Denis Payton of the Dave Clark Five dies, 63
John Whelan
December 19, 2006
Reuters
LONDON - Denis Payton, from rock group The Dave Clark Five which toured the
United States in the 1960s and spearheaded the "great British invasion"
alongside the Beatles, has died after a long illness aged 63.
Friends and relatives said in a statement that Payton, who played the
saxophone, guitar and harmonica and sang backing vocals, died on Sunday.
"He had an amazing philosophy on life and will be greatly missed by me and
all who knew him," said Dave Clark, one of the group's founding members.
"Denis was extremely brave and not afraid of death."
The Dave Clark Five, which broke up in the 1970s, boasts record sales of
more than 100 million and claims to have spearheaded the "Great British
Invasion" of the United States that culminated in the Beatles' success
there.
A few weeks ago the band was nominated for induction to the 2007 American
Rock'n'Roll Hall Of Fame.
Their hits include "Glad All Over" and "Over and Over".
Payton is survived by Lindsay, his partner of 16 years, his two sons from
his first marriage and two stepsons.
Blackbird
John Whelan wrote:
> Their hits include "Glad All Over" and "Over and Over".
Man, we're losing the great ones a lot right now...
Sixties Gen
WHAT?!?
Whew, talk about revisionism.
The DC5 were a good band, had a great string of singles, and I liked
them a lot, but they didn't spearhead the British Invasion. The
Beatles spearheaded the invasion, and the DC5 had success because of
them.
Who writes this stuff for the papers?
terra
"Sixties Gen" <sixti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166485152.1...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> The DC5 were a good band, had a great string of singles, and I liked
> them a lot, but they didn't spearhead the British Invasion. The
> Beatles spearheaded the invasion, and the DC5 had success because of
> them.
>
> Who writes this stuff for the papers?
Young kids.
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Sixties Gen
Sid wrote:
> Dave Clark was the luckiest man in the world to hold a set of drum
> sticks.
Some say he was glad all over.
But only in bits and pieces.
Now, everybody knows.
Manfred Noland
White Shadow
wrote:
Sax players -- including such legends as Charlie Parker and Lester
Young -- always seem to die prematurely. According to an article I
read on the subject, they die young because they practice circular
breathing when they play their instrument. To produce a continuous
sound, they suck air in through the nose and blow it straight into the
instrument, causing dangerous stress to the neck and the brain.
Who was the last sax player you heard of who died of old age?
donz5
> Sax players -- including such legends as Charlie Parker and Lester
> Young -- always seem to die prematurely. According to an article I
> read on the subject, they die young because they practice circular
> breathing when they play their instrument. To produce a continuous
> sound, they suck air in through the nose and blow it straight into the
> instrument, causing dangerous stress to the neck and the brain.
Neither Parker nor Young died of neck and brain strain; they died of
stomachs and livers overwhelmed with lifelong histories of drug and
alcohol abuse.
White Shadow
Those may have been listed as contributing factors, but they were
never identified as the specific cause of death.
White Shadow
<closeupthe...@aol.com> wrote:
>White Shadow <wam...@maximus.com> wrote:
>
>> Who was the last sax player you heard of who died of old age?
>
>http://thedeadrockstarsclub.com/2006b.html
>
>Lazy Ade Monsbourgh, Johnny Singer, Moacir Santos, John Weinzweig,
>Jimmie Madden, Danny Flores, Paul Stroud, Claude Luter, Ed
>Summerlin, Stan Patton, Joe Lutcher, Al Stewart and Art Jackson, I
>guess. ;)
My question specifically referred to sax players that we've heard
of....not garage band losers who play once in a blue moon.
In any case, for you to throw out twelve names of complete unknowns
and then suggest that you know for a fact they all literally died of
old age is laughable.
Try again.
donz5
Neither were autopsied, as I recall. But there's no question or doubt
that their bodies succumbed to their drug and alcohol abuse rather than
to neck and brain stress.
Then there's King Curtis, who died from an unexpected bodily invasion
of lead.
