Dr. Gil Lederman who treated Harrison, fined $5,000
John Whelan
has now been "censured, reprimanded and ordered
to pay a $5,000 fine for what the department deemed
a violation of patient confidentiality when the Beatle
died two years ago". Further details...
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/12340.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Beatles Timeline:
http://beatles.ncf.ca/timeline.html
Ottawa Beatles site
http://beatles.ncf.ca/
Expo 67
http://expo67.ncf.ca/
Cult TV Classics:
http://www.ncf.ca/~an569/johnwhelan.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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TAR
>
> New York Post is reporting that Dr. Gil Lederman
> has now been "censured, reprimanded and ordered
> to pay a $5,000 fine for what the department deemed
> a violation of patient confidentiality when the Beatle
> died two years ago". Further details...
>
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/12340.htm
Was this whole thing really necessary? This doctor was so closed
mouthed about everything. My girlfriend worked at the hospital and
handled George's MRIs, and she couldn't even tell me about it or Dr.
Lederman would have fired her on the spot. Very few people knew about
it, and those who did were given specific orders to zip it.
Dr. Lederman is a fan of George's. He admired him greatly and had the
utmost respect for him. Once word leaked out and the jig was up, he was
being hounded by the press, but he never revealed anything about his
medical condition. Later, he did say some nice things about him that I
don't feel was really all that personal. So here's a man who has always
admired and respected George, a man who has dedicated his life to
helping others in a unique way, and now his entire reputation has to get
ruined because someone at the "Harrison estate" claims she was
distressed by it? Give me a break.
- Donna
Liza
>mouthed about everything. My girlfriend worked at the hospital and
>handled George's MRIs, and she couldn't even tell me about it or Dr.
>Lederman would have fired her on the spot. Very few people knew about
>it, and those who did were given specific orders to zip it.
>
>Dr. Lederman is a fan of George's. He admired him greatly and had the
>utmost respect for him. Once word leaked out and the jig was up, he was
>being hounded by the press, but he never revealed anything about his
>medical condition. Later, he did say some nice things about him that I
>don't feel was really all that personal. So here's a man who has always
>admired and respected George, a man who has dedicated his life to
>helping others in a unique way, and now his entire reputation has to get
>ruined because someone at the "Harrison estate" claims she was
>distressed by it? Give me a break.
>
> - Donna
Well personally, when I read so many quotes from this doctor following George's
death, I remember thinking that it was really tacky at best, and exploitative
at worst. He may be a great doctor who admired George, but the fact is, he
stepped over the line, regardless of whether he was being "hounded" or not.
And let's not get hysterical here-- I really don't think this makes his
reputation "entirely ruined." He screwed up, he got fined, he'll move on.
And just curious, why "claims"? Do you think the person from Harrison's estate
(since you say "she", I take it you are assuming the person was Olivia) was
lying by saying that s/he was distressed? What would the estate have to gain
by that? They don't get the money.
-Liza
TAR
>
> >Was this whole thing really necessary? This doctor was so closed
> >mouthed about everything. My girlfriend worked at the hospital and
> >handled George's MRIs, and she couldn't even tell me about it or Dr.
> >Lederman would have fired her on the spot. Very few people knew about
> >it, and those who did were given specific orders to zip it.
> >
> >Dr. Lederman is a fan of George's. He admired him greatly and had the
> >utmost respect for him. Once word leaked out and the jig was up, he was
> >being hounded by the press, but he never revealed anything about his
> >medical condition. Later, he did say some nice things about him that I
> >don't feel was really all that personal. So here's a man who has always
> >admired and respected George, a man who has dedicated his life to
> >helping others in a unique way, and now his entire reputation has to get
> >ruined because someone at the "Harrison estate" claims she was
> >distressed by it? Give me a break.
> >
> > - Donna
>
> Well personally, when I read so many quotes from this doctor following George's
> death, I remember thinking that it was really tacky at best, and exploitative
> at worst.
