Count in to "All My Loving"
David Jeffrey Coyle
On every other Beatle out-take I've ever heard (live or studio) where there
is a count-down included, it is a conventional "1-2-3-4" countdown (excluding
"sugarplum fairy" on Day In The Life).
However, every time I hear an outtake of "All My Loving," I hear Paul shout
out "1-2-3-4-5!" What is with the extra count? This is especially noticeable in
their performance of the song on the Ed Sullivan Show.
Don't ask me to be more specific on what versions I've heard this on, I just
know I've heard the count-in to 5 on more than one version.
--
|| DAVID J. COYLE / E-Mail: dc33...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu ||
|| Diversified Communications / "Sunset doesn't last all evening..." ||
|| Ohio University / --George Harrison, 1970 ||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Barnes
> quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
> this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
> 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
This is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, right? "All My Loving" is
in 4/4. The German version of the original recording has 5 taps on
a closed hi-hat as a count in. The reason for 5 beats is that the
first word -- "Close..." -- starts on 3 of the 4/4 measure. Thus,
to count off the tune, you would need to count "one two." But, as
is common with older recordings, they tried to leave a little space
to make a clean edit. This requires that a lead-in measure be
counted off to get a good feel for the timing. So, to be accurate,
the count in would be "one two three four one [two]" with the second
"two" being silent.
Dig?
Timothy A. Meushaw
: Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
: this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
: 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
I'm afraid I must disagree. I've always counted it in 4, with the two
lead-in beats in the beginning. If you count it like Paul does, you
get 1-2-3-4-5-<space>-"Close"-"your" (8 beats total), and the song
continues in 4/4 time. Start counting, in 4, on the third beat of the
song, and tell me which feels more natural in THAT case. :-)
--
------------------------
Timothy A. Meushaw http://umbc.edu/~tmeush1/ tme...@gl.umbc.edu
University of Maryland, Baltimore County Member, Team OS/2
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." (John Lennon)
rr...@bssv01.hac.com
> However, every time I hear an outtake of "All My Loving," I hear Paul shout
> out "1-2-3-4-5!" What is with the extra count? This is especially noticeable i
The song begins on beat "7" ("Close...") if you think in terms of 8 beats.
The "6" beat is hushed.
The alternative wound have been to think in terms of 4 beats, with the
song beginning on "3", with "2" hushed. Then the count in would have
been "1........Close your eyes..!"
=rrome ================================================================
"Ooh! Chatter on, son, chatter on! A touch o' the writer's cramp
will soon sort YOU out!"
Fernando Luna
almost safely say that the Beatles did not experiment with complex time
signatures until well into 1965 and beyond... What's confusing to many
people about the way Paul counts into this song (notably on the Ed
Sullivan Show "1-2-3-4-5") is that this song begins in the MIDDLE of the
measure. (A common enough occurence in music).
4/4 time means that there are 4 beats to a measure and that one quarter
note(4) is equal to one beat... Thus...
(Counting in 4/4 time)
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
(Paul's counting as he starts the song...)
"1 2 3 4 5 Close your eyes..."
5/4 time, as Carl Merson alludes to, is never present in the song.. (A good
example of 5/4 time is the theme song to "Mission:Impossible" or "Tom
Sawyer" by Rush)
The basic fact of the matter is that counting to 5 was easier and more
natural to someone like the Paul McCartney of 1964 who had had no
classical training... or for that matter the rest of the Beatles...
Actually, you might even say that the song could be a veerrrrrry fast 6/8...
(If you were counting the triplets that were being strummed on the guitar
) ;)
*****************************************************************************
Fernando Luna fe...@eskimo.com
Kent, WA USA http://www.eskimo.com/~fern/
*****************************************************************************
Carl Merson
Doerr David W 810-575-4126
: Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
: this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
: 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
Four beats feels more natural to me. The rhythm guitar plays eight-note
triplets, I think. Could that be what you are thinking of?
