The 100 greatest guitarists of all time by Rolling Stone magazine
Mackenzie
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time
1 Jimi Hendrix
2 Duane Allman of the Allman Brothers Band
3 B.B. King
4 Eric Clapton
5 Robert Johnson
6 Chuck Berry
7 Stevie Ray Vaughan
8 Ry Cooder
9 Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin
10 Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones
11 Kirk Hammett of Metallica
12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana
13 Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead
14 Jeff Beck
15 Carlos Santana
16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones
17 Jack White of the White Stripes
18 John Frusciante of the Red Hot Chili Peppers
19 Richard Thompson
20 James Burton
21 George Harrison
22 Mike Bloomfield
23 Warren Haynes
24 The Edge of U2
25 Freddy King
26 Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave
27 Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits
28 Stephen Stills
29 Ron Asheton of the Stooges
30 Buddy Guy
31 Dick Dale
32 John Cipollina of Quicksilver Messenger Service
33 & 34 Lee Ranaldo, Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth
35 John Fahey
36 Steve Cropper of Booker T. and the MG's
37 Bo Diddley
38 Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac
39 Brian May of Queen
40 John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
41 Clarence White of the Byrds
42 Robert Fripp of King Crimson
43 Eddie Hazel of Funkadelic
44 Scotty Moore
45 Frank Zappa
46 Les Paul
47 T-Bone Walker
48 Joe Perry of Aerosmith
49 John McLaughlin
50 Pete Townshend
51 Paul Kossoff of Free
52 Lou Reed
53 Mickey Baker
54 Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane
55 Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple
56 Tom Verlaine of Television
57 Roy Buchanan
58 Dickey Betts
59 & 60 Jonny Greenwood, Ed O'Brien of Radiohead
61 Ike Turner
62 Zoot Horn Rollo of the Magic Band
63 Danny Gatton
64 Mick Ronson
65 Hubert Sumlin
66 Vernon Reid of Living Colour
67 Link Wray
68 Jerry Miller of Moby Grape
69 Steve Howe of Yes
70 Eddie Van Halen
71 Lightnin' Hopkins
72 Joni Mitchell
73 Trey Anastasio of Phish
74 Johnny Winter
75 Adam Jones of Tool
76 Ali Farka Toure
77 Henry Vestine of Canned Heat
78 Robbie Robertson of the Band
79 Cliff Gallup of the Blue Caps (1997)
80 Robert Quine of the Voidoids
81 Derek Trucks
82 David Gilmour of Pink Floyd
83 Neil Young
84 Eddie Cochran
85 Randy Rhoads
86 Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath
87 Joan Jett
88 Dave Davies of the Kinks
89 D. Boon of the Minutemen
90 Glen Buxton of Alice Cooper
91 Robby Krieger of the Doors
92 & 93 Fred "Sonic" Smith, Wayne Kramer of the MC5
94 Bert Jansch
95 Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine
96 Angus Young of AC/DC
97 Robert Randolph
98 Leigh Stephens of Blue Cheer
99 Greg Ginn of Black Flag
100 Kim Thayil of Soundgarden
Mackenzie
guitarists listed? What do you all think?
2nz Vs Floons
> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
Lou Reed?
I think not.
The World Wide Wade
The World Wide Wade
Mackenzie <jade...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 24 The Edge of U2
This guy has one lick, which he plys over and over, a jingle-jangle
boring rut, saved - at times - only by electronic gadgetry.
BlackMonk
"Mackenzie" <jade...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187729764.8...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>
If there had been more guitarists listed, it would have been a pretty bad
top 100 list.
Andrew Schulman
> I got this from Rolling Stone magazine.
>
>
Andrew
RichL
I recently posted the following in a different thread (in a different
context, but it makes sense here):
"See, that's the thing. If you're a guitarist, you know it makes no sense
to
rank famous ones on a linear scale from best to worst. Is Jimi Hendrix
better than Django Reinhardt? The question is impossible to answer
objectively since there are such different styles of playing involved. One
guitarist's playing may be more difficult for one of us to replicate than
the other one, but that doesn't mean that the same applies to all guitarists
across the board."
Besides, the list is far too rock/pop heavy. But overall, it's just another
silly list, another set of opinions that mean nothing objectively.
O'Leary III
> If there had been more guitarists listed, it would have been a pretty bad
> top 100 list.
Yup. 100 feels right for a top 100 list.
O'Leary III
> I got this from Rolling Stone magazine. Here is the website:
What? No Fripp?
Jeff
> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
depends who responded to this "Pole" ( or whatever you call it) at the
time they took it. Poll an hour or two or three later and your answers
will all be different. Songs are WAY more important than guitarists.
anyway. Without songwriters, these guitarists are nothing on their
own. Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix..who mostly
played three or 4 chord rock..with the same old blues progressions
like Stevie Ray Vaughn..mostly in the key of E. I didn't see
Tommy Bolin on this list. If he was..excuse me..but he's way better
than most guitarists on this list. So there! :-)
O'Leary III
> I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
> depends who responded to this "Pole"
OK. Quick one.
Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
dgs
news:87ydnVpm6tGQw1bb...@comcast.com...
> Mackenzie wrote:
>
>> I got this from Rolling Stone magazine. Here is the website:
>
>
> What? No Fripp?
From the list:
42 Robert Fripp of King Crimson
What, no Peter Banks? George Benson? Wes Montgomery? Joe Pass?
Larry Coryell? Phil Manzanera?
--
dgs
O'Leary III
>>What? No Fripp?
>
>
> From the list:
> 42 Robert Fripp of King Crimson
Thank you. Missed it.
> What, no Peter Banks? George Benson? Wes Montgomery? Joe Pass?
> Larry Coryell? Phil Manzanera?
Oooo. Manzanera.
Tom K
"Jeff" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 21, 3:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
>> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>
Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
> even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
> no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix.
Whike I agree with you, and appearently everybody else, that these lists are
boring and irrelevant, this staement is flat out wrong. Hendrix out-rocked,
out-psycadelisized, out-bluesed and out-composed Clapton in every way, and
EC would be the first to tell you that!
.who mostly
> played three or 4 chord rock..with the same old blues progressions
Do you know "Castles Made of Sand" or "1983...(A Merman I Should Turn To
Be)/Moon Turn The Tides...gently gently away"
You can not like them, your loss, but don't drop your pants in
public..................
So there.
me
And where was Ty Tabor? and Alvin Lee?
O'Leary III
> And where was Ty Tabor? and Alvin Lee?
Not my day to watch them.
Mackenzie
> "See, that's the thing. If you're a guitarist, you know it makes no sense
> to
> rank famous ones on a linear scale from best to worst. Is Jimi Hendrix
> better than Django Reinhardt?
I often wondered how they judged these guitarists and what
characteristics they had to have to get on the list in the first
place. But overall, the best is purely subjective. I think Rolling
Stone also published 100 best drummers of all time, but I can't find
it anywhere. It's always interesting to see these lists.
Mackenzie
>Stone also published 100 best drummers of all time,
Well I've found this from rankopedia:
http://www.rankopedia.com/ZoneID=3/Step1/62.htm?origin=GoogleMusic&gclid=CKSzs_Hjh44CFQEtZQod2UyqFg
I think this this is better because it's based on who inspires you the
most. The motto here is the best drummer is the one who inspires the
most.
crazytimes
> 21 George Harrison
> 22 Mike Bloomfield
> 24 The Edge of U2
> 36 Steve Cropper of Booker T. and the MG's
> 37 Bo Diddley
> 38 Peter Green of Fleetwood Ma
> 42 Robert Fripp of King Crimson
> 44 Scotty Moore
> 45 Frank Zappa
> 46 Les Paul
> 47 T-Bone Walker
> 49 John McLaughlin
> 50 Pete Townshend
> 54 Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane
> 55 Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple
> 64 Mick Ronson
> 67 Link Wray
> 70 Eddie Van Halen
> 78 Robbie Robertson of the Band
> 79 Cliff Gallup of the Blue Caps (1997)
The fact that the three below are on the list ranked above the guys
listed above shows me this list is BS, if not a joke...