White Shadow
>White Shadow wrote:
>> On 19 Dec 2006 12:08:17 -0800, "donz5" <do...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >White Shadow wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sax players -- including such legends as Charlie Parker and Lester
>> >> Young -- always seem to die prematurely. According to an article I
>> >> read on the subject, they die young because they practice circular
>> >> breathing when they play their instrument. To produce a continuous
>> >> sound, they suck air in through the nose and blow it straight into the
>> >> instrument, causing dangerous stress to the neck and the brain.
>> >
>> >
>> >Neither Parker nor Young died of neck and brain strain; they died of
>> >stomachs and livers overwhelmed with lifelong histories of drug and
>> >alcohol abuse.
>>
>> Those may have been listed as contributing factors, but they were
>> never identified as the specific cause of death.
>
>Neither were autopsied, as I recall. But there's no question or doubt
>that their bodies succumbed to their drug and alcohol abuse rather than
>to neck and brain stress.
Ummm....if they were never autopsied, how can there possibly be "no
question or doubt" that they died from drug and alcohol abuse? Your
statement makes no sense.
>Then there's King Curtis, who died from an unexpected bodily invasion
>of lead.
<SIGH> Wrong again. King Curtis was stabbed to death...with a steel
blade, not one made of lead, for God's sake.
When was the last time anyone here heard of a sax player being stabbed
to death with a blade made of lead?
donz5
Try these, then:
Gerry Mulligan: born April 6, 1927; died from complications of knee
surgery January 1996. Age: 3 months shy of 69
Stan Getz: born February 2, 1927; died of liver cancer June 6, 1991.
Age: 64
Phil Woods: born November 2, 1931: still alive today at 75.
Lee Konitz: born October 12, 1927: still alive today at 79.
donz5
Try these, then:
White Shadow
Well, dying at age 69 and age 64 does NOT constitute dying of old age.
You still haven't named a sax player who actually died of old age.
donz5
> On 19 Dec 2006 14:23:35 -0800, "donz5" <do...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >White Shadow wrote:
> >> On 19 Dec 2006 12:08:17 -0800, "donz5" <do...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >White Shadow wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Sax players -- including such legends as Charlie Parker and Lester
> >> >> Young -- always seem to die prematurely. According to an article I
> >> >> read on the subject, they die young because they practice circular
> >> >> breathing when they play their instrument. To produce a continuous
> >> >> sound, they suck air in through the nose and blow it straight into the
> >> >> instrument, causing dangerous stress to the neck and the brain.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Neither Parker nor Young died of neck and brain strain; they died of
> >> >stomachs and livers overwhelmed with lifelong histories of drug and
> >> >alcohol abuse.
> >>
> >> Those may have been listed as contributing factors, but they were
> >> never identified as the specific cause of death.
> >
> >Neither were autopsied, as I recall. But there's no question or doubt
> >that their bodies succumbed to their drug and alcohol abuse rather than
> >to neck and brain stress.
>
> Ummm....if they were never autopsied, how can there possibly be "no
> question or doubt" that they died from drug and alcohol abuse? Your
> statement makes no sense.
A little research should help. I'll start:
Charlie Parker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_parker
"Though the official cause of death was (lobar) pneumonia and a
bleeding ulcer, his death was hastened by his drug and alcohol abuse.
The 34-year-old Parker was so haggard that the coroner mistakenly
estimated Parker's age to be between 50 and 60."
Lester Young:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Young
"However, beginning around 1951, Young's level of play began to decline
more precipitously, as he began to drink more and more heavily.
"...by the late 1950s, his self-destructive habits had finally taken
their toll on him. He was eating significantly less, drinking
increasingly heavily, and suffering from liver disease and
malnutrition.
...
"Lester Young made his final studio recordings and live performances in
Paris in March 1959, at the tail end of an abbreviated European tour
during which he ate next to nothing and virtually drank himself to
death."
Nothing -- nada -- zero -- zilch -- on brain and neck stress.
>
> >Then there's King Curtis, who died from an unexpected bodily invasion
> >of lead.
>
> <SIGH> Wrong again. King Curtis was stabbed to death...with a steel
> blade, not one made of lead, for God's sake.
