Cumbia, vallenato and salsa differences?
klre...@aol.com
Can anyone help me to find the differences between those three music styles and dances? I only have a vague idea (like salsa is smother)...
Once I was told on this NG here, that there ist no clave in cumbia. But on the latest Africando CD there is a song called 'Colombia mi corazon' wich clearly has clave - and (to me) it sounds like cumbia! So was the information I got wrong, or is that song not really cumbia?
Could somebody maby mention some really typical cumbias and vallenatos?
I'd like to include more specific definitions of those terms to my glossrayand give examples.
Thanks for any help,
Klaus
Klaus Reiter
KlRe...@aol.com
Homepage "Der Salsaholic"
German: http://www.rat.de/salsa
English: http://www.rat.de/salsa/index-e.htm
Ed Wolf
klre...@aol.com wrote:
: Can anyone help me to find the differences between those three music styles and dances? I only have a vague idea (like salsa is smother)...
:
Ok, Klaus here goes my try, but I'm sure people
will correct me if I'm wrong :)
Salsa: lit. means "sauce" and in my experience is used
two ways. One, a general term to refer to all types
of Latin music (which I find an abuse). In this usage
people can call a merengue a salsa tune, for example,
but I've even seen it used to refer to Gypsy rumbas...
Two, salsa is used to refer to the style of mambo
that was cultivated in N.Y. starting in the late 60s
that, in general, went for more romantic lyrics and
a softer horn sound, which has evolved to become the
more predominant style of mambo today. Of course, there
is a lot of middle ground here, and most people fall
into that.
Vallenato: actually refers more to an orchestration than a specific
rhythm. A traditional vallenato group consists of an
accordion, a scraper called a guacharaca, and a hand drum
called a caja vallenata. Vallenato groups traditionally play
four rhythms called son, paseo, merengue(6/8), and puya.
Check out the album Colombie:Le Vallenato off the Ocora
Radio France label if you can find it. Great liner notes!!
Cumbia: the most popular dance rhythm of Colombia and the one that
has been the most widely spread throughout Latin America.
Now, to solve your confusion, cumbia is not a clave-based
rhythm, but as with many rhythms can be played "in clave."
If a band that plays salsa wants to arrange a cumbia, they
will usually arrange it in clave, especially if they decide
to put in a mambo section. What this means is that the horn
parts and vocals will follow the "rules of clave" but the
rhythm section will play cumbia. This is OK because cumbia
is a one-bar rhythm that fits in nicely the clave's two bar
structure. A must get is both volumes of "Cumbia cumbia" off
of the Disco Fuentes label.
Ich hoffe, dass das hast du geholfen.
BTW, what gender is "salsa" in German (der/die/das)? :)
Eduardo
--
Juan Eduardo Wolf Greve
e-mail: wo...@toto.cse.nd.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "Porque ando por los caminos es +
+ porque soy caminante, +
+ y soy pueta y cantore +
+ porque canto y puetizo.." +
+ -El Temucano +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
George Rivera
Ed Wolf wrote:
>
> Ok, Klaus here goes my try, but I'm sure people
> will correct me if I'm wrong :)
>
> Salsa: lit. means "sauce"
So far it's right...
> ...................... and in my experience is used
> two ways. One, a general term to refer to all types
> of Latin music (which I find an abuse). In this usage
> people can call a merengue a salsa tune, for example,
> but I've even seen it used to refer to Gypsy rumbas...
"Salsa" is not used to refer to merengue. The term "Salsa" was used as
a marketing tag to refer to the Latin music that was being produced by
Fania. With the exception of Willie Colon the majority of the music was
a derivative of the Cuban son. The term "salsa" was never used to refer
to merengue.
> Two, salsa is used to refer to the style of mambo
> that was cultivated in N.Y. starting in the late 60s
Again, so far you're right...
> that, in general, went for more romantic lyrics and
> a softer horn sound, which has evolved to become the
> more predominant style of mambo today.
You are describing "salsa romantica"/"salsa monga", which starts in the
late seventies. The "salsa" of the late 60's through the late 70's is a
more powerful and upbeat music. The romantic lyrics were the
exception. Songs like Ruben Blades "El Numero Seis" and Barretto's
"Indestructible" were more in tune. The themes ranged from the
weekend's here, let's party with the mami with the red dress, to
politics, patria, and just pure bochinche. The romantic themes came
later to placate those individuals that felt the music was for the
ghetto folks.
