The Rutles and 'The Compleat Beatles'
Nowhere Man
>
> Since I saw All You Need is Cash way back when, I haven't been able to watch
> Brian Epstein interview footage without thinking of Leggy Mountbatten and
> the "their trousers - they were very tight" bit and laughing hysterically.
> Whoever it was who responded that this is the best retrospective the Beatles
> never did is dead on right. Pure gold.
absolutely..........pure gold.
It is so well thought out.
I for one will always love the part where a reporter (G Harrison) is
interviewing one of them outside Apple about the mystifying reasons for
their financial losses while in the background people are making off
with stuff from inside the building. So funny.
Also loved the bit where as they are breaking up, one of the Rutles
accidently sues himself LOL Pure gold as you say.
Will
Mike Warren
then watch 'The Complete Beatles'' video, back to back.
Neil Innes is IMO a genius, I dont think anyone else could have done a
Beatles send-up in such an affectionate way, and with such
humour,whilst still getting a 'Beatles' feel to the whole thing.
E.G. Before I watched 'The Rutles' Id seen 'The Compleat Beatles' a
number of times, and never laughed at Ringo wanting to be a
hairdresser, just taken it as said. After 'The Rutles' I cannot keep a
straight face, when watching 'The complete Beatles', and Ringo's 'I
want to be a hairdresser' comments ;)
Anyone know what was released first?..The Rutles..or the Compleat
Beatles?.
Mike Warren.
Mister Charlie
--
--------------------------------------------
"...I've had a Rut or two and I don't care..."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Michael Davis
them in on the work-to-date on the Beatles Anthology. Yes, there was some
work done in the seventies. Can anyone else confirm this rumor?
I find "The Rutles" the best documentary the Beatles never did. I
especially like the "Barry is also dead" campaign...
Mike Davis
******************************************************************************
"Why don't you write your own song if mine doesn't do it for you?"
--Matthew Sweet, 1999
davi...@pilot.msu.edu, michae...@usa.net, dav...@pa.msu.edu
http://www.pa.msu.edu/~davism -- NEWLY MODIFIED!
******************************************************************************
Rob Hughes
On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Mike Warren wrote:
> Watch 'The Rutles' Video
> then watch 'The Complete Beatles'' video, back to back.
just fyi, thedigitalbits.com is reporting a rumor that Rhino will be
releasing The Rutles on dvd this spring.
-Rob
Pjschindel
The Rutles "All You Need Is Cash," which came out in 1978; "The Compleat
Beatles" came out in 1982 (I believe).
Peter
William Scheckel
Brian Epstein interview footage without thinking of Leggy Mountbatten and
the "their trousers - they were very tight" bit and laughing hysterically.
Whoever it was who responded that this is the best retrospective the Beatles
never did is dead on right. Pure gold.
Will
Michael Davis
> It is so well thought out.
>
> I for one will always love the part where a reporter (G Harrison) is
> interviewing one of them outside Apple about the mystifying reasons for
> their financial losses while in the background people are making off
> with stuff from inside the building. So funny.
>
Don't forget the thieves nick George's microphone before he can finish the
interview! Ah, to have an uncut copy of "All You Need Is Cash."
Mister Charlie
100...@kepler.pa.msu.edu>,
Michael Davis <dav...@pa.msu.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Nowhere Man wrote:
>
> > It is so well thought out.
> >
> > I for one will always love the part where a reporter (G Harrison) is
> > interviewing one of them outside Apple about the mystifying reasons
for
> > their financial losses while in the background people are making off
> > with stuff from inside the building. So funny.
> >
>
> Don't forget the thieves nick George's microphone before he can
finish the
> interview! Ah, to have an uncut copy of "All You Need Is Cash."
>
> Mike Davis
>
>
insertions of obscure yet totally Beatle-flavored riffs and lyrics just
boggles my mind to this day. He really really got it! The soundtrack
stands totally on it's own. The album the Beatles should have done but
didn't.
Wrmbreze
Mike Warren
Michael Davis wrote:
> Believe it or not, "The Rutles" was done first.
Really?..Rutles first?..Id assumed that the Rutles style was taken from the
compleat Beatles. Maybe it was the other way round ;).
Im even more impressed now!.
Mike Warren
Mike Warren
Wrmbreze wrote:
> My favorite is "Cheese and Onions."
