Fred Seaman
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
Fred Seaman would like everyone to know that if anyone was wearing a wire
during his interview with Mr. Sheff it was Mr. Sheff. Anyone who knows Fred
would realize how ridiculous the idea of him wearing a wire to an interview
was and is. Furthermore, the supposed Fred Seaman diary referred to by Mr.
Sheff was bogus, fabricated for the sole purpose of discrediting Fred.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tom
> Anyone who knows Fred
>would realize how ridiculous the idea of him wearing a wire to an interview
>was and is.
Why? Does he usually walk around naked so that a wire would be obvious?
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
known Fred well would realize that the notion of doing a simple interview
wired would never occur to him, and even if it did, it would be way too much
trouble. Do you get the point now?
Tom
>> > Anyone who knows Fred
>> >would realize how ridiculous the idea of him wearing a wire to an
interview
>> >was and is.
>> Why? Does he usually walk around naked so that a wire would be obvious?
>> Are you misunderstanding what I said on purpose?
Well, yes. It's called a joke.
> The fact is, anyone who has
>
>known Fred well would realize that the notion of doing a simple interview
>wired would never occur to him,
I'd think recording an interview would be a good way to insure accuracy,
which is why the bit about Scheff wearing a wire confused me. Shouldn't a
good journalist record interviews?
Edward S. Chen
>
>> The fact is, anyone who has
>>known Fred well would realize that the notion of doing a simple interview
>>wired would never occur to him,
>
>I'd think recording an interview would be a good way to insure accuracy,
>which is why the bit about Scheff wearing a wire confused me. Shouldn't a
>good journalist record interviews?
The point is context. According to Mr. Sheff, he asked Seaman for an
interview several times during the preparation of "Betrayal." Seaman
repeatedly refused, then unexpectedly agreed with the condition the interview
not be recorded. Then (again, according to Sheff) when he finally showed
up for the interview, Seaman was "wired." Odd, at the very least.
<ESC>
--
Like ice in a drink, invisible ink, or dreams in the cold light of day.
The children of rock 'n roll never grow old, they just fade away.
-- R. Nasty / D. McQuickly, 1967 (N. Innes, 1976)
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
record early in 1983 (my criminal case was still open and my lawyers advised
me against talking to Sheff, who was known to be more than a little
sympathetic to Yoko) when he contacted me about his article. I liked Sheff,
and I assumed he was interested in writing an honest, more or less objective
article. When he and his wife, Victoria, came over to my apartment in
Brooklyn Heights, Sheff was wearing a concealed microcassette recorder (a
fact that I became aware of when I heard a loud click as the device turned
itself off). Sheff apologized and claimed that his editor at PLAYBOY MAGAZINE
had asked him to tape our conversation. In fact, he was trying to gather
information for Yoko. Perhaps not surprisingly, Sheff's article turned out to
be a venomous hatchet job. His "research" consisted of talking to Yoko, Sam
Havadtoy, Elliot Mintz, Bob Rosen, and others on Yoko's payroll. We're not
talking about objective journalism here. Sheff's article wasn't journalism at
all. It was a deceptive work of fiction masquerading as journalism. Not
content to merely publish lies about me that he was fed by Yoko's camp
(according to the article I was the mastermind of a criminal conspiracy,
code-named "Project Walrus"; methinks Elliot Mintz thunk that one up...)
Sheff even quotes me as saying: "The Black Widow shall be destroyed." It
never happened. I can understand why Sheff so readily lent himself to
character assassination. He owed Yoko big-time. She had given him permission
to publish a book based on his interviews with John, and he needed her
permission to put them out as an LP (the CD era was just around the corner).
While I was still at Studio One in 1981, Sheff was a regular caller, always
brown-nosing the BW. He also wanted to write Yoko's authorized biography, and
even had a chapter outline that he sent in. Later I also learned that Yoko
had paid for Sheff and his then-wife, Victoria's (she shares the byline on
the infamous article, even though she took no part in the "research" and had
no part in the writing, and she eventally divorced Sheff partly because she
was so fed up with his sycophantic pursuit of Y.O. ) New York hotel
accommodations as well as daily expenses during their "research".
Edward S. Chen
monetary involvement with the Lennons.
>information for Yoko. Perhaps not surprisingly, Sheff's article turned out to
>be a venomous hatchet job. His "research" consisted of talking to Yoko, Sam
>Havadtoy, Elliot Mintz, Bob Rosen, and others on Yoko's payroll.
"Bob Rosen?" Last reported was that Mr. Rosen was doing as Mr. Seaman did,
namely, skirting the law and writing a book centering on paraphrasing
excerpts of the stolen Lennon diaries. It should be noted that Rosen did
reveal the details of "Project Walrus" in exchange for immunity, but that's
hardly "being on the payroll."
>all. It was a deceptive work of fiction masquerading as journalism. Not
>content to merely publish lies about me that he was fed by Yoko's camp
Interesting that Mr. Seaman never attempted to sue "Playboy" magazine.
It is *much* easier for an individual to prove libel - especially an
individual who is not particularly a public figure.
>Sheff even quotes me as saying: "The Black Widow shall be destroyed." It
>never happened.
An interesting quote, especially since one of the late Albert Goldman's
unfinished works was a book to be co-written with Mr. Seaman entitled
"Black Widow."
>character assassination. He owed Yoko big-time. She had given him permission
>to publish a book based on his interviews with John, and he needed her
>permission to put them out as an LP (the CD era was just around the corner).
Exactly what would that LP be? The vast majority of the original Sheff
interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
>brown-nosing the BW. He also wanted to write Yoko's authorized biography, and
>even had a chapter outline that he sent in.
A claim that Mr. Sheff vehemently denies.
>no part in the writing, and she eventally divorced Sheff partly because she
>was so fed up with his sycophantic pursuit of Y.O. ) New York hotel
>accommodations as well as daily expenses during their "research".
