OT: For those following events in Egypt

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Fattuchus

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Feb 5, 2011, 11:11:01 PM2/5/11
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The Egyptian government is already engaged in talks with the Muslim
Brotherhood, a radical organization:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/06/c_13720412.htm


Looks like Egypt is going to go the way of Lebanon, Gaza, etc. This is
bad news.

who?

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Feb 6, 2011, 2:48:15 AM2/6/11
to

The entire world is in bad shape. The Bible says these things
will happen. It's nothing new. We are up in the years and
won't see much of the worst things. Too much sex going
on creates more kooks in the world. Yoko is responsible.

topaz

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Feb 6, 2011, 4:45:26 AM2/6/11
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I have posted material on the Muslim Brotherhood at another thread
recently (I believe the thread regarding the imams visiting a
concentration camp )
They are the parent organization of CAIR and HAMAS.

CAIR is the nonindited co conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation
terrorism case made by our Federal authorities. I do find it
interesting that Obama pu blically stated that Mubarak should leave
NOW, but when Iran had all that voter turmoil he was carefully
silent. He seems to be humiliating our allies, as mentioned on a
recent PBS talk show by one of the more liberal pundits (McGl0ughlin
group)/ What he (Obama) did is humilate Mubarak publically rather
than allow him to leave quietly and figure out how to do this while
saving face.


For an Arab leader to just leave because the POTUS says so is
humliating, and I think it was foolish for Obama to say this
publically. I also read that Obama invited the Muslim Brotherhood to
the 2009 Cairo speech. It does make you wonder what his game plan
is, when he keeps saying that he is friends with Israel.

Certainly he must know that the Muslim Brotherhood murdered Sadat.,

RichL

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Feb 6, 2011, 9:32:16 AM2/6/11
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"Fattuchus" <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d47169fd-f18a-46d2...@w21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

No it doesn't. The MB is only one of numerous parties engaged in dialogue
with the Egyptian government.

I found the following quote from the MB wikipedia article interesting:

While studying at university, Osama bin Laden claimed to have been
influenced by the religious and political ideas of several professors with
strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood including both Sayyid Qutb and his
brother Muhammad Qutb. However, once Al Qaeda was fully organized, it
denounced the Muslim Brotherhood's reform through nonviolence and accused
them of "betraying the cause of Islam and abandoning their 'jihad' in favour
of forming political parties and supporting modern state institutions".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

Nevertheless, the views representative of the MB appear to be decidedly in
the minority among those clamoring for reform and democracy in Egypt. But
the longer true reform is delayed, the more likely it is that extremist
views will gain a foothold.

chatnoir

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Feb 6, 2011, 4:31:53 PM2/6/11
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On Feb 6, 6:32 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:d47169fd-f18a-46d2...@w21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The Egyptian government is already engaged in talks with the Muslim
> > Brotherhood, a radical organization:
>
> >http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/06/c_13720412.htm
>
> > Looks likeEgyptis going to go the way of Lebanon, Gaza, etc. This is

> > bad news.
>
> No it doesn't.  The MB is only one of numerous parties engaged in dialogue
> with the Egyptian government.
>
> I found the following quote from the MB wikipedia article interesting:
>
> While studying at university, Osama bin Laden claimed to have been
> influenced by the religious and political ideas of several professors with
> strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood including both Sayyid Qutb and his
> brother Muhammad Qutb. However, once Al Qaeda was fully organized, it
> denounced the Muslim Brotherhood's reform through nonviolence and accused
> them of "betraying the cause of Islam and abandoning their 'jihad' in favour
> of forming political parties and supporting modern state institutions".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
>
> Nevertheless, the views representative of the MB appear to be decidedly in
> the minority among those clamoring for reform and democracy inEgypt.  But

> the longer true reform is delayed, the more likely it is that extremist
> views will gain a foothold.

Egypt's threat is from the US also!:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/05/stillborn-revolution-a-cautionary-tale/

Stillborn Revolution: A Cautionary Tale
by William Blum
February 5, 2011
ShareIn July of 1975 I went to Portugal because in April of the
previous year a bloodless military coup had brought down the US-
supported 48-year fascist regime of Portugal, the world’s only
remaining colonial power. This was followed by a program centered on
nationalization of major industries, workers control, a minimum wage,
land reform, and other progressive measures. Military officers in a
Western nation who spoke like socialists was science fiction to my
American mind, but it had become a reality in Portugal.

The center of Lisbon was crowded from morning till evening with people
discussing the changes and putting up flyers on bulletin boards. The
visual symbol of the Portuguese “revolution” had become the picture of
a child sticking a rose into the muzzle of a rifle held by a friendly
soldier, and I got caught up in demonstrations and parades featuring
people, including myself, standing on tanks and throwing roses, with
the crowds cheering the soldiers.

It was pretty heady stuff, and I dearly wanted to believe, but I and
most people I spoke to there had little doubt that the United States
could not let such a breath of fresh air last very long. The overthrow
of the Chilean government less than two years earlier had raised the
world’s collective political consciousness, as well as the level of
skepticism and paranoia on the left.

Washington and multinational corporate officials who were on the board
of directors of the planet were indeed concerned. Besides anything
else, Portugal was a member of NATO. Destabilization became the order
of the day: covert actions; attacks in the US press; subverting trade
unions; subsidizing opposition media; economic sabotage through
international credit and commerce; heavy financing of selected
candidates in elections; a US cut-off of Portugal from certain
military and nuclear information commonly available to NATO members;
NATO naval and air exercises off the Portuguese coast, with 19 NATO
warships moored in Lisbon’s harbor, regarded by most Portuguese as an
attempt to intimidate the provisional government. In 1976 the
“Socialist” Party (scarcely further left and no less anti-communist
than the US Democratic Party) came to power, heavily financed by the
CIA, the Agency also arranging for Western European social-democratic
parties to help foot the bill. The Portuguese revolution was dead,
stillborn.[1]

The events in Egypt cannot help but remind me of Portugal. Here,
there, and everywhere, now and before, the United States of America,
as always, is petrified of anything genuinely progressive or
socialist, or even too democratic, for that carries the danger of
allowing god-knows what kind of non-America-believer taking office.
Honduras 2009, Haiti 2004, Venezuela 2002, Ecuador 2000, Bulgaria
1990, Nicaragua 1990 … dozens more … anything, anyone, if there’s a
choice, even a dictator, a torturer, is better.

