Wife beating in "Its getting better"?
John Stone
something like "I beat her and kept her away from the things that she
loved" but then he says "Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene and
I'm doing the best that I can".
Maybe the Beatles were a little ahead of their time in that they
acknowledged that wife beating was bad.
NustinXXI
Asked about the song years later, John admitted it referred to his aggressive
tendencies, "I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has
learned not to be violent and regrets his violence."
JMS
beatl...@webtv.net
Yes! And that part of the song is so powerful! That was one of John's
earliest examples of his later writing style of dealing honestly and
openly with his own personal truths in his lyrics no matter how painful
they are. He didn't care what other people thought about his life and
how he dealt with it, that's for sure. To put all that in a pop song in
'67 on a high profile album like Pepper was really a bold display of
total honesty. Not many people can write that honestly about their own
skeletons even today.
I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her
And kept her apart from
the things that she loved.
Man I was mean,
but I'm changing my scene
And I'm doing the best that I can.
And these days? This song has become a snazzy little advertising jingle
for selling friggin' products for major corporations.
ohbutilikeitithinkitsjustfabitsjustsospecial
Jay
- - - - - - - - -
Looking for Beatle Interviews, Photos, Animations, and more? Check out
THE BEATLES ULTIMATE EXPERIENCE website!! The entire story in The
Beatles own words.
http://www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1
BelleFlyer
>earliest examples of his later writing style of dealing honestly and
>openly with his own personal truths in his lyrics no matter how painful
>they are. He didn't care what other people thought about his life and
>how he dealt with it, that's for sure.
A truly admirable man. I can't imagine how anyone could defend his behavior.
beatl...@webtv.net
aggressive tendencies, "I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a
violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence."
JMS
Wanted to repost the Lennon quote one more time for Belle. It is a great
quote and worth double-checking. It seems crystal clear to me. The last
time I met a so-called perfect person was in a glass house. If you think
anyone defends wife-beating... including JWL... you are a mental pigmy.
Mistakes made when you are a young man can only be corrected by dealing
with them honestly as you grow up. I think Its amazingly brave and
trusting to do your personal therapy in the middle of the Sgt Pepper
album. Many think that braveness makes some of the most real and honest
music ever produced. Maybe you prefer Herman's Hermits.
Timothy L Jones
"Northerners" which is sort of the equivalent of being American
Southerners as far as the attitudes towards women are in that region.
In Getting Better John specifically quotes his own songbook:
"Me used to be angry young man
"Me hiding my head in the sand
"You gave me The Word
"I finally heard
"I'm doing the best that I can."
The 'head in the sand' line is right out of Run For Your Life (and The
Word is the first appearance of universal love in Beatles song.)
Apparently, in Britain, at a certain moment in the 60's they were being
compared unfavorably to the Rolling Stones in the rock press. They were
the provincial Beatles unlike the urban Stones. They were the fat
Beatles unlike the drug thin Stones. They were writing songs uncritical
of women unlike the "Under My Thumb" Stones. So they had to prove they
could do it and songs like Think For Yourself and Another Girl and
RFYL-songs that threatened women- started to appear.
But then came mind expansion and hippy culture and the Beatles
transcended that post-adolescent pose. They took pains, in Getting
Better, to specifically repudiate that phase in their career. Later John
became an out and out feminist and put his wife in his act, as did Paul.
I don't see any female artists doing that.
So you have to give them credit for getting past their origins. They
evolved and gave us, in song, a set of vivid snapshots of their journey.
I always thought Run For Your Life crossed into camp myself. It mocks
that chauvinist attitude in a way not unlike Happiness is a Warm Gun
mocks THAT chauvinist attitude. It's a hoot and good rock n roll. But
Getting Better is John's condemnation of that whole mind-set.
Timothy J
Chris Brown
admiring John for NOT defending this behavior.
beatl...@webtv.net
was admiring John for NOT defending this behavior.
LOL Yes, perhaps. The post's intentions sound clear as a Belle to me
though. ;^)
Gallard
<beatl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14499-37...@newsd-111.bryant.webtv.net...
