Most underrated rock bands of 60s and 70s (with possible reasons) ...
Raja, The Great
These artists do not have many albums which are highly rated by
critics in general... the fans of the sub-genre they belong in also do
not rate them that high (they are usually in second tier).
1. Moody Blues - Not considered as a bad band, but not considered a
great band either. True, they never wrote an album which was
consistent from end to end. But all their albums from Days Of Future
Passed to Seventh Sojourn have at least 2-3 great memorable songs.
They were the king of melodies. I like their albums Days of Future
Passed, In Search Of The Lost Chord, On The Threshold Of A Dream, To
Our Children's Children's Children very much. I would not call any of
them as masterpieces though.
Possible Reason - They never fit into any rock sub genre. They could
considered as a third tier psychedelic band and a second tier prog
band. But honestly they were neither. They were a weird mix of both
missed with symphonic rock tendencies. And they were too lush to be
considered even rock! They have their own cult, but that cult is not a
sub genre cult. VDGG have their own cult, but it part of progressive
rock cult and they are considered on of premier prog bands. But Moody
Blues somehow slipped under the cracks.
2. Pink Floyd (before The Dark Side Of The Moon) - Okay, Piper has
gone on to be considered as one of the greatest pyschedelic records of
all time and Meddle has some respect. But what about the albums after
that and before Meddle? No one seems to talk about A Saucerful Of
Secrets, More, Ummagumma, Atom Heart Mother and Obscured by Clouds.
Pink Floyd were at their most experimental in those albums and
frequently in avant-garde mode.
Possible Reason - Pink Floyd at their most experimental were really
experimental and quite different to what they later become of. The
band themselves does not promote the ASOS to AHM and OBC period at
all. Most Pink Floyd "fans" do not even seem to know the period before
The Dark Side very well. Also the period starting Dark Side has been
commercially very successful and the ones before that has been a
commercial flop (even Piper) relatively. I am kind of shocked Gilmour
and Waters do not seem to promote their early era at all. Waters does
all this Dark Side and The Wall tour (and he does play songs from
WYWH, Animals and The Final Cut) but completely ignores the early era.
Gilmour does 1 or 2 Syd songs once in a while, but has never given
full fledged attention to the earlier era.
3. The Troggs - These guys have several great songs. And they are
considered as garage rock icons from the UK. But their albums continue
to be underrated and overall as artists they do not feature on any
lists.
Possible Reason - Their style of raw rock n roll songs was in sharp
contrast to the psychedelic leanings of the British and American bands
starting 1966. Their debut album was released in 1966. It was too rock
n roll for that year, perhaps?
4. Fleetwood Mac (early) - Peter Green era was quite awesome. They
made several great songs, though they did not really have a consistent
album
Reason - The Nicks era was quite polished and hardly had any blues
influences. The Peter Green era was pure blues rock. Not a lot of
people even know that Black Magic Woman is not a Santana song, but a
Fleetwood Mac song
5. Canned Heat - Great authentic blues rock (unlike the blasphemous
likes of Led Zeppelin). So many great songs, but just like early
Fleetwood Mac, never wrote a consistent album.
Possible Reason - Too authentic perhaps? They never seem to get out of
blues rock.
6. Free - Great blues based hard rock. Many great songs. And their
albums are critically acclaimed but they are still not considered
among the greatest rock bands.
Possible Reason - Commercially not that successful. And probably not
as edgy as Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath. And also didn't last long
enough to make a huge impact.
7. The Zombies - Wrote the best melodies of the 60s really (even
better than The Beatles).
Possible Reason - They were still doing the harmonic melodies in the
late 60s. The likes of Beatles had moved on to more experimental
territory. Their style became outdated during the late 60s.
8. Thin Lizzy - Some people consider them to the best hard rock band
of the late 70s... but it is only some of them. Their live album Live
And Dangerous is considered on of the best live albums of all time.
But they don't seem to get the attention other hard rock and heavy
metal bands of the 70s get.
Possible Reason - Irish? Neither British nor American. And they never
commercially broke through in the US.
9. UFO - These days only known for their live album - Strangers in The
Night. Another hard rock that has slipped below the radar.
Possible Reason - Lack of commercial success as compared to the likes
of Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest and AC/DC who were ruling the hard rock
world in the mid to late 70s.
10. Hawkwind - Decent amount of respect in the prog rock community,
but still not considered premier prog or premier rock band.
Like UFO and Thin Lizzy, did make one of the greatest live albums of
all time in Space Ritual.
Possible Reason - Never broke through in the US. At times too
electronic.
Honorable Mentions
----------------------------
Status Quo (no success in the US)
Wishbone Ash (no success)
Humble Pie (no success)
Uriah Heep (respect among prog metal fans, but not as much as say
Rush)
Whitesnake (no one knows they were a blues based hard rock band in the
70s)
Slade (too glam to be taken seriously?)
Rainbow (too nerdy for a hard rock band?)
who?
You are still comparing bands to each other which
gives posters the idea that you are a troll.
Raja, The Great
? Where in this post am I comparing bands?
Lesbian Bondage Fiasco
Alice Bowie
> > 5. Canned Heat - Great authentic blues rock (unlike the blasphemous
> > likes of Led Zeppelin). So many great songs, but just like early
> > Fleetwood Mac, never wrote a consistent album.
>
> > Possible Reason - Too authentic perhaps? They never seem to get out of
> > blues rock.
>
When I first heard 'On The Road Again', I thought it was Kermit the
Frog. I was pretty young.
