salsa in "Spanish"
Gerard Farrell
him to play some salsa in Spanish. When he asked what they meant they said
Spanish Spanish rather than Latin American Spanish. Would anyone care to
explain the difference to a gringo, and possibly name a Spanish salsa band?
Cheers,
Gerard
------
Dr. Gerard Farrell
Manchester Scientific Instruments Ltd
Campus Ventures Centre, University of Manchester
Oxford Rd, Manchester M13 9PL, UK
Tel: +44 161 934 0004 | E-mail: ger...@msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
Fax: +44 161 273 5111 | WWW: http://msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Castilian the pronunciation of "z" and "s" which are pronounced more like a
"th". In some Latin American countries/areas, i.e., in PR, Castilian is
sometimes used by older and/or educated persons but it is often taken by others
to by "high brow" or snooty and some make fun of its use.
I have heard that this is the result of a Spanish ruler in Castile who had a
lisp and everyone in the court began to pronounce with an affected lisp to show
respect and not to embarrass the ruler. Does anyone on the NG know if this is
true?
Gerard Farrell wrote:
--
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
My Home Page, last updated 09/17/98, includes my musical autobiography
(which includes many audio files of groups I worked with beginning in
the 1960s including rare recordings by Carlos Federico and early photos
including Celia Cruz and Pete Escovedo) and information regarding the
PC WIN95/98/3.0?/3.1? US-International Keyboard with a new large
printable U.S.International Keyboard image:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/1940
Mary Kent
MK
In article <3618f...@195.226.32.5>, "Gerard Farrell"
<ger...@infact-holdings.com> wrote:
> I was at a club the other night and someone came over to the DJ and asked
> him to play some salsa in Spanish. When he asked what they meant they said
> Spanish Spanish rather than Latin American Spanish. Would anyone care to
> explain the difference to a gringo, and possibly name a Spanish salsa band?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gerard
> ------
> Dr. Gerard Farrell
> Manchester Scientific Instruments Ltd
> Campus Ventures Centre, University of Manchester
> Oxford Rd, Manchester M13 9PL, UK
> Tel: +44 161 934 0004 | E-mail: ger...@msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
> Fax: +44 161 273 5111 | WWW: http://msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
--
VISIT THE SALSA TALKS WEBSITE! http://www.digido.com/salsatalks.html
If the rhythm is cookin', if the bottom half of your body starts jumpin'
because you have the urge to dance, there's a good possibility you're
listening to Salsa music!
--Mary Kent, photographer, writer, graphic artist of Digital Domain.
MARCANE
There are salsa bands in Spain, which makes them Spanish salsa bands however I
can not remember the names of any of them. In addition there are several
Cubans like Lucrecia who now live in Spain and have their own bands there so
would those be Spanish salsa bands? or perhaps Cuban-Spanish salsa bands?
But the post brings out a good point because when one says Spanish it should
always refer to Spain and or Spainards, therefore when asked if I am Spanish?
I always respond no, I am not Spanish although I speak Spanish leaving the
inquier almost always a non-latino, quite bewidered.....
This leads me to a point I had previoulsy mentioned in another thread, I do not
like the term hispanic because it is too narrow, Latin Americans are much more
than just hispanic because hispanics are those who are from either Portugal or
Spain, formely called Hispania where the term is derived and now reffered to as
Iberia.
Marcané is Arturo Gómez at...wdna@paradise.net
Yo si son de la loma pero estoy en el llano rajando la leña
Música es la mejor medicina
La verdad es la verdad....Más mentiras no quiero
It's OK to think, no one has to know
MARCANE
Mary Kent wrote.....Je suis perdu. How about some salsa in French?>>>>>
Oh but alas Mary there is. Fatal Mambo is a French salsa group with 2
releases. There is even a re-make of Eddie Palmieri's Adoración in French on
their 2nd album. The group hails from the south of France, the Meditterean, a
town called Montelplier.Look for them on the Tinder/Candela label.
MARCANE
Califa wrote>>>>>>I have heard that this is the result of a Spanish ruler in
Castile who had a
lisp and everyone in the court began to pronounce with an affected lisp to show
respect and not to embarrass the ruler. Does anyone on the NG know if this is
true?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have heard the same thing all my life and have asked several educated &
sophisticated Spainards about this legend who have all confirmed it to be true.