This song is so much like John its spooky. The words, tune and
structure. And the ending, one very short single piano note. ;-), a
very subtle nod towards the long drawn out piano note ending of 'A day
in the life'.
Mike Warren.
Mister Charlie
a wonderful, dead-on parody. Just awesome.
Cheese & Onions (the version Neill sang on Saturday Night Live) found
it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
actually John!
--
--------------------------------------------
"...I've had cheese and onions and I don't care..."
Madeleine BAROUKHEL-MOUREAU
masterpiece out ? Neil did the music. Eric wrote the script and directed.
Mister Charlie a écrit:
K. Warner
>
> Wrmbreze wrote:
>
> > My favorite is "Cheese and Onions."
>
> This song is so much like John its spooky. The words, tune and
> structure. And the ending, one very short single piano note. ;-), a
> very subtle nod towards the long drawn out piano note ending of 'A day
> in the life'.
>
> Mike Warren.
Neil Innes performed the song live on Saturday Night Live. Later
bootleg copies of that performance were released as being performed by
John Lennon!
KW
K. Warner
> >
> >
> > Wrmbreze wrote:
> >
> > > My favorite is "Cheese and Onions."
> >
> > This song is so much like John its spooky. The words, tune and
> > structure. And the ending, one very short single piano note. ;-), a
> > very subtle nod towards the long drawn out piano note ending of 'A day
> > in the life'.
> >
> > Mike Warren.
> >
> >
> a wonderful, dead-on parody. Just awesome.
>
> Cheese & Onions (the version Neill sang on Saturday Night Live) found
> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
> actually John!
> --
> --------------------------------------------
> "...I've had cheese and onions and I don't care..."
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Hey you remember that too!
KW
Mister Charlie
made...@baroukhel.claranet.fr wrote:
> Won't anyone praise Eric Idle as the one who thought the whole Rutles
> masterpiece out ? Neil did the music. Eric wrote the script and
directed.
>
> Mister Charlie a écrit:
>
> > Mike Warren <m...@here.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Wrmbreze wrote:
> > >
> > > > My favorite is "Cheese and Onions."
> > >
> > > This song is so much like John its spooky. The words, tune and
> > > structure. And the ending, one very short single piano note. ;-),
a
> > > very subtle nod towards the long drawn out piano note ending
of 'A day
> > > in the life'.
> > >
> > > Mike Warren.
> > >
> > >
> > Yeah. I always get a big smile on my face when I hear that note.
What
> > a wonderful, dead-on parody. Just awesome.
> >
> > Cheese & Onions (the version Neill sang on Saturday Night Live)
found
> > it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it
was
> > actually John!
Why, yes, my dear, absolutely! Eric Idle is brilliant and funny. I
was just thinking of the soundtrack, but regardless of the quality of
the music is that future generations will be studying Rutles to learn
about contemporary parody. I regret the omission.
oobujoobu
everyones opinion of the Archaeology album? I don't think too many Beatles
albums beat this one.
--
The Blitz! A splendid time is guaranteed for all
For more information visit http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/oobujoobu/
Wrmbreze <wrmb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000111231301...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
MrmmmBongo
>Whilst we're on the subject of the second greatest band in history, what's
>everyones opinion of the Archaeology album? I don't think too many Beatles
>albums beat this one.
I agree completely... actually, I don't think too many ANY albums beat
Archaeology!
Bonnie
neilinnes.org
William Scheckel
Back in 64 is the way all nostalgia should be, smile and a tear, truth and
sarcasm, all wrapped around a catchy melody. Rendezvous gets my biggest
belly laugh "We're the other members of the band..." (although in the split
second I wrote that, my mind cried out - "hey, what about the Knicker
Elastic King? Or Don't Know Why? Or Joe Public?"
To think this is *just* a parody!
Archaeology should have been a top 10 album.
On a somewhat more serious note, a question about the liner notes. They say
that Ollie Halsall (Eric Idle's replacement) died in 1992. Is this true, or
just another parody?
You can never be too sure with the Rutles.
Will
JNugent
>Archaeology is brilliant!
Agreed.
[snip]
>Archaeology should have been a top 10 album.
>On a somewhat more serious note, a question about the liner notes. They say
>that Ollie Halsall (Eric Idle's replacement) died in 1992. Is this true, or
>just another parody?
>You can never be too sure with the Rutles.
Ollie wasn't a "replacement" for Eric - Eric was only ever a Rutle *in the
film*, not on record.