I've seen the Ed Sullivan performance plenty of times, but I've never
payed particular attention to the count-in. Could it be that Paul
has to take a breath and sing two beats before the others start playing?
Like this:
BAR 1 BAR 2 BAR 3
The quarter-note beats are:
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Paul says:
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (breath in) (Close) (your) (eyes ) (and) ...
The instruments play:
F#m
-Dave
The Golden Greek
sugarplum fairy that you mention?
Greg Christakos
Fernando Luna
> Wait just a minute here!!! This song, if nothing is straight 4/4... I can
> almost safely say that the Beatles did not experiment with complex time
> signatures until well into 1965 and beyond... What's confusing to many
> people about the way Paul counts into this song (notably on the Ed
> Sullivan Show "1-2-3-4-5") is that this song begins in the MIDDLE of the
> measure. (A common enough occurence in music).
>
>
> 4/4 time means that there are 4 beats to a measure and that one quarter
> note(4) is equal to one beat... Thus...
>
> (Counting in 4/4 time)
> 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
> (Paul's counting as he starts the song...)
> "1 2 3 4 5 Close your eyes..."
>
> 5/4 time, as Carl Merson alludes to, is never present in the song.. (A good
> example of 5/4 time is the theme song to "Mission:Impossible" or "Tom
> Sawyer" by Rush)
Sorry, made one mistake here...."Tom Sawyer" is in 7/4 time... the theme
from Mission:Impossible IS 5/4 though... :)
>
> The basic fact of the matter is that counting to 5 was easier and more
> natural to someone like the Paul McCartney of 1964 who had had no
> classical training... or for that matter the rest of the Beatles...
>
>
> Actually, you might even say that the song could be a veerrrrrry fast 6/8...
> (If you were counting the triplets that were being strummed on the guitar
> ) ;)
>
> On 29 Jun 1995, Timothy A. Meushaw wrote:
>
> > Carl Merson (cme...@nova.umuc.edu) wrote:
> > : Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
> > : quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
> > : this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
> > : 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
> >
> > I'm afraid I must disagree. I've always counted it in 4, with the two
> > lead-in beats in the beginning. If you count it like Paul does, you
> > get 1-2-3-4-5-<space>-"Close"-"your" (8 beats total), and the song
> > continues in 4/4 time. Start counting, in 4, on the third beat of the
> > song, and tell me which feels more natural in THAT case. :-)
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------
> > Timothy A. Meushaw http://umbc.edu/~tmeush1/ tme...@gl.umbc.edu
> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County Member, Team OS/2
> > "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." (John Lennon)
> >
> >
>
> *****************************************************************************
> Fernando Luna fe...@eskimo.com
> Kent, WA USA http://www.eskimo.com/~fern/
> *****************************************************************************
>
>
>
*****************************************************************************
Fernando Luna fe...@eskimo.com
Kent, WA USA http://www.eskimo.com/~fern/
*****************************************************************************
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Finagle's Creed:
Science is true. Don't be misled by facts.
Bruce Dumes
: However, every time I hear an outtake of "All My Loving," I hear Paul shout
: out "1-2-3-4-5!" What is with the extra count? This is especially noticeable in
: their performance of the song on the Ed Sullivan Show.
The reason for the "extra count" is that Paul doesn't start singing on
"the one" (ie the first beat in the measure). The melody starts on
what is known as a pickup beat. The melody actually starts on beat 3.
--
Bruce Dumes b...@ici.net or du...@hks.com
WWW Home Page http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/bad/bad.html
The Official Move Home Page http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/bad/move.html
"I've got to have special food fed to me for me thoughts"
Andy Sandler
: Carl Merson (cme...@nova.umuc.edu) wrote:
: : Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
: : quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
: : this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
: : 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
: Certainly not!!!
: There have been a few pop songs in 5/4, like "Living In The Past" by
: Jethro Tull, but AML is *most certainly* NOT in 5/4!!! Please see my
: earlier explanation on this. It is simply a pickup beat.
