please post video of amy walk of fame

[valerie316]

if anyone has the video or pics
please post here
we would all love you for it

thanks
valerie f

[nyir...@freemail.hu]

Here you are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8zEZ9BXQss

[cpd]

<nyir...@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:1158773963.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Here you are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8zEZ9BXQss
>

Still can't believe she said what she said. Her children were there, her
parents were there... couldn't she have found a better analogy?

[Arald]

Just watched the clip on youtube and it was a bit weird. Not really the
analogy I would expect from somebody like Amy at an event like this. The
analogy was fine if it was without mentioning the lack of clothes and
the body parts that should be kept more private.

Also, what was wrong with the old man? At some point when he wasn't the
one who was speeching it looked like he could barely stand on his
feet??!!

[MrWonderful]

I agree with Arald that Amy may have said more than necessary, but from
personal experience I know that when I am speaking to large crowds and
television audiences; usually i can't resist talking about my
*enourmous* wanger and perhaps even giving everyone a look-see~!

hahahahahahaha : ) Lala

[SRobi...@aol.com]

Don't know if this quote was included in this particular clip --
haven't viewed it yet, however, from a fan who attended, Amy also had
this bit of wisdom to include in her brief "speech" as well:

''If you just are willing to pray a simple prayer, God use me. All that
you have for me, help me to receive. We can all be an eternal piece of
the bigger puzzle that will last longer than a Hollywood star.''

(Most likely, you won't hear too much about the more important aspect
of what she had to say.)

[valerie316]

could someone get a copy of this to share ,not just a link

thanks
valerie

[cpd]

<SRobi...@aol.com> wrote in message

>
> Don't know if this quote was included in this particular clip --
> haven't viewed it yet, however, from a fan who attended, Amy also had
> this bit of wisdom to include in her brief "speech" as well:
>
> ''If you just are willing to pray a simple prayer, God use me. All that
> you have for me, help me to receive. We can all be an eternal piece of
> the bigger puzzle that will last longer than a Hollywood star.''
>
>
> (Most likely, you won't hear too much about the more important aspect
> of what she had to say.)

No, that quote isn't included in the video. We probably won't hear about it
because the "tits to the wind" line stole that thunder. Who's going to talk
about her meaningful comment when such a titillating tidbit was uttered?
That's why it's so important, star or not, to choose our words carefully!

[MrWonderful]

Personally, I'm getting more sexually excited by your use of
"titillating tidbit" than what She said. Of course, I never say "tits."
I prefer, "titties"~!
I hope we've cleared that up~! : ) Lala
hahahahaha

[cpd]

"MrWonderful" <amyse...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158796883.6...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>
> cpd wrote:
>>
>> No, that quote isn't included in the video. We probably won't hear about
>> it
>> because the "tits to the wind" line stole that thunder. Who's going to
>> talk
>> about her meaningful comment when such a titillating tidbit was uttered?
>> That's why it's so important, star or not, to choose our words carefully!
>
> Personally, I'm getting more sexually excited by your use of
> "titillating tidbit" than what She said. Of course, I never say "tits."
> I prefer, "titties"~!
> I hope we've cleared that up~! : ) Lala
> hahahahaha
>

As soon as I wrote that I knew you'd appreciate it! :-)

[SRobi...@aol.com]

I agree with you there that it's definitely important to choose our
words carefully. I think you're right about the 'tintillating word'
stealing the attention, mostly when it comes to what media types will
hi-light and what they won't. However, after she mentioned the
importance of asking God to use us and our use in God's scheme of
things being eternally more important than a man made temporal
Hollywood star, you could hear affirmative applause in that audience
and some "Amens" as well. So even with the misplaced words at the
beginning that caused some surprises and laughter, the ending of her
speech no doubt caused some thought as well as she also discussed the
fact that she wasn't perfect and neither was anyone else there.

[cpd]

<SRobi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158799203....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
<snipping some>

>So even with the misplaced words at the
> beginning that caused some surprises and laughter, the ending of her
> speech no doubt caused some thought as well as she also discussed the
> fact that she wasn't perfect and neither was anyone else there.
>

But that's the point! Only the people who heard the speech live are talking
about about the bigger picture. The press and general public are only
talking about the other comment.

[kristo...@aol.com]

I'm not sure what press are talking about the other comment. There are
94 news stories on Google about the event...and none mention the word
"tits." Granted, I'm sure there are reports not included there...but
none of the 100 there mention it.

I sometimes wonder if the only people talking about it are people on
Amy Grant message boards like this. And we're all probably a little
too Amy obsessed to be counted as a typical sample of the population.

She shared lovely thoughts honoring the fact that she hadn't
accomplished anything alone. Yeah, she chose a picturesque image.
(Did I spell that correctly? Hmm...)

But if we allow ourselves to miss out on the great message she provided
because of a mildly graphic word...maybe that says more about us than
her.

Or maybe I just have lax standards... Wouldn't be the first time I was
wrong...

[Rob]

I have to agree that it was a "mildly graphic word," and I wondered if in
the south it's a more appropriate word to use.

<kristo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158807315.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

[SRobi...@aol.com]

The press was indeed there, but they simply editted out the words that
perhaps they couldn't put in print. No big deal. I agree with
kristofermarco that Amy said far more than that, and perhaps the light
intro into what she said at least got folks' attention. She was simply
emphasizing the point that when she first started out, if was pretty
much unfounded territory what was to become the CCM industry, and she
pretty well described how she felt vulnerable in such a position, but
was aided by so many people involved in the entire developing process.

Here's hoping some of the FOA fans have the entire speech so we can get
to hear the ENTIRE presentation. :-)

In any event, one of the fans was nice enough to create a short 'Photo
Show' of the event. Thought I'd share it here as well.

http://www.photoshow.net/scripts_main/build/player.php?show=qZQzSjItf

[MrWonderful]

SRobi...@aol.com wrote:
> In any event, one of the fans was nice enough to create a short 'Photo
> Show' of the event. Thought I'd share it here as well.
>
>
> http://www.photoshow.net/scripts_main/build/player.php?show=qZQzSjItf

I noticed a painting on the wall had a bunch of *tits*~!
hahahaha
*AND* who is the flamer with the white feathery wrap around his neck~!?
It's *prob'ly* Bill~! hahahahaha : ) Lala

[j1201]

That wasn't the only queen in that slideshow! We should play the
"count the queers" game.

I played that game at the concert I attended. I lost count and gave up
after awhile.

Barry

[j1201]

Was it just me or did Amy seem very emotional and super super super
thankful? Her voice seemed on the verge of tears!

Loved the peace sign w/ the tits to the wind.

Barry

[cpd]

"Rob" <rfl...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:0OnQg.153784$FQ1.91942@attbi_s71...

>I have to agree that it was a "mildly graphic word," and I wondered if in
>the south it's a more appropriate word to use.
>

Nope! If this born-and-bred Southern girl had used that word my Mom would
have washed my mouth out with soap!

[Rob]

I told you, Amy has a *large* Gay following. It's like that at almost every
appearance if you notice.

"j1201" <blrey...@mail.ncyu.edu.tw> wrote in message
news:1158826896....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[kristo...@aol.com]

I think it was on her MSN newsgroup...but somewhere there once was a
big, long thread about why Amy attracts such a gay following...

Anybody else remember that?

[Rob]

I've always believed that it's her gentle spirit and her message of love and
kindness.

<kristo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158900460.5...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Arald]

Was the thing on YouTube the complete thing or was it edited?

Many years ago I was at the Walk of Fame but maybe someday I have to go
back to see Amy's star.

