what is rock?

alejandro de tacobell

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Jul 18, 2005, 3:03:56 PM7/18/05

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we usually define rock music as something that resulted from the fusion
of hillbilly twiddling and negro twaddling. this largely holds true for
rock 'n' roll. and, it's also true of much of rock music. the problem
is it simply doesn't apply to much else of rock.
because of its name, we tend to think 'rock' simply grew out of 'rock n
roll'. problem is this is only half-true. much of rock had little or
nothing to do with rock no roll, hillbilly music, or negro stuff. but,
watch any documentary on rock music, they outline the same lineage and
simplify the true nature of rock music.
perhaps, the best way to correct this simplication is to change the
name of 'rock'.

indeed, what is 'rock', really? above all, it seems to be youthful
music--by youths or youthful souls--emanating naturally and freely from
individual artists expressing something personal and direct. we usually
say it arose from eclecticism but this is somewhat misleading; rock is
more than rock n roll plus some other stuff added later on; often, it
rejects rock n roll--and its sources--entirely. other times, it's more
uniquely personal--even private--than a jumble of various influences.
above all, it's the music of youthful individuality. as such, it can be
just about anything. it's usually loud and eloquent, but not always in
the hillbilly, negroish, or rock n roll-ish way.

one may even say rock music was the FIRST true individual music that
ever existed. all previous musical forms belonged to certain strict
categories. while there always had been individual expression and
innovation in other musical forms, musical artists adhered to the
basic tradition, basic category. so, even the most eccentric jazz
artist was a jazz artist. even the most innovative bluesman was a
bluesman. even the most daring and rebellious classical artist was a
classical artist. even the most weird modern music guy was a modern
music guy; indeed, most avant garde serious music follow certain
rules--usually haughty or hysterical vocal expressions as though a
dildo is being shoved up the arse or alot of atonal toinkings and
boinkings. and, those forms were readily recognizable and definable.
but, rock music really has no set rules. indeed, the main rule is to
make it up as you go along. and to follow whatever pours out of
oneself.
indeed, the real source of much of rock music is one's personal
emotions as it just bursts out. take 'strawberry fields forever'. what
is hillbilly or negroish about it? maybe a few guitar chords. to be
sure, there also classical elements... though it's not classical music
either. it's mainly the expression of some guy on drugs recalling his
childhood. it's music culled from fragments of one's dreams. or, take
ummagumma by floyd. what is hillbillish or negroish about alot of stuff
there? it's mainly the musical approximation of neuronic buzz and the
psychotic ruminations of weirdos. it's to music what eraserhead is to
cinema. did it grow out of hillybilly or negro music, or even from
rock n roll? hardly. i guess it's connected to rock n roll in the
sense that it's young dudes getting together and doing their own thing.
but, ummagumma couldn't be more farther apart that what little richard
and jerry lee lewis had in mind. indeed, pink floyd probably had more
in common with classical and modern music masters... though they don't
fall in that category either.
so, rock music is simply what young or young-souled people wanna do
with music.
now, there is alot of rock--maybe the majority--that have obvious roots
in blues and country: allmann brothers, lynyrd skynard, ccr, etc, etc.
but, much of rock really have little or nothing to do with negroes or
hillbillies.
take a song like 'comfortably numb' by pink floyd. i mean what the hell
is that? or, beatles 'eleanor rigby'. or dylan's 'sad eyed lady of
the lowlands'. or, leonard cohen's stuff. or, cranberries' beautiful
'empty'.

so, instead of repeating the same rock lineage over and over, we should
look into other unsung forces that influenced rock.. and also how rock
invented new things that simply had no precedence.
cuz, i just don't see any hank williams or muddy waters in david
bowie's 'quicksand', a truly great song.

should we just call rock 'pop'? but pop carries connotations of trained
tin pan alley professionals catering to popular tastes. rock may
indeed by popular but it has to be about personal expression, about
doing your own thing, about 'rebelling' against its own traditions.
take hendrix. though steeped in the blues, some of his far-out stuff
didn't sound like anything that came before. it just sounds like the
wild negro took electrical cords and hooked them to his drug-addled
cranium and just let the neuronic maelstrom flow from his fuc*ed up
head to the speakers. that's rock.
and, 'day in the life' too. i mean what is that? where is carl perkins
or chuck berry in that?

Snarf

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Jul 18, 2005, 3:16:40 PM7/18/05

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Rock is certainly not "thinking too much about rock."

jackstraw116

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Jul 18, 2005, 3:31:45 PM7/18/05

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Don't delve too deeply...Its only a movie.

"Rock" is not about how YOU perceive it......
In a nutshell,I believe it has to do with the "backbeat" on the 2 and 4.
You'll find all your examples share that.......
As opposed to say...a blugrass backbeat on the 1 and 3....