Another claim that Mr. Sheff vehemently denies, and he has the receipts from
"Playboy." Glad to see the "Parker Meridian" has been excised from your
claim :-)
JSeraf7064
-JS
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
elsa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <766ql4$ji0$1...@joe.rice.edu>,
> ec...@kennel.ruf.rice.edu (Edward S. Chen) wrote:
> > In article <765mpp$3qe$1...@remarQ.com>, Tom <Blac...@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The fact is, anyone who has
> > >>known Fred well would realize that the notion of doing a simple interview
> > >>wired would never occur to him,
> > >
> > >I'd think recording an interview would be a good way to insure accuracy,
> > >which is why the bit about Scheff wearing a wire confused me. Shouldn't a
> > >good journalist record interviews?
> >
> > The point is context. According to Mr. Sheff, he asked Seaman for an
> > interview several times during the preparation of "Betrayal." Seaman
> > repeatedly refused, then unexpectedly agreed with the condition the
interview
> > not be recorded. Then (again, according to Sheff) when he finally showed
> > up for the interview, Seaman was "wired." Odd, at the very least.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Like ice in a drink, invisible ink, or dreams in the cold light of day.
> > The children of rock 'n roll never grow old, they just fade away.
> > -- R. Nasty / D. McQuickly, 1967 (N. Innes, 1976)
> >
>
> record early in 1983 (my criminal case was still open and my lawyers
advised
> me against talking to Sheff, who was known to be more than a little
> sympathetic to Yoko) when he contacted me about his article. I liked Sheff,
> and I assumed he was interested in writing an honest, more or less objective
> article. When he and his wife, Victoria, came over to my apartment in
> Brooklyn Heights, Sheff was wearing a concealed microcassette recorder (a
> fact that I became aware of when I heard a loud click as the device turned
> itself off). Sheff apologized and claimed that his editor at PLAYBOY MAGAZINE
> had asked him to tape our conversation. In fact, he was trying to gather
> be a venomous hatchet job. His "research" consisted of talking to Yoko, Sam
> talking about objective journalism here. Sheff's article wasn't journalism at
> content to merely publish lies about me that he was fed by Yoko's camp
> code-named "Project Walrus"; methinks Elliot Mintz thunk that one up...)
> to publish a book based on his interviews with John, and he needed her
> permission to put them out as an LP (the CD era was just around the corner).
> had paid for Sheff and his then-wife, Victoria's (she shares the byline on
> the infamous article, even though she took no part in the "research" and had
> was so fed up with his sycophantic pursuit of Y.O. ) New York hotel
> accommodations as well as daily expenses during their "research".
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
L.N.
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
ones written on December 28. were written by Fred Seaman. I am a close
friend. Fred is not on line yet but I keep him posted as to the contents of
RMB. Sunday the 28th was the first time he has actually posted anything
himself. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them. You will be
answered. Thanks to those of you who are fair minded and do not believe all
of the garbage you read about Fred. To coin one of my favorite phrases; The
truth is out there.
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
jsera...@aol.com (JSeraf7064) wrote:
> Are you really Fred Seaman?
>
> -JS
them on the 28th. He would have written alot sooner but I was having trouble
figuring out how to post. A computer wizard I am not.
John M. Calabro
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
elsa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> L.N.
No, LNB, a great pizza place in Brooklyn.
John Calabro
--
***************************************************
* Ring In 1999 with me - in SEVEN time zones! *
* LIVE on the internet 7PM EST 12/31/98 *
* http://rfny.simplenet.com - Radio Free New York *
***************************************************
Amaranth56
>It is *much* easier for an individual to prove libel - especially an
>individual who is not particularly a public figure.
Why didn't Yoko sue Goldman -- or Seaman or Pang for that matter? By 1984,
wasn't Fred Seaman a public figure? Not a celebrity, to be sure. But
certainly known to Beatle fans.
>>.....He owed Yoko big-time. She had given him permission
>>to publish a book based on his interviews with John, and he needed her
>>permission to put them out as an LP (the CD era was just around the corner).
>
>Exactly what would that LP be? The vast majority of the original Sheff
>interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
>come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
A set of vinyls of the Playboy interviews does, or did, exist. Someone on AOL
has them. He said that there's more on the vinyls than was published in
Playboy, so it must be more than mere excerpts. I have no other information.
Edward S. Chen
Amaranth56 <amara...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>Interesting that Mr. Seaman never attempted to sue "Playboy" magazine.
>>It is *much* easier for an individual to prove libel - especially an
>>individual who is not particularly a public figure.
>
>Why didn't Yoko sue Goldman -- or Seaman or Pang for that matter? By 1984,
>wasn't Fred Seaman a public figure? Not a celebrity, to be sure. But
>certainly known to Beatle fans.
Irrelevant. David Peel, Splinter, and Louise Harrison are "certainly
known to Beatle fans," but clearly private individuals. Given the way
libel laws are in the US, it is much easier for a non-celebrity to win
such cases.
>>Exactly what would that LP be? The vast majority of the original Sheff
>>interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
>>come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
>
>A set of vinyls of the Playboy interviews does, or did, exist. Someone on AOL
>has them. He said that there's more on the vinyls than was published in
>Playboy, so it must be more than mere excerpts. I have no other information.
Heresay. Assuming such a release did exist, it was *very* limited, and
unauthorized. "Playboy" knows of no such release, and (as the copyright
holder), they would've had to have been consulted on any official LP.
<ESC>
--
Many times I've been alone...and many times I've cried.
-- J. Lennon / P. McCartney, 1969
---------------:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::----------------
Edward S. Chen
>> namely, skirting the law and writing a book centering on paraphrasing
>> excerpts of the stolen Lennon diaries. It should be noted that Rosen did
>> reveal the details of "Project Walrus" in exchange for immunity, but that's
>> hardly "being on the payroll."
>> The book written by Fred Seaman was written based on the diaries of Fred
>Seaman, not John Lennon.
Wasn't Mr. Seaman just going on about how he kept no diaries?
> Bob Rosen is a psycho who befriended Fred who was in
>pretty bad shape after John's death.
Were they, or were they not college roommates?
>Bob offered to make copies of John's diaries so that Fred could take them
>to Julian. Instead he kept them and started telling Fred about this book
>idea.
Perhaps I am simply dense, but this doesn't make any sense. "Making copies"
is not a process that requires a third person. Further, during the
period the diaries were ostensibly in Mr. Seaman's posession, he had
interaction with Julian on at least two occasions. Julian has acknowledged
receipt of guitars and then-unpublished songs, but has denied being told
anything about the Lennon diaries.
