Mike Love is a Dick Head
puf...@iinet.net.au
One of the great joys of being on-line is to know that lots of people all
over the world think like do and have decided that Mike Love is an
absolute arse hole (without even meeting him).
Nils E. Tangedal
Whatever he is or is not - you have to concede he *did* contribute to some
of the best music ever performed. Better than Beethoven, Bach, Brahms,
Mozart, the Beatles and all the rest. Even if he is a total asshole *now*
(senility?), a lot of the golden oldies wouldn't be the same without him.
Whatever.
--
Nils E. Tangedal
Advokat MNA
Postboks 764
5001 BERGEN, NORWAY
mailto:le...@online.no
Tel. + 47 5531 8910
Mob. + 47 9462 5481
puf...@iinet.net.au wrote in article
<puffin-1910...@classic18.nv.iinet.net.au>...
dave prokopy
i don't usually jump into these things (anymore), but ...
Nils E. Tangedal <le...@online.no> wrote:
>Whatever he is or is not - you have to concede he *did* contribute to some
>of the best music ever performed. Better than Beethoven, Bach, Brahms,
>Mozart, the Beatles and all the rest. Even if he is a total asshole *now*
>(senility?)
first, he's ALWAYS been an asshole. but that's besides the point.
mike love's "contributions" to that music is immeasurably small in comparison
to that of brian wilson's.
furthermore:
> a lot of the golden oldies wouldn't be the same without him.
you're absolutely right. they'd probably be infinitely better.
--
<+> dave prokopy <+> pro...@iquest.net <+> http://www.iquest.net/~prokopy <+>
<+> "see ya, don't wanna be ya. lunch meat. pond scum." <+>
<+> R.E.M., "the wake-up bomb" <+>
Leonard Los
On 19 Oct 1996 05:56:59 GMT, puf...@iinet.net.au wrote:
>One of the great joys of being on-line is to know that lots of people all
>over the world think like do and have decided that Mike Love is an
>absolute arse hole (without even meeting him).
Anyone who has seen the Robin Leach interview would have to agree
withthis statement. On the other hand, One cannot dismiss his
contributions to the Beach Boy sound.
L.L.
Van Dyke Cat
In article <01bbbe06$69679d60$13d17a94@klient> le...@online.no wrote...
> Whatever he is or is not - you have to concede he *did* contribute to
> some of the best music ever performed.
You mean he stood where he was told to stand and sang when he was told
to sing?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Van Dyke Cat - v...@blackcat.demon.co.uk - Columnated Ruins Domino - EH216NL
Current favourites - Pet Sounds Boxed Set / Surf's Up / Pacific Ocean Blue
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Van Dyke Cat
In article <326a364e...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> leo...@echoroom.com wrote...
> On the other hand, One cannot dismiss his contributions to the Beach
> Boy sound.
You're quite right. Whenever Brian needed a humourless, quarter-tone
flat singer who sounded like he was born without nostrils then he could
always rely on cousin Mike to fill that gap.
G.B.
leo...@echoroom.com (Leonard Los) wrote:
> Anyone who has seen the Robin Leach interview would have to agree
>withthis statement. On the other hand, One cannot dismiss his
>contributions to the Beach Boy sound.
Name at least ONE song where ML sang lead and where Brian or Carl wouldn't have
done a better job.
Aaron Schab
And while we're on the subject, has anyone ever read WHY Brian let
Mike be the "lead singer" or even why he let him in the band period other than
the fact that he was his cousin? Did Brian actually think Mike was a good
singer?
(I'm a relatively new Beach Boys fan, and I recently discovered that,
almost without exception, all the Beach Boys songs that I had ever heard that
I DIDN'T like were sung by Mike Love...)
--
aaron christopher schab
-----------------------
aaro...@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~aaro9435
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Swaying daisies sing a lazy song beneath the sun."--The Beatles, 1968
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'Dumb-Angel' Darrell Hahn
> Name at least ONE song where ML sang lead and where Brian or Carl
> wouldn't have done a better job.
All I Want To Do.... Can you imagine Brian screaming: "You...ain't got
time for diamonds, and you pay no mind to gold!!!!"
