off due to time constraints."
But later...
"Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
established well beforehand.
news:koMOq.1381$v14...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
"Complete" as in "written" but not "recorded":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_Silver_Hammer
"The song was written in October 1968, intended for the album The Beatles,
but missed off due to time constraints."
But later...
"Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
established well beforehand.
brilton
Jan 9, 2012, 8:41:38 PM1/9/12
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>> That's just not right at all, sorry. Clearly, the song was
>> near-complete as of at least January 1969, whereas the Manson murders
>> occurred on August 8 and 9, 1969.
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> "Complete" as in "written" but not "recorded":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_Silver_Hammer
>
> "The song was written in October 1968, intended for the album The
> Beatles, but missed off due to time constraints."
>
> But later...
>
> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response.
> Highly doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to
> have been established well beforehand.
Have you heard the versions recorded at Twickenham? The lyrics are
>> near-complete as of at least January 1969, whereas the Manson murders
>> occurred on August 8 and 9, 1969.
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> "Complete" as in "written" but not "recorded":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_Silver_Hammer
>
> "The song was written in October 1968, intended for the album The
> Beatles, but missed off due to time constraints."
>
> But later...
>
> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response.
> Highly doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to
> have been established well beforehand.
substantially complete for verse one and two, and he sings a third verse
that is vaguely about a court case. So it was pretty much there.
UsurperTom
Jan 10, 2012, 12:30:12 AM1/10/12
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> I count 6 references to violent death by gunfire
If you're into coincidences, if you play "Kiss Kiss Kiss," you hear
the sound of a siren and Yoko says, "I shot John Lennon."
ermitano
Jan 10, 2012, 1:58:56 AM1/10/12
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the same interpretation of the song, i can't associate that line to
his murder.
i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
topics.
and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
their songs.
abe slaney
Jan 10, 2012, 3:25:10 AM1/10/12
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On Jan 10, 1:58 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
> think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
> topics.
> and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
> lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
> could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
> their songs.
I don't believe that Lennon "predicted" his death or had any
> i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
> think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
> topics.
> and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
> lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
> could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
> their songs.
premonitions about it. I do think that he was a guy who was somewhat
fascinated with the extremes of violence and peace in society, as well
as with death itself, with his numerous references to Hitler and
Christ, the Nazis and the Buddhists, the assassinations of the
Kennedys and MLK, comments he made about his mother and Epstein's
death, etc. And if you had told him he too would be shot, I honestly
don't think he would have been surprised by that. Not happy, but not
surprised. The Beatles all said that there were times that they
genuinely feared for their lives, and I think Lennon knew that he was
both the most beloved and most hated of the four. There's no question
that that knowledge and his own semi-morbid fascinations found their
way into his songwriting.
John Doherty
Jan 10, 2012, 8:15:48 AM1/10/12
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On Jan 9, 8:28 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "brilton" <notl...@yacht.net> wrote in message
Well, never too late to learn something about the Beatles I guess. I
don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
scenario.
> "brilton" <notl...@yacht.net> wrote in message
don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
scenario.
brilton
Jan 10, 2012, 9:23:54 AM1/10/12
to
I find equally disturbing, if not more so. Take the ending of "Four And
Twenty Blackbirds" for instance. But maybe that's because I re-seen
Hitchcock's "The Birds" recently.
jtees4
Jan 10, 2012, 11:09:51 AM1/10/12
to
specifically in GH or PM's work. I bet there is one reference for each
of them though I'm not familiar enough with their work to know for
sure. Anyone??? Lennon was a darker person in his writing I'm sure
you'll agree. It really is not anything more than that IMHO. I tend to
write the same way. In 1975 I wrote a song about being in the hospital
with some descriptive lines (I had never been in the hospital except
to be born). In 2004 I was in the hospital and very sick....some of
the lines in my song were amazingly accurate...BUT that doesn't mean
anything really. That is no proof that I was seeing my own future.
It's no different just because JL was famous. I also wrote songs about
me dying...hasn't happened yet (though I came close)....I will die
someday...will that make me psychic?
jtees4
Jan 10, 2012, 11:14:06 AM1/10/12
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son always was afraid of clowns....still is but won't admit it. I
recently recordec and showed him the USPS commercial where the little
clown doll moves (Priority Mail)...great commercial...I'm pretty sure
he peed his pants a bit.
Skokiaan
Jan 10, 2012, 1:12:42 PM1/10/12
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The Lone Star
Jan 10, 2012, 5:27:10 PM1/10/12
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All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
I'm going to die.
Hey, look at me...
I'm a prophet!
I'm going to die.
Hey, look at me...
I'm a prophet!
Lisi Peteras
Jan 10, 2012, 6:02:51 PM1/10/12
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On 1/10/2012 5:27 PM, The Lone Star wrote:
> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> I'm going to die.
Believe me, we can't wait for that great day, douchebag.
> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> I'm going to die.
brilton
Jan 10, 2012, 6:43:02 PM1/10/12
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it to "re-seen", but forgot to change "I" to "I've". Just mangling the
languinge for fun.
John Doherty
Jan 10, 2012, 8:54:33 PM1/10/12
to
In two different songs, he sings "shoot me" as a refrain.
In one song he said "they're gonna crucify me".
In his posthumous album, he sings that he's "living on Borrowed Time"
In another song he says ""I tried so hard to stay alive, but the Angel
of Destruction keeps on hounding me all around..."
That's four strong hints of an early death (5 if you count the double
"shoot me"); four of them speak to a violent early death.
They are all in the first person, John Lennon speaking of his personal
experience, or intuition, as he named another song.
And in the very last song he wrote, less than a month before he was
murdered, he tells himself that "the race is over/ you won".
So maybe you prefer to reduce those cites to Lennon saying "I'm going
to die eventually, like everyone else" but that's not what he said,
and that is not what I'm writing about.
The Lone Star
Jan 10, 2012, 10:24:32 PM1/10/12
to
"Close your eyes
And I'll kiss you
Tomorrow I'll miss you
Remember I'll always be true."
topazgalaxy
Jan 10, 2012, 11:43:31 PM1/10/12
to
On Jan 10, 9:23 am, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
that you mention it
Mack A. Damia
Jan 11, 2012, 12:08:53 AM1/11/12
to
- that "Ring Around the Rosie" originated during the time of the Black
Death - the bubonic plague.
The first symptoms were red rings on the body that formed into bubos
(huge boils, I think).
A pocketful of posies refers to the practice of putting flowers in and
around the bodies of the victims to mask the terrible odor.
Achoo - achoo, we all fall down refers to another of the early
symptoms - sneezing.
Skokiaan
Jan 11, 2012, 9:26:51 AM1/11/12
to
On Jan 10, 8:54 pm, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 5:27 pm, The Lone Star <from_me_to_...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> > I'm going to die.
>
> > Hey, look at me...
>
> > I'm a prophet!
>
> But Lennon did more than predict that he would die.
>
> In two different songs, he sings "shoot me" as a refrain.
Just a coincidence.
> On Jan 10, 5:27 pm, The Lone Star <from_me_to_...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> > I'm going to die.
>
> > Hey, look at me...
>
> > I'm a prophet!
>
> But Lennon did more than predict that he would die.
