The Final Word on Ringo's Inability to Drum Roll
che...@my-deja.com
way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
finally and forever.
Anders Viberg will be posting a verbatim transcript of one of Ringo's
many interviews in which he admitted he has always been incapable of
performing a drum roll. Someone else has already agreed to post the
excerpt from the Beatles' authorized biography in which George Martin
also stated that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll. But
until then, here is an indication of just how low this debate has
descended:
RAGS Seely (?) posted the following diatribe on the thread
entitled "What are Chewie's Qualifications?":
"I'll try again! This debate isn't really about who said what! Ringo
may have said he couldn't do a drum roll, George Martin may have said
that, the Pope may have said it, for all it matters. The fact is,
whether they said it or not doesn't address the question as to whether
he can or not, much less whether or not he was a good drummer for the
band. Chewy has never allowed the debate to stay on the musical
plane, 'cause he cannot handle that - he always brings it back to who
said what. As if that really matters, when we can use our ears.
(There are all sorts of reasons why someone might say Ringo cannot do a
drum roll, consistent with their not being liars and consistent with
his actually being able to do one. And it is consistent with his not
being able to do a drum roll that he nevertheless was an excellent
drummer for the band. Don't lose sight of the essential points, don't
let your debating opponent choose the grounds of the debate so as to
avoid the real issues.)"
I think it is perfectly clear that Chewy isn't interested in the music,
not at least as far as his posts to rmb are concerned.
[End of RAGS Seely Quote]
Chewbop speaking:
Once again, you're out in left field, pal. Sorry to be so blunt about
it, but sometimes it's the only thing you seem to understand. The fact
remains that both Ringo and George Martin have insisted since at least
1968 that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll.
Now, you may believe in your heart of hearts that Ringo is a great
drummer. Fine. A lot of people also believe that Rod McKuen was a
great poet. People can...and will...believe whatever turns them on.
And I think we both agree that believing something subjective like
whether Ringo was a great drummer is strictly a matter of taste and
opinion.
But that's not the issue here...never has been...no matter how much you
try to make it so. The issue is whether Ringo is capable of peforming
a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians. Go back and
read the first post in the other thread if you still don't get it.
Now, the question of whether Ringo is capable...or not capable...of
performing a true drum roll is NOT a question of subjective taste, or
opinion, or belief. It is a question of fact. Either Ringo can
perform a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians...or he
cannot. There is no in-between or gray area here. Are you still with
me?
Ringo has directly stated many, many times over the years that he is
incapable of performing a true drum roll. George Martin, who worked
with Ringo for years, has also stated directly many, many times that
Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll. Martin first said
it publicly in 1968...AFTER the Beatles had recorded "All You Need is
Love", "Nowhere Man" and all the rest.
Therefore, one of the following has to be true. There are no other
possible conclusions: (1) Ringo and George Martin are liars; (2) Ringo
and George Martin are telling the truth...however repellent you may
find that truth to be; or (3) Ringo and George Martin are a couple of
buffoons who have either lost touch with reality or have not the
slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of.
There are no other possibilities. Agreed? It's no good saying that
Ringo was joshing..or that George Martin was "making a funny"...because
then we have to reconcile that possibility with two facts: (1) Ringo
has NEVER ever publicly made a self-deprecating remark about his
drumming ability. Frankly, he can't afford to. I challenge anyone to
produce such a quote. And (2) George Martin has NEVER "made a funny"
in any interview he's ever granted or any book he's ever written.
However well-known and respected he might be, he is NOT remembered for
his sense of humor.
Therefore, we can safely eliminate the possibility that Ringo was
joshing or that George Martin was making a funny. Still with me?
Then you went on to say:
"There are all sorts of reasons why someone might say Ringo cannot do a
drum roll, consistent with their not being liars and consistent with
his actually being able to do one."
LOL. Pray, do tell us what they might be, RAGS!!
And finally, you said:
"And it is consistent with his not being able to do a drum roll that he
nevertheless was an excellent drummer for the band. Don't lose sight
of the essential points, don't let your debating opponent choose the
grounds of the debate so as to avoid the real issues."
RAGS, clearly you did NOT paticipate in the debating club in high
school, as you clearly don't understand the nature of debating. In
just two sentence above, you decided to completely ignore the true
issue and create a diversionary issue of your own. Had you tried to
pull such a stunt on a high school debating team, you would have been
cut from the team after tryouts. Go back and read the very first post
on the thread "What are Chewie's Qualifications?" That post clearly
stated the issue to be debated, and it is still the issue under debate
no matter how much you try to change it.
The question still is: Can Ringo perform a true drum roll as defined
by professional musicians?
And were Ringo and George Martin lying...or telling the truth...when
they said many times over the years that Ringo is not capable of
performing a true drum roll?
Those are the issues under debate...NOT whether Ringo is an excellent
drummer or a lousy drummer. You may have tried to frame the debate
that way, but that's got nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Are you still with me, RAGS?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
R.A.G. Seely
>Are you still with me, RAGS?
Sorry - I left you behind long ago, it seems. But you did manage to prove
every one of my points in a post that I couldn't have invented to greater
advantage. Thanks indeed.
-= rags =-
--
To reply by email, use "@" not "__A@T__"
<rags AT math.mcgill.ca>
<http://www.math.mcgill.ca/rags>
sodium
> The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll has gone
> way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
> finally and forever.
>
Now Gerry/Chewwy, would you please let us all know who it is that is
actually playing the four snare drum press rolls in
Nowhere Man? These drum rolls ocur at precisely:
0'30"
1'17"
1'49"
2'20"
on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the 16th
note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said rolls on
Day Tripper are :
0' 14"
1'44"
2'29"
2'37"
N.B. please address these *specific* drum rolls in your reply Gerry.
I look forward to your response Gerry
sodium
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:961vho$tqi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> But that's not the issue here...never has been...no matter how much you
> try to make it so. The issue is whether Ringo is capable of peforming
> a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians.
Couldnt agree more, Gerry
Now Gerry, would you please let us all know who it is that is actually
playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum rolls
ocur at precisely:
0'30"
1'17"
1'49"
2'20"
on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the 16th
note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said rolls on
Day Tripper are :
0' 14"
1'44"
2'29"
2'37"
N.B. I'm a professional musician, so please allow me to offer you this
definition of a drum roll, drawn verbatim from the Concise Oxford
Dictionary of Music (3rd Edition): "A drum roll is a rapid succession of
notes played on a drum, becoming almost a continous sound (from the German
"Wirbel")"
I hope this clarifies the issue of definitpono for you Gerry.
che...@my-deja.com
ra...@math.mcgill.ca wrote:
> che...@my-deja.com wrote in <961vho$tqi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> >Are you still with me, RAGS?
>
> Sorry - I left you behind long ago, it seems. But you did manage to
prove
> every one of my points in a post that I couldn't have invented to
greater
> advantage. Thanks indeed.
Cute comeback...empty and evasive, as predicted, but cute nonetheless.
che...@my-deja.com
"sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> N.B. I'm a professional musician, so please allow me to offer you this
> definition of a drum roll, drawn verbatim from the Concise Oxford
> Dictionary of Music (3rd Edition): "A drum roll is a rapid
succession of
> notes played on a drum, becoming almost a continous sound (from the
German
> "Wirbel")"
LOL. Somone's fibbing...again. If you were a professional musician,
you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
true drum roll.
sodium
> Cute comeback...empty and evasive,
please Gerry, don't you stoop to being evasive of my simple questions
regarding "Nowhere Man" and "Day Tripper". after all, i answered your
question, so its only polite that you answer mine. here, for your
conveninece, i'll restate it for you........
Now Gerry, would you please let us all know who it is that is actually
playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum rolls
ocur at precisely:
0'30"
1'17"
1'49"
2'20"
on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the 16th
note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said rolls on
Day Tripper are :
0' 14"
1'44"
2'29"
2'37"
N.B. I'm a professional musician, so please allow me to offer you this
definition of a drum roll, drawn verbatim from the Concise Oxford
Dictionary of Music (3rd Edition): "A drum roll is a rapid succession of
notes played on a drum, becoming almost a continous sound (from the German
"Wirbel")"
I hope this clarifies the issue of definition for you Gerry.
Jeff U.
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:961vho$tqi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll has gone
> way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
> finally and forever.
In this post you use the term "true drum roll" eleven times. You're
position is that Ringo cannot perform a "true drum roll"? Several months
ago you started all of this by saying that Ringo cannot perform a "simple
drum roll". See the following Douchebop post from August 2000...
>>>We all know that Ringo was....and frankly, still is....incapable of
performing a simple drum roll. Some on this newsgroup have
asked "So what?". I will tell you so what.
>>>
So which is it? Are you now admitting that Ringo CAN perform the rolls that
are heard in...
Nowhere Man
Being For The Bebefit Of Mr. Kite
All You Need Is Love
You're Mother Should Know (Anth 2)
Day Tripper
etc.
When you can answer this, then this issue will be put to rest finally and
forever.
> The issue is whether Ringo is capable of peforming
> a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians. Go back and
> read the first post in the other thread if you still don't get it.
No, the issue is wether Ringo can perform a SIMPLE drum roll as shown by
you're very own words Douchey.
> Now, the question of whether Ringo is capable...or not capable...of
> performing a true drum roll is NOT a question of subjective taste, or
> opinion, or belief. It is a question of fact. Either Ringo can
> perform a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians...or he
> cannot. There is no in-between or gray area here. Are you still with
> me?
Are you still with US?
The FACT is there are many instances of drum rolls on Beatle recordings. If
you feel these are not examples of "true drum rolls" then will you admit
that they are at least "simple drum rolls"??? Something that you originally
said Ringo could not do.
> There are no other possibilities. Agreed? It's no good saying that
> Ringo was joshing..or that George Martin was "making a funny"...because
> then we have to reconcile that possibility with two facts: (1) Ringo
> has NEVER ever publicly made a self-deprecating remark about his
> drumming ability. Frankly, he can't afford to. I challenge anyone to
> produce such a quote.
I know this is not true. I don't have anything here at work to quote but
I'm sure it won't take long for someone to find an example of Ringo's
modesty.
And (2) George Martin has NEVER "made a funny"
> in any interview he's ever granted or any book he's ever written.
> However well-known and respected he might be, he is NOT remembered for
> his sense of humor.
Pure opinion. I've often laughed along with George's stories and
recollections when I've seen him in interviews.
>
> Therefore, we can safely eliminate the possibility that Ringo was
> joshing or that George Martin was making a funny.
No we can't.