JohnB
None of these is really under-rated. They all had success to an extent
and some of them were very highly thought of. There are no surprises
on your list - again.
If you want under-rated, how about these:
Stackridge
Hudson Ford
Comus
Forest
Mellow Candle
String Driven Thing
Hister
Roger Waters has performed Set the controls for the heart of the
S(u)on from ASOS many times over the last few decades. The Doubledildo
Bell tour included performances of Astronomy Dominatrix. I could name
more songs performed in the 80's 90's and 00's in tribute of their
experimental years but I choose to not do
Raja, The Great
They are not on the regular setlist. Waters never performs Syd's
songs.
billy
You are putting Pink Floyd in a list of underrated bands and you
wonder why you are considered a troll? Please go away again.
Raja, The Great
>
> - Show quoted text -
Which part of "Pink Floyd before Dark Side Of The Moon", you didnt
get? You realize DSOTM was Floyd's 8th album?
billy
!!!!!!!!!!! :))))
Mike Smith
> This is MY list...
> These artists do not have many albums which are highly rated by
> critics in general... the fans of the sub-genre they belong in also do
> not rate them that high (they are usually in second tier).
>
> 1. Moody Blues - Not considered as a bad band, but not considered a
> great band either. True, they never wrote an album which was
> consistent from end to end. But all their albums from Days Of Future
> Passed to Seventh Sojourn have at least 2-3 great memorable songs.
> They were the king of melodies. I like their albums Days of Future
> Passed, In Search Of The Lost Chord, On The Threshold Of A Dream, To
> Our Children's Children's Children very much.
>
Well, then, how are they "underrated", you nob? You understand what the
term means, dontcha?
--
Mike Smith
Raja, The Great
I have a very high definition of masterpieces. Most highly rated bands
rated above Moody Blues like Eagles, Aerosmith, Police, Van Halen, U2
never made any masterpiece of any kind. But Moody Blues are rated way
too low for all the great songs they made.
Raja, The Great
> Throwing out Raja's dumb "rock band" condition, some favorite 60s/70s
> acts of mine which I'd consider quite underrated. I could toil to prune
> the list a little more but, ehh, whatever.
>
> I wouldn't ever claim for my list to be anything like "definitive,"
> because there undoubtedly are a pile of reggae/world/funk/soul acts who
> deserve mention and just aren't on my radar.
>
> proggy:
> Art Bears
> Cluster
> Faust
> Gong
> Harmonia
> Hatfield & the North
> Henry Cow
> This Heat
> Robert Wyatt
> Phil Manzanera/801
>
> poppy:
> Badfinger
> Emitt Rhodes/The Merry-Go-Round
> The Raspberries
> Sagittarius
> Sneakers
> The Beau Brummels
> The Easybeats
> The Left Banke
>
> folky:
> Judee Sill
> Gene Clark/Dillard & Clark
> Phil Ochs
> The Incredible String Band
> Tim Buckley
>
> other-y:
> Yoko Ono
> Thunderclap Newman
> John Cale
> Kaleidoscope
> Ken Nordine
> Penguin Cafe Orchestra
> Moby Grape
> Nico
> Pere Ubu
> Richard Hell & the Voidoids
> Roy Wood/Wizzard/The Move
> Silver Apples
> The Bonzo Dog Band
> The Fugs
> The Misunderstood
> The Music Machine
> The Pretty Things
To be really considered as underrated shouldn't you have some amount
of commercial success? You could otherwise pick a band playing in a
bar at Houston and call them underrated as well.
Raja, The Great
> Throwing out Raja's dumb "rock band" condition, some favorite 60s/70s
> acts of mine which I'd consider quite underrated. I could toil to prune
> the list a little more but, ehh, whatever.
>
> I wouldn't ever claim for my list to be anything like "definitive,"
> because there undoubtedly are a pile of reggae/world/funk/soul acts who
> deserve mention and just aren't on my radar.
>
> proggy:
> Art Bears
> Cluster
> Faust
Faust is not underrated. They are considered one of the premier
Krautrock bands and very much respected by the critic community. Their
albums are very highly rated by fans as well (but not as much as say
Can's album) You have no clue what underrated means.
JohnB
> Throwing out Raja's dumb "rock band" condition, some favorite 60s/70s
> acts of mine which I'd consider quite underrated. I could toil to prune
> the list a little more but, ehh, whatever.
>
> I wouldn't ever claim for my list to be anything like "definitive,"
> because there undoubtedly are a pile of reggae/world/funk/soul acts who
> deserve mention and just aren't on my radar.
>
> proggy:
> Art Bears
> Cluster
> Faust
I had a Faust album way back. Even in their prime they were regarded
as "not an easy listen". I tried hard to like them but ultimately they
just weren't for me.
> Gong
Saw Gong live in, I think, 1973, Manchester Free Trade Hall. They were
very quirky but also fun. Certainly the best drum solo I've ever
witnessed - in terms of entertainment anyway. I had Camembert
Electrique but it got nicked. They were better live anyway.
> Harmonia
> Hatfield & the North
Interesting band. I've got one track n a compilation album. Bit of a
curate's egg.
> Henry Cow
Same as H&TN
> This Heat
> Robert Wyatt
Totally agree with this. Some great songs, imaginatively done. He
keeps turning up on the BBC's music documentaries (History of Prog,
etc.) and he's interesting as a character too. You could say, I enjoy
his intelligence.
> Phil Manzanera/801
Don't know enough but what I have heard is not making me search out
more, I'm afraid.
