OT: Ping Danny God VS Science --Albert Einstein

[who?]

This may have been around before but it is a pretty good read.
You do need to read it to the end. �It is actually fascinating!

�
Science
"Let me explain the problem science has with religion ."The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one.. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything,then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them ?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so.... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs. Science'

PS: The student was Albert Einstein.

Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921....

[Eric Ramon]

I doubt it.

[RichL]

"Eric Ramon" <ramon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b2dcfd0a-10ac-4168...@5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com...

It never happened:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Einstein was essentially an admixture of deist/agnostic. The story didn't
ring true to me and it didn't take long to find out it is false.

[from_me...@comcast.net]

I love it!

[Nil]

On 30 Mar 2013, "RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> It never happened:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
>
> Einstein was essentially an admixture of deist/agnostic. The
> story didn't ring true to me and it didn't take long to find out
> it is false.

Yeah, it smelled fishy to me, too. Thanks for doing the legwork.

[Billy Rubin]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:25:15 PM UTC-4, who? wrote:
> This may have been around before but it is a pretty good read.

Copying and pasting a fictional conversation to prove the existence of God?

Classic.

[who?]

My girlfriend emailed it to me and I thought it was interesting
to pass along. That's all, you know. Too bad you don't like it.
I really don't give a damn.

[from_me...@comcast.net]

On Saturday, March 30, 2013 8:49:13 PM UTC-5, Billy Rubin wrote:

Fictional or not it is a decent argument.

[Bernie Woodham]

On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> This may have been around before but it is a pretty good read.
>

I saw the title of the thread as Ping Danny and thought it was about a
rap artist.

[ermitano]

it izzzzzz boringgg zzzzzzzzzz

[c dubois]

It's a pathetic fairytale. Which, come to think of it, God is in the
first place.

[Marcus]

If God were a fairytale, wouldn't everyone live happily ever after?

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT), c dubois
<curtis...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Mar 30, 2:25�pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>> > 'So you believe in God?'

>It's a pathetic fairytale. Which, come to think of it, God is in the
>first place.

Depends upon your definition of "God". I can easily prove the God I
believe in just by turning on the TV or a light.

--

[ermitano]

Ping Danny God.. that's a great name!

[c dubois]

On Mar 31, 1:25 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT), c dubois
>

> <curtissdub...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 30, 2:25 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> > 'So you believe in God?'
> >It's a pathetic fairytale.  Which, come to think of it, God is in the
> >first place.
>
> Depends upon your definition of "God".  I can easily prove the God I
> believe in just by turning on the TV or a light.
>

Yeah, but that's just redefining terms (like the quoted story does
with "evil"). It's not a tactic any sharp person would be impressed
by.

It's the schtick Yoko relies on when she says that everything is art.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT), c dubois
<curtis...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 31, 1:25 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT), c dubois
>>
>> <curtissdub...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Mar 30, 2:25 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> > 'So you believe in God?'
>> >It's a pathetic fairytale.  Which, come to think of it, God is in the
>> >first place.
>>
>> Depends upon your definition of "God".  I can easily prove the God I
>> believe in just by turning on the TV or a light.
>>
>
>Yeah, but that's just redefining terms (like the quoted story does
>with "evil"). It's not a tactic any sharp person would be impressed
>by.

But what are "YOU" trying to disprove. What is the definition of the
God that you don't believe in? Be specific.

If you think God is a pig that can fly, then I don't believe in your
God either. What is your definition of that which you denounce?

Nothing to do with Yoko.

--

[c dubois]

I'm thinking mainly of the Christian god, but any other generally
recognized god will do. When I say generally recognized I mean
through writings in theology and mythology.

[Mack A. Damia]

That God is described as being along the lines of a magician or a
wizard - described as such to impress the ignorant masses to tow the
line. Great social control. It still is to a degree. If you behave
yourself there is a nice afterlife waiting for you.

There's an intellectual God, as well. Something mysterious that
created everything. Omnipotent and omnipresent.

--

[who?]

LOL

[who?]

You didn't have to read it but you did. Stop complaining.

Jeff

[who?]

I won't argue with you. All I say is that when you've had 4
experiences
like I have, you believe in God.

[who?]

This has nothing to do with Yoko.

[c dubois]

I'm open to hearing about these experiences and how they persuaded you
of a god's existence.

[c dubois]

I didn't say it did. My point was that the redefining of terms is a
favorite game of theists as well as Yoko.

