Why did Linda McCartney speak with a British accent?
Wishz
probably so as to not alienate US listeners, but before that, what
I've heard of interviews and such, she spoke with this fake British
accent that was pretty annoying.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
I look at Americans like Terry Gilliam, for example, who moved to
England at an earlier age and lived there for a long time, and never
got a British accent. I don't know how long they lived there, but the
Copeland brothers Miles and Stewart) didn't come out speaking with a
British accent either.
Richard Lester totally speaks with a British accent though, but hasn't
he lived there forever since he was very young?
I know... trivial stuff, but that always rubbed me the wrong way. I
know she was Paul's wife and he loved her and all, but I'm glad she's
not onstage messing up her two synthesizer parts and ruining the songs
(Jet and Band On The Run), and adding unnecessary backing vocals.
paramucho2
>By the time Oobu Joobu came out, she had toned it down considerably
>probably so as to not alienate US listeners, but before that, what
>I've heard of interviews and such, she spoke with this fake British
>accent that was pretty annoying.
>
>Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
>until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
>British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
I came back from nine months in America with an American accent.
Well, that's what my friends and family said. I doubt any American
would have thought that.
--
Ian
Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine
JLW44
>
>Well, that's what my friends and family said. I doubt any American
>would have thought that.
I had a friend spend 2 weeks in California and came home talking 'funny.' We
lived in NYC and no one talked like that here so it was very noticeable.
sense to me.com
Why did Linda McCartney speak with a British accent?
Why did Kamakazie pilots wear crash helmets?
saki
@posting.google.com:
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
> until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
> British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
My impression was that Linda McCartney had more of a phonetic inflection,
not an accent. Not all her speech pattern seemed to be affected, merely
certain words and rhythms.
Even though general pronunciation seems to be fixed at about age thirteen
or fourteen it's still possible to be influenced by the region where one
lives or the people with whom one resides later in life (Linda was in her
late twenties when she began living in the UK). It may not have been
deliberate on Linda's part but rather a natural (perhaps subconcious or
socialized) response to her environment.
There have been some studies on this phenomenon. One that I know of
involves studying the accent change in Glaswegian, where the indigenous
accent (almost impenetrable to those not used to it) has apparently been
influenced by Estuary English, or the style of English spoken in
southeastern England, perhaps via media infiltration (TV, radio, etc.).
Again I don't think that Glaswegians were looking to lose their
distinctive speech and I don't expect that Linda was trying to put on
airs. When you spend time in an environment not your own you can find
that you're influenced by what you hear. I once spent a week in Houston
and ended up with with a pronounced drawl, not deliberate at all. It
disappeared after a short time when I returned to California, where most
folks think I sound Canadian.
> Richard Lester totally speaks with a British accent though, but hasn't
> he lived there forever since he was very young?
Lester went to England in the nineteen fifties, when he was in his early
twenties. Again I hear a phonetic inflection with Mr. Lester, not a
complete change in speech patterns. Enough of the Philadelphia lad still
gets through.
What's really odd, to my ears, is to see Julian Lennon or Dhani Harrison
speak. Both have sufficient resemblance to their famous fathers to give
one pause but both were raised in England's south and have more or less
RP (what used to be called Received Pronunciation or "standard" English
accents). I don't hear Liverpool in either of them, not surprisingly
Brian Epstein, who grew up (like the Fabs) in Liverpool but whose accent
was quite posh, may have had other sociological reasons for altering his
own speech. His family was more upper-middle-class than even the middle-
class Lennon and the Epsteins likely encouraged Brian and his brother
Clive to aspire to a more standard style of speech. At the time (the
early sixties) a Northern accent was considered a liability till folks
like the "kitchen sink" film and theater writers---and the Fabs
themselves---made it more appealing.
----
"Just what does he say?"
---------------------
sa...@ucla.edu
Lizz Holmans
Some folks pick up accents like parrots to words. TMIL can speak in
numerous British regional accents and Aussie and be perfectly
convincing in all of them--and he's not doing in consciously. He has a
good ear for accents.
Lizz 'He is, however, severely singing impaired' Holmans
--
Boys is easier, and if you have sons it's worth trying for three.
Nanny Ogg
Swjenkins1
>that you're influenced by what you hear
No kidding - after five minutes in this newsgroup I'm garbage-mouthed for
hours. Thank gawd it wears off! ;-) ;-) ;-)
RAF
Not possible. We don't have an accent. It's y'all that talk funny.
RAF
>Why did Kamakazie pilots wear crash helmets?
Why do geese fly south for the winter?
Runnnerr
>
>
>>Why did Kamakazie pilots wear crash helmets?
>
>
>Why do geese fly south for the winter?
>
Why don't we do it in the road?
PC-31
"Lizz Holmans" <di...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:udiq5vk0qh9qu8alr...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Feb 2003 22:52:32 GMT, jl...@aol.com (JLW44) wrote:
>
> >>I came back from nine months in America with an American accent.
> >>
> >>Well, that's what my friends and family said. I doubt any American
> >>would have thought that.
> >
> >I had a friend spend 2 weeks in California and came home talking 'funny.'
We
> >lived in NYC and no one talked like that here so it was very noticeable.
>
> Some folks pick up accents like parrots to words. TMIL can speak in
> numerous British regional accents and Aussie and be perfectly
> convincing in all of them
LOL! sure, as long a no real aussie is listening.:)
there is actually nothing funnier than someone attempting an "aussie
accent", especially yanks and brits.
in fact, i've yet to hear a decent aussie accent from any non-"ossie".
paramucho2
Even some native Australian speakers have problems :-)
RAF
I need to see a pic before we even go there.
Mister Charlie
"Wishz" <wi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6725bb86.03022...@posting.google.com...
> By the time Oobu Joobu came out, she had toned it down considerably
> probably so as to not alienate US listeners, but before that, what
> I've heard of interviews and such, she spoke with this fake British
> accent that was pretty annoying.
Nice of you to automatically assume it was fake. When immersed in a
differing culture most people begin to assimilate unconsciously...that's
how babies learn to talk.
extraone
Hmmm. Olivia Harrison has lived in England since the late 70's and she
doesn't seem to have aquired an accent.
Of course, my sisters spent a summer at a camp in South Carolina and came
back talkin' all funny y'all...
Susan
extr...@nospam.com wrote on 2/26/03 10:21 PM:
Those South Carolinians have a heavy accent!
Mister Charlie
"extraone" <extr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ouf7a.279077$vm2.212499@rwcrnsc54...
Not everyone is susceptible or open to it.
>
>
robertandrews
>How could she have acquired a British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such
a short amount of time?
That's not unusual for immigrants & people who live in two countries, their
spouses & children. The Osbourne kids have strong mixed accents. Madonna
has developed something of a English accent (though maybe some of it is put
on). In America, a cultivated English accent is often viewed as elitist.
That's not true for Irish accents, Scottish, Liverpool, Cockney, etc. Had
Linda spoke perfect Liverpudlian, I suspect it wouldn't have rubbed you the
wrong way.
maclen
another angle. I moved to California from Central America when I was 13,
and have lived here since (20 years now). There is a large Hispanic
community in Northern California where I live, from everywhere basically,
but Mexican in its majority. A lot of the non-Mexican Hispanic immigrants,
for some reason or another, adopt a Mexican accent and way of speaking, but
never sound like true "Mexicans"; perhaps sometimes it's done consciously,
perhaps sometimes it's just natural. In the case of my family (parents,
younger siblings and myself), we still talk the way people do in our native
country with no trace of a Mexican accent. To be honest, sometimes, some
people sound pretty ridiculous when they are purposely trying to change
their accent, and it can rub the wrong way.
Of course, generalizations can't be made, but I can see Wishz's point to an
extent. Wishz's point is particularly interesting to me, given my own
experience with the matter, in a different language.
Since the original post, I went and watched bits off my Wingspan DVD, and
bits from my Monty Python A&E documentary DVD, and it's true; Terry Gilliam
sounds very American, but one can tell he lives or has lived in England;
Linda on the other hand, sounds like she may have even tried to cultivate
her "British" accent. Hearing the two of them is very contrasting.
maclen
"robertandrews" wrote
The Mutable Rynosseros
<b3jnlu$aum$0...@pita.alt.net>.
In response:
Just for the sake of a cackle, must dig out the old Python "Australian
Table Wines" skit. Those accents were the best bit of it.
Ryno
--
"The older I grow, the more I distrust
the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom."
- H. L. Mencken. .
Ross Clement
:>I came back from nine months in America with an American accent.
After growing up in New Zealand, I spent four years in Japan. Upon my return,
people in New Zealand had great difficulty placing my 'obviously foreign'
accent.
Cheers,
Ross-c
redskys@nite
I've spent the last 11 years living in Asia and in that span of time have
spent maybe two months in America.
One time when I visited the states people asked me why am I speaking with a
California accent.
I had no answer as I never thought that my Nebraska accent had changed.
The last time I went back people asked me why was I speaking with an
English accent.
.
That's been four years ago so I can't imagine what kind of accent they will
hear
next time I visit. I have no plans to return anytime soon so when I do show
up
it's gotta be far out. Probably something like a Mars type accent.
dang
all that writing and not a word about the Fab 4
well let me just add I really like the song ' I'll Be Back"
Douglas North
accent", >especially yanks and brits.