> From A Hard Day's Write by Steve Turner: Asked about the song years
> later, John admitted it referred to his aggressive tendencies, "I
> sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned
> not to be violent and regrets his violence."
> JMS
>
> Yes! And that part of the song is so powerful! That was one of John's
> earliest examples of his later writing style of dealing honestly and
> openly with his own personal truths in his lyrics no matter how painful
> they are. He didn't care what other people thought about his life and
> '67 on a high profile album like Pepper was really a bold display of
> total honesty. Not many people can write that honestly about their own
> skeletons even today.
But nobody knew he was being honest about his own life back then.
We all just thought it was a good song. I dont think we tended to try
to analyze everything to death like people do now days.
chocolate jesus
BelleFlyer <belle...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990720181108...@ng-cf1.aol.com...
> >That was one of John's
> >earliest examples of his later writing style of dealing honestly and
> >openly with his own personal truths in his lyrics no matter how painful
> >they are. He didn't care what other people thought about his life and
> >how he dealt with it, that's for sure.
>
behavior.
he needs no one to defend him or his behaviour.
and i'm sure you have never done anything bad in your life either
belle....:)
chocolate jesus .
Chris Brown <chris.brown@~removeme~zdnetmail.com> wrote in message
news:7n36ms$qhh$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> I think some people may have misinterpreted Belle's post. Perhaps Belle
was
> admiring John for NOT defending this behavior.
uhhh, don't think so...:)
chocolate jesus
John Stone <sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:3794C3...@pilot.msu.edu...
> Isn't there a reference to wife beating in "Its getting better",
> something like "I beat her and kept her away from the things that she
> loved" but then he says "Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene and
> I'm doing the best that I can".
>
> acknowledged that wife beating was bad.
it is?
BelleFlyer
>behavior.
>
>
>
>and i'm sure you have never done anything bad in your life either
>belle....:)
>
>
>
>
>
Not on that level.
BelleFlyer
Beatles.
Deirdre
On 21 Jul 1999, BelleFlyer wrote:
> Let me clarify my original post. Some things are indefensible, even for former
> Beatles.
>
Maybe, but I'm of the opinion that no one need defend him/herself to
anyone. At the end of the day it's yourself that you have to live with.
Dee
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...First Thing I Seen When I Saw It Land,
Cat Jumped Out And Started A Band!
Couldn't Understand A Single Thing They Said,
It was a cRaZy Beat, It Just Stopped Me Dead...
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~powersd
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BelleFlyer
animal.
Nowhere Man
>
> I never physically or mentally or emotionally abused another human being or
> animal.
How do you know?
___________________________
"How could she say to me
Love will find a way
Gather round all you clowns
Let me hear you say"
___________________________
Amaranth56
>> human being or animal.
>
>How do you know?
How true! I'm guessing what Belle meant is that she hasn't abused any living
being with the intention of doing so. But we're all guilty. We step on and
fumigate bugs, eat meat (some of us), participate in enjoying animals in cages.
As for emotionally hurting people, sometimes it just can't be helped. I told
an acquaintance the gory details of a relative's divorce, and only later
realized she was going through her own painful divorce at the time. She was
too polite and kind to say anything, yet my words must've stung. A couple of
times people said horribly hurtful things me -- personal attacks -- yet denied
being abusive even after I tried to explain to them why I was upset over what
they'd said.
beatl...@webtv.net
best that I can. I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent
man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence.
Belle wrote: A truly admirable man. I can't imagine how anyone could
defend his behavior.
----
Belle,
You are right. No one respects or defends wife beating. Not even John.
And many abusers do not change and are stuck in a cycle of violence for
the rest of their lives. So this is my question, and there's really no
getting around it... Do you think it's admirable that John realized he
needed to stop... and was honest about it... and then in fact DID change
his ways... and regretted his earlier actions? Is that a quality you
might admire in someone?
Perhaps some fans were inspired to do the same because of John's lyrics
in "Getting Better." You never know... It did reach alot of listeners
world-wide for the past 32 years. Perhaps honesty from someone you
admire, that they are human too, is what it takes sometimes.