[c dubois]

On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:17:48 -0700 (PDT), c dubois
>
>
>
>
>

Fair enough.

[Billy Rubin]

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:23:32 PM UTC-4, who? wrote:

> All I say is that when you've had 4 experiences
> like I have, you believe in God.

Religious delusions are not uncommon when brain trauma is involved.

[who?]

Okay, I'll list the first thing that has to do with me, and then
things that
happened to other people.

1. For me I just asked God to reveal himself to me. 4 times I felt his
presence, and no I didn't see him. It was like from his brain to
my brain telling me everything would be alright, and I felt this sense
of peace I can't even begin to describe. You would have to go through
this to believe it and believe that God exists.

2. I contacted an old friend a couple of years back that I worked with
40 years ago. He told me that he had an out of body experience.
He's not the type of person to lie.

3. Maybe this is the most important thing to convince you that God
exists: My girlfriend was at a trial for a guy being tried on drug
charges. She wasn't on the jury. Suddenly when this guy was going
to be convicted these 2 guys appeared out of thin air. They were
dressed like warriors and they just stood there next to the judge.
They were tall holding big swords, and the judge said the case
was dismissed, and his handcuffs were taken off and he was
let go. My girlfriend was with another good friend of hers when
this happened. My girlfriend didn't bring up the incident to her
friend, but her friend brought up the incident to her so they
both witnessed this.

Jeff

[Nil]

On 31 Mar 2013, "who?" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> This has nothing to do with Yoko.

To such obsessed people, EVERYthing has to do with Yoko. She defines
them.

[Bernie Woodham]

On Mar 31, 7:16 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> 3. Maybe this is the most important thing to convince you that God
> exists: My girlfriend was at a trial for a guy being tried on drug
> charges. She wasn't on the jury. Suddenly when this guy was going
> to be convicted these 2 guys appeared out of thin air. They were
> dressed like warriors and they just stood there next to the judge.
> They were tall holding big swords, and the judge said the case
> was dismissed, and his handcuffs were taken off and he was
> let go. My girlfriend was with another good friend of hers when
> this happened. My girlfriend didn't bring up the incident to her
> friend, but her friend brought up the incident to her so they
> both witnessed this.
>
> Jeff

No offense, Jeff. But I'd get a new girlfriend.

[who?]

No offense taken, Bernie, but why is that? She's a wonderful person
and has never done drugs. She doesn't lie. Just because someone
had an experience that none of us had doesn't mean you should
get rid of them, IMO.

Jeff

[who?]

On Mar 31, 6:39 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2013, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in

> rec.music.beatles:
>
> > This has nothing to do with Yoko.
>
> To such obsessed people, EVERYthing has to do with Yoko. She defines
> them.

I agree with you, and I can't figure out why she's so important?

[Nil]

On 31 Mar 2013, "who?" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> I agree with you, and I can't figure out why she's so important?

I figure it's related to John's thought, "God is a concept by which we
measure our pain." Some people seem to have to nurse the idea of an
ultimate villain so they can measure everything against it and feel
secure in their own superiority.

The mystery is why they choose some old widow of a 40+-years-dead rock
star for that role. Waste of mental energy and a soul-sap, if you ask
me.

[Billy Rubin]

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:34:56 PM UTC-4, who? wrote:

> She doesn't lie.

Psychotics don't lie either.

[ermitano]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[who?]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwZUHkMbaj0

[who?]

On Mar 31, 8:38 pm, Billy Rubin <bellyfl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Here is one I know you'll really like.. Had to leave you
with this. Stumbled across it by accident.

http://dannymcevoy.com/

[who?]

Here's something to keep you awake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10jORLiU7Ak

[Bernie Woodham]

On Mar 31, 10:59 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Here's something to keep you awake.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10jORLiU7Ak

Interesting video. While browsing through the comments I saw this
woman's(?) comment and it made me look at her(?) profile.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Barbiegurlalo

Do you think "he" is trolling for possible suckers?

[who?]

I don't know, Bernie. I suppose there are trolls just
about everywhere you go. I think a lot of people
find someplace to hang out all day just to pass the
time. There's a JFK newsgroup and all they do all
day is try and figure out how he was assassinated.
That's one place to stay away from.

Jeff

[Marcus]

On Mar 31, 8:58 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2013, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in

I think everyone who was a fan of The Beatles wished they hadn't
broken up when they did, but hose who ruminate on it too much find Ono
to be a convenient target for their misplaced anger.

