My Take on Lennon's Final Days
Mister Charlie
horror of cremation, a practice that he argued against and once
considered protesting against in a song. Despite his aversion, the
Widow Lennon arranged to have his body burned. And from the Channel
4 documentary "The Real John Lennon," it is clear that none of his
family in England were consulted about this cavalier disposal of his
corpse.
John's 5 year old son Sean wasn't told the awful news until the
morning of 10 December, two days after the murder happened.
Understandably distraught, little Sean asked to see his father one
last time, so Lennon's assistant Fred Seaman rang security man Douglas
MacDougal at Ferncliff Mortuary and asked him to hold off on the
cremation so that Sean could see his dad for the last time. It was
too late. The body had already been burned.
But it gets worse.
According to Seaman's account in his excellent book "The Last Days of
John Lennon", MacDougal told him that John's face had been serene and
calm until just before the body entered the gas oven, when suddenly it
contorted into a "pained, macabre grin" (a la Mr. Sardonicus)
apparently due to advanced rigor mortis.
MacDougal had also warned Yoko a couple of months before the murder
that the Lennons were running crazy risks by making their daily
routine public and not having proper bodyguards. She told him she had
no intention of arranging for John to have bodyguards.
I believe there was something profoundly sinister about John's
reclusive final years with the astrology obsessed Yoko Ono and her
mind control techniques.
George Harrison once said of visits to the Dakota, "I always felt
there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
He doesn't look like a well man to me.
LongTallSally11
>From: Mister Charlie smokerdu...@myway.com
>Date: 10/23/2004 9:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <cdnkn098mqj8gpkhe...@4ax.com>
<snipped morbid stuff>
>George Harrison once said of visits to the Dakota, "I always felt
>there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
>say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
>his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
>before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
>
>He doesn't look like a well man to me.
I think he lost too much weight and it made him look older in his
face. I expect he wanted to be thin for PR purposes, but he
got carried away. The pictures you showed were taken months
before his death (I suspect, but can't confirm). There are some
pictures taken of him within a week or so of his death where he
looks much better, like he realized he was too thin and put on a
few pounds.
Salvador
===
Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
Also see Astucia's homepage: http://www.jfkmontreal.com
Jeff ------
5 years changes someone. I see nothing that
looks like he's not well. He might look 5 years older?
Mister Charlie
wrote:
>I think he lost too much weight and it made him look older in his
>face. I expect he wanted to be thin for PR purposes, but he
>got carried away. The pictures you showed were taken months
>before his death (I suspect, but can't confirm). There are some
>pictures taken of him within a week or so of his death where he
>looks much better, like he realized he was too thin and put on a
>few pounds.
>
>Salvador
Well, perhaps I can call a truce to our so-called feud by saying I
respectfully disagree with you about John's appearance at the time of
his death. Doctors who saw him in the emergency room on December 8,
1980 have said they were appalled at his physical condition (also, see
the Annie Leibovitz photo taken hours before his death showing John
completely nude in an utterly bizarre pose with a fully clothed Yoko.
He looked terrible.)
But I think George Harrison was onto something when he sensed that
John was under some kind of duress (i.e., mind control) at the time of
his visits to the Dakota.
Moreover, I believe it entirely possible that Yoko had some sort of
advance knowledge of what was going to happen to John that horrible
night. You will recall that Yoko was walking 10 to 15 feet BEHIND
John at the moment he was shot by Chapman, even though they both got
out of the limousine at the same time.
Think abou it.
Mister Charlie
Look, fuckwit, I don't talk in this stilted bullshit language you keep
trying to pass off as me. And as you well know I wouldn't piss on
Seaman if he were on fire (or you for that matter), so I sure as hell
ain't gonna quote him.
Try getting a life. Living mine is exciting for you, I know, and I'm
sure orgasms are even more intense now. But your frail and transparent
attempt at fooling the general populace is just making you look like a
bigger wanker than we already know you to be.
Mister Charlie
The post above is another forge by the same dickless, dildo-breath who
has been wanking me for the past few days. And I don't normally use
this kind of language.
Mister Charlie
"Mister Charlie" <smokerdu...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:48mln0dkvte9em1pa...@4ax.com...
Everyone knows -you- don't.
Conversely, everyone knows I DO.
You fool.