:)
| Darrell Hahn I've really only got two differences |
| ........ with President Clinton and Vice |
| darr...@u.washington.edu President Gore - foreign policy and |
| ~\ Dumb Angel /~ domestic policy. -- Jack Kemp, 10/9/96 |
Brian MacDonald
OK OK... while I'm hardly a Love apologist, I'll admit that I don't
quite mind his singing... I'll even put up with the botch up on
"Do It Again".. (the "back together" line in particular)
Love's vocal style is a bit more kickback, which is something I feel is
needed occasionally in Beach Boys songs. I wouldn't consider this
a talent by any means, but a nice element.
Of course, the price to pay for having the guy in the band for numerous
other reasons is hardly worth it. Even if he was a nice guy, his
songwriting skills or lack thereof should damn him alone. :)
==================================================================
Brian MacDonald <bri...@kuci.uci.edu>, an internet/www guy for
KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County
"You must be the pot and the kettle" - THE RIPPER
==================================================================
Thomas Krueger
G.B. (ol...@voicenet.com) wrote:
: Name at least ONE song where ML sang lead and where Brian or Carl wouldn't have
: done a better job.
Hm. Interesting philisophical question. For a lot of people, it would depend
upon which they heard first.
Also remember just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it sucks. My wife
Sandy thinks Dan Birney (Head East) screeches. I *know* she's wrong. :-)
- Tom
--
Thomas Krueger 414 541 7096 West Allis WI
Richard Rae
dave prokopy wrote:
> > a lot of the golden oldies wouldn't be the same without him.
>
> you're absolutely right. they'd probably be infinitely better.
>
This I can't agree with. ML the person I can take or leave, but like it
or not, he sang on a hell of a lot of the records we love, and I don't
agree that in a lot of those cases they would have been better sung my
anyone else in the BB's. Songs such as Surfin USA, I Get Around etc. are
far better sung with Mike's more agressive vocal style IMO.
BTW, I still think he's a dickhead, but I think that to say his singing
could always have been bettered by a Wilson is ridiculous.
Richard
Textus
Look, Rudy Martinez -- the ? of ? and the Mysterians -- is probably all
nasal and off-pitch in 1996, and he's not the kind of melodic singer that
translates to all forms of popular music. But that doesn't mean "96 Tears"
wasn't a great piece of rock'n'roll or that he didn't sing it dead on.
I would say the same thing about Mike on "Fun, Fun, Fun," "I Get Around,"
"California Girls," "Do It Again" and probably some others if I thought
about it. Mike may be an obnoxious lead singer, but in RnR that is
something of an asset, as Roger Daltrey, David Lee Roth and Mick Jagger
will attest.
Mike's failings are 1) much of his songwriting, 2) his singing well after
the fact from the BB canon recordings, and 3) his extra-musical
activities, including the lawsuits, the holier than thou attitude about
drinking and chasing women, and all that other stuff.
But there was a more compelling reason for him to be an original BB than
any of the other four. He could sing lead. He had a good sense for
rock'n'roll and he was a witty lyricist.
He is, of course, a Dick Head.
Leonard Los
On Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:26:56 +0100, Richard Rae <R.D...@shef.ac.uk>
wrote:
Well stated, I think the point I was trying to make is that Mike had
that certain edge to his vocals in those earlier songs . I've got an
idea!!!! Let's get a copy of "STACK O TRACKS" and Brian re- do the
vocals and see what we get. Maybe it would sound like what Pet Sounds
would if Mike sang lead on that lp. Seriously, I'm not saying Brian
wouldn't have done a good job on those cuts, Just that they were made
for Mike's vocal style. But I believe in the Dickhead theory.
L.L.
Leonard Los
>In article <326a364e...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> leo...@echoroom.com wrote...
>
>> On the other hand, One cannot dismiss his contributions to the Beach
>> Boy sound.
>
>You're quite right. Whenever Brian needed a humourless, quarter-tone
>flat singer who sounded like he was born without nostrils then he could
>always rely on cousin Mike to fill that gap.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Van Dyke Cat - v...@blackcat.demon.co.uk - Columnated Ruins Domino - EH216NL
> Current favourites - Pet Sounds Boxed Set / Surf's Up / Pacific Ocean Blue
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Van Dyke, does this mean that Mike's solo album( what was the name of
it???) won't ever be one of your current favorites?
L.L.
p.s. Nice to hear from you again Mr. Cat.