Notes

[1] William Blum, “Rogue State: A Guide to the World’s Only
Superpower“, pages 187, 228 for sources

topaz

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Feb 8, 2011, 8:36:20 PM2/8/11
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Fattuchus

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Feb 9, 2011, 12:09:31 AM2/9/11
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On Feb 8, 8:36 pm, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 11:11 pm, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:> The Egyptian government is already engaged in talks with the Muslim
> > Brotherhood, a radical organization:
>
> >http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/06/c_13720412.htm
>
> > Looks like Egypt is going to go the way of Lebanon, Gaza, etc. This is
> > bad news.
>
> Jew hatred and the Egyptian protests
>
> http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/democracy-or-jew-hatred-more-evidence-of...

>
> The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood speaks
>
> http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1991
>
> The Muslim Brotherhood in its own words
>
> http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=1&DBID=1&LNGID=1...

Many well meaning people who support the Egyptian democracy movement
are blind to the widespread hatred many Arabs have for Jews, Israel
and the West. There are very few Jews left in Arab lands. Almost a
million Jews were driven out in thev 1940's and 1950's.

What Arabs call democracy and what Westerners call democracy are not
the same. For true democracy to exist in Egypt, IMO there needs to be
50 or 100 years of evolution there. They are probably not ready. I
predict this will be tragic for Israel and its allies.

topaz

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Feb 9, 2011, 5:21:53 PM2/9/11
to
> predict this will be tragic for Israel and its allies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are correct and the way the Muslim Brotherhood defines
'terrorism" is not the same way that most americans define the word.
The goal of the Muslim Brotherhood is to USE democracy to further
Islam, and ultimately to eliminate democracy. Example: HAMAS in
Gaza. Unfortunately people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Brigette Gabriel
are trying to warn the west and so many are ignorant.


topaz

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Feb 9, 2011, 5:44:34 PM2/9/11
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> are trying to warn the west and so many are ignorant.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

More self descriptions, of the Muslim Brotherhood, a group that Obama
invited to his Cairo speech


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/muslim-brotherhood-prepare-yourself-and-train-in-the-art-of-warfareso-that-your-jihad-will-be-the-on-print.html


Mack A. Damia

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Feb 9, 2011, 5:50:20 PM2/9/11
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On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:44:34 -0800 (PST), topaz <topaz...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Topaz, keep you friends close and your enemies closer.

What's all this Glenn Beck vomit about the two Bush presidents in bed
with the Islamic "Caliphate"?


topaz

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Feb 12, 2011, 6:06:28 AM2/12/11
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On Feb 9, 5:50 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:44:34 -0800 (PST), topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com>
> >http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/muslim-brotherhood-prepare-yourself...

>
> Topaz, keep you friends close and your enemies closer.
>
> What's all this Glenn Beck vomit about the two Bush presidents in bed
> with the Islamic "Caliphate"?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


I really cannot answer your question because I do not follow Glenn
Beck. Sure, I channel surf from time to time and I might by accident
catch him on TV just like any other pundit and watch him for 2 minutes
until I get bored and flip the channel.
However I cannot tell you the last time I watched or listen to Glenn
and I do not read his articles.
Frankly he may or may not have some facts in what he says however he
is so histrionic at times it turns me off. IF he said the Bushes are
in bed with the "Caliphate" I would have to guess and this is totally
a guess that it has to do with the American desire for Saudi Oil.
I am disappointed that Obama did not speak out so strongly about the
fixed election in Iran and all the protests that took place there.
Instead he stabbed the leader of Egypt in the back, a US ally for
years. I believe Obama should have perhaps told Mubarak behind the
scenes to leave rather than publically disgrace him. My opinion and
the opinion of one of the more liberal pundits on the McGloughlin
Group on PBS.


topaz

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Feb 12, 2011, 6:10:39 AM2/12/11
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On Feb 9, 12:09 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> predict this will be tragic for Israel and its allies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Events in Egypt and the way of Mohammad (ARTICLE STARTS DIRECTLY
BELOW THIS LINE)--from www.politicalislam.com

Islam and the Egyptian Political Future
February 11, 2011

Published in American Thinker

Today we see the politics in Egypt in change and the question of the
day is “what will happen to the government?” The details cannot be
known, but the future will probably be some version of the past a past
is driven by Islamic political doctrine.

All Islamic political doctrine is determined by the example of
Mohammed. His rise to power was not by winning elections, but in the
use of armed force. Mohammed averaged an event of violence on the
average of every six weeks for the last nine years of his life. He may
have been the prophet of Allah, but his rule was in parallel to other
absolute rulers.

Historically, fascism was a political system in power in Italy in the
middle twentieth century. Today, the term has come to mean:

• An authoritarian political system with a strong leader who is
glorified.
• Mass demonstrations play a political role.
• Totalitarian rule without an opposing political party.
• Militaristic--advocate the use of force to advance the ideology.

Even the casual observer can see that Islam has many of these
features.

Political Domination

Mohammed is the ideal Islamic leader. He rose to power by force of arms
—jihad. Jihad was critical in his rise to total and absolute power.

The Sunna (the perfect example of a Muslim life) of Mohammed is found
in the Hadith (Traditions) and Sira (his biography). The three texts,
Koran, Sira and Hadith, are named the Trilogy. If it is in the
Trilogy, it is Islam. If it is not in the Trilogy, it is not Islam.
Here is a chart of how much text is devoted to jihad in the Islamic
texts:


Jihad is a large part of Islamic doctrine. It is not a verse or two,
but a dominant theme. In his jihad phase, Mohammed attacked his
nearest neighbor and then the next nearest. He attacked with
propaganda and the sword. This remains Islamic hegemonic political
doctrine.