>
> poppy:
> Badfinger
Agree. It's part of the tragedy of Badfinger. The two writers of
Without You saw it become fantastically popular without them earning a
penny from it.
> Emitt Rhodes/The Merry-Go-Round
> The Raspberries
> Sagittarius
> Sneakers
> The Beau Brummels
> The Easybeats
> The Left Banke
Don't know enough about these - which somehow proves your point.
>
> folky:
> Judee Sill
There's this feeling that Judee Sill is a lost treasure who should
have been discovered like Nick Drake was. I've got one album but don't
quite 'get' her.
> Gene Clark/Dillard & Clark
> Phil Ochs
Some great songs, just not keen on his performance style.
> The Incredible String Band
They were too experimental for their own good. You never knew what was
coming next.
> Tim Buckley
He's another of those artists that I haven't 'got'. Loads of people
have told me how great he is but I'm not getting it. His son did
produce one pretty good album though.
>
> other-y:
> Yoko Ono
> Thunderclap Newman
> John Cale
> Kaleidoscope
> Ken Nordine
> Penguin Cafe Orchestra
> Moby Grape
> Nico
> Pere Ubu
> Richard Hell & the Voidoids
> Roy Wood/Wizzard/The Move
> Silver Apples
> The Bonzo Dog Band
> The Fugs
> The Misunderstood
> The Music Machine
> The Pretty Things
Yoko? Is she there to provoke or do you really think she's under-
rated? Actually given the abuse she can get, it's hard to imagine her
being oiver-rated!
The Penguins are an interesting choice. I just don't see their music
as being designed to be popular really.
Here in the UK, Roy Wood/Wizzard/The Move were pretty well thought of
back in the late 60s/early 70s but now?
The Bonzos got plenty of recognition here though.
The rest I can't really comment on.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Faust is not underrated. They are considered one of the premier
> > Krautrock bands and very much respected by the critic community. Their
> > albums are very highly rated by fans as well (but not as much as say
> > Can's album) You have no clue what underrated means.
>
>
> First, it's your standard lame move of seeing some large list, ignoring
> 98% of it and contriving ferocious objections about the scant one or two
> names which you're half-competently able to discuss.
>
> Second, we see your usual telltale phrases such as "are considered" and
> "highly rated." Phrases which tell us that you're again making forceful
> assertions based on nothing but "lists" you have skimmed on the Web.
> Such a poseur.
>
> And then you make dopey, tautological arguments like "This band is not
> underrated because their fans love them." While disregarding how few
> fans there are.
>
> Faust is so esoteric that even I hadn't heard the group's music until
> the past few years.
LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years... Faust is
hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu! They are well
regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
Cluster etc.
>Their albums go in and out of print on sketchy
> labels, and they're highly unlikely to turn up on any of your precious
> "all-time lists" unless the lists are obviously slanted toward prog.
They feature high on the krautrock lists... krautrock is not really
highly regarded by prog fans in general. Prog fans even rate the likes
of ELP over Can.
> Faust is certainly more qualified to be labeled "underrated" than
> laughable names you suggested like Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac and the
> Moody Blues.
Faust has its own krautrock cult. So there is no way they can be
underrated. They can be either unknown to mainstream critics/fans or
underrated by krautrock fanatics. They are definitely not underrated
by krautrock fanatics. Early Floyd, and Moody Blues do not fall in a
subgenre as they were generally doing unclassifiable music and were
not part of any movement in general. So in spite of selling a lot more
than Faust did, they are underrated. You still don't have a clue what
underrated means, do you?
>
> Have you even heard a full album by anyone else on my list? Maybe
> Harmonia. Otherwise, I wonder.
Personal attacks again... how many being civil once in a while
>
> > To be really considered as underrated shouldn't you have some amount
> > of commercial success?
>
> Of course not. Commercial success works *against* being "underrated."
LOL... are you fucking kidding me? Tell me on critic who highly rates
Creed.
> You have this dumb, myopic idea that how a group is "rated" is only a
> function of people who present themselves as "critics."
>
> I'd say you should have a recording contract, but that's about as far as
> it goes.
Raja, The Great
And if you are really looking for underrated krautrock bands try
Agitation Free, Grobschnitt, Birth Control, Guru Guru, Lucifer's
Friend, Novalis, Embryo, La Dusseldorf, Kraan, Nektar etc. Calling
Faust, one of the most well-respected krautrock bands of all times as
underrated, shows that you have clue about krautrock. Your shallow
knowledge of every genre just shows... now start abusing me for using
the label krautrock...I am sure this is what you will do. You are a
shallow wannabe poser snob with cursory understanding of some few cool
indie bands - the kind of bands lameos like Robert Christgau and
pitchdorkmedia.com praise.
Alice Bowie
> Throwing out Raja's dumb "rock band" condition, some favorite 60s/70s
> acts of mine which I'd consider quite underrated. I could toil to prune
> the list a little more but, ehh, whatever.
> proggy:
> Robert Wyatt
I gave him a shot based on his rep. No soap for me.
> Phil Manzanera/801
There ya go. Not so much 'overrated' as 'undersuccessful'.
OK, it's a new word.
> poppy:
> The Easybeats
Agreed. They did some damn fine work. I assume they were much bigger
in Oz.
> folky:
> Tim Buckley
Phenomenal voice, and gone way too soon.
> other-y:
> Yoko Ono
I dunno. I think she's rated just about right.
> Thunderclap Newman
Not enough of a catalog for me to judge.