: Bruce
: --
: Bruce Dumes b...@ici.net or du...@hks.com
: WWW Home Page http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/bad/bad.html
: The Official Move Home Page http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/bad/move.html
: "I've got to have special food fed to me for me thoughts"
A couplea things. I know not much about time signatures, but the count is
a simple matter of counting out every beat: "1-2-3-4-5-and-Close your
eyes, etc...I first heard the count not verbally but done by Ringo on the
high-hats on a German imported LP of With The Beatles (On the EMI-Odeon
label). I know it exists elsewhere on vinyl as well...happy hunting? Now
how about that missing verse to "I'll Cry Instead"?
Cheers!
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tripod __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
tri...@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Jeffrey Coyle
Thanks for the answers. I will have to take your word for it, since my sense
of rhythm isn't very good. Reading music and time signatures is not my strong
point. However, I could've gotten a clue from the "hi-hat" German version of
the song. I know I've heard it...
Notice in the "Beatles Live" video that Paul is cued in on "Long Tall Sally"
with three bursts from the guitar. I always wondered how they worked that out.
Joseph Brennan
>A couplea things. I know not much about time signatures, but the count is
>a simple matter of counting out every beat: "1-2-3-4-5-and-Close your
>eyes, etc...I first heard the count not verbally but done by Ringo on the
>high-hats on a German imported LP of With The Beatles (On the EMI-Odeon
>label). I know it exists elsewhere on vinyl as well...
Capitol's "Rarities" LP has it, probably easier for US fans to obtain.
>Now how about that missing verse to "I'll Cry Instead"?
I think the short versions are complete and that the long version has
the verse added from another take. It sounds different. Real evidence
is lacking and the studio notations Mark Lewisohn saw didn't explain it.
Joe Brennan Columbia University in the City of New York
bre...@columbia.edu ("affiliation shown for identification only")
http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles.html
John P. Wangermann
Andy Sandler <tri...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Bruce Dumes (b...@ici.net) wrote:
>: Carl Merson (cme...@nova.umuc.edu) wrote:
>: : Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
>: : quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
>: : this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
>: : 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
>
>: Certainly not!!!
>
>: There have been a few pop songs in 5/4, like "Living In The Past" by
>: Jethro Tull, but AML is *most certainly* NOT in 5/4!!! Please see my
>: earlier explanation on this. It is simply a pickup beat.
>
>a simple matter of counting out every beat: "1-2-3-4-5-and-Close your
>eyes, etc...I first heard the count not verbally but done by Ringo on the
Nope - it's definitely in 4/4. Most people woould count in as:
"1-2-3-4-1-2-Close Your .."
Eyes, being the first beat of the next bar.
Best known example of 5/4 is probably "Take 5" by Dave Brubeck. If you
can't feel the difference between that and "All my loving" then we can't
help!
John Wangermann
Bruce Dumes
: Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
: quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
: this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
: 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
Certainly not!!!
There have been a few pop songs in 5/4, like "Living In The Past" by
Jethro Tull, but AML is *most certainly* NOT in 5/4!!! Please see my
earlier explanation on this. It is simply a pickup beat.
Bruce
Dave McCullough
>>label). I know it exists elsewhere on vinyl as well...
> Capitol's "Rarities" LP has it, probably easier for US fans to obtain.
There is no version of All My Loving on the US Rarities album.
Dave Haber
>From: Dave.Mc...@f0.n3.z609.fidonet.org (Dave McCullough)
>Date: 04 Jul 95 22:49:00
>Subject: Count in to "All My Loving"
You can, however, hear a sound clip of All My Loving with Ringo's high-hat
intro, from the German Greatest Hits LP, in a Stereo WAV file, on my WWW
Beatles page, in the "You Can't Do That" section. See below for access
instructions.