>
> In two different songs, he sings "shoot me" as a refrain.
> In one song he said "they're gonna crucify me".
that in context (context is EVERYTHING) he was using crucifixion as a
metafor for persecution by the press, gov't, etc.
> In his posthumous album, he sings that he's "living on Borrowed Time"
same time.
> In another song he says ""I tried so hard to stay alive, but the Angel
> of Destruction keeps on hounding me all around..."
> And in the very last song he wrote, less than a month before he was
> murdered, he tells himself that "the race is over/ you won".
quoted, then it is just about a race. In context (there's that word
again), Lennon uses race as a metaphor for struggle or competition,
not life.
> So maybe you prefer to reduce those cites to Lennon saying "I'm going
> to die eventually, like everyone else" but that's not what he said,
> and that is not what I'm writing about.
wounds."
Skokiaan
Jan 11, 2012, 9:16:35 AM1/11/12
to
gemjack
Jan 11, 2012, 10:06:20 AM1/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:16:35 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skok...@aol.com>
wrote:
Nope.
http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp
Bonus: Lennon/I am the Walrus used in the explanation at the end of
the debunk.
-gj
wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp
Bonus: Lennon/I am the Walrus used in the explanation at the end of
the debunk.
-gj
M C hammered
Jan 11, 2012, 10:36:53 AM1/11/12
to
On Jan 7, 9:35 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
> I noticed recently that in the unreleased "Watching Rainbows" from the
> Get Back sessions, Lennon is clearly singing "shoot me" as a repeating
> chorus.
>
> The song itself never went anywhere, and in fact, this unfinished song
> in progress is only starting to grow on me now.
>
> But JL must have liked the idea, because he brought that phrase into
> the next sessions, Abbey Road. On "Come Together", discretely woven
> into Ringo's drum hit that opens up the song, (and repeated
> throughout), Lennon is singing this strange phrase that foretells his
> own horrible end 11 years later. I never knew he was singing this
> until the
>
> Combined with the direct prophecy in "Ballad of John and Yoko" that
> "the way things are goin' they're gonna crucify me", it's a bit
> eerie.
>
> Lennon was also quoted as saying that it's strange that "all the great
> peacemakers die violently" at a time that he was becoming known as one
> of the great peacemakers.
>
> And in one of the most prophetic things Lennon recorded, in the slow
> demo tune he recorded, "Dear John", Lennon coaches himself "the race
> is over/ you won" (in the midst of some odd non sensical lyrics "have
> a snack /wash your mother's back").
>
> It was recorded in November 1980, and I heard it was the last known
> demo he worked on at a time when promoting "Double Fantasy" was the
> priority.
>
> It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
Yes John know'd what was gonna happen...he had professies,
premonitchim's, vision's, telepathic mesages, ect. Also dont fergit,
the Yoke had all her astrologer's card reada's, psychic's an so foth.
So they DEFFINATELY knew.
Also ermemba, what was Johns last wish?? Ta work on Yoke's ercodin,
"Walkin on Thin Ice". Hmm, Mista Charlie wonda's if that song also
contained knowledge of what was soon (like, just a few hours lata)
gonna happen...
They knew, fokes, they knew. And they seddit with their own
words...just read the Playboy interview fokes....Yoke said they was
"like mediums"....not medium as in between small (like Johns pecka)
and lodge (like Yokes durian boob's), but medium as in, gets the
message...the medium IS the message fer Gobsakes!!
Nuff said
> I noticed recently that in the unreleased "Watching Rainbows" from the
> Get Back sessions, Lennon is clearly singing "shoot me" as a repeating
> chorus.
>
> The song itself never went anywhere, and in fact, this unfinished song
> in progress is only starting to grow on me now.
>
> But JL must have liked the idea, because he brought that phrase into
> the next sessions, Abbey Road. On "Come Together", discretely woven
> into Ringo's drum hit that opens up the song, (and repeated
> throughout), Lennon is singing this strange phrase that foretells his
> own horrible end 11 years later. I never knew he was singing this
> until the
>
> Combined with the direct prophecy in "Ballad of John and Yoko" that
> "the way things are goin' they're gonna crucify me", it's a bit
> eerie.
>
> Lennon was also quoted as saying that it's strange that "all the great
> peacemakers die violently" at a time that he was becoming known as one
> of the great peacemakers.
>
> And in one of the most prophetic things Lennon recorded, in the slow
> demo tune he recorded, "Dear John", Lennon coaches himself "the race
> is over/ you won" (in the midst of some odd non sensical lyrics "have
> a snack /wash your mother's back").
>
> It was recorded in November 1980, and I heard it was the last known
> demo he worked on at a time when promoting "Double Fantasy" was the
> priority.
>
> It makes me wonder if the gift of songwriting genius he had touched on
> the "music of the spheres", and allowed him some glimpse of the end
> that was coming, (or that was always there waiting for him?).
Yes John know'd what was gonna happen...he had professies,
premonitchim's, vision's, telepathic mesages, ect. Also dont fergit,
the Yoke had all her astrologer's card reada's, psychic's an so foth.
So they DEFFINATELY knew.
Also ermemba, what was Johns last wish?? Ta work on Yoke's ercodin,
"Walkin on Thin Ice". Hmm, Mista Charlie wonda's if that song also
contained knowledge of what was soon (like, just a few hours lata)
gonna happen...
They knew, fokes, they knew. And they seddit with their own
words...just read the Playboy interview fokes....Yoke said they was
"like mediums"....not medium as in between small (like Johns pecka)
and lodge (like Yokes durian boob's), but medium as in, gets the
message...the medium IS the message fer Gobsakes!!
Nuff said
Skokiaan
Jan 11, 2012, 11:35:24 AM1/11/12
to
On Jan 11, 10:06 am, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:16:35 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skoki...@aol.com>
called "Strange Stories & Amazing Facts" published by Reader's Digest
in the late 70's. I read it then as a kid and had no reason to doubt
the book's claim....or check Snopes.
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:16:35 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skoki...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 10, 11:43 pm, topazgalaxy <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 10, 9:23 am, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
>
> >> > On 10/01/12 9:15 PM, John Doherty wrote:
>
> >> > > On Jan 9, 8:28 pm, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> >> > >> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> >> > >> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
> >> > >> doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
> >> > >> established well beforehand.
>
> >> > > Well, never too late to learn something about the Beatles I guess. I
> >> > > don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
> >> > > for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
> >> > > scenario.
>
> >> > It's all so jolly though. Still, there are even some nursery rhymes that
> >> > I find equally disturbing, if not more so. Take the ending of "Four And
> >> > Twenty Blackbirds" for instance. But maybe that's because I re-seen
> >> > Hitchcock's "The Birds" recently.
>
> >> "Ring Around the Rosie" isn't really a happy little jingle either now
> >> that you mention it
>
> >It's about the Black Plague.
>
> Nope.http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 10, 11:43 pm, topazgalaxy <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 10, 9:23 am, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
>
> >> > On 10/01/12 9:15 PM, John Doherty wrote:
>
> >> > > On Jan 9, 8:28 pm, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> >> > >> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> >> > >> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
> >> > >> doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
> >> > >> established well beforehand.
