What is a "Maruga" ?
Mr Kidlat
As written in the liner notes of Tumi Cuba Classics cd (Volume 3: Rumba),
pertaining to the "modern instrumentation" of rumba:
"..Modern instrumentation includes claves (wooden sticks banged together),
the cata or guagua (a wooden tube played with sticks), the *maruga (a metal
shaker)*..."
What is a "maruga"? the only metal latin percussion instruments I'm
familiar with are those merengue and cumbia guiro things. Are they talking
about those metal, sealed shaker tubes filled with sand or fine pellets/beans
whichever?
Oh, and while I'm on the topic of metal shakers...does anyone know what those
wrist-bound little shaker things are called, the ones on the cover illustration
of Muñequitos' "Oyelos de Nuevo" cd? Where can I find those? They remind me
of the tops of salt and pepper shakers. =) I've heard of some made from tiny
gourds but I've yet to know where to find either. Hey, now wait- are *those*
what they call Marugas? Hmmm.
MrK.
"Yo soy ....el ma-ca-la-ca-chim-ba...."
Leo Bueno
I always thought a maruga was a baby shaker or "rattler".
Terminator
Terminator wrote:
You have just touched exactly the word and the condition which led
to the Cuban embargo.
A "maruga" is a guy who doesn't pay his debts. When you say: "Cuida-
do con el tipo que es un maruga" it means: fraudulento, estafador,
mala-paga, falsificador o embaucador.
The thing started with a "maruga" whose name is Fidel Castro.
He didn't pay his debts to the Americans, he created fraudulent
laws to take away U.S. citizens' properties in Cuba. Of course...that
ended the business between U.S. and Cuba... That is called "embargo"
For many years, Castro didn't care about the embargo, he was recei-
ving massive help in rublos from Russia. But when communism in Russia
ended and kicked out all that help to Castro, now the old dictator
is bringing the subject of the "embargo" to justify the misery of Cuba.
First, he blamed the Americans for exploiting the Cubans, paying them
smaller salaries than U.S. salaries during the times of the Cuban Repu-
blic. Now, Cubans are paid misery salaries, Cubans are starving, with
the exception of the ones who receive dollars from relatives in U.S.
Who is the exploiter now that Americans have been gone for 37 years?
Now you should know what MARUGA is and the importance of this
term as source of all the Cuban disgrace!
Terminator
PJDIAZ
In article <3556F3...@bellsouth.net>, Terminator <te...@bellsouth.net>
writes:
>Now you should know what MARUGA is and the importance of this
>term as source of all the Cuban disgrace!
So, musically then, are you saying the maruga is something used only for
melancholy tunes?
(Just trying to get back to the gist of the thread.... before Martori drops in
and gives us 500 lines of how marugas were available to everyone B.C.)
Con~o... si aqui no se puede preguntar que con~o es una maruga sin....
bueno....
creo ya saben de que hablo....
Pedro
PD Leo... imaginate si hubieran preguntado que es una "perlana".....
omeg...@bellsouth.net
PJDIAZ wrote:
> PD Leo... imaginate si hubieran preguntado que es una "perlana".....
Meandome de la risa!
Aché,
Marcelo
George Rivera
Terminator wrote:
> You have just touched exactly the word and the condition which led to the Cuban
> embargo. A "maruga" is a guy who doesn't pay his debts. When you say: "Cuidado con
> el tipo que es un maruga" it means: fraudulento, estafador, mala-paga, falsificador
> o embaucador. The thing started with a "maruga" whose name is Fidel Castro.
> He didn't pay his debts to the Americans, he created fraudulent laws to take away
> U.S. citizens' properties in Cuba.
Restitution was in fact offered and the good ole US of A has rejected all attempts by
the Cuban Government to resolve this matter for the very beginning. Every other
country has accepted the Cuban government's offer of restitution, but the USA.