Van Dyke Cat
In article <326cbd55...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> leo...@echoroom.com wrote...
> Van Dyke, does this mean that Mike's solo album( what was the name of
> it???)
'Chucking Up Your Breakfast With Love', I think...
Matt Allison
In the early 70's the excellent Raspberries showed the influence
of the BB's in much of their work (also on Eric Carmens first solo
album with the song "Sunrise"). The band recorded a song called
"Cruisin' Music" which was an obvious homage to the Boys, sounding
similar to "Do it Again". Recently there has been an excellent tribute
to the Raspberries released ("Raspberries Preserved" Ginger Records
PR6317) which features an awesome version of the song by San Francisco
band The Rubinoos. So good that it sounds like the Boys themselves
could have been singing on it. Check it out.
Ginger Records
2234 N. Hamilton
Chicago, Il. 60647
312.862.4115
Scampi
On 19 Oct 1996 puf...@iinet.net.au wrote:
> One of the great joys of being on-line is to know that lots of people all
> over the world think like do and have decided that Mike Love is an
> absolute arse hole (without even meeting him).
Speak for yourself
Orion4048
Maybe if you did meet him you'd change your mind. Don't be so ignorant
and narrow minded.
Jeff Malicki
On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Van Dyke Cat wrote:
> In article <326cbd55...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> leo...@echoroom.com wrote...
>
> > Van Dyke, does this mean that Mike's solo album( what was the name of
> > it???)
>
> 'Chucking Up Your Breakfast With Love', I think...
No no no no no. It's Choking Hack With Love.
-Jeff
Van Dyke Cat
In article <54lhbs$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> orio...@aol.com wrote...
> Maybe if you did meet him you'd change your mind.
And maybe we wouldn't.
phil rupp
l
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Van Dyke, does this mean that Mike's solo album( what was the name of
>it???) won't ever be one of your current favorites?
Have you ever heard OH THOSE GIRLS?
Sean C. Courtney
In a previous article, mali...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Jeff Malicki) says:
>> 'Chucking Up Your Breakfast With Love', I think...
>
>No no no no no. It's Choking Hack With Love.
Lessee....we have _Choking Hack With Love_, and let's not forget the
three most recent pieces of crap:
STill Losin'
Bummer In Parasites
Sucks And Bites, Vol. 1
my fourteen schillings...
--
| Sean Courtney | "I believe that music
| dau...@prairienet.org | is God's voice."
| http://www.prairienet.org/~dauber | -- Brian Wilson
Textus
How about a boxed set (pine would be appropriate) compiling Looking Back
with Love, those various oldies things, Celebration and maybe highlights
from on-stage patter. I'd call it:
The Fascist of Fun
Jeff Malicki
On 24 Oct 1996, Sean C. Courtney wrote:
> Lessee....we have _Choking Hack With Love_, and let's not forget the
> three most recent pieces of crap:
>
> STill Losin'
> Bummer In Parasites
> Sucks And Bites, Vol. 1
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was thinking more of Cars and Cripes, Vol. 1
-Jeff (who thinks these would make GREAT names for bootlegs...)
Brian MacDonald
>> Maybe if you did meet him you'd change your mind.
Well, maybe if any of us had met Ceaucescu or Klaus Barbi(sp?), we'd
change our preconceived notions of them, too.
Of course, Mike Love doesn't come even close to my admittedly extreme
examples. But, after hearing so much bad stuff about Mr. Love from
*everybody*, I don't think any preconceived notions of Mike being
a "dickhead", without meeting him, are out of line. Unless
this whole negative media blitz was a conspiracy set up by
Brian Wilson to get back at Mike Love for calling Pet Sounds "shit",
and <more silly conspiracy theories, blah blah>
Plus, even if we wanted to meet ML, would we ever get the chance?
(Would we *want* to meet him?)
Textus
I have met him, once, in 1974, at a time when the songwriting on "Holland"
(still do, but I *really* loved some of the Cal Saga stuff that gets
flamed all the time).
It didn't help. Neither has listening to him on stage for a dozen or so
shows.
Sean C. Courtney
In a previous article, mali...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Jeff Malicki) says:
>> Lessee....we have _Choking Hack With Love_, and let's not forget the
>> three most recent pieces of crap:
>>
>> STill Losin'
>> Bummer In Parasites
>> Sucks And Bites, Vol. 1
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I was thinking more of Cars and Cripes, Vol. 1
>
>-Jeff (who thinks these would make GREAT names for bootlegs...)