16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones
17 Jack White of the White Stripes
18 John Frusciante of the Red Hot Chili Peppers
The absence of jazz guitarists should be noted as well... they'd have
to kick about twenty guys off this list...
Would like to have seen Johnny Marr, Bernard Butler, and Robin Guthrie
on the list... but it's a fool's Bud-light list, so whatever there
have you...
And, Kurt Cobain was a decent guitarist, but no way should he be no.
12... Whoever compiled the list needs their shot hearing checked...
O'Leary III
> Well I've found this from rankopedia:
Rankopedia? Rankopedia? Rankopedia?
OCD-opedia is more like it.
Barrabas
No Devo. The guitarist in that group was pretty good.
Fripp influenced? There is a lack of Fripp in my life.
Fripp influenced the playing in Ultravox, they influenced Devo?
I'm half guessing now.
I shared the Devo bias against 70s blues styles.
d.g.s.
> On Aug 21, 4:50 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 49 John McLaughlin
>
> The absence of jazz guitarists should be noted as well...
Well, one made it, even if it's for jazz-rock "fusion."
--
dgs
O'Leary III
>> What? No Fripp?
>
>
> No Devo. The guitarist in that group was pretty good.
> Fripp influenced? There is a lack of Fripp in my life.
> Fripp influenced the playing in Ultravox, they influenced Devo?
> I'm half guessing now.
> I shared the Devo bias against 70s blues styles.
Uh... what?
IBen Getiner
> I got this from Rolling Stone magazine. Here is the website:http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guita...
I see no Kim Simmonds. Why no Kim Simmonds...? How about Les Dudek..?
Or Justin Haward..? Or McCartney? Or Roy-fuckin'-Clark...? Or Terry
Kath..? Or Robin Trower..? They got fucking mediocre Joni Mitchell in
there alright, but none of these other real talents.. Shit, man...
David Peel plays better guitar than her. But I see it's from or
friends at Rolling Stone...!! "Oh, it's gotta be true..."..!!
IBen Getiner
IBen Getiner
What of Alvin <Ten Years After> Lee...? Or DAVE-FUCKING-MASON...?
LOL...!! What about Mick <Rolling Stone> Taylor...? Or Joe Bonamassa,
Peter Frampton, Billy <ZZ Top> Gibbons, Jeremy <Fleetwood Mac> Spencer
and Rick Derrenger..? What kind of survey can this possibly be without
Steve <Genesis> Hackett or Rod <Foghat> Price or Koko <John Mayall's
BluesBreakers> Montoya...? Or Randy <Spirit> California? Or Clem
<Humble Pie> Clemson?
You name Robert Johnson... You want the Blues...? Where then is Blind
Willie McTell? Or Blind Willie Johnson? Tampa Red, Son House or
Charley Patton...?
These people are WRONG. It's all about POPULARITY. Not about talent.
Some of the names on that list are 'strictly commercial....'. They
make me SICK, and they should make YOU sick, too. And some of you know
it, too...
More bullshit from one of the main funnels of bullshit reflecting the
so-called 'culture' today. That's all it is.... And some of you know
THAT, too...
IBen Getiner
IBen Getiner
Let us not forget Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Doc Watson, Merel Travis,
Willie Nelson, Tommy Bolin, Jessie Ed Davis, Jose Feliciano or Joe
Walsh (who Eric Clapton once said was better than he)... When you're
talking great guitarists, you've got to include some of these guys...
IBen Getiner
IBen Getiner
> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
A good one third of them have no business being there, technically
speaking. But we got to throw some in there for the kiddies, now don't
we...? Got papers to sell....
IBen Getiner
Jeff
I don't know. Let's take a pole.
Jeff
> "Jeff" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en meddelelsenews:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Aug 21, 3:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> >> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>
> Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
>
> > even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
> > no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix.
>
> Whike I agree with you, and appearently everybody else, that these lists are
> boring and irrelevant, this staement is flat out wrong. Hendrix out-rocked,
> out-psycadelisized, out-bluesed and out-composed Clapton in every way, and
> EC would be the first to tell you that!
Ok, but what kind of style did he play besides this stuff? ( Mostly
the blues) He never played country music like Clapton did, to name one
example. And how did he out compose him
with his music? I'm talking about songwriting..not his guitar playing.
To my ears, once you've heard a Jimi song..you've heard them all. He
bores me.
>
> .who mostly
>
> > played three or 4 chord rock..with the same old blues progressions
>
> Do you know "Castles Made of Sand" or "1983...(A Merman I Should Turn To
> Be)/Moon Turn The Tides...gently gently away"
> You can not like them, your loss, but don't drop your pants in
> public..................
>
> So there.
I'm not saying Jimi wasn't a great guitarist. Lead Player. I'm saying
that Clapton was more versatile all around.
Jeff
McCarney's just an all around better musician. Can't judge him as a
guitarist from just "Taxman." :-)
joe b
<yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>McCartney's just an all around better musician. Can't judge him as a
>guitarist from just "Taxman." :-)
>
I didn't realize that "Taxman" was the only time Paul played guitar in
the last 50 years.
joe b
wrote:
>I got this from Rolling Stone magazine. Here is the website:
>http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time
>
>1 Jimi Hendrix
I have no problem with Hendrix being at the top of any list of
guitarists, but the rest of the list is a "most popular" not a
"greatest" list. Are Kim Simmonds or Alvin Lee even on this list?
No, because they are not popular. Paul McCartney is not on this list
because he is more popular as a bass player, but he is a better
guitarist than 90% of this list.
BlackMonk
"Jeff" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1187784121....@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> Do you know "Castles Made of Sand" or "1983...(A Merman I Should Turn To
>> Be)/Moon Turn The Tides...gently gently away"
>> You can not like them, your loss, but don't drop your pants in
>> public..................
>>
>> So there.
>
> I'm not saying Jimi wasn't a great guitarist. Lead Player. I'm saying
> that Clapton was more versatile all around.
>
He's talking about songwriting, not guitar playing. Jimi was not only a more
interesting guitarist than Claption (going from blues to country is hardly a
demonstration of versatility, and hardly overshadows Hendrix's exploring of
jazz and psychedelia), but he was also a much more interesting songwriter. A
large percentage of Clapton's best known songs were actually written by
other people and those that weren't can often be generic sounding or
nondescript.
iarwain
very "Rolling Stone" type of list, if you know what I mean. These are
mostly the types of artists that magazine is attracted to. I agree
The Edge at #24 is an absolute joke. Probably the most glaring
omission is Steve Vai.
Hendrix is a good choice for number one - not because he's the best
guitarist ever necessarily but because he seems to be the guy most
everybody can agree on. There are a lot of people who swear by
Clapton, for instance, but there is also a pretty large contingent who
aren't impressed by him at all. Jimmy Page is my personal favorite -
a lot of people criticize him for sloppiness, but he WAS drunk a
lot.
It's also interesting to me how few people in the world are actually
famous for just playing guitar. A lot of these guys probably wouldn't
have been noticed if they didn't sing also - you have to get down to
#8 on the list before you start seeing guys who didn't front their
band by singing lead, and just played guitar.
O'Leary III
>>>I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
>>>depends who responded to this "Pole"
>>
>>OK. Quick one.
>>
>>Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
>
>
> I don't know. Let's take a pole.
Which one?
O'Leary III
> To my ears, once you've heard a Jimi song..you've heard them all. He
> bores me.
Wow. There's a lot you haven't heard.
rfor...@msn.com
> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
No, I think that listing more guitarists would have ruined the whole
"top 100" aspect of it.