This ruler with the lisp is supposedely the same ruler who changed the famous
Spanish saying to. "me cago en diez" from its original harsher "me cago en
dios" (I shit in ten from its original I shit on god)
MARCANE
Marcané wrote:
>...I do not
>like the term hispanic because it is too narrow, Latin Americans are much
>more
>than just hispanic because hispanics are those who are from either Portugal
>or
>Spain, formely called Hispania where the term is derived and now reffered to
>as
>Iberia.>>>>
I never knew that, about Hispania. I looked it up and you're right. However, I
would assert that the accepted definition of Hispanic is that which is of a
Spanish-speaking culture or community, wherever located. My Webster's
Unabridged defines it thus: "Relating to Spain, its people or its
language...from Latin Hispania, or Spain(!)">>
Mike, muchas gracias for confirming my statemnent about Hispania, many folks
including Latinos of many backgrounds are unaware of that. If I am not sure of
something I write I will always say probably or maybe or about, mostly or
something to that effect. same with years if I am not sure I'll say circa or
roundabout..........
Hispania was once one country or rahter kingdom,, then 2 brothers fought over
the land and the more powerfull brother relegated his sibling to the fringes,
thus Portugal was born as was Spain. That is why the province of Galicia is
so similar, more so, to Portugal than Spain. Most people are unaware of the
roots of the more basic words, concepts and or history of the same...
Yambu1
Marcané wrote:
>...That is why the province of Galicia is
>so similar, more so, to Portugal than Spain.
>
summer. Last weekend, when he, Claytico and I were visiting with Mary Kent, he
told about singing a Cuban decima at the family table, and how one family
member recognized it as having local roots. Do I have it right, Felipe?
And while you're at it, tell the story of how you answered a challenge from
someone at a "decima put-down contest" there. A great tale.
-Mike Doran
Louis Head
the region. Then, the more well to do types started almost immediately to call
themselves "Spanish" in order to identify with the invaders. These same folks led
the charge to put the word "Hispanic" in vogue, not long after the Nixon
adminstration pushed it as a classification for all of Spanish language-related
descent for census purposes. Probably the most well known "Hispanic" these days out
of New Mexico is - Linda Chavez - who doesn't speak a lick of Spanish, but goes
around trashing bilingual education and Puerto Ricans, not always in that order. Go
figure.
Louis
MARCANE wrote:
> This leads me to a point I had previoulsy mentioned in another thread, I do not
> like the term hispanic because it is too narrow, Latin Americans are much more
> than just hispanic because hispanics are those who are from either Portugal or
> Spain, formely called Hispania where the term is derived and now reffered to as
> Iberia.
>
5mentarios
asi las formas: SA, SE, SI, SO y SU? Por que se limito a pronunciar mal las
silabas que contenian la Z, CE y CI????
--
Ricardo Portal
"el toro mata compa're, el toro mata"
MARCANE <mar...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981005173703...@ng114.aol.com>...
>
> Califa wrote>>>>>>I have heard that this is the result of a Spanish ruler
in
> Castile who had a
> lisp and everyone in the court began to pronounce with an affected lisp
to show
> respect and not to embarrass the ruler. Does anyone on the NG know if
this is
> true?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I have heard the same thing all my life and have asked several educated &
> sophisticated Spainards about this legend who have all confirmed it to be
true.
> This ruler with the lisp is supposedely the same ruler who changed the
famous
> Spanish saying to. "me cago en diez" from its original harsher "me cago
en
> dios" (I shit in ten from its original I shit on god)
>
>
Bruce Ishikawa
to sing in an English accent instead of an American one... -- Please visit
Picadillo! Bands, sounds, links, useful information http://www.picadillo.com
The web's largest collection of Latin Music Listen online!