Ollie was on all of the first batch of Rutles material - but I don't think
Eric was.
Beatlfilms
>Whilst we're on the subject of the second greatest band in history, what's
>everyones opinion of the Archaeology album? I don't think too many Beatles
>albums beat this one.
"Archaeology" is brilliant! Anybody who can come up with such neato titles as
"We've Arrived! (And To Prove It We're Here)" deserves more attention! One of
the lines that just slayed me the first time I heard it is in the track "Back
In '64":
"People had no time for pouring scorn (or scoring porn)"
D 28IF
>>that Ollie Halsall (Eric Idle's replacement) died in 1992. Is this true, or
>>just another parody?
>>You can never be too sure with the Rutles.
>
>Ollie wasn't a "replacement" for Eric - Eric was only ever a Rutle *in the
>film*, not on record.
>
>Ollie was on all of the first batch of Rutles material - but I don't think
>Eric was.
>
But to answer the original question - yes, Ollie really died. He completed
work (or most of it) on the Archaeology album and died before it was released.
Wonder if this means the end of Rutles albums. I know Neil wrote the songs, but
it seems Ollie contributed quite a bit. If it is, it's a damn shame.
Sisyphus
>bootleg copies of that performance were released as being performed by
>John Lennon!
no kidding! HA!
i can see why, though...it's so Lennon it scares me...
alley
MrPither12
From: Mike Warren m...@here.com
Watch 'The Rutles' Video
then watch 'The Complete Beatles'' video, back to back.
Neil Innes is IMO a genius, I dont think anyone else could have done a
Beatles send-up in such an affectionate way, and with such
humour,whilst still getting a 'Beatles' feel to the whole thing. >>
I can think of one other person: Eric Idle. Sure, the Rutle music is a
brilliant parody of Beatle songs, but the story, scenario and dialog come from
the brilliant mind of Eric Idle. He conceived the Rutles and wrote the movie.
Let's not forget him!
Mrwither
>Archaeology is brilliant!
<snip>
>Archaeology should have been a top 10 album.
Virgin Records certainly thought so when they signed Neil innes to do an
album spoofing Anthology. George harrison certainly thought so becuse
he gave neil innes his blessing to do the album. Both of the other
original performing Rutles (ricky Fataar, and John Halsey) thought so.
But Eric Idle who had no part in the creation of the Rutles music got
bent out of shape that neil and the other rutles might get a little of
the spotlight and pressurized Broadway Video (who owned the Rutles name)
to threaten lawsuits unless he got a huge cut of the album (on which
he’d not written, arranged, sung, played or produced a note.) This
blackmail went on for 3 weeks immediately befor the album was released
and Virgin records got scared and pulled the plug on all its previously
planned marketing for the album. When the album came out it was DOA.
On the Python website Eric also accused Neil Innes of “intellectually
raping” him - even though Neil was the sole creator of all the Rutles
music and was just trying to make a sequel to his own album.
Most people in the Beatles/Python circle were horrified but not
surprised by eric’s attitude and actions. This was all reported on in
rmb and alt.fan.python last year by a lady called pbluther who did a
thorughly researched article about the whole sorry saga.
The funny thing was there was a flurry of sycophantic Eric idle fans
writing to defend his action saying that it wasnt true that eric was
selfish and was an unwilling collaborator, that he was a great guy and
that it was Neil Innes and the other rutles who were being unfair.
People who hadnt made up their minds about who was at fault couldnt
really draw any fair conclusions about who was right or wrong though the
majority did at least start to suspect that there couldnt be all that
smoke without a little fire But a lot of people did try and give eric
the benefit of the doubt. After all there was no previous example of
him behaving badly towards his friends.. Maybe the idle-worshippers
were right. maybe it WAS just a jealous Neil Innes and a few women like
pbluther who had a vendetta against eric idle. some even speculated
that pbluther was a girl who eric had dumped or scorned and that she was
just out to destroy him.
well the old saying that everything comes out in the wash certtainlty
proved true. last year eric pulled a similar stunt on his old pals in
Monty Python. they were trying to wrk out how to celebrate their 30th
anniversary. the Pythons always decide everything on a democratic
basis. well eric was all for them going out on a full-on american tour
to try and make as much money as possible. The other guys thought about
it for a long time but finally they felt that doing a long tour
especially without graham would be wrong (rather like the Beatles not
wanting to reform for live gigs without John) They also thought that
going so nakedly for the big reuniuon tour money was just such a trashy
lowrent thing to do. They thought that a TV special for the BBC would
be more approriate. So they all decided to do that. Except for Eric. He
refused to appear in any skits with them He just taped a couple of solo
bits. Then he went on British and American TV and started being very
nasty about them though his friends later claimed that he was just
trying to be funny (!) The other pythons are still pretty pissed at
him.