Anyway, I guess Pat Metheny, Wes Montgomery, Django Reinhart, John
Mclaughlin, Al Dimeola, Alan Holdsworth, Robert Fripp, John Scofield,
and Larry Coryell can't hold a candle to Lou Reed and Joni Mitchell as
guitarists.
richforman
rfor...@msn.com
> "Jeff" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en meddelelsenews:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Yup, Hendrix was great and so was Terry Kath (Jimi thought he, Kath,
was better than him, Hendrix), if the list is supposed to be strictly
rock (and that would explain why none of the jazz guitar giants I
mentioned made the list), then Terry Kath deserves a spot IMO and also
I Hendrix's O.
richforman
BlackMonk
"iarwain" <iarw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187797015....@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I remember this list when it came out. It really does look like a
> very "Rolling Stone" type of list, if you know what I mean. These are
> mostly the types of artists that magazine is attracted to. I agree
> The Edge at #24 is an absolute joke. Probably the most glaring
> omission is Steve Vai.
>
Far from probably. Leaving aside all the jazz, classical, and blues
guitarists who they could have included, there are plenty of rock guitarists
who could be listed with as much justification as Vai.
I would have said the most glaring omission is Ollie Halsall, but I'm sure
someone else has a different suggestion.
BlackMonk
<rfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1187798119.8...@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Apples and oranges. Guitarists aren't interchangable and the skill set that
you seem to think most important doesn't necessarily mean a guitarist is
going to be the best choice for every situation.
Since the list covers a lot of ground, rather than just the "100 best
jazz-rock guitarists," you're going to get guitarists who were great in
different ways.
rfor...@msn.com
> <rforma...@msn.com> wrote in message
Sorry, I can't quite make sense of your reply.
So Chuck Berry (who I dig, don't get me wrong) is great in more ways,
or the best choice for more different situations, than any of the guys
I mentioned? And in fact NO jazz musicians are "great in enough ways"
to make the cut for a best-guitarists list?
I don't really get it - maybe if the intended idea of the list is, the
100 Greatest Non-Jazz Guitarists.
richforman
abe slaney
have to comment on #2: Duane Allman? Talk about a one-trick pony. I
still don't get the guitar superhero status that has been afforded him.
BlackMonk
<rfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1187804915.0...@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>> Apples and oranges. Guitarists aren't interchangable and the
>> skill set that you seem to think most important doesn't
>> necessarily mean a guitarist is going to be the best choice for
>> every situation.
>>
>> Since the list covers a lot of ground, rather than just the "100 > best
>> jazz-rock guitarists," you're going to get guitarists who
>> were great in different ways.
>
> Sorry, I can't quite make sense of your reply.
>
> So Chuck Berry (who I dig, don't get me wrong) is great in more ways,
> or the best choice for more different situations, than any of the guys
> I mentioned?
Where did I say it was a matter of counting up how many ways in which a
guitarist was great? You seem to want a way to measure greatness, but it
doesn't work like that. The fact is that Lou Reed would probably have been
lost if he'd tried to play like Wes Montgomery, but it's just as probable
that Montgomery would have been lost on "Sister Ray."
Now, if you want to ask about Chuck Berry, specifically? Yeah. He is. Not
only did he draw from blues, jazz and country influences to create his own
style, but he pretty much invented Rock and Roll guitar playing and created
the vocabulary for everyone who came after him.
rfor...@msn.com
> <rforma...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187804915.0...@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> Apples and oranges. Guitarists aren't interchangable and the
> >> skill set that you seem to think most important doesn't
> >> necessarily mean a guitarist is going to be the best choice for
> >> every situation.
>
> >> Since the list covers a lot of ground, rather than just the "100 > best
> >> jazz-rock guitarists," you're going to get guitarists who
> >> were great in different ways.
>
> > Sorry, I can't quite make sense of your reply.
>
> > So Chuck Berry (who I dig, don't get me wrong) is great in more ways,
> > or the best choice for more different situations, than any of the guys
> > I mentioned?
>
> Where did I say it was a matter of counting up how many ways in which a
> guitarist was great?
> You seem to want a way to measure greatness, but it
> doesn't work like that.
Wouldn't it have to work like that in order to compile a list of the
greatest guitarists?
> The fact is that Lou Reed would probably have been
> lost if he'd tried to play like Wes Montgomery, but it's just as probable
> that Montgomery would have been lost on "Sister Ray."
>
> Now, if you want to ask about Chuck Berry, specifically? Yeah. He is. Not
> only did he draw from blues, jazz and country influences to create his own
> style, but he pretty much invented Rock and Roll guitar playing and created
> the vocabulary for everyone who came after him.
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't get the sense that you know much about, or
are at all interested in jazz. (For instance, you sound like you
think jazz is just "one thing" and that a master of it isn't likely to
draw from a very wide and rich history of influences of different
styles like a rock'n'roll musician. In fact, I submit that a master
jazz player has likely studied and absorbed a wider and deeper range
of styles and influences - and blues to a much deeper degree - than a
strictly rock or blues player.) Didn't Django Reinhardt and Wes
Montgomery
(and others, those are two of the huge giants) "pretty much invent"
jazz guitar playing and also create a vocabulary that has been built
upon by the many generations of musicians who came after them?
And if you yourself say that Chuck Berry "drew on jazz," then wouldn't
some of the giants and innovators of that genre who influenced his
influences....make the cut?
I still have no idea why you seem to be saying that no jazz musician
should be expected to be on a list of greatest guitar players, it
seems to me that it must be because you don't like jazz and don't know
much or anything about it.
richforman
Dave The Rave
> PS I also think it's a given that the list will not encompass much
> ground outside of pop/rock. This is *Rolling Stone*.
>
> If Rolling Stone did a "greatest keyboardists" list, would you
> demand that the list be dominated by classical virtuosos (as it
> should be, strictly speaking)?
Chopin and Rachmaninov get my vote.
Dave The Rave
Lookingglass
"Dave The Rave" <daves...@safe-mail.net> wrote in message
news:1187812953....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chopin and Rachmaninov get my vote.
>
> Dave The Rave
What...?!? No Lizst on your list?
keithw...@yahoo.com
Methinks he'd better replace "21" with "2" and "1" with John Lennon.
As John himself admits he wasn't good technically (not until Yoko
anyways) but he could play the thing...and make it howl! Best darned
rhythm guitarist who ever lived. Hendrix was fine...but did he put
the first feedback on vinyl? Did he pluck those unforgettable notes
of "I Feel Fine"? Did he play those majestic chords of "Norweigian
Wood"?
BlackMonk
<rfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1187809795....@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 2:14 pm, "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> <rforma...@msn.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187804915.0...@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> Apples and oranges. Guitarists aren't interchangable and the
>> >> skill set that you seem to think most important doesn't
>> >> necessarily mean a guitarist is going to be the best choice for
>> >> every situation.
>>
>> >> Since the list covers a lot of ground, rather than just the "100 >
>> >> best
>> >> jazz-rock guitarists," you're going to get guitarists who
>> >> were great in different ways.
>>
>> > Sorry, I can't quite make sense of your reply.
>>
>> > So Chuck Berry (who I dig, don't get me wrong) is great in more ways,
>> > or the best choice for more different situations, than any of the guys
>> > I mentioned?
>>
>> Where did I say it was a matter of counting up how many ways in which a
>> guitarist was great?
>
>
>> You seem to want a way to measure greatness, but it
>> doesn't work like that.
>
> Wouldn't it have to work like that in order to compile a list of the
> greatest guitarists?
>
No. There's no way to compare the greatness of Al DiMeola to the greatness
of Lou Reed, so you don't try. Instead, you try to make a list that
represents the spectrum of ways in which a guitarist can be great as well
as possible.
Otherwise, you'd end up saying "well, this guitarist has a great sound, but
this one is more versatile so he goes first. Wait, look how many notes this
one can play in a measure."
>> The fact is that Lou Reed would probably have been
>> lost if he'd tried to play like Wes Montgomery, but it's just as probable
>> that Montgomery would have been lost on "Sister Ray."