[hislop]

The idea that people know everything is a misguided belief too.

[Billy Rubin]

On Monday, April 1, 2013 2:41:26 AM UTC-4, who? wrote:

> I think a lot of people
>
> find someplace to hang out all day just to pass the
>
> time. There's a JFK newsgroup and all they do all
>
> day is try and figure out how he was assassinated.

Some people hang out in a Beatles newsgroup all day every day talking about religious hallucinations, stereo systems, and trying to figure out their computer for the millionth time. How's that glass house?

[Marcus]

.

I find that experience to be quite interesting in that two people had
it, but didn't know each one was seeing it, and they didn't talk about
it immediately.

Assuming they were both telling the truth, it had to be all they could
do not blurt out, "Where did those guys come from?"

So, I don't disbelieve it, Jeff, but I can understand why some people
might be skeptical. I have had "sightings" (for lack of a better
word) a few times in my life, and I know that some folks I've told
don't believe it happened to me.

Marc

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 08:30:22 -0700 (PDT), Marcus <marc...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Given that it happened, why is this proof that God exists?

The guy could have been guilty, and the two warriors could have been
sent from hell, no?

--

[Bernie Woodham]

On Apr 1, 9:41 am, hislop <takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The idea that people know everything is a misguided belief too.

Right. And it's people who came up with all the beliefs.

[who?]

Marcus, it's okay with me that some people are skeptical.
Somebody asked me to tell my story, so I did. What was
it you went though, that is if you want to talk about it?

Jeff

[Billy Rubin]

http://news.yahoo.com/strange-sleep-disorder-makes-people-see-demons-152946861.html

[who?]

On Monday, April 1, 2013 12:38:23 PM UTC-5, Billy Rubin wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/strange-sleep-disorder-makes-people-see-demons-152946861.html

This is the deal right here in front of you:
Every time you put Danny and myself down, it causes
controversy which makes people curious. It spreads
the word about you, good and bad, and people will
check "us" out because of "put downs" or because
other people build us "up." It doesn't matter because
either way, we receive the attention you are so
desperately trying to give us, by repeating yourself
either with or without liking us. I can't speak for
Danny, but I can speak for myself: Just like Danny is
doing, I don't post here nearly as much as I used to.
Why you may ask? Because I have other things going
for myself, just like Danny. So PLEASE keep helping
us both out by your constant attention you give us and
spreading the news. I can't thank you enough. I've said
all I have to say so please keep trying to get my attention.
This is fun.

Jeff

[Marcus]

On Apr 1, 11:36 am, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Given that it happened, why is this proof that God exists?

I didn't say it was proof.

>
> The guy could have been guilty, and the two warriors could have been
> sent from hell, no?

Well, if there is no God, could there still be hell?

All I was saying is that I have experienced situations that seem to be
indications of something other than the eartly plane. I don't know
how authentic the account was that Jeff mentioned. I wouldn't say
that account was a definitive proof of God, but it obviously means
something if two people experienced it without knowing the other did
too.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT), Marcus <marc...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Apr 1, 11:36�am, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Given that it happened, why is this proof that God exists?
>
>I didn't say it was proof.

I thought Jeff made the claim.

>> The guy could have been guilty, and the two warriors could have been
>> sent from hell, no?
>
>Well, if there is no God, could there still be hell?

Interesting point, because one philosophical school of thought
suggests that God had to invent the devil and evil so that people
would know Him and goodness.

>All I was saying is that I have experienced situations that seem to be
>indications of something other than the eartly plane. I don't know
>how authentic the account was that Jeff mentioned. I wouldn't say
>that account was a definitive proof of God, but it obviously means
>something if two people experienced it without knowing the other did
>too.

That is a very strange story, and I doubt its authenticity unless
there were some magic mushrooms involved.

--

[Billy Rubin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

[Marcus]

> Jeff-

I would prefer not to relate those stories at this time. I may write
them up someday, and distribute.

Marc

[Nooffa Subject]

"who?" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Monday, April 1, 2013 12:38:23 PM UTC-5, Billy Rubin wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/strange-sleep-disorder-makes-people-see-demons-1
>> 52946861.html
>
> This is the deal right here in front of you:
> Every time you put Danny and myself down

You're repeating yourself.

[Bernie Woodham]

On Apr 1, 3:55 pm, Marcus <marcus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I would prefer not to relate those stories at this time.  I may write
> them up someday, and distribute.
>
> Marc

I'll have to pay close attention to those Jesus tracks I get handed
now and then.