-Dave
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Dave Haber
>From: sa...@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (saki)
>Subject: Re: Count in to "All My Loving"
>Date: 5 Jul 1995 23:17:00 GMT
>In article <dhaber.81...@primenet.com> dha...@primenet.com (Dave Haber)
>writes:
>>In article <cfe_950...@e-tech.havr.ma.us>
>Dave.Mc...@f0.n3.z609.fidonet.org (Dave McCullough) writes:
>>>From: Dave.Mc...@f0.n3.z609.fidonet.org (Dave McCullough)
>>>Date: 04 Jul 95 22:49:00
>>>Subject: Count in to "All My Loving"
>>
>>> >>eyes, etc...I first heard the count not verbally but done by Ringo on the
>>> >>high-hats on a German imported LP of With The Beatles (On the EMI-Odeon
>>> >>label). I know it exists elsewhere on vinyl as well...
>>
>>> > Capitol's "Rarities" LP has it, probably easier for US fans to obtain.
>>
>>>There is no version of All My Loving on the US Rarities album.
>I wonder if the mystery arises from the existence of *two* collections
>called "Rarities"? The U.S. "Rarities" was an official Parlophone/Capitol
>release (with slight differences in U.S. and UK releases). But there's
>also a promotional collection by Westwood One called "Rarities", including
>many of the anomalous variants oft-discussed in these environs. The hi-hat
>version of "All My Loving" is part of this collection, though to my ears
>it sounds a trifle edited on...I'm not sure why this would be done.
>I believe that Joe Brennan mentioned some time ago that the version found
>on the German compilation does not sound edited. I don't own that version
>and haven't heard it myself.
Yes, Saki, everything you said is correct. I own a CD boot of the Westwood
One Rarities CD, called "All Too Much". It includes the "fake" hi-hat
version. It sticks out like a sore-thumb, because the real version goes:
tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-(breath)-Close-your-eyes...
The edited fake has silence where Paul's breath should be. The silence is
also, to my ears, a hair too short. That's probably what makes it sound fake
the most.
Also, on the real version, which can be found on the LP "The Beatles
Greatest", EMI-Electrola 1C-072-04-207, (Germany), the high-hat is on the
channel opposite Paul's vocal. On the fake version, the high hat and the
vocal are on the same channel.
The Westwood One CD/All Too Much boot contains other fakes, such as the
stereo Penny Lane with the final horn coda, and the stereo I Am The Walrus
with the extra measure after "I'm Crying", but is interesting for other
reasons, such as My Bonnie with Tony Sheridan's german intro and the sometimes
cool and sometimes horrendous Beatles Movie Medley.
saki
>In article <cfe_950...@e-tech.havr.ma.us> Dave.Mc...@f0.n3.z609.fidonet.org (Dave McCullough) writes:
>>From: Dave.Mc...@f0.n3.z609.fidonet.org (Dave McCullough)
>>Date: 04 Jul 95 22:49:00
>>Subject: Count in to "All My Loving"
>
>> >>eyes, etc...I first heard the count not verbally but done by Ringo on the
>> >>high-hats on a German imported LP of With The Beatles (On the EMI-Odeon
>> >>label). I know it exists elsewhere on vinyl as well...
>
>> > Capitol's "Rarities" LP has it, probably easier for US fans to obtain.
>
>>There is no version of All My Loving on the US Rarities album.
>
>intro, from the German Greatest Hits LP, in a Stereo WAV file, on my WWW
I wonder if the mystery arises from the existence of *two* collections
called "Rarities"? The U.S. "Rarities" was an official Parlophone/Capitol
release (with slight differences in U.S. and UK releases). But there's
also a promotional collection by Westwood One called "Rarities", including
many of the anomalous variants oft-discussed in these environs. The hi-hat
version of "All My Loving" is part of this collection, though to my ears
it sounds a trifle edited on...I'm not sure why this would be done.