>>
>> Now, if you want to ask about Chuck Berry, specifically? Yeah. He is. Not
>> only did he draw from blues, jazz and country influences to create his
>> own
>> style, but he pretty much invented Rock and Roll guitar playing and
>> created
>> the vocabulary for everyone who came after him.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong but I don't get the sense that you know much about, or
> are at all interested in jazz.
Yeah, you're wrong.
(For instance, you sound like you
> think jazz is just "one thing" and that a master of it isn't likely to
> draw from a very wide and rich history of influences of different
> styles like a rock'n'roll musician. In fact, I submit that a master
> jazz player has likely studied and absorbed a wider and deeper range
> of styles and influences - and blues to a much deeper degree - than a
> strictly rock or blues player.) Didn't Django Reinhardt and Wes
> Montgomery
> (and others, those are two of the huge giants) "pretty much invent"
> jazz guitar playing and also create a vocabulary that has been built
> upon by the many generations of musicians who came after them?
>
That's the point You can say Django and Wes invented jazz guitar playing. I
might say Eddie Lang and Charlie Christian. No one player was as important
as Chuck Berry to rock playing.
> And if you yourself say that Chuck Berry "drew on jazz," then wouldn't
> some of the giants and innovators of that genre who influenced his
> influences....make the cut?
Not necessarily. And how many of the people you listed predated Chuck Berry?
Your list was mainly of jazz-rock fusion musicians. John Scofield? A
talented guitarist, but why him and not Mike Stern, for example. For that
matter, why Mike Stern and not Leni Stern? She didn't have MONSTER FUSION
CHOPS, but I loved her sound on her early records. But to go back to MONSTER
FUSION CHOPS, why not Wayne Krantz?
>
> I still have no idea why you seem to be saying that no jazz musician
> should be expected to be on a list of greatest guitar players,
Because you don't read very carefully?
I'm saying that you're basing your idea that they SHOULD be on a list of
greatest guitar players on a very limited set of criteria.
it
> seems to me that it must be because you don't like jazz and don't know
> much or anything about it.
>
Get over yourself.
BlackMonk
"poisoned rose" <captainv...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Ne%yi.7397$4w7....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> joe b <j...@blow.com> wrote:
>
>> I have no problem with Hendrix being at the top of any list of
>> guitarists, but the rest of the list is a "most popular" not a
>> "greatest" list. Are Kim Simmonds or Alvin Lee even on this list?
>> No, because they are not popular.
>
> nominations do not take this into account. There are factors of
> taste, style and creative vision. For instance, Lee was a
> notoriously tasteless guitarist, and his music has aged horribly.
>
I wouldn't say he was any more tasteful than, say, Johnny Ramone, but guys
who could play blues licks really fast with a distorted tone weren't exactly
a rarity. The list probably has Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Beck, Bloomfield,
Peter Green and Stevie Ray Vaughan. Would Alvin Lee and Kim Simmonds add
anything?
O'Leary III
> I agree that it's a silly list with no bearing on anything, but I still
> have to comment on #2: Duane Allman? Talk about a one-trick pony. I
> still don't get the guitar superhero status that has been afforded him.
He takes me to another place.
O'Leary III
> What...?!? No Lizst on your list?
Lizst is on my list of the best things in life.
johnin...@yahoo.com
John did quite a nice organ solo on some of his earlier Beatles
tunes...so he's gotta be on the list. He's gotta be on any list.
He's John friggin Lennon!
As long as Yoko's on the list all will be well... She's classically
trained and can play that piano like nobody's business.
Mackenzie
> a lot of people criticize him for sloppiness, but he WAS drunk a
> lot.
>
I would have thought it was heroin that did it in for poor Jimmy (I
liked some of the stuff he did before 1977). Still Page is a good lead
guitarist who had deep roots in blues playing. I always thought Jeff
Beck or at least Peter Frampton should be up there. I wish they would
allow some of their avid readers, such as myself, to nominate the
guitarists.
I always admired Frampton's use of the talkbox, and he was just a good
player. It's hard to imagine that this is the same guy that went to
the same school and became a close friend of David Bowie.
Mike
Earl Slick, Syd Barrett, Mick Taylor, Ron Wood, Michael Bloomfield,
Frank Marino, Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, Michael Schenker, Rick Nielsen,
Joe Perry, Allan Holdsworth, Uli Jon Roth, Tony Iommi, John Petrucci,
Gary Moore, Steve Hackett, Jan Akkerman, Richard Thompson, Rik Emmett,
Mick Box, Manny Charlton, Donald (Buck) Dharma, Ace Frehley, Joe Walsh,
Johnny Winter, Link Wray, Billy Gibbons, Luther Allison, Phil Keaggy,
etc etc etc etc!!!!!!!!!
RichL
news:1187829107....@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
I generally don't like lists or rankings, but with the Yardbirds you had
three guitarists who were in essentially the same situation and could be
compared.
Beck's on the list, in 14th place. Based on their playing with the
Yardbirds, I would put Beck in front of both Clapton and Page.
I've never seen a live concert or watched a concert video with Page where he
could pull off half of what was done on recordings correctly, even
accounting for the fact that the recordings had lots of overdubs. He didn't
respect his audience enough to stay off the sauce or whatever it was at any
given time that he was hooked on.
RichL
news:29215-46C...@storefull-3275.bay.webtv.net...
As well as essentially all of fusion, jazz, and classical.
BlackMonk
"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:756zi.17279$jy6.11524@trnddc01...
> "Mackenzie" <jade...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1187829107....@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>> > Jimmy Page is my personal favorite -
>> > a lot of people criticize him for sloppiness, but he WAS drunk a
>> > lot.
>> >
>>
>> I would have thought it was heroin that did it in for poor Jimmy (I
>> liked some of the stuff he did before 1977). Still Page is a good lead
>> guitarist who had deep roots in blues playing. I always thought Jeff
>> Beck or at least Peter Frampton should be up there. I wish they would
>> allow some of their avid readers, such as myself, to nominate the
>> guitarists.
>>
>> I always admired Frampton's use of the talkbox, and he was just a good
>> player. It's hard to imagine that this is the same guy that went to
>> the same school and became a close friend of David Bowie.
>
> I generally don't like lists or rankings, but with the Yardbirds you had
> three guitarists who were in essentially the same situation and could be
> compared.
>
> Beck's on the list, in 14th place. Based on their playing with the
> Yardbirds, I would put Beck in front of both Clapton and Page.
>
No Top Topham?
(I actually saw him play once, backing some singer/songwriter. I think it
was ok, but nothing really stood out.)
Mackenzie
> could pull off half of what was done on recordings correctly, even
> accounting for the fact that the recordings had lots of overdubs. He didn't
> respect his audience enough to stay off the sauce or whatever it was at any
> given time that he was hooked on.
I essentially agree with you, I don't think Page was a good live
performer. I think that also happened to Jimi Hendrix. I remember
going to a concert of his around late 1969, and man was he bad. He was
stumbling all over the stage and muttering incoherent words into the
microphone.The drugs caught up with him big time, and it was really
very sad. I don't think his death surprised me much because I knew it
would only be a certain amount of time before he croaked. Poor guy. :
(
Page, however, was a different story. I don't think he could replicate
what he did in the studio very well, but he's on and off in concerts.
RichL
news:faitnd$p18$1...@aioe.org...
Did the Yardbirds actually ever record anything with Topham? If so, I never
heard it.
BlackMonk
Never. Or if they did, it's never come out as far as I know.
He's been on a few record since, mostly Blue Horizon stuff in the late
sixties. The only thing I have is the Christine Perfect album where he's one
of the two guitarists. (not counting one track with Chicken Shack and one
with Danny Kirwin and John McVie.) It's ok.
IBen Getiner
> "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:faitnd$p18$1...@aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:756zi.17279$jy6.11524@trnddc01...