> Ken Nordine
My hero. Everyone in America knows that voice, but very few know his
album/radio work. I recently snagged 56 episodes of Word Jazz.
> Moby Grape
First album was killer. After that... not so much.
> Nico
Ummm....
> Pere Ubu
Datapanik was good. Otherwise, nah.
> Richard Hell & the Voidoids
Again, not enough of a catalog to judge. I'll say he's an underrated
guitar player, though.
> The Bonzo Dog Band
Cult following; don't know that they earned more. Probably much bigger
at home.
> The Fugs
Sweeet. Love 'em.
Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
"Alice Bowie" <belly...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8123f91c-75d6-404e...@o4g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Hister
>
> - Show quoted text -
No Raja in this case you are wrong, Roger has performed Syd's songs,
the most documented event is when he was confronted with Michael Stipe
in the audience and performed Dark Globe.
Ray
> Throwing out Raja's dumb "rock band" condition, some favorite 60s/70s
> acts of mine which I'd consider quite underrated. I could toil to prune
> the list a little more but, ehh, whatever.
>
> because there undoubtedly are a pile of reggae/world/funk/soul acts who
> deserve mention and just aren't on my radar.
>
> proggy:
> Art Bears
> Cluster
> Faust
> Harmonia
> Hatfield & the North
> This Heat
> Robert Wyatt
> Phil Manzanera/801
>
> poppy:
> Badfinger
> The Raspberries
> Sagittarius
> Sneakers
> The Beau Brummels
> The Easybeats
> The Left Banke
>
> Judee Sill
> Gene Clark/Dillard & Clark
> Phil Ochs
> Tim Buckley
>
> Yoko Ono
> Thunderclap Newman
> John Cale
> Kaleidoscope
> Ken Nordine
> Penguin Cafe Orchestra
> Moby Grape
> Nico
> Pere Ubu
> Silver Apples
> The Bonzo Dog Band
> The Fugs
> The Misunderstood
> The Music Machine
> The Pretty Things
Ken Nordine. :-)
What time is it?
Raja, The Great
okay i stand corrected.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years... Faust is
> > > hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
> > > constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu! They are well
> > > regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
> > > Cluster etc.
>
> > And if you are really looking for underrated krautrock bands try
> > Agitation Free, Grobschnitt, Birth Control, Guru Guru, Lucifer's
> > Friend, Novalis, Embryo, La Dusseldorf, Kraan, Nektar etc. Calling
> > Faust, one of the most well-respected krautrock bands of all times as
> > underrated, shows that you have clue about krautrock.
>
> on just how small Krautrock's fanbase is.
You are a fucking fool. It is almost as big as prog rock. If that is
the case Yes is very underrated as well...lol
>
> Every argument you're making has the same logical problem.
>
> It's like if I claimed the Chills can't be called underrated, because
> they're such a popular, important band among *fans of underground New
> Zealand pop*.
>
> Idiot logic.
>
> You have no perspective at all, because you don't live in the real
> world. You just Google.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Faust is so esoteric that even I hadn't heard the group's music until
> > > the past few years.
>
> > LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years...
>
> Derisive LOL.
>
> Imagine what an enormous percentage of the US population "lives in a
> cave" by your ridiculous definition.
>
> How many copies do you think the top-selling Faust album has sold in the
> States? I dunno...10,000? 20,000?
>
> > Faust is
> > hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
> > constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu!
>
> is?
>
> > They are well
> > regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
> > Cluster etc.
>
> idea about the real world out there.
>
> I have *heard of* Faust since the '80s -- but it was difficult to
> actually hear the albums. You don't understand this, because you're a
> newbie Internet twerp who doesn't know what the music-collecting world
> was like before the mp3-sharing age.
>
> > >Their albums go in and out of print on sketchy
> > > labels, and they're highly unlikely to turn up on any of your precious
> > > "all-time lists" unless the lists are obviously slanted toward prog.
>
> > They feature high on the krautrock lists...
>
lol, at least I dont blindly believe a list like you with
acclaimedmusic.net. I bet some Faust albums made it there.
Underrated??? lol. And you have become really pathetic these days. How
can you equate rating with sales or popularity? This is just mere
trolling.
JohnB
> On Nov 29, 7:54 pm, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
>
> > "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years... Faust is
> > > > hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
> > > > constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu! They are well
> > > > regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
> > > > Cluster etc.
>
> > > And if you are really looking for underrated krautrock bands try
> > > Agitation Free, Grobschnitt, Birth Control, Guru Guru, Lucifer's
> > > Friend, Novalis, Embryo, La Dusseldorf, Kraan, Nektar etc. Calling
> > > Faust, one of the most well-respected krautrock bands of all times as
> > > underrated, shows that you have clue about krautrock.
>
> > You're a stupid, ignorant little boy who has absolutely no perspective
> > on just how small Krautrock's fanbase is.
>
> You are a fucking fool. It is almost as big as prog rock. If that is
> the case Yes is very underrated as well...lol
>
Krautrock is "almost as big as prog"? Really? So if we compare the
album sales of bands like Yes, Genesis, etc. with the album sales for
Can, Faust, etc., we'll find they're fairly similar will we?
Well, I can't be bothered googling to sort this one out - I'll leave
that to you.
I take it that, with my limited exposure to Krautrock (I've heard
maybe half a dozen albums by the bands you name), that Krautrock is
much bigger in the USA than it is here. Much much bigger.