Oh, I dunno, there're some appaulingly bad American accents in old
"Doctor Who" episodes. "OK, you guys..." is how they start most of their
sentences. And what about the "Waldorf Salad" guy from Fawlty Towers?
But nothing will beat Dick Van Dyke's "Cockney" accent in Mary Poppins.
Nothing. =)
Mister Charlie
"Douglas North" <Pample...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10992-3E5...@storefull-2333.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Agreed!! Absolutely inexcusable.
As to California, there IS no accent here. It is in fact a LACK of an
accent that people seem to notice.
>
Lizz Holmans
(Douglas North) wrote:
Oh, I dunno, there're some appaulingly bad American accents in old
>"Doctor Who" episodes. "OK, you guys..." is how they start most of their
>sentences. And what about the "Waldorf Salad" guy from Fawlty Towers?
We go to the theatre a lot, and the number of wandering American
accents on stage is appalling. Just pick a region and stay there,
folks--not all Americans talk like Southerners. Not even Lord Olivier
could do a convincing American, although Bob Hoskins pulled it off
magnificently (yes, that is a double entendre, thank you) in 'Who
Framed Roger Rabbit?'
>
>But nothing will beat Dick Van Dyke's "Cockney" accent in Mary Poppins.
>Nothing. =)
You don't know how many times I've heard that very remark since I
moved Over Here. Nobody mentions Gwyneth Paltrow or Renee
Icantspellherlastname, who sound quite authentic.
Lizz 'Of course I can play a heterosexual--I'm an actor!' Holmans
CharlesBunch995
accent. She said to John, "that's quite an English accent Linda has." To
which John replied, "not bad for a JAP (Jewish American Princess)."
Chuck
Rich Forman
richforman
Ehtue
>> But nothing will beat Dick Van Dyke's "Cockney" accent in Mary
> Poppins.
>> Nothing. =)
>
> Agreed!! Absolutely inexcusable.
>
> As to California, there IS no accent here. It is in fact a LACK of an
> accent that people seem to notice.
That makes no sense, Charlie. Of course there's an accent in Calif. I think
what you mean is that the California accent is identical to the "TV-
American" accent, or what people think of as "standard American".
-Ehtue
Mister Charlie
"Ehtue" <eh...@aa.com> wrote in message
news:czu7a.260019$iG3.29835@sccrnsc02...
discernible* accent.
Ehtue
>> > As to California, there IS no accent here. It is in fact a LACK of
> an
>> > accent that people seem to notice.
>>
>> That makes no sense, Charlie. Of course there's an accent in Calif. I
> think
>> what you mean is that the California accent is identical to the "TV-
>> American" accent, or what people think of as "standard American".
>>
> That's correct. And the American broadcasting standard is *no
> discernible* accent.
Heh.
robertandrews
>Well, in Wishz's defense, I can sort of understand his point of view from
another angle. I moved to California from Central America when I was 13,
and have lived here since (20 years now). There is a large Hispanic
community in Northern California where I live, from everywhere basically,
but Mexican in its majority. A lot of the non-Mexican Hispanic immigrants,
for some reason or another, adopt a Mexican accent and way of speaking, but
never sound like true "Mexicans"; perhaps sometimes it's done consciously,
perhaps sometimes it's just natural.
Most California & Southwest accents are heavily Mexican influenced. Listen
to the average white kid from LA or San Diego. The LA accent is mostly Okie
& Mexican. Even the San Francisco accent is somewhat Mexican.
>In the case of my family (parents, younger siblings and myself), we still
talk the way people do in our native country with no trace of a Mexican
accent.
After 20 years, no trace of a foreign accent in your native language? That
would surprise me.
RAF
California accent is identical to the "TV- American" accent, or what people
think of as "standard American".
There are also regional California accents, such as The Surfer Dude and The
Valley girl.
RAF
the average white kid from LA or San Diego. The LA accent is mostly Okie &
Mexican. Even the San Francisco accent is somewhat Mexican.
I don't think so. Haven't heard that in my kids or their freinds.
moondog
"saki" <sa...@ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns932E996852...@169.232.48.140...
> wi...@yahoo.com (Wishz) wrote in news:6725bb86.0302261438.2fe67143
> @posting.google.com:
>
> > Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
> > until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
> > British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
>
> not an accent. Not all her speech pattern seemed to be affected, merely
> certain words and rhythms.
>
> Even though general pronunciation seems to be fixed at about age thirteen
> or fourteen it's still possible to be influenced by the region where one
> lives or the people with whom one resides later in life (Linda was in her
> late twenties when she began living in the UK). It may not have been
> deliberate on Linda's part but rather a natural (perhaps subconcious or
> socialized) response to her environment.
>
> There have been some studies on this phenomenon. One that I know of
> involves studying the accent change in Glaswegian, where the indigenous
> accent (almost impenetrable to those not used to it) has apparently been
> influenced by Estuary English, or the style of English spoken in
> southeastern England, perhaps via media infiltration (TV, radio, etc.).
>
> Again I don't think that Glaswegians were looking to lose their
> distinctive speech and I don't expect that Linda was trying to put on
> airs. When you spend time in an environment not your own you can find
> that you're influenced by what you hear.
Compare/contrast Greg Norman and Olivia Newton-John. Greg picked up an
American inflection, Livvie never did. I believe the phenomenon relates to
the part of the brain associated with mimicry, which some people excel at -
these people are prone to subconsciously picking up and adopting the tones
that surround them (possibly because they find themselves misunderstood or
having to repeat themselves when using their native twang). I reckon.(I'm
the mimic/Greg Norman type, btw)
Globalsearch
>From: wi...@yahoo.com (Wishz)
Many times in the media, Linda's accent was described as "mid-Atlantic." I
don't know where you live, but many people on the East coast have vowel sounds
less broad than in West Coast or Rocky Mountain states. Most notable is the
short "a" vowel. My East coast friends don't pronounce "cat" with as "bright"
a vowel sound as I would; their facial muscles are more relaxed. To a
westerner,
that might sound British. Also, some states chew their "r's" more than others.
One person I met from Georgia used softer "r's" so she sounded more like a
Brit when she said words like "car." Over the years, Linda lost some of the
nasality she had which was characteristic of New York. In general, when facial
muscles relax, the result is a more British sound (which is conducive to good
singing, incidentally).
Carol
robertandrews
>Compare/contrast Greg Norman and Olivia Newton-John. Greg picked up an
American inflection, Livvie never did.
Last time I checked, she's running about 33.3% American.
RAF
don't know where you live, but many people on the East coast have vowel sounds
less broad than in West Coast or Rocky Mountain states. Most notable is the
short "a" vowel. My East coast friends don't pronounce "cat" with as "bright"
a vowel sound as I would; their facial muscles are more relaxed. To a
westerner, that might sound British. Also, some states chew their "r's" more
than others.
> One person I met from Georgia used softer "r's" so she sounded more like a
Brit when she said words like "car." Over the years, Linda lost some of the
nasality she had which was characteristic of New York. In general, when facial
muscles relax, the result is a more British sound (which is conducive to good
singing, incidentally).
> Carol
Quite the linguist, you are.
Mister Charlie
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ivw7a.37479$ep5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "maclen" <mac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Well, in Wishz's defense, I can sort of understand his point of view
from
> another angle. I moved to California from Central America when I was
13,
> and have lived here since (20 years now). There is a large Hispanic
> community in Northern California where I live, from everywhere
basically,
> but Mexican in its majority. A lot of the non-Mexican Hispanic
immigrants,
> for some reason or another, adopt a Mexican accent and way of
speaking, but
> never sound like true "Mexicans"; perhaps sometimes it's done
consciously,
> perhaps sometimes it's just natural.
>
> Most California & Southwest accents are heavily Mexican influenced.
Listen
> to the average white kid from LA or San Diego. The LA accent is
mostly Okie
> & Mexican. Even the San Francisco accent is somewhat Mexican.
That is absolutely false. And a rather insane statement... unless the
people happen to be Mexican.
Mister Charlie
"RAF" <righta...@aol.comfortable> wrote in message
news:20030227180815...@mb-fz.aol.com...
Both basically the same, from the same general area. I WAS
generalizing, as obviously there are the Mexicans, the Chinese, the
African-Americans, etc. etc.
Most Californians that are not from another country speak a non-accented
sort of way, as a rule.
robertandrews
>That is absolutely false.
No, it's absolutely true. Assuming you're a California native, you
apparently can't hear your own accent, or care to learn where it comes from.
Unfortunately, that's somewhat typical of white people born in California.
>And a rather insane statement... unless the people happen to be Mexican.
I said "Okie & Mexican." Both are present, to some degree, in many
California accents.
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
> >That is absolutely false.
>
> No, it's absolutely true.
No. It is not.
Assuming you're a California native, you
> apparently can't hear your own accent, or care to learn where it comes
from.
> Unfortunately, that's somewhat typical of white people born in
California.
And making grand pronouncements and assumptions is typical of bombastic
people who are too enamored of their own incorrect opinions. I was born
and raised in Illinois, and moved out here when I was 17. Eventually
through natural process I lost the 'Chicaga' accent and formed a more
normal, neutral sort of speaking pronounciation. When I went into
broadcasting I had no need to work on eliminating tell-tale regional
accents because I had none. Same as everyone I've known or talked to in
any capacity for the last 30+ years.