> > > "Mackenzie" <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:1187829107....@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> > >> > Jimmy Page is my personal favorite -
> > >> > a lot of people criticize him for sloppiness, but he WAS drunk a
> > >> > lot.
>
> > >> I would have thought it was heroin that did it in for poor Jimmy (I
> > >> liked some of the stuff he did before 1977). Still Page is a good lead
> > >> guitarist who had deep roots in blues playing. I always thought Jeff
> > >> Beck or at least Peter Frampton should be up there. I wish they would
> > >> allow some of their avid readers, such as myself, to nominate the
> > >> guitarists.
>
> > >> I always admired Frampton's use of the talkbox, and he was just a good
> > >> player. It's hard to imagine that this is the same guy that went to
> > >> the same school and became a close friend of David Bowie.
>
> > > I generally don't like lists or rankings, but with the Yardbirds you had
> > > three guitarists who were in essentially the same situation and could be
> > > compared.
>
> > > Beck's on the list, in 14th place. Based on their playing with the
> > > Yardbirds, I would put Beck in front of both Clapton and Page.
>
> > No Top Topham?
>
> > (I actually saw him play once, backing some singer/songwriter. I think it
> > was ok, but nothing really stood out.)
>
> Did the Yardbirds actually ever record anything with Topham? If so, I never
>
> - Show quoted text -
He is on one cut of a Yardbirds LP called 'Second Helping' (Outline
records ollp 5254 as). The song is "Baby What's Wrong". I have it. It
took me years to fucking find it. Top does have a CD out. It's called
"On Top 1963-1969 (Indigo Records IGOCD 2080). It's a compellation and
iz really pretty darned good. You can pick it up off Ebay for under 15
bucks. Most come from England, though, so they burn you for the
shipping.
IBen Getiner
IBen Getiner
> "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:LZ7zi.17299$jy6.14507@trnddc01...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> >news:faitnd$p18$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >> "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:756zi.17279$jy6.11524@trnddc01...
> >> > "Mackenzie" <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Brush up, monck... You're fucking WRONG.
IBen Getiner
JohnB
> "Mike" <thedukeofpru...@webtv.net> wrote in message
The vast majority of names on the list are rock guitarists who made
their reputation on electric guitar. There are very few who were
primarily acoustic guitarists (Robert Johnson, Bert Jansch, Joni
Mitchell, a few others?).
Anybody here ever heard Martins4? (Martin Carthy, Martin Simpson,
Martin Taylor & Juan Martin.) That's some album for guitar fans.
Another name for the list: Barney Kessel. (Sometimes less is more.)
And yet more: Gordon Giltrap, Kevin Dempsey, Chris Newman, Ken Nicol,
Bob Brozman, Tom Doughty, Jerry Donahue.
You see, a list of a hundred was never going to be enough... and a RS
list even less so.
Tom K
"Jeff" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1187784121....@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 21, 6:08 pm, "Tom K" <kinson....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Jeff" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en
>> meddelelsenews:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Aug 21, 3:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
>> >> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>>
>> Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
>>
>> > even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
>> > no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix.
>>
>> Whike I agree with you, and appearently everybody else, that these lists
>> are
>> boring and irrelevant, this staement is flat out wrong. Hendrix
>> out-rocked,
>> out-psycadelisized, out-bluesed and out-composed Clapton in every way,
>> and
>> EC would be the first to tell you that!
>
> Ok, but what kind of style did he play besides this stuff? ( Mostly
> the blues) He never played country music like Clapton did, to name one
> example.
No country, but if he had wanted to, he would and could have. Same goes for
reggea. How much country did Clapton play before 1970?
And BTW have Clapton ever played a tango?
And how did he out compose him
> with his music? I'm talking about songwriting..not his guitar playing.
I refer to the two titles I've already mentioned. Do you know them? There
are others such as "3rd Stone From The Sun", "If 6 Was 9", "Litle
Wing".......
> To my ears, once you've heard a Jimi song..you've heard them all. He
> bores me.
>
There's no accounting for taste, but you need to grow some ears, if you
can't hear how multifaceted the output that Hendrix produced in his short
but illustrious career was.
>>
>> .who mostly
>>
>> > played three or 4 chord rock..with the same old blues progressions
>>
>> Do you know "Castles Made of Sand" or "1983...(A Merman I Should Turn To
>> Be)/Moon Turn The Tides...gently gently away"
>> You can not like them, your loss, but don't drop your pants in
>> public..................
>>
>> So there.
>
> I'm not saying Jimi wasn't a great guitarist. Lead Player. I'm saying
> that Clapton was more versatile all around.
>
rfor...@msn.com
>>
> No. There's no way to compare the greatness of Al DiMeola to the greatness
> of Lou Reed, so you don't try. Instead, you try to make a list that
> represents the spectrum of ways in which a guitarist can be great as well
> as possible.
>
I'm not trying to be belligerent or anything btw. Anyway, this is
exactly what I don't get about the list and your remarks here. You
say a list like this should represent the spectrum of ways in which a
guitarist can be great, I can see that and I agree. So, shouldn't
that spectrum include the ways that an accomplished or legendary or
vastly influential jazz guitarist can be great? Why aren't there any
jazz musicians on ths list and why doesn't that strike you as wrong?
Maybe you've answered already but I don't get it. I thought (in no
attempt to put you down or build myself up, this was just a possible
explanation that I came up with) that it was that you don't know or
don't like jazz, but apparently that's not it.
> Otherwise, you'd end up saying "well, this guitarist has a great sound, but
> this one is more versatile so he goes first. Wait, look how many notes this
> one can play in a measure."
By the way, for me anyway, speed in itself ("how many notes" or
"monster chops") counts for nothing, doesn't impress me, and is not
what I'm listening for or talking about when I talk about virtuosic or
brilliant jazz or jazz-rock guitarists who I think ought to be on a GG
list. Again, this is an attitude that seems to come from lots of
people who themselves have no interest in or knowledge of jazz: that
when you talk about masterful musicianship or viruosity, that you're
talking about speed or number of notes. Now, most of the guys I love
in jazz can and do play fast and might on occasion play a lot of notes
in a short space but that in itself isn't what makes it great for me -
it's their choice of which notes, what order they play them in, how
they're grouped and shaped into a melodic contour, the phrasing,
dynamics, articulation, contrast, and most importantly the emotional
and expressive content of what they play be it fast or slow, dense or
sparse. Lots of non-jazz rock players or worse yet "jazz-rock" guys
(really I don't consider any of the players in my original list as
"jazz-rock" even if they play fusion, I consider that a genre of jazz
and people like Metheny, Scofield, diMeola as jazzers - to me, "jazz-
rock" connotes someone like Steve Vai who I don't really care for that
much and whose specialty is, it seems to me, more about speed and # of
notes - and who I'd never nominate for inclusion on a Greatest
list).
>
>
>
> > I still have no idea why you seem to be saying that no jazz musician
> > should be expected to be on a list of greatest guitar players,
>
> Because you don't read very carefully?
>
> I'm saying that you're basing your idea that they SHOULD be on a list of
> greatest guitar players on a very limited set of criteria.
>
Well, here you don't seem to be reading my comments right. My "set of
criteria" sounds like it's more expansive than yours or the one used
to compile the list. I'm not saying the list should be ALL jazz
players. I just don't understand why there wouldn't be ANY included,
why the kind of greatness, innovativeness, technical mastery and
historic significance and long-lasting influence of a Reinhardt or
Montgomery wouldn't be in any way acknowledged or included on suc a
list, and why you don't seem to think any should be included - even
though now I know you like jazz as I do. SURELY there are jazz
guitarists who are in some way great enough to be included on a "100
Greatest Guitarists" list, unless the idea of the list is to
explicitly exclude them for some reason.