And now Eric is going on tour on his own. In an effort to deflect
criticism eric is very accuratel calling his tour eric Idle Exploits
Monty Python. As if making a joke about it in advance exonerates him.
Imagine Ringo going out there on tour as “Ringo Plays The Beatles” or
Paul as “Paul Sings The Lennon-McCartney Songbook” neither of them
would ever be so schlocky. Playing Beatles songs in their sets is one
thing. Putting the magical beatles word in the name of a solo show
would be a tacky attempt to cash in. But how many people would come to
an eric Idles show containing python skits WITHOUT the Monty Python name
in the show title? You cant blame Eric Idle for knowing that he’ll
make far more money if he puts the Python name in the title. But you
can draw your own conclusions about his motivation.
So if you followed the rutles pbluther saga and ever wondered if it
COULD be true that eric Idle could behave like a shit towards his old
pal Neil Innes but shrugged it off. Well seeing him behave like a shit
towards his old pals John Cleese, Michael palin, terry Jones, terry
Gilliam certainly makes one understand that it if looks like a turd,
smells like a turd, behaves like a turd, then there is a faint
possibility that despite his brillian talent (which youd have to be an
eric idle hater to deny) it probably is a turd. The idle apology squad
who pop up to vigorously defend his every tantrum and misdeed can say
all they want. And believe me - they will!!!! But I dont hate eric
idle. I think hes a very funny guy. But I also say that he shat on
neil Innes and the rutles. he shat on his pals in Monty Python. and he
certainly shat all over the archaeology album and prevented any chance
of it becoming a success.
Chad Grace
> a wonderful, dead-on parody. Just awesome.
>
> Cheese & Onions (the version Neill sang on Saturday Night Live) found
> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
> actually John!
Is this live version on any other bootlegs and/or websites?
I also love Let's Be Natural, which to me stands on its own, not as a
parody, but just as a cool song. Goose-Step Mama kicks butt, too - an
absolutely ridiculous send-up of Some Other Guy.
And the lyrics to Get Up & Go kill me... "He traded all his money for a
pick-up truck, and went looking for a medium load." What the hell?? "Medium
load" - I have no idea what that means but it cracks me up every time.
The Archaeology stuff is also brilliant. I think Neil Innes is a total
genius and I wish his other work was widely available. Apparently he did
some solo albums, too, but they're all out of print, I think. I sure would
love to hear those puppies.
MrmmmBongo
>brilliant parody of Beatle songs, but the story, scenario and dialog come
>from
>the brilliant mind of Eric Idle. He conceived the Rutles and wrote the movie.
>Let's not forget him!
>
ABSOLUTELY! I thought it was completely 50/50; it wouldn't have been as good
if it were Neil and anybody else, or Eric and anybody else. When I think of
the funniest bits in the movie ... e.g. "He's .lyin'! He's always lyin'!" ...
that was Eric's brilliance.
Regarding the ugliness, I take the position that I wasn't there, I don't know
what happened between Eric & Neil, but I wish they'd both just cut it out and
do something brilliant together again!
Bonnie
Chad Grace
>
> http://rutlemania.org
>
> you can also hear a lot more Neil Innes songs at
>
> http://neilinnes.org
>
> Bonnie
Awesome - Thanks, Bonnie. The rutlemania link didn't work, but the other one
has the cheese and onions track, plus an absolute ton of other stuff. This
is great!
:3)
Chad Grace
> >> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
> >> actually John!
> >> --
> >
> >Is this live version on any other bootlegs and/or websites?
>
>
>
Cool - was it just Neil playing or was it the whole band? Was the SNL band
behind him?
Chad Grace
> seals the deal. If you take away either half of the Rultes project, ie
look
> at the music or the movie separately, the result is average at beast. But
> together, it is glorious. Not unlike Lennon/McCartney, actually.
> But what I don't understand is, why didn't Eric play the music? Everyone
> knows he's got the pipes. I had never heard of any falling out between
Idle
> and Innes before Bonnie's post, but could this have been a part of the
> problem?