>
> >And a rather insane statement... unless the people happen to be
Mexican.
>
> I said "Okie & Mexican." Both are present, to some degree, in many
> California accents.
They are present in some. Apparently you seem to think any immigrants
own the native accent? Bizarre idea, and completely wrong. Okies spoke
Okie, and the Californians at the time would have died before letting
themselves sound the same (ever see/read Grapes of Wrath?). Mexican is
no more prevalent among white people than black street talk is by
kids...it's adopted by choice and for fashion.
Most Californians...and I never said 'natives'...do not have a
discernible accent. Barring ethnic birth origins (Chinese, Mexican,
etc.).
>
>
>
Susan
smoker...@myway.com wrote on 2/28/03 11:48 AM:
>
> "robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AJD7a.41538$ep5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
>>> That is absolutely false.
>>
>> No, it's absolutely true.
>
> No. It is not.
>
>
> Assuming you're a California native, you
>> apparently can't hear your own accent, or care to learn where it comes
> from.
>> Unfortunately, that's somewhat typical of white people born in
> California.
>
> And making grand pronouncements and assumptions is typical of bombastic
> people who are too enamored of their own incorrect opinions. I was born
> and raised in Illinois, and moved out here when I was 17. Eventually
> through natural process I lost the 'Chicaga' accent and formed a more
> normal, neutral sort of speaking pronounciation. When I went into
> broadcasting I had no need to work on eliminating tell-tale regional
> accents because I had none. Same as everyone I've known or talked to in
> any capacity for the last 30+ years.
>
It's true, I've heard Charlie, he has no accent at all. Just an incredibly
sexy voice! :)
Larry G
> Both basically the same, from the same general area. I WAS
> generalizing, as obviously there are the Mexicans, the Chinese, the
> African-Americans, etc. etc.
>
> Most Californians that are not from another country speak a non-accented
> sort of way, as a rule.
The Midwestern (Chicago) and Southern accents have had their effect though,
at least in inland areas.
Larry
Larry G
> discernible accent. Barring ethnic birth origins (Chinese, Mexican,
> etc.).
Except that Standard American is in itself an accent. ;-) The British will
tell you that the RP, posh accent has "no accent" and is "neutral".
Everybody has an accent of some kind.
Larry
Douglas North
>It is in fact a LACK of an accent that >people seem to notice.
Or the slightly nasal inflection, and the constant saying of "hella
kewl".
"Encino, maan, is TO-tally bitchin...'"
=)
Mister Charlie
"Larry G" <thela...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3o7dc$1o8v7o$1...@ID-37509.news.dfncis.de...
Mister Charlie
Heathen country. ;-)
robertandrews
>I was born and raised in Illinois, and moved out here when I was 17.
Eventually through natural process I lost the 'Chicaga' accent and formed a
more normal, neutral sort of speaking pronounciation.
Normal? That's a strange word to use here. Perhaps you mean monotone &
uninflected, common to many California accents.
>Mexican is no more prevalent among white people than black street talk is
by kids...it's adopted by choice and for fashion.
Nonsense, Charlie. It's transmitted by different cultures mixing together.
I speak English with Mexican & black people everyday. If I date a Mexican
or black woman, it's only natural to adopt some of her accent, expressions &
way of speaking. And vice-versa.
>Most Californians...and I never said 'natives'...do not have a discernible
accent. Barring ethnic birth origins (Chinese, Mexican,
etc.).
Most transplants (like yourself) will retain a fair amount of their
childhood accent, even after many years. If by "non-ethnic" you mean white,
that leaves us with white California natives. They all have discernible
accents of various kinds.
Tom Hartman
> On 26 Feb 2003 22:52:32 GMT, jl...@aol.com (JLW44) wrote:
>
> >>I came back from nine months in America with an American accent.
> >>
> >>Well, that's what my friends and family said. I doubt any American
> >>would have thought that.
> >
> >I had a friend spend 2 weeks in California and came home talking 'funny.' We
> >lived in NYC and no one talked like that here so it was very noticeable.
>
> Some folks pick up accents like parrots to words. TMIL can speak in
> numerous British regional accents and Aussie and be perfectly
> convincing in all of them--and he's not doing in consciously. He has a
> good ear for accents.
>
> Lizz 'He is, however, severely singing impaired' Holmans
After a three month stay in England, when we got back I spoke with an
accent. I was going through tapes the other day where my band and I
were being interviewed and I sounded half US half British. Strange;)
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
> >I was born and raised in Illinois, and moved out here when I was 17.
> Eventually through natural process I lost the 'Chicaga' accent and
formed a
> more normal, neutral sort of speaking pronounciation.
>
> Normal? That's a strange word to use here. Perhaps you mean monotone
&
> uninflected, common to many California accents.
OK, if that word suits you better, sure. Tho it needn't be monotone
necessarily, just not laden with regional backwash.
>
> >Mexican is no more prevalent among white people than black street
talk is
> by kids...it's adopted by choice and for fashion.
>
> Nonsense, Charlie. It's transmitted by different cultures mixing
together.
> I speak English with Mexican & black people everyday. If I date a
Mexican
> or black woman, it's only natural to adopt some of her accent,
expressions &
> way of speaking. And vice-versa.
Which is you. Has nothing to do with an entire state of Anglos.
>
> >Most Californians...and I never said 'natives'...do not have a
discernible
> accent. Barring ethnic birth origins (Chinese, Mexican,
> etc.).
>
> Most transplants (like yourself) will retain a fair amount of their
> childhood accent, even after many years. If by "non-ethnic" you mean
white,
> that leaves us with white California natives. They all have
discernible
> accents of various kinds.
Again, you're dead wrong. This is misinformed opinion on your part, and
nothing more.
>
>
redskys@nite
for the first time since i came to RMB in early 97
I admitted I was from Nebraska.
in the posts i submitted over the years I always reffered to my
homeland as the sticks or cowboy country or something like that
and shit not a soul in the world noticed.
damn first time i swore in a fucken post too.
i do try to keep a low profile but their use to be people in here who
noticed such things
ahh shit goddamn hell anyway
i am just going to keep to my mp3's
the only thing good here in RMB lately is lots of cool Beatle links!!
i mean shit we are talking about a dead ladies accent fer christsakes
shuit ya gotta be a dickhead in here to get noticed and i am sure this here
fucken post aint near dickhead enough to get even a lame responce.
a shit ya'll cheers and all the best and all the have a nice day sort of
crap
i gots to finish this bottle of chivas befor the fucken sun comes up..
nope nobody got the irony or mockery of it all either just the pathectic
nature!!! nuk nuk
john lennon me bloody guru don't ya fucken
know................................
nope that wasn't rsan speaken tqwas the spirits
"RAF" <righta...@aol.comfortable> wrote in message
news:20030227222904...@mb-mj.aol.com...
Susan
wrote on 3/1/03 9:28 AM:
> ahh shit yall
> for the first time since i came to RMB in early 97
> I admitted I was from Nebraska.
> in the posts i submitted over the years I always reffered to my
> homeland as the sticks or cowboy country or something like that
> and shit not a soul in the world noticed.
> damn first time i swore in a fucken post too.
> i do try to keep a low profile but their use to be people in here who
> noticed such things
> ahh shit goddamn hell anyway
> i am just going to keep to my mp3's
> the only thing good here in RMB lately is lots of cool Beatle links!!
> i mean shit we are talking about a dead ladies accent fer christsakes
> shuit ya gotta be a dickhead in here to get noticed and i am sure this here
> fucken post aint near dickhead enough to get even a lame responce.
> a shit ya'll cheers and all the best and all the have a nice day sort of
> crap
> i gots to finish this bottle of chivas befor the fucken sun comes up..
>
> nope nobody got the irony or mockery of it all either just the pathectic
> nature!!! nuk nuk
> john lennon me bloody guru don't ya fucken
> know................................
> nope that wasn't rsan speaken tqwas the spirits
>
The spirit of chivas?
Dyuob Poltice
>By the time Oobu Joobu came out, she had toned it down considerably
>probably so as to not alienate US listeners, but before that, what
>I've heard of interviews and such, she spoke with this fake British
>accent that was pretty annoying.
>
>Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
>until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
>British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
>
>I look at Americans like Terry Gilliam, for example, who moved to
>England at an earlier age and lived there for a long time, and never
>got a British accent. I don't know how long they lived there, but the
>Copeland brothers Miles and Stewart) didn't come out speaking with a
>British accent either.
>
>Richard Lester totally speaks with a British accent though, but hasn't
>he lived there forever since he was very young?
>
>I know... trivial stuff, but that always rubbed me the wrong way. I
>know she was Paul's wife and he loved her and all, but I'm glad she's
>not onstage messing up her two synthesizer parts and ruining the songs
>(Jet and Band On The Run), and adding unnecessary backing vocals.
My mom and her sister were from Texas, (we lived in Phoenix) and even
though neither had an accent apart, when ever they got together they
both had an accent. People do that.
============================
RAF
fucken post aint near dickhead enough to get even a lame responce.
Dickhead!
Mister Charlie
"RAF" <righta...@aol.comfortable> wrote in message
> >shuit ya gotta be a dickhead in here to get noticed and i am sure
this here
> fucken post aint near dickhead enough to get even a lame responce.