Jamie
>
> Perhaps some fans were inspired to do the same because of John's lyrics
> in "Getting Better." You never know... It did reach alot of listeners
> world-wide for the past 32 years. Perhaps honesty from someone you
> admire, that they are human too, is what it takes sometimes.
I don't know...the lyrics don't come out and explicitly say it was wrong,
or that the narrator will stop it, but is rather "doing the best that
he can."
It was a different time, so when it came out I doubt it made a ripple,
although I'm still surpised that over the years no anti-violence groups
pounced on the song.
~Jamie
beatl...@webtv.net
line.
But seriously, I think we shouldn't be too literal in Beatles song
lyrics interpretaion
- - -
THarri.
Yeah, I thought it was all Paul's song for years... with John just
adding "It cant get much worse." But it turns out the 'I beat her' verse
was John also. It's really not anyone's interpretation of the lyrics...
John admitted he wrote them and described what he meant. Here's the
"complete" quote that was excerpted earlier in case you are curious
about it--
Playboy 1980 (uneditied interview sessions)
PB: "Getting Better."
JOHN: "It is a diary form of writing. All that 'I used to be cruel to my
woman...' was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically-- any
woman. I WAS a hitter. I couldn't express myself, and I hit. I fought
men, and hit women. That is why I am always on about Peace. You see, it
is the most violent people who go for love and peace... everything's the
opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man
who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have
to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as I
youngster."
LOL... I don't know how much more public he could be thinking of. The
Sgt Pepper album and Playboy Magazine seem like staggeringly public
places for this depth of honesty. But inner-change and honesty are
certainly very cool things.
Timothy L Jones
Sarah Dylan, as one of the reasons for seeking the divorce, the actual
phrase "wife beating" was used.
There is a documented episode of his being found on the kitchen floor
wrestling with and striking his girl friend's sister in his early New
York folkie days.
Artists come with great emotional range, and you have to expect violence
and anger to be among the colors in their emotional palette. Lennon
once said, in effect, that if everybody were emotionally healthy, there
wouldn't be that much art. Twentieth century artists typically sing
their pain.
It true though, "that doesn't justify hitting a woman". However, show me
the woman who's never hit anybody. Lennon confessed his crimes. Ladies?
Timothy J
beatl...@webtv.net
;^)
chocolate jesus .
> > A truly admirable man. I can't imagine how anyone could defend his
> >behavior.
> >
> >
> >
> >and i'm sure you have never done anything bad in your life either
> >belle....:)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Not on that level.
on what "level"?
chocolate jesus .
> Let me clarify my original post. Some things are indefensible, even for
former
> Beatles.
please allow me to clarify my point.
my point is firstly that we are all human, and as such, make mistakes.
secondly, being a beatle has nothing to do with it
to carry this vision of JL as real gone woman basher is simply wrong.
you know, it's far better to admit the mistake and try to improve oneself.
unfortunately people like you, who are full of self righteousness, can
happily stand on the sideline and refuse to allow a person either a second
chance or the opportunity to prove themselves, which john did amply thru his
later years.
but obviously, you're happiest sitting on high and handing down judgments.
chocolate jesus .
> I never physically or mentally or emotionally abused another human being
or
> animal.
so you're bubble girl, right?
THarri3779
But seriously, I think we shouldn't be too literal in Beatles song lyrics
interpretaion
I mean, did John really confess to being the eggman?
Nowhere Man
>
> >> I never physically or mentally or emotionally abused another
> >> human being or animal.
> >
>
> How true! I'm guessing what Belle meant is that she hasn't abused any living
> being with the intention of doing so. But we're all guilty. We step on and
> fumigate bugs, eat meat (some of us), participate in enjoying animals in cages.
>
> As for emotionally hurting people, sometimes it just can't be helped. I told
> an acquaintance the gory details of a relative's divorce, and only later
> realized she was going through her own painful divorce at the time.
yes Diane, we all put out foor in it from time to time. I certainly
have had my share too.