Did you really? I didn't at all. Apparently there are some rules to
this and I'm not saying that he shouldn't own up to that, but I don't
really think he crossed the line by saying that George didn't fear
death, and that he played a little guitar for his son. The world
already knew that he didn't fear death, so how can Olivia have been so
distressed by this?
> He may be a great doctor who admired George, but the fact is, he
> stepped over the line, regardless of whether he was being "hounded" or not.
> And let's not get hysterical here-- I really don't think this makes his
> reputation "entirely ruined." He screwed up, he got fined, he'll move on.
It's in the news, and has been in the news on and off for two years
now. Alright, maybe not entirely, but I think his reputation has been
ruined to an extent.
> And just curious, why "claims"? Do you think the person from Harrison's estate
> (since you say "she", I take it you are assuming the person was Olivia) was
> lying by saying that s/he was distressed? What would the estate have to gain
> by that? They don't get the money.
>
> -Liza
Liza, dissing Olivia is very unpopular here... apparently she can do no
wrong for whatever reason. The fact is, most people here know little
about her. I think I'll take the fifth on this one. Just suffice it to
say that I'm not one of her admirers.
- Donna
Globalsearch
story (a UK paper quoted him extensively) about the day Ringo and Paul saw
George for the last time. We've learned in TV interviews with Ringo that he
last saw George in Switzerland a few weeks before he died; Paul later talked
about his last visit with George (in New York) which Heather wrote about in her
book. In fairness to Lederman, it's possible that the interview was
fabricated.
While on the subject of false reports, details of George's last moments
according to Krishna's who claimed to be present have been debunked by Olivia
(she denied they were there). Words attributed to George on the last day may
have been fiction as well. In a radio interview I heard Saturday with Ravi
Shankar, he said he saw George the day before he died, and that George was
conscious and smiled but was unable to speak.
Carol
John Whelan
"TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3FCCCB...@ix.netcom.com...
> Did you really? I didn't at all. Apparently there are some rules to
> this and I'm not saying that he shouldn't own up to that, but I don't
> really think he crossed the line by saying that George didn't fear
> death, and that he played a little guitar for his son.
Lederman crossed the line when he simply
DID NOT GET PERMISSION from the Harrison's
to discuss the status of George's health. In cases
such as this, the medical code of conduct are
"black and white" and with good reason.
Regards,
John Whelan
TAR
He never once discussed the status of George's health. They even stated
this in the article.
- Donna
TAR
>
> In addition to the confidentiality issue, Lederman fabricated at least one
> story (a UK paper quoted him extensively) about the day Ringo and Paul saw
> George for the last time.
I never heard this.
> We've learned in TV interviews with Ringo that he
> last saw George in Switzerland a few weeks before he died; Paul later talked
> about his last visit with George (in New York) which Heather wrote about in her
> book. In fairness to Lederman, it's possible that the interview was
> fabricated.
>
> While on the subject of false reports, details of George's last moments
> according to Krishna's who claimed to be present have been debunked by Olivia
> (she denied they were there). Words attributed to George on the last day may
> have been fiction as well. In a radio interview I heard Saturday with Ravi
> Shankar, he said he saw George the day before he died, and that George was
> conscious and smiled but was unable to speak.
> Carol
I am still amazed by what these writers get away with. I always thought
that a quote was a quote. Not so. Besides all the made-up quotes that
I read which were attributed to Lou, another one comes to mind.
Supposedly Pauline, George's sister-in-law, was once quoted as saying
that George was in a bad way. It hit several papers. But she never
even spoke to the reporter. Apparently, these fabrications happen more
often than people realize.
- Donna
Mister Charlie
> Globalsearch wrote:
> >
> > In addition to the confidentiality issue, Lederman fabricated at
least one
> > story (a UK paper quoted him extensively) about the day Ringo and
Paul saw
> > George for the last time.
>
> I never heard this.
>
both traipsed to the hospital together and spent a lovely afternoon
reuiniting the Threetles one more time. Only later did we learn that
was incorrect. Seems there was a LOT of misinformation flying around at
that time.
Of course I have no idea of the source of this story as it related to
the Doctor.