In article <3618f...@195.226.32.5>,
"Gerard Farrell" <ger...@infact-holdings.com> wrote:
> I was at a club the other night and someone came over to the DJ and asked
> him to play some salsa in Spanish. When he asked what they meant they said
> Spanish Spanish rather than Latin American Spanish. Would anyone care to
> explain the difference to a gringo, and possibly name a Spanish salsa band?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gerard
> ------
> Dr. Gerard Farrell
> Manchester Scientific Instruments Ltd
> Campus Ventures Centre, University of Manchester
> Oxford Rd, Manchester M13 9PL, UK
> Tel: +44 161 934 0004 | E-mail: ger...@msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
> Fax: +44 161 273 5111 | WWW: http://msi.campus-ventures.co.uk
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Wallice
> I have heard that this is the result of a Spanish ruler in Castile who
had a
> lisp and everyone in the court began to pronounce with an affected lisp
to show
> respect and not to embarrass the ruler. Does anyone on the NG know if
this is
> true?
Not true... I was there at the time.
--
Wallice
http://ArsNova1.com - Your Texas Afro-Latin Music Connection
Wallice
>
> There are salsa bands in Spain, which makes them Spanish salsa bands
however I
> can not remember the names of any of them.
La Grande de Madrid?
Wallice
>I do not
> like the term hispanic because it is too narrow, Latin Americans are much
more
> than just hispanic because hispanics
Maybe when someone says "Hispanic" s/he really means "a member of one of
the Hispanic cultures of the world" ? Contrary to you, I think "Hispanic"
is too wide. When asked if I'm Hispanic, I usually say "Yes, Puerto Rican."
(but when I'm feisty, I usually ask, "does it matter?"). Either way, It's
usually not a big deal to me...
Wallice
Oooooohhhh, but be careful using "Latino," too.... Wouldn't that include
anyone who speaks a Romance language--including French, Italian, etc.?
Where's Jaqo when you need him?
MARCANE
Wallice wrote>>>>>
Oooooohhhh, but be careful using "Latino," too.... Wouldn't that include
anyone who speaks a Romance language--including French, Italian, etc.?
Where's Jaqo when you need him?>>>>
I agree completely with you, Latinos are much more than Spanish-speakers,
however between the 2 widely used terms(I hate all terms, they tend to divide),
I prefer Latina becuase at least it is correct since Spanish is a derivative of
Latin, I love speaking a romance language, it has great passion. English is
such a dull language yet it is THE language of the world especially for all the
technical stuff. One thing about English, even though it is the most conveluded
tongue, becuase it is made up of so many roots, it has the most vocabulary of
any language, at least that what the linguists say......
DNADJ
>There are salsa bands in Spain, which makes them Spanish salsa bands however
>I
>can not remember the names of any of them
El Combo Belga
*************************************************
Orlando Suárez (dn...@aol.com)
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4903/
Programmer / Host - Fusión Latina
WDNA 88.9 FM - Miami, FL
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
corathon!
Wallice wrote:
> Dennis M. Reed "Califa" <dmr...@home.com> wrote
> > I have heard that this is the result of a Spanish ruler in Castile who
> had a
> > lisp and everyone in the court began to pronounce with an affected lisp
> to show
> > respect and not to embarrass the ruler. Does anyone on the NG know if
> this is
> > true?
>
> Not true... I was there at the time.
>
> --
> Wallice
> http://ArsNova1.com - Your Texas Afro-Latin Music Connection
--
Songo Man
Gee, thorry Wallithe, I thand corrected. Thanks from the bottom of my
corathon!
>>
Dennis Reed and Wallice...I'm having a tough time picking the wife in this
relationship.
songoman
aj
> ... I
> would assert that the accepted definition of Hispanic is that which is
of a
> Spanish-speaking culture or community, wherever located.
Accepted by whom? It's been my experience that most people of Latin
American
descent refer to themselves as a son or daughter of their country of
origin or
ancestry, i.e., Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, etc.
> My Webster's
> Unabridged defines it thus: "Relating to Spain, its people or its
> language...from Latin Hispania, or Spain(!)"
By that definition, Australians, New Zealanders and U.S. citizens who
were raised
speaking primarily English can be logically referred to as "English." Or
maybe
even "British." Never mind that their ancestors may have come from
Ireland,
Poland, Italy, or wherever.
What it boils down to, IMHO, is this: do you define yourself, or do you
hand that
privilege over to others, who may not have your best interests at heart?
Anyway, that's MY two cents.
AJ
--
Albert Jimenez
ajim...@interport.net
http://www.users.interport.net/~ajimenez/
Yambu1
ajim...@interport.net wrote:
>Yambu1 wrote:
>
>> ... I
>> would assert that the accepted definition of Hispanic is that which is
>of a
>> Spanish-speaking culture or community, wherever located.
