John Lennon - bad father?
S. Lundy
In the Daily Mail today (a British paper) there was a big article about how
John Lennon was a bad father, according to an interview with Sean in Rolling
Stones magazine. Julian confirmed this statement, that he was a bad
tempered, adultering, largely absent father.
Comments?
Steve
S. Lundy
S. Lundy
Dprudence4
well someone should try being a Beatle
and see if they can do these responsibility
things to make a good father. I want to know the definition
of a "good father"
Jay
shus...@my-dejanews.com
In article <199805261649...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
You've got to be kidding! The other three Beatles all have children and
I've never heard even a whisper that any of them are bad parents. Somehow
they've managed, fame or no fame.
John's track record at parenting is pretty well documented. I love his
music as much as anyone, but let's not shrug off the pain the man brought to
the people who loved him and needed him.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Philippe IGLESIAS
Je préfére sincérement le pére de Sean que sa mére yoko !!
S. Lundy a écrit dans le message
<6keovg$i4v$1...@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>...
Tom
>>well someone should try being a Beatle and see if they can do these
>responsibility things to make a good father.
>
>I believe Paul, George and Ringo took a stab at it.
Not really. Paul and George weren't fathers until after they were Beatles. I
may be wrong but I think Ringo's son was born after Beatlemania. John was
the only one who was a father when things got crazy, the others had time to
learn how to handle it. By the time George was a father, everything had long
since died down.
Not to take away from them, being a good parent under any circumstances is
nothing to dismiss lightly, but it's not a valid comparison.
S. Lundy
Amaranth56
>Paul and George weren't fathers until after they were Beatles. I
>may be wrong but I think Ringo's son was born after Beatlemania.
Zak was born in 1965, and Jason in 1967. Their daughter Lee was born in 1970.
LLS2112
I think that Sean was mainly referring to the fact that his father had a bad
temper and would yell at him. This doesn't mean he behaved like that all the
time or that he was not a good father with Sean at all. Probably, when he was
in a bad mood, he would sometimes say things he didn't really mean. Many people
do this. They shouldn't, but they do. John probably felt guility when he took
this anger out on Sean. He was human, and I think that some people are making a
bigger deal out of Sean's interview than they should. I don't think that
Julian's accusation of John being a bad father is the same as Sean's accusation
of John being a bad father. Julian seemed to be saying that his father didn't
pay enough attention to him. John was not a perfect parent. I doubt if he ever
really felt comfortable around children. I don't see John as a saint or a
devil. I just see him as a human who sometimes made mistakes.
Tup...@seaside.net
> and see if they can do these responsibility
> of a "good father"
> Jay
>
Uhm...Paul McCartney?!!!!
Tup...@seaside.net
In article <199805261649...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dprud...@aol.com (Dprudence4) wrote:
>
> well someone should try being a Beatle
> and see if they can do these responsibility
> things to make a good father. I want to know the definition
> of a "good father"
> Jay
>
Me again. I'm still laughing at this ridiculous statement! Being a good
father means NOT ABANDONING your children. Being a Beatle, policeman,
pharmacist, doctor or ditchdigger has nothing to do with it. Can you imagine
what it was like for Julian growing up with a dad that would rather give
himself to the world that spend time with his son? Beatlemania overwith, John
continued to ignore his fistborn son thru the '70's. In reality...John was a
complete and utter failure as a father to Julian!
S. Lundy
DblFantasy wrote in message
<199805262006...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>well someone should try being a Beatle and see if they can do these
>responsibility things to make a good father.
>
>I believe Paul, George and Ringo took a stab at it.
Hello
Well Paul definately took a stab at it - it is widely accepted that "Hey
Jude"'s concept was originally "Hey Jules", and Paul wrote it consoling
Julian about John's divorce to his mother.
By the way, sorry for repeating my original message so much. Something
wrong with my thing.
Steve
Tatum Fan
Remember too that when Julian was young, John was away very often on tour.
Unfortunately, John was a major adulterer (he once had seven women at a party,
according to his recollection, or should I say, they once had him), and
probably had little patience with family life. He also once said (as did Johnny
Carson) that it's not a good thing to marry in one's early 20's as you are too
busy working at that time, building a career, to adequately raise a family.
Terranova0
How old was Sean when his dad died? 5 or so? Hmmmm.
I'll be taking all that with a grain of salt.