>
> >> > > Well, never too late to learn something about the Beatles I guess. I
> >> > > don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
> >> > > for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
> >> > > scenario.
>
> >> > It's all so jolly though. Still, there are even some nursery rhymes that
> >> > I find equally disturbing, if not more so. Take the ending of "Four And
> >> > Twenty Blackbirds" for instance. But maybe that's because I re-seen
> >> > Hitchcock's "The Birds" recently.
>
> >> "Ring Around the Rosie" isn't really a happy little jingle either now
> >> that you mention it
>
> >It's about the Black Plague.
>
>
> Bonus: Lennon/I am the Walrus used in the explanation at the end of
> the debunk.
>
> -gj
Insteresting. My source for it being about the Plague was a book
> Bonus: Lennon/I am the Walrus used in the explanation at the end of
> the debunk.
>
> -gj
called "Strange Stories & Amazing Facts" published by Reader's Digest
in the late 70's. I read it then as a kid and had no reason to doubt
the book's claim....or check Snopes.
Mack A. Damia
Jan 11, 2012, 11:46:16 AM1/11/12
to
his non-fiction book ' The Plague and the Fire. Some people are
sceptical of the plague interpretations of this rhyme, many stating
that words in the rhyme cannot be found in Middle English. The
sceptics must be referring to the later version of the rhyme, possibly
with American origins, the English version is "Ring a ring o' rosies"
using the Middle English "o" as a shortening of the word "of". The
written word " posies" is first mentioned in a poem called
'Prothalamion or A Spousal Verse' by Edmund Spenser (1552-1599). We
believe that this addresses the views of the sceptics."
http://www.rhymes.org.uk/ring_around_the_rosy.htm
In keeping an open mind about the claim, one must realize that there
were differet periods of the plague throughout history. The major
outbreak took place in the mid-14th century and killed almost half of
Europe. It originated in the Orient and spread like wildfire through
trade and commerce. Unfortunately, a scapegoat had to be found, and
in many cases, the Jews were targeted.
The Great Plague of Seville (1647), the Great Plague of London
(1665–1666), the Great Plague of Vienna (1679), and the Great Plague
of Marseille (1720), were the last major outbreaks of the bubonic
plague in Europe.
The plague resurfaced in the mid-19th century; like the Black Death,
the Third Pandemic began in Central Asia. The disease killed millions
in China and India — a British colony at the time — and then spread
worldwide. The outbreak continued into the early 20th century. In
1897, the city of Pune in India was severely affected by the outbreak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague
So the truth will never be known as the nursery rhyme may have
originated in a non-English speaking country and then roughly
traslated in the 18th Century. Snopes doesn't necessarily have the
final authorative word on the issue.
--
gemjack
Jan 11, 2012, 12:52:53 PM1/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:35:24 -0800 (PST), Skokiaan <skok...@aol.com>
wrote:
Yeah, I thought the same thing for a long time, but like Mack is sort
of saying, snopes isn't the final say-so. The lyrics *could* have
been written long after the plague. I'm leaning toward 'not' though
if only because of the detailed analysis in that snopes link and what
wiki has to say about it. Bottom line for me is: I always hated that
game as a child.
-gj
wrote:
of saying, snopes isn't the final say-so. The lyrics *could* have
been written long after the plague. I'm leaning toward 'not' though
if only because of the detailed analysis in that snopes link and what
wiki has to say about it. Bottom line for me is: I always hated that
game as a child.
-gj
Mack A. Damia
Jan 11, 2012, 3:13:58 PM1/11/12
to
That way, you don't look like a fool if and when the truth comes out.
Too much controversy about it.
--
Lisi Peteras
Jan 11, 2012, 6:57:42 PM1/11/12
to
brilton
Jan 11, 2012, 7:06:09 PM1/11/12
to
On 11/01/12 10:26 PM, Skokiaan wrote:
>
> Lennon wasn't crucified. So this doesn't apply. Add to that the fact
> that in context (context is EVERYTHING) he was using crucifixion as a
> metafor for persecution by the press, gov't, etc.
"Metafor"? You're kidding, right?
>
> Lennon wasn't crucified. So this doesn't apply. Add to that the fact
> that in context (context is EVERYTHING) he was using crucifixion as a
> metafor for persecution by the press, gov't, etc.
topazgalaxy
Jan 11, 2012, 8:21:09 PM1/11/12
to
say "I met her for dinner") :)
How would they say that in Australia, mate?
Skokiaan
Jan 12, 2012, 9:46:27 AM1/12/12
to
On Jan 11, 7:06 pm, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
same post. Posting on little sleep should be outlawed.
The Lone Star
Jan 12, 2012, 11:31:17 AM1/12/12
to
Before you.
Perhaps after you.
jtees4
Jan 12, 2012, 4:46:38 PM1/12/12
to
Fattuchus
Jan 13, 2012, 8:14:05 AM1/13/12
to
On Jan 10, 11:14 am, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> he peed his pants a bit.-
Your son should avoid the movie IT.
Your son should avoid the movie IT.
Fattuchus
Jan 13, 2012, 8:23:57 AM1/13/12
to
peace and civil rights (like Ghandi and King) always get shot and he
would not want to be shot.
Furthermore, after John made his "Jesus" remark, the Beatles did
receive threats, their records were burned, there were loud protests
and "hatefests" in the American South, there were demonstrations by
the KKK, etc. I believe in the Beatles Anthology movie there is
mention that the Beatles were on tour in the US. Some joker exploded a
firecracker on or near the stage which startled the Beatles, and
Ringo, Paul and George all instinctively looked at John immediately to
see if he was OK.
I also heard a rare Lennon interview on the radio where he was asked
about the fuss over his Jesus remark, and he stated that he was
frightened by the whole incident.
Fattuchus
Jan 13, 2012, 8:12:47 AM1/13/12
to
On Jan 10, 3:25 am, abe slaney <abesla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 1:58 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
> > think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
> > topics.
> > and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
> > lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
> > could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
> > their songs.
>
> I don't believe that Lennon "predicted" his death or had any
> premonitions about it. I do think that he was a guy who was somewhat
> fascinated with the extremes of violence and peace in society, as well
> as with death itself, with his numerous references to Hitler and
> Christ, the Nazis and the Buddhists, the assassinations of the
> Kennedys and MLK, comments he made about his mother and Epstein's
> death, etc. And if you had told him he too would be shot, I honestly
> don't think he would have been surprised by that. Not happy, but not
> surprised. The Beatles all said that there were times that they
> genuinely feared for their lives, and I think Lennon knew that he was
> both the most beloved and most hated of the four. There's no question
> that that knowledge and his own semi-morbid fascinations found their
> way into his songwriting.
What a thoughtful, well written and sensitive post. Thanks abe.
> On Jan 10, 1:58 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
> > think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
> > topics.
> > and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
> > lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
> > could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
> > their songs.