>Fred realized he was dealing with a
>nut and proceeded to play along, hoping to get a chance to get the diaries
>back. It is interesting to note that most of the people that came into contact
>with Bob back then did'nt trust him. Fred unfortunately tends to be a bit too
>trusting at times and has befriended people who have taken advantage of him.
>Have you ever seen a picture of Rose? Fred's opinion of this supposed Rosen
>project is that it will never happen.
I have no opinion on whether the Rosen project will "come off."
Amaranth56
>>>interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
>>>come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
>>
>>A set of vinyls of the Playboy interviews does, or did, exist. Someone on
>AOL
>>has them. He said that there's more on the vinyls than was published in
>>Playboy, so it must be more than mere excerpts. I have no other
>information.
>
>Heresay. Assuming such a release did exist, it was *very* limited, and
>unauthorized. "Playboy" knows of no such release, and (as the copyright
>holder), they would've had to have been consulted on any official LP.
This person wouldn't lie. It may have been a bootleg -- I don't know. But
this person wouldn't make up anything like that.
Tom
>>Heresay. Assuming such a release did exist, it was *very* limited, and
>>unauthorized. "Playboy" knows of no such release, and (as the copyright
>>holder), they would've had to have been consulted on any official LP.
>
>This person wouldn't lie. It may have been a bootleg -- I don't know. But
>this person wouldn't make up anything like that.
There is an album of interviews from the Double Fantasy period called "Heart
Beat An Unfinished Dialogue"
Tom
>
oops
ccs
a radio interview John and Yoko gave on the day of John's death. I also have a
two record bootleg with interview exerpts from that time. It may be from the
Playboy interview. I'll check when I get home. Anyway, there was no legitimate
release of any of the Playboy interviews in audio form.
Barb
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
> Amaranth56 <amara...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Interesting that Mr. Seaman never attempted to sue "Playboy" magazine.
> >>It is *much* easier for an individual to prove libel - especially an
> >>individual who is not particularly a public figure.
>
In fact, I did look into suing PLAYBOY. I was advised that Sheff's article
did meet the legal test for libel: It was false, in reckless disregard of the
truth (Sheff knowingly wrote things in the article that he new to be false),
and malicious (as evidenced by Sheff's fabricated quotes; Sheff's aticle was
clearly pro-Yoko & anti-Fred -- I'm sure that even my detractors will concede
this...) I was also made aware of a few sobering facts surrounding any libel
action in this case. First of all, libel lawyers don't work on a contingency
fee basis. Libel cases against major media organizations are expensive to
litigate, and even if a plaintiff is victorious, there are no guarantees of a
substantial monetary award for damages. I could not find any lawyer willing
to take on my case for anything less than a $5O,OOO initial retainer (and
having already spent in excess of $3O,OOO on my criminal case, my legal funds
were depleted). And that was just to get started. If the case went to trial
and dragged on for a year or longer (as is customary in libels cases)the cost
could go up to six figures. If someone's reputation is trashed in a libelous
article, a judge or jury ultimately must decide on punitive and/or
compensatory damages. In my case, having pled guilty to grand larceny,
PLAYBOY'S lawyers would no doubt argue that my reputation wasn't worth
anything. Anyway, it was no accident that the Sheff article (which was
"researched" in 1982 & written in 83) wasn't published until 1984. PLAYBOY
knew well that Sheff's article was totally one-sided, pro-Yoko propaganda and
that it could leave the publication vulnerable to lawsuits. They had to wait
for me to plead guilty and be sentenced before they dared to publish this
travesty of journalism. -FRED SEAMAN
> >Why didn't Yoko sue Goldman -- or Seaman or Pang for that matter? By 1984,
> >wasn't Fred Seaman a public figure? Not a celebrity, to be sure. But
> >certainly known to Beatle fans.
Yoko didn't sue Albert Goldman, May Pang, or moi, because she (better than
anybody) knew perfectly well that our books are true. Not even Yoko is dumb
enough to embark on a lawsuit that she knows she can't win.
-FS
>
> Irrelevant. David Peel, Splinter, and Louise Harrison are "certainly
> known to Beatle fans," but clearly private individuals. Given the way
> libel laws are in the US, it is much easier for a non-celebrity to win
> such cases.
>
> >>Exactly what would that LP be? The vast majority of the original Sheff
> >>interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
> >>come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
> >
> >A set of vinyls of the Playboy interviews does, or did, exist. Someone on
AOL
> >has them. He said that there's more on the vinyls than was published in
> >Playboy, so it must be more than mere excerpts. I have no other information.
>
> Heresay. Assuming such a release did exist, it was *very* limited, and
> unauthorized. "Playboy" knows of no such release, and (as the copyright
> holder), they would've had to have been consulted on any official LP.
>
> <ESC>
>
In the fall of 198O, during the DF recording sessions, someone showed me a
McCartney interview LP (a 3-Lp set of an interview conducted by Paul
Gambaccini, I Think). I passed the LPs on to John. This was around the time
that Sheff was interviewing Lennon, and he (Sheff) asked me if I thought that
John might consent to having his interview released on LP. I told him I saw
no reason not to release the interview on LP, and suggested that he should
secure Yoko's approval. Sheff eventually had a series of talk with Yoko
regarding this issue. After John's death, Sheff intensified his efforts to
try release the interview on LP (he was hoping to have it out on LP at the
same time as his book, THE PLAYBOY INTERVIEWS). But Yoko was in no hurry to
grant Sheff permission. She instructed me to offer Sheff vague words of
encouragement, i.e. to "string him along." It was clear to me tha she held
back her approval in order to have leverage over Sheff. I suspect that she
gave him to understand that he would be allowed to release his LP in exchange
for doing a hatchet job on me. I doubt that she kept her promise, and I don't
know if Sheff's interview with Lennon was ever "officially" released.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if Sheff sold it to bootleggers. -FS
> --
> Many times I've been alone...and many times I've cried.