Islam’s political purpose is for the entire world to be under Sharia
law.

The Elimination of Political Enemies by Force

Islam started as a religious ideology in Mecca, but in Medina it
quickly moved to the use of lethal force by men sent out with orders
to attack commercial targets, kill, capture and take all wealth. The
captured victims were ransomed, executed, enslaved and tortured. The
size of the forces ranged from single assassins to small bands and
armies.

This military philosophy was so important that it was given a unique
name—jihad. What is so brilliant about jihad is its civilizational
scope. Armed force was merely the final stage in a system of war
against all Kafirs. Jihad is practiced by armed force, speech, writing
and cash contributions through charities. (Note: the inner or
spiritual jihad is mentioned in less than 2% of texts.)

The graph below shows the efficiency of jihad. The conversion rate
went from about ten a year to ten thousand per year.

Jihad has been the most effective system of military force known to
humanity. Today, no one kills for Julius Caesar, Napoleon or any other
military leader of history. Kafirs die daily because of jihad.
Approximately 270 million Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and
Africans have been destroyed by jihad over the last 1400 years.

Islam created the word “assassin”. Mohammed repeatedly used assassins
to eliminate his political enemies, including artists and
intellectuals. A partial list includes:

Person Al Ashraf Abu Rafi Marwan’s Dtr. Abu Afak Rifaa b. Qays
Function Poet Poet Poet Critic Tribal Chief
Source Bukhari 5,59,369 Bukhari 5,59,371 Ishaq 995 Ishaq 995 Ishaq
990

A Partial List of Assassinated Intellectuals and Leaders
Strong Leader

When Mohammed died he did not have an enemy left standing. All Arabs
within his horizon were Muslims. He absolutely and completely
dominated all political life in a unified Arabia. Mohammed is the
perfect example of an Islamic political leader. He was absolute in his
power. He was the judge, lawgiver, military leader, intellectual
leader, spiritual leader, and political leader.

He rose to power through his own efforts and became the ultimate
strongman. He did not leave behind a process for Islam to choose
leaders other than imitating his methods.

Nationalism

All Muslims are a part of the umma, the Islamic community or nation.
This concept goes beyond the usual geographic boundaries of nation.
The al Qaeda idea of restoring the caliphate is based upon going back
to a supreme leader who rises to power and rules all Muslims as the
global umma.

The umma means that every Muslim living in a Kafir nation has two
allegiances—the nation and Islam. Islam demands that a Muslim’s first
allegiance is to the umma, not the nation. Therefore, the Islamic
version of nationalism is umma-ism.

Mass demonstrations

Islam does mass demonstrations and riots like a symphony orchestra
plays Bach. Demonstrations are a political tradition. The Islamic mass
demonstration is so common that we do not really see the brilliance
and perfection that is in their execution. Mass demonstrations and
riots are happening in Europe and we will soon feel the pressure of
them in America when Islam has greater numbers.

Over time Political Islam dominates every country where Islam was
introduced. At some point in the process, street riots, mass rallies
and assassinations become part of the political process of domination
by Islam, until complete political dominance is achieved.

Israel and Islam

At first Islam was kind to the Jews, but in the end Mohammed exiled,
enslaved and annihilated every Jew in Arabia. This is recorded in the
Trilogy. Examine the next chart:


There is less Jew hatred in Mein Kampf than in the Trilogy. Hence,
Islamic texts can be compared to Mein Kampf. Ask this question: if
Egypt becomes more Islamic, as the Muslim Brotherhood wants, what will
the new Egyptian policy be towards Israel?

Conclusion

Islam has fascist qualities. The next government in Egypt will have a
fig leaf of democracy, but if the past is any guide it will be fascist
in it implementation and rule. Egypt will become more Sharia
compliant, which is bad news for all Christians in Egypt.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Warner, Director, Center for the Study of Political Islam
Permalink /blog/islam-and-the-egyptian-political-future/
copyright (c) CBSX, LLC, politicalislam.com

Fattuchus

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Feb 12, 2011, 6:49:29 AM2/12/11
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

>
> Bill Warner, Director, Center for the Study of Political Islam
> Permalink /blog/islam-and-the-egyptian-political-future/
> copyright (c) CBSX, LLC, politicalislam.com- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Excellent analysis. Thanks for posting this. Nothing snipped.

Mack A. Damia

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Feb 12, 2011, 7:39:26 AM2/12/11
to

I didn't see any public disgrace. We're only doing what we vowed to
do decades ago - stay out of the internal squabblings of foreign
governments - a pledge we have broken when it so suits us.

Many of us in a political forum think that this will be the shortest
democracy in recorded history. If the Suez Canal is affected, you
think Iraq and Afghanistan are bloody messes? Just wait.

marcuscp

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:22:31 AM2/12/11
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On Feb 12, 11:39 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 03:06:28 -0800 (PST), topaz
>
>
>

Muslim Brotherhood are going to get you,
gonna knock right on the head,
Better get yourself together darling,
pretty soon you're gonna be dead.

You yanks are so funny. Your paranoia, Your narcissism. Your violence.
Your preferred payrolled dictator has gone. No one cares what you
think. Poor little apartheid fascist Israel. Three cheers for the
people of Egypt,
Be afwaid, be vewy afwaid.

Mack A. Damia

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:36:19 AM2/12/11
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It's not just the Yanks, you fucking dweeb, it's the entire world.

By the way, I'm not American-born, and I live in Latin America.

I was trained in the diagnosis of mental disorders (really) and you
are a raving paranoid schizophrenic. I'd bet the farm on it.

marcuscp

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:41:36 AM2/12/11
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Your funny farm I s'pose.

marcuscp

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:57:10 AM2/12/11
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BTW, before I trot off to bed, I must say that I do (really) find your
blatherings curiously entertaining in that kind of gnashing-of-teeth-
frothing-of-mouth-dragging-of-knuckles-popping-of-eyes-steaming-ears
kind of thing. Anyway, thanks for the free diagnosis, I'm quite beside
myself. Me too.