[Arald]

kristo...@aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what press are talking about the other comment. There are
> 94 news stories on Google about the event...and none mention the word
> "tits." Granted, I'm sure there are reports not included there...but
> none of the 100 there mention it.

This can also make you wonder how reliable our news sources are. The
whole thing about the female body parts was a part of Amy's little
speech and so if they write a news item about the speech and what Amy
said they should mention it in order to give an adequate reflection of
what was said. Having close to 100 articles not mentioning this makes me
wonder what we mis in other articles (about more serious issues)

> I sometimes wonder if the only people talking about it are people on
> Amy Grant message boards like this. And we're all probably a little
> too Amy obsessed to be counted as a typical sample of the population.

Me obsessed? I am only obsessed with the one I love.

> Or maybe I just have lax standards... Wouldn't be the first time I was
> wrong...

I have pretty lx standards myself but this speech really surprised me.
It's soemthing you expect from a Christina Aguilera or Britney spears,
not Amy Grant

[PearL]

j1201 wrote:
> the tits to the wind.

I cant believe she said that (or had a sign with those words on it).
Very classless and tasteless, IMO.

[Rob]

She does say it on the video.

"PearL" <bstn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158945685.8...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[PearL]

I agree with you Christy, and it has nothing to do with the fact that
Amy is supposedly a christian saying it. I've always hated the "t"
word. It just sounds crude to me, no matter who is saying it (which is
usually sleezy men).

Anyway, this is just one more thing in a long list of things that have
slowly over time turned me off to her. It's unfortunate, but I've
actually grown to dislike her over the past 10 years.... personality
wise and musically. I wont get into the "personality" reasons cause
there's no point... but even her music for the past 12 yrs has been
crap, ***IMO***. I've been sticking around as a "fan" since HOL, just
hoping she'd come out with something that moved me, but for the most
part, her music (1994- present) does nothing for me. Since HOL there
have been maybe 2-3 songs I like "ok", but nothing that makes me go...
wow, *there's* the Amy I know and love. I havent purchased her last 3-4
albums, and even worse.... I havent even felt "drawn" to listen to
*any* of her music in years. It's kind of sad in a way, because for the
longest time, she was my favorite artist of all time. Oh well. Life
goes on.

I think I mentioned this before (but I never got around to doing it)...
I've decided to sell off my amy collection of tour books, tee shirts,
old amy newsletters, pics, magazine articles, etc... so if anybody here
is interested, I'll make a post letting y'all know when I put it all up
on ebay.

[Rob]

Wow. I had no idea that any longtime fan felt that way about BTE.

"PearL" <bstn...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1158949764.6...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Arald]

Rob wrote:
>
> Wow. I had no idea that any longtime fan felt that way about BTE.

I believe BTE is one of the worst album I ever owned. pearl is not the
only one not liking it. I believe there are more people not liking it.
After all, it was not really a succesful album. At least not one I have
seen in list when people are asked to name their 10 favorite albums. It
did not really write music history.

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message
news:4513908F...@arald.com...

> cpd wrote:
>>
>> <SRobi...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1158799203....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> <snipping some>
>> >So even with the misplaced words at the
>> > beginning that caused some surprises and laughter, the ending of her
>> > speech no doubt caused some thought as well as she also discussed the
>> > fact that she wasn't perfect and neither was anyone else there.
>> >
>>
>> But that's the point! Only the people who heard the speech live are
>> talking
>> about about the bigger picture. The press and general public are only
>> talking about the other comment.
>
> Was the thing on YouTube the complete thing or was it edited?

It was edited.

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[Rob]

Really? I always believed that with most of us, BTE was only a short step
behind LMO.

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:4514480D...@arald.com...

[PearL]

Arald wrote:
> Rob wrote:
> >
> > Wow. I had no idea that any longtime fan felt that way about BTE.
>
> I believe BTE is one of the worst album I ever owned. pearl is not the
> only one not liking it.

Altho I do not like BTE, I think Simple Things was even worse. That
album was REALLY BAD.

[PearL]

Rob wrote:
> Really? I always believed that with most of us, BTE was only a short step
> behind LMO.

BLASTPHEMER!!! ; ) LMO is my favorite Amy album. It is NOTHING like
BTE... in my opinion, of course. : )

[Rob]

I don't like the ST album either, but I believe HOL is the worst.

"PearL" <bstn...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1158963171.0...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

[Arald]

Rob wrote:
>
> Really? I always believed that with most of us, BTE was only a short step
> behind LMO.

No way!! Lead Me On is brilliant, BTE is trash (at least in my opinion)
and so extremely depressing, Don't want to listen to it one time.

[Covenant]

"Rob" <rfl...@mchsi.com> wrote in message

news:J0ZQg.63989$aJ.23413@attbi_s21...

> Really? I always believed that with most of us, BTE was only a short step
> behind LMO.

I think BTO is certainly a more adult product.

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> I think BTO is certainly a more adult product.

??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.

[PearL]

haha Arald... I think "trash" is a bit harsh for BTE. However that
phrase is appropriate about ST. ; )

[Arald]

I didn't get Covenant's comment either. How do you define a more adult
product? I wanted to add something else but since I don't stand behind
that view and I don't want to start something I didn't write down what
crossed my brain.

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>
> > No way!! Lead Me On is brilliant, BTE is trash (at least in my opinion)
> > and so extremely depressing, Don't want to listen to it one time.
>
> haha Arald... I think "trash" is a bit harsh for BTE. However that
> phrase is appropriate about ST. ; )

Hey, Simple Things is not Amy's best release but it's okay and so I play
it so once in a while. Since I play Simple Things sometimes it's not a
waste of plastic while I can't say that about Behind The Eyes. Behind
Your eyes you can find your brain but mine has never been as dark as the
stuff on Behind The Eyes so I geuss my eyes let more light pass through.

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45165766...@arald.com...

>
>
> PearL wrote:
>>
>> Covenant wrote:
>> > I think BTO is certainly a more adult product.
>>
>> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
>> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
>
> I didn't get Covenant's comment either.

Very Simple....

Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....

BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...

It's just that simple...

[MrWonderful]

I like Behind the Eyes even better than Lead Me On, Every Which Way But
Loose, and all Her others.
You're crazy as *tits*~! hahahahaha : ) Lala

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> >> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
> >> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
> >
> > I didn't get Covenant's comment either.
>
> Very Simple....
>
> Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....
>
> BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...

???? This is not making any sense for me. What definition of "more
adult" in respect with music are you using?

BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
hav eto be dark. It can be joy like on HOL/HIM as well (and lets hope it
is for most).

[jenj...@aol.com]

There is NO WAY BTE even comes close to the quality of LMO.
LMO was a trailblazer in CCM and it's one of the best written/produced
albums ever!

I was turned off from BTE when I read that after Gary had heard that
Amy was going to put Cry a River on the album (the song that she wrote
about Vince but denied it for years..until recently) Gary begged her
out of respect for him and their children that she not put Cry A RIver
on the album. Amy said it was going on the album and that's that. Gary
was devastated that while she was married to him, that she put a song
she' d written about Vince on this album.

Anyways, that's not the ONLY reason I don't like BTE but one of the
reasons I don't. That and the album is just depressing as sin.

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:4516D444...@arald.com...

> Covenant wrote:
>>
>> >> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
>> >> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
>> >
>> > I didn't get Covenant's comment either.
>>
>> Very Simple....
>>
>> Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....
>>
>> BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...

> ???? This is not making any sense for me. What definition of "more
> adult" in respect with music are you using?

Odd, cos I don;t understand what you're not understanding.

> BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> hav eto be dark.