Who do you know that had/has a "perfect" relationship with their parents?
Hell, my parents yelled at me, punished me, spanked me, abandoned me-left me
with my evil brother and sister while they went out to dinner and stuff- then
my parents actually had the nerve to divorce..... Come on. We all have our
sad tales of childhood, why should we judge the Lennons any differently? Big
deal- so JL was a jerk sometimes. That may even be part of what I like about
him. hehehe
Brightest Blessings* Terranova
Visit:Terranova0's Village
http://members.aol.com/Terranova0/Terranova0.index.html
Terranova0
> shus...@my-dejanews.com
>Date: Tue, May 26, 1998 16:05 EDT
>I've never heard even a whisper that any of them are bad parents. Somehow
>they've managed, fame or no fame.
Their kids also didn't experience the traumatic murder of their fathers. I
would expect a lot of rage from two such children- why was our daddy killed?
was he a bad man? Want some salt?
Helen...@my-dejanews.com
In article <199805281443...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
terra...@aol.com (Terranova0) wrote:
>
> How old was Sean when his dad died? 5 or so? Hmmmm.
> I'll be taking all that with a grain of salt.
>
> Who do you know that had/has a "perfect" relationship with their parents?
> Hell, my parents yelled at me, punished me, spanked me, abandoned me-left me
> with my evil brother and sister while they went out to dinner and stuff- then
> my parents actually had the nerve to divorce..... Come on. We all have our
> sad tales of childhood, why should we judge the Lennons any differently? Big
> deal- so JL was a jerk sometimes. That may even be part of what I like about
> him. hehehe
>
> Visit:Terranova0's Village
> http://members.aol.com/Terranova0/Terranova0.index.html
>
I would have GLADLY traded places!!! They have no idea how *bad* a father
John was unless they traded places with ME and lived with mine.
My father never spank but was extremely abusive physically. Their is a
difference between a spank and being abusive which I won't go into detail
here and amoung other things which I lived through during my childhood.
Again, I would have traded places with those kids any time.
Justyn909
John certainly wasn't a _good_ father to Julian, but if Sean thinks John was a
bad father to _him_, he doesn't know the meaning of the term.
John took 5 years off from his musical career to raise Sean. That's _John_, not
Yoko. According to the 'official story', he dedicated himself to being as much
of a father to this kid as he wished his father could have been to him. Even
Seaman, who claims that as far as he could see, the 'perfect' relationship of
John and Yoko was a manufactured myth, says that John was a devoted (though not
perfect) father. Hell, even Goldman admits it!
So here's Sean complaining that he had a lousy dad, 'a macho asshole', who
wouldn't let him eat refined sugar or watch commercials? This, while Yoko is
'Mother Teresa'?
Now, actually, having read the article, I don't think Sean was saying that he
had a bad father. But if he is, there's something wrong with him. Julian's got
every right to say that he didn't have a good father. Sean doesn't.
-Justyn
"Well, he hands you a nickel,
He hands you a dime,
He asks you with a grin
If you're havin' a good time,
Then he fines you every time you slam the door,
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more."
-Bob Dylan
Tom
>So here's Sean complaining that he had a lousy dad, 'a macho asshole', who
>wouldn't let him eat refined sugar or watch commercials? This, while Yoko
is
>'Mother Teresa'?
>
Somethings wrong when Sean gets grief for thinking highly of his mother.
Isn't that usually considered a good thing?
Hiestzie
>Somethings wrong when Sean gets grief for thinking highly of his mother.
Isn't that usually considered a good thing?
We liked John's albums better than Yoko's albums. Nuff said.
RasMaster
In article <199805311800...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, hies...@aol.com
(Hiestzie) writes:
I get it. You didn't like Yoko's albums, preferring John's. Therefore, we
should be appalled that Sean thinks she was a good mother.
Of course. How silly of me to think otherwise.
Bob Purse
Justyn909
>
>
>>So here's Sean complaining that he had a lousy dad, 'a macho asshole', who
>>wouldn't let him eat refined sugar or watch commercials? This, while Yoko
>is
>>'Mother Teresa'?
>>
>Isn't that usually considered a good thing?
I guess it's against the law around here to even mention Ms. Ono without a
flurry of gushing adjectives and a comment that anyone who doesn't like her is
a racist, but my point was not that Sean shouldn't think highly of his mother,
but that his comments seem to indicate that while he seems to have decided that
his father was a pretty flawed human being (wouldn't let him watch commercials,
allegedly cheated on his mother), while his mother is a saint (she never
cheated on John?). A pretty skewed view of things, IMO.