> RAGS, clearly you did NOT paticipate in the debating club in high
> school, as you clearly don't understand the nature of debating. In
> just two sentence above, you decided to completely ignore the true
> issue and create a diversionary issue of your own.
You would know! That has been you're method since you're first appearance
here.
You cling to supposed Martin quote that Ringo cannot perfrom a roll, yet
right here we have Martin saying Ringo added a drum roll to All You Need Is
Love...
Lewishon, Sessions hardcover page 121:
"Funnily enough," says George Martin, "although John had added a new vocal,
Ringo had added a drum roll and we had done a new mix, few people realised
the single was any different to the TV version of the song."
Can you explain this Douchebop?
Jeff U.
paramucho
wrote:
In fact, Nick, what does your drummer mate, was raised on your drum
roll, namely the Scottish Pipe Band drum roll and who does the
Scottish rolls at the end of your version of I AM THE WALRUS, think of
Ringo's rolls.
Ian
sodium
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9623s2$1aj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
um that just doesnt make sense Gerry. as a professional musican, i take
pride in getting it *right*.
therfore i only wanted to present you with the best possible defintion of a
drum roll, and as a working musician, i consulted a few of my reference
books(as of course you would)..
so are you saying the defintion is incorrect, and if so, would you care to
present a definition yourself which you feel is a better one?
i would love to read it.
Luke Pacholski
>LOL. Somone's fibbing...again. If you were a professional musician,
>you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
>true drum roll.
Ok...if he is incorrect, what *is* the definition of a "true drum roll",
if there ever was such a thing.
Luke
Luke Pacholski
>Once again, you're out in left field, pal. Sorry to be so blunt about
>it, but sometimes it's the only thing you seem to understand. The fact
>remains that both Ringo and George Martin have insisted since at least
>1968 that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll.
No, they haven't. They have said that Ringo was never a technical
drummer. And, in fact, both George Martin and Geoff Emerick have stated
that it was in fact Ringo that did the drum roll on All You Need Is Love.
>Now, the question of whether Ringo is capable...or not capable...of
>performing a true drum roll is NOT a question of subjective taste, or
>opinion, or belief. It is a question of fact. Either Ringo can
>perform a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians...or he
>cannot. There is no in-between or gray area here. Are you still with
>me?
Fine. Ringo can perform a true drum roll. End of story. Check please!
>Therefore, one of the following has to be true. There are no other
>possible conclusions: (1) Ringo and George Martin are liars; (2) Ringo
>and George Martin are telling the truth...however repellent you may
>find that truth to be; or (3) Ringo and George Martin are a couple of
>buffoons who have either lost touch with reality or have not the
>slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of.
Or, (4), Ringo and George Martin have never said "Ringo was never able
to due a true drum roll".
>There are no other possibilities. Agreed?
No. See above.
>The question still is: Can Ringo perform a true drum roll as defined
>by professional musicians?
Yep. Nowhere Man and All You Need Is Love attest to that. Pull out your
CDs.
>And were Ringo and George Martin lying...or telling the truth...when
>they said many times over the years that Ringo is not capable of
>performing a true drum roll?
Neither ever said that as a matter of fact.
Ok, case closed. Ringo can do drum rolls. I'm happy...let's all go home!
Luke
Luke Pacholski
>Cute comeback...empty and evasive, as predicted, but cute nonetheless.
Why exactly is it that you *never* respond to my posts, Chewy? I've
posted hard evidence several times that shows that Ringo did in fact
play drum rolls on many Beatles songs, and you have never responded. Why
is that?
Luke
paramucho
wrote:
>
>
><che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9623s2$1aj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> In article <9621su$6gd$0...@pita.alt.net>,
>> "sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> LOL. Somone's fibbing...again. If you were a professional musician,
>> you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
>> true drum roll.
>
>um that just doesnt make sense Gerry. as a professional musican, i take
>pride in getting it *right*.
Do you mean that the worm is still squirming out of answering your
direct question?
C'mon Chewy -- where's the fuckin' beef lad.
Now Gerry, would you please let us all know who it is that is actually
playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum
rolls
ocur at precisely:
0'30"
1'17"
1'49"
2'20"
on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the
16th
note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said
rolls on
Day Tripper are :
0' 14"
1'44"
2'29"
2'37"
Ian
NoFliesonFrank
on your patience and persistence. Also an extremely high level of
tolerance.
That said, do any of you really believe you are ever going to get a
straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
You have all proved him wrong, incorrect, recalcitrant and completely
fullashit so many times, I find it absolutely amazing that any of you
bother to continue.
And besides, Ringo has always and will always, in this fan's heart,
rocked!
So basically why waste your time?
Francie
In article <9624ft$d...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>,
--
It is better to be hated for what you are
than to be loved for what you are not.
~ Andre Gide ~
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
Francie's Boot: Like Body Count in 3D
R.A.G. Seely
<9628va$5cg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>So basically why waste your time?
I have thought and said this myself on several occasions, yet still
sometimes get sucked in ... it's very curious!
But you're right...
Jeff U.
"NoFliesonFrank" <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9628va$5cg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I congratulate you guys (meaning everybody in this thread except Douchey)
> on your patience and persistence. Also an extremely high level of
> tolerance.
>
> That said, do any of you really believe you are ever going to get a
> straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
No, never have...never will.
>
> You have all proved him wrong, incorrect, recalcitrant and completely
> fullashit so many times, I find it absolutely amazing that any of you
> bother to continue.
Cause it's so much fun?
>
> And besides, Ringo has always and will always, in this fan's heart,
> rocked!
>
> So basically why waste your time?
So anyone reading his posts will not be mislead. We owe it to rmb readers,
especially newer fans, to keep correcting this guy lest his fantasies
become accepted as truth.
Jeff U.
sodium
> straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
well, my view is that if i keep asking Gerry to tell us who it was that
actually played the Nowhere Man/Day Tripper rolls, i may learn something new
about the fabs from such an obviously well read erudite fellow as
Gerry/Chewwy..........;-)
robertandrews
2. Made critical mistakes about the recording process
3. Based his entire case on some (alleged?) comments
4. Overwhelming evidence refuting his argument
5. Never responded to direct questions
For some strange reason, I pity this lost soul.
che...@my-deja.com
NoFliesonFrank <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I congratulate you guys (meaning everybody in this thread
> tolerance.
Thanks, Francie. It's a dirty, lonely job but somebody's gotta do it.
>
> That said, do any of you really believe you are ever going to get a
> straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
If you're referring to RAG Seely (your description, not mine), probably
not. I've asked him countless times whether he thinks Ringo and Sir
George are lying or telling the truth. Still no direct answer.
> You have all proved him wrong, incorrect, recalcitrant and completely
> fullashit so many times, I find it absolutely amazing that any of you
> bother to continue.
Again, if you're referring to RAG, that's your characterization, not
mine...but yes, you're basically correct.
> And besides, Ringo has always and will always, in this fan's heart,
> rocked!
>
> So basically why waste your time?
Because somebody has to debunk the myths!! How many times do I have to
explain my mission to you?? If I don't do it, who will?
But, Francie, why so much hate?
R.A.G. Seely
>> That said, do any of you really believe you are ever going to get a
>> straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
>
>If you're referring to RAG Seely (your description, not mine), probably
>not. I've asked him countless times whether he thinks Ringo and Sir
>George are lying or telling the truth. Still no direct answer.
By gum! I never thought it possible, but I think I got to him! ...
-= rags =-
(Oh yes - and Chewy: I don't think Ringo and Sir George are lying or
telling the truth - is that direct enough?)
sodium
"Jeff U." <opusjeff(no spam)@fast.net> wrote in message
news:962a71$d...@nntpa.cb.lucent.com...
> So anyone reading his posts will not be mislead. We owe it to rmb
readers,
> especially newer fans, to keep correcting this guy lest his fantasies
> become accepted as truth.
oh , i woudnt call Gerry's stuff "fantasy", that would suggest he actually
believed it.
;_)
NoFliesonFrank
che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <9628va$5cg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> NoFliesonFrank <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > I congratulate you guys (meaning everybody in this thread
> > on your patience and persistence. Also an extremely high level of
> > tolerance.
>
>
>
I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and flameworthy.
Francie
--
It is better to be hated for what you are
than to be loved for what you are not.
~ Andre Gide ~
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
Francie's Boot: Like Body Count in 3D
che...@my-deja.com
> I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and flameworthy.
But surely you realize by now that I...Chewbop...am flame retardant.
[predictable response to follow]
sodium
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:K72h6.6532$WV5.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
oh god, dont do that.
he has no "case, has no "argument", has no interest in music.
he is simply trolling, and as such, is very succesful.
although i'd love him to prove me wrong and actually address the question i
put to him about Nowhere Man and Day Tripper.
of course a troll will never address bona fide questions. but i live in hope
that Gerry/Chewwy might choose to surprise me.
sodium
"R.A.G. Seely" <rags__A@T__math.mcgill.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns9043E0C4DEE8Dli...@192.26.210.18...
> che...@my-deja.com wrote in <962abo$6bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> >> That said, do any of you really believe you are ever going to get a
> >> straight answer from this ng's biggest anal retentive creep?
> >
> >If you're referring to RAG Seely (your description, not mine), probably
> >not. I've asked him countless times whether he thinks Ringo and Sir
> >George are lying or telling the truth. Still no direct answer.
>
> By gum! I never thought it possible, but I think I got to him! ...
>
> -= rags =-
>
> (Oh yes - and Chewy: I don't think Ringo and Sir George are lying or
> telling the truth - is that direct enough?)
RAGS applies chaos theory to Chewwy!
LOL!
na
--
"Fucking hell do I have to spell it out!? "Trisha" is *not* a 15 year old
girl, she, ahem, he, is a hot shot 40 something lawyer beatle fan called
Larry. Have you noticed how "Trisha" seems to have completely disappeared
from the face of the earth! Calling Larry Calling Larry, come on Larry!
Fancy a Piss fight? Get back in the ladies!" ~ Danny
sodium
> In article <962ajt$6m1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>
> > I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and flameworthy.
>
> But surely you realize by now that I...Chewbop...am flame retardant.
I for one admire that in a poster.
Now Gerry, would you please let us all know who it is that is actually
playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum rolls
ocur at precisely:
0'30"
1'17"
1'49"
2'20"
on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the 16th
note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said rolls on
Day Tripper are :
0' 14"
1'44"
2'29"
2'37"
NoFliesonFrank
che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <962ajt$6m1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>
> > I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and flameworthy.
>
> But surely you realize by now that I...Chewbop...am flame retardant.
>
>
Oh you're retarded alright...
