Does Michael Jackson own Penny Lane?
The Walrus was Danny
Lane is still owned by Dick James because his daughter liked it or
something, so when he sold all the rights to ATV he kept Penny Lane, and
subsequently when Whacko bought the ATV portfolio it didn't include Penny
Lane. Have I imagined this? Am I (as ever) talking out of my arse?
Danny
RichL
news:VmWfj.28297$KC3....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
That was mentioned here in RMB a few months ago. I don't know if it's true
or not, though.
Stephen X. Carter
It's the one formerly Northern Song that he does not have an involvement
with.
At one stage in the history of Northern Songs, a significant part of it
was owned (perhaps all of it??) by an Australian speculator called
Rupert Holmes A'Court.
When he agreed to sell his share, as part of the deal he asked to be
allowed to keep ownership of one of the songs, and he chose 'Penny
Lane'.
He died a while back and the ownership was left to his daughter - who
contrary to rumours is NOT called Penny.
Rupert's widow, Janet, lives in Western Australia and is a significant
patron of all things good and artistic and is considered an all round
splendid person.
--
steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
"Stephen X. Carter" <steve@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:47803c4f.346279@localhost...
Wrong. Sony/Jackson own the entire Nothern songs catalog. Mostly Sony now.
brilton
That's Robert Holmes A Court, not Rupert. Maybe you were thinking of
Rupert Murdoch?
Dimitrios Paskoudniakis
"Sally Sue Brown" <Sally S...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ggXfj.2573$jJ5....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
Yes, but I don't think that catalog includes Love Me Do/PS I Love You, which
are the two songs actually owned by Lennon/McCartney? This is why in the
1980s, Paul wrote "PS Love Me Do".
Baldoni
I was going to reply that Penny Lane is a big place for even him to
own. Then the penny dropped (no pun), I was reading something about
your question somewhere but I can't think where.
One of the broadsheets I am sure !
--
Count Baldoni
Baldoni
It would be hard to confuse that old bastard with anyone else. He was
up to his neck in arms smuggling years ago.
--
Count Baldoni
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <gree...@yeahright.com> wrote in message
news:ZbOdnab7DPbe1x3a...@comcast.com...
Not part of the Northern Songs Cat.
Well known fact.
Paul owns those.
comi...@hotmail.com
> Wrong. Sony/Jackson own the entire Nothern songs catalog. Mostly Sony now.
Not mostly Sony -- all Sony. Michael sold half of the rights to Sony to
get money to pay his lawyers the first time around. He used the other
half as collateral against an advance the second time around, and when
Sony thought his debts exceeded his revenue, they came to collect.
Sony will continue to own Northern Songs' holdings until 2018, at
which point -- under the Bono clause of the copyright extension act --
Lennon, McCartney and/or their immediate families can file to have the
copyrights filed back upon written request.
Of course, they'd then have to go through the courts, but I doubt the
Lennon-McCartney/McCartney-Lennon tunes are going to be as hard to
prove ownership of as, say, Seigel's family is over Clark Kent, Lois
Lane and The Daily Planet.
Stephen X. Carter
S...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"Stephen X. Carter" <steve@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:47803c4f.346279@localhost...
>> On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:43:17 GMT, "The Walrus was Danny"
>> <dannyist...@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I seem to recall in the Radio 4 prog last year that they said that Penny
>> >Lane is still owned by Dick James because his daughter liked it or
>> >something, so when he sold all the rights to ATV he kept Penny Lane, and
>> >subsequently when Whacko bought the ATV portfolio it didn't include Penny
>> >Lane. Have I imagined this? Am I (as ever) talking out of my arse?
>>
>> It's the one formerly Northern Song that he does not have an involvement
>> with.
>>
>> At one stage in the history of Northern Songs, a significant part of it
>> was owned (perhaps all of it??) by an Australian speculator called
>> Rupert Holmes A'Court.
>>
>> When he agreed to sell his share, as part of the deal he asked to be
>> allowed to keep ownership of one of the songs, and he chose 'Penny
>> Lane'.