> Of course...that ended the business between U.S. and Cuba... That is called
> "embargo"
No, what ended business between both countries was that Fidel would not kowtow to the
almighty USA. The government of this country was the one that put Fidel in the
driver's seat, only it could not manipulate him like it did the Shah of Iran, and all
the other flunkies in the game. Do you really want to know who the real "maruga"
was? It was John F. Kennedy! That's right that great American whose bust probably
sits on some mantle in your home. Who disguised as a young, caring, devoutly
religious, family man crowned head mumbo-jumbo of this great society known as a
bastion of justice for all killed all those Cuban expatriates that attempted to get
back what was theirs. That's right, JFK. And when the going got tough his cojones
shrunk so much so that not even an overdose of viagra would bring them back out. He's
the "maruga" you should aim your hatred at. He's the one that shut the door...
--
Musically,
George Rivera
go...@earthlink.net
"Cuando Puerto Rico comprenda el valor de su folklore, luchará con mucha fuerza para
defender su honor." - Don Rafael Cepeda
omeg...@bellsouth.net
George Rivera wrote:
> Do you really want to know who the real "maruga"
> was? It was John F. Kennedy! That's right that great American whose bust probably
> sits on some mantle in your home. Who disguised as a young, caring, devoutly
> religious, family man crowned head mumbo-jumbo of this great society known as a
> bastion of justice for all killed all those Cuban expatriates that attempted to get
> back what was theirs. That's right, JFK. And when the going got tough his cojones
> shrunk so much so that not even an overdose of viagra would bring them back out.
Let the truth be known! You are 100% right George! JFK is THE reason the
anti-Castro Cubans lost the battle at Playa Giron (aka Bay of Pigs). He
promised air and sea support and then later reneged and left hundreds of
Cubans to be slaughtered. Also let it be known that many brave American
pilots also died after ignoring orders from JFK to retreat. They refused
to sell out the Cuban soldiers and gave their lives for them.
Aché,
Marcelo
George Rivera
omeg...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> George Rivera wrote:
>
> > Do you really want to know who the real "maruga"
> > was? It was John F. Kennedy! That's right that great American whose bust probably
> > sits on some mantle in your home. Who disguised as a young, caring, devoutly
> > religious, family man crowned head mumbo-jumbo of this great society known as a
> > bastion of justice for all killed all those Cuban expatriates that attempted to get
> > back what was theirs. That's right, JFK. And when the going got tough his cojones
> > shrunk so much so that not even an overdose of viagra would bring them back out.
>
> Let the truth be known! You are 100% right George! JFK is THE reason the
> anti-Castro Cubans lost the battle at Playa Giron (aka Bay of Pigs). He
> promised air and sea support and then later reneged
El canalla reneged while they were approaching and it was too late for anything else but
to die. Now that's a real mutha-shut your mouth...
> and left hundreds of
> Cubans to be slaughtered. Also let it be known that many brave American
> pilots also died after ignoring orders from JFK to retreat. They refused
> to sell out the Cuban soldiers and gave their lives for them.
>
> Aché,
> Marcelo
--
withd...@topgun.cinecom.com
>What is a "maruga"? the only metal latin percussion instruments I'm
> familiar with are those merengue and cumbia guiro things.
e' la GüirA
The güira and the guiro are two different things.
MARCANE
In the mid-60's, the IRS permitted all Cuban-Americans to declare as a
loss,(one time) the value of their confiscated property, this provision was
also allowed to all US companies who suffered losses when the government of
Cuba nationalized businesses, foreign and domestic.
Marcané is Arturo Gómez at...wdna@paradise.net
Yo si son de la loma pero estoy en el llano rajando la leña
Música es la mejor medicina
La verdad es la verdad....Más mentiras no quiero
It's OK to think, no one has to know
George Rivera
Completely wrong? Mira so bruto read the post and don't play with words! The only thing
Kennedy was brought up for was the fucked up invasion that never happened...
Terminator wrote:
> Terminator wrote:
> You are completely wrong Rivera!
> I do not sympathize with any of the Kennedys but you are totally
> confused about the history.