>
>Accepted by whom?
>
Accepted by the source I cited; viz., Webster's Unabridged - a rather
universally acknowledged etymological authority. Authority, remember, in the
sense that it records what the current and past word usage is and has been,
never what it deems it should be ( they're not L
>It's been my experience that most people of Latin
>American
>descent refer to themselves as a son or daughter of their country of
>origin or
>ancestry, i.e., Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, etc.
>
I'm not surprised . I happen to be of Irish descent, and I refer to myself as
such. But were someone to describe me as English-speaking, or of European
ancestry, I would know what they mean. I venture that were someone to refer to
you as Hispanic, you would know they mean that you are Spanish-speaking, and/or
that you are of a culture with at least some of its roots in Spain.
I then said:
>> My Webster's
>> Unabridged defines it (Hispanic) thus: "Relating to Spain, its people or its
>> language...from Latin Hispania, or Spain(!)"
>
And you said:
>By that definition, Australians, New Zealanders and U.S. citizens who
>were raised
>speaking primarily English can be logically referred to as "English." Or
>maybe
>even "British." Never mind that their ancestors may have come from
>Ireland,
>Poland, Italy, or wherever.
>
No it doesn't. Whatever you may think is logical, the fact is that non-British
people whose first language is English are referred to as "English-speaking",
never as English or British. You know that.
>...do you define yourself, or do you
>hand that
>privilege over to others, who may not have your best interests at heart?
>
I define myself, of course. And so will others define me.It's not a question of
"handing over that privilege to others". They'll do it anyway, because the
nature of language so dictates.
Don't you have a jumble of words to help you describe, say, a new Iraqi
acquaintance? Is Arab one of them? Are Sunni or Shi'ite others? Might not
ethnic Kurd be still another? Or how about non-Arab speaking Iraqi? Or Iraqi
Jew?
IMO, the word Hispanic is not particularly loaded politically, not that you
said it was. You or Marcané may prefer more precise definitions of yourselves,
but as you know the word is very much in use these days.
-Mike Doran
jacq...@my-dejanews.com
mary...@digido.com (Mary Kent) wrote:
> Je suis perdu. How about some salsa in French?
Il y en a de la Salsa en Francais.
JG
Stan Ginn
>
> Yambu1 wrote:
>
> > ... I
> > would assert that the accepted definition of Hispanic is that which is
> of a
> > Spanish-speaking culture or community, wherever located.
>
> American
> descent refer to themselves as a son or daughter of their country of
> origin or
> ancestry, i.e., Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, etc.
I hate to inform you, but the world doesn't know you as well as you know
yourself. Hispanic is simply a larger category than Puerto Rican, etc.
The Spanish-speaking world has certain things in common (like language)
which make them definable as a group. That group is very large and
diverse, and seem more so from the inside than from the outside. Many
American WASP's avoid even that much definition by referring to everyone
from outside of their neighborhood as foreigners.
> By that definition, Australians, New Zealanders and U.S. citizens who
> were raised
> speaking primarily English can be logically referred to as "English." Or
> maybe
> even "British." Never mind that their ancestors may have come from
> Ireland,
> Poland, Italy, or wherever.
First of all, I don't think that Hispanic and Spanish are the same
thing. Spanish does mean from Spain, which is a nation. As Arturo has
pointed out, Hispanic refers to the Iberian peninsula, and at least in
my head, is more of a cultural distinction than it is a national one.
All English-speaking peoples of the world can be lumped together as
Anglos, from the tribe that gave English it's name. I also think of this
as a cultural term. Thus if a person is a North American descendent of
polish immigrants, chances are they are more Anglo than Polish in their
cultural makeup. This is also happening to many "Hispanics" in the US
who are growing up in an English-speaking world and often not even
learning Spanish at all. One problem here is that they are still likely
to be labeled Hispanic because of physical attributes. The North
American mainstream is primarily North European (i.e. light skinned)
Most Hispanics are noticeably darker. As with other immigrant groups in
the US, sit back and watch that fade.
>
> What it boils down to, IMHO, is this: do you define yourself, or do you
> hand that
> privilege over to others, who may not have your best interests at heart?