You're correct; chalk it up to a sloppy memory on my part. My error.
donz5
You're nitpicking at what constitutes "old age." And you're ignoring
the still-alive Phil Woods, at 75, and Lee Konitz, at 79.
donz5
Also, neither Mulligan nor Getz died of "brain or neck stress"; they
died of "complications of knee surgery" and "liver cancer."
White Shadow
I guess I can only quote your own statement on the subject, which you
can't now run away from. You said, and I quote, "they died of
stomachs and livers overwhelmed with lifelong histories of drug and
alcohol abuse." I corrected you by pointing out that those were only
contributing factors, which you now apparently won't admit.
Show me an authoritative quote that says their deaths were both
specifically due to "stomachs and livers overwhelmed with lifelong
histories of drug and alcohol abuse."
And I never said they specifically died from brain and neck stress. I
merely referred to an article written by someone much more
knowledgeable than yourself. See link below:
I subscribe to that publication and had access to the entire article,
which also refers to stress on certain portions of the brain near the
back of the head caused by circular breathing.
White Shadow
wrote:
Here is the full article linked below:
donz5
Seems I just did in my Wiki references. Whether or not you accept
what's common knowledge is beyond my control or interest.
>
> And I never said they specifically died from brain and neck stress. I
> merely referred to an article written by someone much more
> knowledgeable than yourself. See link below:
Let's throw your own initial quote back atcha:
"According to an article I
read on the subject, they die young because they practice circular
breathing when they play their instrument."
As has been documented, none of the saxophonists I cited (Parker,
Young, Mulligan, Getz), died young "because they practice circular
breathing." They died young (Parker and Young) due to complications
caused by lifelong drug and alcohol abuse (is that better?) and not so
young (Mulligan and Getz) due to complications from knee surgery and
liver cancer.
None of them "died young because they practice circular breathing."
Nor do we know whether any of these players actually _did_ practice
circular breathing.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ybphht
>
> I subscribe to that publication and had access to the entire article,
> which also refers to stress on certain portions of the brain near the
> back of the head caused by circular breathing.
Thanks for the other link that offered the full article. As the article
readily admits, all it has is a few "anecdotal" circumstances, but
nothing resembling what it claims: "sax players die young because they
practise circular breathing."
I'm not interested in a confrontational fight with you. You raised an
interesting hypothesis; it's been refuted with real-life examples. What
do we do now?
John Whelan
news:1166570699....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
donz5: If White Shadow did some follow-up research regarding Denis
Payton, he would soon realize that the talented sax player died of cancer
and not as a result of circular breathing when he played his instrument over
the years:
Excerpt from the Associated Press report:
"Denis Payton, sax player in Dave Clark Five, dies of cancer at 63
"LONDON: Denis Payton, the sax player in the Dave Clark Five, has died after
a long struggle with cancer, Clark's office said Monday. He was 63.
"Payton died Sunday in Bournemouth in southern England, said John Roberts of
Clark's office."
Link to full article:
<
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/18/europe/EU_GEN_Britain_Obit_Payton.php >
terra
sax players were indeed of older ages. Anything past 65 will suffice. And
even then, 60 isn't far from it.
"John Whelan" <an...@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:em9tlp$c64$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
--
White Shadow
wrote:
>And he needs to define 'old age'. I guarantee that most of the mentioned
>sax players were indeed of older ages. Anything past 65 will suffice. And
>even then, 60 isn't far from it.
>
Just want to make sure I understand this. You're saying someone 66
years old is "old" and qualifies for dying of old age, and someone age
60 is very nearly "old age"?
donz5
> And he needs to define 'old age'. I guarantee that most of the mentioned
> sax players were indeed of older ages. Anything past 65 will suffice. And
> even then, 60 isn't far from it.
Hey! Stop forcing us to look in the mirror. :)
Also, medically, I don't think anyone actually dies of "old age." They
die of complications due to various organ failures, some of which can
be attributed to a deteriorating resistance to infection that occurs in
the elderly.
But I don't believe that any death certificate credits "old age" for
one's cause of death.