>
Someone still wants to be breastfed, and resents the world because of
it. These cretins so desperate for attention really are nothing more
than pathetic.
RBigbonita
>> until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
>> British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
here's something to think about. my parents (now divorced) exibit the same type
of effect. they met in the military. my father is of pueto rican descent, first
generation born in the continental us (bronx, ny). my mother is a mix
(primarily irish descent) who was born and raised in muskogee, oklahoma. my
mother now lives in new england and my father lives in northern virginia and
both have lived where they are for years. they both talk with an accent that
you'd expect the opposite one to have. just as an aside, i came into this world
taking after my mother's side (kind of irish looking-blonde- blue eyes) and
can't speak but the most basic spanish. yet my last name of nieves. lol
robertandrews
>Which is you. Has nothing to do with an entire state of Anglos.
Not to belabor the point, but we can't have an "entire state of Anglos" when
they're outnumbered by minorities. White interaction with non-whites is
hardly the exception to the rule. But despite your claims of ethic purity,
even in-bred Californianglos who shun contact with Asians, Mexicans & Blacks
have identifiable accents.
It's no surprise that Linda McCartney developed an English accent. Had she
married David Crosby & moved to LA, she would have spoken more like a Los
Angelino. David Crosby has an exaggerated California accent & manner of
speech.
Perhaps the better question is how the California/Western accent became
something like the American standard. The short answer: as the population
of the West exploded, & as more national leaders, actors & singers adopted
the California accent, our standards changed.
Larry G
> British will
> > tell you that the RP, posh accent has "no accent" and is "neutral".
> > Everybody has an accent of some kind.
> >
> Pure semantics.
Well if you mean that the majority of Californians sound something like
Standard American, then possibly. But, even Standard American is an accent.
We tend to think of our own accent as "accentless" hehe, but there's always
one there, even if we cannot, ourselves, detect it.
But even in California, you have regional variations: the northerners sound
more like Midwesterners and have a speech akin to that of Oregon and
Washington. The L.A. and Orange County coastal folks have the typical
Southern California accent, and inland areas have influences from both the
South, and the Chicagoland area with its characteristic flat a's. There are
many exceptions to the rule of course, but if I had to generalize, that's
how I'd characterize it.
Larry
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
> >Which is you. Has nothing to do with an entire state of Anglos.
>
> Not to belabor the point, but we can't have an "entire state of
Anglos" when
> they're outnumbered by minorities.
Another incredible statement. The whites are NOT outnumbered by
minorities.
White interaction with non-whites is
> hardly the exception to the rule. But despite your claims of ethic
purity,
> even in-bred Californianglos who shun contact with Asians, Mexicans &
Blacks
> have identifiable accents.
According to whom?
>
> It's no surprise that Linda McCartney developed an English accent.
Had she
> married David Crosby & moved to LA, she would have spoken more like a
Los
> Angelino. David Crosby has an exaggerated California accent & manner
of
> speech.
David Crosby is not the best subject in the world to quote for much of
anything.
>
> Perhaps the better question is how the California/Western accent
became
> something like the American standard. The short answer: as the
population
> of the West exploded, & as more national leaders, actors & singers
adopted
> the California accent, our standards changed.
Well, colorful idea and all. Clearly you have convinced yourself that
your pet theories are gospel. TV started big in NY...why no NY accents?
Why wasn't NY used as the broadcasting template? Movies are West
Coast...and were started and run by immigrants.
So where does this 'West Coast' accent come from...the Indians?
Nah, you made a silly statement and now will defend it to the death with
no proof whatsoever. Believe what you like but it won't change any one
else's reality.
>
>
Mister Charlie
Larry G
> sound
> > more like Midwesterners and have a speech akin to that of Oregon and
> > Washington. The L.A. and Orange County coastal folks have the typical
> > Southern California accent, and inland areas have influences from both
> the
> > South, and the Chicagoland area with its characteristic flat a's.
> There are
> > many exceptions to the rule of course, but if I had to generalize,
> that's
> > how I'd characterize it.
> >
> And, like robert, you'd be wrong.
I'm afraid not. Everyone has an accent, even if its the majority speech of
an area, or dialect standard.
As for your claim that Californians have an "okie and Mexican" mix, you
might have a point. I think Mexican Spanish has a greater influence on
Anglo speech more than is credited. My little cousins (Anglo) spent their
early years in a Mexican (California) neighborhood. They had the neatest
Irish/Mexican like lilt to their voice. Unfortunately, that disappeared,
when they later moved to an Anglo environment.
But, it really depends where you are in California. As there are many
Mexican Americans who influence the speech, there are many Chicago-area
immigrants, and many from Oklahoma. All of these have contributed their
accents to the various parts of California. Some regions show signs from
one or more of these areas than others, it just depends where you are.
If your in Riverside, you're more likely to hear a Southern inflection in
speech than in Costa Mesa, for example.
Larry
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote in message ...
> > > But even in California, you have regional variations: the
northerners
> > sound
> > > more like Midwesterners and have a speech akin to that of Oregon
and
> > > Washington. The L.A. and Orange County coastal folks have the
typical
> > > Southern California accent, and inland areas have influences from
both
> > the
> > > South, and the Chicagoland area with its characteristic flat a's.
> > There are
> > > many exceptions to the rule of course, but if I had to generalize,
> > that's
> > > how I'd characterize it.
> > >
> > And, like robert, you'd be wrong.
>
> I'm afraid not. Everyone has an accent, even if its the majority
speech of
> an area, or dialect standard.
The semantic game you employ to decribe accent is worthless wordplay.
In America there is as I said a LACK of a regional accent in California
(and quite possibly Oregon and Washington as well, maybe even more
western states, I haven't been to them all). This is a fact. Whether
that lack is in itself an accent is not something I would argue about as
it is so trivially related to the actual point.
>
> As for your claim that Californians have an "okie and Mexican" mix,
you
> might have a point. I think Mexican Spanish has a greater influence
on
> Anglo speech more than is credited. My little cousins (Anglo) spent
their
> early years in a Mexican (California) neighborhood. They had the
neatest
> Irish/Mexican like lilt to their voice. Unfortunately, that
disappeared,
> when they later moved to an Anglo environment.
Firstly I was not the one to make that claim, that was the other guy. I
tend to refute it for the most part (certainly there will be overlaps
and shades of grey anywhere).
Secondly, all you (as with robert) are relating is very limited personal
anecdotes.
>
> But, it really depends where you are in California. As there are many
> Mexican Americans who influence the speech, there are many
Chicago-area
> immigrants, and many from Oklahoma. All of these have contributed
their
> accents to the various parts of California.
No they haven't. Why, when Linda McCartney went to England, didn't
everyone she came in constant contact with talk like a NY? It's a human
feature of language and when *immersed* in an environment where one is
bombarded with an alien accent, said subject is more times than not
going to absorb and recreate the accent of those around them. Someone
moving from Chicago to California today is not going to influence a
soul, but BE influenced by those around them (depending on the amount of
time that person is here).
Some regions show signs from
> one or more of these areas than others, it just depends where you are.
Not really. East LA has a strong Mexican flavor because there is a
large population of Hispanics there. You won't find any enclave of Okie
beyond a family in the whole state.
>
> If your in Riverside, you're more likely to hear a Southern inflection
in
> speech than in Costa Mesa, for example.
Gawd. Right.
redskys@nite
Lol
heck didn't even wake up with a head ache
robertandrews
>Another incredible statement. The whites are NOT outnumbered by
minorities.
"The 2000 Census was the first U.S. decennial survey in which the majority
of California's population (53.3 percent) identified as non-White."
http://ccsre.stanford.edu/reports/exec_summary9.pdf
Since "Whites" includes Jews, Italians, etc., Anglos comprise an even
smaller percentage. Your notion of an "entire state of Anglos" is entirely
false, & patently racist.
>David Crosby is not the best subject in the world to quote for much of
anything.
His accent & manner of speech are shared by many Southern Californians.
>TV started big in NY...why no NY accents? Why wasn't NY used as the
broadcasting template? Movies are West Coast...and were started and run by
immigrants.
You're skipping across many mediums & eras. Compare, for example, FDR to
Will Rogers, or Orson Welles to Clark Gable: whose accents were closer to
"proper English" in the 30s & 40s? In the last 40 years or so, the
California accent has become more widely adopted. But white Californians
certainly have an accent.
American cinema began on the East Coast.
>So where does this 'West Coast' accent come from...the Indians?
It comes from various places. Open your eyes & ears.
Runnnerr
job where qualified "minorities" would normally be? Will civil service tests
now be race normed for the white minority? Will hate crimes now only apply when
a "minority" Is the perp against a white person?
Larry G
>
> In America there is as I said a LACK of a regional accent in California
> (and quite possibly Oregon and Washington as well, maybe even more
> western states, I haven't been to them all). This is a fact. Whether
> that lack is in itself an accent is not something I would argue about as
> it is so trivially related to the actual point.
No, it isn't. I'm not trying to play games with you, or fight with you.
Any linguist will tell you that everyone speaks with an accent or dialect.
There is no "neutral" dialect. There *is* a majority dialect. I never
disagreed with you that for the most part that people on the West Coast
speak generally the Standard American dialect. If you wish to call this
"accentless", that is your perogative.