> She was
> too polite and kind to say anything, yet my words must've stung.
since you look back and feel her probable pain during your chat, it
says good things about you. Much worse, if it never dawned on you.
> A couple of
> times people said horribly hurtful things me -- personal attacks -- yet denied
> being abusive even after I tried to explain to them why I was upset over what
> they'd said.
me too. I think we all must have different values. Certain things are
acceptable to some and not to others. There are some things I would
never dream of saying to someone in a million years. I always try and
imagine how I would like that said to me.
Best,
Will
Phonoplay
it is upbeat; soulful; rhythmic...not trippy or mysterious.
and as most have said: honest. yes that was john all the way
he didnt like shcool he always said (i used to get mad at my achool)
"me used to be cruel to my woman..." etc
an angry guy here.
but now its getting better. hence the upbeatness of the song. john is on a high
here...(it comes across to me that way) and he's sharing his hopefulness and
feeling the freedom of it all getting better.
maccas bass as usual in lennon songs provides the bounce and soul the song
needs to make the tune more than just a "head song" and give the song that old
"60ish" feelgood feel.
get into this one..dont dote on the possibility of wife beating. the message:
its getting better. feel it !!
chocolate jesus .
Phonoplay <phon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990722000750...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
Ken Smith
Timothy L Jones wrote:
> However, show me the woman who's never hit anybody.
How about, for example, my wife. She has never raised a hand to anyone.
She is the epitome of class, which is why I asked her to marry me.
So there goes another one of your tenuous theories.
chocolate jesus .
Ken Smith <bea...@tdo.infi.net> wrote in message
news:37969CAB...@tdo.infi.net...
>
>
> Timothy L Jones wrote:
>
> > However, show me the woman who's never hit anybody.
>
> How about, for example, my wife. She has never raised a hand to anyone.
well she turned me into a newt!
........................................i got better.
Deirdre
> It true though, "that doesn't justify hitting a woman". However, show me
> the woman who's never hit anybody. Lennon confessed his crimes. Ladies?
Yes Timothy, I'll admit that I found it necessary to hit a guy as he
steadily increased the strength of of his fingers around my neck in an
attempt to strangle me. Hitting and beating aren't the same thing, and
women are beaten worldwide far more often than most people can even
imagine.
Dee
p.s. Yes, I do feel better now that I've confessed my crime.
Jamie
>
> unfortunately people like you, who are full of self righteousness, can
> happily stand on the sideline and refuse to allow a person either a second
> chance or the opportunity to prove themselves, which john did amply thru his
> later years.
>
> but obviously, you're happiest sitting on high and handing down judgments.
There are certain things people *should* pass judgement on, whether they're
legally wrong and morally wrong, etc. John was a wife-beater, and the
only way he could truly change was to admit and recognize the bad
behavior. John, in the Playboy interview, says that it will take
years for him to deal with his behavior. Condemning him for beating
up his wife is hardly being "self-righteous." That he recognized
it was abhorrent behavior is admirable, but that doesn't negate what
he did or change the fact that it was bad.
~Jamie
Timothy L Jones
the United States after the results came back from The Blue Dress.
Apparently Bill Clinton had to wear makeup for several days to cover up
the bruises and the swelling.
Lets also keep in mind Mr. McCartney's sending up skull bashing in
Maxwell's Silver Hammer. His first victim was Joan. He crept up from
behind. Then he made sure she was dead. Funny stuff, eh? Just like Only
Nixon Could Go To China, only Paul McCartney could get away with a song
like that.
What do Mac And Hillary have in common? Irish heritage. But that's
another thread for another day.
Timothy J
beatl...@webtv.net
they're legally wrong and morally wrong, etc. John was a wife-beater,
and the only way he could truly change was to admit and recognize the
bad behavior. John, in the Playboy interview, says that it will take
years for him to deal with his behavior. Condemning him for beating up
his wife is hardly being "self-righteous." That he recognized it was
abhorrent behavior is admirable, but that doesn't negate what he did or
change the fact that it was bad.