[Eric Ramon]

On Apr 1, 12:50 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT), Marcus <marcus...@yahoo.com>

> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 1, 11:36 am, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Given that it happened, why is this proof that God exists?
>
> >I didn't say it was proof.
>
> I thought Jeff made the claim.
>

well now we've moved away from the first post, the bizarre, inaccurate
attribution of some god-fearing daydream to Albert Einstein.

Personally I believe that everything there is in this universe is God,
which means you and me and my cats and those rocks over there. But
Albert Einstein didn't tell me that and I'm not going to make up a
phony dialogue where he shames somebody into silence.

If anyone else has a different view of anything (Iet's call it
"reality") then fine. I don't care, except it might be interesting.
But when we swing the conversation to the existence of "God" then
let's first acknowledge that the "Einstein" story is a fraud.
Defending it because there might be a God makes no sense. Let's all
agree (that means you, too, Jeff) that the discussion got off to a
rocky start with the phony-baloney post. Let's get rid of that aspect
and then we can get to a discussion of religious beliefs.

[Marcus]

You won't find anything by me in those.

However, I will tell you the only Jesus-related dream I had many years
ago.

I was looking for a used car, went to a car dealership, and inside was
Jesus, a car salesman. He looks at me, and says he has just the car
for me, a Nissan Mantra. Then, he tells me to think with the right
side of my brain.

Come to think of it, I did own a Nissan Sentra after that, and I
usually lead with my right. ;-)

[Mack A. Damia]

That's called "pantheism", and I happen to share that view - except
that I say that God is the sum-total of all energy in the Universe. If
you want proof of God's existence, stand outside in an open field
during a lightening storm holding a lightening rod high above your
head.

No, really. Don't do that.

--

[brilton]

What an awesome dream!

[Bernie Woodham]

On Apr 1, 10:37 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's called "pantheism", and I happen to share that view - except
> that I say that God is the sum-total of all energy in the Universe. If
> you want proof of God's existence, stand outside in an open field
> during a lightening storm holding a lightening rod high above your
> head.
>
> No, really.  Don't do that.
>
> --

I used to consider myself a pantheist. But one day it occurred to me
that if you are going to equate god with the universe, why say "god"
at all? Why not just say "universe" or "nature"?

To me the belief in god only takes on any meaning when the said "god"
is very personal. Pantheism does not offer that.

So, I have moved back to a strict agnosticism.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 19:52:37 -0700 (PDT), Bernie Woodham
<birnh...@insightbb.com> wrote:

>On Apr 1, 10:37�pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's called "pantheism", and I happen to share that view - except
>> that I say that God is the sum-total of all energy in the Universe. If
>> you want proof of God's existence, stand outside in an open field
>> during a lightening storm holding a lightening rod high above your
>> head.
>>
>> No, really. �Don't do that.
>>
>> --
>
>I used to consider myself a pantheist. But one day it occurred to me
>that if you are going to equate god with the universe, why say "god"
>at all? Why not just say "universe" or "nature"?

Or Yahweh, or the Great Cosmic Muffin?

>To me the belief in god only takes on any meaning when the said "god"
>is very personal. Pantheism does not offer that.

Do a little surfing on Jaynes' theory of the bicameral mind. You
might change yours.

>So, I have moved back to a strict agnosticism.

I don't know. I believe in my definition and will defend it to all
critics.

--

[brilton]

A pity He didn't offer to sell you a Jesus Chrysler.

[Bernie Woodham]

Wait a minute... If you lead with your right, isn't that controlled by
the left brain?

[who?]

Eric, and the rest of you: You might want to check out youtube
for people who have had those out of body experiences.

Jeff

[Marcus]

On Apr 1, 11:32 pm, brilton <notl...@yacht.net> wrote:
> A pity He didn't offer to sell you a Jesus Chrysler.

or a crossover vehicle.

[Marcus]

> What an awesome dream.

I was just reading over the description of my dream, and I think I may
have erred...after all it happened in the mid-90s...I'm not sure if
the name of the car was "Nissan Mantra" or "Nissan Karma". But
everything else about the dream is accurate. And I did eventually own
a Sentra.

The weirdest Beatles-related dream I"ve ever had was about 15-20 yrs
ago. I'm walking along Central Park West, and the guy walking in
front of me is John Lennon. I recognize him, and start talking to
him. So, I'm walking with him for about a minute, and then I say,
"Hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?" And when I turn my head to
look at him, he was gone...completely disappeared.