The premise that started all this, an article claiming that "sax
players die young because they practise circular breathing," appears
lacking in substantive evidence. And citing Parker and Young within
that initial premise lacks _any_ basis of fact. Indeed, the known facts
of their respective demises document a complete absense of anything
related to circular breathing, assuming they even practiced it in the
first place.
White Shadow
Clearly, you've never listened to recordings of Parker, Young, and
Coltrane. If you had, you'd already know whether they practiced
circular breathing or not.
And as someone who has listened to their music for years, they did
indeed practice circular breathing.
And the fact is, they all died young.
donz5
> On 19 Dec 2006 17:22:24 -0800, "donz5" <do...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >terra wrote:
> >> And he needs to define 'old age'. I guarantee that most of the mentioned
> >> sax players were indeed of older ages. Anything past 65 will suffice. And
> >> even then, 60 isn't far from it.
> >
> >Hey! Stop forcing us to look in the mirror. :)
> >
> >Also, medically, I don't think anyone actually dies of "old age." They
> >die of complications due to various organ failures, some of which can
> >be attributed to a deteriorating resistance to infection that occurs in
> >the elderly.
> >
> >But I don't believe that any death certificate credits "old age" for
> >one's cause of death.
> >
> >The premise that started all this, an article claiming that "sax
> >players die young because they practise circular breathing," appears
> >lacking in substantive evidence. And citing Parker and Young within
> >that initial premise lacks _any_ basis of fact. Indeed, the known facts
> >of their respective demises document a complete absense of anything
> >related to circular breathing, assuming they even practiced it in the
> >first place.
>
> Clearly, you've never listened to recordings of Parker, Young, and
> Coltrane. If you had, you'd already know whether they practiced
> circular breathing or not.
First, who claimed that Coltrane did or didn't? A new player
introduced out of left field.
And second, clearly you couldn't be more mistaken about what I listen
to. Try to refrain from making this personal.
>
> And as someone who has listened to their music for years, they did
> indeed practice circular breathing.
In your opinion. When I hear short phrases separated by breath, it
gives me pause to buy into your claim.
>
> And the fact is, they all died young.
But not from circular breathing, which was the premise of the article
you cited.
Do Phil Woods and Lee Konitz practice circular breathing? Players in
their mid-to late-70s?
Frank from Deeetroit
"Sixties Gen" <sixti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166496302.9...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
Because.
Frank from Deeetroit
"White Shadow" <wam...@maximus.com> wrote in message
news:pl3go21hmqoofiju3...@4ax.com...
The breathing method you describe is the same method used by indigenous
Austrailians to play a didgeridoo.
abe slaney
> White Shadow wrote:
>>And as someone who has listened to their music for years, they did
>>indeed practice circular breathing.
>
>
> In your opinion. When I hear short phrases separated by breath, it
> gives me pause to buy into your claim.
>
>
>>And the fact is, they all died young.
>
>
> But not from circular breathing, which was the premise of the article
> you cited.
>
> Do Phil Woods and Lee Konitz practice circular breathing? Players in
> their mid-to late-70s?
White Shadow conveniently provided a link to a page of responses to the
article which range from politely interested to skeptical to scornful:
Anyway, if you're a sax player and you're worried, switch to bagpipes.
No circular breathing - that's what the bag is for!
donz5
> donz5 wrote:
> > White Shadow wrote:
>
> >>And as someone who has listened to their music for years, they did
> >>indeed practice circular breathing.
> >
> >
> > In your opinion. When I hear short phrases separated by breath, it
> > gives me pause to buy into your claim.
> >
> >
> >>And the fact is, they all died young.
> >
> >
> > But not from circular breathing, which was the premise of the article
> > you cited.
> >
> > Do Phil Woods and Lee Konitz practice circular breathing? Players in
> > their mid-to late-70s?
>
> White Shadow conveniently provided a link to a page of responses to the
> article which range from politely interested to skeptical to scornful:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/t72r3
One near the end should put this matter to rest. One of the co-authors
acknowledged in a response to a letter sent to him that "the hypothesis
of circular breathing was more 'tongue in cheek..."
Which makes this discussion entirely moot.