Tuning of "Mrs. Mills" Piano
Adam
http://www.maudio.co.uk/news/en_gb-982.html ):
"Steinway Vertegrand “Mrs. Mills” piano: Manufactured in Hamburg,
Germany in 1905 by Steinway & Sons, this exquisite piano has been tuned
in a way that makes it sound out of tune—but in a very pleasant way,
like some beaten-up barroom piano only better. Thanks to its lacquered
hammers, the “Mrs. Mills” piano produces a bright, cut-through-the-mix
sound and responds very dynamically to varying note velocities."
This was a favorite of '60s pop pianist Mrs. Mills, hence its name.
Going by my ear, you can hear it on the Beatles songs "Not A Second
Time," "She's A Woman," the introduction to "Don't Pass Me By," and I'm
sure you can add to this list. My question is: exactly how was it tuned
to achieve this effect? I know a little about piano tuning, but only
how to make them sound IN tune. :-) Thanks, everybody!
Adam
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goldenc...@gmail.com
There is a short paragraph in the *Bible*...RECORDING THE BEATLES
(page 314)...that describes laquering the felt hammers to give it a
percussive sound, and "de-tuning" the strings slightly to be
"harmoniously" out of tune. That is, just enough to give it that "old-
time" piano sound. Nothing more. A bit like the *chorus* effect you
get with some music audio software.
goldenc...@gmail.com
>
> Going by my ear, you can hear it on the Beatles songs "Not A Second
> Time," "She's A Woman," the introduction to "Don't Pass Me By," and I'm
> sure you can add to this list.
>
Other songs...
With A Little Help From My Friends
Lady Madonna
Penny Lane
Adam
>> My question is: exactly how was it tuned to achieve this effect?
>
> (page 314)...that describes laquering the felt hammers to give it a
> percussive sound, and "de-tuning" the strings slightly to be
> "harmoniously" out of tune. That is, just enough to give it that "old-
> time" piano sound. Nothing more. A bit like the *chorus* effect you
> get with some music audio software.
Thanks, that's what made me curious about this. (I only had that book
for two weeks, on interlibrary loan.) I get the impression it wasn't
always detuned exactly the same way. "Not a Second Time" and especially
"She's A Woman" just sound to me like a piano that needs tuning. (I'm
listening to Mrs. Mills as I write this btw.)
>> Going by my ear, you can hear it on the Beatles songs "Not A Second
>> Time," "She's A Woman," the introduction to "Don't Pass Me By," and
>> I'm sure you can add to this list.
>
> Other songs...
>
> With A Little Help From My Friends
> Lady Madonna
> Penny Lane
I should have put in a little more effort before posting. I just
listened to all their 1962-1970 releases (some chore, eh?) and my ear
suggests the following as well. On some of these, the main piano sound
is another piano but the Mrs. Mills piano seems to be somewhere in there.
Every Little Thing (?)
You Like Me Too Much (instrumental break)
Drive My Car (?)
Good Day Sunshine (piano solo)
I Want to Tell You
When I'm Sixty-Four
Lovely Rita (piano solo)
A Day in the Life
Hello Goodbye (mixed right)
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da
Rocky Raccoon (piano solo)
Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Octopus's Garden
Mean Mr. Mustard (?)
Would someone with a better ear than mine be able to confirm/deny any of
these, or add others? Thanks in advance to anyone who can contribute to
this!
dahl...@aol.com
> On May 29, 4:24 pm, Adam <a...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This was a favorite of '60s pop pianist Mrs. Mills, hence its name.
> > Going by my ear, you can hear it on the Beatles songs "Not A Second
> > Time," "She's A Woman," the introduction to "Don't Pass Me By," and I'm
> > sure you can add to this list.
>
> > Adam
>
> Other songs...
>
> With A Little Help From My Friends
>
> Lady Madonna
>
> Penny Lane
>
> www.Shemakhan.com
>
a.k.a. the jangle piano, here's some other songs:
Tomorrow Never Knows (end bit through fade out)
All You Need Is Love? (George Martin?)