>
> Look at the news:
> Nov. 26 1959 Yhe financial policies of Cuba will now be set by
> Major Ernesto "Che" Guevara who was appointed President of the Natio-
> nal Bank of Cuba. Guevara replaces Felipe Pazos, regarded as a moderate
> in the Fidel Castro Cabinet. The new financial chief, an Argentine doc-
> tor, fought closely with Castro during the recent revolution and is
> considered to be Anti-American and a radical leftist. Guevara will also
> direct the industrial division of the Agrarian Reform Institute, which
> oversees the expropriating and redistributing of land and also forms
> various cooperatives. In Washington, the appointment is seen as detri-
> mental to U. S. Cuban relations.
> Nov. 26 1959 A new law was passed in Havana today. The Ministry of
> Labor can intervene in any business disrupted by striking employees.
> Feb. 4 1960 Havana Soviet envoy Mikoyan signs accord with Castro
> to buy sugar barred by U.S.
> Feb. 17, 1960 Ike approves CIA training of Cuban exiles to over-
> throw Castro government.
> Feb. 21, 1960 Havana places all Cuban industry under direct control
> of government
> March 4, 1960 Seventy-five to 100 persons are dead in Cuba after a
> French freighter loaded with ammunition exploded in Havana harbor today
> The vessel, named La Couvre, had docked and crew members were unloading
> her cargo, ammunition and explosives for the Cuban military when the
> blast oiccurred. A series of eruptions ensued. More than 200 people
> were injured. Castro hinted that foul play was involved and implied
> that the United States might be responsible.
> May 1, 1960 Havana: 250,000 in May Day protest rail against U.S.
> June 29, 1960 Cuban leader Fidel Castro ordered the seizure of the
> Texaco Company oil refinery at Santiago de Cuba after the plant's
> official refused to refine petroleum the Cuban government had purchased
> from the Soviet Union. Cuba and the U.S.S.R. have agreed on a pact
> wherein the Soviets witll trade their oil for Cuban sugar. A spokesman
> from Washington protested the seizure, saying it was "in contravention
> of the norms of conduct by responsible governments" Castro attacked
> a bill pending in Washington which would curtail U.S. Cuban sugar sales.
> In a speech before sugar mill workers, he assailed "Yankee imperialism"
> July 6, 1960 Ike cuts Cuban sugar imports by 95% for "deliberate
> policy of hostility towards the U.S."; totals $92.5 million
> July 8, 1960 Khrushchev threatens rocket attack if U.S. fights in
> Cuba, offers to buy 700,000 lbs slugar to make up for U.S. cuts.
> AUGUST 7, 1960 CASTRO NATIONALIZES ALL AMERICAN PROPERTY.
> American-owned property in Cuba has been seized by Cuban leader Fidel
> Castro in a dramatic retaliatory move against U.S. "economic aggression"
> American oil refineries, sugar mills, utility plants and other proper-
> ties worth hundreds of millions of dollars were nationalized with the
> force of the Cuban military. Castro said the action vindicates recent
> Eisenhower administration economic sanctions against the island-nation,
> particularly the Washington decision to reduce Cuban sugar sales to the
> U.S. The expropriated property will be compensaated with bonds over the
> next 50 years ar 2% interest, according to Castro. The premier also
> denounced all treaties with the U.S. He told a cheering crowd:
> CUBA DOES NOT FEEL TIED TO THE WARLIKE MERRY-GO-ROUND OF THE UNITED
> STATES"
>
> As you can see, Kennedy was not around... He was elected months
> later in November 9, 1960.
> Terminator
> Would you like to see the pictures of each of those news?
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> George Rivera wrote:
> >
> > Terminator wrote:
> >
> > > You have just touched exactly the word and the condition which led to the Cuban
> > > embargo. A "maruga" is a guy who doesn't pay his debts. When you say: "Cuidado con
> > > el tipo que es un maruga" it means: fraudulento, estafador, mala-paga, falsificador
> > > o embaucador. The thing started with a "maruga" whose name is Fidel Castro.