I believe that Joe Brennan mentioned some time ago that the version found
on the German compilation does not sound edited. I don't own that version
and haven't heard it myself.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
"What are they like, these pale-faced darlings of Merseyside?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
sa...@evolution.bchs.uh.edu
Andy Sandler
: Dave, you're right about the spurious nature of the Westwood One version
: of
: "All My Loving". Note that the hi-hat count-in is on one channel, while
: the rest of the drum track is on the other channel. There would be no
: sensible reason for George and Norman to suddenly move the drums from one
: channel to the other. I have a genuine version on a German (I think, off
: the top of my head) greatest hits collection, and the hi-hat is on the
: same (left) channel as the rest of the drum track. I like it. It adds to
: the track, like the count-in on "I Saw Her Standing There".
: SteveRoy
: -
: STEPHEN ROY SQV...@prodigy.com
This is too cool; I have stumbled upon a buncha folks who are as anal
when listening to Beatles recordings as I am!
Glad to know you guys!
Andy
--
Joseph Brennan
> > Capitol's "Rarities" LP has it, probably easier for US fans to obtain.
>There is no version of All My Loving on the US Rarities album.
Quite right. Every time I don't actually look 'em up... Here is
where the hi-hat version really is:
Germany: Odeon STO 83 568 With the Beatles 1963, Odeon SMO 83 991 (later
1C 062-04 207) Beatles Greatest 1965.
Holland: Odeon OMHS 3001 Beatles Greatest 1967.
Of those, I've most often seen copies of the Holland version here in
New York shops.
Note, the Westwood One CD made "for radio stations" has a semi-forgery
made from the intro off one of the above sources plus the main part of
the song from a different source. The real thing has not only 5 taps
in the left channel, where the drums are, but also an intake of breath
in the right channel, making the first two measures very nearly
tap tap tap tap tap breath Close your
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
where the breath isn't meant to mark time, but just about does.
Stephen Roy
of
Timothy P. Sipsey x3375
>Jethro Tull, but AML is *most certainly* NOT in 5/4!!! Please see my
>earlier explanation on this. It is simply a pickup beat.
>
Let's not forget the middle instrumental part of "Within You, Without You"
which is in 5/4. George Harrison has said that is his favorite part of the
song.
Tim Sipsey
richard thomas
hzl...@elec.mid.gmeds.com (Doerr David W 810-575-4126) said:-
>Carl Merson (cme...@nova.umuc.edu) wrote:
>: Paul counts in "All My Loving" 1-2-3-4-5 because the song is in 5/4 time,
>: quite simply. Most pop songs are in 3/4 (waltz) or 4/4 time. To clarify
>: this, listen to the song and try counting the song in 4 beats and then in
>: 5 and see which feels more natural. (:)
>
>Four beats feels more natural to me. The rhythm guitar plays eight-note
>triplets, I think. Could that be what you are thinking of?
>
>I've seen the Ed Sullivan performance plenty of times, but I've never
>payed particular attention to the count-in. Could it be that Paul
>has to take a breath and sing two beats before the others start playing?
>
>Like this:
> BAR 1 BAR 2 BAR 3
>The quarter-note beats are:
> 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
>Paul says:
> (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (breath in) (Close) (your) (eyes ) (and) ...
>The instruments play:
> F#m
>
>-Dave
You think "all my loving" is in 5/4?.... i'm not gonna let you play in my band!
__
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
pl...@pavilion.co.uk
(richard thomas)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Stahley
: Quite right. Every time I don't actually look 'em up... Here is
: where the hi-hat version really is:
: Germany: Odeon STO 83 568 With the Beatles 1963, Odeon SMO 83 991 (later
: 1C 062-04 207) Beatles Greatest 1965.
: Holland: Odeon OMHS 3001 Beatles Greatest 1967.
And the (UK) World Records eight-album set "The Beatles Box" (SM 701-SM 708).
I just checked. It's the real version (with breath).
--
__ __
._) _) bo...@primenet.com
__)__) fenix, azirona Why is a raven like a writing desk?