>>
>> He died a while back and the ownership was left to his daughter - who
>> contrary to rumours is NOT called Penny.
>>
>> Rupert's widow, Janet, lives in Western Australia and is a significant
>> patron of all things good and artistic and is considered an all round
>> splendid person.
>Wrong. Sony/Jackson own the entire Nothern songs catalog. Mostly Sony now.
Hmmm....
I very clearly recall a long interview on the radio here (Perth, Western
Australia) with Janet Holmes A'Court where she told this tale. I can't
find any trace on the internet of that show.
Whilst it's certainly true that the credits on the "1" album show no
trace at all of this, see these URL's for some backup of what I'm
saying:
<http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080102/ten-uk-beatles-d3877cb_1.html>
The above article would actually appear to be from Reuters, so arguably
has a plausible pedigree. :-)
<http://www.amazon.com/review/product/184609237X?showViewpoints=1>
<http://www.iamthebeatles.com/article1042.html>
See credits at end.
So, I stand by my original posting, but admit that I can't locate
irrefutable proof (although the current Reuters based reports share my
understanding) - so it may be case for Snopes!
However, Perth is quite a small place (1.8m) and who knows I may bump
into Janet at an event of some sort (not impossible as I'm having tea
this afternoon with someone who catalogued her collection of fine
fabric), and will make a note of asking her. :-))
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
There are 4 songs incl the above also PS I Love you, Ask Me why and
another that escapes me.
Stephen X. Carter
wrote:
>Stephen X. Carter wrote:
>> At one stage in the history of Northern Songs, a significant part of it
>> was owned (perhaps all of it??) by an Australian speculator called
>> Rupert Holmes A'Court.
>> Rupert's widow, Janet, lives in Western Australia and is a significant
>> patron of all things good and artistic and is considered an all round
>> splendid person.
>That's Robert Holmes A Court, not Rupert. Maybe you were thinking of
>Rupert Murdoch?
Yup, Correction accepted. These multi-millionaires are oh so easy to
confuse! :-)
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
While the Jackson-Sony collection includes practically all of the Beatles'
greatest hits, they don't have every little thing. Paul McCartney bought the
rights to "Love Me Do," "Please, Please Me," "P.S. I Love You," and "Tell Me
Why." Northern Songs never owned these early tunes, so they weren't included
in the ATV deal.
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
Tell Me Why?
HA!
Stephen X. Carter
wrote:
>
>So, I stand by my original posting, but admit that I can't locate
>irrefutable proof (although the current Reuters based reports share my
>understanding) - so it may be case for Snopes!
PS. Where's Alan Kozinn when he's needed! :-))
modern
I'm aware of a story like this too, it's probably true.
Will attempt to find out.
modern
formed by Jackson, creating a new entity: Sony/ATV Music Publishing.
That publishing company includes the Northern Songs catalogue that
contains 259 copyrights by Lennon and McCartney. These songs essentially
represent everything recorded under the Beatles name by Lennon and
McCartney, except for five songs: their first two U.K. singles, "Love Me
Do"/"P.S. I Love You" and "Please Please Me"/"Ask Me Why," and "Penny
Lane," "gifted" by Jackson to Holmes a Court under a specific provision
of Jackson's purchase of the ATV catalogue.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080102/11/p/15ett.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/01/AR2008010101715_2.html
Another point is that Holmes a Court in Australia was the person
who sold what he had to Jackson. He gave his daughter or wife or
someone their choice of Beatle's songs though, which was Penny Lane,
which Jackson might never have actually owned.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.beatles/msg/c8b8735315f87508
The most eye-opening element of this excellent book is the 1982-1985
period when ATV was purchased/owned/run by a ruthless millionaire from
Australia named Robert Holmes a Court. So little has been previously
known of this period until now -- but it's Holmes a Court who tears the
ATV empire apart and sells off its assets for a quick (and substantial)
profit, leaving the entire staff of ATV Music out of work, and selling
the ATV Music publishing catalogs (which includes Nothern Songs) to
Michael Jackson (though forcing him to "gift" the rights to "Penny Lane"
to his daugher - who still owns it today!).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Northern-Songs-Beatles-Songwriting-Empire/dp/184609237X
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
"modern" <iden...@position.net> wrote in message
news:flppsk$lkq$1...@aioe.org...