>
> I don't believe that Lennon "predicted" his death or had any
> premonitions about it. I do think that he was a guy who was somewhat
> fascinated with the extremes of violence and peace in society, as well
> as with death itself, with his numerous references to Hitler and
> Christ, the Nazis and the Buddhists, the assassinations of the
> Kennedys and MLK, comments he made about his mother and Epstein's
> death, etc. And if you had told him he too would be shot, I honestly
> don't think he would have been surprised by that. Not happy, but not
> surprised. The Beatles all said that there were times that they
> genuinely feared for their lives, and I think Lennon knew that he was
> both the most beloved and most hated of the four. There's no question
> that that knowledge and his own semi-morbid fascinations found their
> way into his songwriting.
What a thoughtful, well written and sensitive post. Thanks abe.
John Doherty
Jan 13, 2012, 9:53:41 AM1/13/12
to
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 1:58 am, ermitano <maikelbur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > i don't believe lennon predicted his death and even the way it was, i
> > > think it was just a coincidence with some of his lyrics and usual
> > > topics.
> > > and looking for hidden meanings in the songs it's something that
> > > lennon and all the beatles hated from the early days, you know, we
> > > could even say that paul is dead because there are hidden messages in
> > > their songs.
>
> On Jan 10, 3:25 am, abe slaney <abesla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I don't believe that Lennon "predicted" his death or had any
> > premonitions about it. I do think that he was a guy who was somewhat
> > fascinated with the extremes of violence and peace in society, as well
> > as with death itself, with his numerous references to Hitler and
> > Christ, the Nazis and the Buddhists, the assassinations of the
> > Kennedys and MLK, comments he made about his mother and Epstein's
> > death, etc. And if you had told him he too would be shot, I honestly
> > don't think he would have been surprised by that. Not happy, but not
> > surprised. The Beatles all said that there were times that they
> > genuinely feared for their lives, and I think Lennon knew that he was
> > both the most beloved and most hated of the four.
became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
>There's no question
> > that that knowledge and his own semi-morbid fascinations found their
> > way into his songwriting.
>
Fattuchus
Jan 13, 2012, 8:17:35 AM1/13/12
to
ROTFLMAO!
abe slaney
Jan 13, 2012, 8:39:46 PM1/13/12
to
On Jan 13, 9:53 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
> Not during the group, or after, but only after hsi death. Lennon
> became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
> Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
> Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
> intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
Gotta disagree with you entirely on this. I also said he was the most
> Not during the group, or after, but only after hsi death. Lennon
> became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
> Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
> Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
> intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
hated. He was the kind of person who inspired strong feelings in
others, either way. I think the attachment that John's fans felt for
him came from a strong sense of identifying with him. I don't think
people identified with Paul in that way. But people felt like they
knew John Lennon - of course they did, he revealed so much about
himself in his songs - it was a much more intimate kind of fandom, and
when he died they grieved as they would a family member. This may be a
harsh thing to say, but I don't believe that Paul's death would have
had the "martyrdom" effect that Lennon's did. I'm not talking number
of fans, I'm talking about the depth of feeling. Remember that I said
he was both the most beloved and most hated of the group.
marcus
Jan 13, 2012, 10:53:23 PM1/13/12
to
On Jan 13, 8:39 pm, abe slaney <abesla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 13, 9:53 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> > Not during the group, or after, but only after hsi death. Lennon
> > became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
> > Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
> > Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
> > intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
>
> On Jan 13, 9:53 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> > Not during the group, or after, but only after hsi death. Lennon
> > became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
> > Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
> > Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
> > intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
>
He was the kind of person who inspired strong feelings in
> others, either way. I think the attachment that John's fans felt for
> him came from a strong sense of identifying with him. I don't think
> people identified with Paul in that way. But people felt like they
> knew John Lennon - of course they did, he revealed so much about
> himself in his songs - it was a much more intimate kind of fandom, and
> when he died they grieved as they would a family member. This may be a
> harsh thing to say, but I don't believe that Paul's death would have
> had the "martyrdom" effect that Lennon's did. I'm not talking number
> of fans, I'm talking about the depth of feeling. Remember that I said
> he was both the most beloved and most hated of the group.
You have just described me.
> others, either way. I think the attachment that John's fans felt for
> him came from a strong sense of identifying with him. I don't think
> people identified with Paul in that way. But people felt like they
> knew John Lennon - of course they did, he revealed so much about
> himself in his songs - it was a much more intimate kind of fandom, and
> when he died they grieved as they would a family member. This may be a
> harsh thing to say, but I don't believe that Paul's death would have
> had the "martyrdom" effect that Lennon's did. I'm not talking number
> of fans, I'm talking about the depth of feeling. Remember that I said
> he was both the most beloved and most hated of the group.
John Doherty
Jan 14, 2012, 4:36:13 PM1/14/12
to
> On Jan 13, 9:53 am, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> > Not during the group, or after, but only after hsi death. Lennon
> > became the "most beloved" after his murder when he was the martyred
> > Beatle.Everybody loves you when you're 6 foot in the ground. IIRC,
> > Paul was more popular than John as the cute fun Beatle. John was the
> > intellectual, and that's never been flavor of the month.
>
> Gotta disagree with you entirely on this. I also said he was the most
> hated.
During the tenure of the Beatles, John was the "cheeky one" or "the
> hated.
intellectual". He was also married, which probably helped curb his
appeal to the fans a little.
By contrast, Paul was the cheerful "cute one" who always played the
game of celebrity.
Are you basing your idea that Lennon was always the most popular
Beatle on any citation, or just a gut feeling? Because as many people
who liked his humor and intellect, there were plenty that were turned
off by many other things. And McCartney had none of those negatives.
It's possible that after the group split, with John's profile as
Peacenik in Chief, etc. he might have displaced him.
> He was the kind of person who inspired strong feelings in
> others, either way. I think the attachment that John's fans felt for
> him came from a strong sense of identifying with him. I don't think
> people identified with Paul in that way. But people felt like they
> knew John Lennon - of course they did, he revealed so much about
> himself in his songs - it was a much more intimate kind of fandom, and
> when he died they grieved as they would a family member.
upbringing helped build the bond.
> This may be a
> harsh thing to say, but I don't believe that Paul's death would have
> had the "martyrdom" effect that Lennon's did. I'm not talking number
> of fans, I'm talking about the depth of feeling. Remember that I said
> he was both the most beloved and most hated of the group.
without any of the hate. Googling, I came across this Wiki answer to
the question "Who was the most popular Beatle?
"Paul McCartney usually won the annual polls in the 1960s; John Lennon
finally won late in their career.
They all had tremendous success. Paul has probably done more gigs, but
to say which one was more famous is a matter of opinion. As their
popularity grew, each one had their own group of fans that liked them
personally, and screamed their names at the concerts. Ringo went on to
act and record, and had his own band, as did John. George had a great
solo career, and did benefit work for people, and invested in the
entertainment business. One fact is known that "Yesterday" by Paul
McCartney was covered more times than any record in history.
I'm not sure...! However, the untimely tragic death of John Lennon in
1980 - propelled major media interest and a new generation of fans for
this former Beatle. Thus, it may be argued that since 1980 - John
Lennon, has overtaken Paul McCartney in the popularity stakes."
And there was a 2009 poll which showed McCartney had overtaken John
again, but Lennon has not toured lately. ;-(
jtees4
Jan 14, 2012, 6:44:50 PM1/14/12
to
sees at least the trailer! Thanks for the tip.