> -- J. Lennon / P. McCartney, 1969
>
> ---------------:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::----------------
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Jim Richard
<elsa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> In fact, I did look into suing PLAYBOY. I was advised that Sheff's article
>did meet the legal test for libel: It was false, in reckless disregard of the
>truth (Sheff knowingly wrote things in the article that he new to be false),
>and malicious (as evidenced by Sheff's fabricated quotes; Sheff's aticle was
>clearly pro-Yoko & anti-Fred -- I'm sure that even my detractors will concede
>this...)
Since Fred Seaman has started posting to r.m.b., I thought people would
be interested in comparing David Sheff's description of the missing Lennon
diaries with Seaman's. Here are summaries of the two accounts. Following
the summaries are a few questions that I hope Fred will answer.
-----
Here is the summary of "The Betrayal of John Lennon", published in the March
1984 Playboy:
Right after Lennon's death, Seaman drew up a contract with Bob Rosen.
For the next year, Fred stole documents from the Dakota apartments and
delivered them to Rosen each Friday. Seaman stole money from Lenono
petty-cash to pay Rosen. In May 1981, Seaman gave Julian Lennon a
copy of the cassette of John's final songs recorded in Bermuda. Seaman's
journal suggests that he intended to try to convince Julian that he, rather
than Yoko, was the rightful guardian of his father's diaries. Sheff words
this as "his aim is to draw Julian into the plan."
In August 1981, Rick Dufay, a guitarist with Aerosmith, joined Seaman and
Rosen. In October, Rosen wrote in his journal that Fred's fantasy was
that "Everybody who was ever associated with the Beatles in any way, shape
or form drops dead. Fred is the only one who remains alive. He corners
the gossip market... We [Seaman, Dufay, Rosen] are all that close. We know
how contemptible the other one is..."
In November 1981, Yoko learned that Julian was planning to record the
songs that she intended to release on the follow-up to "Double Fantasy".
She called Julian and learned that he got the cassette from Fred. Julian
apologized. The same month, Seaman and Dufay stole a large amount of audio
equipment from the Dakota, including an expensive amplifier that John
used to keep by his bed. The next day, someone noticed that equipment was
missing. Elliot Mintz took inventory and found that a lot of things were
missing. No suspicion was cast on Fred, and he wrote in his diary:
"Yesterday's theft doesn't seem to have any consequences, thank God."
The next month Fred showed up at the Christmas Party wearing one of John's
old scarves. Yoko asked him about it. He denied it at first, and then
admitted it may have been one of John's. After getting into a $12,000 car
accident while using a Lenono car for personal business, and then being
caught using Yoko's private bath during work hours, Fred was fired and
given $10,000 severance. From Fred's diary: "My immediate regret is that
I won't have an opportunity to go through the files and avail myself of
'research' material."
The next month, Rosen wrote in his diary that "Possession of the journals
are my best leverage." He also wrote that he was afraid the journals
would be stolen. Seaman's psychotherapist introduced Fred to Norman
Schonfeld, a retired diamond merchant who agreed to finance 'Project
Walrus'. In his diary, Fred wrote that the plan was to discredit Yoko
as much as possible and to set himself up as the real inheritor of
Lennon's artistic and social legacy. Schonfeld and the pschotherapist
soon convinced Fred that Rosen should be cut out of the project. Rosen
was sent to the Carribean and while he was away, Fred wrote: "Norman
[Schonfeld] and I decided to take all the stuff out. . . absconded with
his copy of the journals, the Bermuda tape and anything else we could
carry out." After Rosen returned to his empty apartment, Fred called
and told him what they had done.
In August 1982, Rosen tried to sell his story to magazines, telling them
he had a photographic memory. When no one made an offer, he called Mintz
and offered to return some material for a price. When Mintz threatened to
call the police, Rosen spilled the whole story, claiming to be a dupe of
Seaman's.
A shabbily dressed man showed up at the Dakota with a box full of papers,
including John's diary. He claimed to have gotten them from a junkie in
Harlem. Sam Havadtoy [Yoko's companion] paid him $5,000 to get the rest
of the diaries but he disappeared. They then discovered that the papers
contained only a photocopy of John's 1980 diary and that the rest of the
papers were Fred's journals. When they learned from Rosen that Schonfeld had
put up $33,000 for 'Project Walrus', they figured that he must have the
journals. They approached him and he offered to return the diaries in
return for $60,000 in "expenses". They agreed, and they receive all of the
original diaries back, with the exception of the original 1980 diary which
was never recovered.
In April 1983, Seaman got a $90,000 advance from Simon & Schuster.
Havadtoy called the police and Fred was arrested for grand larceny. The
police found some of the stolen electronic equipment in Fred's home and
storage room. Fred turned over his photocopies of Lennon's diaries. Later,
after he was released, a visitor to his apartment reported that it contained
gold records from 'Double Fantasy' and a piece of Yoko's artwork called
'A Box of Smile' (you open the box and find a mirror on the inside of the
lid).
On May 27, Seaman plead guilty to second-degree grand larceny. He was
sentenced to five years probation. His plea was contingent on his
agreement not to reveal what is in the Lennon diaries. [Simon & Schuster
then cancelled his book deal and withdrew his $90,000 advance.] When Sheff
contacted Dufay for the Playboy story, he wasn't available. Schonfeld said
he didn't know anything about Lennon, Seaman or the diaries. Rosen said,
"I probably knew deep down that the journals were stolen, but I never
admitted it to myself - I didn't want to know."
-----
Here is the summary of Fred Seaman's account, published in the afterword
of his book, "The Last Days of John Lennon":
On December 23, 1980, during the aftermath of John's death, Elliot Mintz
found John's 1980 diary in his bedroom. He told Fred to take it to Yoko.
Fred was surprised by her lack of interest in the diary. She asked him
to file it with his other papers. Fred told Yoko that five months earlier,
in Bermuda, John had mentioned to him that he wanted Julian to get his
journals if anything happened to him. In January 1981 Fred found John's
journals for 1974-1979, also in John's bedroom. Fred decided to deliver
the journals to Julian. Fred met a close friend from college [Bob Rosen,
though the afterword does not mention his name], who offered to copy the
journals overnight while Fred packed for his trip to London to see Julian.