No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.
Hence as a *darker* album (IE one with content to be appreciated mostly by
adults) your comment actually *makes* my point.

...and *dark* is rarely related to bubblegum pop...

If you don't get it, I guess you don't get it.

[Covenant]

<jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> That and the album is just depressing as sin.

and AS such,, is more *adult*...

[fran...@yahoo.com]

PearL wrote:
>
> Anyway, this is just one more thing in a long list of things that have
> slowly over time turned me off to her. It's unfortunate, but I've
> actually grown to dislike her over the past 10 years.... personality
> wise and musically. I wont get into the "personality" reasons cause
> there's no point... but even her music for the past 12 yrs has been
> crap, ***IMO***. I've been sticking around as a "fan" since HOL, just
> hoping she'd come out with something that moved me, but for the most
> part, her music (1994- present) does nothing for me. Since HOL there
> have been maybe 2-3 songs I like "ok", but nothing that makes me go...
> wow, *there's* the Amy I know and love. I havent purchased her last 3-4
> albums, and even worse.... I havent even felt "drawn" to listen to
> *any* of her music in years. It's kind of sad in a way, because for the
> longest time, she was my favorite artist of all time. Oh well. Life
> goes on.
>

I know, Pearl....I feel exactly the same about Amy. The magic is long
gone, and the only reason I still lurk here is because the posters,
both present and past, are some of the best on Usenet -- people like
yourself, AE, Amy K, faience/nickelshrink, Cov, Can, Zombie, Maggie,
Rose, Ed Rock, and many others. Obviously a lot of disagreements, but
there is sort of a humorous camaraderie here like I have seen in no
other group. I do pine for the mid-80s, though, in a large part because
I loved Amy's music of that period.

Frank

[MrWonderful]

It's my buddy, *Frank*~! How the heck are you~!?
I'm in such a mood, I don't even mind you being nice to Pearl~!
hahahahaha
I just got off the phone with a friend from the 70's and leaving a
message for Amy's bro-in-law, another from the 70's; so don't get all
maudlin on us about the good ol' days~! hahahahaha
I love those fellers even if one of them hadn't been my avenue to cop a
feel off Amy~! hahahahahahahahaha
We can live w/o the future, but to take our past *really* messes w/us~!
(a proven psychological fact)

Anywho, I'll te'ya what got Amy all mixed up was that vince, who is a
really great boy, but ain't carrying the burden of satisfying our
*Amy*~!
Here's where Arald is wrong about BTE: The *Torment* of garywho
produced tremendous thought in Amy~! She wrote from *deep* faith and
suffering~! She made tremendous music~!

Imagine Her all overloaded with the love and confusion that I bring to
Her bed and giving Her the daytime to consider the thoughts, but free
in the night to experience my protestations of love and tricks to get
Her~!

O-ooooh, what a *complete* woman She would be~!

Love all around~! Everyone kiss yourself~! hahahahaha
: ) Lala

[fran...@yahoo.com]

MrWonderful wrote:
>
> Anywho, I'll te'ya what got Amy all mixed up was that vince,

Don't get me started on that schmuck.

Now, back to *lurk* mode :-).

Frank

[jenj...@aol.com]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?

I'm not saying Vince is responsible but I do see a link to when her
music started going a little downhill and when she started hanging out
with him.

My advice to Amy...before you put out your next album, spend a few
hours with Gary over coffee.....maybe your music will get more
interesting...

I'm kidding y'all....relax

[fran...@yahoo.com]

jenje...@aol.com wrote:

>
> Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
> slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?
>
> I'm not saying Vince is responsible but I do see a link to when her
> music started going a little downhill and when she started hanging out
> with him.
>

Now, dammit, you've made me come back out of lurk mode already :-).

I certainly feel a connection between the Amy/vince relationship and
the flushing down the toilet of her music career. Everyone knows that
vince is a good musician in his own right, but his influence on Amy has
been detrimental IMO. Can't put my finger on it, but her music is no
longer interesting or inspired; it's just insipid (is that the right
word?) Of course, Bill (Gary Who?) will never admit it, but Gary
Chapman did one hell of a lot more for Amy's career than vince can ever
dream about (again, IMO).

Frank
(staying out of lurk mode for just a while longer .... this is too
interesting!)

[MrWonderful]

You and Jenjenmo are damn sure right about Amy's music being uninspired
since vince came around like a platonic, uninspired suitor, but gary
didn't inspire Her, the *torment* did~! Agony is great inspiration as
is love~! ZThat's where I come in, and I *do* mean *IN*~!

You have to understand that gary was *high* maintenance~! He had the
balls of youth and needed satisfaction, but was *not* the correct *man*
for Amy, insecure and intimidated by the inappropriateness of the
relationship, so *Amy* reacted by choosing a completely *lethargic* guy
which to the untrained eye of a female seems like the description of
"patience" as an ingredient of love in the Bible~!
Now, Amy carries the relationship with the lethargic vince which is
*completely* inappropriate in a marital arrangement~!
The *man* must carry the balls, but must also have the balls to carry~!
That's where *I* come in~!
I have the balls and the brains and the sensibility and the desire and
the intellect and the values to inspire Her to Her music and to
swallow~!
hahahahahaha
She would be *so* happy~! : ) Lala

[Bill Kawalec]

<jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1159152752.2...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> fran...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> MrWonderful wrote:
>> >
>> > Anywho, I'll te'ya what got Amy all mixed up was that vince,
>>
>> Don't get me started on that schmuck.
>>
>> Now, back to *lurk* mode :-).
>>
>> Frank
>
> Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
> slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?

just you

--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!

>
> I'm not saying Vince is responsible but I do see a link to when her
> music started going a little downhill and when she started hanging out
> with him.
>
> My advice to Amy...before you put out your next album, spend a few
> hours with Gary over coffee.....maybe your music will get more
> interesting...

gary who???????????????///

--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!

[Bill Kawalec]

<fran...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159153245.1...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

""admit it""???? can't admit to something that's not true. the PRODUCTION of
her pop records has gone downhill, but the songs are better than ever. GW
was not responsible for the superior production values.

--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!

>

[jenj...@aol.com]

>
>
> ""admit it""???? can't admit to something that's not true. the PRODUCTION of
> her pop records has gone downhill, but the songs are better than ever. GW
> was not responsible for the superior production values.

Um, Gary was a producer on a lot of Amy's records in the past, pre HOL
so actually he was partially responsible for the superior production
values of those albums.

Think LMO.Amy has even stated that LMO was Gary's album with Gary's
music.

[jenj...@aol.com]

And I'm not saying Vince is responsible solely for the downhill turn in
Amy's music, he is a talented musician and singer in his own right, but
it's interesting that since she started seeing Vince is when her music
took a downhill turn.

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>

> > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> > hav eto be dark.
>
> No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.

?? Where do you get that info?

> Hence as a *darker* album (IE one with content to be appreciated mostly by
> adults) your comment actually *makes* my point.
>
> ...and *dark* is rarely related to bubblegum pop...

But definitely not all adults are depressed (and I am glad they are). I
know enough adults who enjoy joyful music. It has nothing to do with
being an adult or not.

> If you don't get it, I guess you don't get it.

I don't get it because your statements are not making much sense. At
least they don't seem to hold for many adults (including myself).

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
>
> and AS such,, is more *adult*...

No, no!! Those are really not related at all. Wow, it looks like that in
your world everybody above 35 or so has to be dressed and in need of
very depressing music. I am glad you are wrong about this because else I
would end up getting depressed as well.

[Arald]

fran...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I do pine for the mid-80s, though,

I love the 80's!! Music was great back then!