In Oregon and Washington, there is an Upper Midwest influence, like the
dialect my paternal grandmother (from Nebraska) speaks. They are more like
to pronounce "wash" as "worsh" for example. This is not a feature of
Southern California speech where the word is mainly pronounced as "wash".
Closer to the Canadian border, I am told by natives that they are more
likely to use Britishisms/Canadianisms sometimes.
> Firstly I was not the one to make that claim, that was the other guy. I
> tend to refute it for the most part (certainly there will be overlaps
> and shades of grey anywhere).
Then we agree for the most part.
> Secondly, all you (as with robert) are relating is very limited personal
> anecdotes.
Aren't we all.
> No they haven't. Why, when Linda McCartney went to England, didn't
> everyone she came in constant contact with talk like a NY? It's a human
> feature of language and when *immersed* in an environment where one is
> bombarded with an alien accent, said subject is more times than not
> going to absorb and recreate the accent of those around them.
True. I'm not going to argue with you about this. I probably suffer from
"Linda McCartney" syndrome myself, lol. My mother's side of the family is
from the South, whenever I am around them, my accent picks up features of
Texan or Alabaman speech. This is not done, as I'm sure is the case of
Linda McCartney, on a conscious level, it just happens when one is immersed,
even temporarily for some people, in a certain environment. Even in e-mail,
I conserve quite a bit with friends from Britain and the Commonwealth, and
I've come to realize I've picked up a few Britishisms here and there just
from writing to people. As you said, when you are immersed in an
environment, you tend to pick up features of speech from those around you.
> Someone
> moving from Chicago to California today is not going to influence a
> soul, but BE influenced by those around them (depending on the amount of
> time that person is here).
Not one, person, but a community of people *will*. My accent is the
"accentless" Standard American California accent for the most part, but in
my teens, I was around quite a few people who had migrated from the Chicago
area and from Upstate New York. My a's flattened out immensely, and my
accent, which had been more influenced by my Southern relatives, took on a
more Midwestern intonation.
My aunt, who lives in Orange County, speaks with a Midwestern accent,
because she is around many migrants from that region, and it has a prestige
in her local area, and it was the speech of her husband. She speaks
noticeably different from the rest of the family (who speak Standard
American, with a touch of Southern). Ironically, she is the only member of
our branch of the family actually born in the South. You'd never know it to
hear her speak. You'd probably assume she had been born in Illinois, even
though she only lived in Ohio a few years.
My cousins children (Anglos) had a mixed Anglo-Mexican accent when they were
pre-school age because they lived in a Mexican neighborhood. The blended
speech they had was really pretty, kinda sounded like an Irish brogue to my
ears. It disappeared when they moved to an Anglo neighborhood.
> Not really. East LA has a strong Mexican flavor because there is a
> large population of Hispanics there. You won't find any enclave of Okie
> beyond a family in the whole state.
I wouldn't say Okie is an established dialect anywhere. But, travel further
east out to the inland areas and the desert, and you will be far more likely
to find people that either speak Okie, Midwestern (using "they was" instead
of "they were" for example), or Southern. Closer to L.A. and Orange County,
you are far more likely to hear the coastal Standard American, almost
Canadian-style speech. Overall, it is Standard American, yes. But, there
*are* noticeable differences, again depending on where you are.
> >
> > If your in Riverside, you're more likely to hear a Southern inflection
> in
> > speech than in Costa Mesa, for example.
>
> Gawd. Right.
I was born here, I've been to about 45 counties of the state, heard
different types of accents all over it. I think I have an experience of my
own state as good as you to be able to have an educated opinion on it. We
don't disagree as much as you think we do. You can call it semantics,
whatever. I just find the subject interesting.
Larry
Larry G
> I conserve quite a bit with friends from Britain and the Commonwealth, and
*CONVERSE
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
> >Another incredible statement. The whites are NOT outnumbered by
> minorities.
>
> "The 2000 Census was the first U.S. decennial survey in which the
majority
> of California's population (53.3 percent) identified as non-White."
> http://ccsre.stanford.edu/reports/exec_summary9.pdf
>
> Since "Whites" includes Jews, Italians, etc., Anglos comprise an even
> smaller percentage. Your notion of an "entire state of Anglos" is
entirely
> false, & patently racist.
LOL. Racist indeed. No, you are correct, I do recall now the 52%
figure being bandied about a year or so ago. As I typed that part of my
reply I was a bit shaky because something was stirring in my head. I
concede the fact. And it has nothing to do with racism, but nice try
robbie.
Of course, for you to declare that no blacks, Chinese, Hispanics, etc.
speak in anything other than their own particulr brand of ethnic tongue
is also quite a racist statement, right? :)
>
> >David Crosby is not the best subject in the world to quote for much
of
> anything.
>
> His accent & manner of speech are shared by many Southern
Californians.
Which is entirely meaningless. How DO you come up with this stuff?
>
> >TV started big in NY...why no NY accents? Why wasn't NY used as the
> broadcasting template? Movies are West Coast...and were started and
run by
> immigrants.
>
> You're skipping across many mediums & eras. Compare, for example, FDR
to
> Will Rogers, or Orson Welles to Clark Gable: whose accents were closer
to
> "proper English" in the 30s & 40s? In the last 40 years or so, the
> California accent has become more widely adopted. But white
Californians
> certainly have an accent.
Yes. It's called 'lack of a US regional' accent. Your contention about
30's Okie's making a splash on the Anglo linguistics here was a joke,
and also spanned quite a few eras.
>
> American cinema began on the East Coast.
But was disseminated largely on the West. And that was a
mini-concession to you, but since you make my point for me (if movies
were so important why doesn't everyone speak NY-ese?) I appreciate it.
>
> >So where does this 'West Coast' accent come from...the Indians?
>
> It comes from various places. Open your eyes & ears.
Pfft. As you continue to make things up according to andrews-ese I'l
stick to reality, thanks.
>
>
>
Mister Charlie
> "Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote in message ...
> > The semantic game you employ to decribe accent is worthless
wordplay.
> >
> > In America there is as I said a LACK of a regional accent in
California
> > (and quite possibly Oregon and Washington as well, maybe even more
> > western states, I haven't been to them all). This is a fact.
Whether
> > that lack is in itself an accent is not something I would argue
about as
> > it is so trivially related to the actual point.
>
> No, it isn't. I'm not trying to play games with you, or fight with
you.
> Any linguist will tell you that everyone speaks with an accent or
dialect.
> There is no "neutral" dialect. There *is* a majority dialect. I
never
> disagreed with you that for the most part that people on the West
Coast
> speak generally the Standard American dialect. If you wish to call
this
> "accentless", that is your perogative.
I said it is a lack of an identifiable regional accent. I do not
dispute that to anyone from outside the country they would call what you
call 'Standard' a West Coast / California accent.
>
> In Oregon and Washington, there is an Upper Midwest influence, like
the
> dialect my paternal grandmother (from Nebraska) speaks. They are more
like
> to pronounce "wash" as "worsh" for example. This is not a feature of
> Southern California speech where the word is mainly pronounced as
"wash".
> Closer to the Canadian border, I am told by natives that they are more
> likely to use Britishisms/Canadianisms sometimes.
OK. I canot speak to this as I have only been in Washington briefly ( a
week) and never in Oregon.
>
> > Firstly I was not the one to make that claim, that was the other
guy. I
> > tend to refute it for the most part (certainly there will be
overlaps
> > and shades of grey anywhere).
>
> Then we agree for the most part.
Somewhat, yes. I realize that every human on earth speaks with some
sort of an accent. MY simple statement that it was a LACK of regional
US accent (or standard broadcast accent) was immediately leapt upon with
some whose ability to spin fiction was far more in tune with facts. And
it took this thread far afield just so some could trot out some self
created knowledge to preen with. (This does not necessarily mean you.)
MY point was simply and correct. Yes, we can dissect this until it is
hair-width, but what's the point? Semantically, you are correct. But I
am as well in stating that it is simple wordplay given what I was
originally talking about.
>
> > Secondly, all you (as with robert) are relating is very limited
personal
> > anecdotes.
>
> Aren't we all.
Yes, I confess I do as well.
For the most part. I am sure there are people who do indeed resist the
unconscious change.
>
> > Someone
> > moving from Chicago to California today is not going to influence a
> > soul, but BE influenced by those around them (depending on the
amount of
> > time that person is here).
>
> Not one, person, but a community of people *will*. My accent is the
> "accentless" Standard American California accent for the most part,
but in
> my teens, I was around quite a few people who had migrated from the
Chicago
> area and from Upstate New York. My a's flattened out immensely, and
my
> accent, which had been more influenced by my Southern relatives, took
on a
> more Midwestern intonation.
Again, and perhaps this is the core of the problem, my original
statement over-generalized the entire state of California. There are
pockets or communities (Solvang for instance, which has stron Swede
influence) where that immersion thing can still work on a non-accented
person...I never expected o have to identify it down to this level. But
as with the East LA example, yes, there are communities that do not
speak this generic accent.
True. This would be true anywhere on earth. An American embassy
compound in Iraq. I mean, how far do we extend this silly concept?
Yes, I agree I overstated something in a moment of ripping something off
to post. But basically what I said stands as true, regardless of how
many slices are taken from it.