He also was very afraid of Freddie Kruger as a kid...if he was bad I'd
say Freddie was watching through the window...and he was the best kid
ever for a bit.
Fattuchus
Jan 15, 2012, 5:02:44 AM1/15/12
to
is fearful of clowns?
BTW, the scary clown in IT is named "Pennywise." He's monstorous.
IIRC the movie is based on a Stephen King book.
Fattuchus
Jan 15, 2012, 5:10:00 AM1/15/12
to
On Jan 14, 6:44 pm, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_(novel)
Fattuchus
Jan 15, 2012, 5:06:14 AM1/15/12
to
On Jan 14, 6:44 pm, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 05:14:05 -0800 (PST), Fattuchus
>
>
>> Nursery rhymes can be very scary indeed. So can clowns. My 26 year old
> >> son always was afraid of clowns....still is but won't admit it. I
> >> recently recordec and showed him the USPS commercial where the little
> >> clown doll moves (Priority Mail)...great commercial...I'm pretty sure
> >> he peed his pants a bit.-
>
> >Your son should avoid the movie IT.
>
> I don't remember that one, I'll look it up and be sure to make sure he
> sees at least the trailer! Thanks for the tip.
> He also was very afraid of Freddie Kruger as a kid...if he was bad I'd
> say Freddie was watching through the window...and he was the best kid
> ever for a bit.-
> >> son always was afraid of clowns....still is but won't admit it. I
> >> recently recordec and showed him the USPS commercial where the little
> >> clown doll moves (Priority Mail)...great commercial...I'm pretty sure
> >> he peed his pants a bit.-
>
> >Your son should avoid the movie IT.
>
> I don't remember that one, I'll look it up and be sure to make sure he
> sees at least the trailer! Thanks for the tip.
> He also was very afraid of Freddie Kruger as a kid...if he was bad I'd
> say Freddie was watching through the window...and he was the best kid
FYI
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM5ODU3MTc5M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTY3MTEyMQ%40%40._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099864/&usg=__AbbkTIODO4Njm0QYEnulGNWkgug=&h=317&w=214&sz=17&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=mofUcED2-3r0eM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=80&ei=i6QST4TiFYL20gGEqdSpAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstephen%2Bking%2Bit%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM5ODU3MTc5M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTY3MTEyMQ%40%40._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099864/&usg=__AbbkTIODO4Njm0QYEnulGNWkgug=&h=317&w=214&sz=17&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=mofUcED2-3r0eM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=80&ei=i6QST4TiFYL20gGEqdSpAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstephen%2Bking%2Bit%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1
topazgalaxy
Jan 15, 2012, 7:42:05 AM1/15/12
to
On Jan 10, 11:14 am, jtees4 <jte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:23:54 +0800, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
> >On 10/01/12 9:15 PM, John Doherty wrote:
> >> On Jan 9, 8:28 pm, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> >>> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> >>> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
> >>> doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
> >>> established well beforehand.
>
> >> Well, never too late to learn something about the Beatles I guess. I
> >> don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
> >> for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
> >> scenario.
>
> >It's all so jolly though. Still, there are even some nursery rhymes that
> >I find equally disturbing, if not more so. Take the ending of "Four And
> >Twenty Blackbirds" for instance. But maybe that's because I re-seen
> >Hitchcock's "The Birds" recently.
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:23:54 +0800, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
> >On 10/01/12 9:15 PM, John Doherty wrote:
> >> On Jan 9, 8:28 pm, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "Recording began at Abbey Road Studios on 9 July 1969."
>
> >>> Still too early to have been influenced by Manson, but I suppose it's
> >>> conceivable that Paul changed the lyrics at some point in response. Highly
> >>> doubtful, however, since the basic concept of the song seems to have been
> >>> established well beforehand.
>
> >> Well, never too late to learn something about the Beatles I guess. I
> >> don't recall where I heard it the first time, but it fit, so I took it
> >> for real. OK, so MSH counts as McCartney dreaming up a violent
> >> scenario.
>
> >It's all so jolly though. Still, there are even some nursery rhymes that
> >I find equally disturbing, if not more so. Take the ending of "Four And
> >Twenty Blackbirds" for instance. But maybe that's because I re-seen
> >Hitchcock's "The Birds" recently.
>
> Nursery rhymes can be very scary indeed. So can clowns. My 26 year old
> son always was afraid of clowns....still is but won't admit it. I
> recently recordec and showed him the USPS commercial where the little
> clown doll moves (Priority Mail)...great commercial...I'm pretty sure
> he peed his pants a bit.
there is a specific name for that fear
> son always was afraid of clowns....still is but won't admit it. I
> recently recordec and showed him the USPS commercial where the little
> clown doll moves (Priority Mail)...great commercial...I'm pretty sure
> he peed his pants a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulrophobia
Getting back to John Lennon, he was young when his Mother died, and
he was young when his step father (Mimi's husband) died, and then Stu
died.
He lost his real mother-- at least the relationship -- when he was
very young.. I suppose he would have a fascination with death, or
at least think of the people he lost.
John Doherty
Jan 15, 2012, 8:59:27 AM1/15/12
to
On Jan 15, 7:42 am, topazgalaxy <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Getting back to John Lennon, he was young when his Mother died, and
> he was young when his step father (Mimi's husband) died, and then Stu
> died.
> He lost his real mother-- at least the relationship -- when he was
> very young.. I suppose he would have a fascination with death, or
> at least think of the people he lost.
Sure, that explains the idea of being haunted by death, but it does
>
> Getting back to John Lennon, he was young when his Mother died, and
> he was young when his step father (Mimi's husband) died, and then Stu
> died.
> He lost his real mother-- at least the relationship -- when he was
> very young.. I suppose he would have a fascination with death, or
> at least think of the people he lost.
not address the violence he anticipates explicitly with all the "shoot
me"s, "Angel of Destruction"s, etc. You could argue Julia's death was
violent, but at the time drunk driving was accepted as an accident
(and some people have explained Stu's death being connected to
violence earlier, but that does seem to be a minority view, and it's
not clear Lennon shared it). His Uncle George just dropped dead one
day.
Yet John spoke and sang about anticipating a <<violent>> end, and in
his very recorded last song demo, understanding that the "race was
over". This was one theme, while other songs of the era are more
hopeful, to speak to life, like, "Life Begins at Forty", of course.
And one other cite not yet mentioned is that when he was killed he was
holding the rough mixes of Yoko's song "Walking on Thin Ice" (on which
he played guitar) a phrase we all know to mean one is courting
disaster.
brilton
Jan 15, 2012, 9:34:16 AM1/15/12
to
you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
RichL
Jan 15, 2012, 12:42:56 PM1/15/12
to
"brilton" <not...@yacht.net> wrote in message
news:RtBQq.1824$%E2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the on-topic
nuttiness.
I'll consult my Ouiga board.
news:RtBQq.1824$%E2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
nuttiness.
I'll consult my Ouiga board.
Nil
Jan 15, 2012, 2:40:15 PM1/15/12
to
On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:
> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
rec.music.beatles:
> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
topazgalaxy
Jan 15, 2012, 5:45:57 PM1/15/12
to
On Jan 15, 2:40 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
believe paid a pretty penny and look where it got John. I wonder if
any of her psychics said "outlook not so good" and she ignored the
warning.
> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> rec.music.beatles:
>
> > I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> > on-topic nuttiness.
>
> > I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
Yes and Yoko contacted plenty of psychics and astrologers and I
>
> > I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> > on-topic nuttiness.
>
> > I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
believe paid a pretty penny and look where it got John. I wonder if
any of her psychics said "outlook not so good" and she ignored the
warning.
marcus
Jan 15, 2012, 6:03:48 PM1/15/12
to
John Doherty
Jan 15, 2012, 7:30:35 PM1/15/12
to
> > On Jan 15, 7:42 am, topazgalaxy<topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Getting back to John Lennon, he was young when his Mother died, and
> >> he was young when his step father (Mimi's husband) died, and then Stu
> >> died.
> >> He lost his real mother-- at least the relationship -- when he was
> >> very young.. I suppose he would have a fascination with death, or
> >> at least think of the people he lost.
>
> On 15/01/12 9:59 PM, John Doherty wrote:
>
> > Sure, that explains the idea of being haunted by death, but it does
> > not address the violence he anticipates explicitly with all the "shoot
> > me"s, "Angel of Destruction"s, etc. You could argue Julia's death was
> > violent, but at the time drunk driving was accepted as an accident
> > (and some people have explained Stu's death being connected to
> > violence earlier, but that does seem to be a minority view, and it's
> > not clear Lennon shared it). His Uncle George just dropped dead one
> > day.
>
> > Yet John spoke and sang about anticipating a<<violent>> end, and in
> > his very recorded last song demo, understanding that the "race was
> > over". This was one theme, while other songs of the era are more
> > hopeful, to speak to life, like, "Life Begins at Forty", of course.
>
> > And one other cite not yet mentioned is that when he was killed he was
> > holding the rough mixes of Yoko's song "Walking on Thin Ice" (on which
> > he played guitar) a phrase we all know to mean one is courting
> > disaster.
>
On Jan 15, 9:34 am, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
stuff. I am not personally all that psychic, but I have experience
enough of it to have felt that it can occasionally pan out in ways
that defy explanation. For a lot of people, the reaction to admitting
that there might be something to this is like farting at a dinner
party.
The Philip Norman book includes this anecdote about John's friend
Sonny Freeman telling a story about when she first met him as the band
was moving to London:
"...I remember John saying he didn't think he was going to live very
long-- that he had a premonition that he'd be shot, too". (John
Lennon, A Life, p.326) There are also mentions of two psychics Yoko
had on the payroll that told her dark (Non explicit, but quite telling
in retrospect) prophecies the week before John's death (p.803, A
LIfe).
It's intriguing that when I list these multiple examples of Lennon
either speaking openly of this feeling, or repeatedly putting it into
his songs, many of you imply there's something odd about noticing it.
"Nothing to see here, keep moving, people!"
BlackMonk
Jan 15, 2012, 7:34:47 PM1/15/12
to
statistic and worry about dying violently? Why is it odd that there
would be some overlap between those two groups?
If someone says "I think it'll rain tomorrow" and it rains, that person
isn't psychic. They just guessed correctly.
Nil
Jan 15, 2012, 7:38:19 PM1/15/12
to
On 15 Jan 2012, topazgalaxy <topaz...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:
> On Jan 15, 2:40 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> rec.music.beatles:
>>
>> > I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
>> > on-topic nuttiness.
>>
>> > I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>>
>> Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> Yes
"Yes" what? What in the world does that mean?
> and Yoko contacted plenty of psychics and astrologers and I
> believe paid a pretty penny and look where it got John. I wonder if
> any of her psychics said "outlook not so good" and she ignored the
> warning.
More irrelevant, meaningless, incomprehensible non sequitur from the
grudge-nursing psycho rmb cabal.
If Yoko asked Magic 8 Ball if you Yokotards are a physical danger to
her and her family, the answer would would be "Signs point to yes."
rec.music.beatles:
> On Jan 15, 2:40 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> rec.music.beatles:
>>
>> > I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
>> > on-topic nuttiness.
>>
>> > I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>>
>> Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> Yes
> and Yoko contacted plenty of psychics and astrologers and I
> believe paid a pretty penny and look where it got John. I wonder if
> any of her psychics said "outlook not so good" and she ignored the
> warning.
grudge-nursing psycho rmb cabal.
If Yoko asked Magic 8 Ball if you Yokotards are a physical danger to
her and her family, the answer would would be "Signs point to yes."
marcus
Jan 15, 2012, 7:52:53 PM1/15/12
to
think you have shown that Lennon was sometimes thought about his
mortality in song, but I don't find it that odd. I mean, don't you
also ponder yours on a regular basis? It's part of being human.
Based on what you've shown us, I don't think it adds up to Lennon
prophesizing his death. Lincoln telling folks, not long before his
death, about a dream he had wherein he was dead and the nation in
mourning...Martin Luther King Kr. stating that he might not live a
long time, but didn't fear death in a speech the night before he was
killed...those are prophesies. What you show Lennon doing is simple
musing...wondering about death. In late 1980,John was coming out of
self-imposed seclusion, dreaming and singing about "Starting Over"...I
don't think he thought he was about to be killed.
brilton
Jan 15, 2012, 8:19:24 PM1/15/12
to
RichL
Jan 15, 2012, 8:21:33 PM1/15/12
to
"John Doherty" <jo...@johndoherty.com> wrote in message
news:c1d4ac4c-c0f1-4219...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
Even more curious to me how people who respond to your posts with logic and
reason are described as "threatened".
Simply put, you haven't demonstrated your thesis convincingly. And now that
it's become clear to you that people aren't convinced (or even tempted, for
that matter), you're reacting emotionally.
news:c1d4ac4c-c0f1-4219...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
reason are described as "threatened".
Simply put, you haven't demonstrated your thesis convincingly. And now that
it's become clear to you that people aren't convinced (or even tempted, for
that matter), you're reacting emotionally.
brilton
Jan 15, 2012, 8:26:53 PM1/15/12
to
On 16/01/12 8:30 AM, John Doherty wrote:
>
>> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
>> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
>> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
>
>
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
I meant to add that your thread here has been very interesting and has
>
>> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
>> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
>> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
>
>
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
provoked a good deal of polite discussion. It's just that I don't
necessarily agree with it. I couldn't resist thye "walking on thin ice"
metaphor - which was meant in a light-hearted way - because I thought
your attempt to link the song to your theory was a wee bit of a stretch.
On that subject, I recall (paraphrasing here) that Jack Douglas once
said that Lennon had told him something that night that he (Douglas)
would never repeat, and "take to his grave". I weould love tto know what
that was.
I am not personally all that psychic, but I have experience
> enough of it to have felt that it can occasionally pan out in ways
> that defy explanation. For a lot of people, the reaction to admitting
> that there might be something to this is like farting at a dinner
> party.
>
> The Philip Norman book includes this anecdote about John's friend
> Sonny Freeman telling a story about when she first met him as the band
> was moving to London:
>
> "...I remember John saying he didn't think he was going to live very
> long-- that he had a premonition that he'd be shot, too". (John
> Lennon, A Life, p.326) There are also mentions of two psychics Yoko
> had on the payroll that told her dark (Non explicit, but quite telling
> in retrospect) prophecies the week before John's death (p.803, A
> LIfe).