[Arald]

jenj...@aol.com wrote:
>
> fran...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > MrWonderful wrote:
> > >
> > > Anywho, I'll te'ya what got Amy all mixed up was that vince,
> >
> > Don't get me started on that schmuck.
> >
> > Now, back to *lurk* mode :-).
> >
> > Frank
>
> Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
> slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?

I don't think there is a relation. I do think though that Amy a kind of
ran out of good idea's/triggers/inspiration for good songs.

> My advice to Amy...before you put out your next album, spend a few
> hours with Gary over coffee.....

I think a coffee (or better a beer) with AE will inspire her more for
some enjoyable music. I bet it would result in a new version of
"Politics of Kissing" ;o)

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45180F1F...@arald.com...

>
>
> Covenant wrote:
>>
>> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
>>
>> and AS such,, is more *adult*...
>
> No, no!! Those are really not related at all.

Yeah. They are.

Because CHILDRENS music is NEVER depressing, but ADULT music can be...

See? Easy huh?

[Covenant]

<jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1159152752.2...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> fran...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> MrWonderful wrote:
>> >
>> > Anywho, I'll te'ya what got Amy all mixed up was that vince,
>>
>> Don't get me started on that schmuck.
>>
>> Now, back to *lurk* mode :-).
>>
>> Frank
>
> Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
> slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?

Since day one I said so.

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45180E99...@arald.com...

> Covenant wrote:
>>
>
>> > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
>> > hav eto be dark.
>>
>> No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.
>
> ?? Where do you get that info?

From living life.

>> Hence as a *darker* album (IE one with content to be appreciated mostly
>> by
>> adults) your comment actually *makes* my point.
>>
>> ...and *dark* is rarely related to bubblegum pop...
>
> But definitely not all adults are depressed (and I am glad they are). I
> know enough adults who enjoy joyful music. It has nothing to do with
> being an adult or not.

Oh FFS.....

I DIDNT SAY THAT !!!
(Dear God, I'm havng a hard time believing your english is suddenly this
bad.)

>> If you don't get it, I guess you don't get it.
>
> I don't get it because your statements are not making much sense. At
> least they don't seem to hold for many adults (including myself).

My statements are making PERFECT sense.
Your comprehension, however has suddenly altered drastically.

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message
> news:45180F1F...@arald.com...
> >
> >
> > Covenant wrote:
> >>
> >> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
> >>
> >> and AS such,, is more *adult*...
> >
> > No, no!! Those are really not related at all.
>
> Yeah. They are.
>
> Because CHILDRENS music is NEVER depressing, but ADULT music can be...
>
> See? Easy huh?

No, we are adults and never play depressing music (BTE has been send out
of our home a long time ago) and we don't listen to children's music
either.

Children's music can deal with serious issues and so can adult music and
it doesn't have to be depressing. Age has nothing to do with it.

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>

> My statements are making PERFECT sense.

Not to me. Your logic is not correct on this.

No big deal but your logic on this adult thing really escapes me and
yes, I have lived life so far (and have seen the good and the bad).

[fran...@yahoo.com]

Covenant wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me or does anyone else think the quality of her music has
> > slowly diminished since she started seeing Vince?
>
>
> Since day one I said so.
>

Yes, you did. I recall you saying her music had become "country-fied"
or "country-fried" (can't remember which); either one is an accurate
description of the music in the "Amy Grill" era :-). But it's more
than that -- there's just no spark left. Aside from the "tits"
comment, Amy has become -- dare I say it-- almost *boring*, both in
music and in personality. I guess that's a sign of "contentment". I
guess.

[Rob]

Well then yours is not a very realistic household, is it? No offense.

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45182283...@arald.com...

[MrWonderful]

hahahahahahaahaha I *love* this kind of stuff~!
: ) Lala

[MrWonderful]

hahahahahaahaha Good going, Arald~!
Imagine Amy drinking a nice frothy dark beer~! I'm sure I could get Her
to have 2 beers and have a burping contest with me~! *Maybe* I could
even get Her to pick lint from Her bellie button~!
hahahahahaha
I would get Her drunk and acting goofy, and I'd record it for all of
you~!
except for the sex parts~! : ) Lala

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45182305...@arald.com...

In which case YOU explain to ME how kid orientated bubblegum pop... and (to
use YOUR phrase) depressing music are the same thing.
Show me how BTE is aimed at CHILDREN more than it is at ADULTS.

Simple question.

The logic is perfect, it is your understanding that is flawed.

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45182283...@arald.com...

Oh dear Go din heaven (again)

YOU are the one who labelled "DEPRESSING" as being the main stay of BTE.

*I* am saying EXACTLY what you say above, IE..."serious issues"...
Issues which deal with the life of "grown up people"... In other words..
MORE ADULT...

(And you don;t GET that???)

So.. IF you want to tell me that children can listen to, understand and
FULLY appreciate the emotions and concepts BEHIND BTE, then go ahead...

But you'd be wrong.

Why? Because you seem to be latching your entire *debate* on the fact that
you think I am saying DEPRESSING equals ADULT.
I am not...

I am saying, In a nutshell, BTE is the most COMPLEX and PERSONAL album she
has produced.

(After all.. how can you say the line "I'll make you laugh at a broken
heart" is depressing???
How can you say "We'll turn this world around" is depressing?
How can you say "I will be your friend" is 'dark'?)

What the album IS, is open, honest, deep, meaningful, heartrending,
uplifting and (best of all) OBVIOUSLY autobiographical.
Is it her BEST?
Nope.

But it is the most personal, which deals with the feelings and situations
that only adults can truly understand.
(Maybe even only some adults in certain situations)... hence it IS her most
'adult'.
And if you don;'t understand that.. then fair enough, you don;t understand
it.
But dont; try and belittle my *logic* by telling me some nonsense about
'children's music can be dark', because that is NOT what I am talking about.

Tell you what.......

Baby Baby...
Nobody Home...

Which is *more adult* ??

(Answer that and stay trendy - Oh and don't try and redefine the
terminology, just try an honest answer.)

--
Covenant
A Man Suddenly Realising..... This Is NOT Arald He Is Talking To, Is It!?

[Covenant]

"Rob" <rfl...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:0zXRg.161938$FQ1.142114@attbi_s71...

> Well then yours is not a very realistic household, is it? No offense.

I....

No, I think I'll let Rob's words stand for themselves...

[Arald]

Rob wrote:
>
> Well then yours is not a very realistic household, is it? No offense.

?? Who are you to judge? And more importantly why not? Why is my
household not realistic? Just because we don't need depressing junk
music like the music on BTE? I don't think that qualifies as relevant to
judge whether or not my household is realistic. If so called adults were
in such need of the music on BTE it would have been a best seller but in
fact BTE didn't do all that well.

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> Show me how BTE is aimed at CHILDREN more than it is at ADULTS.

BTE is aimed at nobody as it didn't really sell all that well and nobody
(except a few people on this newsgroup) are still talking about it. It
did not really find an audience.

And your logic of adults having to listen this kind of music still goes
weak, very weak in fact!

> Simple question.
>
> The logic is perfect, it is your understanding that is flawed.

Wrong. Just because you are about the onlyy one on earth who likes BTE
doesn't make it adult music or doesn't make adults liking this kind of
stuff. Many adults I know who went through some sadness in life find joy
and hope in listening to more happy music

[Sam King]

Covy baby, I'm right there with you. Baby, Baby is fun... (I have all the
remixes and then some) but .. songs like Nobody Home... move you to think
about choices. Choices severe enough to foster the words "knock all you
want, but ain't NOBODY HOME!" -- BTE songs require thought! Most of HIM is
fun, light-hearted, wash-the-car music... I did say *most* - even HIM had
it's "adult" songs. Nevertheless, I think the argument is ridiculous. Both
albums were from different times in Amy's life. We should respect the
feelings and the emotions she was going through at the time of each. Five
years can change a lot of feelings.