> > >
> > > If your in Riverside, you're more likely to hear a Southern
inflection
> > in
> > > speech than in Costa Mesa, for example.
> >
> > Gawd. Right.
>
> I was born here, I've been to about 45 counties of the state, heard
> different types of accents all over it. I think I have an experience
of my
> own state as good as you to be able to have an educated opinion on it.
We
> don't disagree as much as you think we do. You can call it semantics,
> whatever. I just find the subject interesting.
LOL. I don't. Not anymore! :) No, you are right, to a degree. I was
correct, to a degree as well, but I erred in over-generalizing.
Mister Charlie
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "Runnnerr" <runn...@aol.com> wrote in message ...
> > Does this mean that non-qualified whites can now be accepted into
schools
> and
> > job where qualified "minorities" would normally be? Will civil
service
> tests
> > now be race normed for the white minority? Will hate crimes now only
apply
> when
> > a "minority" Is the perp against a white person?
>
because
> the whites form a plurality. They are still the largest single ethnic
group
> in the state. They are outnumbered collectively by non-whites,
however.
>
> I do think some of these laws need to be reformed though. What is the
> difference between an Anglo-Indian person and a Hispanic person, for
> example? My family has suffered some discrimination because of dark,
or
> olive, skin. But, we are "white" because we do not have enough Indian
> blood. I have light complected skin because the Indian influence has
> diminished over the years. I'm certainly not alone: people as
diverse as
> Frank Gifford and Quentin Tarantino are also Anglo-Indian. And, it is
also
> not political correct for them to be proud of their Indian heritage
because
> they are "white". It is odd. There is racial discrimination even in
the
> "white" community.
>
> I know I'm gonna get flamed. I should know better than to get
involved in a
> racial thread, but just making a point.
>
Up to this point (until a few posts back) it wasn't about race at all.
And I think (not sure) that I introduced the word Anglo which was not
right, because there are many, many, many people of all color and stripe
in this state who do speak the same 'standard' (for lack of a better
word) California accent.
Larry G
> correct, to a degree as well, but I erred in over-generalizing.
Hehe, it's okay. It's silly to debate anymore, when we probably agree more
than not.
Larry
Runnnerr
and not pay any taxes on it.
By the way, there's racial discrimination across all groups toward all groups,
including one's own?
Could you define what a "Hispanic" is? Is that someone who comes from a country
called Hispania? Isn't it funny that people who come from Spain are not
considered "Hispanics"? Explain that one to me, please.
>Subject: Re: Why did Linda McCartney speak with a British accent?
>From: "Larry G" thela...@yahoo.com
>Date: 3/2/03 11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <b3ta89$1q303b$1...@ID-37509.news.dfncis.de>
>
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>"Runnnerr" <runn...@aol.com> wrote in message ...
>> Does this mean that non-qualified whites can now be accepted into schools
>and
>> job where qualified "minorities" would normally be? Will civil service
>tests
>> now be race normed for the white minority? Will hate crimes now only apply
>when
>> a "minority" Is the perp against a white person?
>
>I'm assuming you're being rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway. No, because
>the whites form a plurality. They are still the largest single ethnic group
>in the state. They are outnumbered collectively by non-whites, however.
>
>I do think some of these laws need to be reformed though. What is the
>difference between an Anglo-Indian person and a Hispanic person, for
>example? My family has suffered some discrimination because of dark, or
>olive, skin. But, we are "white" because we do not have enough Indian
>blood. I have light complected skin because the Indian influence has
>diminished over the years. I'm certainly not alone: people as diverse as
>Frank Gifford and Quentin Tarantino are also Anglo-Indian. And, it is also
>not political correct for them to be proud of their Indian heritage because
>they are "white". It is odd. There is racial discrimination even in the
>"white" community.
>
>I know I'm gonna get flamed. I should know better than to get involved in a
>racial thread, but just making a point.
>
>Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Larry G
Sorry, my mistake. A post regarding race, I should have said.
>
> And I think (not sure) that I introduced the word Anglo which was not
> right, because there are many, many, many people of all color and stripe
> in this state who do speak the same 'standard' (for lack of a better
> word) California accent.
Agreed.
Larry
Chris Brown
> > discernible accent. Barring ethnic birth origins (Chinese, Mexican,
> > etc.).
>
will
> tell you that the RP, posh accent has "no accent" and is "neutral".
Actually, RP (which stands for Received Pronunciation, if anyone's confused)
isn't exactly the same as posh - it would tend to be considered "posher"
than many other British accents, but the posh accents that we do when we're
pretending to be Lord ffotherington-Smythe is different again, most notably
by its more French-sounding vowels ("Well helleau...").
RP is closer to the accent adopted in the past by broadcasters, and the sort
of accent that people would gravitate towards when the deliberately shed
their regional accents; I assume it's also the accent that's taught to
people who learn English as a foreign language, if they're taught a British
accent at all.
> Everybody has an accent of some kind.
Indeed. I suppose you could make some sort of argument that standard British
English is more "correct" than standard American English because the
language originated here: but that's pretty pointless IMO.
As I come from the South-East of England and am moderately educated, I speak
with something approximating the RP accent; the main difference is that I
pronounce words like "grass" and "plaster" with a short "a" sound - I freely
admit that I affected this as a child, although I did have some
justification as both my parents came from Northern Britain. Even so, I'm a
bit of a chameleon and I sometimes catch my accent sliding slightly up or
down the "posh" scale according to context; this ability also served me well
when I began learning foreign languages.
To return to the vicinity of the original point, I can claim a certain
personal experience of the phenomenon, because my wife is an American who
has now lived here for three years. Her family back home all think she's
picked up a British accent*, but to me she still sounds American, except for
certain words that she's intentionally changed in order to make herself
understood and British colloquialisms that don't exist in an American
accent. Other people around here who aren't forewarned of her nationality
tend to pick up that she has some sort of accent, but often fail to grasp
what it is: mind you, this could be because she doesn't have one of the
American accents that's immediately familiar to most Britons.
My uncle is another interesting case: my mother's parents were both
Glaswegians and moved to England before he was born. By the time he arrived,
they were in Kent (on the south-eastern tip of Britain) but when he first
learned to talk, he picked up a pure Glasgow accent from his family; people,
I'm told, stopped my grandmother in the street just to hear him. But as soon
as he started school, he quickly reverted to the local accent and he still
sounds that way now.**
Chris
*Of course, to most British people there isn't really such a thing as a
"British accent": to our ears, English, Scottish and Welsh accents are as
distinct as Australian and American ones. Mind you, very few British people
can distinguish, say, Australian and New Zealand accents, so it's really a
matter of perspective.
**If anyone's desperate to hear who his speaking voice ended up, try finding
a record called "Tangerine" by the Dentists. He's talking all over that.
maclen
"Runnnerr" wrote
>
> Could you define what a "Hispanic" is? Is that someone who comes from a
country
> called Hispania? Isn't it funny that people who come from Spain are not
> considered "Hispanics"? Explain that one to me, please.
>
A "Hispano" or "Hispana" (Hispanic), is someone who comes from
"Hispano-America" (Hispanic America), which is a name given to those
countries that were influenced by the original "Hispania" (Spain - Hispania
being Latin for the "Castillian" España).
When "America" is mentioned, we're talking about the continent of course,
not the United States... Explain that one to me, please... Since when the
country of the United States of America, became known as "America"? The
funny thing is that NO-ONE, at least in Hispanic America, refers to natives
of the United States as "Americanos" (or Americans). They're either
"Estado-Unidenses" (United States-ians, to illustrate since there's no
English counterpart tot he word), or "Norte-Americanos" (North American).
Everyone in the continent is "American".
maclen
R.A.G. Seely
Now that the discussion has regained some sense, I'd like to add a point
that ought to have been made at the beginning, but would have been lost in
the noise. (First, I trust we now all agree that there is no such thing as
"having no accent", or "having a neutral accent", since such things are
entirely relative.)
The point I wanted to make was this: perceived accents are - for most
people - entirely misleading things. People tend to pick up the tiniest
differences and perceive them as complete accent changes. I think this is
what most folks are hearing with people like Linda McCartney - their accent
has taken on some "foreign characteristics" and those are what are being
heard.
Some examples with which I am very familiar: my wife (who is an Australian)
has lived for 5 years in England and then for the past 25 years in Canada -
more specifically, in Montreal. She is thought here to have an Australian
or English accent (sometimes even accused of having a South African accent
- people are often really bad at recognising accents!), but sometimes when
she goes home, she has been mistaken for having an American accent (a
double insult!). She does not have an American (nor even a Canadian)
accent (Ian has met her, and might be able to confirm that(?)), but no
doubt has picked up an occasional vowel inflection, a trick of vocabulary,
or some other subtle things that are what the listener is hearing, ignoring
all the more familiar markers of an accent. We have never known a native
Canadian or American think her accent had any traces of "American", nor a
native Britisher think her accent had any traces of English - anyone who
hears those things is always "foreign" to the accent they think they hear.
Me? I have been accused of having an English accent by some Canadians (not
many, admittedly), to the great amusement of my English friends who think I
have an American accent. (I have neither!) (Again, Ian is the only one
here who could "confirm" that, if he even took notice.) I suspect that's
because of a slight precision of speech learned from English teachers when
I was a child, of spending 5 years in England as a grad student, and
because of living with an Australian whose vowels and habits of speech keep
me aware of some "foreign" tendancies I might otherwise forget. But it's
all very subtle, and doesn't affect 99.9% of my speech patterns.