Raja, The Great
> On Nov 30, 2:45 pm, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 7:54 pm, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years... Faust is
> > > > > hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
> > > > > constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu! They are well
> > > > > regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
> > > > > Cluster etc.
>
> > > > And if you are really looking for underrated krautrock bands try
> > > > Agitation Free, Grobschnitt, Birth Control, Guru Guru, Lucifer's
> > > > Friend, Novalis, Embryo, La Dusseldorf, Kraan, Nektar etc. Calling
> > > > Faust, one of the most well-respected krautrock bands of all times as
> > > > underrated, shows that you have clue about krautrock.
>
> > > You're a stupid, ignorant little boy who has absolutely no perspective
> > > on just how small Krautrock's fanbase is.
>
> > You are a fucking fool. It is almost as big as prog rock. If that is
> > the case Yes is very underrated as well...lol
>
> Krautrock is "almost as big as prog"? Really? So if we compare the
> album sales of bands like Yes, Genesis, etc. with the album sales for
> Can, Faust, etc., we'll find they're fairly similar will we?
I was talking in terms of current audience, not past sales. Notice the
verb "is" instead of "was".
FYI on the sales topic, Genesis didn't sell crap as a prog band. All
their sales numbers are due to their pop era. Yes, Jethro Tull (who
werent prog for long) and ELP are the only prog bands to sell
anything. King Crimson didn
t sell shit either. Please do not include Floyd or Queen as prog. Led
Zeppelin was more prog than them.
> Well, I can't be bothered googling to sort this one out - I'll leave
> that to you.
> I take it that, with my limited exposure to Krautrock (I've heard
> maybe half a dozen albums by the bands you name), that Krautrock is
> much bigger in the USA than it is here. Much much bigger.
Ever since the Internet filesharing boom Krautrock has gotten a much
wider audience. Lets face it German krautrock bands were more
experimental than the British prog bands. And there will be always an
audience for experimental music. The newer experimental bands like
Radiohead all give credit to Krautrock more than progrock.
JohnB
> On Nov 30, 9:02 am, JohnB <johnbo...@tinyworld.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2:45 pm, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 29, 7:54 pm, poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > LOL, so you lived under a cave until the past few years... Faust is
> > > > > > hardly unknown... If you see the definition of Kraut rock you will
> > > > > > constantly see the mention of Can, Faust and Neu! They are well
> > > > > > regarded than even the likes of Ash Ra Tempel, Tangerine Dream,
> > > > > > Cluster etc.
>
> > > > > And if you are really looking for underrated krautrock bands try
> > > > > Agitation Free, Grobschnitt, Birth Control, Guru Guru, Lucifer's
> > > > > Friend, Novalis, Embryo, La Dusseldorf, Kraan, Nektar etc. Calling
> > > > > Faust, one of the most well-respected krautrock bands of all times as
> > > > > underrated, shows that you have clue about krautrock.
>
> > > > You're a stupid, ignorant little boy who has absolutely no perspective
> > > > on just how small Krautrock's fanbase is.
>
> > > You are a fucking fool. It is almost as big as prog rock. If that is
> > > the case Yes is very underrated as well...lol
>
> > Krautrock is "almost as big as prog"? Really? So if we compare the
> > album sales of bands like Yes, Genesis, etc. with the album sales for
> > Can, Faust, etc., we'll find they're fairly similar will we?
>
> I was talking in terms of current audience, not past sales. Notice the
> verb "is" instead of "was".
Ok, we shift to your rules again. Still - at least in the uk, you'll
hear a lot more prog on the radio than Krautrock - and I mean a *lot*
more. I am not aware of any great following for current Krautrock
bands (judging by the current crop of music mags) while prog rock is
having a bit of a revival (though it never went away).
>
> FYI on the sales topic, Genesis didn't sell crap as a prog band. All
> their sales numbers are due to their pop era. Yes, Jethro Tull (who
> werent prog for long) and ELP are the only prog bands to sell
> anything. King Crimson didnt sell shit either. Please do not include Floyd or Queen as prog.
> Led Zeppelin was more prog than them.
I do not include Queen as prog, their qualifications are too limited;
I would call Floyd prog as they are generally thought that way over
here, though they are still on the fringes. Tull only really had
moments that could be regarded as prog (TAAB, PP, maybe MITG?). I
think Genesis did sell in reasonable numbers pre-pop days, depending
when you think their pop days started (I'd say with Invisible Touch)
but they still have a healthy following. Even then, I would guess the
low numbers they may have sold still dwarf the sales figures for any
Krautrock band. You can prove me wrong if you like, but please don't
shift the goalposts again.
>
> > Well, I can't be bothered googling to sort this one out - I'll leave
> > that to you.
> > I take it that, with my limited exposure to Krautrock (I've heard
> > maybe half a dozen albums by the bands you name), that Krautrock is
> > much bigger in the USA than it is here. Much much bigger.
>
> Ever since the Internet filesharing boom Krautrock has gotten a much
> wider audience. Lets face it German krautrock bands were more
> experimental than the British prog bands. And there will be always an
> audience for experimental music. The newer experimental bands like
> Radiohead all give credit to Krautrock more than progrock.
Agreed, but that doesn't make the likes of Can, Neu! and the rest any
more popular - except within the comparatively small group of their
own fans.
Raja, The Great
Of course prog rock is less experimental. Kraurtrock is not really
accessible music to be played on radio. Also most Krautrock is on the
electronic side of things.
> more. I am not aware of any great following for current Krautrock
> bands (judging by the current crop of music mags) while prog rock is
> having a bit of a revival (though it never went away).