~Jamie
Well spoken Jamie. Are you ready for a shocker? You and I are very close
to being in total agreement on this. I have no problem with passing
judgement on wife beating. And certainly John was far too complex an
individulal for anyone to look at his life without a good amount of
balance, and very careful perspective.
But my question for you is this... and I think it may well be the point
where everyone is disagreeing... Do you condemn his abhorrent behavior
from earlier in his life... or do you condemn HIM as a person (as you
seem to state above)?
I think Lennon sounds genuinely sickened at his own behavior in both
"Getting Better" and the PB interview. And I'm not suggesting he be
absolved from this behavior at all. But for people to condemn HIM seems
somehow quite wrong to me when it is the "changed" behavior that they
actually mean to condemn.
It probably seems like a picky point to some, but I ask because I think
its possible we all agree on this more than we think we do.
Jamie
>
> Well spoken Jamie. Are you ready for a shocker? You and I are very close
> to being in total agreement on this. I have no problem with passing
> judgement on wife beating. And certainly John was far too complex an
> individulal for anyone to look at his life without a good amount of
> balance, and very careful perspective.
>
> But my question for you is this... and I think it may well be the point
> where everyone is disagreeing... Do you condemn his abhorrent behavior
> from earlier in his life... or do you condemn HIM as a person (as you
> seem to state above)?
Hmm, tricky question. I think John had a good heart, but I would say
that I find the part of him that did it abhorrent. It's hard to
condemn the behavior alone, cause after all, his body didn't act independently
from his mind. And since our younger selves are still a part of us,
I think the same impulses were still in John, even if they were't
acted upon. So, the part of John that did it I find abhorrent. If that
makes sense at all. :)
~Jamie
Deirdre
about the Red Hot lyrics this morning. I have a little more information
for you, mail me if you're interested :)
Dee
...your gal aint doodley squat!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Many Tears I was Searching, So Many Tears I was Wasting ...oh, ooh
Robert Bales
"The Beatles are from what's the New Jersey of Great Britain. They're
"Northerners" which is sort of the equivalent of being American
Southerners as far as the attitudes towards women are in that region."
While I found most of this post eloquent and "on the money," I must take
exception to the stereotyping of Southerners. Having lived all but four
of my fourty six years in the South (I lived in Los Angeles from '95
till a few months ago), I can say with some authority that
"wife-beating" is not, and in my lifetime has not, been condoned in this
"region" or practised more than in other regions of this country. If
one bases one's opinions of the South on the Jerry Springer show or
Southern culture as depicted in sensationalistic Hollywood films, so be
it. That bespeaks ignorance on the part of the perceiver more than on
much maligned Southerners. One should write of what one knows, not what
one supposes or gullibly accepts from popular media.
Bob, a diehard "Beatlesfreak" in Georgia, who sometimes gets his nose
out of joint when confronted with unwarranted prejudice and stereotyping
Jamie
>
> > There are certain things people *should* pass judgement on, whether
> they're
> > legally wrong and morally wrong, etc.
>
Well, as I just said, the law says it's wrong. As do most societies.
> >John was a wife-beater,
>
> so john was simply a full time wife beater.
> that's his title is it?
> "hi, i'm john lennon, wife beater."
No, but it was something he did and admitted to, so it's part of his
identity, whether you like it or not. Nowhere did I say it was his
only identity.
> >and the only way he could truly change was to admit and recognize the bad
> > behavior.
>
> which he did.
> why hold him up to vilification then if he had truly changed, which, going
> by your definition, he did?
I didn't say he didn't.
> > John, in the Playboy interview, says that it will take
> > years for him to deal with his behavior.
>
> but you guys will never let up with the self righteousness, because it must
> make you feel better, being able to condemn and judge another human being
> for being just that, a human being.
I don't find domestic violence "just being a human being."
> i am happy for you guys that your lives haven't been touched by the
> failings of flawed humans( read: reality) to the extent that, as one of you
> puts it, you have never, ever, done anything bad to anyone, at any time.....
Pardon me, but you don't know me, nor anyone else in this thread, I
would guess.
> >Condemning him for beating up his wife is hardly being "self-righteous."
>
> i must disagree.
