Getting a good Ringo drum sound / ala Revolver era
Ryan Patrick Bassler
tried in vain since to recreate it, but I was wondering if
some folks in the know here could try to elaborate how
Saint George of Martin got Ringo's drums to sound so
kick ass. I'm especially talking '66 and up....basically,
what was the typical mic placement, mic choice, room
setup, etc. I've got fairly good knowledge of the whole thing,
but wanted to get insights from others more in the know.
And sorry if folks get tired of seeing this thread...I know
it existed once before, but is better than, say, a Laurence
Juber thread. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks in advance.
--
Ryan Bassler ---------> bas...@students.uiuc.edu
LMP HOME PAGE - - - - -> www.prairienet.org/~bassler
LMP's debut CD - AUNT CANADA - due in July!!!
pat d. frey
>
> Yes, I know this is the $64 dollar question, and folks have
> tried in vain since to recreate it, but I was wondering if
> some folks in the know here could try to elaborate how
> Saint George of Martin got Ringo's drums to sound so
> kick ass. I'm especially talking '66 and up....basically,
> what was the typical mic placement, mic choice, room
> setup, etc. I've got fairly good knowledge of the whole thing,
> but wanted to get insights from others more in the know.
> And sorry if folks get tired of seeing this thread...I know
> it existed once before, but is better than, say, a Laurence
> Juber thread. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks in advance.
anything! It would probably help to use coated heads (pinstripes, etc.
didn't exist back then) since most photos you see of Ringo's kit show
him with white coated heads.
Photos (and some diagrams in the Lewisohn's "complete recordings.." show
one overhead mic and one low & in front of the kick drum (also no hole
in the kick drum). We have tried to do some of this style of recording,
too, and room sound is VERY important, since it becomes 'part of the
kit'. Abbey Road was very large, so quick reflections & slapbacks are
mostly eliminated.
Compression is also of great importance. Play with compression settings
to bring everything in line (if you listen to the cymbal wash on early
recordings, it obvious that they compressed the daylights out of the
overhead!)
It helps to have a good drummer, too!!!!
Pat (who owns a 1960's vintage ludwig kit)
Terry Burrows
next month in the UK by Carlton Books - dunno who's doing it in the US,
probably MBS). While the thrust of our conversation was not so much on
recording, when we did touch on such things I think his views were pretty
clear that VALVE compression and other equipment was a crucial factor. That
said, I was surprised to the degree to which he clearly saw digital
technology as being superior. That said, the guy I was with was
interviewing him for a Japanese studio mag and George WAS doing a heavy
sale job on his newly renovated fully digital blah blah blah Air studios -
which is an absolute palace!
If you are UK-based you could do alot worse than contact TOERAG studios in
London. They specialize in recording on vintage equipment - some of it
originating from Abbey Road. I've recorded there once, and although as MIDI
child I find it pretty much impossible to operate in the place, I know
quite a few bands who have travelled from foreign parts to record there.
The guy who runs it is called Liam - I bet he'd have a view on this sort of
thing.
Sorry if this all a bit too obvious - I'm new to this sort of thing!
Terry Burrows
pat d. frey
> If you are UK-based you could do alot worse than contact TOERAG studios in
> London. They specialize in recording on vintage equipment - some of it
> originating from Abbey Road. I've recorded there once, and although as MIDI
> child I find it pretty much impossible to operate in the place, I know
> quite a few bands who have travelled from foreign parts to record there.
> The guy who runs it is called Liam - I bet he'd have a view on this sort of
> thing.
>
> Sorry if this all a bit too obvious - I'm new to this sort of thing!
>
> Terry Burrows
And if you're in the NYC metro area, I can recommend Waterfront Studio
in Hoboken, NJ. Most studio have some old gear, but these guys are
absolute NUTs about getting authentic sounds (don't let the Lenny
Kravitz association scare you off). Henry Hirsch & Dave Dominich
are the owners. They're pretty reasonable, too.
But I'd second the motion to get a GOOD tube compressor (Anthony
DeMaria, Demeter, etc.)
PDJ (of graphic sound studio in RINGOES nj - unfortunately NOT overidden
with vintage tube gear :-)
Jeff Mills
>
> Yes, I know this is the $64 dollar question, and folks have
> tried in vain since to recreate it, but I was wondering if
> some folks in the know here could try to elaborate how
> Saint George of Martin got Ringo's drums to sound so
> kick ass. I'm especially talking '66 and up....basically,
> what was the typical mic placement, mic choice, room
> setup, etc. I've got fairly good knowledge of the whole thing,
> but wanted to get insights from others more in the know.
> And sorry if folks get tired of seeing this thread...I know
> it existed once before, but is better than, say, a Laurence
> Juber thread. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ryan Bassler ---------> bas...@students.uiuc.edu
> LMP HOME PAGE - - - - -> www.prairienet.org/~bassler
>
> LMP's debut CD - AUNT CANADA - due in July!!!
Geoff Emerick, Beatles engineer extraordinaire, stuffed a sweater that one of
the Beatles used to wear inside Ringo's bass drum and he also miked the drums pretty
close on "Revolver."
I think that that definitely had an impact but also Ringo progressed as a
drummer. Whereas in the beginning he basically did "thump thump bang thump" about 1964
65, he started to do more fills and by the time "Abbey Road" came out, Ringo for me
earned himself a reputation as one of the best rock drummers.
Danny Caccavo
combined with taking the front head off the bass drum , miking it more
closely, and deadening the inside of it (very common nowadays, but not
then) had a lot to do with the killer drum sound on "Revolver". It's
interesting that Geoff Emerick backed off of that great sound for
"Pepper". -DC
John McGann
> Juber thread. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks in advance.