>
>
>
> > FYI on the sales topic, Genesis didn't sell crap as a prog band. All
> > their sales numbers are due to their pop era. Yes, Jethro Tull (who
> > werent prog for long) and ELP are the only prog bands to sell
> > anything. King Crimson didnt sell shit either. Please do not include Floyd or Queen as prog.
> > Led Zeppelin was more prog than them.
>
> I do not include Queen as prog, their qualifications are too limited;
> I would call Floyd prog as they are generally thought that way over
> here, though they are still on the fringes. Tull only really had
> moments that could be regarded as prog (TAAB, PP, maybe MITG?). I
> think Genesis did sell in reasonable numbers pre-pop days, depending
> when you think their pop days started (I'd say with Invisible Touch)
No I say ever since Trick Of The Tail they have been pop.
> but they still have a healthy following. Even then, I would guess the
> low numbers they may have sold still dwarf the sales figures for any
> Krautrock band. You can prove me wrong if you like, but please don't
> shift the goalposts again.
>
>
>
> > > Well, I can't be bothered googling to sort this one out - I'll leave
> > > that to you.
> > > I take it that, with my limited exposure to Krautrock (I've heard
> > > maybe half a dozen albums by the bands you name), that Krautrock is
> > > much bigger in the USA than it is here. Much much bigger.
>
> > Ever since the Internet filesharing boom Krautrock has gotten a much
> > wider audience. Lets face it German krautrock bands were more
> > experimental than the British prog bands. And there will be always an
> > audience for experimental music. The newer experimental bands like
> > Radiohead all give credit to Krautrock more than progrock.
>
> Agreed, but that doesn't make the likes of Can, Neu! and the rest any
> more popular - except within the comparatively small group of their
> own fans.
Again I dont understand why we are talking sales numbers. I was
talking about which band was underrated or just rated. It has nothing
to do with sales. Aerosmith sold more than The Who. Are you suggested
Aerosmith albums are rated higher or Aerosmith are rated higher
overall.
JohnB
I think most would disagree. I certainly would. There's nothing 'pop'
about TotT and certainly the next album, Wind & Wuthering. I could
have understood if you'd said And Now We Are Three which had their
first top ten hit single.
>
>
> > but they still have a healthy following. Even then, I would guess the
> > low numbers they may have sold still dwarf the sales figures for any
> > Krautrock band. You can prove me wrong if you like, but please don't
> > shift the goalposts again.
>
> > > > Well, I can't be bothered googling to sort this one out - I'll leave
> > > > that to you.
> > > > I take it that, with my limited exposure to Krautrock (I've heard
> > > > maybe half a dozen albums by the bands you name), that Krautrock is
> > > > much bigger in the USA than it is here. Much much bigger.
>
> > > Ever since the Internet filesharing boom Krautrock has gotten a much
> > > wider audience. Lets face it German krautrock bands were more
> > > experimental than the British prog bands. And there will be always an
> > > audience for experimental music. The newer experimental bands like
> > > Radiohead all give credit to Krautrock more than progrock.
>
> > Agreed, but that doesn't make the likes of Can, Neu! and the rest any
> > more popular - except within the comparatively small group of their
> > own fans.
>
> Again I dont understand why we are talking sales numbers. I was
> talking about which band was underrated or just rated. It has nothing
> to do with sales. Aerosmith sold more than The Who. Are you suggested
> Aerosmith albums are rated higher or Aerosmith are rated higher
> overall.
I think it was pr suggested that these bands could be regarded as
under-rated and you argued that they were indded popular. When he
suggested they were only popular within their own fan group and you
did not agree, that's when the sales numbers became part of the
discussion.
Raja, The Great
Popularity does not result in sales either. Velvet underground have
not sold much
Though hugely popular
JohnB
This is all getting very woolly. True, bands can be very popular due
to their live shows alone, but to be popular in any meaningful sense,
you have to look beyond their core of fans. What do the general music-
buying public think? And there the key word is "buying". I could tell
you that Tanglefoot were very popular and you may wish to disagree
because most people have never heard of them. However, I can assure
you that they were *very* popular.
> When he
>
> > suggested they were only popular within their own fan group and you
> > did not agree, that's when the sales numbers became part of the
> > discussion.
Trying to argue with you can be like trying to catch a bar of soap in
the bath.
Though please don't consider that analogy too much...
:-)
Raja, The Great
I feEl the same
Alice Bowie
> Alice Bowie <bellyfl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Robert Wyatt
>
> > I gave him a shot based on his rep. No soap for me.
>
>
> > > Ken Nordine
>
> > My hero.
>
> Cool!
>
> > > Moby Grape
>
> > First album was killer. After that... not so much.
>
>
> > > Pere Ubu
>
> > Datapanik was good. Otherwise, nah.
>
> band has stubbornly stuck to its own path, minus a half-hearted stab at
> commercial success around 1989-1991.
>
> > > The Bonzo Dog Band
> > > The Fugs
>
> at this point.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You're a stupid, ignorant little boy who has absolutely no perspective
> > > on just how small Krautrock's fanbase is.
>
> > You are a fucking fool.
>
> accumulated musical knowledge to shut down an ignorant, unthinking twerp
> like you.
>
> > It is almost as big as prog rock. If that is
> > the case Yes is very underrated as well...lol
>
> name any charting Krautrock album not released by Kraftwerk or Tangerine
> Dream? (And let's face it...most of the charting Kraftwerk albums are
> more synth-pop than Krautrock.)