>
> It's intriguing that when I list these multiple examples of Lennon
> either speaking openly of this feeling, or repeatedly putting it into
> his songs, many of you imply there's something odd about noticing it.
> "Nothing to see here, keep moving, people!"
opposite example.
brilton
Jan 15, 2012, 8:27:18 PM1/15/12
to
On 16/01/12 8:30 AM, John Doherty wrote:
>
>> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
>> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
>> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
>
>
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
>
>> A nice metaphor. To me, it sort of describes your proposition here as
>> you stride out further and further across the frozen lake of your theory
>> about Lennon's prophecies of his death.
>
>
> It's curious to me how threatened people get by discussion of this
> stuff.
I meant to add that your thread here has been very interesting and has
provoked a good deal of polite discussion. It's just that I don't
necessarily agree with it. I couldn't resist thye "walking on thin ice"
metaphor - which was meant in a light-hearted way - because I thought
your attempt to link the song to your theory was a wee bit of a stretch.
On that subject, I recall (paraphrasing here) that Jack Douglas once
said that Lennon had told him something that night that he (Douglas)
would never repeat, and "take to his grave". I would love to know what
provoked a good deal of polite discussion. It's just that I don't
necessarily agree with it. I couldn't resist thye "walking on thin ice"
metaphor - which was meant in a light-hearted way - because I thought
your attempt to link the song to your theory was a wee bit of a stretch.
On that subject, I recall (paraphrasing here) that Jack Douglas once
said that Lennon had told him something that night that he (Douglas)
that was.
I am not personally all that psychic, but I have experience
> enough of it to have felt that it can occasionally pan out in ways
> that defy explanation. For a lot of people, the reaction to admitting
> that there might be something to this is like farting at a dinner
> party.
>
> The Philip Norman book includes this anecdote about John's friend
> Sonny Freeman telling a story about when she first met him as the band
> was moving to London:
>
> "...I remember John saying he didn't think he was going to live very
> long-- that he had a premonition that he'd be shot, too". (John
> Lennon, A Life, p.326) There are also mentions of two psychics Yoko
> had on the payroll that told her dark (Non explicit, but quite telling
> in retrospect) prophecies the week before John's death (p.803, A
> LIfe).
>
> It's intriguing that when I list these multiple examples of Lennon
> either speaking openly of this feeling, or repeatedly putting it into
> his songs, many of you imply there's something odd about noticing it.
> "Nothing to see here, keep moving, people!"
ermitano
Jan 16, 2012, 12:23:41 AM1/16/12
to
> > On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> > rec.music.beatles:
>
> >> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> >> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> >> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> > Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> So use Thunderbird instead.
good idea!
>
> >> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> >> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> >> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> > Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> So use Thunderbird instead.
Fattuchus
Jan 16, 2012, 3:15:55 AM1/16/12
to
> > On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL"<rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> > rec.music.beatles:
>
> >> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> >> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> >> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> > Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> So use Thunderbird instead.
Baahaaahaaaaaa. Very funny, brillo.
>
> >> I don't know what's worse any more, the off-topic nuttiness or the
> >> on-topic nuttiness.
>
> >> I'll consult my Ouiga board.
>
> > Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good."
>
> So use Thunderbird instead.
Fattuchus
Jan 16, 2012, 3:14:58 AM1/16/12
to
On Jan 15, 7:30 pm, John Doherty <j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
There was a film on youtube where one psychic told Yoko years before
1980 that he believed John would meet a violent death.
John Doherty
Jan 16, 2012, 8:40:44 AM1/16/12
to
On Jan 15, 7:52 pm, marcus <marcus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> John, gotta be honest here, and go with my gut feeling on this. I
> think you have shown that Lennon was sometimes thought about his
> mortality in song, but I don't find it that odd.
Yes, and beyond that there's a few instances of him talking about him
>
> John, gotta be honest here, and go with my gut feeling on this. I
> think you have shown that Lennon was sometimes thought about his
> mortality in song, but I don't find it that odd.
personally dying violently, which is a bit more explicit.
>I mean, don't you
> also ponder yours on a regular basis?
I have not created any art around that concept. So, to go with your
own comparison, Lennon seemed to have considered the idea a lot more
than I have, and probably a lot more than the average pop star, not
just the average person. And to be sure, he ruffled a lot more
feathers than I have, and so logic does enter into it at some point.
But in the end, there wasn't any logic to it, and he was in fact shot
by an obsessed fan who'd gone crazy.
> It's part of being human.
> Based on what you've shown us, I don't think it adds up to Lennon
> prophesizing his death. Lincoln telling folks, not long before his
> death, about a dream he had wherein he was dead and the nation in
> mourning...Martin Luther King Kr. stating that he might not live a
> long time, but didn't fear death in a speech the night before he was
> killed...those are prophesies.
John". But that is a good cite-- because even these most explicit
predictions of mortality often exist side by side with mundane
planning for tomorrow, that implies that the person expects to
continue to live. I believe if psychic phenomena are real (and my
personal experience suggests they can be), they are often present as
one of several scenarios, and in the end it's the specifics the
strongly suggest there is something to it. The pull of surviving is
the strongest impulse in us.
In one of the Yoko cases I mentioned, a psychic told her "I see a
woman with long hair that looks like you, holding a small boy and
crying. I think it's your sister, not you, though". Yoko said to her
that "I have a sister, but she has short hair and does not have a
young son."
> What you show Lennon doing is simple
> musing...wondering about death. In late 1980,John was coming out of
> self-imposed seclusion, dreaming and singing about "Starting Over"...I
> don't think he thought he was about to be killed.
of other hopeful signs; "Beautiful Boy", "Life Begins at Forty", etc.
So part of him certainly wanted to live, and believed that he would.
But Lennon was always a jumble of contradictions. As Walt Whitman said
"Do I contradict myself? Well, I contain multitudes!" And one of the
central voices of his being had an abiding understanding that he would
die violently, at the end of a gun.
My point here is not that it was crystal clear and we all should have
known; but that in the cold light of day many years later, it's clear
that John Lennon spoke of, and wrote of dying violently far more often
than most of us.And in the end, this hunch panned out, sadly.
brilton
Jan 16, 2012, 8:42:07 AM1/16/12
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RichL
Jan 16, 2012, 9:04:54 AM1/16/12
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"brilton" <not...@yacht.net> wrote in message
news:UOVQq.1660$v14...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
jtees4
Jan 16, 2012, 11:09:18 AM1/16/12
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>Why would you have your son see the trailer or see the movie IT if he
>is fearful of clowns?
funny. I love my son. He loves me. Did I miss something?
Skokiaan
Jan 16, 2012, 11:06:34 AM1/16/12
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On Jan 15, 9:34 am, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
covers?
John Doe
Jan 17, 2012, 10:57:31 AM1/17/12
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This asshole just can't stop being a troll...
Nil <rednoise REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
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> From: Nil <rednoise REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
> Subject: Re: Lennon's prophecies of his death
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:38:19 -0500
> Organization: (?!)