> > > He didn't pay his debts to the Americans, he created fraudulent laws to take away
> > > U.S. citizens' properties in Cuba.
> >
> > Restitution was in fact offered and the good ole US of A has rejected all attempts by
> > the Cuban Government to resolve this matter for the very beginning. Every other
> > country has accepted the Cuban government's offer of restitution, but the USA.
> >
> > > Of course...that ended the business between U.S. and Cuba... That is called
> > > "embargo"
> >
> > No, what ended business between both countries was that Fidel would not kowtow to the
> > almighty USA. The government of this country was the one that put Fidel in the
> > driver's seat, only it could not manipulate him like it did the Shah of Iran, and all
> > the other flunkies in the game. Do you really want to know who the real "maruga"
> > was? It was John F. Kennedy! That's right that great American whose bust probably
> > sits on some mantle in your home. Who disguised as a young, caring, devoutly
> > religious, family man crowned head mumbo-jumbo of this great society known as a
> > bastion of justice for all killed all those Cuban expatriates that attempted to get
> > back what was theirs. That's right, JFK. And when the going got tough his cojones
> > shrunk so much so that not even an overdose of viagra would bring them back out. He's
> > the "maruga" you should aim your hatred at. He's the one that shut the door...
> >
Terminator
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
While all of this shit was going on, were there any rumbas anywhere?
Terminator
Terminator wrote:
Rivera: I am using the last energy to be spent with someone who
does not understand anything of the Cuban situation. Is that all
you know of Cuba? That Kennedy accepted the responsability of the
Bay of Pigs failure?
You are the one to read the post and keep up with it. But as
you are not a Cuban and do not know what MARUGA means, definitely
you are OUT OF ORDER in here.
I am disgusted at myself for losing time reasoning with someone
who apparently is not able to do so. I gave you the facts and you
insist in a silly statement, possibly what you heard at a Partido
Independentista meeting.
I should have followed the Bible:
No echéis margaritas a los cerdos!
Terminator
PD. And Don Rafael Cepeda was wrong too. Puerto Rican folklore is so
poor that it will never be a source of energy to struggle for indepen-
dence. If that was the case, Puerto Ricans should start creating some
folklore of their own, enrich the danza and the bomba and don't go
around stealing other nation's folklore like in the case of the Cuban
"son" which was stolen by the MARUGAS auto-called salseros.
Marcelo Lecours
Terminator wrote:
> PD. And Don Rafael Cepeda was wrong too. Puerto Rican folklore is so
> poor that it will never be a source of energy to struggle for indepen-
> dence. If that was the case, Puerto Ricans should start creating some
> folklore of their own, enrich the danza and the bomba and don't go
> around stealing other nation's folklore like in the case of the Cuban
> "son" which was stolen by the MARUGAS auto-called salseros.
Holy Shit...here we go again!
--
***Support bacteria, it's the only culture some people have***
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
Mira Terminator, primero que nada no son "margaritas" sino perlas. Y ahora te digo yo a ti, no
te metas en lo que tú no sabes: música puertorriqueña. Y si te crees que lo único que se hizo
con la Salsa fue robarle a uds. tradiciones musicales que ni uds. mismos apoyan, pues, bendito
nene, tú no eres nada más que otro ignorante.
Carlos Calderon
You bet!! You see I assume that, like most of the world, cuban people
do not give a rat's ass about rulers, politicians and policies, so while the
stupid, power hungry politicians slice pieces of earth they will never
take with them, the people dance their lives away in the perpetual search
of happiness you won't find in any government building. Music prevails,
and in my book, this is something YOU DO take with you.
Filorumbeando....
calderon
Kplaut
uh-oh. hit the deck!
Terminator wrote:
<< And Don Rafael Cepeda was wrong too. Puerto Rican folklore is so poor that
it will never be a source of energy to struggle for independence. If that was
Dennis M. Reed
Only metal Latin percussion instruments!!! What about the cowbell and
what about the brake drums and pans used in comparsas?