Rosen then called back and said they should collaborate together on a
book based on the diaries. Fred then consulted with his psychotherapist
who recommended that he play along with Rosen. He also put him in touch
with Norman Shoenfeld, a wealthy patient of his, who baited Rosen in order
to retrieve the diaries.
Around Christman 1981, Schoenfeld told Rosen that he would finance a book
and send him on an expenses-paid vacation to the Carribean provided that
Rosen first turn over John's journals. Rosen agreed. Schoenfeld then
insisted on keeping the diaries himself, and promised Fred he would find
a way to return them to Yoko through an intermediary.
Rosen then approached magazines offering to sell them copies of the journals
that he had stashed. Jan Wenner of 'Rolling Stone' tipped off Yoko who
had Mintz track down Rosen. When confronted, Rosen implicated Seaman as
the mastermind behind the diary conspiracy, and he also accused Shoenfeld
and the psychotherapist.
On August 13, the apartment that Fred was staying in was burglarized and
two of his own journals from 1980 were stolen (he had photocopies).
After Rosen confessed, Fred called Yoko in late August to tell her his side
of the story. Yoko's chief of security, Dan Mahoney, a NYC police sergeant,
met Fred and told him that Schoenfeld had returned John's original diaries
to Yoko for a $60,000 finders fee. Mahoney said that the 1980 journal was
missing and that it was thought that Fred had it. When Fred said he didn't,
Mahoney told him, "I like you, Freddie, and I wouldn't like to see you get
hurt."
On September 27, Fred was stopped outside his apartment by two policemen
who worked as bodyguards for Yoko, one of whom was Mahoney's partner. They
told him they had a warrant for his arrest, and drove him to a deserted
alley in the meat-packing district. They demanded Lennon's 1980 diary,
and when Fred said he didn't have it, one of the cops wrapped his first
in a rain coat and started punching Fred, shouting "we'll either have the
journal or you'll be dead." After several minutes of this, they drove
with Fred along the Hudson and quietly discussed shooting Fred and dumping
his body. They stopped, Fred was pulled out of the car, and a gun was
held to the back of his head. "If you don't cooperate, I'll blow your
brains out," the cop threatened, but when Fred insisted he didn't have it,
they drove him to the 20th Precinct and warned him not to tell anybody
what had happened. They also took the keys to his apartment. Fred was
soon taken to his apartment while the police searched it. They collected
anything they thought he might have stolen from the Dakota such as papers
and tapes. Back at the station, Fred was asked to sign a confession that
said he had taken things from the Dakota without Yoko's approval. Fred
said that he had only taken John's diaries. The detectives said they
believed Fred, that the wording of the confession would be changed later,
and that he could go after he signed. Fred signed and was then locked up
overnight.
After being released, Fred hired an attorney to initiate a civil suit
against Yoko, Havadtoy and NYC in connection with his assault. On December
8, the charges against Fred were dropped. However, on February 18, 1983,
Fred learned that Yoko was bringing his case before a grand jury. Since
Fred had given signed and videotaped confessions saying he had taken John's
diaries, his attorneys told him he should plead guilty in return for a
suspended sentence. Fred agreed to plead guilty to criminal possession,
a misdemeanor. On May 27, when Fred went before the judge, he found that
"criminal possession" had been crossed out and replaced with "grand larceny",
a felony. His attorney told him he would have to either sign the
plea-bargain agreement or pay him $10,000 to retain his services. Fred
signed the plea-bargain agreement and was sentenced to five years probation.
Since Fred had spent nearly $30,000 on legal fees at this point, he was
unable to pursue his civil suit against Yoko, Havadtoy and NYC.
-----
Some questions for Fred Seaman:
1. Did Mintz's audio equipment inventory that showed there was missing
equipment become known before or after you were found to have taken
John's diaries?
2. Do Schoenfeld and your psychotherapist back your story?
3. Were either charged with stealing the diaries?
4. Were the entries in Rosen's journal that implicate you fabricated?
(e.g. "He corners the gossip market.").
5. Did you ever have a handwriting expert examine the entries in your
journal that you say were fabricated?
6. Why did you wait nearly a year before taking action to retrieve the
diaries from Rosen?
7. Did your signed confession list the audio equipment you were accused
of stealing or was this thrown in later?
JimR
fabt...@yahoo.com
amara...@aol.com (Amaranth56) wrote:
> >>>Exactly what would that LP be? The vast majority of the original Sheff
> >>>interviews were not of sufficient quality to be released. Excerpts have
> >>>come out, but none by Mr. Sheff or the Lennon estate.
>
Isn't HEARTPLAY, the interview album with J&Y sitting at a table on the cover
the album in question here? I've never heard it, but seem to recall being
told it was the playboy interviews... It was a legit release, coming out on
Polydor around Milk & Honey? jon
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
jim...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jim Richard) wrote:
> In article <77egh8$u5v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <elsa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> > In fact, I did look into suing PLAYBOY. I was advised that Sheff's article
> >did meet the legal test for libel: It was false, in reckless disregard of the
> >truth (Sheff knowingly wrote things in the article that he new to be false),
> >and malicious (as evidenced by Sheff's fabricated quotes; Sheff's aticle was
> >clearly pro-Yoko & anti-Fred -- I'm sure that even my detractors will concede
> >this...)
> > -FS
>
> Since Fred Seaman has started posting to r.m.b., I thought people would
> be interested in comparing David Sheff's description of the missing Lennon
> diaries with Seaman's. Here are summaries of the two accounts. Following
> the summaries are a few questions that I hope Fred will answer.
>
> -----
> Here is the summary of "The Betrayal of John Lennon", published in the March
> 1984 Playboy:
>
> Right after Lennon's death, Seaman drew up a contract with Bob Rosen.
>
For the next year, Fred stole documents from the Dakota apartments and
> delivered them to Rosen each Friday.
I DID TAKE LENNON'S DIARIES OUT OF THE DAKOTA, BUT I NEVER STOLE ANY OTHER
DOCUMENTS AS SUGGESTED BY THE PLAYBOY ARTICLE, AND I NEVER DELIVERED ANY
DOCUMENTS TO ROSEN ON FRIDAYS OR ANY OTHER TIME (ON FRIDAYS I USUALLY WENT OUT
WITH A GIRLFRIEND).