>
As Mike said, they'll define you no matter what you hand them. Same
thing happens to us white folks. Try being an Anglo conguero, nobody
takes you very seriously at first.
Stan
aj
Stan Ginn wrote:
> I hate to inform you, but the world doesn't know you as well as you know
> yourself.
I'm well aware of that. I'm also aware that your tone is more than a little
condescending. I could be wrong; in fact, I hope I am.
> Hispanic is simply a larger category than Puerto Rican, etc.
I'm well aware of that, as well.
> The Spanish-speaking world has certain things in common (like language)
> which make them definable as a group.
Let's be clear: when most white residents of the US use the word "Hispanic,"
they're not referring to people living in "the Spanish-speaking world."
They're referring to people here in the U.S., many of whom speak English at
least as well as you do. Generally, people who use the word "Hispanic" are
not just referring to language.
> That group is very large and
> diverse, and seem more so from the inside than from the outside.
It doesn't seem to be so; it is.
> First of all, I don't think that Hispanic and Spanish are the same
> thing. Spanish does mean from Spain, which is a nation. As Arturo has
> pointed out, Hispanic refers to the Iberian peninsula, and at least in
> my head, is more of a cultural distinction than it is a national one.
I'm glad to hear it, but I fear that you are in a distinct minority in that
regard. Most people who use the word "Hispanic" are using it in the context
of an imaginary ethnic or racial group.
> All English-speaking peoples of the world can be lumped together as
> Anglos, from the tribe that gave English it's name.
Um...I have many African-American friends who would disagree strongly with
that.
> I also think of this
> as a cultural term. Thus if a person is a North American descendent of
> polish immigrants, chances are they are more Anglo than Polish in their
> cultural makeup.
Again, I think you're applying a highly idiosyncratic definition to that
word. "Anglo" refers to descendants of a particular European ethnic group,
quite distinct from Slavs, Germanic peoples, Celts, etc.
> This is also happening to many "Hispanics" in the US
> who are growing up in an English-speaking world and often not even
> learning Spanish at all. One problem here is that they are still likely
> to be labeled Hispanic because of physical attributes. The North
> American mainstream is primarily North European (i.e. light skinned)
> Most Hispanics are noticeably darker.
Yes, but having more melanin in your skin doesn't determine your ethnicity.
Many people of Central American descent are dark-skinned, but not because,
like me, they have African ancestors. In fact, the overwhelming majority of
people on this planet are darker-skinned that Northern Europeans; are they
all members of the same ethnic group?
> As Mike said, they'll define you no matter what you hand them. Same
> thing happens to us white folks. Try being an Anglo conguero, nobody
> takes you very seriously at first.
No offense, but that doesn't really compare to having someone assume you're
stupid, lazy or a criminal. And, in my experience, that is the underlying
implication when someone calls me "Hispanic."
What I'm saying is this: I resent being referred to as "one of them" instead
of as a "you." Especially when "them" doesn't really exist. I hope I'm making
myself clear; so much of this is highly subjective.
aj
as a bit didactic, or shrill, even. If I ticked anyone off, I'm sorry.
This newsgroup IS about music, not ethno-anthropology, after all.
Kvetcher2
Yambu1 wrote (in part)
Marcané wrote:
>...That is why the province of Galicia is
>so similar, more so, to Portugal than Spain.
>
Hoo, boy. Kvetcher's wife is from Galicia. He and his family were there this
summer. Last weekend, when he, Claytico and I were visiting with Mary Kent, he
told about singing a Cuban decima at the family table, and how one family
member recognized it as having local roots. Do I have it right, Felipe?
It is true that Gallego, the language of Galicia, is virtually identical to
Portuguese (a romance or latin-derived language, of course). Galicia is
geographically, linguistically, and culturally distinct from the rest of Spain,
due to its relative isolation in the extreme north-west corner of the peninsula
and its Celtic history. Gallegos are typically blond, and the bagpipes (gaita)
are heard everywhere.
I'm not sure I'm convinced by Marcane's synopsis of the historia of Hispania,
or the Iberian peninsula, but I'm no expert.
The argument over hispanic/latino (like the discussions over the proper term to
refer to persons of African descent) is one of those never-ending semantic
debates that has no real solution, due to the elusive nature of ethnic identity
and the resentments caused by past and present racist oppression. In my
environment, Latino/a is much preferred over Hispanic.