If the list is just intended to be the greatest *rock* guitarists,
then I guess that explains it but why don't they say so.
richforman
Dave The Rave
> "Dave The Rave" <daves32...@safe-mail.net> wrote in messagenews:1187812953....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Chopin and Rachmaninov get my vote.
>
> > Dave The Rave
>
> What...?!? No Lizst on your list?
>
> www.Shemakhan.com
Well...under modern keyboardists list I would vote for Rick Wakeman
who "played" Lizst in Robt. Altman's "Lizstomania".
Dave Rave
BlackMonk
<rfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1187877043.5...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 5:55 pm, "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>> No. There's no way to compare the greatness of Al DiMeola to the
>> greatness
>> of Lou Reed, so you don't try. Instead, you try to make a list that
>> represents the spectrum of ways in which a guitarist can be great as
>> well
>> as possible.
>>
>
> I'm not trying to be belligerent or anything btw. Anyway, this is
> exactly what I don't get about the list and your remarks here. You
> say a list like this should represent the spectrum of ways in which a
> guitarist can be great, I can see that and I agree. So, shouldn't
> that spectrum include the ways that an accomplished or legendary or
> vastly influential jazz guitarist can be great? Why aren't there any
> jazz musicians on ths list and why doesn't that strike you as wrong?
Because I recognize the limitations of the list. Their audience is the
people who read Rolling Stone. That's why I'm not surprised that there are
no classical guitarists there. or that both Robert Johnson and Jack White
are there, but Son House isn't, or that John Fahey made the list but Robbie
Basho didn't. There's at least one jazz fusion guitarist there (John
McLaughlin), which is in keeping with the above.
> (really I don't consider any of the players in my original list as
> "jazz-rock" even if they play fusion, I consider that a genre of jazz
> and people like Metheny, Scofield, diMeola as jazzers - to me, "jazz-
> rock" connotes someone like Steve Vai who I don't really care for that
> much and whose specialty is, it seems to me, more about speed and # of
> notes - and who I'd never nominate for inclusion on a Greatest
> list).
>>
Um, "fusion" refers to a fusion of jazz and rock. Your distinction is valid,
but kind of idiosyncratic.
>>
>>
>> > I still have no idea why you seem to be saying that no jazz musician
>> > should be expected to be on a list of greatest guitar players,
>>
>> Because you don't read very carefully?
>>
>> I'm saying that you're basing your idea that they SHOULD be on a list of
>> greatest guitar players on a very limited set of criteria.
>>
>
> Well, here you don't seem to be reading my comments right. My "set of
> criteria" sounds like it's more expansive than yours or the one used
> to compile the list. I'm not saying the list should be ALL jazz
> players. I just don't understand why there wouldn't be ANY included,
John McLaughlin is there. One could also count Jeff Beck and Frank Zappa and
Danny Gatton, who all recorded records that could be considered jazz.
Depending on how far you wanted to stretch the definition, you could include
players with some jazz influences in their playing such as Tom Verlaine and
Vernon Reid. Even Lou Reed was influenced by Albert Ayler.
> why the kind of greatness, innovativeness, technical mastery and
> historic significance and long-lasting influence of a Reinhardt or
> Montgomery wouldn't be in any way acknowledged or included on suc a
> list, and why you don't seem to think any should be included - even
> though now I know you like jazz as I do.
Probably because Reinhardt and Montgomery aren't as relevant to Rolling
Stone's audience. They didn't directly influence any major rock players the
way Robert Johnson, or Johnny Ramone for that matter, did.
Let's take Johnny Ramone for a second, by almost any measure, he had no
technique and he basically did one thing, but he was very good at that one
thing and he could claim to have changed the way rock was played. As I said,
they have to cover a large spectrum, but some things do fall outside of it.
Steel string instrumentalists beyond Fahey and Bert Jansch do. Jazz-rock-a
term I actually prefer to fusion, which has come to also refer to
watered-down smooth jazz- is just part enough of the spectrum to include
McLaughlin, and straightforward Jazz isn't really part of it at all.
SURELY there are jazz
> guitarists who are in some way great enough to be included on a "100
> Greatest Guitarists" list, unless the idea of the list is to
> explicitly exclude them for some reason.
>
> If the list is just intended to be the greatest *rock* guitarists,
> then I guess that explains it but why don't they say so.
>
It's more "greatest guitarists who'd be interesting to Rolling Stone's
readers." As far as that goes, they were fairly adventurous.
keithw...@yahoo.com
keithw...@yahoo.com
Choppin and Roache Bros are fine, I lke jazz too. Big Chuck Berry fan
here, Johnny B. Goode is one of the better jazz standards, some truly
fine jazz playing and challenging changes there.
keithw...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> > Chopin and Rachmaninov get my vote.
>
> > Dave The Rave
>
> What...?!? No Lizst on your list?
>
> www.Shemakhan.com
Some debate and ponder, why not more classical and jazz musicians on
the list. This is a Beatles group. We're Yoko fans here, thus
educated in the niceties of classical and jazz, where Yoko does much
of her instruction. But the average reader of Rolling Stone is a
beginning rock musician who has seldom studied esoterica or fronted a
band of hamsters.
Jeff
> "Jeff" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en meddelelsenews:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Aug 21, 3:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> >> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>
> Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
>
> > even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
> > no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix.
>
> Whike I agree with you, and appearently everybody else, that these lists are
> boring and irrelevant, this staement is flat out wrong. Hendrix out-rocked,
> out-psycadelisized, out-bluesed and out-composed Clapton in every way, and
> EC would be the first to tell you that!
My posts aren't showing up. I'll try this again: Clapton out-composed
Hendrix, with the many styles of music he has recorded since Jimi's
death. Jimi basically
had one sound..and it got boring. Did Jimi play county music for
example? No. Clapton is way more versatile than Jimi was. Jimi reminds
me of going into a bar...and within the first set, ( about 45 minutes
until the band takes a break) he blows his wad..holding nothing
back..and plays so damn well...that by the second set, ( or sooner)
there is nothing to forward to. You've heard it all, and you're
already bored. Do you understand what I'm saying? The thing is, we'll
never really know
if Jimi had the capability of playing anything other than blues based
rock. Jimi was stuck in a rut with his music..before he died...and had
Clapton stayed with Cream
with HIS 3 piece bands like Jimi..the last 40 years...... Well,
maybe you get my point. It's kind of like Stevie Ray Vaughn. He's was
an excellent guitarist for the blues..but what else did he play? He
blew his wad too. I also like to hear versatility and some production
once in a while. Hearing just music centered around a guitarist
bores the hell out of me..but if that's the type of music that you
like..hey, that's fine.
>
> .who mostly
>
> > played three or 4 chord rock..with the same old blues progressions
>
> Do you know "Castles Made of Sand" or "1983...(A Merman I Should Turn To
> Be)/Moon Turn The Tides...gently gently away"
> You can not like them, your loss, but don't drop your pants in
> public..................
>
> So there.
:-)
BlackMonk
"Jeff" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1187882910....@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 21, 6:08 pm, "Tom K" <kinson....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Jeff" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> skrev i en
>> meddelelsenews:1187734786.2...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Aug 21, 3:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
>> >> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>>
>> Jimi Hendrix was never the best guitarist who ever lived..and
>>
>> > even if he was..so what? Most of his songs are crap IMO. Eric Clapton
>> > no 4? He was always a LOT more versatile than Hendrix.
>>
>> Whike I agree with you, and appearently everybody else, that these lists
>> are
>> boring and irrelevant, this staement is flat out wrong. Hendrix
>> out-rocked,
>> out-psycadelisized, out-bluesed and out-composed Clapton in every way,
>> and
>> EC would be the first to tell you that!
>
> My posts aren't showing up. I'll try this again: Clapton out-composed
> Hendrix,
But Clapton didn't write a lot of his material.
with the many styles of music he has recorded since Jimi's
> death. Jimi basically
> had one sound..
What? The "Purple Haze" sound? The "Fire" sound? The "Wind Cries Mary"
sound?
