Carole King book (including Lennon story)

[John Doherty]

Carole King was on Fresh Air this week . It's on iTunes podcasts (for
free) and you can also download it or listen online on NPR.org.

It was a great interview, in that her career starts in the mid fifties
as a 15 year old walking in to audition her songs for Ahmet Ertegun
(after looking up "record companies" in the phone book on advice she
received from mega DJ of the 50s Alan Freed).

Soon after that she's in Queens College, and hanging out doing demos
with fellow student Paul Simon (!). Though she never wrote with him,
they cut many demos of each others' songs. Simon had 15 minutes of
fame then with Artie as "Tom & Jerry". Later King meets Gerry Goffin,
and together they write "Chains", "Take Good Care of My Baby" (both
later covered by the Beatles) and the immortal "Will You Love Me
Tomorrow?" among many other enduring classics.

In the late 60s, divorced from Goffin & now with kids, she takes to
the road as a backing musician for a rising star, James Taylor, who
starts pushing her in front of a microphone to sing "Up on The Roof"
and other great songs she wrote. Out of this moment comes the one of
the greatest selling albums of all time, Tapestry. At one point, on
her
remake of "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?", James Taylor & Joni Mitchell
are doing background vocals.

On TV this week, King recounted meeting the Beatles in the early days,
and how George, Paul & Ringo were cordial and fans or her work, but
Lennon was downright rude and sneering. A decade or more later, Yoko
invited her to the Dakota, and John explained he was intimidated by
her talent.

Lastly, this past week the show Mad Men had one of its greatest
episodes ever, "Mystery Date", which was all about men & women
interacting, with references to fairy tales throughout and the as yet
unnamed Richard Speck murders (he was not yet caught) looming over
everything.

They ended the show with a weird little number from 1962 by the
Crystals entitled "He Hit Me (& It Felt Like a Kiss)". The song was
produced by Phil Spector (!) and written by Goffin & King.

In the current interviews, King expressed regret over this one, and
said it was based on a remark by Little Eva, her babysitter who would
record "The Locomotion" about her boyfriend.

[Mack A. Damia]

Don't forget the Brill Building, north of Times Square where she and
Neil Sedaka (and others) turned out hit-after-hit for themselves and
others, He wrote, "Oh! Carole", and she countered with "Oh! Neil".
They dated in high school, too. Their lists of hits in the 1950s and
1960s is unequaled.
--

[jo...@johndoherty.com]

On Saturday, April 14, 2012 9:41:40 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> Don't forget the Brill Building, north of Times Square where she and
> Neil Sedaka (and others) turned out hit-after-hit for themselves and
> others, He wrote, "Oh! Carole", and she countered with "Oh! Neil".
> They dated in high school, too. Their lists of hits in the 1950s and
> 1960s is unequaled.
> --

The Brill Building, of course, Were Lieber/Stolling /Lieber working there as well?

But with Sedaka, I can't go there. He seems too much of the sort of wiehgtless crap the Beatles displaced, whereas much of King's catalog seems immortal by comparison.

In terms of hits, sure, Neil scored. But by the ruler of who they covered & hang out with, both King and Paul Simon were obviously much better respected by the Beatles than was Sedaka.

Probably my favorite tune he wrote was the Captain & Tennille's "Love Will Keep Us Together", and I'm being charitable digging for that one. ;-)

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:28:27 -0700 (PDT), jo...@johndoherty.com wrote:

>On Saturday, April 14, 2012 9:41:40 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> Don't forget the Brill Building, north of Times Square where she and
>> Neil Sedaka (and others) turned out hit-after-hit for themselves and
>> others, He wrote, "Oh! Carole", and she countered with "Oh! Neil".
>> They dated in high school, too. Their lists of hits in the 1950s and
>> 1960s is unequaled.
>> --
>
>The Brill Building, of course, Were Lieber/Stolling /Lieber working there as well?

According to my research, the Brill Building was actually a number of
neighboring buildings, and, yes, they were associated with Brill.

>But with Sedaka, I can't go there. He seems too much of the sort of wiehgtless crap the Beatles displaced, whereas much of King's catalog seems immortal by comparison.
>
>In terms of hits, sure, Neil scored. But by the ruler of who they covered & hang out with, both King and Paul Simon were obviously much better respected by the Beatles than was Sedaka.
>
>Probably my favorite tune he wrote was the Captain & Tennille's "Love Will Keep Us Together", and I'm being charitable digging for that one. ;-)

He was a 1950s/early 1960's composer before the English invasion. His
music was a bubblegum and bobby-sox sound. He did much better writing
for others.