Can you pronounce logorrhea?
Francie
--
It is better to be hated for what you are
than to be loved for what you are not.
~ Andre Gide ~
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
Francie's Boot: Like Body Count in 3D
che...@my-deja.com
NoFliesonFrank <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <962bn2$7gl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <962ajt$6m1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> >
> > > I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and
flameworthy.
> >
> > But surely you realize by now that I...Chewbop...am flame retardant.
> >
> >
>
> Oh you're retarded alright...
>
> Can you pronounce logorrhea?
Can you pronounce "diarrhea"? It's the same as logorrhea, only it
comes out the other end. Sound familiar?
Luke Pacholski
>Because somebody has to debunk the myths!! How many times do I have to
>explain my mission to you?? If I don't do it, who will?
What myths? Ringo played drum rolls on Beatles records. Simply as that.
No "myth"...
Luke
sodium
> Can you pronounce "diarrhea"? It's the same as logorrhea, only it
> comes out the other end. Sound familiar?
hehe, good joke Gerry.
Now please, would you be so kind as let us all know who it is that is
R.A.G. Seely
>"R.A.G. Seely" <rags__A@T__math.mcgill.ca> wrote in message
>news:Xns9043E0C4DEE8Dli...@192.26.210.18...
>> che...@my-deja.com wrote in <962abo$6bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>> >If you're referring to RAG Seely (your description, not mine), probably
>> >not. I've asked him countless times whether he thinks Ringo and Sir
>> >George are lying or telling the truth. Still no direct answer.
>>
>> By gum! I never thought it possible, but I think I got to him! ...
>> (Oh yes - and Chewy: I don't think Ringo and Sir George are lying or
>> telling the truth - is that direct enough?)
>
>RAGS applies chaos theory to Chewwy!
>
>LOL!
>
I feel like I'm on a roll here ...
-= rags =-
Ronnie Clark
>in any interview he's ever granted or any book he's ever written.
>However well-known and respected he might be, he is NOT remembered for
>his sense of humor.
You've not seen his "In My Life" documentary, then?
Ronnie
Ronnie Clark
>you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
>true drum roll.
Cute comeback...empty and evasive, as predicted, but cute nonetheless.
I speak English. I'm an ex-professional at writing English, as it happens,
since I was editor of a magazine for over 3 years.
But I still look at the dictionary from time to time to learn the PRECISE
meanings of terms.
Ronnie
Anders Viberg
> The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll has gone
> way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
> finally and forever.
>
> Anders Viberg will be posting a verbatim transcript of one of Ringo's
> many interviews in which he admitted he has always been incapable of
> performing a drum roll.
Not so fast Gerry!
I will, of course, NOT post this interview unless you will all, and I mean
everybody, agree on everything I say in the future.
An old chewbopping trick that...
Seriously though, I don't think you...Chew will be too interested in seeing
that quote in its original form. In its context.
It's obvious that he is not THAT serious when saying that.
Obvious to all of us who can see the humour in the situation.
"Well, I've might not been able to ever made a proper drum roll but I did
quite well anyway, dontchathink?" - like.
Secondly. Where are these other "many interviews" in which Ringo has said he
can't make a drum roll?
With all that Beatle-lore in your hands (a completist and all that) there's
no reason for you to be so anxiously expecting me to post this one interview
where he's JOKINGLY saying he can't do a drum roll.
Why should I post this one interview when you know many other interviews
wherein he says the same thing?
Why don't you post those other quotes instead?
> Chewbop speaking:
>
> Once again, you're out in left field, pal. Sorry to be so blunt about
> it, but sometimes it's the only thing you seem to understand. The fact
> remains that both Ringo and George Martin have insisted since at least
> 1968 that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll.
Well, well, well. It used to be; "a simple drum roll", now it's "a true drum
roll" or "a drum roll as defined by professional musicians". You are
changing the rules all the time.
Pete Best could do a drum roll. Ringo couldn't, you said.
Now... I asked you this before:
Was Pete's drum rolls as true as "defined by professional musicians"?
> Now, you may believe in your heart of hearts that Ringo is a great
> drummer. Fine. A lot of people also believe that Rod McKuen was a
> great poet. People can...and will...believe whatever turns them on.
> And I think we both agree that believing something subjective like
> whether Ringo was a great drummer is strictly a matter of taste and
> opinion.
And I think we can all agree that it is not in Ringo's ability or
non-ability to make a drum roll in which it lies.
> But that's not the issue here...never has been...no matter how much you
> try to make it so. The issue is whether Ringo is capable of performing
> a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians. Go back and
> read the first post in the other thread if you still don't get it.
Just when I thought we were getting somewhere...
> Now, the question of whether Ringo is capable...or not capable...of
> performing a true drum roll is NOT a question of subjective taste, or
> opinion, or belief. It is a question of fact. Either Ringo can
> perform a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians...or he
> cannot. There is no in-between or gray area here. Are you still with
> me?
The answer is "on record" so to speak.
You just won't get it.
You are taking things a bit to literal, Gerry.
What does it matter what anyone says as long as it is there. when you can
hear it played?
Let's play a little mind game:
Question:
Was George Harrison able to play an E7-9?
We don't know.
Has he ever said so?
Maybe you can find a quote where he says; "No, I have never been able to
play an E7-9. What is it?"
Possibly.
Maybe George Martin would tell you; "Harrison wasn't good enough to play a
E7-9, he has no musical education at all."
Possibly.
But wait. It's there on the record, it is an E7-9 played by George.
You can hear it! It's there! And it *is* George playing!
Now was George able to play an E7-9 or not?
You go by his and George Martin's word or what's on the record?
Now as a special bonus for you.Chebop, please tell me two songs in which
George used this E7-9 chord.
As a Beatles-collector and "student of music" you would be enough
accomplished to tell me.
You know I know the answer. Please reply.
> Ringo has directly stated many, many times over the years that he is
> incapable of performing a true drum roll.
There it is again.
Many times?
It's not like every time he meets a journalist he has to confess;
"Sorry I can't do a drum roll. Forgive me father for I have sinned."
In fact Boppy it is of no importance whatsoever.
There is only one person on this planet who struggles with this issue every
day whether our man Richie can make a drum roll or not and finds that within
this lies the true answer if The Beatles had a good drummer or not.
And that's you. Chewie-Chewie.
You are obsessed with it.
> George Martin, who worked
> with Ringo for years, has also stated directly many, many times that
> Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll. Martin first said
> it publicly in 1968...AFTER the Beatles had recorded "All You Need is
> Love", "Nowhere Man" and all the rest.
Read my quote by George Martin re his view of Ringo's drumming, posted
earlier.
You will find a lot of admiration from George's tongue. His words doesn't
quite fit in with your theory that George Martin thought that Ringo was
unable to perform the simplest of drum parts and that he needed to be
replaced more
than often.
Of course secretly. And all covered up like it was some big conspiracy, and
not just a rock group of self taught musicians who just incidentally made
some of the greatest pop music of all time.
And again. it's not that George considers Ringo to be a bad drummer
*because* he can't make a proper drum roll but that he's a good drummer
*despite* being unable to do it.
The drum roll issue was apparently used as an example of Ringo not being a
technically advanced drummer but instead balancing up that lack of skill
with a tremendous feel and a special sound.
Gee, where would Bob Dylan be had he taken singing lessons?
At the opera, you say. Yep. That would have been great.
> Therefore, one of the following has to be true. There are no other
> possible conclusions: (1) Ringo and George Martin are liars; (2) Ringo
> and George Martin are telling the truth...however repellent you may
> find that truth to be; or (3) Ringo and George Martin are a couple of
> buffoons who have either lost touch with reality or have not the
> slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of.
Blah, blah, blah...
On and on and on and on.
> There are no other possibilities. Agreed? It's no good saying that
> Ringo was joshing..or that George Martin was "making a funny"...because
> then we have to reconcile that possibility with two facts: (1) Ringo
> has NEVER ever publicly made a self-deprecating remark about his
> drumming ability.
Eh, you will find lots of those when I decide to post the one "Musician"
interview with the infamous drum roll remark.
And that's *one* interview only.
Still you're sure you would want me to post it?
> Frankly, he can't afford to. I challenge anyone to
> produce such a quote.
La la la...
> And (2) George Martin has NEVER "made a funny"
> in any interview he's ever granted or any book he's ever written.
> However well-known and respected he might be, he is NOT remembered for
> his sense of humor.
Neither are you...Shebop.
In fact I haven't seen anything funny or humorous in all your posts you have
ever posted here.
And that is what I think has been almost frightening.
There has never ever been the slightest twinkle in your eye, never.
When I've read some of it at times I feel like...I hope this guy is joking.
Just wait till that day when he will say; "Ha! I've got you, I was only
kidding."
But I've found out since long that's a day that will never come.
And. I don't know from where you get your energy.
How is it possible that you can be so obsessed with something you to such a
great extent dislike?
You have commented on a lot of Ringo's solo records. And I suspect you have
all of his records even some of his more obscure efforts and there are quite
a few.
You've seen all his films it seems. All of them you don't like.
Why do you bother to go to see his films at the cinema or/and buy the videos
when you clearly despise him?
It is scary.
And why don't you ever say anything positive by the Beatles, the group you
buy every book about?
It's all negative.
Tell us: What is your favourite beatle record?
Your favourite song?
You never vote in Strabbo's games. When you reply for best ever LP, song or
whatever you always mentions anything BUT the Beatles material. Why is that?
How did you become interested in Beatles and why?
I know ...we know you must like them and the music.
You don't collect stamps if you don't feel good about it and have an
interest in it.
Why is it so hard for you to admit it?
Are you only here to stir up trouble?
Ok, what's your favourite song?
You tell yours and I tell mine...huh?
And don't say it is "Revolution 9" because it made you realise that even
Beatles are human. One of the "clever" things you have said and a typical
Gerry answer but no...what you really like. C'mon now we'd like to see it.
Here's mine:
"Chew-Bop-A-Lula" by Gerry and the Troublemakers.
Ok?
> The question still is: Can Ringo perform a true drum roll as defined
> by professional musicians?
You define a professional musician first.
> And were Ringo and George Martin lying...or telling the truth...when
> they said many times over the years that Ringo is not capable of
> performing a true drum roll?
Many times? There it is again.
> Those are the issues under debate...NOT whether Ringo is an excellent
> drummer or a lousy drummer. You may have tried to frame the debate
> that way, but that's got nothing to do with the issue at hand.
>
> Are you still with me, RAGS?
RAGS is alright.
Though I think we've lost you...Chewbop along the way, a long time ago.