Seaman stole money from Lenono
> petty-cash to pay Rosen.
MORE BS. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE OPERATION OF YOKO'S OFFICE,
STUDIO ONE, WOULD KNOW THAT THIS IS A LIE. THE "PETTY CASH" WAS KEPT UNDER
LOCK AND KEY IN THE ACCOUNTANT'S DESK & EVERY DOLLAR OF PC HAD TO BE
ACCOUNTED FOR.
In May 1981, Seaman gave Julian Lennon a
> copy of the cassette of John's final songs recorded in Bermuda.
Seaman's
> journal suggests that he intended to try to convince Julian that he, rather
> than Yoko, was the rightful guardian of his father's diaries. Sheff words
> this as "his aim is to draw Julian into the plan."
>
IT IS TRUE THAT I GAVE A COPY OF JOHN'S BERMUDA DEMOS TO JULIAN, AND IT WAS
CYNTHIA WHO HAD ASKED FOR A COPY OF THE TAPE. MY JOURNAL DOES NOT SUGGEST
THAT I INTENDED TO TRY TO CONVINCE JULIAN OF ANYTHING
> In August 1981, Rick Dufay, a guitarist with Aerosmith, joined Seaman and
> Rosen. In October, Rosen wrote in his journal that Fred's fantasy was
> that "Everybody who was ever associated with the Beatles in any way, shape
> or form drops dead. Fred is the only one who remains alive. He corners
> the gossip market... We [Seaman, Dufay, Rosen] are all that close. We know
> how contemptible the other one is..."
>
RICK DUFAY WAS A FRIEND OF JACK DOUGLAS, THE CO-PRODUCER OF "DOUBLE
FANTASY", WHO IN 1982 SUED YOKO FOR $3 MILLION (HIS SHARE OF ROYALTIES FROM
DF, WHICH YOKO REFUSED TO PAY HIM). DUFAY WAS SLANDERED IN THE PLAYBOY
ARTICLE BECAUSE OF HIS CLOSE FRIENDSHIP WITH DOUGLAS. IT WAS ROSEN'S FANTASY
THAT THAT EVERYBODY ASOCIATED WITH THE BEATLES DROPS DEAD & THEN HE (ROSEN)
CORNERS THE GOSSIP MARKET. HE WAS (& STILL IS) A VERY SICK PUPPY...
> In November 1981, Yoko learned that Julian was planning to record the
> songs that she intended to release on the follow-up to "Double Fantasy".
JULIAN DID RECORD TWO OF JOHN'S DEMOS ("FACE IT" & "STEPPIN' OUT" I THINK).
I ADVISED JULIAN AGAINST RELEASING THE SONGS, AS HE WOULD NEED YOKO'S
PERMISSION TO RELEASE THEM, BECAUSE SHE OWNED THE COPYRIGHT. JULIAN ASSUMED
THAT YOKO WOULDN'T OBJECT. HE WAS WRONG.
> She called Julian and learned that he got the cassette from Fred. Julian
> apologized. The same month, Seaman and Dufay stole a large amount of audio
> equipment from the Dakota, including an expensive amplifier that John
> used to keep by his bed.
NEITHER DUFAY NOR I STOLE ANY EQUIPMENT. THE SUGGESTION THAT A LARGE AMOUNT
OF EQUIPMENT COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE DAKOTA WITHOUT ANYBODY TAKING NOTICE
IS PREPOSTEROUS.
....MORE TO COME...
-FRED SEAMAN
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
> ACCOUNTED FOR.
>
> In May 1981, Seaman gave Julian Lennon a
> > copy of the cassette of John's final songs recorded in Bermuda.
> Seaman's
> > journal suggests that he intended to try to convince Julian that he, rather
> > than Yoko, was the rightful guardian of his father's diaries. Sheff words
> > this as "his aim is to draw Julian into the plan."
> >
> > IT IS TRUE THAT I GAVE A COPY OF JOHN'S BERMUDA DEMOS TO JULIAN, AND IT
WAS CYNTHIA WHO HAD ASKED FOR A COPY OF THE TAPE. MY JOURNAL DOES NOT
SUGGEST
> THAT I INTENDED TO TRY TO CONVINCE JULIAN OF ANYTHING
>
> > In August 1981, Rick Dufay, a guitarist with Aerosmith, joined Seaman and
> > Rosen.
DUFAY WAS A CLOSE FRIEND OF JACK DOUGLAS (WHO IN 1979 PRODUCED DUFAY'S LP,
"TENDER LOVE & ABUSE") & DID NOT "JOIN" ME OR ROSEN IN ANY CONSPIRACY, AS
SUGGESTED BY SCHEFF. DUFAY'S NAME WAS SLANDERED BECAUSE OF HIS RELATIONSHIP
WITH DOUGLAS, WHO IN 1982 SUED YOKO FOR $3 MILLION -- HIS SHARE OF ROYALTIES
FROM DOUBLE FANTASY.
In October, Rosen wrote in his journal that Fred's fantasy was
> > that "Everybody who was ever associated with the Beatles in any way, shape
> > or form drops dead. Fred is the only one who remains alive. He corners
> > the gossip market... We [Seaman, Dufay, Rosen] are all that close. We know
> > how contemptible the other one is..."
> >
> > WHAT BS! I NEVER HARBORED ANY FANTASY LIKE THE ONE ALLEGEDLY ASCRIBED TO ME
IN ROSEN'S JOURNAL. MAYBE IT WAS ROSEN'S FANTASY THAT THAT EVERYBODY
ASOCIATED WITH THE BEATLES DROPS DEAD & THEN HE (ROSEN) CORNERS THE GOSSIP
MARKET. HE WAS (& STILL IS) A VERY SICK PUPPY...
>
> > In November 1981, Yoko learned that Julian was planning to record the
> > songs that she intended to release on the follow-up to "Double Fantasy".
>
> JULIAN DID RECORD TWO OF JOHN'S DEMOS ("FACE IT" & "STEPPIN' OUT" I THINK).