As for the decima I quoted, a family member recognized it, but she didn't say
it was local. I had picked it up in the soc.culture.spain usenet area, and I
was pretty sure it wasn't Cuban. It was pretty clever, it goes like this:
Admirose un portugues
que de su mas tierna infancia
todos los ninyos en francia
supiesen hablar frances
arte diabolico es
dijo moviendo el mostacho
que para hablar en gabacho
un fidalgo en Portugal
llega a viejo, lo habla mal
y aqui lo parla un muchacho.
>>>And while you're at it, tell the story of how you answered a challenge from
someone at a "decima put-down contest" there. A great tale.
It's a long story...took place in Havana, not Galicia, and I came out a champ
by the merest fluke. Some other time.
Thanks for bringing me in the loop, tho.
Saludos--
Felipe (Philip Pasmanick)
rumba clave: xooxoooxooxoxooo
son clave: xooxooxoooxoxooo
Kvetcher2
De acuerdo, pienso que es un mito.
Stan Ginn
>
> Stan Ginn wrote:
>
> > The Spanish-speaking world has certain things in common (like language)
> > which make them definable as a group.
>
> Let's be clear: when most white residents of the US use the word "Hispanic,"
> they're not referring to people living in "the Spanish-speaking world."
> They're referring to people here in the U.S., many of whom speak English at
> least as well as you do. Generally, people who use the word "Hispanic" are
> not just referring to language.
Well, you got me there, some people don't use language well. I guess I
just feel that the language isn't to blame, the people who misuse it
are. One point, the Spanish-speaking world exists in the US as well.
>
> > That group is very large and
> > diverse, and seem more so from the inside than from the outside.
>
> It doesn't seem to be so; it is.
>
So is Cuban music in all its varieties, but tell that to someone who
lumps it together with "all that other stuff they play in Mexico." If
you get offended at ignorance, you'll have a pretty rotten life. I'm not
saying be complacent about it, but getting offended doesn't help much
either. (I'm not sure that you were all that offended, it's hard to tell
on this damn machine.)
> > All English-speaking peoples of the world can be lumped together as
> > Anglos, from the tribe that gave English it's name.
>
> Um...I have many African-American friends who would disagree strongly with
> that.
Well can they claim to be free of the cultural legacy of the English?
African culture was systemically oppressed on this continent (America)
for a long time. Still is. What filled that void? Luckily there are
still traces of West African culture to be found in African-American
society, but they aren't very strong or pervasive. The English-speaking
Caribbean is culturally distinct from the Spanish-speaking. The real
challenge to broad labels like we're discussing could be to remember
that no individual belongs to only one such group, especially in the
Western Hemisphere. Culturally we each come from many places.
>
> > I also think of this
> > as a cultural term. Thus if a person is a North American descendent of
> > polish immigrants, chances are they are more Anglo than Polish in their
> > cultural makeup.
>
> Again, I think you're applying a highly idiosyncratic definition to that
> word. "Anglo" refers to descendants of a particular European ethnic group,
> quite distinct from Slavs, Germanic peoples, Celts, etc.
Again, this is a matter of cultural influence. Most Slavs who came to
the US many years ago abandoned their culture in order to fit in with
the neighbors. Like Mike, I'm mostly Irish genetically, but aside from
my last name which is an Americanized version of Guinness, there's very
little about me that's Irish.
>
> > This is also happening to many "Hispanics" in the US
> > who are growing up in an English-speaking world and often not even
> > learning Spanish at all. One problem here is that they are still likely
> > to be labeled Hispanic because of physical attributes. The North
> > American mainstream is primarily North European (i.e. light skinned)
> > Most Hispanics are noticeably darker.
>
> Yes, but having more melanin in your skin doesn't determine your ethnicity.
> Many people of Central American descent are dark-skinned, but not because,
> like me, they have African ancestors. In fact, the overwhelming majority of
> people on this planet are darker-skinned that Northern Europeans; are they
> all members of the same ethnic group?
To some people, yes. But then they wear sheets on their heads. But
seriously, you can lump physical attributes together and trace their
origins. You are right in that these do not determine your ethnicity. My
dictionary defines ethnic as "of or pertaining to a religious, racial,
national, or cultural group." So ethnicity can depend on any of those.