Fredric J. Einstein
George's doctor Gil Lederman and/or the media made up this entire
story..... Too bad, it would have been sweet to think of George's
last day together with his old pals....
GEORGE HARRISON enjoyed an emotional Last Supper with fellow Beatles
Sir Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr just days before lost his tragic
battle with cancer, the Sunday People can reveal today.
Legendary pop pals Macca and Ringo flew to New York to say farewell to
George after he told them he didn't have long to live.
Although he was desperately ill, the three friends laughed and joked
for hours as they chatted about the heady days of Beatlemania. And
George drew great strength and solace form his last meeting with two
of his closest friends. A source close to Paul said last night: "They
knew this was their last supper. It was really emotional.
"There were some tears - but there was more laughter than anything
else."
George's doctor Gil Lederman also sat in on part of the historic
meeting.
He said: "It was a spirited affair, not a somber one.
"There were lots of laughs and lots of fun. They spent hours
reminiscing.
"For me, it was a unique phenomenon to be there. The whole experience
was an incredible one. These were the icons of my life - some of the
most important people of the 20th century.
"There were tears, but George remained very much the man of dignity.
"At the end, after both Paul and Ringo had left, he was fine and calm.
He was a very happy man. This meeting meant so much to him."
The three Beatles met for lunch on Monday, November 12 - just 17 days
before George lost his ongoing battle with throat cancer.
Paul was the first to arrive after flying in from London with fiancie
Heather Mills. Drummer Ringo drove to George's apartment from a hotel
nearby after jetting in a few days earlier. Frail George, 58, who was
on medication, ate a vegetarian meal and drank only water.
But the old friends laughed and chuckled throughout the 90-minute
lunch.
Then just before Ringo said he had to go, George's family and other
friends retired to leave the three music legends alone together for
the last time.
Paul's friend said: "Over the years they'd all had their differences,
but all those disagreements were tossed aside as they realised just
how much they meant to each other.
"Paul always remembers that George and he spent their first meeting
laughing at each other's jokes - and it was appropriate that their
last moments together were the same. With Ringo there, feelings ran
high and all three had so much to say to each other. They just chatted
and chatted - and it was George who set the tone with his humour. He
had them all in fits of laughter. He may have been close to death, but
he refused to let that defeat his great sense of humour."
George left after lunch for his treatment at Staten Island University
Hospital. But Paul - who called the Beatles' lead guitarist his "baby
brother" - insisted on staying until he returned.
He spent the rest of the day with him and his wife Olivia, cherishing
their last moments together.
Paul's friend said: "Paul did say to George and Ringo that he regarded
them as his brothers and his true family."
As they talked about the Beatles' early days in Hamburg and their
experiments with drugs and religion, "you could feel the warmth
between them".
The pal added: "George was clearly picked up by the afternoon. He was
smiling, happy and seemed so delighted to see his friends.
"Deep down he knew this was their last moments together and realised
just what a great life they had together.
"Of course there were tears, but that was during the goodbyes.
"For the most part George, Paul and Ringo forgot about his condition
and all seemed to carry on as if they hadn't been apart from each
other for 30 years."
One of the high points was George's recollection of losing his
virginity in a Hamburg hotel while the other Beatles slept in bunk
beds next to him.
They then cheered and clapped after he finished making love to a
stunning blonde teenager. The friend said: "The story still makes them
all laugh today.
"And that was the abiding emotion of the day - laughter and happiness.
It was a wonderful day for George."
TAR
>
> "TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCDDC...@ix.netcom.com...
> > Globalsearch wrote:
> > >
> > > In addition to the confidentiality issue, Lederman fabricated at
> least one
> > > story (a UK paper quoted him extensively) about the day Ringo and
> Paul saw
> > > George for the last time.
> >
> > I never heard this.
> >
> Yeah, the initial reports were pretty widespread, that Paul and Ringo
> both traipsed to the hospital together and spent a lovely afternoon
> reuiniting the Threetles one more time. Only later did we learn that
> was incorrect. Seems there was a LOT of misinformation flying around at
> that time.