Mack A. Damia

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Feb 12, 2011, 9:17:56 AM2/12/11
to

No, jerk. That would be a multiple personality disorder.

You imagine things that aren't there; you hear things that aren't
said, you have delusions.

You don't know very much, do you?

Yes, it is the funny farm, and we are the wardens of cretins such as
yourself. Now stop making trouble and go back to your crocheting.

We'd castrate you, but you don't have any balls.

RichL

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Feb 12, 2011, 9:48:30 AM2/12/11
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"Fattuchus" <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2079848f-9cbe-4409...@l11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

> Excellent analysis. Thanks for posting this. Nothing snipped.

No it's not, it's the usual hysterical tripe propagated by the Muslim
haters. You CLAIM to know better, but your base instincts lead you to
support those motivated by bigotry. It's just mindless generalization
(again) with no connection whatsoever to what actually happened (and is
happening) in Egypt.

No, there's no GUARANTEE that the overthrow of Mubarak will result in a
genuinely democratic and secular government in Egypt, but I can tell you
this, if all democratically-minded people react to it in the same way as
topaz & co., I'll guarantee you that the likelihood of an Islamic state will
INCREASE dramatically.

Positive encouragement of genuinely democratic factions in Egypt would make
a lot more sense, don't you think?

Fattuchus

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:47:38 PM2/12/11
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On Feb 12, 8:22 am, marcuscp <phelanmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I didn't see any public disgrace.  We're only doing what we vowed to
> > do decades ago - stay out of the internal squabblings of foreign
> > governments - a pledge we have broken when it so suits us.
>
> > Many of us in a political forum think that this will be the shortest
> > democracy in recorded history.  If the Suez Canal is affected, you
> > think Iraq and Afghanistan are bloody messes?  Just wait.
>
> Muslim Brotherhood are going to get you,
> gonna knock right on the head,
> Better get yourself together darling,
> pretty soon  you're gonna be dead.
>
> You yanks are so funny. Your paranoia, Your narcissism. Your violence.


"You yanks???"

This "yank" was in Manhattan during the first attack on the World
Trade Center. I heard the explosion. And I was inside an office
building. I was walking distance from the WTC at the time.

This "yank" was just a few miles away during the second attack on the
World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. This "yank" smelled the Towers
burning and saw the huge plume of smoke and ash billowing miles up
into the sky and then making a 90 degree turn. Our TV and phone
service was interrupted. All commercial air travel was halted that
day. The only sounds from the sky were helicopters and U.S. Air Force
jets patrolling our skies.

This "yank" heard police sirens and ambulance sirens
a l l d a y l o n g rushing from miles away to the burning
Towers.

This "yank" knows of several neighbors who were police officers and/or
firefighters who rushed to the scene, never to return home, because
the buildings collapsed on those heroes.

> Your preferred payrolled dictator has gone. No one cares what you
> think. Poor little apartheid fascist Israel. Three cheers for the
> people of Egypt,

> Be afwaid, be vewy afwaid.-

If the new government of Egypt breaches its peace treaty with Israel,
it is Egypt and the people of Egypt who should be "vewy afwaid."
Under the Camp David treaty, the United States has obligated itself to
defend Israel, using military force if necessary, should Egypt violate
the peace treaty.

Egypt gets considerable monetary and military aid from the U.S.

If the new government of Egypt should close the Sinai Canal or
otherwise interferes with the world's access to oil, IMO ultimately it
should be Egypt that should be "vewy afwaid."

Fattuchus

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Feb 12, 2011, 8:58:54 PM2/12/11
to
On Feb 12, 9:48 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:2079848f-9cbe-4409...@l11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Excellent analysis. Thanks for posting this.  Nothing snipped.
>
> No it's not, it's the usual hysterical tripe propagated by the Muslim
> haters.  You CLAIM to know better, but your base instincts lead you to
> support those motivated by bigotry.  It's just mindless generalization
> (again) with no connection whatsoever to what actually happened (and is
> happening) in Egypt.
>
> No, there's no GUARANTEE that the overthrow of Mubarak will result in a
> genuinely democratic and secular government in Egypt, but I can tell you
> this, if all democratically-minded people react to it in the same way as
> topaz & co., I'll guarantee you that the likelihood of an Islamic state will
> INCREASE dramatically.


Are you familiar with the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood? This is
the organization that assassinated Sadat because he made peace with
Israel. Could their goals, methods and intentions be any clearer?
The Muslim Brotherhood has said openly their goal is to destroy
Israel.

Do you really think that the Muslim Brotherhood will have no role in
the new government? We've seen several times what happens when these
Muslim fundamentalist organizations are involved in governments (i.e.
Hizbollah, Hamas and Iran.)

>
> Positive encouragement of genuinely democratic factions in Egypt would make
> a lot more sense, don't you think?

Of course it is a good idea to encourage democratic factions in
Egypt. The problem is that in a place like Egypt, it is impossible to
separate "genuinely democratic factions" from anti Western
fundamentalist groups.

One example: it was the U.S. that pressed for "democratic" elections
in Gaza, over Israeli concerns. Look what happened. The people
"elected" Hamas, an anti Jewish fundamentalist terrorist
organization. And this "successful election" took place following
Hamas' use of strong arm tactics to surpress opposition.

Many people in Israel are concerned, and rightfully so. And, BTW, the
governments of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. are also worried. Do
you suppose they may know more about the politics of the Middle East
than we do?

By the way, remember that Adolph Hitler was democratically elected in
Germany. We all know how that turned out.

who?

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Feb 12, 2011, 9:41:13 PM2/12/11
to

You are talking about Muslims...when I have posted two
comedy Youtube videos of me in the Valentines thread
of yours. I think I'm going to cry...boo hoo.