Dylanstubs

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Jul 18, 2005, 3:32:59 PM7/18/05

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courtesy of Google (define:Rock and roll)

Definitions of Rock and roll on the Web:

* is a confusing term with multiple definitions. It can be used
strictly, referring to very little music recorded after the early
1960s, or broadly, to refer to almost all popular music recorded since
the early 1950s. It arose from multiple genres in the late 1940s, most
importantly the jump blues. It was first popularized by performers like
Bill Haley and Elvis Presley, who fused the sound with country music,
resulting in rockabilly. In addition, gospel music and a related genre,
R&B (rhythm and blues), emerged later in the decade. R&B soon became on
of the most popular genres, with girl
www.conk.com/search/encyclopedia.cgi

* American popular music style first heard in the 1950s; derived
from the union of African-American rhythm and blues, country-western,
and pop music.
www.wwnorton.com/college/music/enj9_lessons/glossary/r.htm

* Motion of a ship on the seas Dance / Musical Genre
www.sat.net/~bberlin/nautical.htm

* The forerunner of most modern popular music. A development of
rhythm and blues and country and western. Traditionally a four or five
piece band of drums, bass and lead guitar and lead singer.
www.fisicx.com/quickreference/art/music_glossary.htm

* also called Rock, is a form of popular music, usually featuring
vocals (often with vocal harmony backing), electric guitarss (and
saxophone in the early days) and a strong back beat. Rock and Roll
emerged as a defined musical style in America in the 1950s, though
elements of rock and roll can be seen in rhythm and blues records as
far back as the 1920s. Early rock and roll combined elements of blues,
boogie woogie, jazz and rhythm and blues, and is also influenced by
traditional folk music, gospel music, black and white, and country and
western.
www.encyclopedia4u.com/r/rock-and-roll.html

* rock 'n' roll: a genre of popular music originating in the 1950s;
a blend of Black rhythm-and-blues with White country-and-western; "rock
is a generic term for the range of styles that evolved out of
rock'n'roll."
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* "Rock and Roll (Part 2)" is a glam rock hit performed by British
artist Gary Glitter. It has become a popular song heard at various
sporting events. The song itself is mostly an instrumental piece, with
a rhythmic drum and bass line. Throughout the song, Glitter is heard to
exclaim "Hey!", most notably three times at the song's chorus. At
sporting events, the chorus is often played by itself while the fans
yell "Hey!". The song is often played after the home team scores a
point or goal or w
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_(Part_2)

* Rock and Roll is a song by British rock band Led Zeppelin, which
was released as the second off track of their untitled fourth album in
1971.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_(Led_Zeppelin)

* Rock and roll (also spelt rock 'n' roll, especially in its first
decade), also called rock, is a form of popular music, usually
featuring vocals (often with vocal harmony), electric guitars and a
strong back beat; other instruments, such as the saxophone, are common
in some styles. As a cultural phenomenon, rock's social impact on the
world is likely unparalleled by any other kind of music. It has been
credited with ending wars and spreading peace and tolerance, as well as
corrupting the innoc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

Derek Janssen

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Jul 18, 2005, 6:43:15 PM7/18/05

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jackstraw116 wrote:

>
> >alejandro de tacobell wrote:
>>
> Don't delve too deeply...Its only a movie.
>
> "Rock" is not about how YOU perceive it......
> In a nutshell,I believe it has to do with the "backbeat" on the 2 and 4.
> You'll find all your examples share that.......
> As opposed to say...

...I'm sorry, is this the *five*-minute obligatory Gaza-amnesia thread,
or the full two months?

Derek Janssen (gosh that "alejandro de tacobell" seems like an
interesting chap of questions, he's never posted here before!)
dja...@charter.net

Slip Kid

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Jul 18, 2005, 4:07:18 PM7/18/05

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alejandro de tacobell wrote:

For now, we'll keep this at rmb.

I'll let the other groups you've crossposted have their way with you.

I'm guessing you missed the information I passed on to Salvador? [Mon,
18 Jul 2005 00:17:49 GMT]

Or did you think you might escape?

You can find the note...you will also fine it easy to comply.

_Here is the important part_:

Do you want to be hunted down, found, dismembered & your various parts
sent to all the other troublemakers?

_Yes_

_No_

See, when you write: "...take hendrix. though steeped in the blues, some

of his far-out stuff didn't sound like anything that came before. it
just sounds like the wild negro took electrical cords and hooked them to
his drug-addled cranium and just let the neuronic maelstrom flow from
his fuc*ed up head to the speakers."

Yes, most jurisdictions will see the above and be glad that one more
example of two-legged vermin has been exterminated.

I noticed you post often to rec.arts.movies.current-films?
_Fact can be stranger than fiction_
~~~~
Michael
--
"If you're not in the recording studio you might as well not do it,
because you might get it.
And if you get it, hell stop.
Because it's not a question of how well you play, it's a question of how
well you play once."

Jim Dickinson - American record producer, pianist and singer.

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