There sure was. Before any of the reports came out, Lou told me that
Paul had visited George at the house, but she never mentioned Ringo.
That's why I was a little confused when I read this in the press.
> Of course I have no idea of the source of this story as it related to
> the Doctor.
There was no mention of any of this in the current newspapers, so I'm
inclined to think that he never said this at all. Just more made up
stuff to sell the rags.
I think probably the worst thing he said was that George was no longer
in the hospital, but an outpatient and staying at a private home. I'm
not sure if he said this before or after George left Staten Island. I
think I remember it being after. But if it was before, he most likely
said this because once word leaked out about George being treated,
reporters were swarming the hospital. On Halloween, they usually give
some stuff out to the kids, but I heard that no one could even get near
it on that day because of all the press and security surrounding it. So
I guess the reporters then figured that George was staying at Dr.
Lederman's house, so they started to surround his... even bothering his
little boy and trying to pump him for information.
Anyway, Dr. Lederman really didn't say very much. Never mentioned any
health issues, and thought he was being positive when he said that
George didn't fear death and thought it was a part of life. He didn't
think anyone would object to that. Even the Health Department
recognized it as a minor mistake...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031203/ap_on_he_me/people_harrison_s_doctor_2
- Donna
TAR
>
> Here's a copy of this story which was in the Mirror. Apparently,
> George's doctor Gil Lederman and/or the media made up this entire
> story..... Too bad, it would have been sweet to think of George's
> last day together with his old pals....
The Mirror?? Well, that says it all. I've seen other stuff in this
paper with attributions to Lou that she said were completely false. And
who's this "friend" that they keep quoting? That, alone, should cause
suspicion about its accuracy.
George wasn't even staying at an apartment. And here's the best yet...
The three of them reminisced about their experiments with drugs?? :\
- Donna
Liza
Rolling Stone (that's where I read it).
-Liza
TAR
You just don't know what paper to trust anymore.
Globalsearch
>Message-id: <3FCDDC...@ix.netcom.com>
>
>Globalsearch wrote:
>>
>> In addition to the confidentiality issue, Lederman fabricated at least one
>> story (a UK paper quoted him extensively) about the day Ringo and Paul saw
>> George for the last time.
>
>I never heard this.
>
since it had so many direct quotes it MIGHT be true:
http://tinyurl.com/xlpq Carol
Sixties Gen
> New York Post is reporting that Dr. Gil Lederman
> has now been "censured, reprimanded and ordered
> to pay a $5,000 fine for what the department deemed
> a violation of patient confidentiality when the Beatle
> died two years ago". Further details...
>
> http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/12340.htm
>
>
Well, well, well, he's feeling fined
Stephen X. Carter
<fein...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Here's a copy of this story which was in the Mirror. Apparently,
>George's doctor Gil Lederman and/or the media made up this entire
>story..... Too bad, it would have been sweet to think of George's
>last day together with his old pals....
>
>
>GEORGE HARRISON enjoyed an emotional Last Supper with fellow Beatles
>Sir Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr just days before lost his tragic
>battle with cancer, the Sunday People can reveal today.
This quote would appear to be from the Sunday People and not
from the Mirror....
--
st...@stephencarterNOSPAM.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!
John Whelan
> John Whelan wrote:
> > Lederman crossed the line when he simply
> > DID NOT GET PERMISSION from the Harrison's
> > to discuss the status of George's health. In cases
> > such as this, the medical code of conduct are
> > "black and white" and with good reason.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Whelan
>
>
> He never once discussed the status of George's health. They even stated
> this in the article.
>
> - Donna
Well, then, let's look at what your American law states about the
medical code of conduct:
Under law, the "revealing of personally
identifiable facts, data, or information
obtained in a professional capacity without
the prior consent of the patient . . .
is defined as misconduct."
- Source: From Celebrity News, Wed, May 22,
2002. BEATLE'S 'GOSSIPY' DOC ON HOT SEAT
The article mentions specifically that NO permission was
ever given to Lederman to discuss the status of George's
health which includes what kind of "mental state" the Beatle
may be experiencing when dealing with "death" at the time
whether it was positive or negative -- and I quote from
Lederman own words (who even uses the situation to
promote his business by giving out his phone number!)