The point I am making is that folks hear that remaining 0.1% more loudly
than the majority 99.9%. This is pretty common and explains why no
Englishman will hear Linda's accent as English, but some Americans will.
And in the end, this is why such discussions end up being very sterile -
they start from a false premise, are continued with false perceptions, and
end in false conclusions. In the end, Linda speaks as she does, with many
influences and many tricks of vocabulary, which is perceived by many in
different ways. Eg, I never thought much about it, but don't recall ever
being struck by any particular accent she had. If you said she spoke "mid-
Atlantic" I'd probably agree that coincided with my perception. BTW "mid-
Atlantic" is what I'd call "neutral" - I hear a strong Californian accent
from most folks I know who come from there. Calling it "neutral" seems
weird to me. But that's just me! In fact, I tend to be pretty unconscious
of accents, and frequently forget what words are used in what countries,
moving between variants unconsciously. (Eg, I can recall which to use if
the choice is "truck" or "lorry", but I frequently mix up "bill" or
"note".)
-= rags =-
--
To reply by email, use "@" not "__A@T__"
<rags AT math . mcgill . ca>
<http://www.math.mcgill.ca/rags>
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
robertandrews
>Of course, for you to declare that no blacks, Chinese, Hispanics, etc.
speak in anything other than their own particulr brand of ethnic tongue is
also quite a racist statement, right? :)
I said just the opposite -- that our accents come out of cross-influences.
Language is always changing.
>Yes. It's called 'lack of a US regional' accent.
That's the California accent. I guess you don't consider California a
region. Fact is, people in Illinois, Louisiana & Massachusetts don't speak
like David Crosby.
>And that was a mini-concession to you, but since you make my point for me
(if movies were so important why doesn't everyone speak NY-ese?)
Movies are one important aspect, but most early actors didn't speak
"NY-ese." Had Lillian Gish audibly spoken on film, she would have used the
"proper English" of the stage, also employed by John Barrymore, Bette Davis,
Kate Hepburn, Orson Welles, etc. John Wayne didn't have an accent? Back
then he certainly did. But today, Wayne's accent is considered more
standard.
Jake
an
accent that people seem to notice.> >
Dude, yur like totally wrong, ok. Every teenager in America now talks
Californian (or hip-hop). ;-)
David Elliott
Trinidad accent was lost and she sounds American...
"Chris Brown" <extreme_...@yaspamhoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3tjmd$qgk$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Mister Charlie
"Jake" <jpo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:df13a8c8.03030...@posting.google.com...
Valley speak is very old hat.
Larry G
> Also, my ex-wife is Trinidadian, moved here in 1990. Over the years, her
> Trinidad accent was lost and she sounds American...
My stepmom is from the Philippines. Could hardly speak a word of English
about five years ago. Now, she sounds Californian.
Larry
Mister Charlie
;-)
Larry G
> English
> > about five years ago. Now, she sounds Californian.
> >
> Whatever that is.
>
> ;-)
LOL! Well, in her case like someone from Orange County. The only reason
I'm not to quick to characterize a single Californian accent is because that
if you pick an average Anglo person from say Newport Beach, their speech is
gonna sound a lot closer to Standard American, coastal, almost
Canadian-style speech than if you pick someone from Needles or Blythe, who
will sound closer to Okie or Southern.
Larry
Larry G
> Actually, RP (which stands for Received Pronunciation, if anyone's
confused)
> isn't exactly the same as posh - it would tend to be considered "posher"
> than many other British accents, but the posh accents that we do when
we're
> pretending to be Lord ffotherington-Smythe is different again, most
notably
> by its more French-sounding vowels ("Well helleau...").
> RP is closer to the accent adopted in the past by broadcasters, and the
sort
> of accent that people would gravitate towards when the deliberately shed
> their regional accents; I assume it's also the accent that's taught to
> people who learn English as a foreign language, if they're taught a
British
> accent at all.
That is interesting. Would the early BBC accent be concerned posh today?
If you listen to old newsreels from the WWII era and the coronation of Queen
Elizabeth II, the way words are pronounced is quite striking: "Buckinghm
Pelece" for example or where "house" almost rhymes with "ice". I notice
that the modern RP accent is a bit (more American to my ears). For example,
family was almost pronounced "fem-i-ly" in these early newsreels, but
"fam-i-ly" today.
It is also interesting to hear very old newsreels from the 19th and early
20th century of Americans. The public speaking voice, and I am told
actually the old East Coast accent, was very much closer to RP than today.
I think they called it "stage English". I think what we now call "Standard
American" dialects superseded it as the norm sometime around WWII for the
stage.
>
> > Everybody has an accent of some kind.
>
> Indeed. I suppose you could make some sort of argument that standard
British
> English is more "correct" than standard American English because the
> language originated here: but that's pretty pointless IMO.
> As I come from the South-East of England and am moderately educated, I
speak
> with something approximating the RP accent; the main difference is that I
> pronounce words like "grass" and "plaster" with a short "a" sound - I
freely
> admit that I affected this as a child, although I did have some
> justification as both my parents came from Northern Britain. Even so, I'm
a
> bit of a chameleon and I sometimes catch my accent sliding slightly up or
> down the "posh" scale according to context; this ability also served me
well
> when I began learning foreign languages.
That's interesting. I'm a bit of a chameleon myself, as I suspect Linda
McCartney was. Half of my family is from the Southern USA and half from the
Midwest. Between these influences, and those of New England and Canadian
visitors, my accent will change depending on my environment. I've always
spelled words like "travelling" with two LLs, even though the American norm
is to use one, and I've always wondered why. I've read that this was
standard in the South to use British spellings, but I wonder about the
validity of that statement. I'm not sure where I get that from. It's the
only time I use a British spelling as a norm. (I'm American).
>
> To return to the vicinity of the original point, I can claim a certain
> personal experience of the phenomenon, because my wife is an American who
> has now lived here for three years. Her family back home all think she's
> picked up a British accent*, but to me she still sounds American, except
for
> certain words that she's intentionally changed in order to make herself
> understood and British colloquialisms that don't exist in an American
> accent. Other people around here who aren't forewarned of her nationality
> tend to pick up that she has some sort of accent, but often fail to grasp
> what it is: mind you, this could be because she doesn't have one of the
> American accents that's immediately familiar to most Britons.
That's interesting. I can tell you a few interesting stories from other
expats. I know of one woman from Arkansas who lived in England. While
working as a nurse, one man told her she had the most beautiful Cornwall acc
ent. (???) She just nodded, hehe.
Many Americans are assumed to be from Ireland, which I think is interesting.
Has your wife been assumed to be Irish? I've always thought the American,
and especially Canadian, accents were similar to that of Ireland. The
Canadian accents more so than American ones. Perhaps, that is the origin of
the American accent, either from Ireland, or places in England with that
kind of an accent. I just think it is interesting.
I'm not sure if you're wife knows about this website, she may already post
there ;-), (I'm not an expat myself) but there is a website for American
expats in England that you and your wife are welcome to post at, if you
want:
http://www.americanexpats.co.uk
http://www.americanexpats.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl (the forums)
People share stories and arrange get togethers. Just thought I'd let ya
know in case you're interested. :)
> My uncle is another interesting case: my mother's parents were both
> Glaswegians and moved to England before he was born. By the time he
arrived,
> they were in Kent (on the south-eastern tip of Britain) but when he first
> learned to talk, he picked up a pure Glasgow accent from his family;
people,
> I'm told, stopped my grandmother in the street just to hear him. But as
soon
> as he started school, he quickly reverted to the local accent and he still
> sounds that way now.**
That is interesting. I pretty much sounded Southern when I was little
because that was the accent I heard. But, when I started school, I
gradually lost that accent. Kind of ashame. I have retained a few
regionalisms from different parts of the country (USA) over the years from
various neighbors I grew up with though. It is interesting.
Larry
Frederick W. Harrison
> I came back from nine months in America with an American accent.
>
> Well, that's what my friends and family said. I doubt any American
> would have thought that.
I've been told that I have a British accent despite being born and raised in
Canada (and a fourth generation Canuck to boot, eh?). I think I acquired it
shortly after Feb. 9, 1964. :-)
The British accent (dialects ranging from received pronunciation to scouse,
but not cockney or Yorkshire) and the Scot's brogue have always had an
attraction for me, so I suppose I just started to emulate the former.
Reading UK children's books and annuals as a child may have helped. I have
never been able to emulate the Scot's brogue, despite having a step
grandfather who had one.
I put temporary accents down to what I call the "Zelig effect" after the
Woody Allen movie of the same name. The desire to fit in affects one's
habits of speech and behaviour - but thankfully not one's morphology.
--
Frederick Harrison <><
````````````````````````````````````````````````
"A stone may change the course of the river."
C.S Lewis
Pat D
> > generalizing, as obviously there are the Mexicans, the Chinese, the
> > African-Americans, etc. etc.
> >
> > Most Californians that are not from another country speak a non-accented
> > sort of way, as a rule.
>
> The Midwestern (Chicago) and Southern accents have had their effect though,
> at least in inland areas.