[Marcus]

not if you are ambispheric.

[brilton]

On 2/04/13 9:45 PM, Marcus wrote:



>
> The weirdest Beatles-related dream I"ve ever had was about 15-20 yrs
> ago. I'm walking along Central Park West, and the guy walking in
> front of me is John Lennon. I recognize him, and start talking to
> him. So, I'm walking with him for about a minute, and then I say,
> "Hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?" And when I turn my head to
> look at him, he was gone...completely disappeared.

Whenever I encounter people in my dreams, I make a point of telling them
that they are actually dead. They usually shrug it off and carry on
whatever it is they are doing.

[who?]

On Apr 1, 9:18 pm, Eric Ramon <ramon.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric, I'm just waiting for this subject to continue.

Jeff

[who?]

Marcus, I understand.

Jeff

[who?]

On Apr 1, 2:50 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT), Marcus <marcus...@yahoo.com>

> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 1, 11:36 am, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Given that it happened, why is this proof that God exists?
>
> >I didn't say it was proof.
>
> I thought Jeff made the claim.

Mack, my girlfriend sent me that story about Einstein in an email.
I should have checked to see if he wrote the book in 1921
before I posted it. No such book, and I wasn't trying to claim
anything. I was asked about my experiences, and I claimed
I had those.

> >> The guy could have been guilty, and the two warriors could have been
> >> sent from hell, no?
>
> >Well, if there is no God, could there still be hell?
>
> Interesting point, because one philosophical school of thought
> suggests that God had to invent the devil and evil so that people
> would know Him and goodness.
>
> >All I was saying is that I have experienced situations that seem to be
> >indications of something other than the eartly plane.  I don't know
> >how authentic the account was that Jeff mentioned.  I wouldn't say
> >that account was a definitive proof of God, but it obviously means
> >something if two people experienced it without knowing the other did
> >too.
>
> That is a very strange story, and I doubt its authenticity unless
> there were some magic mushrooms involved.
>
> --

My girlfriend doesn't take drugs or smoke pot.

Jeff

[c dubois]

On Mar 31, 7:16 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Mar 31, 4:41 pm, cdubois<curtissdub...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 31, 5:23 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 31, 12:10 pm, cdubois<curtissdub...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 30, 5:33 pm, Eric Ramon <ramon.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mar 30, 2:25 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > This may have been around before but it is a pretty good read.
> > > > > > You do need to read it to the end. It is actually fascinating!
>
> > > > > > Science
> > > > > > "Let me explain the problem science has with religion ."The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
>
> > > > > > 'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes sir,' the student says.
>
> > > > > > 'So you believe in God?'
>
> > > > > > 'Absolutely '
>
> > > > > > 'Is God good?'
>
> > > > > > 'Sure! God's good.'
>
> > > > > > 'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes'
>
> > > > > > 'Are you good or evil?'
>
> > > > > > 'The Bible says I'm evil.'
>
> > > > > > The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes sir, I would.'
>
> > > > > > 'So you're good...!'
>
> > > > > > 'I wouldn't say that.'
>
> > > > > > 'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'
>
> > > > > > The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'
>
> > > > > > The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'
>
> > > > > > 'Er..yes,' the student says.
>
> > > > > > 'Is Satan good?'
>
> > > > > > The student doesn't hesitate on this one.. 'No.'
>
> > > > > > 'Then where does Satan come from?'
>
> > > > > > The student falters. 'From God'
>
> > > > > > 'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes, sir.'
>
> > > > > > 'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes'
>
> > > > > > 'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything,then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'
>
> > > > > > Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'
>
> > > > > > The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'
>
> > > > > > 'So who created them ?'
>
> > > > > > The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'
>
> > > > > > The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'
>
> > > > > > The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'
>
> > > > > > 'No sir. I've never seen Him.'
>
> > > > > > 'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'
>
> > > > > > 'No, sir, I have not.'
>
> > > > > > 'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'
>
> > > > > > 'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'
>
> > > > > > 'Yet you still believe in him?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes'
>
> > > > > > 'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'
>
> > > > > > 'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'
>
> > > > > > The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '
>
> > > > > > ' Yes.
>
> > > > > > 'And is there such a thing as cold?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes, son, there's cold too.'
>
> > > > > > 'No sir, there isn't.'
>
> > > > > > The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'
>
> > > > > > Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
>
> > > > > > 'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'
>
> > > > > > 'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'
>
> > > > > > The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'
>
> > > > > > 'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'
>
> > > > > > The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'
>
> > > > > > 'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'
>
> > > > > > 'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'
>
> > > > > > 'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'
>
> > > > > > The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
>
> > > > > > 'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'
>
> > > > > > The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so.... So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'
>
> > > > > > Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'
>
> > > > > > 'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'
>
> > > > > > To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'
>
> > > > > > The professor sat down.
>
> > > > > > If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs. Science'
>
> > > > > > PS: The student was Albert Einstein.
>
> > > > > > Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921....
>
> > > > > I doubt it.
>
> > > > It's a pathetic fairytale.  Which, come to think of it, God is in the
> > > > first place.
>
> > > I won't argue with you. All I say is that when you've had 4
> > > experiences
> > > like I have, you believe in God.
>
> > I'm open to hearing about these experiences and how they persuaded you
> > of a god's existence.
>
> Okay, I'll list the first thing that has to do with me, and then
> things that
> happened to other people.
>
> 1. For me I just asked God to reveal himself to me. 4 times I felt his
> presence, and no I didn't see him. It was like from his brain to
> my brain telling me everything would be alright, and I felt this sense
> of peace I can't even begin to describe. You would have to go through
> this to believe it and believe that God exists.
>
> 2. I contacted an old friend a couple of years back that I worked with
> 40 years ago. He told me that he had an out of body experience.
> He's not the type of person to lie.