NEWSWEEK: What can you tell me about the
treatment Harrison received at Staten
Island University Hospital?
Dr. Gil Lederman: I can't talk about treatment
of patients. But I can talk about why we treat
people, and why they come here from around the
world.
Why do people come to you? Published reports
stated that Harrison sought treatment with you
after other more conventional methods failed
him.
Patients come here from around the world for
radiosurgery. Radiosurgery is pinpoint radiation.
We're able to zero in the beams of radiation
very precisely to just hit the cancer. And
because we can do that, we can hit the cancer
and not harm normal tissues, and we can boost
the dose of treatment.
What's the success rate with this type of
radiosurgery?
It's about 90 percent. That doesn't mean that
90 percent of the people are cured. It means
90 percent of the cancers we treat stop growing,
shrink or disappear. For some people, the goal
is to cure them. For others, the goal is to
relieve pain and suffering ... Many patients
from famous cancer centers come to us because
they want to have better treatment and more
sophisticated treatment. Or, the treatment at
that cancer center didn't work, and they wanted
to have a second chance.
Your hospital advertises on 1010 WINS,
New York's all-news radio station. What
do you like about the ads?
'The point of our ads,' says Lederman, 'is to
educate patients that there are treatments
available at our hospital that don't exist
elsewhere'
The ads used to have my voice, which I liked
a lot more. I thought it was more personal.
It conveyed a sense of who I am and why we do
what we do. The point of our ads is to educate
patients that there are treatments available
at our hospital that don't exist elsewhere.
Many people are very angry that they weren't
offered other treatment options to begin with.
We also have an 800 number, which is 1-800-285-
4584.
Do you accept patients into your program based
on how rare their condition is?
No, we accept them based on whether we can
help them.
You issued a statement that mentioned Harrison's
spirituality and love for his family. Obviously,
you got to know him well. What can you tell us
about Harrison on a personal level?
He was a very warm, spiritual, intelligent and
sensitive man. He was fearless. He was attacked
and nearly killed two years ago. He grabbed the
knife at the sharp end from the attacker's hand.
How was Harrison facing his own death?
He viewed death as a natural process of life.
He believed that death is part of life, and had
no fear of death. None whatsoever. Sometimes it
made those around him uncomfortable. But he was
totally fearless about it. He viewed death as
a natural process of life. He faced the end
with great humor and courage.
How did Harrison's attitude toward dying compare
to other patients you treat?
He was much more spiritual than most people.
He was very special. This was a man adored by
millions, and yet he craved the solitude of
a quiet day. He could be happy in a little
apartment by himself with a guitar. He didn't
need great toys to amuse himself. He was very
happy within his skin.
There are reports that Harrison left your
hospital in New York last week, and then came
to Los Angeles for treatment at UCLA Medical
Center a few days before his death. Did you
refer him to UCLA?
Again, I can't comment on the medical treatment.
But, in general, a lot of people go back to
their home base when they complete therapy.
His wife and in-laws are all from Los Angeles.
How did you learn of Harrison's death?
I was called Thursday night by his friends.
The family's statement says he died at a
friend's house.
I would assume that he didn't want to be in a
hospital to die. He was a spiritual man. He
wanted to be surrounded by beauty and by nature.
Did he talk to you about his last wishes? Did
he want to be cremated?
I'm not sure. I assume the family does not want
something that would become a tourist trap.
We associate Harrison with Eastern spirituality,
but there are reports that he also became a
born-again Christian in his later years. Did you
ever talk to him about religion?
He never converted to Hindu or anything else.
I think his spirituality came from deep within.
Š 2001 Newsweek, Inc.
Source: Newsweek - "He Was Fearless" by Ana Figueroa,
November 30, 2001.
From Me To You
>Well, well, well, he's feeling fined.
That was rather clever! Very good!