Marcelo Lecours
Dennis M. Reed wrote:
>
> Only metal Latin percussion instruments!!! What about the cowbell and
> what about the brake drums and pans used in comparsas?
...and what about those tin cans full of pellets the Muñequitos have
tied to their wrists at times or that weird, 3 chambered metal rattle
that I've seen them use. What's that thing called anyways, where does it
come from?
Aché,
Marcelo
Mr Kidlat
Wow ...I come back barely a day later and I look at my post, and I have a
whopping 21 replies!! Little did I know that it would turn into a debate of
"historical" proportions, no pun intended.
Anyways, yes I do know of all the other metal instruments like cowbell and
hoe-blade and etc. ...but as far as something with a "shaker" sound, the only
thing I could think of were the metal guiros (or guiras, if I might be wrong),
which is even more of a rasp sound than anything. Then there's that sealed
metal tube I've seen which doubles as a guiro-type and a shaker thing since
it's filled with pellets or something.
>...and what about those tin cans full of pellets the Muñequitos >have tied to
their wrists at times or that weird, 3 chambered metal rattle that I've seen
them use. What's that thing called anyways, where does it come from?
>I actually got up and looked it up. Rebeca Mauleon's book saya that that
>metal rattle thing is a maruga or chacha.
....21 posts later! Muy agradecido! ...um, now if we can please turn
our books to page one in this thread, those tin can things ....those are what
I really want to get my hands on. I'm gonna try to make my own, actually
...but I wonder what kind of pellets I could use ...?
::::taking cover, wondering if the word "pellets" will stir up another
large debate of 20+ messages::::: oh no...
Thanks for the info nonetheless.
George Rivera
To my friends at rec.music.afro-latin, let me apologize to you all before I even respond to this
character. This response is not in any way, shape, or form directed at any Cuban (exile or
not), but at some dumd-ass moron, and that's not someone from Moron...
Terminator wrote:
> Terminator wrote:
> Rivera: I am using the last energy to be spent with someone who
> does not understand anything of the Cuban situation.
You know something, It's not surprising that you hide behind some alias. You must suffer from
no-cojones syndrome. You must also be some real dumb motherfucker to go around making
statements like this when you don't even know me. What the fuck do you know about what I
understand or don't? I'll tell you, jack-shit!
> Is that all you know of Cuba? That Kennedy accepted the responsability of the Bay of Pigs
> failure?
What's the matter? Not sure of yourself? You surely start off as if you know what the fuck
your talking about...
> You are the one to read the post and keep up with it. But as you are not a Cuban and do not
> know what MARUGA means, definitely you are OUT OF ORDER in here.
There you go again. I'm out of order? No, your out of order! Why the fuck did you post to
this ng, rec.music.afro-latin? You should have kept your lame ass over there at
soc.culture.cuba...
> I am disgusted at myself for losing time reasoning with someone who apparently is not able to
> do so. I gave you the facts and you insist in a silly statement, possibly what you heard at a
> Partido Independentista meeting.
The facts as your small mind, which is probably about the size of you dick, perceives them. And
let me tell you something you submissive piece of shit, if I ever was present at some
Independentista meeting it would be more than your sorry ass has ever done. Look at yourself,
hiding behind some fucking sorry-ass tag, you wouldn't ever know what it is to be independent
because your so caught up in your silly little make-believe world...
> PD. And Don Rafael Cepeda was wrong too. Puerto Rican folklore is so
> poor that it will never be a source of energy to struggle for indepen-
> dence. If that was the case, Puerto Ricans should start creating some
> folklore of their own, enrich the danza and the bomba and don't go
> around stealing other nation's folklore like in the case of the Cuban
> "son" which was stolen by the MARUGAS auto-called salseros.