From what I remember reading (probably from pbluther's posts) Idle was only
going to play the interviewer, but the people marketing the film thought it
would be better if he was in the band, as well. So he played Dirk in the
film, lip-synching Ollie's singing voice. I might be mistaken, but I think
Ollie was supposed to be Dirk in the film until that decision was made.
> Where can I find out more about the behind the scenes stuff of the
> making/conception of the two Rutles projects?
> Will
Well, you could search Deja.com for pbluther's articles. Other than that I
dunno....
William Scheckel
seals the deal. If you take away either half of the Rultes project, ie look
at the music or the movie separately, the result is average at beast. But
together, it is glorious. Not unlike Lennon/McCartney, actually.
But what I don't understand is, why didn't Eric play the music? Everyone
knows he's got the pipes. I had never heard of any falling out between Idle
and Innes before Bonnie's post, but could this have been a part of the
problem?
MrmmmBongo
>> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
>> actually John!
>> --
>
>Is this live version on any other bootlegs and/or websites?
The Cheese & Onions & Shangri-la is at
Sisyphus
>> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming it was
>> actually John!
>> --
>
>Is this live version on any other bootlegs and/or websites?
not sure...i taped it off Comedy Central...they show old SNL reruns...
alley
Gwendiblee
>Won't anyone praise Eric Idle as the one who thought the whole Rutles
>masterpiece out ? Neil did the music. Eric wrote the script and directed.
Eric SHOULD be praised. But as one HALF of the two who thought up the
whole Rutles masterpiece. Eric did not conceive the Rutles on his own
or even start it.. It started when Neil wrote a spoof Beatles song and
conceived doing a spoof video of Hard Day’s Night for the UK TV show he
did with Eric (Rutland Weekend TV) Eric wrote a sketch to wrap around
the song and came up with the name the Rutles.
When Lorne michaels suggested it be expanded into a film Eric wrote the
script (though Neil and the other Rutles did improvise a lot of the
funny moments in the film)
Neil wrote, arranged, performed and produced all the music. Eric was
given a CO-director credit alongside the acknowledged primary director
of the film Gary Weis who was an established director (he did all the
SNL film parodies)
IMO Neil and Eric deserve EQUAL credit for the original conception.
EQUAL credit for the brilliance of the film. The comedy without the
songs wouldn;t be half as funny. The music without the comedy would be
fun but was more fun in the context of the film.
But Neil does deserve 100% of the credit for the music both All You Need
Is Cash and Archaeology. Eric had absolutely nothing to do with the
music. Had no hand in the song titles, lyrics, music, performing,
arranging or producing anything on either of the two albums.
Sisyphus
(sorry to confuse any uninvolved parties)
alley
Sisyphus
>dunno....
or not. i have heard that they were wuite inacccurate...
alley
Chad Grace
You're probably right.
Chad Grace
I
> >dunno....
>
> or not. i have heard that they were wuite inacccurate...
Yeah, you're probably right.
Will: Best you go to www.rutlemania.org and check out this great interview
with Eric Idle, which I just discovered actually answers all your questions.
Turns out the info I gave was kind of right, but not really.
Apparently their server is having some trouble, because I've only been able
to get through once today. But keep trying, 'cause it's a *killer* site.
:3)
saris...@mx3.redestb.es
mrmmm...@aol.com (MrmmmBongo) wrote:
> >> Cheese & Onions (the version Neill sang on Saturday Night Live)
found
> >> it's way to a few bootlegs (Indian Rope Trick, for one) claiming
it was
> >> actually John!
> >> --
> >
> >Is this live version on any other bootlegs and/or websites?
>
>
> http://rutlemania.org
>
> you can also hear a lot more Neil Innes songs at
>
> http://neilinnes.org
Jeez Bonnie, and here I was, going to try and get brownie points by
steering this guy your way!
Maria
thedoubt...@my-deja.com
mrmmm...@aol.com (MrmmmBongo) wrote:
> ABSOLUTELY! I thought it was completely 50/50; it wouldn't have been
as good
> if it were Neil and anybody else, or Eric and anybody else. When I
think of
> the funniest bits in the movie ... e.g. "He's .lyin'! He's always
lyin'!" ...
> that was Eric's brilliance.
Well.....I think everyone has their own preferences with regard to this
kind of thing. I personally am not into Eric's type of humour, so for
me the really worthwhile thing about the Rutles was their music. But,
for a lot people, it was the script that made the whole thing special,
so, logically, they are going to think of Eric being the true moving
force behind the whole project. It just depends on what your
priorities are.