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> References: <def025e5-f4a9-4d78-afcd-99fe0bab0ec5 q7g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <50655508-54fd-4907-ba85-950ff69b91e0 d10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com> <dlrmg717c5lqib399l37u0lrapp9re465h 4ax.com> <44fe1421-9538-41d7-bb15-47e5474ac34d p42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com> <koMOq.1381$v14.44 viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com> <yeKdnUzWjpLVCZbSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d supernews.com> <e291e8cd-0b38-4914-88f9-f49ae2b85d98 m4g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <5SXOq.1611$%E2.16 viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com> <oqoog75ffkctvgs9tecqbpd9e44q4meb2d 4ax.com> <788716cf-dd93-4764-b247-00305624723e w10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com> <dcd367a8-6476-4311-b5eb-be092dd2c8c7 o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com> <RtBQq.1824$%E2.230 viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com> <fOWdneaa2vW8jY7SnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d supernews.com> <Xns9FDB953E09519nilch1 127.0.0.1> <e5a9a197-b977-416e-a777-8ae1c53db1ce a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
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>
> On 15 Jan 2012, topazgalaxy <topazgalaxy gmail.com> wrote in
> rec.music.beatles:
>
>> On Jan 15, 2:40˙pm, Nil <redno... REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav... yahoo.com> wrote in
Nil <rednoise REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
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> From: Nil <rednoise REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
> Subject: Re: Lennon's prophecies of his death
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:38:19 -0500
> Organization: (?!)
> Lines: 28
> Message-ID: <Xns9FDBC7C67D564nilch1 127.0.0.1>
> References: <def025e5-f4a9-4d78-afcd-99fe0bab0ec5 q7g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <50655508-54fd-4907-ba85-950ff69b91e0 d10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com> <dlrmg717c5lqib399l37u0lrapp9re465h 4ax.com> <44fe1421-9538-41d7-bb15-47e5474ac34d p42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com> <koMOq.1381$v14.44 viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com> <yeKdnUzWjpLVCZbSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d supernews.com> <e291e8cd-0b38-4914-88f9-f49ae2b85d98 m4g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <5SXOq.1611$%E2.16 viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com> <oqoog75ffkctvgs9tecqbpd9e44q4meb2d 4ax.com> <788716cf-dd93-4764-b247-00305624723e w10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com> <dcd367a8-6476-4311-b5eb-be092dd2c8c7 o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com> <RtBQq.1824$%E2.230 viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com> <fOWdneaa2vW8jY7SnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d supernews.com> <Xns9FDB953E09519nilch1 127.0.0.1> <e5a9a197-b977-416e-a777-8ae1c53db1ce a8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
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>
> On 15 Jan 2012, topazgalaxy <topazgalaxy gmail.com> wrote in
> rec.music.beatles:
>
>> On Jan 15, 2:40˙pm, Nil <redno... REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 15 Jan 2012, "RichL" <rpleav... yahoo.com> wrote in
Lisi Peteras
Jan 18, 2012, 8:14:50 AM1/18/12
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On 1/12/2012 11:31 AM, The Lone Star wrote:
> On Jan 11, 5:57 pm, Lisi Peteras<nos...@nichtspam.com> wrote:
>> On 1/10/2012 10:24 PM, The Lone Star wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 7:54 pm, John Doherty<j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 10, 5:27 pm, The Lone Star<from_me_to_...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>>
>>>>> I'm going to die.
>>
>>>>> Hey, look at me...
>>
>>>>> I'm a prophet!
>>
>>>> But Lennon did more than predict that he would die.
>>
>>>> In two different songs, he sings "shoot me" as a refrain.
>>
>>>> In one song he said "they're gonna crucify me".
>>
>>>> In his posthumous album, he sings that he's "living on Borrowed Time"
>>
>>>> In another song he says ""I tried so hard to stay alive, but the Angel
>>>> of Destruction keeps on hounding me all around..."
>>
>>>> That's four strong hints of an early death (5 if you count the double
>>>> "shoot me"); four of them speak to a violent early death.
>>
>>>> They are all in the first person, John Lennon speaking of his personal
>>>> experience, or intuition, as he named another song.
>>
>>>> And in the very last song he wrote, less than a month before he was
>>>> murdered, he tells himself that "the race is over/ you won".
>>
>>>> So maybe you prefer to reduce those cites to Lennon saying "I'm going
>>>> to die eventually, like everyone else" but that's not what he said,
>>>> and that is not what I'm writing about.
>>
>>> How about this one!
>>
>>> "Close your eyes
>>> And I'll kiss you
>>> Tomorrow I'll miss you
>>> Remember I'll always be true."
>>
>> When are you going to die?
>
> Soon enough.
Good. We are all waiting.
Oh and one other thing. When they bury you, have them bury you with your
ass up so Allabest has a place to park his bike when he comes to talk to
you about Ron Paul.
> On Jan 11, 5:57 pm, Lisi Peteras<nos...@nichtspam.com> wrote:
>> On 1/10/2012 10:24 PM, The Lone Star wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 7:54 pm, John Doherty<j...@johndoherty.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 10, 5:27 pm, The Lone Star<from_me_to_...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>>
>>>>> I'm going to die.
>>
>>>>> Hey, look at me...
>>
>>>>> I'm a prophet!
>>
>>>> But Lennon did more than predict that he would die.
>>
>>>> In two different songs, he sings "shoot me" as a refrain.
>>
>>>> In one song he said "they're gonna crucify me".
>>
>>>> In his posthumous album, he sings that he's "living on Borrowed Time"
>>
>>>> In another song he says ""I tried so hard to stay alive, but the Angel
>>>> of Destruction keeps on hounding me all around..."
>>
>>>> That's four strong hints of an early death (5 if you count the double
>>>> "shoot me"); four of them speak to a violent early death.
>>
>>>> They are all in the first person, John Lennon speaking of his personal
>>>> experience, or intuition, as he named another song.
>>
>>>> And in the very last song he wrote, less than a month before he was
>>>> murdered, he tells himself that "the race is over/ you won".
>>
>>>> So maybe you prefer to reduce those cites to Lennon saying "I'm going
>>>> to die eventually, like everyone else" but that's not what he said,
>>>> and that is not what I'm writing about.
>>
>>> How about this one!
>>
>>> "Close your eyes
>>> And I'll kiss you
>>> Tomorrow I'll miss you
>>> Remember I'll always be true."
>>
>> When are you going to die?
>
> Soon enough.
Good. We are all waiting.
Oh and one other thing. When they bury you, have them bury you with your
ass up so Allabest has a place to park his bike when he comes to talk to
you about Ron Paul.
wylierich...@gmail.com
Jan 26, 2018, 2:03:58 AM1/26/18
to
On Tuesday, January 10, 2012 at 2:27:10 PM UTC-8, The Lone Star wrote:
> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> I'm going to die.
>
> Hey, look at me...
>
> I'm a prophet!
But what you are overlooking is John's fame and eventual assassination. Why does he say, in a whispered voice, "I see... so that's how you're going to do it!" in one of the last demos he ever recorded?
> All of us could say we are going to die, and we would be right.
>
> I'm going to die.
>
> Hey, look at me...
>
> I'm a prophet!
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