Painted in the corner, screaming for help.
It's you against the world.
Now you go back to the place where you keep all your Ringo's CDs and dig out
"I Wanna Be Santa Claus" and then take a listen to the title track from that
album.
And then come back and tell me and everybody else here what it is that you
hear at the beginning of that track.
Can it be... can it be... can it be a DRUM ROLL AS DEFINED BY PROFESSIONAL
MUSICIANS?
We await your reply but expect the usual silence.
/Anders
sung-hi-lee
news:962gut$ild$2...@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk...
> >LOL. Somone's fibbing...again. If you were a professional musician,
> >you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
> >true drum roll.
>
> Cute comeback...empty and evasive, as predicted, but cute nonetheless.
>
> I speak English. I'm an ex-professional at writing English, as it happens,
> since I was editor of a magazine for over 3 years.
Then Gerry's lame attempt to characterise me as being unprofessional simply
because i quoted from the Oxford dictionary of music would strike you as
childish and inaccurate.
So heres another definiton of the humble drum roll:
"The drum roll produces a sustained sound and is achieved by striking the
sticks alternately on the drumhead in an even manner (a single stroke roll)
or by bouncing alternate sticks (a double stroke roll, closed, or buzz
roll)."
How was that oneGerry/ Chewwy? Would you like me to define a few other
rudiments for you Gerry?Chewwy?
robertandrews
>We await your reply but expect the usual silence.
Except for the laughter echoing from the bleachers.
Very funny post, Anders. Still, I pity this poor soul.
S.E. Ostrow
> >you wouldn't need to consult a dictionary to learn the definition of a
> >true drum roll.
See, folks, if you're REALLY a professional musician, the music fairy flies
down and waves a magic wand and says, "From this day forward, you know it
all! Books, begone! Go forth in the name of Chewbop!"
And if you're really a musician, you don't need a tuning fork anymore
either. Whassamatter, don'tcha know "A440" when you hear it?
Bob Martin
(in message <962abo$6bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>):
> Because somebody has to debunk the myths!! How many times do I have to
> explain my mission to you?? If I don't do it, who will?
Exactly what myth is it we're debunking here? The myth that several people in
the Beatles camp have said that Ringo can't do a proper drum roll? Or is the
myth that people can have an opinion about whether or not Ringo is a good
drummer?
There is no widly circulated Myth that Ringo is a good drummer. That's
because, this calls for an opinion, making it subjective, rather than
factual. That a VAST majority of the listening population enjoys Ringo's
drumming cannot be the result of some "myth". Indeed, it can only be the
result of actually listening and forming an opinion. Add to that mass
uninformed opinion, the favorable opinions of virtually EVERY drummer and
musician that has ever heard Ringo (there are, in fact, entire web pages to
famous great and other musicians who just LOVE Ringo's drumming) and we begin
to see that the myth is actually the quotes from people in the Beatles camp
who may or may not have said the things that are attributed to them.
Therefore, the drumming stands on its own, and the collective opinion of just
about everybody in the world except for Gerry (Chewbop) is that Ringo is a
great drummer. So what's the big deal? Where's the myth? Everybody loves what
they hear. Pretty plain and simple.
Bob Martin
VaaThor
>>>strangeness snipped<<<
I've seen Ringo do drum-rolls twice with his All-Star band several years ago.
They were pretty damn good, BTW.
~~Ramble on, Because your Time is going to come~~
Jeff U.
news:962ht2$nsi$1...@zingo.tninet.se...
> <che...@my-deja.com> bopped:
>
> > The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll has gone
> > way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
> > finally and forever.
> >
> > Anders Viberg will be posting a verbatim transcript of one of Ringo's
> > many interviews in which he admitted he has always been incapable of
> > performing a drum roll.
>
> Not so fast Gerry!
> I will, of course, NOT post this interview unless you will all, and I mean
> everybody, agree on everything I say in the future.
> An old chewbopping trick that...
> Seriously though, I don't think you...Chew will be too interested in
seeing
> that quote in its original form. In its context.
> It's obvious that he is not THAT serious when saying that.
> Obvious to all of us who can see the humour in the situation.
> "Well, I've might not been able to ever made a proper drum roll but I did
> quite well anyway, dontchathink?" - like.
<remainder of fabulous post reluctantly snipped>
Hooray! All hail Anders!
I nominate your post for the best of 2001. Thank you for the sound
reasoning.
Jeff U.
sodium
"Bob Martin" <ubu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:01HW.B6AA509B0...@news.earthlink.net...
sodium
"VaaThor" <vaa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010210015906...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
> >From: chewbop
>
> >>>strangeness snipped<<<
>
> I've seen Ringo do drum-rolls twice with his All-Star band several years
ago.
> They were pretty damn good, BTW.
gee, i'm not sensing a lot of supoprt for you out on the newsgroup
Chewy....:)
che...@my-deja.com
"sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:962d7i$8jf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Can you pronounce "diarrhea"? It's the same as logorrhea, only it
> > comes out the other end. Sound familiar?
>
> hehe, good joke Gerry.
Thanks.
>
> Now please, would you be so kind as let us all know who it is that is
> actually
> playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum
rolls
> ocur at precisely:
> 0'30"
> 1'17"
> 1'49"
> 2'20"
> on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
>
> And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the
16th
> note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said
rolls on
> Day Tripper are :
> 0' 14"
> 1'44"
> 2'29"
> 2'37"
>
> I look forward to your response Gerry
You can look forward to my response until the cows come home...and then
some...but it is obvious to everyone here that you have not the
slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of. Ringo knows. George
Martin knows. But you are still in the dark...as always.
che...@my-deja.com
"sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now Gerry, would you please let us all know who it is that is actually
> playing the four snare drum press rolls in Nowhere Man? These drum
rolls
> ocur at precisely:
> 0'30"
> 1'17"
> 1'49"
> 2'20"
> on the Beatle's Red Album CD.
>
> And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the
16th
> note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said
rolls on
> Day Tripper are :
> 0' 14"
> 1'44"
> 2'29"
> 2'37"
>
> I look forward to your response Gerry
Again, You can look forward to my response until the cows come
home...and then some...but it is obvious to everyone here that you have
not the slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of. Ringo
knows. George Martin knows. But you are still in the dark...as always.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
che...@my-deja.com
Bob Martin <ubu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:51:37 -0500, che...@my-deja.com wrote
> (in message <962abo$6bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>):
>
> > Because somebody has to debunk the myths!! How many times do I
have to
> > explain my mission to you?? If I don't do it, who will?
>
> Exactly what myth is it we're debunking here? The myth that several
people in
> the Beatles camp have said that Ringo can't do a proper drum roll?
Ummmm...not just "several people" in the Beatles "camp"...but Ringo
himself, and the man who knows Ringo's musical capabilities probably
better than anyone else, Sir George Martin.
> There is no widly circulated Myth that Ringo is a good drummer.
I guess you don't spend much time reading posts on this newsgroup.
>That's
> because, this calls for an opinion, making it subjective, rather than
> factual. That a VAST majority of the listening population enjoys
Ringo's
> drumming cannot be the result of some "myth". Indeed, it can only be
the
> result of actually listening and forming an opinion. Add to that mass
> uninformed opinion, the favorable opinions of virtually EVERY drummer
and
> musician that has ever heard Ringo (there are, in fact, entire web
pages to
> famous great and other musicians who just LOVE Ringo's drumming)
And there are entire web pages devoted to people like Rod McKuen
established by people who think he was one of the greatest poets. So
what's your point?
> Therefore, the drumming stands on its own, and the collective opinion
of just
> about everybody in the world except for Gerry (Chewbop) is that Ringo
is a
> great drummer.
Well, not quite. Years ago, Buddy Rich was asked on a TV talk show
about his assessment of Ringo as a drummer. He never quite finished
answering the question because he couldn't stop laughing...until they
finally cut to a commercial. So I'm in good company.
che...@my-deja.com
"Anders Viberg" <anders...@zeta.telenordia.se> wrote:
> > Anders Viberg will be posting a verbatim transcript of one of
Ringo's
> > many interviews in which he admitted he has always been incapable of
> > performing a drum roll.
>
> that quote in its original form. In its context.
> It's obvious that he is not THAT serious when saying that.
> Obvious to all of us who can see the humour in the situation.
> "Well, I've might not been able to ever made a proper drum roll but I
did
> quite well anyway, dontchathink?" - like.
Oh yeah, right. He was making a funny!! Are you saying his statement
was intended as a joke??? Are you saying that if you were to ask Ringo
whether he intended that statement as a joke, he would agree??
> > Chewbop speaking:
> >
> > Once again, you're out in left field, pal. Sorry to be so blunt
about
> > it, but sometimes it's the only thing you seem to understand. The
fact
> > remains that both Ringo and George Martin have insisted since at
least
> > 1968 that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll.
>
> Well, well, well. It used to be; "a simple drum roll", now it's "a
true drum
> roll" or "a drum roll as defined by professional musicians". You are
> changing the rules all the time.
> Pete Best could do a drum roll. Ringo couldn't, you said.
> Now... I asked you this before:
> Was Pete's drum rolls as true as "defined by professional musicians"?
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, it is obvious to anyone with an
open mind that Ringo would have been incapable of performing the type
of extended drum roll performed by Pete Best at the beginning of "My
Bonnie".
NoFliesonFrank
che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <962ccv$815$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> NoFliesonFrank <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > In article <962bn2$7gl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > In article <962ajt$6m1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > >
> > > > I don't hate *anyone* Douchey. You I find repugnant and
> flameworthy.
> > >
> > > But surely you realize by now that I...Chewbop...am flame retardant.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Oh you're retarded alright...
> >
> > Can you pronounce logorrhea?
>
> Can you pronounce "diarrhea"? It's the same as logorrhea, only it
> comes out the other end. Sound familiar?
>
>
Diarrhea's what _you need_ because you're all full of shit, Ger.
Logorrhea's what you've got because all you're putting out is
meaningless.
f
--
It is better to be hated for what you are
than to be loved for what you are not.
~ Andre Gide ~
http://sites.netscape.net/fabest
Francie's Boot: Like Body Count in 3D
che...@my-deja.com
NoFliesonFrank <shooby...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > Can you pronounce logorrhea?
> >
> > Can you pronounce "diarrhea"? It's the same as logorrhea, only it
> > comes out the other end. Sound familiar?
> >
> >
>
> Diarrhea's what _you need_ because you're all full of shit, Ger.
> Logorrhea's what you've got because all you're putting out is
> meaningless.
Ouch!!
the walrus was Danny
> if there ever was such a thing.