>
> 3. Maybe this is the most important thing to convince you that God
> exists: My girlfriend was at a trial for a guy being tried on drug
> charges. She wasn't on the jury. Suddenly when this guy was going
> to be convicted these 2 guys appeared out of thin air. They were
> dressed like warriors and they just stood there next to the judge.
> They were tall holding big swords, and the judge said the case
> was dismissed, and his handcuffs were taken off and he was
> let go. My girlfriend was with another good friend of hers when
> this happened. My girlfriend didn't bring up the incident to her
> friend, but her friend brought up the incident to her so they
> both
>

> Jeff

Hi, Jeff. Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I've been
really busy.
To start with your first example, I too know people who momentarily
felt peaceful after praying or otherwise believing they had contacted
God. One of these people, in fact, was terminally ill. I visited her
shortly after one of these alleged contacts, and she was more serene
and pain-free than she had been in months. She told me that God had
given her His word that He would heal her.

She died later that week.

[topazgalaxy]

This is a very interesting post.
The main debate in the posters here is what is the proof that
Einstein actually was the student here in this heated discussion.
I would say the main flaws in the story are 1. the concept of God
clearly is coming from a Christian perspective 2. To my knowledge
Einstein was never Christian-- he may have been Jewish, agnostic, or
atheist at different points in his life but he , to my knowledge ,
was never Christian.

So to accept that all of this was from Eintein is a little tough.

[Mack A. Damia]

This was making the email rounds a few months ago. Unfortunately, the
less-informed of society never bother to do their homework.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

--

[topazgalaxy]

On Mar 31, 9:38 pm, Billy Rubin <bellyfl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:34:56 PM UTC-4, who? wrote:
> > She doesn't lie.
>
> Psychotics don't lie either.

Lying implies that the person has intent to not tell the truth.
Jeff explained that 2 people witnessed the same thing. Why would they
lie to each other?
Psychotic people , yes, can lie. Or the other possibility is that
two people saw something that was new and miraculous .
Or two people saw something that was not supernatural but they did
not have a scientific, logical explanation for it but what they saw
was real.
I would give Jeff's girlfriend the benefit of the doubt and believe
that she saw something that was amazing to her.

[topazgalaxy]

> > > both witnessed this.
>
> > > Jeff
>
> .
>
> I find that experience to be quite interesting in that two people had
> it, but didn't know each one was seeing it, and they didn't talk about
> it immediately.
>
> Assuming they were both telling the truth, it had to be all they could
> do not blurt out, "Where did those guys come from?"
>
> So, I don't disbelieve it, Jeff, but I can understand why some people
> might be skeptical.  I have had "sightings" (for lack of a better
> word) a few times in my life, and I know that some folks I've told
> don't believe it happened to me.
>
> Marc

I believe that Jeff's girlfriend and her friend saw something and it
is interesting indeed if they both described it in the same way.
For some people at this group it is easier to not believe in miracles
or God because believing in God or an afterlife is very frightening
to them.
To each their own.