You dumb motherfucking pimple, now your showing how ignorant you really are. Puerto Rican did
much to keep the music alive, just ask Juan Formell, Jose Luis Cortes, Frank Emilio Flynn, Pablo
Milanes, Silvio Rodriguez, and any other Cuban musician you can think of. What's that? Oh, I'm
sorry I should have known that you do not know shit about music or anything else. Well let me
tell you that Puerto Rico has it's own folklore and has done more for Cuban music than Cuba, or
it's exiles. And if it were up to the pil de mierdas like yourself there would not probably be
a renaissance of Cuban music today. Now let me tell you this, I couldn't give a good giddy-up
fuck about what you may think. Maybe next time you shouldn't lose any time. Maybe you should
just keep your comments to yourself. This way you'd keep your ignorance a secret...
Mr Kidlat
Stan --
Ah! I think I've seen those after all. Funny thing too, it did look a
little "rusted" ..or is that rustic, hehe ...really though it was pretty
tarnished looking. I think this was at this old drum store in Hollywood - I
just might have to go back there! Thanks for the info.
>I think you may be thinking of that LP contraption that tries to
>be a guiro and shaker.
Yah, I am. They're always at Guitar Center. It's fun to wallow through
their assortment of shakers and scratchers and tickers and tockers and
whatever, but I never buy from those guys. Hehe ...their drum section is like
a Romper Room for drummers!
MrK.
Marcelo Lecours
Stan Ginn wrote:
> What are you thinking? Do you want to bring this thread back to music?
> I actually got up and looked it up. Rebeca Mauleon's book saya that
> that metal rattle thing is a maruga or chacha. It apparently
> originated in the tumbas francesas. I know I've mainly heard it on
> Munequitos rumba recordings, but I didn't know the name until I looked
> it up. I've no idea what the wrist shakers are called.
Thank you man! I've been trying to find out the name of that instrument
forever! How ironic that it's the infamous "maruga"! I think the cans
are just called laticas con peloticas adentro.
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
Stan Ginn wrote:
>
>
> Mr Kidlat wrote:
>
>> Then there's that sealed
>> metal tube I've seen which doubles as a guiro-type and a shaker
>> thing since
>> it's filled with pellets or something.
>>
>
> I think you may be thinking of that LP contraption that tries to be a
> guiro and shaker. The maruga is much more, shall we say, rustic. It
> often looks kind of like this./\
> \/
> |
> or,
> /\
> \/
> <>-+-<>
> |||
> |||
>
> Wow, maybe I have a future in computer graphic design!!! Or maybe I
> better go back to palm-finger-slap-finger-palm......
forehead, nose, chin, palm-finger...
>
>
> Stan
>
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
Romper Room for drummers, boy that's good! Marcelo, go to your Romper Room and
play until your cayos bleed... damm it!
Mr Kidlat wrote:
> Stan --
>
> Ah! I think I've seen those after all. Funny thing too, it did look a
> little "rusted" ..or is that rustic, hehe ...really though it was pretty
> tarnished looking. I think this was at this old drum store in Hollywood - I
> just might have to go back there! Thanks for the info.
>
> >I think you may be thinking of that LP contraption that tries to
> >be a guiro and shaker.
>
Leo Bueno
On Mon, 11 May 1998 12:42:42 GMT, Terminator <te...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>Terminator wrote:
>
> You have just touched exactly the word and the condition which led
>to the Cuban embargo.
> A "maruga" is a guy who doesn't pay his debts. When you say: "Cuida-
>do con el tipo que es un maruga" it means: fraudulento, estafador,
>mala-paga, falsificador o embaucador.
My family uses the term in that context; I thought it was just a
famility thing, but obviously other folk use it that way also.
Robert A. Solera
------------------------------------
"Esta voz se aplica en Cuba a instrumentos sonoros muy diversos, particularmente
a los llamados sonajeros cuyo nombre no suele usarse en el lenguaje familiar
cubano. En Cuba se suele decir maruga a los pequenos sonaajeros con cascabeles,
como los que son juguetes de ninos; a los que son en forma de maraca de
lata, es decir con receptaculo metalico y sonoro en el que se encierran
corpusculos que percuten las paredes internas de aquel; y a los que son
como sistros con cascabeles, laminillas o plancuelas metalicas que entrechocan
al correrse de un lado a otro de las varillas en que estan ensartadas.