<<Oxford English Dictionary:
Drum Roll:
Noun - a rapid sucession of beats sounded on a drum, often used to introduce
an announcement or event.>>
Danny
robertandrews
>You can look forward to my response until the cows come home
I just saw a Holstein cow walk past the Dakota.
che...@my-deja.com
OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of a
true drum roll. But let's say it is, just for the sake of argument.
Now, given that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin
have always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum
roll? Is it because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both
telling the truth; or (c) They are both buffoons who have not the
slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of?
There can be no other choices. So which one is it? We await your
reply, though we expect the usual evasion.
Lléo
che...@my-deja.com escreveu na mensagem <9635kp$q1t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <962ht2$nsi$1...@zingo.tninet.se>,
> "Anders Viberg" <anders...@zeta.telenordia.se> wrote:
>
>Oh yeah, right. He was making a funny!! Are you saying his statement
>was intended as a joke??? Are you saying that if you were to ask Ringo
>whether he intended that statement as a joke, he would agree??
>
And what's wrong with that?
Haven't you ever told (or intended to tell) a joke in your life?
>> Well, well, well. It used to be; "a simple drum roll", now it's "a
>true drum
>> roll" or "a drum roll as defined by professional musicians". You are
>> changing the rules all the time.
>> Pete Best could do a drum roll. Ringo couldn't, you said.
>> Now... I asked you this before:
>> Was Pete's drum rolls as true as "defined by professional musicians"?
>
>I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, it is obvious to anyone with an
>open mind that Ringo would have been incapable of performing the type
>of extended drum roll performed by Pete Best at the beginning of "My
>Bonnie".
>
"Nowhere Man" springs to the mind...
Aside, there's plenty of good stuff he did besides drum rolls.
And if Pete was such a brilliant drummer, why did the Beatles replace him?
They liked to spend money on session drummers?
--
Lléo
"We'll support you ever more
Even though you never score"
Northern Ireland supporters song...
sodium
> In article <962jd1$ccp$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "sung-hi-lee" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > So heres another definiton of the humble drum roll: "The drum roll
produces a sustained sound and is achieved by striking the sticks
alternately on the
> > drumhead in an even manner (a single stroke roll) or by bouncing
alternate sticks (a double stroke roll, closed, or buzz roll)."
> OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of a
> true drum roll.
wrong. until such time as you decide to define "true", then yes it is the
defintion of a "true" drum roll.
i'm a professional musician (a major part of your criterion for a definer)
and that is my definition of a drum roll.
ergo, going by your own words, it is a valid defintion.
>But let's say it is,
ok, it is....:)
> Now, given that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin
> have always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum
> roll?
he hasnt claimed any such thing. please show us where he has done so and
i'll happily agree to answer your question..
> Is it because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both
> telling the truth; or (c) They are both buffoons who have not the
> slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of?
i'm sure you'l agree this paragraph is unaswerable until such time as you
demonstate that in fact they have actually said such a thing. after all
,yopu of all people wouldn't want us wasting our time and effort on fairy
tales, now would you?
>
> There can be no other choices.
oooo, Bad Gerry. Naughty Gerry, that's a big stinking lie and you are
contradicting yourself. why just last week you stated that there were in
fact other choices
==
Re: Qualifications of Chewy??? Author: chewbop <che...@my-deja.com>
Date: 2001/02/09 Forum: rec.music.beatles
"My question to you and everyone else here is this: Was he just "joshing"
when he said that? Please reply...."
==
and again on the 10th you asked and i repsonded :
==
Re: chewy STILL doesn't answer Author: sodium <sod...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2001/02/10 Forum: rec.music.beatles
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:960k75$lps$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Once again, was Sir George lying or joshing or telling the truth?
no problem, my answer is "he was joshing".
now fair's fair, i answered your question, now please answer mine.
who was playing the drum rolls on Nowhere Man if it wasnt Ringo
==
so you see Gerry/Chewwy, i have been playing ball with you all along,
answering any question you put before me as a prerequisite to you answering
my simple question. and yet you avoid and evade that saimple question.
so now, its time to pay the piper. you siad you would if i answered your
question, and now i ask you once again.
"who it was that played those drum rolls on Nowhere Man if in fact it wasnt
Ringo Starr?
>So which one is it? We await your reply, though we expect the usual
evasion.
and as i said "he was joshing".
now please, about the drum rolls in Nowhere Man, who was it that played them
if it was not Ringo Starr?
sodium
> In article <962f5u$2d2$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the
> 16th
> > note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said
> rolls on
> > Day Tripper are :
> > 0' 14"
> > 1'44"
> > 2'29"
> > 2'37"
> >
> > I look forward to your response Gerry
>
> You can look forward to my response until the cows come home...and then
> some.
so dissapointing Gerry. why are you being intellectually dishonest like this
Gerry?
please answer this simple question.
who played the drums on Nowhere Man?
sodium
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:96346q$p0q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > And please be so kind as to tell us precisely who actually played the
> 16th
> > note single stroke rolls on "Daytripper". Exact CD times for said
> rolls on
> > Day Tripper are :
> > 0' 14"
> > 1'44"
> > 2'29"
> > 2'37"
> >
> > I look forward to your response Gerry
>
> Again, You can look forward to my response until the cows come
> home...and then some...
so dissapointing Gerry. why are you being intellectually dishonest like this
che...@my-deja.com
"sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> and as i said "he was joshing".
And as I proved conclusively in the first post in this
thread, "joshing" or "making a funny" is not a choice for reasons I
demonstrated.
sodium
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:963ln3$4ni$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <963jb9$4ia$0...@pita.alt.net>,
> "sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > and as i said "he was joshing".
>
> And as I proved conclusively in the first post
sorry, but you have proven nothing so far.
>"joshing" or "making a funny" is not a choice for reasons I
> demonstrated.
how can that be when you yourself asked me if i thought he was "joshing" and
gave it as one of the choices in your question to me? please dont stoop to
outright lying in this thread Mr Chewwy, or maybe you're just confused..;)
now, you owe me an answer, and i'd like it please.
who was drumming and played the snare drum press rolls on Nowhere Man if it
wasnt Ringo Starr?
R.A.G. Seely
>Yikes! it's the REAL bob martin!
But why is he pretending to be na?
-= rags =-
--
To reply by email, use "@" not "__A@T__"
<rags AT math.mcgill.ca>
<http://www.math.mcgill.ca/rags>
R.A.G. Seely
>Haven't you ever told (or intended to tell) a joke in your life?
He's too busy being one ...
-= rags =-
(OK - I admit it: Chewy brings out the worst in me ...
but as a professional logician, I hate to see such
a noble tool as logic so badly abused ...
oh well ...)
Bob Martin
(in message <963bpv$tpl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>):
> OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of a true
> drum roll. But let's say it is, just for the sake of argument. Now, given
> that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin have always
> claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll? Is it
> because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both telling the truth; or
> (c) They are both buffoons who have not the slightest idea what a true drum
> roll consists of?
>
> There can be no other choices. So which one is it? We await your reply,
> though we expect the usual evasion.
So, is the MYTH that George Martin and Ringo say this? What does having the
ability to do a "true" roll have with being a great rock drummer? Or even a
great jazz drummer? Don't forget that Ringo wrote the book on this subject. I
want to know what the myth is. If everybody loves Ringo's playing, then what
is the myth?
We await your reply.
Bob Martin
Luke Pacholski
>OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of a
>true drum roll. But let's say it is, just for the sake of argument.
>Now, given that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin
>have always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum
>roll? Is it because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both
>telling the truth; or (c) They are both buffoons who have not the
>slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of?
>
>There can be no other choices. So which one is it? We await your
>reply, though we expect the usual evasion.
Sure, there's another choice:
d) They have not "always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a
true drum roll". Perhaps this is what you'd like to think, but it's not
true.
Why is it you have not responded to my posts regarding the published
account of both George Martin and Geoff Emerick saying that Ringo did
the *drum roll* for the intro of All You Need Is Love?
Luke
Luke Pacholski
>Again, You can look forward to my response until the cows come
>home...and then some...but it is obvious to everyone here that you have
>not the slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of. Ringo
>knows. George Martin knows. But you are still in the dark...as always.
No, it's *quite* obvious that *you* don't know what a drum roll is.
Otherwise you'd realize there are several on Beatles records, including
Nowhere Man, Day Tripper, and All You Need Is Love.
Luke
Bob Martin
Luke Pacholski <lukpac...@lukpac.org> wrote:
> >Again, You can look forward to my response until the cows come
> >home...and then some...but it is obvious to everyone here that you have
> >not the slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of. Ringo
> >knows. George Martin knows. But you are still in the dark...as always
So, I guess if everybody knows what a true drum roll is, and in over 40
years, Ringo has chosen to not pursue the accomplishment of a true drum
roll, then what is the point? He doesn't seem to want to play one.
Nobody seems to want to hear one.
What *EXACTLY* is the point?
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
> Well, not quite. Years ago, Buddy Rich was asked on a TV talk show
> about his assessment of Ringo as a drummer. He never quite finished
> answering the question because he couldn't stop laughing...until they
> finally cut to a commercial. So I'm in good company.
Sort of - except that Buddy Rich didn't like ANYBODY. Not just other
drummers - NOBODY. There were precious few musicians that Buddy Rich
held a good opinion of. And, I am certain that there are probably a
gaggle of classical drummers who were aghast by Buddy Rich's playing.
Rock and Roll (and jazz) is not like classical music - the only music
for which there is a set of rules.
There are no rules that are used to assess what is and is not good. If
there were, the 70's and 90's (and today's music) would have been a LOT
different.
Point is, this particular art form is all about what you like and what
you don't like. What, in your opinion works and what doesn't.
It is, after all, POPULAR music we are talking about. It is clear that
you and Buddy Rich don't like Ringo. And Gerry - that's OK. But all of
your opinions don't make Ringo a better or worse drummer. The fact that
he played in the most POPULAR band of all of POPULAR music says most of
it.
The fact that his playing appeals to MUSICIANS as well as the general
population, and that other musicians - for the most part - think that
he is great, says the rest. I am a musician, and I say Ringo is a great
drummer. I add my voice.
If Keats and Shelly and Milton lined up to sing Rod McKuen's praises,
would that make him a good poet? Maybe not - but to people who like the
stuff that Rod McKuen does, he is great. It's much different than
classical poetry.
Again, this is POP music, not classical. The rules here, are that there
are no rules. Ringo adheres to them nicely.
Get over it Chewy. You are asking everyone to rally around a subjective
call here. You are trying to tell people that they really should like
something else when, in fact, they like what they like...