> Regarding the ugliness, I take the position that I wasn't there, I
don't know
> what happened between Eric & Neil, but I wish they'd both just cut it
out and
> do something brilliant together again!
Maybe if ALL of us took the attitude that we weren't there and
therefore don't have a clue as to what really happened--instead of
automatically choosing sides and making contentious statements--the
atmosphere surrounding the whole issue would cool down somewhat.
We're talking about two guys who've known and worked with each other
for over 30 years. No doubt their relationship has a lot of complex
threads to it that no one, no matter how "in the know" they think they
are, really understands.
James Allen
>behind him?
IIRC, It was a filmed segment of Neil playing "Cheese and Onions" on the piano.
Sisyphus
>>
>
>behind him?
just neil - sitting at a white piano in a white suit with a white background...
with Lennon hair...so real it's creepy...
alley
Gwendiblee
> > >Well, you could search Deja.com for pbluther's articles.
>> or not. i have heard that they were wuite inacccurate...
>>Yeah, you're probably right.
Not what I heard. I think she did slant her story in favor of Neil
innes and the others. Theres definitely SOME editorializing going on.
But that may be becuase she heard more from Neils side. Or it could
just be because that what her genuine conclusions were. I read all the
charges and countercharges thrown at pbluther and all her responses and
no one could really challenge her facts. My only problem was that even
if she started out neutral as she claims by the end of her research she
had arrived at a position in which she concluded that Eric was more in
the wrong than Neil
Where I did agree with her was that even if you accept the argument that
some put out that Eric as 50% creator of the overall project (though he
had nothing to do with the music) had a LEGAL or even MORAL right to
veto anything with the Rutles name for whatever reason he wanted to - it
would have been GRACIOUS to the other guys to let them go ahead. It
wouldnt have hurt him. he's a wealthy guy. i dont think the others
are. It wasnt HIS music. George Harrison ferchrissakes was encouraging
neil to do it (and he had more right to stop it than anyone!) So if
they wanted to have a go at another album why not just shrug your
shoulders and say "well it's not my thing but if you guys wanna do it -
good luck"
Thats what nice guys do and thats been my whole problem with eric. it
seems that hes not nice to his friends. Theres no rule that says he has
to be. but it would be so mucher... nicer if he was. As Neil Innes
said "Life is too Short To be small" As John and Paul said: "Life is
very short and theres no time for fussing and fighting"
one other thing. I remember reading that eric told Neil that it was a
bad idea to revisit the rutles and do anything with it again. he said
it should be left alone as the original film and never touched.
Well guess whose trotting out the rutles and dirk mcquickley names on
tour this year? The same guy who wouldnt let neil, ricky and John
Halsey do it in 1996.
So lets see now. the people who in the last couple of years who seem to
have developed one opinion of eric are neil Innes, ricky fataar, john
halsey, john cleese, michael palin, terry jones and terry Gilliam (who
have all known and worked with him for 25-30 years)
and in the other corner we have MrPither12 (who has met him once or
twice and apparently wants to keep in his good books for professional
reasons) Madeleine BAROUKHEL-MOUREAU (who according to her posts in
alt.fan.monty-python wants to tie him up and do naughty French sexual
things to him!) and a few other apologists.
DUH!
Pinniped
"Gwendiblee" <gwend...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000113201150...@ng-fd1.aol.com...
> IMO Neil and Eric deserve EQUAL credit for the original conception.
> EQUAL credit for the brilliance of the film. The comedy without the
> songs wouldn;t be half as funny. The music without the comedy would be
> fun but was more fun in the context of the film.
>
> But Neil does deserve 100% of the credit for the music both All You Need
> Is Cash and Archaeology. Eric had absolutely nothing to do with the
> music. Had no hand in the song titles, lyrics, music, performing,
> arranging or producing anything on either of the two albums.
I'd agree with this. However, I think it's also part of why
"Archaeology" was disappointing. WIthout Eric's "liner notes" the music
itself just doesn't stand up as anything near as brilliant as the original
Rutles album. There are a couple of good songs, but it's far from the
classic the original was.
If Idle and Innes had managed to work together on it, they might have
come up with something really substantial: a booklet, for instance,
parodying the ones in the "Anthology" CD's "explaining" the songs in detail,
and perhaps including a few more "sound bite" or partially complete songs to
the CD as well.