Why, thank you!
But still...I think the best bootleg title would be a Beach Boys boot
credited to "Carl & The Passions," and calling it "ToughR Than You'll
Ever Be."
Of course, SAPCOR would release the titles, as they did with such Beatles
titles as _A Knight's Hard Day_, _F*CK!_, _Withered Beatles_ and
_Tragical History Tour_.
puf...@iinet.net.au
Who else could write a lyric so bad as
"tell me, tell me, tell me, mama,
will you ever go again to Sumahama"
Surely the prosecution rests, and Mike Love is a convicted dick head
--
*************************************************
* Hi, I'm Charlie. You may remember me from *
* such threads as "Mike Love is a Dick Head" *
* and "Mike vs Brian" *
*************************************************
dave prokopy
Richard Rae <R.D...@shef.ac.uk> wrote:
>This I can't agree with. ML the person I can take or leave, but like it
>or not, he sang on a hell of a lot of the records we love, and I don't
>agree that in a lot of those cases they would have been better sung my
>anyone else in the BB's. Songs such as Surfin USA, I Get Around etc. are
>far better sung with Mike's more agressive vocal style IMO.
there are only two songs, off the top of my head, that i can think of where
i'd describe mike's vocal delivery as "agressive," and that would be "here
today" and "all i want to do" (the _20/20_ track). the rest of the time,
mike love comes off as smarmy and nasally. as a bass vocalist in a vocal
quintet, he's average. as the lead singer of a rock group, he's terrible.
--
<+> dave prokopy <+> pro...@iquest.net <+> http://www.iquest.net/~prokopy <+>
<+> "see ya, don't wanna be ya. lunch meat. pond scum." <+>
<+> R.E.M., "the wake-up bomb" <+>
dave prokopy
Aaron Schab <aaro...@harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu> wrote:
>And while we're on the subject, has anyone ever read WHY Brian let
>Mike be the "lead singer" or even why he let him in the band period other than
>singer?
the main reason mike was "let" into the band was because he WAS brian's
cousin, and they'd sung together (at family gatherings, etc.) for years
before "the beach boys" were formed. as for why he became "the lead singer,"
i think it had a lot to do with the fact that mike, from the earliest days,
had the most-defined stage presence out of any of the guys. (he still does,
for better or for worse.) brian was obviously the musical genius, but he
has a really bad case of stage fright.
for what it's worth, for an example of a song mike sung better than brian,
i'll again point to "here today." compare the released version to brian's
early guide vocal (on bootleg and on the forthcoming _pet sounds_ box set).
but again, that's one SMALL example, and certainly no excuse for mike to
take the lead on probably 75% of the beach boys catalog, when the group was
blessed with MUCH better vocalists (i.e., everyone but mike).
Sean C. Courtney
In a previous article, puf...@iinet.net.au () says:
>Who else could write a lyric so bad as
>"tell me, tell me, tell me, mama,
>will you ever go again to Sumahama"
>Surely the prosecution rests, and Mike Love is a convicted dick head
Writing what you call bad lyrics doesn't make him a dickhead. [He's a
dickhead for OTHER reasons!!!] Coleman Francis made some rotten movies,
but does that mean he's a dickhead?
BTW--let's see you come up with something better for those lyrics.
[Don't get me wrong--I hate Mike Love just like everybody else, but I
happen to LIKE "Sumahama."]
Richard Rae
dave prokopy wrote:
>
> there are only two songs, off the top of my head, that i can think of where
> i'd describe mike's vocal delivery as "agressive," and that would be "here
> today" and "all i want to do" (the _20/20_ track). the rest of the time,
> mike love comes off as smarmy and nasally. as a bass vocalist in a vocal
> quintet, he's average. as the lead singer of a rock group, he's terrible.
OK, maybe aggressive was not quite the word I was looking for, but I
still stand by my comments concerning songs like surfin usa, or say,
california girls, for which I think Mike's vocal style is far better.
Considering Mike sang lead on I'd guess about a third of the BB's
earlier tracks ( up to PS), being a BB's fan must be a pretty miserable
pastime for you, Dave!