BeefJyrky
>I get it. You didn't like Yoko's albums, preferring John's. Therefore, we<BR>
>should be appalled that Sean thinks she was a good mother.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course. How silly of me to think otherwise.<BR>
><BR>
>Bob Purse<BR>
First, Yoko's music (before John's death) is John's compositons. Anything after
that was written and played by studio musicians. She has no musical talent
whatsoever. She clearly can't sing.
If Sean is happy with the way she raised him, then that's fine.
From what I've heard, Sean is following Yoko's musical tracks.
A bad road to choose when your father is John Lennon. She is raising him her
way. Just like she did with John. But Purse like
Chen, will defend her til the end.
"A Chen in the hand is worth two in the Purse"
RasMaster
In article <199806010340...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, beef...@aol.com
(BeefJyrky) writes:
>
>First, Yoko's music (before John's death) is John's compositons.
How do ya figure that one?
>Anything
>after that was written and played by studio musicians.
I believe she is classically trained on the piano. Again, how do ya figure
her songs were written by studio musicians?
She has no musical talent
>whatsoever.
Again, she is classically trained.
>She clearly can't sing.
Not in a way you prefer to listen to. Our opinions differ here.
>If Sean is happy with the way she raised him, then that's fine.
This was the only point of my post. The previous post appeared to indicate
the belief that Sean was off-base in considering Yoko to be a good
parent, due to the dislike of her albums. That is what the post appeared
to say. This is the only thing I was commenting on. I made no comment
in that post about the quality of Yoko's music or her parenting.
>From what I've heard, Sean is following Yoko's musical tracks.
In other words, you haven't heard the music. Neither have I, so I will refrain
from editorial comment.
>A bad road to choose when your father is John Lennon. She is raising him her
>way. Just like she did with John. But Purse like Chen, will defend her til the
>end.
Please explain how I defended her in the post you quoted. I only pointed out
a glaring error in logic in a previous post. As I said, that post said nothing
about the quality (or lack thereof) in Yoko's music or her parenting. Not
a single word. Perhaps you might re-read it?
And then, how about trying to address the issues at hand, instead of
trying to change the subject to the musical preferences of other posters.
When you do that, it begins to look as if you are having trouble defending
your point of view.
Bob Purse
Tom
>First, Yoko's music (before John's death) is John's compositons.
First, you're absolutely wrong, as you would be able to tell if you'd ever
heard her songs since their writing styles have very little in common.
> Anything after
>that was written and played by studio musicians.
Written no. Played yes, but that puts her in good company. All four ex
Beatles for instance.
> She has no musical talent
>whatsoever. She clearly can't sing.
Wrong again. I'll refrain from putting up the list again, but let's just say
that I'd trust the musical judgement of everyone on it before I'd trust
yours.
>If Sean is happy with the way she raised him, then that's fine.
>From what I've heard, Sean is following Yoko's musical tracks.
You don't listen very well then. Aside from when he backed Yoko, their music
has little in common.
Tom
>>Somethings wrong when Sean gets grief for thinking highly of his mother.
>>Isn't that usually considered a good thing?
>
>I guess it's against the law around here to even mention Ms. Ono without a
>flurry of gushing adjectives and a comment that anyone who doesn't like her
is
>a racist,
My post is quoted in its entirety, where does it say a word about racism?
>but my point was not that Sean shouldn't think highly of his mother,
>but that his comments seem to indicate that while he seems to have decided
that
>his father was a pretty flawed human being (wouldn't let him watch
commercials,
>allegedly cheated on his mother), while his mother is a saint (she never
>cheated on John?). A pretty skewed view of things, IMO.
>
Most emotional decisions are. Two things to remember here are that Yoko is
the one who raised him, so it's natural that he'd feel a greater loyalty to
her, and the dirt in her life isn't as well known as that in John's life
simply because not as many people are interested. Also, he's seen his
mother attacked all his life. Why wouldn't he go to the other extreme in
supporting her?
You seem to have heard a garbled version of his comments. The "flawed human
being" part doesn't refer to not watching commercials or allowing him to
have sugar, those were more on the order of fond reminisences. The flawed
part was before he was born, and it seems based on stories that are common
knowledge.