>
> How come there isn't one Krautrock band with a Gold-selling album in the
> States, and yet there are loads of Gold-selling prog albums?
Again back to sales... quit trolling. The original question was
whether or not the premier krautrock bands are highly rated or not.
They are. Check your acclaimedmusic.net. You will find Faust, Neu!,
Kraftwerk and Can albums in there.
>
> Who were the Krautrock bands doing headlining arena tours during the
> '70s, alongside Yes, Genesis, Floyd, Rush, Kansas, ELP, etc.?
Who gives a fuck? Stop talking about sales. We are talking about
critical rating here. Faust, Neu!, Kraftwerk and Can are not
underrated. Piss off!
>
> > FYI on the sales topic, Genesis didn't sell crap as a prog band.
>
> Well, let's see.
>
> Look at all the charting albums Genesis had before their "pop" era:
>
> http://www.allmusic.com/artist/genesis-p4352/charts-awards
>
> Aren't facts wonderful? So much nicer than listening to the empty
> screaming of an angry, autistic idiot.
>
> > ever since Trick Of The Tail they have been pop.
>
> Another ridiculous claim which you only make because it helps your
> agenda.
>
> > Yes, Jethro Tull (who
> > werent prog for long) and ELP are the only prog bands to sell
> > anything.
>
> More stupidity casually turned away with facts.
>
> > Again I dont understand why we are talking sales numbers. I was
> > talking about which band was underrated or just rated. It has nothing
> > to do with sales.
>
> You are such a blooming moron. You have nothing in your head except
> "weblists."
>
> What is WRONG with you? Why are you incapable of thinking?
Hister
>
> - Show quoted text -
actually I ballzed that reply up, Stipe performed Dark Globe with
Roger in the audience, pardon me.
JohnB
<snip>
>
> Again back to sales... quit trolling. The original question was
> They are. Check your acclaimedmusic.net. You will find Faust, Neu!,
> Kraftwerk and Can albums in there.
>
Just because you seem to be interested in these bands, I though I'd
let you know that BBC4 has a documentary on Krautrock on tonight at
22:30 - 23:30. I don't know how it might be possible for someone
outside the uk to get this but there is usually someone who knows a
way.
Others might be interested to know that in the preceding hour and a
half there is a porgramme about Dave Brubeck, and following Krautrock
is a programme about Quincy Jones.
<snip>
JohnB
> On Nov 30, 10:24 pm, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > Again back to sales... quit trolling. The original question was
> > whether or not the premierkrautrockbands are highly rated or not.
> > They are. Check your acclaimedmusic.net. You will find Faust, Neu!,
> > Kraftwerk and Can albums in there.
>
> Just because you seem to be interested in these bands, I though I'd
> let you know that BBC4 has a documentary on Krautrock on tonight at
> 22:30 - 23:30. I don't know how it might be possible for someone
> outside the uk to get this but there is usually someone who knows a
> way.
>
And this link might help:
stuth...@comcast.net
> On Nov 29, 1:11 pm, Mike Smith <smit...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11/28/2010 11:56 AM, Raja, The Great wrote:
>
> > > This is MY list...
> > > These artists do not have many albums which are highly rated by
> > > critics in general... the fans of the sub-genre they belong in also do
> > > not rate them that high (they are usually in second tier).
>
> > > 1. Moody Blues - Not considered as a bad band, but not considered a
> > > great band either. True, they never wrote an album which was
> > > consistent from end to end. But all their albums from Days Of Future
> > > Passed to Seventh Sojourn have at least 2-3 great memorable songs.
> > > They were the king of melodies. I like their albums Days of Future
> > > Passed, In Search Of The Lost Chord, On The Threshold Of A Dream, To
> > > Our Children's Children's Children very much.
>
>
> > Well, then, how are they "underrated", you nob? You understand what the
> > term means, dontcha?
>
> I have a very high definition of masterpieces. Most highly rated bands
> rated above Moody Blues like Eagles, Aerosmith, Police, Van Halen, U2
> never made any masterpiece of any kind. But Moody Blues are rated way
> too low for all the great songs they made.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I rarely have any patience for or interest in The Eagles, but any
album that sold as many copies as HOTEL CALIFORNIA has to be
considered some kind of masterpiece.
Same for BOSTON and BAT OUT OF HELL.
Raja, The Great
wrote:
On the other hand it would have 5 all time classics and 5 junk songs.
So it is not a masterpiece then? Its possible many people bought it
for those 5 songs. I havent heard Hotel Califonia album yet. But I
have heard Boston's self titled debut. It has 4 great songs (More
Than A Feeling, Peace Of Mind, Foreplay/Long Time and Smokin') and 4
garbage songs (Rock and Roll, Hitch A Ride, Something About You and
Let Me Take You Home Tonight). So it is 50% great, 50% junk. How can
you consider that a masterpiece?
>
> Same for BOSTON and BAT OUT OF HELL.
I was never impressed by Bat Out of Hell, but I do like the first two
songs (Bat Out Of Hell and You Took The Words Right Out of My Mouth).
I do not like Paradise by the Dashboard Light even though it was a
hit.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So it is not a masterpiece then? Its possible many people bought it
> > for those 5 songs. I havent heard Hotel Califonia album yet. But I
> > have heard Boston's self titled debut. It has 4 great songs (More
> > Than A Feeling, Peace Of Mind, Foreplay/Long Time and Smokin') and 4
> > garbage songs (Rock and Roll, Hitch A Ride, Something About You and
> > Let Me Take You Home Tonight). So it is 50% great, 50% junk. How can
> > you consider that a masterpiece?