Sam - It took years to turn my world around.

"Covenant" <covenantWITH...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:64%Rg.18633$aP3....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

> news:45182283...@arald.com...

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message
> news:45182283...@arald.com...
> >
> >
> > Covenant wrote:
> >>
> >> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message
> >> news:45180F1F...@arald.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Covenant wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
> >> >>
> >> >> and AS such,, is more *adult*...
> >> >
> >> > No, no!! Those are really not related at all.
> >>
> >> Yeah. They are.
> >>
> >> Because CHILDRENS music is NEVER depressing, but ADULT music can be...
> >>
> >> See? Easy huh?
> >
> > No, we are adults and never play depressing music (BTE has been send out
> > of our home a long time ago) and we don't listen to children's music
> > either.
> >
> > Children's music can deal with serious issues and so can adult music and
> > it doesn't have to be depressing. Age has nothing to do with it.
>
> Oh dear Go din heaven (again)
>
> YOU are the one who labelled "DEPRESSING" as being the main stay of BTE.

Yes, becaouse it is and more people in here have confirmed they find it
depressing as well. You can't deny that.

>
> *I* am saying EXACTLY what you say above, IE..."serious issues"...
> Issues which deal with the life of "grown up people"... In other words..
> MORE ADULT...

But serious issues don't equal to adult. Teen and child music can deal
with serious issues as well.

> (And you don;t GET that???)

Your logic is missing. There is also serious music children listen to
and serious issues doesn't mean it has to be depressing.

> So.. IF you want to tell me that children can listen to, understand and
> FULLY appreciate the emotions and concepts BEHIND BTE, then go ahead...

Neither can many adults. The reacord did not selk so there were very few
people who appreciated the emetions and concepts behind this album. You
have to accept that. There are far more people (even in the US, Amy's
home base) alone who persona;;y went through the same emotions and yet
did not buy this over depressing album.

> Why? Because you seem to be latching your entire *debate* on the fact that
> you think I am saying DEPRESSING equals ADULT.
> I am not...

Yes you do.

> I am saying, In a nutshell, BTE is the most COMPLEX and PERSONAL album she
> has produced.

And that is not true either. LMO was very personal as well

> (After all.. how can you say the line "I'll make you laugh at a broken
> heart" is depressing???
> How can you say "We'll turn this world around" is depressing?
> How can you say "I will be your friend" is 'dark'?)

You should not take line sfrom lyrics out of their context.

>
> What the album IS, is open, honest, deep, meaningful, heartrending,

You can leave out honest, deep, uplifting and meaningful.

It was not honest because as soon as it was released and the first
questions were asked Amy tried to hide behind lies that it was not about
this or that. It brings people down, at least it did for me and over the
years I have seen people say the same here so I would not call it
uplifting. Meaningful? I have never found the meaning in this album or
it should be that she wants to make other people depressed.

> uplifting and (best of all) OBVIOUSLY autobiographical.

> But it is the most personal, which deals with the feelings and situations

> that only adults can truly understand.

When it was released Amy a kind of tried to deny it was personal and so
she did not come across very mature (as an adult should be) and so the
content can never really qualify as adult.

> Baby Baby...

Like it or not but adults can have the feelings sung about in this song.
They can be exited and deeply in love and happy about it. The world is
not so dark.

[Arald]

Covenant wrote:
>
> "Rob" <rfl...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:0zXRg.161938$FQ1.142114@attbi_s71...
> > Well then yours is not a very realistic household, is it? No offense.
>
> I....
>
> No, I think I'll let Rob's words stand for themselves...

Rob's comment was a cheap shot. He has no right to judge nor does he
have any knowledge to say something about my household (like I have no
knowledge to say something about his)

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

> news:45165766...@arald.com...
> >
> >
> > PearL wrote:
> >>
> >> Covenant wrote:
> >> > I think BTO is certainly a more adult product.
> >>
> >> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
> >> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
> >
> > I didn't get Covenant's comment either.
>
>
> Very Simple....
>
> Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....
>
>
> BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...
>
>
> It's just that simple...

We werent talking about those albums. We compared it to LMO.

[PearL]

jenj...@aol.com wrote:
> Arald wrote:

> > Covenant wrote:
> > >
> > > >> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
> > > >> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't get Covenant's comment either.
> > >
> > > Very Simple....
> > >
> > > Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....
> > >
> > > BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...
> >

> > ???? This is not making any sense for me. What definition of "more
> > adult" in respect with music are you using?

> >
> > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always

> > hav eto be dark. It can be joy like on HOL/HIM as well (and lets hope it
> > is for most).
>
> There is NO WAY BTE even comes close to the quality of LMO.
> LMO was a trailblazer in CCM and it's one of the best written/produced
> albums ever!
>
> I was turned off from BTE when I read that after Gary had heard that
> Amy was going to put Cry a River on the album (the song that she wrote
> about Vince but denied it for years..until recently) Gary begged her
> out of respect for him and their children that she not put Cry A RIver
> on the album. Amy said it was going on the album and that's that. Gary
> was devastated that while she was married to him, that she put a song
> she' d written about Vince on this album.
>
> Anyways, that's not the ONLY reason I don't like BTE but one of the
> reasons I don't. That and the album is just depressing as sin.

I agree with everything you write above, Jen.

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >

> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
>
>
>

> and AS such,, is more *adult*...

Depressing does not equal 'adult'. In fact, teens usually suffer from
depression more than adults.

[PearL]

Arald wrote:
> > BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...
>
> ???? This is not making any sense for me. What definition of "more
> adult" in respect with music are you using?
>
> BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> hav eto be dark. It can be joy like on HOL/HIM as well (and lets hope it
> is for most).

I agree Arald.

[PearL]

Rob wrote:
> Well then yours is not a very realistic household, is it? No offense.

??? Why?? You think you have to be depressed or listen to depressing
things to be realistic?? My life is a downer enough on it's own, i dont
need to contribute to it by listening/watching to depressing
entertainment. And believe me when i tell you, I'm one of the most
realistic people you'll ever meet. Frankly I think people who
*purposely* seek out things that depress them, are just wallowing in
self pity.

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message
> news:45180F1F...@arald.com...
> >
> >
> > Covenant wrote:
> >>
> >> <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
> >>
> >> and AS such,, is more *adult*...
> >
> > No, no!! Those are really not related at all.
>
> Yeah. They are.
>
> Because CHILDRENS music is NEVER depressing, but ADULT music can be...
>
> See? Easy huh?

No. Because adult music can be *not* depressing also. I dont like HOL
or ST but i wouldnt classify them as "children's music". LMO is my
favorite album, and altho the tone of album is 'more serious' than say,
HOL or ST, I would not call LMO a depressing album... in fact, I find
it to be quite the opposite.

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> *I* am saying EXACTLY what you say above, IE..."serious issues"...
> Issues which deal with the life of "grown up people"... In other words..
> MORE ADULT...
>
>
> (And you don;t GET that???)