Still, he was a very talented guy.
--

[globular]

On 14/04/2012 11:10 PM, John Doherty wrote:
> Carole King was on Fresh Air this week . It's on iTunes podcasts (for
> free) and you can also download it or listen online on NPR.org.
>
> It was a great interview, in that her career starts in the mid fifties
> as a 15 year old walking in to audition her songs for Ahmet Ertegun
> (after looking up "record companies" in the phone book on advice she
> received from mega DJ of the 50s Alan Freed).
>
> Soon after that she's in Queens College, and hanging out doing demos
> with fellow student Paul Simon (!). Though she never wrote with him,
> they cut many demos of each others' songs. Simon had 15 minutes of

> fame then with Artie as "Tom& Jerry". Later King meets Gerry Goffin,

> and together they write "Chains", "Take Good Care of My Baby" (both
> later covered by the Beatles) and the immortal "Will You Love Me
> Tomorrow?" among many other enduring classics.
>

> In the late 60s, divorced from Goffin& now with kids, she takes to

> the road as a backing musician for a rising star, James Taylor, who
> starts pushing her in front of a microphone to sing "Up on The Roof"
> and other great songs she wrote. Out of this moment comes the one of
> the greatest selling albums of all time, Tapestry. At one point, on
> her

> remake of "Will You Love Me Tomorrow?", James Taylor& Joni Mitchell

> are doing background vocals.
>
> On TV this week, King recounted meeting the Beatles in the early days,

> and how George, Paul& Ringo were cordial and fans or her work, but

> Lennon was downright rude and sneering. A decade or more later, Yoko
> invited her to the Dakota, and John explained he was intimidated by
> her talent.
>
> Lastly, this past week the show Mad Men had one of its greatest

> episodes ever, "Mystery Date", which was all about men& women

> interacting, with references to fairy tales throughout and the as yet
> unnamed Richard Speck murders (he was not yet caught) looming over
> everything.

>
> They ended the show with a weird little number from 1962 by the
> Crystals entitled "He Hit Me (& It Felt Like a Kiss)". The song was
> produced by Phil Spector (!) and written by Goffin& King.

Great to have these songs on a television show, but it's meant to be
based in 1966 and still appears to be incorporating a different type of
nostalgia, for a different 60s.

[Nil]

On 15 Apr 2012, globular <takecar...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> Great to have these songs on a television show, but it's meant to
> be based in 1966 and still appears to be incorporating a different
> type of nostalgia, for a different 60s.

Huh?? What do mean? A "different type of nostalgia" than what? A
"different 60s" than what other '60s?

[globular]

It was self evident. A song from 1962 used for 1966, yes it's all the
60s anyway.

[Nil]

On 16 Apr 2012, globular <takecar...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> On 16/04/2012 11:07 AM, Nil wrote:
>>
>> Huh?? What do mean? A "different type of nostalgia" than what? A
>> "different 60s" than what other '60s?
>
> It was self evident.

Not to me. I still don't know what "a different kind of nostalgia" is.

> A song from 1962 used for 1966,

Why not? They didn't stop playing '62 records on New Years Day 1963.

The song was used because it was germane to the story.

> yes it's all the 60s anyway.

Yes.

[Fattuchus]

I have not heard the interview and have not read King's autobiography,
but this all sounds fascinating. She sure did meet and work with a
star studded group of people. Quite an accomplishment for a nice
Jewish girl from Brooklyn!

I'm also delighted that King was invited to and visited the Dakota
where John could explain/apologize for his bad behavior. Nice to read
that they cleared the air before he died.

I did read an article which summarized some portions of King's
autobiography. Sounds like she had an interesting life. According to
the article, she moved away from the "glamor" of Hollywood and
California and instead chose to live a "working class life" in a very
rural area in the midwest. King lived a down to earth, hard working
life, avoiding some of the excesses of fame such as drugs.

[globular]

Not good enough.
It's all the same anyway, play alternative music from the 90s if it's
appropriate too, they did once.

>
>> yes it's all the 60s anyway.
>
> Yes.

They can play all 50s music for all I care.

[Nil]

On 17 Apr 2012, globular <takecar...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.music.beatles:

> On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Nil wrote:
>> Why not? They didn't stop playing '62 records on New Years Day
>> 1963.
>>
>> The song was used because it was germane to the story.
>
> Not good enough.

I really don't get your point. What's your objection to "Mad Men" using
a song from a couple of years earlier than the current year of the
story? It's something that would have still been playing on the radio,
and it effectively commented on the plot.

> It's all the same anyway, play alternative music from the 90s if
> it's appropriate too, they did once.

I don't remember that. That might be jarring, but I'd have to hear it
in context. The theme music is anachronistic, too, but I can accept it.

>>> yes it's all the 60s anyway.
>>
>> Yes.
>
> They can play all 50s music for all I care.

I can only think there must be a language barrier between us. You write
words that seem like they should make sense, but after I read them, I
have no idea what you're trying to say.

[jo...@johndoherty.com]

BTW, the interviewer, Terri Gross discovered she grew up 4 blocks from CK.