Usually it probably depends on which one makes you stand out or which
one you identify with, depending on who you ask. Thus you get your
Jewish Iraqi friend. That person belongs to both groups, one religious
and one national. I suspect that they could also be labeled as Arab
since that is a linguistic group.
>
> > As Mike said, they'll define you no matter what you hand them. Same
> > thing happens to us white folks. Try being an Anglo conguero, nobody
> > takes you very seriously at first.
>
> No offense, but that doesn't really compare to having someone assume you're
> stupid, lazy or a criminal. And, in my experience, that is the underlying
> implication when someone calls me "Hispanic."
I'm not about to get into who's-got-the-harder-life here. I am one of
the privileged class in many situations, but maybe not the ones I really
care about. In my position I am often assumed to be a wealthy bigot and
generally not interesting.
>
> What I'm saying is this: I resent being referred to as "one of them" instead
> of as a "you." Especially when "them" doesn't really exist. I hope I'm making
> myself clear; so much of this is highly subjective.
There would have to be far fewer people on the Earth if we wanted to
avoid being seen as "one of them" all the time. I guess we just have to
convince people one at a time. Or we could just smack 'em upside the
head!
I think you are making yourself clear, and I'm with you, but life's too
short to worry about more than your own corner of it. I don't people are
going to stop being stupid anytime soon.
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Stan
Wallice
this
> relationship.
Hey, why define it now? You certainly didn't...
MARCANE
Someone wrote>>>>>>I'm second-generation U.S.-born, and I didn't even learn
Spanish until
I was 13. My Spanish ancestors left the Iberian peninsula, as far as I
have been able to determine, more than 300 years ago. And a cursory visual
examination of me would lead anyone to conclude that I have at least as
much African blood in me as European. Does the label "Hispanic" still apply
to me?>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We could be 7th generation US born, we could be completly assimilated, we could
be ango looking, as long as we are Pérez, Rodríguez or López .....
we will always be spics in the united snakes of ameriKKKa..........
MARCANE
Felipe wrote:
I'm not sure I'm convinced by Marcane's synopsis of the historia of Hispania,
or the Iberian peninsula, but I'm no expert.>>>
felipe and I am not here to debate, I am willing to learn more about the
history. However it is written in encyclopedia's that before there was SPain or
Portugal there was Hispania. It is not my synopsis, that would be like you
saying that it was "my synopsis" that before México there was Aztlán. facts
are facts... Now as the the detaols of how exactly the breakup of Hispania
led to Spain & portugal could be explained in more deatils than jus
that 2 brothers disputed over the inherited land from their father.
jacq...@my-dejanews.com
>
> Um...I have many African-American friends who would disagree strongly with
> that.
>
Just out of curiosity. I am always amused by the PC term African-American.
Does it include:
1 -Former U.S citizens who become citizens of an African country ? 2- White
men of African countries (South Africa, Morroco...) who have become American
citizens ? 3- Do you use it to mean black ? (I'd like to rent an
African-American Tuxedo) 4- People originally from Africa but now citizens of
an North or South American country (not neccesarely the U.S ?)
If it's 3 the term is incorrect as a black citizen of an European country
isn't an American citizen so the term is incorrect. I've heard of people
ordering an: "African-American Russian" in a bar to avoid offending anyone.
Incendently, I consider the request that someone made to play something in
"real Spanish" to be somewhat offensive. It's not unlike the request of
certain English speaking Canadians when they tell certain Quebecers to "speak
white".
Similar comparisons:
To an American: Speak English not the horrible mish-mash from the colonies.
To a Quebecer: Speak French not Quebec French
The request that the original person made is like looking down upon Latin
American Spanish. Not unlike the statements that are sometimes made in Latin
America countries: "I am Mexican,Argentinean,Columbian etc... BUT I was born
in SPAIN).
Stan Ginn
Looks like you hit the nail right on the head there. Do like my family
did, change your name and take another step towards Wonder Bread.
Stan
Robert Melbo
"comemierdas" use such terms and, thankfully, they're in the minority. I
don't give them the time of day even if they could read a clock.
MARCANE wrote in message <19981008133218...@ng148.aol.com>...
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
dark a tan as possible! Were we attempting to deny our ethnicity or were we aware
that beauty is "skin surface"?