>
> but then again, i believe that we are all made more human and more alive by
> being involved in the full thrust of human existance, not simply in a
> cloistered backwater that we might be able to build for ourselves in oreder
> to escape the sometimes ugly face of human behaviour.
Again, how is committing domestic violence just another trait
of being human?
> in other words, that sort of attitude is fine if you live in a "bubble", but
> if you are living your life among the rabble of everyday life, then you take
> those incidents for what they are and try to help peole get over them or at
> very least try to refrain from making sweeping judgemental appraisals of a
> person's worth based on a small aspect of their lives.
Now you're the one being judgemental. You assume that absolutely no
one here in this thread has had any experience with domestic violence.
Domestic violence is not a "small aspect" in the lives of anyone who
has experienced it.
> >That he recognized
> > it was abhorrent behavior is admirable, but that doesn't negate what
> > he did or change the fact that it was bad.
>
> i never argued that beating one's wife is a good thing.
> all i sought to point out is that categorising a person is bad enough, but
> pinning your characterisation of that person on asingle act or facet of
> their personality is bullshit.
>
> and yes, unfortunately, it smacks of self righteousness. especially your
> choice of the word "condemning".
Yes, I'm proud to say that I condemn domestic violence. I also condemn
murder, rape, and torturing animals. If that's your defintion of
"self-righteous," then I suggest that you're the one who lives in
a "bubble."
~Jamie
chocolate jesus .
Jamie <ang...@ivnet.com> wrote in message news:37973E...@ivnet.com...
> chocolate jesus . wrote:
> >
> > unfortunately people like you, who are full of self righteousness, can
> > happily stand on the sideline and refuse to allow a person either a
second
> > chance or the opportunity to prove themselves, which john did amply thru
his
> > later years.
> >
> > but obviously, you're happiest sitting on high and handing down
judgments.
>
they're
> legally wrong and morally wrong, etc.
says who? you decided that did you?
>John was a wife-beater,
so john was simply a full time wife beater.
that's his title is it?
"hi, i'm john lennon, wife beater."
>and the only way he could truly change was to admit and recognize the bad
> behavior.
which he did.
why hold him up to vilification then if he had truly changed, which, going
by your definition, he did?
> John, in the Playboy interview, says that it will take
> years for him to deal with his behavior.
but you guys will never let up with the self righteousness, because it must
make you feel better, being able to condemn and judge another human being
for being just that, a human being.
i am happy for you guys that your lives haven't been touched by the
failings of flawed humans( read: reality) to the extent that, as one of you
puts it, you have never, ever, done anything bad to anyone, at any time.....
>Condemning him for beating up his wife is hardly being "self-righteous."
i must disagree.
but then again, i believe that we are all made more human and more alive by
being involved in the full thrust of human existance, not simply in a
cloistered backwater that we might be able to build for ourselves in oreder
to escape the sometimes ugly face of human behaviour.
in other words, that sort of attitude is fine if you live in a "bubble", but
if you are living your life among the rabble of everyday life, then you take
those incidents for what they are and try to help peole get over them or at
very least try to refrain from making sweeping judgemental appraisals of a
person's worth based on a small aspect of their lives.
we are all human.
and anyone who states they are "perfect", as belle did, in any regard, is
clearly not being realistic.
>That he recognized
> it was abhorrent behavior is admirable, but that doesn't negate what
> he did or change the fact that it was bad.
i never argued that beating one's wife is a good thing.
all i sought to point out is that categorising a person is bad enough, but
pinning your characterisation of that person on asingle act or facet of
their personality is bullshit.
and yes, unfortunately, it smacks of self righteousness. especially your
choice of the word "condemning".
but as you said that in recognising it and amitting it, he was truly
changed.
at least john had the smarts to not only realise, but openly admit a failing
in his character.
and wowsers love to jump up and down about how terible a person he was, and
that this distastful episode is far more important than any other facet of
this guys life.
that, to me, is just bullshit.
Nowhere Man
>
> But my question for you is this... and I think it may well be the point
> where everyone is disagreeing... Do you condemn his abhorrent behavior
> seem to state above)?