Fattuchus

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Feb 12, 2011, 9:46:52 PM2/12/11
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> of yours. I think I'm going to cry...boo hoo.-

Thank you, Jeff. I'll take a look, when I can.

topaz

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Feb 12, 2011, 9:47:22 PM2/12/11
to
On Feb 12, 8:22 am, marcuscp <phelanmar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Be afwaid, be vewy afwaid.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hopefully a true democracy will ultimately be the result in Egypt not
the false "freedom" of Islamofascism which is what the Muslim
Brotherhood really promises. True democracy is certainly possible.
However with that democracy should also come equality for all
faiths, an end to harrassment and killing of the Copts, and true
equality between men and women.
Oh a question for you: what connects the Muslim Brotherhood, HAMAS
and the Bali Bombings-- where Australians were killed and maimed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings


The earlier bombing in 2002 was the bloodiest terrorist attack in
Indonesia ever, many Australians killed.
And when the planes crashed into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, do
you think the terrorists minded how many Australians or fellow
Muslims were in those buildings? No they did not

who?

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 9:47:44 PM2/12/11
to

Thanks, Fatt.

topaz

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 10:35:50 PM2/12/11
to
On Feb 5, 11:11 pm, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Egyptian government is already engaged in talks with the Muslim
> Brotherhood, a radical organization:
>
> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/06/c_13720412.htm
>
> Looks like Egypt is going to go the way of Lebanon, Gaza, etc. This is
> bad news.

Other events regarding Egypt--what will happen to the Copts

http://www.copts.com/english/?p=680

http://www.copts.com/english/?p=672


http://www.copts.com/english/?p=722


What happened to the Jews of Egypt? Note--the last Jewish wedding
took place per this article in 1984.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt


Gee Fatts why do you think that is??


Mack A. Damia

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 11:17:27 PM2/12/11
to

Topaz, you really ought to stop grousing about Arabs, Jews,
Isalmofascists, Coptic Christians, Egyptians, Israelis, etc.....and
start worrying about your own ass.

You're in deeper do-do than you realize.


RichL

unread,
Feb 12, 2011, 11:56:40 PM2/12/11
to
"Fattuchus" <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:128db284-76a9-4ad6...@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

> Are you familiar with the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood? This is
> the organization that assassinated Sadat because he made peace with
> Israel. Could their goals, methods and intentions be any clearer?
> The Muslim Brotherhood has said openly their goal is to destroy
> Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anwar_El_Sadat

Funny, no mention at all of the Muslim Brotherhood in this article.


>
> Do you really think that the Muslim Brotherhood will have no role in
> the new government? We've seen several times what happens when these
> Muslim fundamentalist organizations are involved in governments (i.e.
> Hizbollah, Hamas and Iran.)

Not all Muslim fundamental organizations are the same. The Brotherhood is
vehemently opposed to Al Queda.
If a significant portion of the people in Egypt are sympathetic to the
Brotherhood, why should they be denied a role in the government? From what
I've seen their views represent about 20% of the Egyptian population. I
don't think there's much danger of them becoming a majority.


>
>> Positive encouragement of genuinely democratic factions in Egypt would
>> make
>> a lot more sense, don't you think?
>
> Of course it is a good idea to encourage democratic factions in
> Egypt. The problem is that in a place like Egypt, it is impossible to
> separate "genuinely democratic factions" from anti Western
> fundamentalist groups.

No it's not. Listen to what the people are saying. It's pretty clear.


>
> One example: it was the U.S. that pressed for "democratic" elections
> in Gaza, over Israeli concerns. Look what happened. The people
> "elected" Hamas, an anti Jewish fundamentalist terrorist
> organization. And this "successful election" took place following
> Hamas' use of strong arm tactics to surpress opposition.

Egypt is not Gaza.


>
> Many people in Israel are concerned, and rightfully so. And, BTW, the
> governments of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. are also worried. Do
> you suppose they may know more about the politics of the Middle East
> than we do?

Of course the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, etc. are worried,
they've just seen a dictatorial regime toppled and they're worried about
their own skins.

And let's not forget either that Indonesia, which has the largest number of
Muslims of any country in the world, has a legitimate democratic republic
after they threw out their OWN dictator.


>
> By the way, remember that Adolph Hitler was democratically elected in
> Germany. We all know how that turned out.

Oh, so all democracies elect dictators, then? Good grief!

King Size Johnson

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 12:11:47 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oh, so all democracies elect dictators, then?  Good grief!

No sense in discussing politics with Judaicentric (?) minds, Rich --
everything boils down to 'what's best for Israel?'. Israel can do no
wrong, and everyone (including you and me) is a potential threat.

It really makes you wonder where their loyalties lie -- with Israel or
the US?

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 12:42:10 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:128db284-76a9-4ad6...@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Are you familiar with the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood?  This is
> > the organization that assassinated Sadat because he made peace with
> > Israel.  Could their goals, methods and intentions be any clearer?
> > The Muslim Brotherhood has said openly their goal is to destroy
> > Israel.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anwar_El_Sadat
>
> Funny, no mention at all of the Muslim Brotherhood in this article.

Then may I suggest this one:

http://middleeast.about.com/od/egypt/a/me081006a.htm

Sadat was killed because he made peace with Israel and sought to
secularize Egypt.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 12:50:42 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>


> > Do you really think that the Muslim Brotherhood will have no role in
> > the new government?  We've seen several times what happens when these
> > Muslim fundamentalist organizations are involved in governments (i.e.
> > Hizbollah, Hamas and Iran.)
>
> Not all Muslim fundamental organizations are the same.  The Brotherhood is
> vehemently opposed to Al Queda.

The Brotherhood is vehemently opposed to Israel and secularism. The
Brotherhood does not support equality and freedom of religion.

Not all democracies are the same. You oppose racism and bigotry. So
do I. But understand that democracy, meaning a fairly elected govt.,
is not always the same as civil rights.

In the 18th and 19th century, the US was a democracy. But blacks and
others were slaves, women could not vote, and there was widespread
discrimination in other areas of life..