Stan Ginn wrote:
> MARCANE wrote:
> >
> > Someone wrote>>>>>>I'm second-generation U.S.-born, and I didn't even learn
> > Spanish until
> > I was 13. My Spanish ancestors left the Iberian peninsula, as far as I
> > have been able to determine, more than 300 years ago. And a cursory visual
> > examination of me would lead anyone to conclude that I have at least as
> > much African blood in me as European. Does the label "Hispanic" still apply
> > to me?>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > We could be 7th generation US born, we could be completly assimilated, we could
> > be ango looking, as long as we are Pérez, Rodríguez or López .....
> >
> > we will always be spics in the united snakes of ameriKKKa..........
>
> Looks like you hit the nail right on the head there. Do like my family
> did, change your name and take another step towards Wonder Bread.
>
> Stan
--
aj
jacq...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > Um...I have many African-American friends who would disagree strongly with
> > that.
> >
>
> Just out of curiosity. I am always amused by the PC term African-American.
> Does it include:
>
> 1 -Former U.S citizens who become citizens of an African country ? 2- White
> men of African countries (South Africa, Morroco...) who have become American
> citizens ? 3- Do you use it to mean black ? (I'd like to rent an
> African-American Tuxedo) 4- People originally from Africa but now citizens of
> an North or South American country (not neccesarely the U.S ?)
Just out of curiousity: why are you "amused" when a people choose to define
themselves, instead of allowing outsiders to do it? The way I remember it, the
term "African-American" did not originate with PC-obsessed, liberal whites.
AJ
Orlando Fiol
for people who come to this country and are too young o have developed
proficiency in their native languages and to learn English at the same
time. Ultimately, what we need here is for Americans to have some
bilingual education and learn some other languages, instead of some people
thinking that English is the only pertinent language in the world today.
Peace,
Orlando
Orlando Fiol
letters from the S's in words. As a fluent Spanish speaker but not a
fluent writer, I often trip up on that stuff and would probably welcome the
Castilian spanish to remind me where the soft letters come.
Peace,
Orlando
Stan Ginn
then it's good enough for our children!
Supposedly this is an actual quote from a superintendant of schools in
Arkansas I think in the forties or fifties.
Stan
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Stan Ginn wrote:
--
Kvetcher2
> Well you know, if the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ,
> then it's good enough for our children!
>
> Supposedly this is an actual quote from a superintendant of schools in
> Arkansas I think in the forties or fifties.
I think it was H.L. Mencken
Eoghan
(Kvetcher2) wrote:
> Stan Ginn wrote:
>
> > Well you know, if the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ,
> > then it's good enough for our children!
> >
> > Supposedly this is an actual quote from a superintendant of schools in
> > Arkansas I think in the forties or fifties.
>
> I think it was H.L. Mencken
Neither of whose parents were native English speakers.
+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+
Nzambimpungu a bubote wasa mukutuvanga!
MARCANE
> > Well you know, if the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ,
> > then it's good enough for our children!
> > Supposedly this is an actual quote from a superintendant of schools in
> > Arkansas I think in the forties or fifties.>
> I think it was H.L. Mencken>>>>>>>>
This is the same mentality that produced "nigra" for negro..........
in Miami crackers of the same mindset call Miami .....Mayama.......
they also quoted the bible(the curse of Ham) to justify slavery.....
thanked the missionaries for "civilizing those spear chuckers" etc
Once on WDNA a pea brain of this thinking said on the air,
"Thank God for slavery as we wouldn't have the Blues without it"
Stan Ginn
>
> > Stan Ginn wrote:
> > > Well you know, if the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ,
> > > then it's good enough for our children!
> > > Supposedly this is an actual quote from a superintendant of schools in
> > > Arkansas I think in the forties or fifties.>
> > I think it was H.L. Mencken>>>>>>>>
>
> This is the same mentality that produced "nigra" for negro..........
> in Miami crackers of the same mindset call Miami .....Mayama.......
> they also quoted the bible(the curse of Ham) to justify slavery.....
> thanked the missionaries for "civilizing those spear chuckers" etc
>
> Once on WDNA a pea brain of this thinking said on the air,
> "Thank God for slavery as we wouldn't have the Blues without it"
>
Or salsa. It's a strange, strange world.
Stan