En Cuba, la voz maruga es tambien adjetivo, segun Pichardo, con el sentido
metaforico de "inutil", "despreciable" y modernamente "mal pagador".
From Nuevo Catauro de Cubanismos por Fernando Ortiz, primera edicion
en 1923 y luego reproducida en 1985 por la Editorial de Ciencias Sociales,
La Habana.
Mary Kent
George:
Your apology does not extend far enough.
I really admire your wealth of knowledge of the music, but when I hear you
talk in this way (I edited out the objectionable), it turns me off to that
knowledge and to you. Could you possibly make your response a bit less
aggressive so that we, who like to read your postings don't have the
unpleasant task of reading a bundle of negative emotions?
I think new posters should feel welcome, no matter what their background is
(except for those weird Stella reactionaries posting some NG's got sucked
into), if they are interested in Afro-Latin music. I thought Terminator's
response that included the newspaper citings with dates was interesting and
he took the time to respond when you made a blanket accusation of Kennedy,
without mentioning what exactly you were referring to. I saved it. I'll bet
Terminator like salsa. Agreed, a poster not divulging a real name makes us
defensive.
But attacking in such an aggressive manner is a way of bullying someone out
of a discussion. If someone spoke to me that way, I would not pursue
discourse with that person again. It has happened to me on this NG. Many
times, I watch by the sidelines.
Please, cool off and save your energies for SALSATHOUGHTS.
MK
In article <35591CC8...@earthlink.net>, go...@earthlink.net wrote:
> To my friends at rec.music.afro-latin, let me apologize to you all before
I even respond to this
> character. This response is not in any way, shape, or form directed at
any Cuban (exile or
> not), but at some dumd-ass moron, and that's not someone from Moron...
>
>
>
--
VISIT THE SALSA TALKS WEBSITE! http://www.digido.com/salsatalks.html
If the rhythm is cookin', if the bottom half of your body starts jumpin'
because you have the urge to dance, there's a good possibility you're
listening to Salsa music!
--Mary Kent, photographer, writer, graphic artist of Digital Domain.
Terminator
Terminator wrote:
De tus 1,086 escritos en el Internet, de los cuales 973 son a la
sección de música afro-latina, concluyo que no sólo abusas con exce-
sivos postings sino que te has llegado a creer que eres el "guru" de
este NG. A la larga todo cuanto haces es repetirte a tí mismo y mos-
trar tu admiración sólo por los "desafinados" y "contaminadores" ac-
tuales de Cuba, que no pasarán a la historia.
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz wrote:
>
> Mira Terminator, primero que nada no son "margaritas" sino perlas.
Primero que nada, no sé de qué biblia sacaste la palabra "perlas",
porque éstas no se comen.
Y ahora te digo yo a ti, no
> te metas en lo que tú no sabes: música puertorriqueña.
Cualquiera creería que tú sabes mucho de música de Puerto Rico.
En ninguno de tus postings has mencionado en absoluto a los grandes de
la música de la Isla del Encanto: Rafael Hernández, Pedro Flores,
Noel Estrada, Silvia Rexach, ni los grandes intérpretes Daniel Santos,
Bobby Capó, Mirta Silva, el Cuarteto Marcano, el trío Vegabajeño, la
Orquesta de Rafael Muñoz ni los cientos de populares grupos que han
existido... Para tí lo único que existen son los tambores y los instru-
mentos de percusión y tu única fascinación es el ritmo actual.
Jamás has mencionado al Maestro Ladi ni a Tito Lara, ni a ninguna de
las grandes orquestas de P.R. la de Juan Morel Campos, la Orq. Sombras
de la Noche, la de José Ruellan Lequerica, la de Simón Madera, la de
Somohano, la de Juan Peña Reyes, la de los Hermanos Millán, la Euterpe,
la de Manuel Jiménez (Canario), la Anacaona, la Orquesta Siboney de Pe-
pito Torres, la de William Manzano, las Estrellas de Oriente, la de
don Nacho, los Melody Boys, la Tropicana, la de César Concepción, la
Casablanca, la Panamericana, la de Noro Morales, la Orquesta Original,
grandes orquestas de las que P.R. sí que tiene que sentirse orgulloso.