> If a significant portion of the people in Egypt are sympathetic to the
> Brotherhood, why should they be denied a role in the government?  From what
> I've seen their views represent about 20% of the Egyptian population.  I
> don't think there's much danger of them becoming a majority.


IMO the fact that they have support of 20% of Egypt is troublesome.
Imagine if here in the US, the KKK or some neo-Nazi group had support
of 20% of the people.
IMO 1% support is too much.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 12:55:55 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>


> >> Positive encouragement of genuinely democratic factions in Egypt would
> >> make
> >> a lot more sense, don't you think?
>
> > Of course it is a good idea to encourage democratic factions in
> > Egypt.  The problem is that in a place like Egypt, it is impossible to
> > separate "genuinely democratic factions" from anti Western
> > fundamentalist groups.
>
> No it's not.  Listen to what the people are saying.  It's pretty clear.
>
>
>
> > One example:  it was the U.S. that pressed for "democratic" elections
> > in Gaza, over Israeli concerns.  Look what happened.  The people
> > "elected" Hamas, an anti Jewish fundamentalist terrorist
> > organization.  And this "successful election" took place following
> > Hamas' use of strong arm tactics to surpress opposition.
>
> Egypt is not Gaza.

The Muslim Brotherhood supports Hamas.

The Mubarak govt. helped Israel blockade Gaza and tried to stop
illegal smuggling into Gaza. Who knows what a new govt. will do.


>
>
>
> > Many people in Israel are concerned, and rightfully so. And, BTW, the
> > governments of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. are also worried.  Do
> > you suppose they may know more about the politics of the Middle East
> > than we do?
>
> Of course the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, etc. are worried,
> they've just seen a dictatorial regime toppled and they're worried about
> their own skins.
>

Sure. But right now the govt. of Yemen is fighting al Queda in Yemen,
and Saudi Arabia is our biggest oil supplier.
Believe me, I don't like these Arab govts. either, but it may be
better to deal with the devil we know rather than the
devils we don't know.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 1:16:12 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message


Gaza is run by Hamas, a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 1:58:51 AM2/13/11
to
BTW, RichL, one of the key leaders in the Egyptian movement is this
fellow:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/30/iranian-nuclear-weapons-mohamed-elbaradei

Elbaradei. The fellow who said there was no evidence Iran is building
a nuclear weapon.

BTW, the government of Iran has applauded Mubarak's ouster. Gee, I
wonder why. :-(

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 2:12:18 AM2/13/11
to
From the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13egypt.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp


"While the Egyptian military’s commitment to international treaties
reassured the United States and Israel, there was no indication
whether such a pledge would survive a new government. The protesters
in the square made it clear that they would reconsider all of Mr.
Mubarak’s foreign alliances, and many frequently referred to the
deposed president as an Israeli or American agent. "

marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 3:25:31 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 6:12 pm, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From the NY Times:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13egypt.html?pagew...

>
> "While the Egyptian military’s commitment to international treaties
> reassured the United States and Israel, there was no indication
> whether such a pledge would survive a new government. The protesters
> in the square made it clear that they would reconsider all of Mr.
> Mubarak’s foreign alliances, and many frequently referred to the
> deposed president as an Israeli or American agent. "

This "yank" was in Manhattan during the first attack on the World


Trade Center. I heard the explosion. And I was inside an office
building. I was walking distance from the WTC at the time.

This "yank" was just a few miles away during the second attack on the
World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. This "yank" smelled the Towers
burning and saw the huge plume of smoke and ash billowing miles up
into the sky and then making a 90 degree turn. Our TV and phone
service was interrupted. All commercial air travel was halted that
day. The only sounds from the sky were helicopters and U.S. Air Force
jets patrolling our skies.

This "yank" heard police sirens and ambulance sirens
a l l d a y l o n g rushing from miles away to the burning
Towers.

Then you should be able to empathise with the Palestinians, especially
in the prison ghetto of Gaza who have been regularly subjected to
indiscriminate slaughter and destruction of homes, schools, sewage
plants etc and terrorised and humiliated daily by the Israelis. The
Lebanese could relate to that as well. But still, bad as they are, the
US's proxy middle east state can't hold a candle (or phosphorous
flare) to you yanks when it comes to state terror.

Mack A. Damia

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 3:32:55 AM2/13/11
to


I think you are a liar.

marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 3:41:10 AM2/13/11
to

worst.reply,ever.

Mack A. Damia

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 3:57:17 AM2/13/11
to

The truth hurts. Don't you know, bunkie, that everybody on Usenet is
a genius, belongs to Mensa and landed on the moon?

You claims are too outrageous to be believed.

marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 4:08:23 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 7:57 pm, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:41:10 -0800 (PST), marcuscp
>
>
>

"Claims?" Ever heard of Operation Cast Lead. How about Shock And Awe.
And stop dribbling over your keyboard.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:06:53 AM2/13/11
to


I think you have your facts confused. Israel unilaterally pulled out
of Gaza years ago. Prior to Operation Cast Lead, the Arabs of Gaza
fired thousands (yes, thousands) of rockets into Israeli civilian
areas over the course of more than a year. IMO Israel showed
tremendous restraint and patience, and was well within its rights to
cause much more destruction than that caused by Operation Cast Lead.
No other country in the world, unless it was defenseless, would have
tolerated a barrage of rockets over the course of a year.

That being said, yes, of course I am sympathetic to Arab civilians,
especially very elderly people or young children. And I certainly
don't like to see homes or other civilian buildings damaged. But if
the Arabs choose to use a mosque as a bomb factory or a school as a
military training arena, then IMO it is an appropriate military
target. The Arabs can't have it both ways.

The answer is simple: if the Gazans don't want Israel to bomb Gaza,
don't bomb Israel.

The Gazans were given their chance to live peacefully with Israel.
Instead they elected Hamas as their government, a terrorist
organization which openly declares its intent is to destroy Israel and
which hates Jews.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:11:30 AM2/13/11
to
> I think you are a liar.-

I know you killfiled me . . . . but I'm wondering if you misread all
this when you said marcuscp is a liar. I'm wondering of some of the
statements made by ME (Fatty) you accidentally attributed to marcus
from downunder.