Bob Martin
PS: And, for what it's worth, I know in the past that you have dissed
his time keeping. It really is pretty close to stopwatch perfect,
unless the song called for a change in timing. Then, he did that
perfectly too.
Meagen AKA SailorM
>
> But that's not the issue here...never has been...no matter how much you
> try to make it so. The issue is whether Ringo is capable of peforming
> a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians. Go back and
> read the first post in the other thread if you still don't get it.
>
Is it just me or does this seem, well, stupid? You keep going back to
this
one detail like it was a really big deal. If I may venture an analogy,
it's like concentrating on the question if an actor can pronounce a
French
"r" sound or not. Even if (note the *if* here!) Ringo is unable to make
a drum roll, what does that prove?
"Absolutely nothing. Which is what you are about to become." [Dark
Helmet]
Meagen
--
I think ah, no, I mean, ah, yes, but it's all wrong.
That is, I think I disagree. - "Strawberry Fields Forever" by the
Beatles
Bob Martin
(in message <9634ok$pc1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>):
>
>> That's
>> because, this calls for an opinion, making it subjective, rather than
>> factual. That a VAST majority of the listening population enjoys Ringo's
>> drumming cannot be the result of some "myth". Indeed, it can only be the
>> result of actually listening and forming an opinion. Add to that mass
>> uninformed opinion, the favorable opinions of virtually EVERY drummer and
>> musician that has ever heard Ringo (there are, in fact, entire web pages to
>> famous great and other musicians who just LOVE Ringo's drumming)
>
> And there are entire web pages devoted to people like Rod McKuen established
> by people who think he was one of the greatest poets. So what's your point?
Quickly, because I have spelled this out elsewhere, if the people on the web
pages singing Rod's praises were other poets whose work was universally
lauded (like Cummings, Shelly, Milton, Keats, Shakesphere) then it might just
validate Rod McKuen. Would it make him a better poet? Nah. Would it redefine
what constitutes good poetry? Most definitely. Rock and roll is like McKuen.
No rules.
These web pages have the best of the best singing Ringo's praises. I can show
you several hundred other great musicians who think that Ringo is great. You
can show me one cantankerous old drummer who hated everybody but himself, who
laughed when asked about Ringo's abilities. Why not tell us all what Buddy
Rich said about Jake Hannah, or Billy Cobham, or Gene Krupa, or Max Roach, or
any other drummers? He hated them all - because he thought that he - Buddy
Rich - was the best drummer in the world. If you can even line up 5 other
musicans, against the hundreds that I can muster in support of Ringo, I would
be surprised.
Go ahead and try. Again - what exactly is the MYTH?
Bob Martin
Bob Martin
(in message <962urk$bca$0...@dosa.alt.net>):
> Yikes! it's the REAL bob martin!
Uh oh.
I haven't been around for a while. Has somebody been pretending to be me, by
any chance? Ala the Marek - sort - of - stuff?
Bob
Danny Caccavo
<ubu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sort of - except that Buddy Rich didn't like ANYBODY. Not just other
> drummers - NOBODY. There were precious few musicians that Buddy Rich
> held a good opinion of. And, I am certain that there are probably a
> gaggle of classical drummers who were aghast by Buddy Rich's playing.
Anyway, Buddy Rich had no feel. He was an amazing technician. So of
course he laughed at Ringo - who was all feel, with limited technique.
DC
--
Danny Caccavo
dcac...@nyc.rr.com
"For your information, it IS a baby eagle"
Danny Caccavo
The thing is, when someone says they "can't do a drum roll", that can
mean "can't do a drum roll properly" - and there are many instances on
Beatles records where the rolls are pretty lame - "Ticket to ride", "Day
Tripper", there are more.
che...@my-deja.com
Meagen AKA SailorM <mea...@fcmail.com> wrote:
> Is it just me or does this seem, well, stupid? You keep going back to
> this
> one detail like it was a really big deal. If I may venture an analogy,
> it's like concentrating on the question if an actor can pronounce a
> French
> "r" sound or not. Even if (note the *if* here!) Ringo is unable to
make
> a drum roll, what does that prove?
Well, for one thing, it proves that Ringo is not a liar...because
that's what he's been accused of by some here. You see, Ringo has
always maintained that he cannot perform a drum roll, but many here
have accused him of being less than truthful on that score. Go figure.
It also proves that Ringo...by his own admission...was never capable of
mastering the basic technical skills of drumming. Paul
McCartney...according to no less than John Lennon...was a better
drummer than Ringo, both technically and otherwise.
It also proves that George Martin is not a liar, either, as some here
have maintained.
R.A.G. Seely
<01HW.B6AAF5980...@news.earthlink.net>:
>I haven't been around for a while. Has somebody been pretending to be
>me, by any chance? Ala the Marek - sort - of - stuff?
No - someone (Chewy) pretends to think that someone else (na) is really
you. No one has been pretending to be you, though.
-= rags =-
che...@my-deja.com
Danny Caccavo <dcac...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> The thing is, when someone says they "can't do a drum roll", that can
> mean "can't do a drum roll properly" - and there are many instances
on
> Beatles records where the rolls are pretty lame - "Ticket to
ride", "Day
> Tripper", there are more.
Excellent point, Danny!!! I guess I am getting through after all!!
Please expand your comments, if you would. Your words will carry more
weight than mine with certain elements in this newsgroup.
Mister Charlie
a lot, I would like to hear his definition of lame as I would like to
hear your definition of true drum roll. Sounds like a simple opinon to
me, Chew, not proof for your Great Lie.
Jeff U.
> In article <962jd1$ccp$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> >
> >
> > "The drum roll produces a sustained sound and is achieved by striking
> the
> > sticks alternately on the drumhead in an even manner (a single stroke
> roll)
> > or by bouncing alternate sticks (a double stroke roll, closed, or buzz
> > roll)."
>
> OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of a
> true drum roll. But let's say it is, just for the sake of argument.
> Now, given that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin
> have always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum
> roll? Is it because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both
> telling the truth; or (c) They are both buffoons who have not the
> slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of?
>
> There can be no other choices. So which one is it? We await your
> reply, though we expect the usual evasion.
*YAWN*
Jeff U.
Jeff U.
> In article <963jb9$4ia$0...@pita.alt.net>,
> "sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > and as i said "he was joshing".
>
> And as I proved conclusively in the first post in this
> thread, "joshing" or "making a funny" is not a choice for reasons I
> demonstrated.
Douchebop, the only thing you've ever proved to this group is what a pompus
asshole you are.
Jeff U.
Jeff U.
> In article <3A8585E1...@fcmail.com>,
> Paul McCartney...according to no less than John Lennon...was a better
> drummer than Ringo, both technically and otherwise.
I simply cannot believe you still cling to this statement. Can't you
understand that John's comment was a dig at Paul? If you truly believe that
Lennon thought Paul was a better drummer than Ringo, there is no hope for
you.
It's plain to everyone here that you cannot comprehend the written word.
Over and over you fail to correctly interpret the meaning of quoted
statements. Amazing.
Jeff U.
Luke Pacholski
>Well, for one thing, it proves that Ringo is not a liar...because
>that's what he's been accused of by some here. You see, Ringo has
>always maintained that he cannot perform a drum roll, but many here
>have accused him of being less than truthful on that score. Go figure.
No, Ringo has never stated "as fact" that he cannot do a drum roll. Any
comments regarding this were simply meant to express the fact that Ringo
was never a "technical" drummer.
I don't believe anyone here has called Ringo a liar. *You* have claimed
that others have called him a liar, but nobody has actually said that.
There are a lot of drum rolls on Beatles songs. How do you explain that?
>It also proves that George Martin is not a liar, either, as some here
>have maintained.
Well, George Martin never flat out stated Ringo could not do a drum
roll. In fact, Martin has said *on record* that Ringo has performed drum
rolls on Beatles records. So, considering Beatles records have drum
rolls, I guess he isn't a liar...
Luke
Lléo
che...@my-deja.com escreveu na mensagem <964352$f7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>
>It also proves that Ringo...by his own admission...was never capable of
>mastering the basic technical skills of drumming. Paul
>McCartney...according to no less than John Lennon...was a better
>drummer than Ringo, both technically and otherwise.
>
Oh yeah?
Straight from 1980 Playboy Interview:
*****
PLAYBOY: Let's move on to Ringo. What's your opinion of him musically?
LENNON: Ringo was a star in his own right in Liverpool before we even met.
He was a professional drummer who sang and performed and had Ringo Star-time
and he was in one of the top groups in Britain but especially in Liverpool
before we even had a drummer. So Ringo's talent would have come out one way
or the other as something or other. I don't know what he would have ended up
as, but whatever that spark is in Ringo that we all know but can't put our
finger on --
whether it is acting, drumming or singing I don't know -- there is something
in him that is projectable and he would have surfaced with or without the
Beatles. Ringo is a damn good drummer. He is not technically good, but I
think Ringo's drumming is underrated the same way Paul's bass playing is
underrated. Paul was one of the most innovative bass players ever. And half
the stuff that is going on now is directly ripped off from his Beatles
period. He is an egomaniac about everything else about himself, but his bass
playing he was always a bit coy about. I think Paul and Ringo stand up with
any of the rock musicians. Not technically great -- none of us are technical
musicians. None of us could read music. None of us can write it. But as pure
musicians, as inspired humans to make the noise, they are as good as
anybody.
*****
I feel I should quote the following parts:
"Ringo is a damn good drummer"
"I think Paul and Ringo stand up with any of the rock musicians"
According to no less than John Lennon...
Ah, side note: do you really think that Paul's drumming on "Back in the
USSR", "Dear Prudence" and "Ballad of J & Y" was technically heads and
shoulders above Ringo's? I don't recall *true* drum rolls on these songs...
And before you ask, no, I'm not calling John Lennon a liar.
--
Lléo
"We'll support you ever more
Even though you never score"
Northern Ireland supporters song...
Anders Viberg
> > It's obvious that he is not THAT serious when saying that.
> > Obvious to all of us who can see the humour in the situation.
> > "Well, I've might not been able to ever made a proper drum roll but I
> did
> > quite well anyway, dontchathink?" - like.
>
> Oh yeah, right. He was making a funny!! Are you saying his statement
> was intended as a joke??? Are you saying that if you were to ask Ringo
> whether he intended that statement as a joke, he would agree??
Yes, yes and yes.
> > Was Pete's drum rolls as true as "defined by professional musicians"?
>
> I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, it is obvious to anyone with an
> open mind that Ringo would have been incapable of performing the type
> of extended drum roll performed by Pete Best at the beginning of "My
> Bonnie".