>
> I'm also delighted that King was invited to and visited the Dakota
> where John could explain/apologize for his bad behavior. Nice to read
> that they cleared the air before he died.
>
> I did read an article which summarized some portions of King's
> autobiography. Sounds like she had an interesting life. According to
> the article, she moved away from the "glamor" of Hollywood and
> California and instead chose to live a "working class life" in a very
> rural area in the midwest. King lived a down to earth, hard working
> life, avoiding some of the excesses of fame such as drugs.

Actually, King moved to Idaho, which is west not midwest.

She was very generous to all her collaborators, and also acknowledged Goffin's mental illness as part of what got between them.

[globular]

On 18/04/2012 4:08 AM, Nil wrote:
> On 17 Apr 2012, globular<takecar...@gmail.com> wrote in
> rec.music.beatles:
>
>> On 16/04/2012 5:13 PM, Nil wrote:
>>> Why not? They didn't stop playing '62 records on New Years Day
>>> 1963.
>>>
>>> The song was used because it was germane to the story.
>>
>> Not good enough.
>
> I really don't get your point. What's your objection to "Mad Men" using
> a song from a couple of years earlier than the current year of the
> story? It's something that would have still been playing on the radio,
> and it effectively commented on the plot.

Because it seems like a bias for early 60s music. The series did begin
in 1960 and its future wasn't certain then. An early episode got
criticism for closing with a Dylan song from about 2 years later, near
the same time period as the current mentioned song. The defence was it
was meant to represent what the future held for the characters.

Also, things did change quickly in the 60s. Songs about a year old were
often called 'oldies'.

[jo...@johndoherty.com]

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:55:37 PM UTC-4, globular wrote:

> Because it seems like a bias for early 60s music. The series did begin
> in 1960 and its future wasn't certain then. An early episode got
> criticism for closing with a Dylan song from about 2 years later, near
> the same time period as the current mentioned song. The defence was it
> was meant to represent what the future held for the characters.

Who made a defense? We're talking about a song over the closing credits, not coming out of a radio while the characters are listening. You have already jumped from the actual narrative to a step back, like going from the story to the storyteller.

And here's a news flash-- almost all music in TV shows & movies is written long after the period they are depicting. "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" for instance, from "Pat Garret & Billy the Kid" was not written in the 1890s. ;-)

Matt Weiner makes an obsession, almost a fetish, of avoiding anachronisms, but he wasn't alive until a year after the current date, so he occasionally makes small errors. The choice of a song over the closing credits hardly qualifies.

This week's show included an opening scene of a high school girl in driver's ed class. She's wearing bare legs and sandals. Even though it's August, my wife who was eleven that year, says nice girls wouldn't have worn sandals outside of the beach or very informal situations, and would not have gone out to a class like that without pantyhose in that year. Soon it would change, but not in 1966.

>
> Also, things did change quickly in the 60s. Songs about a year old were
> often called 'oldies'.

This was not the case as I recall. The rise of FM radio came within a few years, and it was a golden era of radio, where many styles and eras of music would be played side by side.

This particular song, "He Hit Me (& It Felt Like A Kiss)" was chosen for a number of reasons, I'd wager, and one of them is that it represents s style of music that was becoming old real quickly, as well as a style of thought that was also being questioned.

That episode entitled "Mystery Date" was one of the best hours of TV or movies I've seen in years. It was all about the rules of attraction & the game of interaction between men & women. The "spec"ter or the unnamed Richard Speck (and the producer of the above song, Phil "Spec"tor who decades later would later be sentenced to life for murdering a woman) and his mass murder of young women in their "short skirts" as Nana Pauline observed, floated like a poison mist over the proceedings. new York in the mid 60s has peaked and things are spiraling into destruction and coming unstrung. The rest of the decade holds the Manson murders, assassinations, the Tet Offensive and Altamont. Don is realizing he's morphed into an old guy, and has to work twice as hard to figure out what the kids want. He pours himself a glass of brown water and after a glance, gulps it down to take his aspirin.

The fairy tales of Cinderella , Sleeping Beauty & Snow White all got a good airing out, with the storylines of Don, Peggy & Dawn and Joan & Greg. Even the pitch to the shoe company suggested women want to caught by the assailant.

The recurring motif of the "girl who survived" the Speck killings became an iconic bell that was rung several times.

To get hung up on a four year old song used in the closing credits reminds me of Wilde's definition of a cynic: "someone who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing".

[who?]

On Apr 16, 2:13 am, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2012, globular <takecarebew...@gmail.com> wrote in

> rec.music.beatles:
>
> > On 16/04/2012 11:07 AM, Nil wrote:
>
> >> Huh?? What do mean? A "different type of nostalgia" than what? A
> >> "different 60s" than what other '60s?
>
> > It was self evident.
>
> Not to me. I still don't know what "a different kind of nostalgia" is.

A different kind of hallucination someone of the past went through
besides ourselves.

:-)