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:12:10 AM2/13/11
to
> worst.reply,ever.-

I am wondering if Mack saw my words and thought you said them . . . .
there may be some confusion.

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:17:06 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 12, 11:56 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Fattuchus" <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:128db284-76a9-4ad6...@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Are you familiar with the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood?  This is
> > the organization that assassinated Sadat because he made peace with
> > Israel.  Could their goals, methods and intentions be any clearer?
> > The Muslim Brotherhood has said openly their goal is to destroy
> > Israel.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anwar_El_Sadat
>
> Funny, no mention at all of the Muslim Brotherhood in this article.
>
>
>
> > Do you really think that the Muslim Brotherhood will have no role in
> > the new government?  We've seen several times what happens when these
> > Muslim fundamentalist organizations are involved in governments (i.e.
> > Hizbollah, Hamas and Iran.)
>
> Not all Muslim fundamental organizations are the same.  The Brotherhood is
> vehemently opposed to Al Queda.

I am sure the Black Panthers and a white supremist group would both
be vehemently opposed to each other. So? Does that really make you
feel warm and fuzzy about either one of them?

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:21:04 AM2/13/11
to

The Muslim Brotherhood is the founding organization for HAMAS. HAMAS
mentions them with honor in their charter.
In addition the main make up of the Muslim Brotherhood are 3 unions in
Egypt--the doctors, lawyers and pharmacists. Imagine the influence
they can have with there patients and clients, and also, if the union
of lawyers is involved then, once they get into Parliament imagine
what they can do with all the laws of the land (in Egypt)

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:25:52 AM2/13/11
to
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The link above that you posted is interesting since a country
that clearly is in the shape of Israel is portrayed in the symbol of
HAMAS. Gee, I wonder why that is? (sarcasm)

Fattuchus

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:26:21 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 1:16 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:


Here's a link about Hamas' attacks on Israel:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas-qassam.htm

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:29:29 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 1:58 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> BTW, RichL, one of the key leaders in the Egyptian movement is this
> fellow:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/30/iranian-nuclear-weapons-m...

>
> Elbaradei.  The fellow who said there was no evidence Iran is building
> a nuclear weapon.
>
> BTW, the government of Iran has applauded Mubarak's ouster.  Gee, I
> wonder why.  :-(

I believe it has to do with Shite vs Sunni influence in the region.
The headquarters of HAMAS is in Syria per your link earlier. HAMAS is
linked with the Muslim Brotherhood as we have mentioned.

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:33:01 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 3:57 am, Mack A. Damia <mybaconbu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:41:10 -0800 (PST), marcuscp
>
>
>
>
>
> You claims are too outrageous to be believed.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I could be wrong however I believe the way google is printing up
Fatts' posts and those from marcuscp is appearing in a confusing
way tending to blend them both together, so it may be influencing our
comprehension of them. Just a possibility.
I am not siding with marcuscp's views of course but just wanted to
point out the way this thread is going I think people are
misunderstanding each other.

marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 6:46:13 AM2/13/11
to
> >http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm-Hide quoted text -

>
> Here's a link about Hamas' attacks on Israel:
>
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas-qassam.htm

Operation Cast Lead was planned 6 months before the alleged broken
ceasefire:
Here's a useful analysis of that invasion:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11606
It begins:
"The aerial bombings and the ongoing ground invasion of Gaza by
Israeli ground forces must be analysed in a historical context.
Operation "Cast Lead" is a carefully planned undertaking, which is
part of a broader military-intelligence agenda first formulated by the
government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2001:

"Sources in the defense establishment said Defense Minister Ehud
Barak instructed the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for the
operation over six months ago, even as Israel was beginning to
negotiate a ceasefire agreement with Hamas."(Barak Ravid, Operation
"Cast Lead": Israeli Air Force strike followed months of planning,
Haaretz, December 27, 2008)

It was Israel which broke the truce on the day of the US presidential
elections, November 4:

"Israel used this distraction to break the ceasefire between
itself and Hamas by bombing the Gaza strip. Israel claimed this
violation of the ceasefire was to prevent Hamas from digging tunnels
into Israeli territory.

The very next day, Israel launched a terrorizing siege of Gaza,
cutting off food, fuel, medical supplies and other necessities in an
attempt to “subdue” the Palestinians while at the same time engaging
in armed incursions.

In response, Hamas and others in Gaza again resorted to firing
crude, homemade, and mainly inaccurate rockets into Israel. During
the past seven years, these rockets have been responsible for the
deaths of 17 Israelis. Over the same time span, Israeli Blitzkrieg
assaults have killed thousands of Palestinians, drawing worldwide
protest but falling on deaf ears at the UN." (Shamus Cooke, The
Massacre in Palestine and the Threat of a Wider War, Global Research,
December 2008)"

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:11:33 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 3:25 am, marcuscp <phelanmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then you should be able to empathise with the Palestinians, especially
> in the prison ghetto of Gaza who have been regularly subjected to
> indiscriminate slaughter and destruction of homes, schools, sewage
> plants etc and terrorised and humiliated daily by the Israelis. The
> Lebanese could relate to that as well. But still, bad as they are, the
> US's proxy middle east state can't hold a candle (or phosphorous
> flare) to you yanks when it comes to state terror.


You are aware that when the modern state of Israel was born, Egypt
was in control of Gaza not Israel, right?
Then,yes, for a few years Israel managed Gaza and they have pulled
out several years ago (in 2005 I believe) in return for a promise
of peace from the people in Gaza.
Gaza and its leadership broke their promise of peace by firing 8000
rockets into Israeli territory and also sending in other terrorist
attackers.