Richard
Textus
Some of the for better or worse is that I think Mike's world view about
what making music was in 1961 steered Brian toward a band, an easier
avenue for a would-be songwriter than any of the other possibilities. The
three of them (add Carl here) were Brian's out at a point where he was
unwilling to take music courses at community college because the teachers
saw no legitimacy in rock'n'roll, and who was probably far too shy or
whatever to have gone it alone in trying to get session gigs and sell
songs in 1961-62 L.A. And for all Murry's bravada (and I don't know, maybe
even talent) as a songwriter, Murry couldn't give Brian the connections
that Randy N's uncles could give him, or an assortment of other SoCal
teens who got into music in part because they were second gen show
business.
dave prokopy
Richard Rae <R.D...@shef.ac.uk> wrote:
>Considering Mike sang lead on I'd guess about a third of the BB's
>earlier tracks ( up to PS), being a BB's fan must be a pretty miserable
>pastime for you, Dave!
i think a lot of us are beach boys fans IN SPITE of mike love. certainly,
a lot of us still "pull" for them to make one last stab at greatness, and
unfortunately mike always seems to be there actively keeping it from
happening.
KMonaco830
>i think a lot of us are beach boys fans IN SPITE of mike love.
And I also think a lot of potential Brian Wilson fans were turned off from
the very beginning by the way this no-talent lout camped it up even in
their heyday (watch original footage of Love singing "Fun Fun Fun"--
you'll either cringe or bray with laughter). Even then, the music was
secondary to this jerk's "performing", at least as far as he was
concerned.
The Pied Piper
GGuest33 wrote:
>
> Without Mike Love the Beach Boy formula when have been destoyed directly
> effecting the groups popularity.
The Beach Boys' formula needed to change in 1967. The Beatles had never
really had a constant formula, why should the Beach Boys? When you
mention the word "formula", one thinks of product rather than art.
That's how Mike has always seen the Beach Boys and that is how they are
seen today by most people.
Mike Love , besides his personal
> problemswith Brian, loved him and tried to keep his head in THE GAME AND
> in the music instead of drugs. After Murray left the Beach Boys had no no
> business sense.Mike Love provided it.
A lot of good that did.
He and Brian didn't get along
> because Brian was so"Jacked Up" . He saw the Beach Boys as a corperation
> and as a business' and Brian was screwing it up . If it wasn't for Mike
> some of the great lyrics would have been left mto people like V.D.
> Parks[Surf's Up].
Oh yeah, thank goodness Mike was able to put an end to that "Smile" crap
and begin an era of Beach Boy popularity and artistry unparalleled in
their history.
--
___
|
| Dvak
|___
"He was a Fool unto Himself......."
Jeff Malicki
On 3 Nov 1996, GGuest33 wrote:
> If it wasn't for Mike some of the great lyrics would have been left mto
> people like V.D. Parks[Surf's Up].
And that's a problem why???
Or are you too dumb to realize what "Over and over the crow flies uncover
the cornfields" means?
-Jeff
Jeff Malicki
On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 ggue...@aol.com wrote:
> Hey Jeff-Rod
>
> When were talking about fun, " make you feel good" music the last thing I
> need to do is comprehend Edgar Allan Poe type lyrics. If you want such
> heavy lyrics, I recommend Walt Whitman . Remember "the formula," Sand,
> Surf' and Cars. Not the black crows in fields.
Which is why I believe that Brian, Dennis and Carl should've broken away
from the "Beach Boys" after Caroline No and formed a new band with Tony
Asher, Van Dyke Parks, and the Wrecking Crew. Let Mike Love's California
Sand Beach Band do the oldies and have Brian Wilson and His Messengers
deliver the deeper lyrics, more complex music.
I'm waiting for the day...
-Jeff
ggue...@aol.com
Hey Jeff-Rod
When were talking about fun, " make you feel good" music the last thing I
need to do is comprehend Edgar Allan Poe type lyrics. If you want such
heavy lyrics, I recommend Walt Whitman . Remember "the formula," Sand,
Surf' and Cars. Not the black crows in fields.
David B. Jay
tex...@aol.com
Separate band is as bad a notion as ML dominant band. Why couldn't we have
had it both ways. Rock is good. Escapism is good. Edgar Allen Poe and Walt
Whitman are good. As Jesse Jackson would say of each, "Their patch is not
big enough."