Of course there are some serious issues that adults can relate to that
children may not, but we werent even discussing that. Arald and I were
comparing the *quality* of LMO to BTE, and *you* jumped in and called
BTE more *adult*. Then when we questioned you on it, you switched it
and compared BTE to HOL, HIM, and ST and said BTE was more adult. Then
Jen called BTE depressing and YOU said.. "and that makes it more
adult". Now you're switching it again and saying you didnt mean
depressing, you meant more serious issues. But you still dont make
sense because all of the albums you mention address adult issues. HIM
has a song about child abuse on it for pete's sake. That is very
definitely a *serious issue*, which BOTH children and adults have to
deal with. And I'm sure I could think of other examples on the other
albums, but it's 3 am and my brain isnt functioning at full capacity.

> you think I am saying DEPRESSING equals ADULT.
> I am not...

LOL! YES you did! LOOK --->

[[ Covenant wrote: jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
That and the album is just depressing as sin.

and AS such,, is more *adult*...]]

> What the album IS, is open, honest, deep, meaningful, heartrending,
> uplifting and (best of all) OBVIOUSLY autobiographical.

Well, obviously it's your opinion that the album is all of those
things, cause I certainly disagree...but I digress...Correct me if I'm
wrong, but didnt someone here post that Amy herself said the album was
not about her life and was "just a bunch of songs"? Or was she
referring to ST?

> But it is the most personal,

According to who? According to Amy, every album she makes is about her
life circumstances at the time she is writing/recording it.

>which deals with the feelings and situations
> that only adults can truly understand.
> (Maybe even only some adults in certain situations)...

Er?? I still disagree. She sang Somewhere Down the Road to the kids at
columbine. I think they understood.

>hence it IS her most
> 'adult'.

ANd as I said in my first reply to you regarding this... why (for
example) is singing about being a friend (BTE) more "adult" than
singing about thinking of leaving your husband (LMO) ?

> And if you don;'t understand that.. then fair enough, you don;t understand
> it.
> But dont; try and belittle my *logic* by telling me some nonsense about
> 'children's music can be dark', because that is NOT what I am talking about.

lol He never said children's music can be dark. He said music does not
have to be dark to be "adult".

> Tell you what.......
>
>
> Baby Baby...
> Nobody Home...
>
> Which is *more adult* ??

Neither. Baby baby was about how much she loved her daughter, which I
think is an "adult issue".

> (Answer that and stay trendy - Oh and don't try and redefine the
> terminology, just try an honest answer.)

LOL He isnt redefining anything Cov, you are....as usual... lol
Sigh. Some things never change.....

[PearL]

Sam King wrote:
> Covy baby, I'm right there with you. Baby, Baby is fun... (I have all the
> remixes and then some)
>but .. songs like Nobody Home... move you to think
> about choices. Choices severe enough to foster the words "knock all you
> want, but ain't NOBODY HOME!"
> -- BTE songs require thought!
Most of HIM is fun, light-hearted, wash-the-car music... I did say
*most* - even HIM had
> it's "adult" songs.

I think the songs on LMO require thought and that was what the original
comparison was... BTE to LMO. And just my 2 cents... BTE does make me
think... about how unfaithful amy was to her husband, how untruthful
she was about the whole situation for years, and how most if not all of
her songs have completely lost all sincerity for me. Therefore, I can
barely tolerate listening to BTE, and ST just makes me want to upchuck.

[PearL]

Covenant wrote:
> "Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

> news:4516D444...@arald.com...

> > Covenant wrote:
> >>
> >> >> ??? I dont think you can get more "adult" than singing about slavery
> >> >> and the holocaust, or about when you came to accept Jesus.
> >> >
> >> > I didn't get Covenant's comment either.
> >>
> >> Very Simple....
> >>
> >> Look at HOL, Look at HIM, look at Simple Things....
> >>

> >> BTE is a more adult product than most of her recent releases...
>
>
> > ???? This is not making any sense for me. What definition of "more
> > adult" in respect with music are you using?
>
>

> Odd, cos I don;t understand what you're not understanding.

>
>
> > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> > hav eto be dark.
>
>

> No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.

LOL No it isnt. It may be what you personally prefer in the music you
listen to, but it doesnt make it more mature or more adult.

[PearL]

Arald wrote:

> Covenant wrote:
> >
>
> > > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> > > hav eto be dark.
> >
> > No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.
>

> ?? Where do you get that info?

Come on Arald, you should know by now that Cov is the authority on
...well just about everything. (at least in his mind he is) hahaha ;
)

> I don't get it because your statements are not making much sense.

lol That's because you are not well versed in "Cov-speak". Drop me a
line and I'll give you a crash course. I'm an expert. hahaha ; )

[PearL]

MrWonderful wrote:
> hahahahahahaahaha I *love* this kind of stuff~!
> : ) Lala

lmao AE ! You would be quite entertained by my family. We fight
constantly. It's all that hot Italian blood. hahaha ; )

[PearL]

fran...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > there is sort of a humorous camaraderie here like I have seen in no
> other group.

Hmm... i dont know if camaraderie is exactly the word I'd use, but
yes.. we do have some "interesting" people who post here ... ::glances
over at AE and Bill:::
hahaha ; )

[fran...@yahoo.com]

Yeah, I know "camaraderie" sounds kinda strange (particularly with some
of the flak you have personally taken), but in contrast to the rest of
Usenet, that is the best term I could come up with. Lord, in most of
the groups I used to frequent, no useful information is exchanged
anymore; just a level of name-calling that leaves me shaking my head.

Frank

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>

> We werent talking about those albums. We compared it to LMO.

Yes, and when Cov started about "more adult" I asked for his definition
of that. Many posts later I still haven't seen a definition of what is
"more adult" when talking about music.

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>
> Covenant wrote:
> > <jenj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1159129307.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > That and the album is just depressing as sin.
> >
> >
> >
> > and AS such,, is more *adult*...
>
> Depressing does not equal 'adult'.

Maybe you can convince him, I couldn't ;o)

> In fact, teens usually suffer from
> depression more than adults.

Teens, adults.... everybody has their struggles in life.

Also songs about the struggles and feelinsg don't have to be depressing.
You can look back at something and send out all the sadness but you can
also look at how to overcome the sadness and get your life out of it.
The first is often depressing while the later can make you feel better
because there seems to be hope.

[Arald]

Even though we have faced more than a fair amount of sadness we prefer
to look at the bright side of life. Life is too short to waste too much
time on sadness or listening to music that puts you down. I love music
witha good message. Songs like "Ask me" are meaningful and great ye not
depressing.

[Arald]

I didn't get Rob's comment and thought it was pretty much a cheap shot.
We face every aspect of life. The happiness and sadness and life can't
be more realistic than that. Yet I absolutely hate music that dresses me
like the music on BTE did.

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>
> No. Because adult music can be *not* depressing also. I dont like HOL
> or ST but i wouldnt classify them as "children's music". LMO is my
> favorite album, and altho the tone of album is 'more serious' than say,
> HOL or ST, I would not call LMO a depressing album... in fact, I find
> it to be quite the opposite.

Very well said.

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>
> Covenant wrote:
> > *I* am saying EXACTLY what you say above, IE..."serious issues"...
> > Issues which deal with the life of "grown up people"... In other words..
> > MORE ADULT...
> >
> >
> > (And you don;t GET that???)
>
> Of course there are some serious issues that adults can relate to that
> children may not, but we werent even discussing that. Arald and I were
> comparing the *quality* of LMO to BTE, and *you* jumped in and called
> BTE more *adult*. Then when we questioned you on it, you switched it
> and compared BTE to HOL, HIM, and ST and said BTE was more adult.

Like I said, I am still waiting for his definition of "more adult"

> Then
> Jen called BTE depressing and YOU said.. "and that makes it more
> adult". Now you're switching it again and saying you didnt mean
> depressing, you meant more serious issues. But you still dont make
> sense because all of the albums you mention address adult issues. HIM
> has a song about child abuse on it for pete's sake.