I have read too many near death experiences and sightings of spirits
etc etc to say that what they saw was impossible. I say it was
possible.

[topazgalaxy]

On Apr 1, 10:30 pm, Marcus <marcus...@yahoo.com> wrote:

this is a great dream!

Now he told you he was selling you a Nissan MANTRA or was that an
intentional pun in your post? Because in the dream itself that might
be a very meaningful pun.

[topazgalaxy]

Check out Proof of Heaven by Dr Eben Alexander, it has been on the NY
Times Bestseller list. He also now has a website. A heck of an out
of body experience so to speak
He has been speaking on Oprah, and other TV shows and churches.
It is on youtube.

[topazgalaxy]

interesting, thanks

[who?]

I understand. No problem.

> To start with your first example, I too know people who momentarily
>
> felt peaceful after praying or otherwise believing they had contacted
>
> God. One of these people, in fact, was terminally ill. I visited her
>
> shortly after one of these alleged contacts, and she was more serene
>
> and pain-free than she had been in months. She told me that God had
>
> given her His word that He would heal her.
>
>
>
> She died later that week.

To me, the most important thing is this woman found peace
within herself before she died, because of her faith. Without
it, there is nothing.

Jeff

[curtis...@gmail.com]

Well, I'm certainly glad she was seemingly okay during my last meeting with her, because she had been very, very sick for a long time.

But my point is that this person's conviction that God had promised to heal her turned out to be untrue in spite of the temporary peace it gave her; days later, she was gone.

I guess the more general point I'm trying to make is that feelings of well-being don't imply God's existence. Atheists have these feelings too. And there are lots of atheists who die serenely WITHOUT resorting to suppositions about afterlives and divine powers.

[thewalruswasdanny]

> To me, the most important thing is this woman found peace
>
> within herself before she died, because of her faith. Without
>
> it, there is nothing.

Well it's very nice that she gained solace from fairy tales before the final curtain..but you know..I quite like Star Trek..

Danny

[who?]

On Monday, May 6, 2013 4:32:39 PM UTC-5, curtis...@gmail.com wrote:
> Well, I'm certainly glad she was seemingly okay during my last meeting with her, because she had been very, very sick for a long time.
>
>
>
> But my point is that this person's conviction that God had promised to heal her turned out to be untrue in spite of the temporary peace it gave her; days later, she was gone.

I understood your point.

> I guess the more general point I'm trying to make is that feelings of well-being don't imply God's existence. Atheists have these feelings too. And there are lots of atheists who die serenely WITHOUT resorting to suppositions about afterlives and divine powers.

I'm sorry you have a problem with I believe. I don't have a
problem with what you believe.

[who?]

You know Danny, if you would teach yourself how to play bass,
basic drums, basic piano, and or lead on the guitar, you would
be a much happier person. You wouldn't have time or the
desire to get on this topic. You would be so exited, and don't
forget to buy yourself a recording studio. Seriously, go for
it. You're already a great rhythm guitarist, but you've already
been there, and done that. Just sayin..........

Jeff

[Eric Ramon]

Jeff, if you want to discuss religion you have to be prepared for the
comments from people who disagree with you. If you prefer to dismiss
those comments then you're not discussing at all.

Personally, I mean while we're here in this thread, I don't see why
Heaven is likelier than the Elysian Fields or Fairyland. In fact I
think I'd prefer the afterlife to be Fairyland. Maybe, if there's an
afterlife, we choose which one we go to. Maybe there's just a cycle
and we'll be reborn as a creature on a far distant planet. Maybe we'll
get to the end and it'll be the end.

I hope there's something, because I like being me and it would be nice
to be me forever, even if it's as a mountain goat. But I am not in any
hurry to find out.

[Mack A. Damia]

Think "Parallel Uuniverses" and "String Theory".

--

[zippl...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 6, 2013 9:26:44 PM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:
> On May 6, 6:13 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, May 6, 2013 7:53:45 PM UTC-5, thewalruswasdanny wrote:
>
> > > > To me, the most important thing is this woman found peace
>
> >
>
> > > > within herself before she died, because of her faith. Without
>
> >
>
> > > > it, there is nothing.
>
> >
>
> > > Well it's very nice that she gained solace from fairy tales before the final curtain..but you know..I quite like Star Trek..
>
> >
>
> > > Danny
>
> >
>
> > You know Danny, if you would teach yourself how to play bass,
>
> > basic drums, basic piano, and or lead on the guitar, you would
>
> > be a much happier person. You wouldn't have time or the
>
> > desire to get on this topic. You would be so exited, and don't
>
> > forget to buy yourself a recording studio. Seriously, go for
>
> > it. You're already a great rhythm guitarist, but you've already
>
> > been there, and done that. Just sayin..........
>
> >
>
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> Jeff, if you want to discuss religion you have to be prepared for the
>
> comments from people who disagree with you.