"Extended" drum roll?
What the hell is an "extended" drum roll?
Please tell us the difference in the "drum roll" in "My Bonnie" from the
ones in "Nowhere Man".
Technically speaking that is.
If the "roll" in "My Bonnie" is "extended" why is the ones in "Nowhere Man"
NOT "extended" or rather why is the roll in "My Bonnie a roll when the rolls
in "Nowhere Man" isn't.... rolls?
Both are exactly one bar long.
What is the difference?
I'm quite surprised you replied to my post at all Chewie-Chewie .
But I asked you around a dozen questions.
You answered one but not in a satisfactory way.
I asked you if "Pete's drum rolls were as true as "defined by professional
musicians"?"
You didn't answer.
Again you said that Ringo was not capable of doing a drum roll like that.
That was not the question.
Was Pete able to a drum roll as "defined by professional musicians"?
That IS the question.
So, again you avoided all questions when it doesn't suit you and your
purpose.
But we knew that already.
/Anders
Anders Viberg
<che...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> It also proves that Ringo...by his own admission...was never capable of
> mastering the basic technical skills of drumming.
Eh, I thought you said that Ringo never made a "self-deprecating remark
about his drumming ability."
> Paul McCartney...according to no less than John Lennon...was a better
> drummer than Ringo, both technically and otherwise.
Mmm, if you REALLY believe that Paul is a better drummer because of an
(again) ironically meant statement, well... it says more about you than
anything else.
Do you have a hearing problem?
Please name one example of Paul's drumming being better (technically or
otherwise) than an average Ringo performance.
How about this quote from 1980:
------------------------------------------
PLAYBOY: Let's move on to Ringo. What's your opinion of him musically?
LENNON: Ringo was a star in his own right in Liverpool before we even met.
He was a professional drummer who sang and performed and had Ringo Star-time
and he was in one of the top groups in Britain but especially in Liverpool
before we even had a drummer. So Ringo's talent would have come out one way
or the other as something or other. I don't know what he would have ended up
as, but whatever that spark is in Ringo that we all know but can't put our
finger on -- whether it is acting, drumming or singing I don't know -- there
is something in him that is projectable and he would have surfaced with or
without the Beatles. Ringo is a damn good drummer. He is not technically
good, but I think Ringo's drumming is underrated the same way Paul's bass
playing is underrated. Paul was one of the most innovative bass players
ever. And half the stuff that is going on now is directly ripped off from
his Beatles period. He is an egomaniac about everything else about himself,
but his bass playing he was always a bit coy about. I think Paul and Ringo
stand up with any of the rock musicians. Not technically great -- none of us
are technical musicians. None of us could read music. None of us can write
it. But as pure musicians, as inspired humans to make the noise, they are as
good as anybody.
-------------------------------------------
What about it?
John Lennon: "Ringo is a damn good drummer"
We await your reply but expect the usual silence.
/Anders
Chele
"Paul was dubbing Ringo's drumming
John was dubbing Ringo's humming
Rumor's were starting to fly" - from the song Ringo buys a rifle
(By the way, hi everyone I'm new here)
Michele
"This will take a special blend of psychology and extreme violence."
Vyvyan, The Young Ones
sodium
news:dcaccavo-D10533...@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
> The thing is, when someone says they "can't do a drum roll", that can
> mean "can't do a drum roll properly" - and there are many instances on
> Beatles records where the rolls are pretty lame - "Ticket to ride", "Day
> Tripper", there are more.
with respect, that's bullshit.
the rolls on Nowhere Man and Day Tripper are great. Nowhere Mans buzz rolls
are effortless and consise. Day Tripper's 16th note rolls on the hanging tom
is perfectly executed.
the rolls on these tracks alone are not lame by any means.
sodium
> In article <100220011309255898%ubu...@earthlink.net>, Bob Martin
> <ubu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Sort of - except that Buddy Rich didn't like ANYBODY. Not just other
> > drummers - NOBODY. There were precious few musicians that Buddy Rich
> > held a good opinion of. And, I am certain that there are probably a
> > gaggle of classical drummers who were aghast by Buddy Rich's playing.
>
> Anyway, Buddy Rich had no feel.
man, where are you pulling this stuff out of?
sure Buddy was a clinician, but to say he had "no feel" is absurd.
i suggest another listen to some of Buddy's great tracks may be in order.
sodium
news:01HW.B6AAF5980...@news.earthlink.net...
heh no. anyone who put it to chewwy for some solid responses is
automatically branded as being "Bob Martin" by Douchbop.
i dont know what you did to him bob, but you sure rattled his cage
allright......:)
sodium
> mastering the basic technical skills of drumming. Paul
> McCartney...according to no less than John Lennon...was a better
> drummer than Ringo, both technically and otherwise.
if you believe that, then
a. you have no ears.
b. youre a moron.
oh wait a minute, youre Chewbop!
che...@my-deja.com
Luke Pacholski <lukpac...@lukpac.org> wrote:
> In article <964352$f7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, che...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Well, for one thing, it proves that Ringo is not a liar...because
> >that's what he's been accused of by some here. You see, Ringo has
> >always maintained that he cannot perform a drum roll, but many here
> >have accused him of being less than truthful on that score. Go
figure.
>
> No, Ringo has never stated "as fact" that he cannot do a drum roll.
I guess you haven't bothered to read the interview transcript posted by
Anders Viberg.
>Any
> comments regarding this were simply meant to express the fact that
Ringo
> was never a "technical" drummer.
So in other words, Ringo was lying when he said he has never been able
to do a drum roll....right?
> I don't believe anyone here has called Ringo a liar. *You* have
claimed
> that others have called him a liar, but nobody has actually said that.
Then you're saying he simply doesn't know what he's talking
about...right?
> There are a lot of drum rolls on Beatles songs. How do you explain
that?
I explain that by pointing out that you have not the slightest clue as
to what a true drum roll consists of.
> Well, George Martin never flat out stated Ringo could not do a drum
> roll.
Obviously, you've never bother to read the Beatles authorized biography
by Hunter Davies....and you consider yourself an educated Beatles fan?
Bob Martin
(in message <964lip$oh7$0...@dosa.alt.net>):
> heh no. anyone who put it to chewwy for some solid responses is
> automatically branded as being "Bob Martin" by Douchbop.
>
> i dont know what you did to him bob, but you sure rattled his cage
> allright......:)
Well thanks. I consider that a compliment. All I did was chase every post
Chewie put up for a couple months, and presented the facts, complete with
sited evidence. I was relentless, and eventually he stopped foisting his
fantasies as facts. I did this once before when he was trying to heave some
mis-truths under the moniker "Zekelo" about whether Ringo played on the
release of Please Please Me (he did). I had hoped we were done with him, as
it takes ridiculous amounts of energy to render him harmless.
Ayway, in the wake of all the Marek crap, I bowed out of this newsgroup for a
while. I figured I'd duck my head in yesterday, and I saw that Gerry has
everyone at it again - a king mixer, he is. I don't know why he hates Ringo
so much. He actually believes that Pete Best was a better drummer!
Anywag, that's the short and small of it.
Bob Martin
Luke Pacholski
>I guess you haven't bothered to read the interview transcript posted by
>Anders Viberg.
Here we go:
>Ringo: I 'still' can't do a roll. I think I freaked George out because of
>the way I played the demo on "Please Please Me" There I was playing the
>kit with bass drum, snare, toms, high hats, and at the same time I had a
>tambourine in one hand and a maraca in the other. I could see George in
>the control booth shaking his head and thinking, "NOOOOOOOOOO, I DON'T
>THINK THAT'S VERY PROFESSIONAL," or whatever he thought. Then he brought
>in a professional drummer, Andy White, who plays on the single of "Love Me
>Do", and I play on the album version.
Now, first of all, we all know Ringo plays drums on the *single*
version, not the LP version. So is Ringo then a liar?
As for the quote "I 'still' can't do a roll", it is obvious Ringo was
not being 100% serious, as he has in fact played many drum rolls through
the years. If you'd rather not listen to the songs themselves, that's
your problem, but the rolls are there.
>So in other words, Ringo was lying when he said he has never been able
>to do a drum roll....right?
No, Ringo was joking.
>Then you're saying he simply doesn't know what he's talking
>about...right?
Nope. I'm saying Ringo has a sense of humor.
>I explain that by pointing out that you have not the slightest clue as
>to what a true drum roll consists of.
I have two comments:
1) There are drum rolls on several Beatles songs.
2) Fill us in with your definition of a "true" drum roll. How is it any
different from the drum rolls featured on a number of Beatles songs,
such as Day Tripper, Nowhere Man, and All You Need Is Love?
>Obviously, you've never bother to read the Beatles authorized biography
>by Hunter Davies....and you consider yourself an educated Beatles fan?
Obviously you've never read "Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn,
probably the most acclaimed Beatles book out there. In it both George
Martin and Geoff Emerick state out flatly that Ringo overdubbed the drum
roll on All You Need Is Love. Are you saying that both Martin and
Emerick are *liars*?
For that matter, are you calling me a liar?
Luke
jm...@my-deja.com
ra...@math.mcgill.ca wrote:
> "sodium" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote in <962cft$p4p$0...@dosa.alt.net>:
>
> >"R.A.G. Seely" <rags__A@T__math.mcgill.ca> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9043E0C4DEE8Dli...@192.26.210.18...
> >> che...@my-deja.com wrote in <962abo$6bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
> >> >If you're referring to RAG Seely (your description, not mine),
probably
> >> >not. I've asked him countless times whether he thinks Ringo and
Sir
> >> >George are lying or telling the truth. Still no direct answer.
> >>
> >> By gum! I never thought it possible, but I think I got to him! ...
> >> (Oh yes - and Chewy: I don't think Ringo and Sir George are lying
or
> >> telling the truth - is that direct enough?)
> >
> >RAGS applies chaos theory to Chewwy!
> >
> >LOL!
> >
>
> I feel like I'm on a roll here ...
Yah, but is it a "true" roll..?
:-)
jaMesa
R.A.G. Seely
Oh yes - even as defined by a professional (t)roller ...
Alex Van Starrex
well-known) recording?
--
Personal replies welcome - but no flames or spams.