Rocky Raccoon
Ob la di Ob la da
While My Guitar Gently Weeps (intro)
Back In The U.S.S.R.
Birthday
Old Brown Shoe
You Never Give Me Your Money ("out of college" bit)
Octopus' Garden
God (John solo)
============================
as far as tuning goes, from a properly tuned piano, tune just one of
the threesomes flat from the other two, The exact cents flat is top
secret. For the duo bass strings, just flatten one of the two.
If you're going to experiment, I'd go with the piano on WMGGW's intro.
It'll be the easiest to A/B against...
Ian Bell
> goldenc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> "Steinway Vertegrand “Mrs. Mills” piano
> [snip]
>>> My question is: exactly how was it tuned to achieve this effect?
>>
>> There is a short paragraph in the *Bible*...RECORDING THE BEATLES
>> (page 314)...that describes laquering the felt hammers to give it a
>> percussive sound, and "de-tuning" the strings slightly to be
>> "harmoniously" out of tune. That is, just enough to give it that "old-
>> time" piano sound. Nothing more. A bit like the *chorus* effect you
>> get with some music audio software.
>
> Thanks, that's what made me curious about this. (I only had that book
> for two weeks, on interlibrary loan.) I get the impression it wasn't
> always detuned exactly the same way. "Not a Second Time" and especially
> "She's A Woman" just sound to me like a piano that needs tuning. (I'm
> listening to Mrs. Mills as I write this btw.)
I don't know if this is relevant and it is a memory from over 40 years
ago but I seem to remember having a Nice album which had a similar
detuned piano on it - I cannot remember the album title but the first
track was in 5/4 time and had something to do with Azreal. Anyway there
was a sleeve not that said the piano was deliberately detuned to give a
'Mrs Mills' effect and they apologised to the band who followed them in
the studio.
Cheers
Ian
Nil
rec.music.beatles:
> I don't know if this is relevant and it is a memory from over 40
> years ago but I seem to remember having a Nice album which had a
> similar detuned piano on it - I cannot remember the album title
> but the first track was in 5/4 time and had something to do with
> Azreal. Anyway there was a sleeve not that said the piano was
> deliberately detuned to give a 'Mrs Mills' effect and they
> apologised to the band who followed them in the studio.
I have that album, too - called "Everything As Nice as Mother Makes It"
(but I think it may also have released under other titles.) The song is
"Azrael Revisited". Excellent album - I will listen to it tonight. It's
been years!
goldenc...@gmail.com
>
> Anyway there
> was a sleeve not that said the piano was deliberately detuned to give a
> 'Mrs Mills' effect and they apologised to the band who followed them in
> the studio.
Seems to me, rather than "apologizing" they should have had the
coutesy of re-tuning (and returning) the piano to its original *tuned*
condition.
Eric Ramon
>
> Would someone with a better ear than mine be able to confirm/deny any of
> these, or add others? Thanks in advance to anyone who can contribute to
> this!
>
> Adam
>
just got back from running....one of the songs I heard on my iPod was
Anytime at All. Must be the same piano.
hoss...@yahoo.com
I'm staying out of this one. Back at some point in my life at home I
carefully put tacks on all the hammers in the piano to get that Honky
Tonk sound. My mom was pissed!
dahl...@aol.com
>
> I'm staying out of this one. Back at some point in my life at home I
> carefully put tacks on all the hammers in the piano to get that Honky
> Tonk sound. My mom was pissed!
>
You can come back for a reply to this, though:
So did the tacks stay in for a while or did she make you remove them
straightaway?
The reason I ask: I've heard that one can screw up the hammers by
jamming tacks into them if one ever wants to go back. I would think
the damage would not be that catastrophic.
I do know that one could buy a mechanism (a "mandolin bar") to allow a
series of strips with metal buttons to hang in front of the strings
for uprights. That's what I wanted for my parent's "pyanna", but it
looked a mess to install...