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:|:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
The Beatles
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:|:- ((¸¸ ·.·
TAR
>
> "TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCDDA...@ix.netcom.com...
> > this in the article.
> >
> > - Donna
>
> Well, then, let's look at what your American law states about the
> medical code of conduct:
>
> Under law, the "revealing of personally
> identifiable facts, data, or information
> obtained in a professional capacity without
> the prior consent of the patient . . .
> is defined as misconduct."
>
> - Source: From Celebrity News, Wed, May 22,
> 2002. BEATLE'S 'GOSSIPY' DOC ON HOT SEAT
>
> The article mentions specifically that NO permission was
> ever given to Lederman to discuss the status of George's
> health which includes what kind of "mental state" the Beatle
> may be experiencing when dealing with "death" at the time
> whether it was positive or negative -- and I quote from
> Lederman own words (who even uses the situation to
> promote his business by giving out his phone number!)
The way I read this was not that he was trying to promote his business.
I read it as that he was trying to get the message out about a procedure
that most people didn't know could help them.
Dr. Lederman is a doctor and a man who admired George. He admitted that
he made a mistake by answering these questions after his death, and now
he's paying for it. But I don't think he said anything so personal, or
anything that the public didn't already basically know. I especially
didn't see anything that would have caused Olivia to be "distressed"
enough to try to get him into trouble.
And, on a personal note, I have heard from others who know him that Dr.
Lederman is a really nice person.
UsurperTom
>George wasn't even staying at an apartment.
George also didn't like apartments. The reason George's visits to NY over the
years were few and far between was because he was claustrophobic.
Usurper
John Whelan
> John Whelan wrote:
> >
> > "TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3FCDDA...@ix.netcom.com...
>
>
> Lederman is a really nice person.
Donna, it's not about whether the Doctor is nice or not as
a person, it about a code of medical ethics they must
follow for George's "emotional" health is as equally
important as "physical" health. Lederman should have known
better. He simply did not get permission to discuss this
and that's where he "goofed". And in the course of his
conversation with the press, giving out ones business
phone number like that was the other mistake. That
probably even sunk him even further. If I were
looking at it from the viewpoint of Olivia Harrison, I would
be very upset that not only did the doctor not get
permission to discuss the late Beatle's health, but
also took advantage to promote one's own medical
business at the same time. Lederman blew it and
that's why he was fined $5,000.
Regards,
John Whelan
TAR
>
> "TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCE6D...@ix.netcom.com...
> > John Whelan wrote:
> > >
> > > "TAR" <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FCDDA...@ix.netcom.com...
> >
> >
> > And, on a personal note, I have heard from others who know him that Dr.
> > Lederman is a really nice person.
>
> Donna, it's not about whether the Doctor is nice or not as
> a person,
Did I say that it was? I just mentioned it as a personal note.
> it about a code of medical ethics they must
> follow for George's "emotional" health is as equally
> important as "physical" health.
I never said that he shouldn't have followed the rules, although I
didn't read anywhere that it also specifically means that one can't talk
about one's emotional health. He got in trouble by "revealing
personally identifiable information"
> Lederman should have known
> better.
I suppose he didn't, and that was his mistake.
> He simply did not get permission to discuss this
> and that's where he "goofed". And in the course of his
> conversation with the press, giving out ones business
> phone number like that was the other mistake. That
> probably even sunk him even further.
I honestly don't think that played a part in any of this.
> If I were
> looking at it from the viewpoint of Olivia Harrison, I would
> be very upset that not only did the doctor not get
> permission to discuss the late Beatle's health, but
> also took advantage to promote one's own medical
> business at the same time.
Or maybe she just had a personal problem with him?
> Lederman blew it and
> that's why he was fined $5,000.
Agreed.
bongo
> Liza, dissing Olivia is very unpopular here...
Well, certainly looking for reasons to dislike and speak ill
of someone I do not know--merely because they happened to marry
somebody whose music I was fond of--is not something that
has ever made sense to me.
> apparently she can do no wrong for whatever reason.