Perfect example of "Don't buy everything one gets off every web site as the
Gospel."
Got some swamp land down in Florida for sale.
-SSB
Stephen X. Carter
wrote:
>The Walrus was Danny wrote:
>> I seem to recall in the Radio 4 prog last year that they said that Penny
>> Lane is still owned by Dick James because his daughter liked it or
>> something, so when he sold all the rights to ATV he kept Penny Lane, and
>> subsequently when Whacko bought the ATV portfolio it didn't include Penny
>> Lane. Have I imagined this? Am I (as ever) talking out of my arse?
>>
>> Danny
>>
>>
>In 1995, Sony came into the picture, forming a joint venture with trusts
>formed by Jackson, creating a new entity: Sony/ATV Music Publishing.
>That publishing company includes the Northern Songs catalogue that
>contains 259 copyrights by Lennon and McCartney. These songs essentially
>represent everything recorded under the Beatles name by Lennon and
>McCartney, except for five songs: their first two U.K. singles, "Love Me
>Do"/"P.S. I Love You" and "Please Please Me"/"Ask Me Why," and "Penny
>Lane," "gifted" by Jackson to Holmes a Court under a specific provision
>of Jackson's purchase of the ATV catalogue.
>http://au.news.yahoo.com/080102/11/p/15ett.html
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/01/AR2008010101715_2.html
The above URL is simply Yet Another Copy of the Reuters article I
mention.
To fully confirm (or refute) this story another and better source is
The Walrus was Danny
> to his neck in arms smuggling years ago.
In wikipaedophile it mentions that he persuaded Whacko to come to Perth as
part of the deal but nothing about Penny Lane.
Tell me Why? I hadn't heard about the Tell Me Why story before.....or the
Please please me one either for that matter. Bit dubious about that one....
Danny
Stephen X. Carter
<dannyist...@tesco.net> wrote:
>Tell me Why? I hadn't heard about the Tell Me Why story before.....or the
>Please please me one either for that matter. Bit dubious about that one....
That bit is unequivocally true.
It's because they were the first two singles, written and published
before Brian learnt about publishing etc etc.
Nice little earner for Dick James at the time no doubt.
brilton
> On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 08:51:38 GMT, "The Walrus was Danny"
> <dannyist...@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Tell me Why? I hadn't heard about the Tell Me Why story before.....or the
>> Please please me one either for that matter. Bit dubious about that one....
>>
>
> That bit is unequivocally true.
>
> It's because they were the first two singles, written and published
> before Brian learnt about publishing etc etc.
>
> Nice little earner for Dick James at the time no doubt.
>
Could it be "Ask Me Why", not "Tell Me Why"?
(Sorry Stephen, I don't mean to be stalking you around the place
attempting to correct you!)
The Walrus was Danny
I knew about LMD but not about PPM......and yes I can see why it would be
Ask Me Why since that was the b side to PPM......that's why I was confused
when the previous poster said "Tell me Why"!!!
Danny
fatt...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "Sally Sue Brown" <Sally S...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagenews:ggXfj.2573$jJ5....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, I think there are one or two very early Beatles songs which Paul
managed to own.
fatt...@yahoo.com
wrote:
I read that in a couple of sources . . . . that Paul does own two or
three of some very early Beatles songs.
modern
Well I found all this in about 10 minutes in a web search.
I did include some hearsay from a couple of forum-type pages.
The opinion that Robert Holmes a Court's daughter owns Penny Lane seems
held by some,
but I couldn't find anything verifiable. Plus I've known this for some
time myself, but it could all be mass delusion for all I know.
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
You've found some hearsay type evidence. What I would have to see to be 100%
convinced is the actually or copy of the contract. Doubt that will happen.
Or at least a major player saying it was so.