>
UsurperTom
> I think George Harrison was onto something when he sensed that John was under
some kind of duress
Actually, biographers have no knowledge of George seeing John during his last
years. If you look at the last known photo of John and Ringo together during a
visit to the Dakota in May 1979, John seems emaciated when he's next to Ringo.
Usurper
Ron Nasty
pour water into his collar bones and serve tea john had a anal
fixation and was obsessed with bowel movements he was sick from anal
cancer
Mister Charlie
LongTallSally11
>>> He doesn't look like a well man to me.
[Jeff]
> 5 years changes someone. I see nothing that
> looks like he's not well. He might look 5 years older?
I agree. About a year ago, I was in a library and saw a
book of mostly photographs of John, Yoko and Sean
during the last five years of his life. (I forget the name
of the book.) I too had once thought his face didn't look
very good in 1980. But many of the photos in the book
showed John with his shirt off or in short pants,
and as I recall, in swimming trunks. After reading
so much nonsense about his personal life, which
included rumors about his physical deterioration,
I was pleasantly surprised at how healthy he looked.
Yes, he was thin, but his muscle tone was quite good,
like he'd been weight lifting or working out. He didn't
look like a body builder or someone obsessed
with that sort of thing, but his muscle tone was quite
good. He definitely did not look like someone with
cancer or a serious illness. Face it, he'd been
extremely thin since about 1969. It just showed up
in his face when he hit 40. I suspect too, he was
very nervous about coming back into public life,
and the apprehension was present in his face in
many photos.
Mister Charlie
wrote:
>[Mister Charlie or his clone]
>>>> He doesn't look like a well man to me.
>
>[Jeff]
>> 5 years changes someone. I see nothing that
>> looks like he's not well. He might look 5 years older?
>
>I agree. About a year ago, I was in a library and saw a
>book of mostly photographs of John, Yoko and Sean
>during the last five years of his life. (I forget the name
>of the book.) I too had once thought his face didn't look
>very good in 1980. But many of the photos in the book
>showed John with his shirt off or in short pants,
>and as I recall, in swimming trunks. After reading
>so much nonsense about his personal life, which
>included rumors about his physical deterioration,
>I was pleasantly surprised at how healthy he looked.
No one is suggesting he didn't look healthy and "John-like" up through
1979. I thought we were talking about late-1980.
>Yes, he was thin, but his muscle tone was quite good,
Again, Sal, look at the bizarre photos of John nude taken on the
afternoon of December 8, 1980 by Annie Leibovitz. I think you'll
change your tune.
>like he'd been weight lifting or working out. He didn't
>look like a body builder or someone obsessed
>with that sort of thing, but his muscle tone was quite
>good. He definitely did not look like someone with
>cancer or a serious illness. Face it, he'd been
>extremely thin since about 1969.
Ever see photos and videos of John taken in '71 during the "Imagine"
period or anytime in 1972? He would never again look that healthy.
> It just showed up
>in his face when he hit 40. I suspect too, he was
>very nervous about coming back into public life,
>and the apprehension was present in his face in
>many photos.>Salvador
That's a huge stretch, IMO. John seemed to truly enjoy his return to
public life. In all the recorded interviews from that period, there
is no evidence of nervousness on his part.
Mister Charlie
Just keeping score.
"Mister Charlie" <smokerdu...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:mqamn05q5ctkq78e6...@4ax.com...
Ehtue
> So far I have written NONE of the excerpts herein:
>
> Just keeping score.
Sox 11, Cards 9.
Rob
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041023212100...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Mister Charlie
Bug off and butt out.
Mister Charlie
<smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
>>
>> The post above is another forge by the same dickless, dildo-breath who
>> has been wanking me for the past few days. And I don't normally use
>> this kind of language.
>
>Everyone knows -you- don't.
>
>Conversely, everyone knows I DO.
>
>You fool.
This sanctimonious wanker cannot stop masturbating on this newsgroup
or on me. I have to keep wiping the gooey stuff from my face.
Mister Charlie
Mister Charlie
LOL...go back to your stilted tight-ass prose. Suddenly jumping to
naughty words just makes you look even more stupid, if possible.
whosbest54
<smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
>>
>> This sanctimonious wanker cannot stop masturbating on this newsgroup
>> or on me. I have to keep wiping the gooey stuff from my face.
>
>LOL...go back to your stilted tight-ass prose. Suddenly jumping to
>naughty words just makes you look even more stupid, if possible.
"Naughty words"??? LOL!!
See my page on naughty words http://naughtywords.com/
whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.
Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/
Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/rmb.html
LongTallSally11
>From: "Mister Charlie" smoker...@myway.com
>Date: 10/24/2004 12:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2u0pieF...@uni-berlin.de>
>
>So far I have written NONE of the excerpts herein:
>
>Just keeping score.
No problem. Most of us prefer the other guy. :-)
===
Mister Charlie
"whosbest54" <whosb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e4mnn0lh2337vpfh4...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:12:52 -0700, "Mister Charlie"
> <smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >> This sanctimonious wanker cannot stop masturbating on this
newsgroup
> >> or on me. I have to keep wiping the gooey stuff from my face.
> >
> >LOL...go back to your stilted tight-ass prose. Suddenly jumping to
> >naughty words just makes you look even more stupid, if possible.
>
> "Naughty words"??? LOL!!
>
> See my page on naughty words http://naughtywords.com/
>
>
puppy.
Mister Charlie
"LongTallSally11" <longtal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041024124110...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: My Take on Lennon's Final Days
> >From: "Mister Charlie" smoker...@myway.com
> >Date: 10/24/2004 12:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <2u0pieF...@uni-berlin.de>
> >
> >So far I have written NONE of the excerpts herein:
> >
> >Just keeping score.
>
> No problem. Most of us prefer the other guy. :-)
>
Wow. Funny. Who'd have thought an insane nazi could be so funny?
Mister Charlie
<smoker...@myway.com> wrote:
>> >So far I have written NONE of the excerpts herein:
>> >
>> >Just keeping score.
>>
>> No problem. Most of us prefer the other guy. :-)
>>
>
>Wow. Funny. Who'd have thought an insane nazi could be so funny?
On second thought, that remark was uncalled for. I apologize. You
may wish to accept the apology here and now because, as I'm sure
you've noticed, apologies from me on this newsgroup are an endangered
species.
Mister Charlie
"Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:kmqnn0lehathdhoef...@4ax.com...
Because the frequency of me being wrong is infinitesimal. Not like some
idiot who thinks Ringo can't drum. Now *there's* a rube who SHOULD be
apologizing, daily, for the rest of his miserable life.
Or the insane nazi troll who will say ANYthing to stir shit, no matter
how outrageous. What a pair.
whosbest54
whosb...@aol.com says...
>
>>>LOL...go back to your stilted tight-ass prose. Suddenly jumping to
>>naughty words just makes you look even more stupid, if possible.
>
>"Naughty words"??? LOL!!
>
>See my page on naughty words http://naughtywords.com/
>
client with Athenanews. I don't have an Athenanews account. See my
forgery page.
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/forgery.htm
He's now forging Charles as well at least in this thread. He's easy to
spot when looking at headers - look for an Athenanews account.
UsurperTom
> Is it possible to see that photo somewhere?
The photo can be found in Fred's book.
Usurper
Ron Nasty
pothead and probably had the fever from anal cancer or scrotum cancer
he was sickly and yoko fed him raw fish and rocky mountain oysters
MacBeatle
> > species.
>
>
> Because the frequency of me being wrong is infinitesimal.
Yeah. Just like the NYTimes, Teresa "I'm a rich bitch so I can say
anything I like" Kerry
and her asshole Ketchup-driven faux Viet Nam vet hubby.
>
> Or the insane nazi troll who will say ANYthing to stir shit, no matter
> how outrageous. What a pair.
You envious of his balls now?
Ali Assa Seen
> According to most of John Lennon's biographers, Lennon had an absolute
> horror of cremation... Despite his aversion, the
> Widow Lennon arranged to have his body burned ...
This brings to mind something I ran across in Where Are They Buried?
How Did They Die? by Tod Benoit (got it as a Christmas gift from a
relative last year, believe it or not). I quote:
"It's generally reported that John was cremated... However, the matter
was confused when in a 1990 interview, Yoko stated that John had
actually been buried. She didn't expand on the statement and didn't
say where he was buried. And she has never retracted the statement or
explained that she had been misunderstood. Instead, she simply has
never talked about it again."
Anybody here got a handle on THIS little tidbit of conspiracy-fodder?
I have to admit my curiousity has been piqued...