If you want further proof, see if you can find "Rutles Highway
Revisited" -- a CD which features cover versions of a number of Rutles songs
by a variety of obscure artists. Not really all that worth having (though
the Shonen Knife cover of "Goose-Step Mama" is amusing as hell), but it
includes an "interview" with Ron Nasty, written by Neil Innes, and it just
isn't very funny. I like the man's music a great deal, but at least in that
instance, his humor didn't translate well into print.
--
--Pinniped
To send email, just don't be a doofus.
JackStar74
background...
with Lennon hair...so real it's creepy...
alley
>>
Anyone have a taped copy of this show? Funny thing, I noticed..in the SNL 20th
Anniversary book, its lists Neil as doing "Shangri La"
John
Chad Grace
> "Archaeology" was disappointing. WIthout Eric's "liner notes" the music
> itself just doesn't stand up as anything near as brilliant as the original
> Rutles album. There are a couple of good songs, but it's far from the
> classic the original was.
It's true that most of the songs, save for perhaps the first two, aren't as
"in character" as the first album, but that doesn't make it disappointing
for me. Mostly because I just love Neil Innes so much, and it's wonderful to
hear him actually singing about something... rather than just being silly.
He was the brain behind all of the music, anyway. And it's the music of the
Rutles that makes the project so magical for me. Nothing against Eric Idle,
because I love him as well, but without Neil's songs the Rutles never would
have had gotten this much mileage. And Archaeology, while showing more of
the real Neil than Nasty, is truly brilliant. Eine Kleine Middle Klasse
Music, Don't Know Why, I Love You... man! These are *damn* great songs.
I can understand why someone expecting a whole new album of Goose-Step Mama
and Piggy In The Middle kind of stuff would feel let down, but I think in
doing so they're missing out on some of Innes's best work.
------> Chad.
James Allen
>"in character" as the first album, but that doesn't make it disappointing
>for me. Mostly because I just love Neil Innes so much, and it's wonderful to
>hear him actually singing about something... rather than just being silly.
>
>He was the brain behind all of the music, anyway. And it's the music of the
>Rutles that makes the project so magical for me. Nothing against Eric Idle,
>because I love him as well, but without Neil's songs the Rutles never would
>have had gotten this much mileage. And Archaeology, while showing more of
>the real Neil than Nasty, is truly brilliant. Eine Kleine Middle Klasse
>Music, Don't Know Why, I Love You... man! These are *damn* great songs.
>
>I can understand why someone expecting a whole new album of Goose-Step Mama
>and Piggy In The Middle kind of stuff would feel let down, but I think in
>doing so they're missing out on some of Innes's best work.
>
>------> Chad.
>
It took awhile for "Archaeology" to grow on me, but grow on me it did. "Shangra
La" is my favorite tune, and has one of the cleverest opening lines I've ever
heard:
"Did you ever get the feeling/ that the truth is less revealing/ than a
downright lie."
saris...@mx3.redestb.es
"Pinniped" <pinn...@imadoofus.san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> If you want further proof, see if you can find "Rutles Highway
> Revisited" -- a CD which features cover versions of a number of
Rutles songs
> by a variety of obscure artists. Not really all that worth having
(though
> the Shonen Knife cover of "Goose-Step Mama" is amusing as hell), but
it
> includes an "interview" with Ron Nasty, written by Neil Innes, and it
just
> isn't very funny. I like the man's music a great deal, but at least
in that
> instance, his humor didn't translate well into print.
I'd have to agree that those particular liner notes read like Neil
wrote them in his sleep--didn't he say that he didn't have anything to
do with that project, they just approached him with it as a fait
accompli and asked him to write the liner notes? But I've read many
things he's written and, though his humour is not of the "clutch your
sides and roll around on the floor" sort, they were pretty damn funny
(in a whimsical, weird way). But, if someone's AIM is not to make you
roll on the floor, and you therefore don't, do you consider that that
person has failed? And if you were expecting a laugh a line with
Archaeology, of COURSE you were going to be disappointed, because that
was not the aim of the project. There are an awful lot of definitions
of "comedy," and even more for "humour."