>
> proclamations that those albums are "factually" 50% great, 50% junk.
> Ever consider that?
I am just expressing my opinion of the album. Am I not allowed to do
that? I like the 4 songs very much, the other 4 not so. My guess is
the album sold truckloads because of those 4 big hits in the same
album. Usually even the best albums do not have 4 big hits.
>
> You've got to get over obsessing over terms like "classic,"
> "masterpiece," "highly rated," etc.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On the other hand it would have 5 all time classics and 5 junk songs.
> > > > So it is not a masterpiece then? Its possible many people bought it
> > > > for those 5 songs. I havent heard Hotel Califonia album yet. But I
> > > > have heard Boston's self titled debut. It has 4 great songs (More
> > > > Than A Feeling, Peace Of Mind, Foreplay/Long Time and Smokin') and 4
> > > > garbage songs (Rock and Roll, Hitch A Ride, Something About You and
> > > > Let Me Take You Home Tonight). So it is 50% great, 50% junk. How can
> > > > you consider that a masterpiece?
>
> > > It's possible that he just might not go along with your overconfident
> > > proclamations that those albums are "factually" 50% great, 50% junk.
> > > Ever consider that?
>
> > I am just expressing my opinion of the album. Am I not allowed to do
> > that?
>
> masterpieces, since they're half terrible?" You're projecting your own
> opinion into his perspective.
No I am just stating my opinion.
P-Dub
Best band of all time was the Partridge Family. They even had a TV show
for Gawd's sake.
P-Dub: Runner-up: Bay City Rollers and the Knack
Raja, The Great
> casually shrugs, "Well, I guess you're just more tolerant of bad music
> than I am."
Thats true, some people are more tolerant. Just like you are tolerant
of the shitty music of these days.
Raja, The Great
> "Raja, The" <zepflo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > But you essentially asked him, "How can you consider these albums
> > > > > masterpieces, since they're half terrible?" You're projecting your own
> > > > > opinion into his perspective.
>
> > > > No I am just stating my opinion.
>
> > > It's like the pompous turd who dislikes someone else's favored music and
> > > casually shrugs, "Well, I guess you're just more tolerant of bad music
> > > than I am."
>
> > Thats true, some people are more tolerant. Just like you are tolerant
> > of the shitty music of these days.
>
> tactic which someone uses, and then the person responds by just doing it
> anyway.
Considering that fact that it makes you wet your panties, why would
someone not do so? ;-)
JohnB
> something other than a moronic, ignorant poseur.
You shouldn't try and sink to his level of argument, you know.
Bed Warmer
>I rarely have any patience for or interest in The Eagles, but any
>album that sold as many copies as HOTEL CALIFORNIA has to be
>considered some kind of masterpiece.
>Same for BOSTON and BAT OUT OF HELL.
And then you disprove your own point. I bought Bat Out of Hell
because EVERYBODY told me it was great. A bit of it was clever
(Paradise . . . ) some of it listenable, "Bat Out of Hell" but most of
it was largely forgettable. I just don't 'get' Meatloaf.
Bedwarmer
--
"Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit.
Slow thinkers keep right." - Peter Principle
Picture of the Day http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
Bed Warmer
>Best band of all time was the Partridge Family. They even had a TV show
>for Gawd's sake.
Monkees. Their album "Headquarters" was a surprising masterpiece of
mid sixties/early pysych blended with really quite good songwriting.
They were fortunate to get good engineering as well.
Klaatu
news:lt8bg6hqvu6n8f8sk...@4ax.com...
He was memorable in the RHPS as Eddie. That's at least something....
Bed Warmer
>"Bed Warmer" <bedw...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>I rarely have any patience for or interest in The Eagles, but any
>>>album that sold as many copies as HOTEL CALIFORNIA has to be
>>>considered some kind of masterpiece.
I didn't think to much of the Eagles until Hotel California either.
>>>Same for BOSTON and BAT OUT OF HELL.
>> And then you disprove your own point. I bought Bat Out of Hell
>> because EVERYBODY told me it was great. A bit of it was clever
>> (Paradise . . . ) some of it listenable, "Bat Out of Hell" but most of
>> it was largely forgettable. I just don't 'get' Meatloaf.
>He was memorable in the RHPS as Eddie. That's at least something....
As for Boston, if the whole thing hadn't descended into a squabble
about royalties after the first album, we might have seen a longer,
brighter career. That said, their first two albums and bits of the
third were quite good, but nothing matched the magic of that first
record in it's time.
Bedwarmer
--
"All the sinners are just Saints without sparks." -- "All the sinners are just Saints without sparks." -- Jamiroquai
Hot Buttered Sole
zepf...@gmail.com a écrit dans l'article:
> These artists do not have many albums which are highly rated by
> critics in general... the fans of the sub-genre they belong in also do
> not rate them that high (they are usually in second tier).
>
>
> Wishbone Ash (no success)
> Humble Pie (no success)
> Uriah Heep (respect among prog metal fans, but not as much as say
> Rush)
> Whitesnake (no one knows they were a blues based hard rock band in the
> 70s)
> Slade (too glam to be taken seriously?)
> Rainbow (too nerdy for a hard rock band?)
>
With all due respects, sir, you are an idiot.
King Size Johnson
> With all due respects, sir, you are an idiot.
Raja isn't due any respect.