And that subject includes both children and adults...... Amy was at her
peak popularity at the time of that album and it was both adults and
younger people who bought it......

> That is very
> definitely a *serious issue*, which BOTH children and adults have to
> deal with. And I'm sure I could think of other examples on the other
> albums, but it's 3 am and my brain isnt functioning at full capacity.

There are so many examples (of songs bringing a serious issue to the
attention of people of all ages while not being depressing).

> Well, obviously it's your opinion that the album is all of those
> things, cause I certainly disagree...but I digress...Correct me if I'm
> wrong, but didnt someone here post that Amy herself said the album was
> not about her life and was "just a bunch of songs"? Or was she
> referring to ST?

I would not call BTE a bunch of songs.... I think it's plastic that
could have been used for better purposes ;o)

>
> > But it is the most personal,
>
> According to who? According to Amy, every album she makes is about her
> life circumstances at the time she is writing/recording it.

"This is the most personal" is what many artists say about their latest
release. I usually don't pay much attention to it and just listen to the
music to see if I like it or not.

> >which deals with the feelings and situations
> > that only adults can truly understand.
> > (Maybe even only some adults in certain situations)...
>
> Er?? I still disagree. She sang Somewhere Down the Road to the kids at
> columbine. I think they understood.

Columbine? Wasn't that the city of that tragic shooting at a high
school?

>
> >hence it IS her most
> > 'adult'.
>
> ANd as I said in my first reply to you regarding this... why (for
> example) is singing about being a friend (BTE) more "adult" than
> singing about thinking of leaving your husband (LMO) ?

or singing about child abuse on HIM or happiness on HOL?

[Arald]

PearL wrote:
>
> Arald wrote:
> > Covenant wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > > BTE is very dark musically and lyrically wise but adult doesn't always
> > > > hav eto be dark.
> > >
> > > No it doesn't HAVE to be... BUt it generally *is*.
> >
> > ?? Where do you get that info?
>
> Come on Arald, you should know by now that Cov is the authority on
> ...well just about everything. (at least in his mind he is) hahaha ;
> )

But he isn't the authority on giving the definition of "more adult" in
respect to music.

> > I don't get it because your statements are not making much sense.
>
> lol That's because you are not well versed in "Cov-speak". Drop me a
> line and I'll give you a crash course. I'm an expert. hahaha ; )

I will!

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45189C9E...@arald.com...

>
>
> Covenant wrote:
>>
>> YOU are the one who labelled "DEPRESSING" as being the main stay of BTE.

> Yes, becaouse it is and more people in here have confirmed they find it
> depressing as well. You can't deny that.

So WHAT !?

Did *I* say it was?
Noooooo... I said it was a More Adult album...

Don't get into a hissy fit because I won't accept the labels YOU have put
onto MY description.

Try and actually discuss what *I* am talking about.
And by the way.....
As we were discussing this, I thought I'd have a look at what others DID
think about the album....

http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Eyes-Amy-Grant/dp/B000002GOH

Hmmmm......
Kinda kicks you're view to the touchline doesn't it??

But then, you have freely admitted you only listened to the album once, and
no longer OWN it.
So... why should I even begin to concern myself on what you think about
it???

(Especially when you can't seem to seperate what I am actually saying
against what others (may) think about it.)

>> *I* am saying EXACTLY what you say above, IE..."serious issues"...
>> Issues which deal with the life of "grown up people"... In other words..
>> MORE ADULT...

> But serious issues don't equal to adult. Teen and child music can deal
> with serious issues as well.

Name one.
And, even if you CAN, tell me what is THE NORM for serious issues.

Child or Adult?
Choose... one is the norm, one is not... Which is it?

Hmm??
Well..???
Which???

Come on..!!!

>> (And you don;t GET that???)

> Your logic is missing.

Nooo.. Your perception is false.
Your understanding (as has been shown above) is based on an erroneous
precept of what you THINK I am saying.

The logic is simple.... Which IS USUALLY seen as being more Adult in
content...?
Pop Music?
Or Music which (for want of a better terminology) is darker and *real* and
focusses solely on the human condition.???

Again, easy question...

Want to try actually ANSWERING one of these for a change??

> There is also serious music children listen to
> and serious issues doesn't mean it has to be depressing.

Read this carefully....

I DID NOT SAY IT WAS DEPRESSING....... **YOU** DID.
And as I already showed, BTE is NOT depressing.
(Yet you tried to counter that with a pithy one line answer??
Nooooo... More on that below....

(To those who have actually listened to the songs on this album more than
once, (and indeed are even READING this) I apologise for the middle part of
this post.. feel free to skip it...)

>> So.. IF you want to tell me that children can listen to, understand and
>> FULLY appreciate the emotions and concepts BEHIND BTE, then go ahead...

> Neither can many adults.

That does not alter the fact that ALL children cannot.
MOST adults can, ergo... "more adult." Ergo... I was corect in my
description...

You are now practicing an attempt at sophistry... And it doesn;t work.

> The reacord did not selk so there were very few
> people who appreciated the emetions and concepts behind this album.
> You have to accept that.

Do I?????
Why is that exactly?
Amy's career was on the downslide long before BTE.
And BTE was not well marketed, in fact, I wouldn't be too surprise to find
her sales have been tailing away since HIM.

>There are far more people (even in the US, Amy's
> home base) alone who persona;;y went through the same emotions and yet
> did not buy this over depressing album.

Again, the use of that word...
I'm amazed you continually use it after only one listening....

>> Why? Because you seem to be latching your entire *debate* on the fact
>> that
>> you think I am saying DEPRESSING equals ADULT.
>> I am not...

> Yes you do.

Where?
Show me.
I'll wait......

Well...???

>> I am saying, In a nutshell, BTE is the most COMPLEX and PERSONAL album
>> she
>> has produced.

> And that is not true either. LMO was very personal as well

<sigh>
Yes, it was.
But BTE is MORE personal.........
(Get it?? MORE personal, not the ONLY personal album, not the one inque
personal album ever made by anyone on the word... just *more* personal...
with the rejoinder that it was also COMPLEX... Ya see?? Taken together... as
a pairing... MOST PERSONAL AND COMPLEX.)
Easy when it's spelled out, huh?

>> (After all.. how can you say the line "I'll make you laugh at a broken
>> heart" is depressing???
>> How can you say "We'll turn this world around" is depressing?
>> How can you say "I will be your friend" is 'dark'?)

> You should not take line sfrom lyrics out of their context.

What makes you think I did? The ONE example I use in an example of three???

Those other two are the song TITLES.....
Hence I am referring to the SONGS not single lines....

(Again, this is where your grasp of English lets you down in debate. You are
too *literal* a translator. You can't grasp nuances very well.
I do not say this as a slur, merely as an observation (of which the above is
a prime example), I would wager that 99% of the people who read the post
(all 2 of them) would say that they knew I meant the songs themselves and
not lines dragged out of context.. )

But you did...

Either that, or you are trying to use that as an excuse to IGNORE the fact
that they ARE uplifting songs by trying to deflect their message, by trying
to claim they are out of context.

Response???

>> What the album IS, is open, honest, deep, meaningful, heartrending,

> You can leave out honest, deep, uplifting and meaningful.

Can I ?
Why is that?

You tell me why it ISN'T the above.
(Or at least TRY to.. after only ONE listening (Soooo many years ago...) you
may find it difficult...)

> It was not honest because as soon as it was released and the first
> questions were asked Amy tried to hide behind lies that it was not about
> this or that.