It all depends on what your orientation is. I don't want to belabour
this point too much, because I don't want to offend my friends and
other people I respect, but I personally don't find most Python-type
humour anything out of this world, while I find things that Neil do, in
their own unique way, strike some sort of resonance that nothing else
does.
microknee finger
> this point too much, because I don't want to offend my friends and
> other people I respect, but I personally don't find most Python-type
> humour anything out of this world, while I find things that Neil do, in
> their own unique way, strike some sort of resonance that nothing else
> does.
>
> Maria
Wonderful sentiment which I agree with, even though I'm a shameless python
kinda guy.
Neil's music does indeed stand apart.
------> Chad.
D 28IF
>
>------> Chad.
True. Even in Python projects.
I love his "Brave Sir Robin" song from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
James Allen
>this point too much, because I don't want to offend my friends and
>other people I respect, but I personally don't find most Python-type
>humour anything out of this world, while I find things that Neil do, in
>their own unique way, strike some sort of resonance that nothing else
>does.
>
>Maria
I agree. I like Python the TV show, but that kind of wackiness doesn't
automatically translate to the printed page. Note the forced whimsy of the
liner notes to the two Traveling Wiburys albums (by Palin and Idle,
respectively.)
microknee finger
Good point - Python's strength has a lot to do with their delivery, timing
and body language. Absolute genius all the same, but kind of hard to get
across on the page alone.
William Scheckel
> Good point - Python's strength has a lot to do with their delivery, timing
> and body language. Absolute genius all the same, but kind of hard to get
> across on the page alone.
Very true! Did you ever read Terry Jones' Starship Titanic? He and Douglas
Adams sit down to work on a project together and it's boring - How does that
happen?!? And Idle's Road to Mars isn't much better. Comedic genius, but not
in print.
Will
Mike Warren
I watched these again the other day, after hearing that 'The Rutles' was actually
done first.
Im sure that the makers of 'The Compleat Beatles' either on purpose or
sub-conciously based it on the Rutles.
similarities..(off the top of me head).
1) Ringo's ambition to be a hairdresser
2) Paul saying 'we'd like to do some more of our own compositions'
3) The references to professors of music.
4) Epstein describing what he like about the Beatles.(Leggys wife in The Rutles)
5) George Martin describing how he first heard the Beatles.
6) The 'furore' about Johns comments about god.(even the bit where John says 'I
suppose ill get into trouble for saying that'.)
7) The descriptions of hamburg.
8) Stigs 'this is for a very special lady in the audience...Barrys mum'. at the
royal variety performance. (alusion to Johns 'rattle ya jewelery').
just a few..may many more.
Mike Warren.
James Allen
Well, all those little interview or performance clips that the Rutles parodied
were pretty well known at the time, and I'm sure Eric and Weiss did a little
research to get the look and feel of the parody clips right.
As for the Compleat Beatles, they could hardly not include such clips, now
could they?
Mike Warren
James Allen wrote:
Ah..yes..the point is that there are thousands of clips etc etc, just rather
coincidental that both should use much the same ones.
Mike Warren.
saris...@mx3.redestb.es
jacks...@aol.com (JackStar74) wrote:
> Anyone have a taped copy of this show? Funny thing, I noticed..in the
SNL 20th
> Anniversary book, its lists Neil as doing "Shangri La"
Ahhhhhhhh, yesssssssss....everyone blathers on and on and on and on
about the Cheese & Onions segment, which was fun but...well, just fun,
and they completely forget that Shangri-La was on the very same show!
Of course, this is a Beatles forum, so I suppose people here would be
more interested in a Rutle-related segment (at the time of the show,
Shangri-La was not Rutle-ised at ALL), but in my own opinion, Shangri-
La is one of the weirdest, most surreal, bizarre, creative and fun
moments in TV history. If you take a look at it, Neil's working on far
more different levels of meaning than any of us are accustomed to
seeing outside of cinema (I'd bet that the response at the time from a
lot of people was, "Who's the asshole with the ears?").
Suppose all of that sounds a bit over the top to say, but it's true--
the only things I can think of in the same category come from either
film or video formats, which are easier to make complex and visually
exciting because you've got the luxury of time and special effects to
enhance them. This was just a guy on a stage with a few decorations
and props.
Ummm...errr...if you haven't seen it, you have NO IDEA what I'm on
about, do you? I know Laurie and Bonnie have some pictures up on the
website (http://neilinnes.org for the 4 of you who don't already know),
but of course that's not like actually SEEING it.
Ross Clement
Beatles documentary (which through a long and winding road became The
Compleat Beatles) before making The Rutles.
Cheers,
Ross-c