--
Musically,
George Rivera
go...@earthlink.net
R.W.RAZON
In the mid-80's, I heard some recordings of songo/areito/nueva onda stuff
by presumably bands from Oriente,Santiago,Guantanamo,etc..(or so I was
told) I don't remember any names of the bands but one title sticks in my
memory..."Santiago Tiene Una Onda Nueva"..this was some great stuff...any
chance of it re-surfacing anywhere for us hungry nostalgic
aficionados..or even just identifying some of the bands perhaps?thanks.
klre...@aol.com
George Rivera <go...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Ed Wolf wrote:
>>
>> Ok, Klaus here goes my try, but I'm sure people
>> will correct me if I'm wrong :)
>>
>> Salsa: lit. means "sauce"
>
>So far it's right...
>
>> ...................... and in my experience is used
>> two ways. One, a general term to refer to all types
>> of Latin music (which I find an abuse). In this usage
>> people can call a merengue a salsa tune, for example,
>> but I've even seen it used to refer to Gypsy rumbas...
>
>"Salsa" is not used to refer to merengue. The term "Salsa" was used as
>a marketing tag to refer to the Latin music that was being produced by
>Fania. With the exception of Willie Colon the majority of the music was
>a derivative of the Cuban son. The term "salsa" was never used to refer
>to merengue.
I've also heard it used in that way. I don't think this is the correct meaning, but some people use it this way. Especially here in Europe.
Anyway, thanks to both of you.
Maybe someone give some more hints about good examples for cumbia and vallenato (how about Carlos Vives, for example?). I still hope to find one in my own CD rack...
Saludos desde el frio de Alemania,
Ed Wolf
George Rivera (go...@earthlink.net) wrote:
:
: "Salsa" is not used to refer to merengue. The term "Salsa" was used as
: a marketing tag to refer to the Latin music that was being produced by
: Fania. With the exception of Willie Colon the majority of the music was
: a derivative of the Cuban son. The term "salsa" was never used to refer
: to merengue.
Maybe I should have clarified myself here. I'm not saying that
I use term "salsa" to refer to merengue, just that sometimes
the term gets abused to refer to ALL latin music, including
merengue... Let's go with an example. In a recent issue of
Latin Beat magazine (Nov 96), there is a book review for
"Guia Esencial de la Salsa." On the cover of the book sit
three musicians, one playing an accordion, one playing a
guira and the third playing a tambora. This, as you know,
is the traditional set up for a merengue orchestra. The
book title says "Salsa" and the cover features merengue
musicians...the connotation is that salsa is merengue.
The same way that many people who are dabbling in Afro-Latin
music go to the bargain rack, buy one of those low cost discs
featuring the scantily clad woman and labelled "salsa" which
can be really salsa, or more often than not, a mix of whatever
that music company is trying to push: salsa, merengue or cumbia.
It comes, I think, as an attempt to market those people who
do not have an idea what this music is about an, in an attempt
to learn, pick up anything labelled "salsa." Unfortunately,
this results, as I said before, in an abuse of the term,
BUT a use nontheless!
: You are describing "salsa romantica"/"salsa monga", which starts in the
: late seventies. The "salsa" of the late 60's through the late 70's is a
: more powerful and upbeat music.
Whoops, you called me on this one George. Rereading my previous
post, I realize I kind of skipped this era in an attempt to get
at a more modern definition faster. I actually prefer this earlier
stuff as it pushes harder rhythmically. However, it is true that
for whatever reasons, marketing or otherwise, this style gave
way to the romantica one, at least on the commercial scene,
which unfortunately dictates how the majority of people use
language.
Que estais bien,
tom
>
The term "Salsa" was used as
>>a marketing tag to refer to the Latin music that was being produced by
>>Fania. With the exception of Willie Colon the majority of the music was
>>a derivative of the Cuban son.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw Willie Colon some years back at a free concert in Toronto. Really great
night. That was before I was listening to salsa with a mind to try and figure
out how to play it.
I'd greatly appreciate if a brief explanation of how Willie's and son derived
salsa differ. I think I did recognize that his music was different from the
other bands that also performed. There were some really nice things about the
times when I just listened to music.
Thanks.
Tom
George Rivera
as brazilian rhythms, jibaro seis, bomba, plena, and lots of other
things into the music back then. The others were basically into the son
and rumba (mainly guaguanco).