Sue@sbcglobal.net Sally Sue Brown
Found this:
Michael Jackson had out-bid Paul McCartney after Sir tried to buy back the
rights to 259 songs, now controlled by Sony/ATV. Only five Lennon/McCartney
songs weren't included in the Sony/ATV holding: Love Me Do, P.S. I Love You,
Please Please Me, Ask Me Why and Penny Lane. Jackson, by the way, sold the
right to give permission a while ago, though he benefits from royalties.
http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/music/money-cant-buy-me-love-or-can-it-1258253.html
comi...@hotmail.com
> Yes, I think there are one or two very early Beatles songs which Paul
> managed to own.
If it predates Dick James suggesting the formation of Northern Songs,
then chances are quite strong that the early songs would have been
copyrighted with the company Paul's dad had him form to protect "Hot
As Sun" back in 1960. It probably wouldn't have been until the 70s
when the company became McCartney Productions (later MPL) that an
accounting of songs would have revealed Paul's ownership of these four.
JNugent
> "Stephen X. Carter" <steve@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:47803c4f.346279@localhost...
>
>>On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:43:17 GMT, "The Walrus was Danny"
>>
>>
>>>I seem to recall in the Radio 4 prog last year that they said that Penny
>>>Lane is still owned by Dick James because his daughter liked it or
>>>something, so when he sold all the rights to ATV he kept Penny Lane, and
>>>subsequently when Whacko bought the ATV portfolio it didn't include Penny
>>>Lane. Have I imagined this? Am I (as ever) talking out of my arse?
>>
>>with.
>>
>>At one stage in the history of Northern Songs, a significant part of it
>>was owned (perhaps all of it??) by an Australian speculator called
>>Rupert Holmes A'Court.
>>
>>When he agreed to sell his share, as part of the deal he asked to be
>>allowed to keep ownership of one of the songs, and he chose 'Penny
>>Lane'.
>>
>>He died a while back and the ownership was left to his daughter - who
>>contrary to rumours is NOT called Penny.
>>
>>Rupert's widow, Janet, lives in Western Australia and is a significant
>>patron of all things good and artistic and is considered an all round
>>splendid person.
>>
>>--
>>steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
>>Nothing is Beatle Proof!!
>
>
> Wrong. Sony/Jackson own the entire Nothern songs catalog. Mostly Sony now.
I've heard the Holmes A'Court story before and have no reason to
disbelieve it. His name, BTW, was "Robert", not "Rupert".
JNugent
On the original red-label 45 (which I bought in November 1962 and
still have), those two songs are listed as published by "Ardmore and
Beechwood" (which I understand was owned by EMI).
>
>
JNugent
>>>Yes, but I don't think that catalog includes Love Me Do/PS I Love You,
>>>which are the two songs actually owned by Lennon/McCartney? This is
>>>why in the 1980s, Paul wrote "PS Love Me Do".
>>Not part of the Northern Songs Cat.
>>Well known fact.
>>Paul owns those.
> There are 4 songs incl the above also PS I Love you, Ask Me why and
> another that escapes me.
The Beatles' first two UK singles were not published by Northern Songs
(which did not exist at the time).
"Love Me Do" / "PS I Love You" were published by Ardmore and Beechwood
(EMI), and "Please Please Me" / "Ask Me Why" were published by Dick
James Music.
Stephen X. Carter
S...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[snips]
>You've found some hearsay type evidence. What I would have to see to be 100%
>convinced is the actually or copy of the contract. Doubt that will happen.
>Or at least a major player saying it was so.
I have no problem with that essence of that - although I have some
doubts that we'll ever see the actual Contract! :-)
I'm frustrated by the fact that I believe I've heard Janet Holmes
A'Court talking about it (ie one of the major players), but can't find
any proof at all of that.
However, if anyone reading has access to, or knows where to find online
some *recently* published sheet music, then that may help settle this.
If I get a chance in the next few days I'll peek in a local music
store....
Snopes would categorise this (ownership of the "Penny Lane" song) as
"Undetermined" I suspect.)