>and it got boring.
Did Jimi play county music for
> example?
Does his cover of Blue Suede Shoes count?
Jeff
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:07:24 -0700, Jeff
>
> <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >McCartney's just an all around better musician. Can't judge him as a
> >guitarist from just "Taxman." :-)
>
> I didn't realize that "Taxman" was the only time Paul played guitar in
> the last 50 years.
My point is, what other song did Paul play lead on..that was as good
as "Taxman.? I don't think it's fair to put him on a list comparing
him to all these guitarists.
Paul is an all around better musician than these guitarists.
Mackenzie
> My point is, what other song did Paul play lead on..that was as good
> as "Taxman.?
I think he was a better bass player. If Rolling Stone magazine asked
you where Paul placed on the greatest rock n'roll bass players list,
where would you place him?
BlackMonk
Not necessarily all of them. Mike Bloomfield was also a better keyboard
player and drummer. I'm sure there were a few more multi-instrumentalists on
the list. Also a few better songwriters. Richard Thompson springs to mind.
rfor...@msn.com
> > Why aren't there any
> > jazz musicians on ths list and why doesn't that strike you as wrong?
>
> Because I recognize the limitations of the list. Their audience is the
> interesting to Rolling Stone's readers."
Well, I think you're right and that in reality that's the reason for
the orientation of the list. I guess I just have kind of a problem
with the name of the list; if it were just called something along the
lines of Greatest Guitarists in Rock, then it would seem less
ridiculous to me.
> > (really I don't consider any of the players in my original list as
> > "jazz-rock" even if they play fusion, I consider that a genre of jazz
> > and people like Metheny, Scofield, diMeola as jazzers - to me, "jazz-
> > rock" connotes someone like Steve Vai who I don't really care for that
> > much and whose specialty is, it seems to me, more about speed and # of
> > notes - and who I'd never nominate for inclusion on a Greatest
> > list).
>
> Um, "fusion" refers to a fusion of jazz and rock. Your distinction is valid,
> but kind of idiosyncratic.
>
Thanks for seeing what I mean. I know, that's what "fusion"
originally referred to and you're right, I have my own kind of
personal definition of it that differs from how the term is frequently
understood.
>
>
> > I'm not saying the list should be ALL jazz
> > players. I just don't understand why there wouldn't be ANY included,
>
> John McLaughlin is there.
So you're right: I didn't read the list carefully enough, didn't even
notice him. That kind of satisfies me a little more, I consider him
clearly (modern/progressive/fusion) jazz.
>
> Let's take Johnny Ramone for a second, by almost any measure, he had no
> technique and he basically did one thing
Take Johnny Ramone, please!
richforman
Jeff
> Jeff wrote:
> >>>I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
> >>>depends who responded to this "Pole"
>
> >>OK. Quick one.
>
> >>Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
>
> > I don't know. Let's take a pole.
>
> Which one?
A pull on the pole. :-)
Jeff
> > bores me.
>
I've heard every Hendrix album that was made up till about 15 years
ago. Has there been more albums released? I've heard he only made 3
albums..and after that,
musicians were just added to pieces of him playing by himself. It's
not the kind of music that I enjoy..like I never cared for "Dark side
of the moon."
Jeff
> joe b wrote:
> > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:50:42 -0700, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>I got this from Rolling Stone magazine. Here is the website:
> >>http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guita...
>
> >>1 Jimi Hendrix
>
> > guitarists, but the rest of the list is a "most popular" not a
> > "greatest" list. Are Kim Simmonds or Alvin Lee even on this list?
> > No, because they are not popular. Paul McCartney is not on this list
> > because he is more popular as a bass player, but he is a better
> > guitarist than 90% of this list.
>
> I agree that it's a silly list with no bearing on anything, but I still
> have to comment on #2: Duane Allman? Talk about a one-trick pony. I
> still don't get the guitar superhero status that has been afforded him.
He was just a good slide guitarist? I never understood myself.
Jeff
> <rforma...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187798119.8...@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Aug 21, 4:56 pm, Mackenzie <jade_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Do you all agree with this list, should there have been more
> >> guitarists listed? What do you all think?
>
> > "top 100" aspect of it.
>
> > Anyway, I guess Pat Metheny, Wes Montgomery, Django Reinhart, John
> > Mclaughlin, Al Dimeola, Alan Holdsworth,
There you go. I would love to Hear Jimi Hendrix play as well as Alan
Holdsworth...not that I like him.
Robert Fripp, John Scofield,
> > and Larry Coryell can't hold a candle to Lou Reed and Joni Mitchell as
> > guitarists.
>
> Apples and oranges. Guitarists aren't interchangable and the skill set that
> you seem to think most important doesn't necessarily mean a guitarist is
> going to be the best choice for every situation.
>
> Since the list covers a lot of ground, rather than just the "100 best
> jazz-rock guitarists," you're going to get guitarists who were great in
> different ways.
Sean Carroll
> Jeff wrote:
>> I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
>> depends who responded to this "Pole"
> OK. Quick one.
>
> Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
Q: What's the contour integral around Western Europe?
A: Zero, because all the Poles are in Eastern Europe! (Actually, there
are some Poles in Western Europe, but they're all removable.)
--
--Sean
http://spclsd223.livejournal.com/
Cuddy: You can't be serious.
House: Actually, I can. [frowns] See?
Sean Carroll
>> What, no Peter Banks? George Benson? Wes Montgomery? Joe Pass?
>> Larry Coryell? Phil Manzanera?
> Oooo. Manzanera.
Isn't that Spanish for 'female apple peddler'?
Sean Carroll
> To my ears, once you've heard a Jimi song..you've heard them all.
You think 'Manic Depression', 'Hey Joe', 'Little Wing', 'If 6 Was 9',
'Voodoo Chile', 'Gypsy Eyes', and 'Machine Gun', to name just a few, are
all the same?
I suggest you go back and listen again!
RichL
news:yklzi.13095$Pv4....@newsfe19.lga...
> O'Leary III wrote:
> > Jeff wrote:
>
> >> I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
> >> depends who responded to this "Pole"
>
> > OK. Quick one.
> >
> > Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
>
> Q: What's the contour integral around Western Europe?
>
> A: Zero, because all the Poles are in Eastern Europe! (Actually, there
> are some Poles in Western Europe, but they're all removable.)
Raja is a simple pole in a complex plane.
(Oh...wait...he's Indian. Never mind.)
RichL
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > To my ears, once you've heard a Jimi song..you've heard them all.
>
> You think 'Manic Depression', 'Hey Joe', 'Little Wing', 'If 6 Was 9',
> 'Voodoo Chile', 'Gypsy Eyes', and 'Machine Gun', to name just a few, are
> all the same?
>
> I suggest you go back and listen again!
Don't forget Angel, Ezy Rider, Freedom....
I will grant that there's something about Jimi's voice that's not for
everyone. But it is for me!
White collar conservative flashin' down the street
Pointin' their plastic finger at me, ha!
They're hopin' soon my kind will drop and die but uh
I'm gonna wave my freak flag high, high!
Dig it!
RichL
> My posts aren't showing up. I'll try this again: Clapton out-composed
> Hendrix, with the many styles of music he has recorded since Jimi's
> death. Jimi basically had one sound..and it got boring. Did Jimi play
> county music for example? No. Clapton is way more versatile than Jimi
> was.
Not to me. Basically my opinion is that Clapton shot his wad on Layla,
everything he did afterwards seems so ordinary to me.
> Jimi reminds me of going into a bar...and within the first set, ( about 45
> minutes > until the band takes a break) he blows his wad..holding
> nothing back..and plays so damn well...that by the second set, ( or
> sooner) there is nothing to forward to.
So you're saying mediocre is better? I just dig it 'cause the guy never
quit.