> I ADVISED JULIAN AGAINST RELEASING THE SONGS, AS HE WOULD NEED YOKO'S
> PERMISSION TO RELEASE THEM, BECAUSE SHE OWNED THE COPYRIGHT. JULIAN ASSUMED
> THAT YOKO WOULDN'T OBJECT. HE WAS WRONG.
>
> > She called Julian and learned that he got the cassette from Fred. Julian
> > apologized. The same month, Seaman and Dufay stole a large amount of audio
> > equipment from the Dakota, including an expensive amplifier that John
> > used to keep by his bed.
>
> NEITHER DUFAY NOR I STOLE ANY EQUIPMENT. THE SUGGESTION THAT A LARGE AMOUNT
> OF EQUIPMENT COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE DAKOTA WITHOUT ANYBODY TAKING NOTICE
> IS PREPOSTEROUS.
> >
> The next day, someone noticed that equipment was
> > missing. Elliot Mintz took inventory and found that a lot of things were
> > missing. No suspicion was cast on Fred, and he wrote in his diary:
> > "Yesterday's theft doesn't seem to have any consequences, thank God."
> >
MINTZ BEGAN TAKING INVENTORY OF JOHN'S POSSESSIONS IN THE SUMMER OF 1981.
NOTHING WAS FOUND TO BE MISSING. THE 1982 DIARY ENTRY ASCRIBED TO ME WAS
FABRICATED. I DIDN'T EVEN KEEP A DIARY IN 1982.>
> > The next month Fred showed up at the Christmas Party wearing one of John's
> > old scarves. Yoko asked him about it. He denied it at first, and then
> > admitted it may have been one of John's.
I NEVER WORE ANY OF JOHN'S CLOTHES. I HAD BOUGHT A COLORFUL, STRIPED JACKET
IN CARNABY ST. IN LONDON IN THE SUMMER OF 1981 & IT WAS THIS JACKET THAT I
WORE AT THE XMAS PARTY. WHEN YOKO MENTIONED THAT THE JACKET LOOKED LIKE ONE
OF JOHN'S, I TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS MISTAKEN.
After getting into a $12,000 car
> > accident while using a Lenono car for personal business,
BS. I ACCIDENTALLY DAMAGED THE UNDERCARRIAGE OF THE MERCEDES DRIVING OVER A
POTHOLE. THE OIL PAN WAS DAMAGED & THE ACTUAL DAMAGE WAS ABOUT $5OO...
and then being
> > caught using Yoko's private bath during work hours, Fred was fired and
> > given $10,000 severance.
I NEVER TOOK A BATH IN YOKO'S TUB, EITHER DURING WORK HOURS OT AFTER WORK...
From Fred's diary: "My immediate regret is that
> > I won't have an opportunity to go through the files and avail myself of
> > 'research' material."
MORE FABRICATED QUOTES (COUTESY OF E.MINTZ) FROM A NON-EXISTENT DIARY.
> >
> > The next month, Rosen wrote in his diary that "Possession of the journals
> > are my best leverage." He also wrote that he was afraid the journals
> > would be stolen. Seaman's psychotherapist introduced Fred to Norman
> > Schonfeld, a retired diamond merchant who agreed to finance 'Project
> > Walrus'.
THE QUOTE FROM ROSEN'S JOURNAL SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE. "PROJECT WALRUS' SOUNDS
LIKE SOMETHING MINTZ MADE UP.
In his diary, Fred wrote that the plan was to discredit Yoko
> > as much as possible and to set himself up as the real inheritor of
> > Lennon's artistic and social legacy.
WHAT NONSENSE! I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING OF THE SORT. THE MERE SUGGESTION THAT
I HARBORED SUCH DELUSIONAL THOUGHTS IS IN ITSELF A FORM OF CHARACTER
ASSASSINATION
Schonfeld and the pschotherapist
> > soon convinced Fred that Rosen should be cut out of the project. Rosen
> > was sent to the Carribean and while he was away, Fred wrote: "Norman
> > [Schonfeld] and I decided to take all the stuff out. . . absconded with
> > his copy of the journals, the Bermuda tape and anything else we could
> > carry out."
I BELIEVE THAT ROSEN GAVE SCHOENFELD A KEY TO HIS APT. & IT IS POSSIBLE THAT
SCHOENFELD BURGLARIZED ROSEN'S APARTMENT IN HIS ABSENCE.
After Rosen returned to his empty apartment, Fred called
> > and told him what they had done.
BS. I HAD NO CONTACT WITH ROSEN AFTER HE LEFT FOR JAMAICA.
> >
> > In August 1982, Rosen tried to sell his story to magazines, telling them
> > he had a photographic memory. When no one made an offer, he called Mintz
> > and offered to return some material for a price.
I BELIEVE THAT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WAS THAT ROSEN TRIED TO PEDDLE COPIES
OF THE LENNON DIARIES TO ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE, WHOSE EDITOR, JANN WENNER, A
MAJOR YOKO SYCOPHANT, CONTACTED YOKO, WHO THEN PUT MINTZ ON THE CASE
When Mintz threatened to
> > call the police, Rosen spilled the whole story, claiming to be a dupe of
> > Seaman's.
>
> > A shabbily dressed man showed up at the Dakota with a box full of papers,
> > including John's diary. He claimed to have gotten them from a junkie in
> > Harlem. Sam Havadtoy [Yoko's companion] paid him $5,000 to get the rest
> > of the diaries but he disappeared. They then discovered that the papers
> > contained only a photocopy of John's 1980 diary and that the rest of the
> > papers were Fred's journals. When they learned from Rosen that Schonfeld
had
> > put up $33,000 for 'Project Walrus', they figured that he must have the
> > journals. They approached him and he offered to return the diaries in
> > return for $60,000 in "expenses". They agreed, and they receive all of the
> > original diaries back, with the exception of the original 1980 diary which
> > was never recovered.
THIS STUFF ABOUT A "JUNKIE" SHOWING UP AT THE DAKOTA WITH A BOX FULL OF
PAPERS SOUNDS LIKE BS...
> >
> > In April 1983, Seaman got a $90,000 advance from Simon & Schuster.