I agree, Eric. No problems on my end.

If you prefer to dismiss
>
> those comments then you're not discussing at all.

I'm not dismissing Danny's comments. There wasn't anything
more to say on the subject, so I suggested that Danny learn how
to play more instruments, like me, you, Rich, and Nil, to name
a few people. We all have a great time.

> Personally, I mean while we're here in this thread, I don't see why
>
> Heaven is likelier than the Elysian Fields or Fairyland. In fact I
>
> think I'd prefer the afterlife to be Fairyland. Maybe, if there's an
>
> afterlife, we choose which one we go to. Maybe there's just a cycle
>
> and we'll be reborn as a creature on a far distant planet. Maybe we'll
>
> get to the end and it'll be the end.

Yep.

> I hope there's something, because I like being me and it would be nice
>
> to be me forever, even if it's as a mountain goat. But I am not in any
>
> hurry to find out.

Just as long as you don't want to be a spider. I don't like to
think of you getting stepped on. Ouch!

Jeff

[who?]

On May 6, 7:53 pm, thewalruswasdanny <thewalruswasda...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I hate that show. Looks so fake. You ought to check out all
those life after death experiences on youtube. All those
people can't be lying.

Jeff

[c dubois]

Many of these people are verly likely deluded, through medication,
pain, wishful thinking, and so on.

By the way, Jeff, you said that "Faith is everything." you The members
of the Heaven's Gate cult all had faith that, upon committing suicide,
their souls would transport to an alleged spaceship hidden behind the
Hale-Bopp comet.

Faith often results shocking stupidity and destruction.

[Bernie Woodham]

On May 9, 1:23 pm, c dubois <curtissdub...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> By the way, Jeff, you said that "Faith is everything." you The members
> of the Heaven's Gate cult all had faith that, upon committing suicide,
> their souls would transport to an alleged spaceship hidden behind the
> Hale-Bopp comet.
>
> Faith often results shocking stupidity and destruction.

I knew a guy who became so obsessed with having a direct personal
experience with god, that he actually jumped in front of a speeding
car believing that god would save him.

Of course, it killed him. He was not a very mentally stable person to
begin with. But religion did not help him one iota.

[who?]

That's not the type of things I'm talking about.

Jeff

[c dubois]

It seemed to me we were both talking about faith in afterlives.





> Jeff

[who?]

We were both talking about faith in afterlives. I wasn't talking
about Heaven's Gate. I was talking about "my" faith which
has nothing to do with my Christian faith. There's no way
that you can destroy my experiences, no matter how
hard you try.

Jeff

[The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit]

On May 10, 8:10 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> There's no way
> that you can destroy my experiences, no matter how
> hard you try.

And there's no way that you can convince others that your experiences
were real, no matter how hard you try.

So stop trying.

[who?]

On May 10, 7:38 pm, The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit <bellyfl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I'm not trying. I'm just speaking of them. I don't care who
believes me, but keep watching posters trying to convince
me that I'm wrong. Just keep watching.

Jeff

[who?]

On May 10, 7:38 pm, The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit <bellyfl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Why don't you start talking about Danny some more? I'm sure
the both of you could become best friends.

[The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit]

On May 10, 9:30 pm, "who?" <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Why don't you start talking about Danny some more?

I haven't even thought about him in several months, much less talked
about him.

You seem to be fixated on the subject, however. Any reason, other than
RMB being your life?

[who?]

On May 10, 8:36 pm, The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit <bellyfl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

It's my life. I love this place.

Jeff

[topazgalaxy]

It can but it does not have to. Faith has both good and bad
applications and examples, as do so many things in life.
As the Buddhist saying goes "everything in moderation, even
moderation."

[topazgalaxy]

On May 10, 8:38 pm, The Brooklyn Tomato Bandit <bellyfl...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

If "who' wishes to keep trying we should let him. Your 'command"
that he stop trying really has no power here.

[who?]

Well, we're not supposed to test God by jumping in front of
a speeding car, hoping God will save us, like the story
that was told. That type of faith isn't even what I was
talking about.