One more thing: ". In 1967, when Israel took over the administration
of the West Bank and Gaza, the average life-span of a Palestinian was
48 years and infant mortality approached 100 per 1000 live births.
Access to clean drinking water was limited and illiteracy was rampant.
Today, despite the hardships caused by the on-going conflict,
Palestinians live to 72 years on average, infant mortality has dropped
to 23 per 1000, most residents of Gaza and the West Bank have clean
drinking water and literacy is nearly universal among those born after
1967. To equate such documented facts with genocide is neither
credible nor logical. "

The above statement is from an article written several years ago
at www.camera.org. EGYPT administered Gaza until 1967. When Israel
took over that job, due to Israeli investment in public works the
infant mortality rate dropped from 100 per 1000 live births to 23
per 1000 and the life expectancy jumped.

Here is an article in 2005 discussing when Sharon made the decision
for Israel to pull out of Gaza


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-14-israel-gaza-questions_x.htm

You also are aware(?) that the symbol for HAMAS has the ENTIRE
state of Israel portrayed in their symbol. Now why do you think that
is? It is because to HAMAS all of Israel "belongs" to them and they
will not be happy with just having the land in Gaza or even Judea and
Samaria. They want it all. That is why their promise of peace in 2005
was just a lie.

Mohammad used similar tactics. Mohammad said "war is deceit". It is
one of the Hadiths. He would promise peace to his enemies, a truce
for several years, and he used that time to regroup and refinance his
warriors and his weapons then attack again and again.. HAMAS just
follows what Mohammad did. It is that basic. Lying, as long as it
promotes the cause of Allah is OK you know. It is in the hadiths.

The leadership of the people in Gaza really do not want peace with
Israel its neighbor. They want submission/destruction of the modern
state of Israel. Just read their charter you will see.
The people of Gaza are being sacrificed by their own leadership and
by a purist interpretation of their faith. Your claim that Israel
is 'at fault' is very short sighted and just plain wrong.

By the way I hope you made it through those nasty floods in your
country and that nasty cyclone.


topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:13:40 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 12:55 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> The Muslim Brotherhood supports Hamas.


The Muslim Brotherhood is honored by HAMAS in their charter. HAMAS
is recognized as a terrorist organization by the US government.


marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:27:19 AM2/13/11
to

Wow. Game over. I can't compete with this sort of intellect.
"Hey ma! Look at that pointy-hairded little girl!"

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:28:41 AM2/13/11
to
> > >http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm-Hidequoted text -
> December 2008)"- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And all this from a website that has the subtitle "center for
research on globilzation" ha ha. Yea a really objective source.
(sarcasm)

Here is another article from the same website---I guess Obama is too
right wing for the author. Oh yes --the author of your link and the
link below are the same.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23113

Here is another article from your chosen site--Obama is too right wing
for the site to stomach

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13716

Here is a book written by the author you have chosen to
cite....Michel Chossudovsky


http://www.globalresearch.ca/globaloutlook/truth911.html


I will let people judge for themselves how objective this author
really is and what his political bias might be.


topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 7:34:05 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 7:27 am, marcuscp <phelanmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I will say one thing: you have made me laugh out loud even though
this is a very serious subject! LOLOLOLOL

Thanks for making me laugh.
Now let me ask you a very serious question or two : what are your
views on a world wide caliphate? And do you feel the United
States is an evil force in the world?

marcuscp

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:17:58 AM2/13/11
to

Look, to be honest, there are multitudinous sources to corroborate
what Michel Chossudovsky writes with regard to the Gaza invasion, but
I ain't got the time or the inclination to delve into that stuff on a
beatles blog. What Chossudovsky says on other stuff I couldn't give a
shit.
But your two degrees of separation bizzo with the Muslim Brotherhood
and terrorism via Hamas, the democratically elected gov't of ALL
Palestinian territories (what's left of it) is what we call down here:
fucking stupid.
What are my views on a world wide caliphate? Yeah, every home
should have one. With Sharia curtains.
And do I feel the United States is an evil force in the world? No,
only its gov't, its armed forces, most of its media (not Colbert -
he's a GOD) and maybe half of its population. Anyway, Duck Dodgers is
my hero - he sure showed that martian a thing or too. In the words of
Porky Pig; Bbbbbbbb....big deal.

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:19:57 AM2/13/11
to
On Feb 13, 6:46 am, marcuscp <phelanmar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas.htm-Hidequoted text -
> December 2008)"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The article you mentioned above was written by an author who wrote
this book: SEE ARTICLE BELOW. I found this at the website you
chose to use at your post:

AMERICA'S "WAR ON TERRORISM"

by Michel Chossudovsky

ISBN 0-9737147-1-9 (2005)

387 pages.

Global Research Online Price: US$14.00 (Retail $19.95)

NEW: The Book is now available in pdf format at US $8.25 (scroll down
for details)


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In this new and expanded edition of Michel Chossudovsky's 2002 best
seller, the author blows away the smokescreen put up by the mainstream
media, that 9/11 was an attack on America by "Islamic terrorists".
Through meticulous research, the author uncovers a military-
intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the cover-up
and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration.

The expanded edition, which includes twelve new chapters focuses on
the use of 9/11 as a pretext for the invasion and illegal occupation
of Iraq, the militarisation of justice and law enforcement and the
repeal of democracy.

According to Chossudovsky, the "war on terrorism" is a complete
fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden,
outwitted the $40 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The
"war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final
march to the "New World Order", dominated by Wall Street and the U.S.
military-industrial complex.

September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without
borders. Washington's agenda consists in extending the frontiers of
the American Empire to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control,
while installing within America the institutions of the Homeland
Security State.

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So, marcuscp, do you agree with the facts of the summary of this
book? And do you therefore agree with the author's viewpoint?

If you want to read a very well researched book on 9/11 (and there
are many out there as you know) I suggest you read "102 Minutes".
Filled with so many facts , the authors did an amazing job. The book
however is very depressing.

topaz

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:25:05 AM2/13/11
to
> Porky Pig; Bbbbbbbb....big deal.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

now we all know where you stand. Since the USA and Australia are
allies what do you think of your own governement?

Mack A. Damia

unread,
Feb 13, 2011, 8:40:05 AM2/13/11