A coupla links:
hoss...@yahoo.com
Nobody in the family played every day and I remember the tacks falling
out one by one. Over time they all fell out (maybe I pulled some), but
it didn't hurt the piano.
Interesting links there. I'd never heard of that stuff back then
(60's), but us brats really tested our parents patience with the tacks
in the piano AND forcing their turntable to play backwards. We later
formed a group and practiced in their living room, forcing them into
the back room to watch TV. Great, great parents.
Adam
> a.k.a. the jangle piano
Would someone who has access to "Recording the Beatles" be able to check
this? Going from memory the Mrs. Mills piano and the jangle piano
were/are separate instruments in different studios. Thanks!
Adam
goldenc...@gmail.com
> dahld...@aol.com wrote:
> > a.k.a. the jangle piano
>
> Would someone who has access to "Recording the Beatles" be able to check
> this? Going from memory the Mrs. Mills piano and the jangle piano
> were/are separate instruments in different studios. Thanks!
>
> Adam
The Challen "jangle box"...page 315 (using the "metal strips" process
to produce the "jangle". Reading this page, it becomes clear that
there was a Challen in Studio Two (along with the "de-tuned"
Steinway), AND there was a Challen in Studio Three also. It is stated
that the first use of the Challen (in Studio Three, though this is not
confirmed) was in the song TOMORROW NEVER KNOWS.
In all, there were three pianos that were used to create the various
"jangle" sounds on many of the recordings.
goldenc...@gmail.com
used in the recording of PAPERBACK WRITER a week after recording TNK.
It is tated that the most prominent use f the Studio Three Challen was
John's use of it in the recording of OB LA DI OB LA DA.
Mbux...@lowenstein.com
the same time.
goldenc...@gmail.com
>
> There are also some songs during which J&G play different chords at
> the same time.
Could you point us to an article or cite where this is written about?
dahl...@aol.com
> On Jun 1, 7:22 am, dahld...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 8:55 pm, hoss5...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > I'm staying out of this one. Back at some point in my life at home I
> > > carefully put tacks on all the hammers in the piano to get that Honky
> > > Tonk sound. My mom was pissed!
>
> > You can come back for a reply to this, though:
>
> > So did the tacks stay in for a while or did she make you remove them
> > straightaway?
>
> Nobody in the family played every day and I remember the tacks falling
> out one by one. Over time they all fell out (maybe I pulled some), but
> it didn't hurt the piano.
>
> Interesting links there. I'd never heard of that stuff back then
> (60's), but us brats really tested our parents patience with the tacks
> in the piano AND forcing their turntable to play backwards. We later
> formed a group and practiced in their living room, forcing them into
> the back room to watch TV. Great, great parents.
>
Those were the days, weren't they? Our drummer's parents tolerated the
many practices in the basement and the "concerts" in the living room
with neighbors viewing through the front picture window with nary a
complaint. One time at my place, my dad came home and it was a total
buzzkill. Never again.
==============
Dave S, that's amazing about the Challen and the other having the
mandolin bars. I'll have to go through my Beatles Monthlies from 1967
to see if I see the strips hanging on that upright. That was the year
they had the most upright piano shots.
I need to read more in the back end of Recording the Beatles. (It was
kind of a letdown for me when I got the book and every song wasn't
back there, as I assumed from the pre-sale preview.) I alway seem to
obsess on the preamps, rack stuff, and the mics in the book. And
lately, those funky coaxial Altec monitors! Beatles' Gear is another
one of those jumbo books that is too big to be within arm's reach of
the bed, too.
Mark Vail wrote a 40 page booklet to accompany the Abbey Road
Keyboards Reason refill, but I've only found an excerpt of it and
would love to see what he says about the Challen. What I've read is
that it was a warm sounding piano like a home piano with long sustain
- no mention of the mandolin bars...