Whether she "can" or not, she has certainly never done me
any disservice, unkindness, or discourtesy. Indeed, like
the other Beatles spouses, the only way she even peripherally
touches my life is by being and having been important and
dear to someone who at a time--and importantly, at a distance--
felt important and dear to me.
> The fact is, most people here know little about her.
I don't know why it should be otherwise. George was not our
possession, even though he may have touched our hearts.
> But I don't think he said anything so personal, or
> anything that the public didn't already basically know.
> I especially didn't see anything that would have caused
> Olivia to be "distressed" enough to try to get him into trouble.
Nor have you been a Beatle, or wife of a Beatle, and had so
many people feel so entitled to possess everything about your
life, with no respect for your wishes or privacy. You have
not been stalked with unflagging tenacity by unscrupulous
media creeps. You have not had a madman break into your house
to try to murder your husband in the middle of the night, due
to what he believed to be true about the beatles. Nor have
you had to deal with vultures such as Giuliano, or liars who
fabricate stories, quotes, events, and interviews about your
husband's impending death, for sake of a headline. (I'm not
saying the good doctor--whom I also don't know--has done this,
but we do know for certain that it happened on multiple
occasions in George's last months on earth, and that some of
the lies were phrased as if they had been spoken by the
doctor himself, much as other lies were earlier attributed
to George Martin.)
No disrespect intended, but it's true that you don't know
why Olivia might feel distressed, for you haven't been
through any of this yourself.
It's not that hard to extend to people one doesn't know the
same respect and compassion one would extend to a friend, as
far as I can see. And to look for reasons to gossip about
or speak ill of a friend--particularly a friend in distress--
is again something which has never made any sense to me.
This is not intended to be an attack on you--whom I also do
not know!--but merely something to think about.
Someone I cared about is gone, and his loved ones must surely
feel his absence more grievously than I ever can. My heart
cannot help but feel for them, and I wish them well.
peace,
--bongo
TAR
Generally, I would agree with you, Bongo. In fact, this is something I
feel I could write, myself... for others, perhaps. And, in fact, I
have... in defense of Yoko, and Heather. In this particular case, I
have reasons for feeling the way that I do. Some of it is actually
personal, and some of it is just a matter of knowing too much. It's
*because* I don't want to speak ill or gossip, and also out of respect
for George, that I won't reveal anything or even try to defend my
position. But my feelings on this are what they are, and I don't see
why I should have to hide them here... though I do bite my lip more
often than not.
no posessions
>
> We associate Harrison with Eastern spirituality,
> but there are reports that he also became a
> born-again Christian in his later years.
Of course he did.
As do we all.
Jesus folks.
Jesus. He saves you. If you give him the chance.
Jesus.
no posessions
> TAR <tom....@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<3FCCCB...@ix.netcom.com>...
>
> > Liza, dissing Olivia is very unpopular here...
>
> Well, certainly looking for reasons to dislike and speak ill
thats offensve. instead of dislike and speak ill how about love.
no love is offensive.
im religion
Stephen Hobbs TPG
"no posessions" <mikep...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8927a48a.03120...@posting.google.com...
no posessions
> Harrison chanting Hari Krishna is hardly the act of a Christian.
his lips might of said hare krishna.
but his soul cried out for jesus.
'nuff said
no posessions
>
> > Liza, dissing Olivia is very unpopular here...
>
> Well, certainly looking for reasons to dislike and speak ill
> of someone I do not know--merely because they happened to marry
> somebody whose music I was fond of--is not something that
> has ever made sense to me.
thats makes two of us my friend. i feel your religious.
god bless you.
Actually Ryno
wrote:
Did his phone call out for pizza?
Stephen Hobbs TPG
"no posessions" <mikep...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8927a48a.0312...@posting.google.com...
Teddy
What did his T-shirt say?
Teddy
> an...@freenet.carleton.ca (John Whelan) wrote in message news:<bqlolp$b5k$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>...
>
>
> >
> > We associate Harrison with Eastern spirituality,
> > but there are reports that he also became a
> > born-again Christian in his later years.