>
> I think Lennon sounds genuinely sickened at his own behavior in both
> "Getting Better" and the PB interview. And I'm not suggesting he be
> absolved from this behavior at all. But for people to condemn HIM seems
> somehow quite wrong to me when it is the "changed" behavior that they
> actually mean to condemn.
>
Exactly.....well said.
Much better than I could have expressed it. :0)
Nowhere Man
> Having lived all but four
> of my fourty six years in the South (I lived in Los Angeles from '95
> till a few months ago), I can say with some authority that
> "wife-beating" is not, and in my lifetime has not, been condoned in this
> "region" or practised more than in other regions of this country. If
> one bases one's opinions of the South on the Jerry Springer show or
> Southern culture as depicted in sensationalistic Hollywood films, so be
> it.
ROFL
bongo
> > he's sharing his hopefulness and feeling the freedom of it all
> > getting better.
> um, dig the analysis mate, but from memory, isn't this a paul song?
The chorus definitely is, and all that bouncy optimism is in the chorus.
I think the verses were a joint effort.
cheers,
--bongo
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james andrews
geoff
Re the post topic, according to songfacts.com :
"This song was a true collaborative effort for Lennon and McCartney,
with Lennon adding that legendary part about being bad to his woman. He
later admitted to being a "hitter" when it came to women. He said "I was
Zod
> Isn't there a reference to wife beating in "Its getting better",
> something like "I beat her and kept her away from the things that she
> loved" but then he says "Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene and
> I'm doing the best that I can".
> Maybe the Beatles were a little ahead of their time in that they
> acknowledged that wife beating was bad.
The good old days when women knew their place and if they stepped out of line, a good smack fixed that.
Will Dockery
RJKe...@yahoo.com
> From A Hard Day's Write by Steve Turner:
> Asked about the song years later, John admitted it referred to his aggressive
> tendencies, "I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has
> learned not to be violent and regrets his violence."
> JMS
I remember Yoko saying that when John got angry he would hit a pillow. I'm not sure I believe it.
RJKe...@yahoo.com
> >That was one of John's
> >earliest examples of his later writing style of dealing honestly and
> >openly with his own personal truths in his lyrics no matter how painful
> >they are. He didn't care what other people thought about his life and
> >how he dealt with it, that's for sure.
> A truly admirable man. I can't imagine how anyone could defend his behavior.
He got pretty worked up over people who thought Yoko was manipulating him.
Zod
Will Dockery
Forgery and identity theft ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RJKe...@yahoo.com
> Isn't there a reference to wife beating in "Its getting better",
> something like "I beat her and kept her away from the things that she
> loved" but then he says "Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene and
> I'm doing the best that I can".
> Maybe the Beatles were a little ahead of their time in that they
> acknowledged that wife beating was bad.
Will Dockery
Curtis Eagal
The Sgt Pepper project was not focused on introspective personal self-exploration, but was a united presentation as a patchwork-quilt of Faith disguised as Fairy Tales.
The first misconception was that Jimmy Nichol said the title as his catchphrase: Nichol replaced Starr (suffering tonsillitis) for part of a world tour - so a frequent question for him was to report on Ringo's health status, thus his repeatedly promising, "HE'S getting better." This phrasing got transmuted into a summary lyric for Jesus being a Faith Healer, who could make 'Anything Get Better.'
The vocal repetitions of 'Better, Better, Better' have been compared to the verbalizations of the White Queen in Through The Looking Glass as she transforms into a bleating sheep. Yet the way that sequence is articulated has an aural invocation for the Pinocchio story:
'Whittled -'...
'By Ge-'
'PET-to!'
The drone on an Indian instrument that intrudes at one point implies the extending
'NOSE' -
And this is followed by a rhythmic passage suggesting,
'Grew When -
He'd Lie'
The major framework is the Christian story separated into identifiable chunks; the ancillary tangents being potentially formatted appearing in the studio albums emerges with the Zodiac crossover in Rubber Soul (which was a rumor from the 'Seventies, when the full British album was not the official US release).