- Dr Strangemonde
Mister Charlie
"Ali Assa Seen" <dan...@realtime.net> wrote in message
news:7f65c52a.04110...@posting.google.com...
emanuel...@gmail.com
RJKe...@yahoo.com
> According to most of John Lennon's biographers, Lennon had an absolute
> considered protesting against in a song. Despite his aversion, the
> Widow Lennon arranged to have his body burned. And from the Channel
> 4 documentary "The Real John Lennon," it is clear that none of his
> family in England were consulted about this cavalier disposal of his
> corpse.
>
> John's 5 year old son Sean wasn't told the awful news until the
> morning of 10 December, two days after the murder happened.
> Understandably distraught, little Sean asked to see his father one
> last time, so Lennon's assistant Fred Seaman rang security man Douglas
> MacDougal at Ferncliff Mortuary and asked him to hold off on the
> cremation so that Sean could see his dad for the last time. It was
> too late. The body had already been burned.
>
> But it gets worse.
>
> According to Seaman's account in his excellent book "The Last Days of
> John Lennon", MacDougal told him that John's face had been serene and
> calm until just before the body entered the gas oven, when suddenly it
> contorted into a "pained, macabre grin" (a la Mr. Sardonicus)
> apparently due to advanced rigor mortis.
>
> MacDougal had also warned Yoko a couple of months before the murder
> that the Lennons were running crazy risks by making their daily
> routine public and not having proper bodyguards. She told him she had
> no intention of arranging for John to have bodyguards.
>
> I believe there was something profoundly sinister about John's
> reclusive final years with the astrology obsessed Yoko Ono and her
> mind control techniques.
>
> George Harrison once said of visits to the Dakota, "I always felt
> there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
> say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
> his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
> before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
> He doesn't look like a well man to me.
P-Dub
It's sad that John was quickly cremated without any regard to how Sean (or anyone else) might feel about it - or even be informed. In her defense, Yoko was distraught to say the least.
I, for one, do not believe cremation is a horror. But it should be handled in a dignified manner, and the family should be on board.
geoff
>> George Harrison once said of visits to the Dakota, "I always felt
>> there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
>> say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
>> his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
>> before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
>>
>> He doesn't look like a well man to me.
>
> I wouldn't say John looked bad per se, but in 1980 he appeared to have aged a lot more than five years since he was previously in the public. Chain-smoking and weird diets are probably to blame.
>
geoff
RJKe...@yahoo.com
Raymond
> >Subject: My Take on Lennon's Final Days
> >From: Mister Charlie smokerdu...@myway.com
> >Date: 10/23/2004 9:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <cdnkn098mqj8gpkhe...@4ax.com>
>
> <snipped morbid stuff>
> >George Harrison once said of visits to the Dakota, "I always felt
> >there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
> >say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
> >his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
> >before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
> >
> >He doesn't look like a well man to me.
>
> face. I expect he wanted to be thin for PR purposes, but he
> got carried away. The pictures you showed were taken months
> before his death (I suspect, but can't confirm). There are some
> pictures taken of him within a week or so of his death where he
> looks much better, like he realized he was too thin and put on a
> few pounds.
>
> Salvador
>
>
> ===
> Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
> http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
>
> Also see Astucia's homepage: http://www.jfkmontreal.com
RJKe...@yahoo.com
Joe Mahoney
> there was something more that he wanted to say but didn't feel able to
> say or was afraid to. There was a sad, sometimes frightened look in
> his eyes." Look at some pictures of Lennon in the studio not long
> before his death at www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
> He doesn't look like a well man to me.
curtis...@gmail.com
Yoko said that a single glass of wine would make him unable to function for a day. A single glass?!?
curtis...@gmail.com
> [Mister Charlie or his clone]
> > 5 years changes someone. I see nothing that
> > looks like he's not well. He might look 5 years older?
> I agree. About a year ago, I was in a library and saw a
> book of mostly photographs of John, Yoko and Sean
> during the last five years of his life. (I forget the name
> of the book.) I too had once thought his face didn't look
> very good in 1980. But many of the photos in the book
> showed John with his shirt off or in short pants,
> and as I recall, in swimming trunks. After reading
> so much nonsense about his personal life, which
> included rumors about his physical deterioration,
> I was pleasantly surprised at how healthy he looked.
> look like a body builder or someone obsessed
> with that sort of thing, but his muscle tone was quite
> good. He definitely did not look like someone with
> cancer or a serious illness. Face it, he'd been
> very nervous about coming back into public life,
> and the apprehension was present in his face in
> many photos.
> ===
> Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
> http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
> Also see Astucia's homepage: http://www.jfkmontreal.com