>
> Larry
Although the accent is being slowly faded out, native Chicagoans were
notorious for saying things like: "da Sout' Side," "da Nort' Side,"
"I'm goin' to da bat troom," along with pronouncing every word with a
short "a" sound with a very hard sound, almost like a sheep's
"baaa..." Also, when describing what someone said to another, one
usually says, "And then he goes ..." instead of 'and then he says...'
Pat (from the Sout' Side)
BunnyFoof
years. It took me close to a year to understand the broad Yorkshire
accent. Meanwhile, I worked and led a fairly ordinary life there. It
got tiresome to constantly have my American accent remarked upon (or
made fun of). I didn't consciously try to adopt an English accent, but
I did try to tone down my American sound. I think a lot came from the
different inflection used by the English. Anyway, after 6 years, and
without any other Americans around to practice my American accent,
people stopped assuming I was American. They would ask if I was
Australian (!), but they just knew I wasn't local.
The two English sounds I never could master were the "yew" sound
(e.g., news)...I said "nooze." And when I said "butter" (budder), my
workmates thought it was hilarious.
When I returned to the U.S., everyone thought I had an English accent.
But it only took a couple of weeks to lose it completely.
Chris Brown
> "Chris Brown" <extreme_...@yaspamhoo.com> wrote in message ...
> > Actually, RP (which stands for Received Pronunciation, if anyone's
> confused)
> > isn't exactly the same as posh - it would tend to be considered "posher"
>
> That is interesting. Would the early BBC accent be concerned posh today?
In a word, yes. I think it was considered posh at the time too, but back
then the notion of speaking "correctly" was much more widely believed in,
and much more standardised. Hence The King's [or Queen's] English, a phrase
you barely hear today.
> If you listen to old newsreels from the WWII era and the coronation of
Queen
> Elizabeth II, the way words are pronounced is quite striking: "Buckinghm
> Pelece" for example or where "house" almost rhymes with "ice". I notice
That's very characteristic of the stereotype posh accent that you now only
hear when people are doing impersonations of the Queen. Even real posh
people, though still identifiable, are not always quite so extreme.
> that the modern RP accent is a bit (more American to my ears). For
example,
> family was almost pronounced "fem-i-ly" in these early newsreels, but
> "fam-i-ly" today.
Whether it's actually more American is arguable, I suppose, but there's no
doubt that it's shifted and that British English has been increasingly
influenced by non-British forms of English for practical and technological
reasons as well as social ones.
> It is also interesting to hear very old newsreels from the 19th and early
> 20th century of Americans. The public speaking voice, and I am told
> actually the old East Coast accent, was very much closer to RP than today.
That's true. Of course I've heard less of that than I suspect you have.
> I think they called it "stage English". I think what we now call
"Standard
> American" dialects superseded it as the norm sometime around WWII for the
> stage.
Yeah. I think you could argue that in Britain, WWII was a watershed for a
lot of the social changes later in the twentienth century which went on to
affect the accent.
I'm
> a
> > bit of a chameleon and I sometimes catch my accent sliding slightly up
or
> > down the "posh" scale according to context; this ability also served me
> well
> > when I began learning foreign languages.
>
> That's interesting. I'm a bit of a chameleon myself, as I suspect Linda
> McCartney was. Half of my family is from the Southern USA and half from
the
> Midwest. Between these influences, and those of New England and Canadian
> visitors, my accent will change depending on my environment. I've always
> spelled words like "travelling" with two LLs, even though the American
norm
> is to use one, and I've always wondered why. I've read that this was
> standard in the South to use British spellings, but I wonder about the
> validity of that statement. I'm not sure where I get that from. It's the
> only time I use a British spelling as a norm. (I'm American).
That is unusual. It's not something I've really heard of.
I don't know how far it's the case in America, but in Britain, it would
still mostly be considered "wrong" to use American spelling, at least in
cases where it seems simpler. A child who wrote "color" or "traveler" in
school work would surely be marked down for it: on the other hand, the
American use of "z" where British would have an "s" is gradually becoming
more accepted. There's also the slightly broader pattern where new ideas and
technology are expressed in the language they seem to come from; that's why
we Brits have a television programme but a computer program, much as we use
Italian musical terms because they seemed to dominate music when these
things entered our vocabulary.
Curiously, perhaps because of the way we're educated, the British attitude
to Americanism is easier on grammar; for instance, you hear more and more
people saying "different than".
> > To return to the vicinity of the original point, I can claim a certain
> > personal experience of the phenomenon, because my wife is an American
who
> > has now lived here for three years. Her family back home all think she's
> > picked up a British accent*, but to me she still sounds American, except
> for
> > certain words that she's intentionally changed in order to make herself
> > understood and British colloquialisms that don't exist in an American
> > accent. Other people around here who aren't forewarned of her
nationality
> > tend to pick up that she has some sort of accent, but often fail to
grasp
> > what it is: mind you, this could be because she doesn't have one of the
> > American accents that's immediately familiar to most Britons.
>
> That's interesting. I can tell you a few interesting stories from other
> expats. I know of one woman from Arkansas who lived in England. While
> working as a nurse, one man told her she had the most beautiful Cornwall
>accent. (???) She just nodded, hehe.
Well, offhand the only person from Arkansas I can think of is Bill Clinton.
He's been called a lot of things, but never Cornish ;-).
> Many Americans are assumed to be from Ireland, which I think is
interesting.
> Has your wife been assumed to be Irish? I've always thought the American,
Yes she has, indeed that seems to be the most common guess. Even in Catholic
churches in North London, where you'd expect people to be pretty familiar
with real Irish accents.
> and especially Canadian, accents were similar to that of Ireland. The
> Canadian accents more so than American ones. Perhaps, that is the origin
of
> the American accent, either from Ireland, or places in England with that
> kind of an accent. I just think it is interesting.
There obviously was a lot of Irish emigration to North America during the
famine. But I guess part of the point is that people from different parts of
Europe fetched up together in the New World and established mixed accents on
that basis. I'm told the effect is more obvious in Australasia, presumably
because the migration was more recent.
> I'm not sure if you're wife knows about this website, she may already post
>
> People share stories and arrange get togethers. Just thought I'd let ya
> know in case you're interested. :)
She read it over my shoulder. Thanks.
> That is interesting. I pretty much sounded Southern when I was little
> because that was the accent I heard. But, when I started school, I
> gradually lost that accent. Kind of ashame. I have retained a few
That seems to be a standard turing point, because it's the point when the
majority of voices you hear will be the local ones.
> regionalisms from different parts of the country (USA) over the years from
> various neighbors I grew up with though. It is interesting.
I suppose my dad's a bit of an interesting case too, because he was born in
South London (to a London mother and a northern father) and then moved up
North at the age of five; but he still spent a lot of time with his London
family and he's lived in the North of London for almost thirty years now.
The trouble is that because he is my dad, I know his voice too well to
analyse it.
And we haven't even touched on the question of people who intentionally
alter their accents. Or indeed on the role of the Beatles in changing
British speech. Maybe that's for another day.
Chris
--
"It's always difficult meeting your heroes. Especially when they punch you
in the face."
e x t r e m e _ r i c e @ y a h o o s p a m . c o m
(note obvious spamblock)
The Gene Pool - now without pop-ups:
http://faynights.users.btopenworld.com/Chris/index.htm
Serge
(but not all) of Paul's from living with him. I remember she sounded like that
in the late '70s. So I don't think she was affected.
FishNchips4ever
> By the time Oobu Joobu came out, she had toned it down considerably
> probably so as to not alienate US listeners, but before that, what
> I've heard of interviews and such, she spoke with this fake British
> accent that was pretty annoying.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she live in the States
> until she was about 30 years old? How could she have acquired a
> British accent 1) at that age, and 2) in such a short amount of time?
>
> I look at Americans like Terry Gilliam, for example, who moved to
> England at an earlier age and lived there for a long time, and never
> got a British accent. I don't know how long they lived there, but the
> Copeland brothers Miles and Stewart) didn't come out speaking with a
> British accent either.
>
> Richard Lester totally speaks with a British accent though, but hasn't
> he lived there forever since he was very young?
>
> I know... trivial stuff, but that always rubbed me the wrong way. I
> know she was Paul's wife and he loved her and all, but I'm glad she's
> not onstage messing up her two synthesizer parts and ruining the songs
> (Jet and Band On The Run), and adding unnecessary backing vocals.
In my opinion, Linda McCartney's accent was affected and not very well done. It's ridiculous she would've acquired an accent in such a short time when Chrissie Hynde had lived in London for ages and she still ounds like a Yank. McCartney wasn't even consistent about it -- a couple of times she didn't fake an accent, sometimes she sounded like a Northerner, sometimes she sounded like Devon.
Norbert K
zippl...@gmail.com
Almost posted it but there was about 7 seconds of it, and the video was about 30 seconds long. Not
worth looking at. You never know what you’ll find on Youtube.
fil...@gmail.com
> >there is actually nothing funnier than >someone attempting an "aussie
> accent", >especially yanks and brits.
>
> Oh, I dunno, there're some appaulingly bad American accents in old
> "Doctor Who" episodes. "OK, you guys..." is how they start most of their
> sentences. And what about the "Waldorf Salad" guy from Fawlty Towers?
AFAIK he was Canadian actually.
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Jan