* Personal website: http://homepages.tig.com.au/~avanstar
"The best personal site on the Web"- Sydney Morning Herald
http://smh.com.au/9909/25/showcase.html
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http://www.geocities.com/avanstar
S.E. Ostrow
Possibilities:
1. he is carefully listening to "All You Need Is Love", "Nowhere Man", and
"Ticket to Ride", making notes as he comes to the places so painstakingly
marked for him, and determining what sort of noise that is coming from
Ringo's kit
2. He's suing the Pillsbury Doughboy because the crescent rolls are really
something else.
richf...@my-deja.com
che...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <962jd1$ccp$0...@dosa.alt.net>,
> "sung-hi-lee" <sod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > So heres another definiton of the humble drum roll:
> >
> > "The drum roll produces a sustained sound and is achieved by
> > striking the
> > sticks alternately on the drumhead in an even manner (a single
> > stroke roll)
> > or by bouncing alternate sticks (a double stroke roll, closed, or
> > buzz roll)."
>
> OK, that will do for a start...even though it's not the definition of
> a true drum roll. But let's say it is, just for the sake of argument.
> Now, given that definition, why do you suppose Ringo and George Martin
> have always claimed that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum
> roll? Is it because: (a) They are both liars; (b) They are both
> telling the truth; or (c) They are both buffoons who have not the
> slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of?
>
Chewie your logic is really flawed here. Your opponents in the
argument need not answer this question to support their proposition
that Ringo could play one. It may be an interesting side question -
why did they say this? (We're all waiting for evidence from you that
they said it, but let's put that aside from now.) But it doesn't
change the fact that if they can demonstrate that Ringo ACTUALLY played
drum rolls, that really supports the claim that he is capable of
playing one. So the burden is on YOU now to respond about the specific
drum rolls already cited! You'd need to somehow show that those aren't
drum rolls, or that Ringo didn't play them! The issue of whether
George Martin or Ringo have said that he couldn't, is a red herring.
richforman
Luke Pacholski
>Chewie your logic is really flawed here. Your opponents in the
>argument need not answer this question to support their proposition
>that Ringo could play one. It may be an interesting side question -
>why did they say this? (We're all waiting for evidence from you that
>they said it, but let's put that aside from now.) But it doesn't
>change the fact that if they can demonstrate that Ringo ACTUALLY played
>drum rolls, that really supports the claim that he is capable of
>playing one. So the burden is on YOU now to respond about the specific
>drum rolls already cited! You'd need to somehow show that those aren't
>drum rolls, or that Ringo didn't play them! The issue of whether
>George Martin or Ringo have said that he couldn't, is a red herring.
Well, I still have yet to see said George Martin quotes, and in fact,
Martin even stated that Ringo performed the drum roll on All You Need Is
Love.
What else is there?
Luke
dog...@gmail.com
> The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll has gone
> way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this issue to rest
> finally and forever.
>
> Anders Viberg will be posting a verbatim transcript of one of Ringo's
> many interviews in which he admitted he has always been incapable of
> performing a drum roll. Someone else has already agreed to post the
> excerpt from the Beatles' authorized biography in which George Martin
> also stated that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll. But
> until then, here is an indication of just how low this debate has
> descended:
>
> RAGS Seely (?) posted the following diatribe on the thread
> entitled "What are Chewie's Qualifications?":
>
> "I'll try again! This debate isn't really about who said what! Ringo
> may have said he couldn't do a drum roll, George Martin may have said
> that, the Pope may have said it, for all it matters. The fact is,
> whether they said it or not doesn't address the question as to whether
> he can or not, much less whether or not he was a good drummer for the
> band. Chewy has never allowed the debate to stay on the musical
> plane, 'cause he cannot handle that - he always brings it back to who
> said what. As if that really matters, when we can use our ears.
> (There are all sorts of reasons why someone might say Ringo cannot do a
> drum roll, consistent with their not being liars and consistent with
> his actually being able to do one. And it is consistent with his not
> being able to do a drum roll that he nevertheless was an excellent
> drummer for the band. Don't lose sight of the essential points, don't
> let your debating opponent choose the grounds of the debate so as to
> avoid the real issues.)"
>
> I think it is perfectly clear that Chewy isn't interested in the music,
> not at least as far as his posts to rmb are concerned.
>
> [End of RAGS Seely Quote]
>
> Chewbop speaking:
>
> Once again, you're out in left field, pal. Sorry to be so blunt about
> it, but sometimes it's the only thing you seem to understand. The fact
> remains that both Ringo and George Martin have insisted since at least
> 1968 that Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll.
>
> Now, you may believe in your heart of hearts that Ringo is a great
> drummer. Fine. A lot of people also believe that Rod McKuen was a
> great poet. People can...and will...believe whatever turns them on.
> And I think we both agree that believing something subjective like
> whether Ringo was a great drummer is strictly a matter of taste and
> opinion.
>
> But that's not the issue here...never has been...no matter how much you
> try to make it so. The issue is whether Ringo is capable of peforming
> a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians. Go back and
> read the first post in the other thread if you still don't get it.
>
> Now, the question of whether Ringo is capable...or not capable...of
> performing a true drum roll is NOT a question of subjective taste, or
> opinion, or belief. It is a question of fact. Either Ringo can
> perform a true drum roll as defined by professional musicians...or he
> cannot. There is no in-between or gray area here. Are you still with
> me?
>
> Ringo has directly stated many, many times over the years that he is
> incapable of performing a true drum roll. George Martin, who worked
> with Ringo for years, has also stated directly many, many times that
> Ringo is incapable of performing a true drum roll. Martin first said
> it publicly in 1968...AFTER the Beatles had recorded "All You Need is
> Love", "Nowhere Man" and all the rest.
>
> Therefore, one of the following has to be true. There are no other
> possible conclusions: (1) Ringo and George Martin are liars; (2) Ringo
> and George Martin are telling the truth...however repellent you may
> find that truth to be; or (3) Ringo and George Martin are a couple of
> buffoons who have either lost touch with reality or have not the
> slightest idea what a true drum roll consists of.
>
> There are no other possibilities. Agreed? It's no good saying that
> Ringo was joshing..or that George Martin was "making a funny"...because
> then we have to reconcile that possibility with two facts: (1) Ringo
> has NEVER ever publicly made a self-deprecating remark about his
> drumming ability. Frankly, he can't afford to. I challenge anyone to
> produce such a quote. And (2) George Martin has NEVER "made a funny"
> in any interview he's ever granted or any book he's ever written.
> However well-known and respected he might be, he is NOT remembered for
> his sense of humor.
>
> Therefore, we can safely eliminate the possibility that Ringo was
> joshing or that George Martin was making a funny. Still with me?
>
> Then you went on to say:
>
> "There are all sorts of reasons why someone might say Ringo cannot do a
> drum roll, consistent with their not being liars and consistent with
> his actually being able to do one."
>
> LOL. Pray, do tell us what they might be, RAGS!!
>
> And finally, you said:
>
> "And it is consistent with his not being able to do a drum roll that he
> nevertheless was an excellent drummer for the band. Don't lose sight
> of the essential points, don't let your debating opponent choose the
> grounds of the debate so as to avoid the real issues."
>
> RAGS, clearly you did NOT paticipate in the debating club in high
> school, as you clearly don't understand the nature of debating. In
> just two sentence above, you decided to completely ignore the true
> issue and create a diversionary issue of your own. Had you tried to
> pull such a stunt on a high school debating team, you would have been
> cut from the team after tryouts. Go back and read the very first post
> on the thread "What are Chewie's Qualifications?" That post clearly
> stated the issue to be debated, and it is still the issue under debate
> no matter how much you try to change it.
>
> The question still is: Can Ringo perform a true drum roll as defined
> by professional musicians?
>
> And were Ringo and George Martin lying...or telling the truth...when
> they said many times over the years that Ringo is not capable of
>
> drummer or a lousy drummer. You may have tried to frame the debate
> that way, but that's got nothing to do with the issue at hand.
>
> Are you still with me, RAGS?
I have always thought this to be such a BS argument. There are plenty of Beatles songs where Ringo excels at playing drumroll. "Nowhere Man," "Day Tripper," "Oh, Darling," are a few that come to mind. And his press rolls were some of the best. Very precise and intricate. When commenting on Ringo's skill as a drummer, too many people base their opinions on repeated falsehoods, instead of commenting on what is experienced when you actually listen to his playing.
Nil
> On Friday, February 9, 2001 6:00:10 PM UTC-6, che...@my-deja.com
> wrote:
>> The debate about Ringo's inability to perform a true drum roll
>> has gone way beyond the original issue. It is time to put this
>> issue to rest finally and forever.
> plenty of Beatles songs where Ringo excels at playing drumroll.
> "Nowhere Man," "Day Tripper," "Oh, Darling," are a few that come
> to mind. And his press rolls were some of the best. Very precise
> and intricate. When commenting on Ringo's skill as a drummer, too
> many people base their opinions on repeated falsehoods, instead of
> commenting on what is experienced when you actually listen to his
> playing.
years ago?
RichL
news:XnsA300D047...@wheedledeedle.moc...
> Do you realize you're dredging up an old "debate" from over 13
> years ago?
Inyo
news:fa3e8546-c7ba-4811...@googlegroups.com...
I have always thought this to be such a BS argument. There are plenty of
Beatles songs where Ringo excels at playing drumroll. "Nowhere Man," "Day
Tripper," "Oh, Darling," are a few that come to mind. And his press rolls
were some of the best. Very precise and intricate. When commenting on
Ringo's skill as a drummer, too many people base their opinions on repeated
falsehoods, instead of commenting on what is experienced when you actually
listen to his playing.
First off, let's define and demonstrate what a drum roll actually is.
Watch the following video over at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcCSm543hTk
for a tutorial. One will plainly observe there that even a child can execute
a drum roll...grin. Actually, by the way, this is an excellent example,
because the drummer in this particular video grips the sticks the same way
Ringo does (matched style, not traditional).
So, what have we learned, class? Does this sound like anything Ringo ever
played on a Beatles record--and, in addition, does it match anything Ringo
is caught on camera playing live while with The Beatles? Just askin', that's
all.
But, in all fairness, one must also inquire whether Ringo was ever
specifically requested by producer George Martin, or any other member of The
Beatles, to execute a drum roll on a Beatles record--to which request Ringo
either admitted, or at least convincingly evinced, that he couldn't play a
drum roll (many have reported that Ringo has for the record stated that he
can't play a drum roll). Just askin' questions. Just tryin' to push closer
to the truth here, that's all.
Another pertinent line of inquiry is pretty much this--if we so stipulate
that Ringo cannot play a drum roll, does that fact alone diminish in any way
his overall effectiveness (even artistry) on drums while with The Beatles?
http://inyo.coffeecup.com/site/acoustic/allinyoallthetime.html
"All Inyo All The Time"--all of my acoustic 6 and 12-string guitar playing
available on the Net.
jtees4
*************
Some of my music:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=789610