>
> Of course he did.
>
> As do we all.
>
> Jesus folks.
>
> Jesus. He saves
What bank does he use? And could you be more specific? There are a
lot of hombres named Jesus in my neighborhood.
Lizz Holmans
Jesus saves, but Moses invests.
Lizz 'Interesting' Holmans
--
Boys is easier, and if you have sons it's worth trying for three.
Nanny Ogg
Shorty Blackwell
> New York Post is reporting that Dr. Gil Lederman
> has now been "censured, reprimanded and ordered
> to pay a $5,000 fine for what the department deemed
> a violation of patient confidentiality when the Beatle
> died two years ago".
Right. What did he say? "George felt no fear as he was dying" or
something to that effect? Personally, I think people all over the
world needed to hear that at the time, and I think that's why the fine
is so small. (I'd actually first heard the fine was a mere $3K.)
no posessions
Dont ever mock religion.
Ever.
Got that?
Good.
Have a God day.
Ryno On A G-String
wrote:
[Liberal use of Snippo, the Wonder Bandwidth Extender]
>thats makes two of us my friend. i feel your religious.
Leave his religious *alone*! That's only to be felt by Brother
Obnoxious on specific days during Lent.
>god bless you.
And may your favour you with more sense than appears to be the case so
far.
Ryno On A G-String
wrote:
>hennes...@yahoo.com (Teddy) wrote in message news:<5d47aa5.03120...@posting.google.com>...
>> Actually Ryno <correspondence...@eotworld.com> wrote in message news:<tjtatv4jngvi1gumf...@4ax.com>...
>> > On 8 Dec 2003 22:23:35 -0800, mikep...@yahoo.com (no posessions)
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >"Stephen Hobbs TPG" <smh...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<3fd4...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
>> > >> Harrison chanting Hari Krishna is hardly the act of a Christian.
>> > >
>> > >his lips might of said hare krishna.
>> > >
>> > >but his soul cried out for jesus.
>> > >
>> > >'nuff said
>> >
>> > Did his phone call out for pizza?
>>
>> What did his T-shirt say?
>
>Dont ever mock religion.
>
>Ever.
I suppose, then, that your deity has given you enough facts to back
the ridiculous statement you made abiout George.
The fragments I vaguely remember of my theological studies would seem
to indicate that your god is in favour of free choice. If George chose
to follow Krishna, then that is what George chose.
A god that makes robots of people is a god with a huge inferiority
complex.
>Got that?
>
>Good.
>
>Have a God day.
Today is Wednesday in my part of the world. It is named for Woden.
BeatleMac
> John Whelan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Donna, it's not about whether the Doctor is nice or not as
> > a person,
>
> Did I say that it was? I just mentioned it as a personal note.
>
>
> > it about a code of medical ethics they must
> > follow for George's "emotional" health is as equally
> > important as "physical" health.
>
> I never said that he shouldn't have followed the rules, although I
> didn't read anywhere that it also specifically means that one can't talk
> about one's emotional health. He got in trouble by "revealing
> personally identifiable information"
>
>
When you say "one can't talk about one's emotional health"
you're talking about the *patient's* emotional health. The
man is not a psychiatrist or psychologist, and if he were,
he would be forbidden to discuss his patient's state, too!
As for Dr. L's motivation for giving out his phone number,
I think you're being a bit idealistic. If you check the Dr.'s
letterhead, you'll probably find the word "corporation" some
where in there.
Olivia's husband's death and his attitude toward death itself
was nobody's business but hers. Period.
I myself was victimized by being "quoted" on the subject
of George's health during a telephone interview with Terry Ott
in April of 1999. I absolutely refused to comment on the
subject, despite all kinds of email and phone pressure.
So this creep Ott snuck into the control room at the radio
station after the engineer had left, and put words into my
mouth which I never spoke, and never would speak for
public attribution.
Doesn't matter now. George is gone.
This Dr. is lucky to have gotten off with such a small fine.
Treating celebrities is big business for such doctors.
Francie Schwartz
www.petcondolences.com