;' )))))))))))

Ah but you see NOW you have actually shown what it is you are REALLY
protesting against...
Not what the ALBUM said, but what AMY did and said after it's release....

You are upset because, maybe, just maybe, AMY was less than truthful when in
discussion AFTER the alubm...

tsk tsk tsk...

That however, does not reflect on the album content itself ! (In fact, quite
the reverse, the ALBUM reflects upon her actions/behaviour AFTER it's
release... But it has no bearing on the album's itself...)

Which is very truthful.... (as well as open, honest, deep, meaningful,
heartrending and the others you snipped.)

> It brings people down, at least it did for me and over the
> years I have seen people say the same here so I would not call it
> uplifting.

Then read the link above and change your mind.

After all, you only heard it once, and thus (as you say above) have cemented
your opinion on those of OTHERS in here...
So, *I* am in here, and I refute that comment, and the link above gives
MORE...
So... I'll expect you to retract all of your claims then shall I ?

(noooooooo.)

> Meaningful? I have never found the meaning in this album or
> it should be that she wants to make other people depressed.

Really?!!?

How depressing of ***YOU*** !

Okay then....
What do you make of this....... (READ IT!)

When every moment gets too hard
End of the road can feel so far
No matter how much time we're apart
I'm always near you

I'll be the shelter in your rain
Help you find your smile again

I'll make you laugh at a broken heart

Wherever you are

'cause i'm never gonna walk away
If the wall comes down someday
All alone and you feel afraid
Be there when you call my name
You can always depend on me
I believe until forever ends

I will be your friend

So many people come and go
But nothing can change the you i know
You'll never be just a face in the crowd
And time will show

Through the seasons and years
I will always hold you dear
Never you fear
(chorus)

I'll be your rock when every candle burns down low
And i want you to know
(chorus)
(final chorus)

Depressing??????

Nooo.... (I call this one heartwarming)

What about this....What do you make of this....... (READ IT!)

It takes a little time sometimes
To get your feet back on the ground
It takes a little time sometimes
To get the titanic turned back around
It takes a little time sometimes
But baby you're not going down
It takes more than you've got right now
Give it time

Depressing?????
Noooooo..... (I call this one Honest)

(snipping for space now.....)

What about this....

We are all the same it seems
Behind the eyes
Broken promises and dreams
Our good disguise

All we're really looking for is some place
Safe and warm
The shelter of each other in the storm
Maybe one day
We can turn and face our fears
Maybe one day
We can reach out through the tears
After all it's really not that far
To where hope can be found
Maybe one day
We can turn this world around

Who can trace the path of time
Not you or me
The twisting road we call our lives
We cannot see
The hunger and the longing everyone of us
Knows inside
Could be the bridge between us if we try
(chorus)

Maybe one day
We can turn and face our fears
Maybe one day
We can reach out through the tears

Depressing???
Nooooo... (I call this one Uplifting)

What about this one... What do you make of this....... (READ IT!)

Why do lovers drift apart
How does love fade away
When do pieces of a broken heart mend again
You've been crying in the dark
And you've been feeling alone
Don't be scared of what you'll find
When you turn the light on

Ain't nobody gonna say goodbye
Ain't nobody gonna walk away
This time, baby, i'm learning how to love you, love you
Ain't nobody gonna make you cry
Ain't nobody ever really tried to love
Like i love you

What sad memory of yesterday
What terrible scar
Keeps you gathering pieces of
Your shattered heart
There was once upon a time
When hope was living within
I know there will come a time
When you can believe again
(chorus)

How long have you been feeling lost and lonely
How long have you been sad and blue

This time, baby, i'm learning how to love you, love you
Ain't nobody gonna make you cry
Ain't nobody ever really tried to love
Like i love you

This time, baby, i'm learning how to love you, love you
Let me love you, like i love you

Depressing???
Noooooo..... (I call this one Meaningful)

So.... There y'go...
Debate?
Naaahhh You can't can you !?
Because the WORDS speak for themselves!!!
And what they are NOT... is depressing !!
Hence, your view of the alubm is false, incorrect, and you are wrong to base
your debate on that viewpoint.

And the thing is.. I know that what you are thinking is...
"But those are not all of the songs on the album!!!"

And you'd be right, but they ARE on the album, hence the ENTIRE ALBUM (as
you are doing) cannot be described purely as *depressing*.
It shows not only that you never did truly listen to it, it also shows your
own predjudice towards the material PURELY because you do not like the
REASONS for it's existance...

In a nutshell...
Your insistance that the **I** am describing the album as *More Adult* than
any of her other works because it is DEPRESSING, is so FAR from reality...
well... it is almost comedic in it's ridiculousness.

>> uplifting and (best of all) OBVIOUSLY autobiographical.
>> But it is the most personal, which deals with the feelings and situations
>> that only adults can truly understand.

> When it was released Amy a kind of tried to deny it was personal and so
> she did not come across very mature (as an adult should be) and so the
> content can never really qualify as adult.

That is the MOST stupid coment I have EVER seen you post.
(No, I won't apologise for that. It's true.)

So.. because AMY (to your mind) didn't come across as mature AFTER the album
was released (in your own little twisted utopian world view...) then the
ALBUM she has made was ALSO not adult???

Craaaaazzzzyyyyy !!!!!

But hey... Just to show how much you HAVEN'T thought this through...
Let's take your reasoning and run with it shall we....??

Okay... the album IS OBVIOUSLY personal etc etc and thus More Adult in
Content.
(Otherwise you wouldn't be so upset by the folowing part...)

BUT Amy said it WASN'T personal and was thus (in your eyes) immature, so you
then say THE ALBUM ITSELF cannot be adult...

BUT, as has been seen, Amy wasn't wholy truthfull about why the album came
about...
So therefore it was TRUE that the album WAS personal etc...

Ergo... by YOUR reasoning... it IS ADULT IN CONTENT !!!

>> Baby Baby...

> Like it or not but adults can have the feelings sung about in this song.

No-one is denying that.... But children do not understand every litle subtle
nuance of divorce.
(No... they don't.)

> They can be exited and deeply in love and happy about it. The world is
> not so dark.

Oh yes it is...
It can be...

And if you are lucky enough to not have experience that darkness, then GOOD
ON YER!!!

But you are in the minority.

Regardless... that has NO BEARING AT ALL on the subject we are
discussing...
Just because adults can understand and appreciate does not mean children can
understand 'darkness' and all of the nuances to an adult situation. That is
why there ARE such definitions as Adult and Childish..... and THAT is the
crux of the debate...

<sigh>

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[Covenant]

"Arald" <ar...@arald.com> wrote in message

news:45189CE7...@arald.com...

Why not??
You do the same to Ms Grant, no?

[Covenant]

"Sam King" <swkn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SP0Sg.7061$6S3....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

> Covy baby, I'm right there with you. Baby, Baby is fun... (I have all the
> remixes and then some) but .. songs like Nobody Home... move you to think
> about choices. Choices severe enough to foster the words "knock all you
> want, but ain't NOBODY HOME!" -- BTE songs require thought! Most of HIM
> is fun, light-hearted, wash-the-car music... I did say *most* - even HIM

> had it's "adult" songs. Nevertheless, I think the argument is ridiculous.
> Both albums were from different times in Amy's life. We should respect
> the feelings and the emotions she was going through at the time of each.
> Five years can change a lot of feelings.

EXACTLY !!!

(Mind you.. this kicks Hopes out and out staement that *everyone hates this
album and finds it depressing* stance into a cocked hat!)

;' )

Do you mind if I quote you...
BTE songs require thought!
BTE songs require thought!