> You've heard it all, and you're already bored. Do you understand what
> I'm saying? The thing is, we'll never really know if Jimi had the
capability
> of playing anything other than blues based rock. Jimi was stuck in a rut
> with his music..before he died...and had Clapton stayed with Cream
> with HIS 3 piece bands like Jimi..the last 40 years...... Well,
> maybe you get my point.
I don't, really. Had the stuff continued with the Experience (Noel Redding,
Mitch Mitchell) ad infinitum, you might have a point. But it didn't. He
played with a number of session guys afterwards and others too (Band of
Gypsies) and was starting to explore other genres when nature took its
course. Unfortunately, really. The last thing I would have expected is the
same thing for 40 years. If anything, Jimi was an adventurer, and he
wouldn't have been satisfied with that.
> It's kind of like Stevie Ray Vaughn. He's was an excellent guitarist for
> the blues..but what else did he play? He blew his wad too. I also like to
> hear versatility and some production once in a while. Hearing just music
> centered around a guitarist bores the hell out of me..but if that's the
type
> of music that you like..hey, that's fine.
Well, I'll agree that Vaughn was basically a one-trick pony. But I think
it's unfair to put Jimi in that category. Vaughn was real bluesy and in a
sense a Jimi wanna-be, but I think Hendrix was really much broader
style-wise.
RichL
Duane excelled in both slide and "standard" playing. You can hear both
styles extensively on the Allmans' albums. He is one of the first white
guys playing slide blues who actually "got it". His technique swings, it
just seems to come so naturally for him. As much as it pains me to say so,
the technique is much better than George Harrison's, but the style of music
is so different, it may be unfair to compare. But he has an unbelievable
sense of timing with his slide playing. It ain't easy, trust me!
We may quibble about the absolute rankings of the "top tier" (say, for the
sake of argument the top 10), but as long as the list is mainly restricted
to rock-related players, which it seems to be, there's no question in my
mind that Duane belongs in the top tier. And I'm not a big Allmans fan, by
the way.
Remember, the list is best guitarists, not songwriters. He's one of the
best slide guitarists to ever come along (along with Johnny Winter), and an
excellent "standard-technique" player as well. I personally don't
understand what the problem is, but I understand that others' tastes vary
:-)
O'Leary III
>>>>>I don't agree with any of the lists written in this group. It just
>>>>>depends who responded to this "Pole"
>>
>>>>OK. Quick one.
>>
>>>>Which is better? The North Pole, or the South Pole?
>>
>>>I don't know. Let's take a pole.
>>
>>Which one?
>
>
> A pull on the pole. :-)
Hey, this is a family show.
O'Leary III
> I've heard every Hendrix album that was made up till about 15 years
> ago. Has there been more albums released? I've heard he only made 3
> albums..and after that,
> musicians were just added to pieces of him playing by himself.
That's not totally true. There were a couple of albums in the '70's that
employed the use of overdubs.
> It's not the kind of music that I enjoy..like I never cared for "Dark side
> of the moon."
Two different things. Two different moods. I bet you like CCR.
O'Leary III
> Don't forget Angel, Ezy Rider, Freedom....
> I will grant that there's something about Jimi's voice that's not for
> everyone. But it is for me!
"Angel" is one of my top favorite songs of all time!
> White collar conservative flashin' down the street
> Pointin' their plastic finger at me, ha!
> They're hopin' soon my kind will drop and die but uh
> I'm gonna wave my freak flag high, high!
>
> Dig it!
So he's the one that used "freak flag". Did some others too?
O'Leary III
> My posts aren't showing up.
Sure they are.
I'll try this again: Clapton out-composed
> Hendrix, with the many styles of music he has recorded since Jimi's
> death. Jimi basically
> had one sound..and it got boring. Did Jimi play county music for
> example? No. Clapton is way more versatile than Jimi was. Jimi reminds
> me of going into a bar...and within the first set, ( about 45 minutes
> until the band takes a break) he blows his wad..holding nothing
> back..and plays so damn well...that by the second set, ( or sooner)
> there is nothing to forward to. You've heard it all, and you're
> already bored. Do you understand what I'm saying? The thing is, we'll
> never really know
> if Jimi had the capability of playing anything other than blues based
> rock. Jimi was stuck in a rut with his music..before he died...and had
> Clapton stayed with Cream
> with HIS 3 piece bands like Jimi..the last 40 years...... Well,
> maybe you get my point. It's kind of like Stevie Ray Vaughn. He's was
> an excellent guitarist for the blues..but what else did he play? He
> blew his wad too. I also like to hear versatility and some production
> once in a while. Hearing just music centered around a guitarist
> bores the hell out of me..but if that's the type of music that you
> like..hey, that's fine.
Well, the guy died a long time ago. Much like Lennon, there's always the
"might have been". Don't hate the brother.
SRV died with a good friend of mine. To me, that was the bigger tragedy.
I know he has many fans, though. The friend who died managed him and
Eric Clapton.
You know who was a big fan of Hendrix and Vaughn? Eric Clapton!
O'Leary III
>> Oooo. Manzanera.
>
>
> Isn't that Spanish for 'female apple peddler'?
SC, you're a card!
O'Leary III
> Duane excelled in both slide and "standard" playing. You can hear both
> styles extensively on the Allmans' albums. He is one of the first white
> guys playing slide blues who actually "got it". His technique swings, it
> just seems to come so naturally for him. As much as it pains me to say so,
> the technique is much better than George Harrison's, but the style of music
> is so different, it may be unfair to compare. But he has an unbelievable
> sense of timing with his slide playing. It ain't easy, trust me!
If you haven't seen the Tom Dowd documentary, you gotta. The whole Duane
- Eric relationship is covered really well in a fun way in the movie.
> We may quibble about the absolute rankings of the "top tier" (say, for the
> sake of argument the top 10), but as long as the list is mainly restricted
> to rock-related players, which it seems to be, there's no question in my
> mind that Duane belongs in the top tier. And I'm not a big Allmans fan, by
> the way.
I am, but primarily the Duane years, which is relatively short,
unfortunately.
> Remember, the list is best guitarists, not songwriters. He's one of the
> best slide guitarists to ever come along (along with Johnny Winter), and an
> excellent "standard-technique" player as well. I personally don't
> understand what the problem is, but I understand that others' tastes vary
> :-)
I heard that Johnny is not in good health. That's too bad. I always
liked him and Edgar.
abe slaney
> RichL wrote:
>
>> Remember, the list is best guitarists, not songwriters. He's one of the
>> best slide guitarists to ever come along (along with Johnny Winter),
>> and an
>> excellent "standard-technique" player as well. I personally don't
>> understand what the problem is, but I understand that others' tastes vary
Sorry Rich - I guess I missed this post at first. I'll be the first to
admit that I'm not a big Allman Bros. fan - not that I don't like them,
I do when I hear them, it's just not my cup of tea - so I haven't heard
everything DA did. Mostly it's the standard exposure (Live at the
Fillmore, Eat A Peach, Derek &). So I'm really only familiar with his
slide playing, not so much at all with his standard playing. And I don't
mean to take away from the slide work, it's great playing. But it all
sounds pretty much the same to me; same blues scales, same flourishes,
etc. I actually prefer Johnny Winter's playing, but as you say, it's
just a style and taste issue.
It's a good list to argue about, not much more!
Just noticed another omission: Steve Hillage.
RichL
news:1fudnYLyp6TntVPb...@comcast.com...
> RichL wrote:
>
> > Don't forget Angel, Ezy Rider, Freedom....
> > I will grant that there's something about Jimi's voice that's not for
> > everyone. But it is for me!
>
>
>
> "Angel" is one of my top favorite songs of all time!
One of his best!
> > White collar conservative flashin' down the street
> > Pointin' their plastic finger at me, ha!
> > They're hopin' soon my kind will drop and die but uh
> > I'm gonna wave my freak flag high, high!
> >
> > Dig it!
>
>
> So he's the one that used "freak flag". Did some others too?
I used Black Flag several times.