Mebbe I missed something.. Dis not LJ. He plays an unbelievable version
of "Martha My Dear" on solo guitar (I heard a live tape of it..don't know
if it is commercially available).
John McGann (jmc...@world.std.com)
Transcription/technique page at http://world.std.com/~jmcgann
It's a short spin around the block...
DynamicMic
It sounds to me like the heavy compression on the overheads is keyed by
the kick drum mic. You hear the cymbals duck when the kick hits, but not
the snare. You can hear this pretty clearly on the fade of "Come
Together." There may be additional compression on the kit, but this is key
to the killer "blooming" cymbal sound.
DM
Danny Caccavo
(DynamicMic) wrote:
That's because the drums went to one track, and the compressor was on the
whole kit, not just the overheads. They didn't do any "keying". And the
snare definitely does get compressed - but a snare doesn't have the energy
to kick the limiter the same way (a Fairchild, I believe). -DC
DynamicMic
> They didn't do any "keying".
Oh well, it *seemed* plausible....
DM
OCEAN DIG
and 67s. And T-shirts and rags were regularly placed over the heads....
OCEAN DIG.@aol.com
(T Hartman)
Danny Caccavo
DIG) wrote:
I think the t-shirt thing came later, on some of the White album, but
expecially "Let it Be" and "Abbey Road"... the toms and snare are pretty
open and live before that -DC
OCEAN DIG
"I think the t-shirt thing came later, on some of the White album, but
expecially "Let it Be" and "Abbey Road"... "
Right. Now T-Shirts on "
She Said, She Said" !
OCEAN DIG.@aol.com
(T Hartman)
Rich Karfilis
In a previous article, bas...@students.uiuc.edu (Ryan Patrick Bassler) says:
>ixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bassler
>From: bas...@students.uiuc.edu (Ryan Patrick Bassler)
>Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
>Subject: Getting a good Ringo drum sound / ala Revolver era
>Date: 27 Jun 1996 13:18:00 GMT
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Lines: 18
>Message-ID: <4qu1m8$e...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
>Keywords: drums
>
>Yes, I know this is the $64 dollar question, and folks have
>tried in vain since to recreate it, but I was wondering if
>some folks in the know here could try to elaborate how
>Saint George of Martin got Ringo's drums to sound so
>kick ass. I'm especially talking '66 and up....basically,
>what was the typical mic placement, mic choice, room
>setup, etc. I've got fairly good knowledge of the whole thing,
>but wanted to get insights from others more in the know.
>And sorry if folks get tired of seeing this thread...I know
>it existed once before, but is better than, say, a Laurence
>Juber thread. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks in advance.
>
>
>--
>Ryan Bassler ---------> bas...@students.uiuc.edu
>LMP HOME PAGE - - - - -> www.prairienet.org/~bassler
>
> LMP's debut CD - AUNT CANADA - due in July!!!
>
A friend in the radio business (which therein may answer questions about
the fact's reliability) once told me that Ringo would at times place wet
towels on some of his drums (snare?) to get that really trebley slap that
is one of his distinguishing sounds. Sexy Sadie is one track where I
swear I can hear a faint splashing sound around the edge of Ringo's hits.
However, In all my reading of Beatles lore in books and on rmb, I have
never seen this fact repeated, so I'm assuming that it's likely not true.
(This same friend once told me that the creak near the end of the Day In
The Life fadeout was in fact the sound of a live microphone stand being
wheeled away from the pianos. I recently realized that it would be absurd
to move the mike away from the pianos, ostensibly to enhance the fadeout
sound, when in fact Lewisohn reported that the engineers were actually
turning the recording levels up gradually during the fade. But it was an
interesting myth for me to believe in for the past 25 years or so).
In any case, before I bury the wet towels theory about Ringo's drumming,
I would like to know from drummers whether they have heard of this
practice, and, what of it, eh? Wouldn't it wreck the skins?
Rock on, ANYBODY
Shabba Rich
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shabba Rich sez that some of John's dreams about humanity will come
true within the first ten years of the next century. If only we can
all hang on that long. Don't forget to love one another on the way.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Caccavo
In article <Du7IyD.KA5...@torfree.net>,
at...@freenet.toronto.on.ca (Rich Karfilis) wrote:
> A friend in the radio business (which therein may answer questions about
> the fact's reliability) once told me that Ringo would at times place wet
> towels on some of his drums (snare?) to get that really trebley slap that
> is one of his distinguishing sounds. Sexy Sadie is one track where I
> swear I can hear a faint splashing sound around the edge of Ringo's hits.
>
> However, In all my reading of Beatles lore in books and on rmb, I have
> never seen this fact repeated, so I'm assuming that it's likely not true.
> (This same friend once told me that the creak near the end of the Day In
> The Life fadeout was in fact the sound of a live microphone stand being
> wheeled away from the pianos. I recently realized that it would be absurd
> to move the mike away from the pianos, ostensibly to enhance the fadeout
> sound, when in fact Lewisohn reported that the engineers were actually
> turning the recording levels up gradually during the fade. But it was an
> interesting myth for me to believe in for the past 25 years or so).
>
> In any case, before I bury the wet towels theory about Ringo's drumming,
> practice, and, what of it, eh? Wouldn't it wreck the skins?
>
>
> Rock on, ANYBODY
>
>
> Shabba Rich
>
The towel thing (not wet) was generally used later, like on parts of the
white album and Let it be and Abbey Road. In fact, look closely at Let it
be footage, and you can see them (T-shirts work better - that's proably
what they used) Revolver was the first album to use LOTS of compression
on the drums, and they also moved the bass drum mike closer, and took off
the front skin for the first time. Interestingly enough, they backed off
on the compression for Pepper (and the bass drum). Too bad....
Believe me, moving the microphones during the DITL fade out would have
been horrible. Beleive me, that was not done. But you know
that....<g>-DC