MY BOOK DEAL WITH S&S CALLED FOR A $6o,ooo ADVANCE, TO BE PAID IN THREE
INSTALLMENTS. I RECEIVED ONLY THE FIRST $2O,OOO INSTALLMENT & ALL OF IT WENT
TO MY LAWYERS...
> > Havadtoy called the police and Fred was arrested for grand larceny.
NO. IT WAS YOKO WHO CALLED LT. DETECTIVE RICHARD GIBBONS AT THE 2OTH POLICE
PRECINST ON SEPT. 18, 1982, DEMANDING THAT I BE ARRESTED...
.............MORE TO COME
-FRED SEAMAN
elsa...@my-dejanews.com
> WITH DOUGLAS, WHO IN 1982 SUED YOKO FOR $3 MILLION -- HIS SHARE OF ROYALTIES
(VIA SCHEFF) AS A MEANS OF GETTING BACK AT DOUGLAS.
>
> In October, Rosen wrote in his journal that Fred's fantasy was
> > > that "Everybody who was ever associated with the Beatles in any way, shape
> > > or form drops dead.
METHINKS THIS WAS ROSEN'S FANTASY...
Fred is the only one who remains alive. He corners
> > > the gossip market... We [Seaman, Dufay, Rosen] are all that close. We know
> > > how contemptible the other one is..."
> > >
> > > I ONLY KNOW HOW CONTEMPTIBLE ROSEN & SCHEFF ARE.
>
> >
> > > In November 1981, Yoko learned that Julian was planning to record the
> > > songs that she intended to release on the follow-up to "Double Fantasy".
> >
> > JULIAN DID RECORD TWO OF JOHN'S DEMOS ("FACE IT" & "STEPPIN' OUT" I THINK).
> > I ADVISED JULIAN AGAINST RELEASING THE SONGS, AS HE WOULD NEED YOKO'S
> > PERMISSION TO RELEASE THEM, BECAUSE SHE OWNED THE COPYRIGHT. JULIAN ASSUMED
> > THAT YOKO WOULDN'T OBJECT. HE WAS WRONG.
> >
> > > She called Julian and learned that he got the cassette from Fred. Julian
> > > apologized. The same month, Seaman and Dufay stole a large amount of audio
> > > equipment from the Dakota, including an expensive amplifier that John
> > > used to keep by his bed.
> >
> > NEITHER DUFAY NOR I STOLE ANY EQUIPMENT. THE SUGGESTION THAT A LARGE
AMOUNT
> > OF EQUIPMENT COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE DAKOTA WITHOUT ANYBODY TAKING NOTICE
> > IS PREPOSTEROUS.
> > >
> > The next day, someone noticed that equipment was
> > > missing. Elliot Mintz took inventory and found that a lot of things were
> > > missing. No suspicion was cast on Fred, and he wrote in his diary:
> > > "Yesterday's theft doesn't seem to have any consequences, thank God."
> > >
> MINTZ BEGAN TAKING INVENTORY OF JOHN'S POSSESSIONS IN THE SUMMER OF 1981.
> NOTHING WAS FOUND TO BE MISSING. THE 1982 DIARY ENTRY ASCRIBED TO ME WAS
> FABRICATED. I DIDN'T KEEP A DIARY IN 1982.>
>
> > > The next month Fred showed up at the Christmas Party wearing one of John's
> > > old scarves. Yoko asked him about it. He denied it at first, and then
> > > admitted it may have been one of John's.
>
> I NEVER WORE ANY OF JOHN'S CLOTHES. I DO RECALL WEARING A COLORFUL, STRIPED
JACKET AT THE XMAS PARTY. WHEN YOKO MENTIONED THAT THE JACKET LOOKED LIKE ONE
> OF JOHN'S, I EXPLAINED TO HER THAT I HAD BOUGHT IT EARLIER THAT YEAR IN
LONDON. I GUESS SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE ME.
>
> After getting into a $12,000 car
> > > accident while using a Lenono car for personal business,
>
> BS. I ACCIDENTALLY DAMAGED THE UNDERCARRIAGE OF THE MERCEDES DRIVING OVER A
> POTHOLE. THE OIL PAN WAS DAMAGED & THE ACTUAL DAMAGE WAS ABOUT $5OO...
>
> and then being
> > > caught using Yoko's private bath during work hours,
I NEVER TOOM A BATH IN YOKO'S TUB. AT THE TIME OF THE ALLEGED FORBIDDEN
BATH I WAS ACTUALLY LIVING IN A STUDIO APT. AT THE DAKOTA & IF I HAD BEEN
SEIZED BY AN OVERWHELMING URGE TO TAKE A BATH I WOULD HAVE DONE SO IN MY APT.
Fred was fired and
> > > given $10,000 severance.
>
I WASN'T FIRED. I HAD FIRST TOLD YOKO THAT I WANTED TO LEAVE HER EMPLOY
DAYS AFTER JOHN'S DEATH. WHEN REITERATED MY DESIRE TO QUIT EARLY IN 1981,
YOKO ASKED ME TO STAY ON UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR AND PROMISED TO PAY ME
$1o,ooo AT THAT TIME.
> PAPERS SOUNDS LIKE BS. IT IS ALSO NOT TRUE THAT SCHOENFELD "PUT UP" $33,ooo
FOR THE FICTITIOUS "PROJECT WALRUS." I DO BELIEVE THAT YOKO PAID SCHOENFELD A
"FINDER'S FEE" FOR RETURNING THE LENNON DIARIES.
bexl...@my-dejanews.com
but if you add up the individual sales of each album from their data base it
comes to 137.5 million. the only thing i can think of is that the double disk
albums are only being counted as one for the totals, but not when counted as
individual albums. very strange. i noticed when i saw the white album had
earned another platinium disc yet the beatles album total only increased by .5
million . this isn`t applied to any other artist though....
-BEN
counts platinum awards as units shipped to record stores, not sold.
Billboard uses the correct *selling** technique. So my guess is the
official totals are more accurate than the platinum awards being all
added up.
-BEN
johnatha...@bull.co.uk
The official totals are based on the the certifacations. the numbers should be
identical. Why doesn`t this apply to garth brooks? his 89 million sold are
shipped figures. it still doesn`t make any sense.