Para tí Joe Valle, don Felo, Chucho Avellanet, Carmen Delia Dipini,
Tito Rodríguez, Plácido Acevedo ni Gilberto Monroig han existido.
Sólo andas detrás de los ladrones "salseros" desoyendo a Tito Puente
que aclaró muy definidamente que la salsa no es más que un son cubano.
Y qué de las decenas de intérpretes que me llevaría horas escribir
sobre ellos de Borinquen? De eso no hablas nada... Revisa tu Deja News
y verás cuán aburrido y repetitivo eres en tus 1,086 escritos tuyos
y concluirás que para escribir eso mejor no escribas nada...
Y si te crees que lo único que se hizo
> con la Salsa fue robarle a uds. tradiciones musicales que ni uds. mismos apoyan, pues, bendito
> nene, tú no eres nada más que otro ignorante.
El único ignorante que cree ser un genio en este NG eres tú, y
como le dije a tu amigo o "alter ego" no voy a perder ni un minuto
más de mi tiempo en esta inútil plática porque tú estás convencido
de que te las sabes todas.
Terminator
Wallice13
Terminator wrote:
>En ninguno de tus postings has mencionado en absoluto a los grandes de
> la música de la Isla del Encanto: Rafael Hernández, Pedro Flores,
> Noel Estrada, Silvia Rexach, ni los grandes intérpretes Daniel Santos,
> Bobby Capó, Mirta Silva, el Cuarteto Marcano, el trío Vegabajeño, la
> las grandes orquestas de P.R. la de Juan Morel Campos, la Orq. Sombras
> de la Noche, la de José Ruellan Lequerica, la de Simón Madera, la de
> Somohano, la de Juan Peña Reyes, la de los Hermanos Millán, la Euterpe,
> la de Manuel Jiménez (Canario), la Anacaona, la Orquesta Siboney de Pe-
> pito Torres, la de William Manzano, las Estrellas de Oriente,
Coñoooooooo, ahora si "que se cayo la plata." Este brother tiene
tremendo repertorio en su chola --my kind of list of "who's who."
BTW, Have you heard of Mingo y sus Whooppee Kids (seriously), supposedly
out of Ponce? It was mentioned here yesterday, but I still can't believe
they existed. Sounds like you might know.
--
Saludos,
Wallice
You know, that guy who DOESN'T know anyone famous...
****************************************************
http://www.arsnova1.com --The Texas Afro-Latin music connection
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
Mira broder, una vez más me topo con otro morón, puedo colocar todos los artículos que me de la real
gana, si no quieres leerlos obvialos. Yo no me creo nada, pero te metiste a hablar de cosas que
obviamente no conoces. Cualquier persona con dos o tres neuronas funcionales sabe que a la Salsa no
puede describírsele como una mera imitación o copia de la música cubana. Eso es camino trillado y tú
lo sabes muy bien. Esa fue la única razón por la cual intervine.
Terminator wrote:
> Terminator wrote:
> De tus 1,086 escritos en el Internet, de los cuales 973 son a la
> sección de música afro-latina, concluyo que no sólo abusas con exce-
> sivos postings sino que te has llegado a creer que eres el "guru" de
> este NG. A la larga todo cuanto haces es repetirte a tí mismo y mos-
> trar tu admiración sólo por los "desafinados" y "contaminadores" ac-
> tuales de Cuba, que no pasarán a la historia.
>
> Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz wrote:
> >
> > Mira Terminator, primero que nada no son "margaritas" sino perlas.
> Primero que nada, no sé de qué biblia sacaste la palabra "perlas",
> porque éstas no se comen.
> Y ahora te digo yo a ti, no
> > te metas en lo que tú no sabes: música puertorriqueña.
> Cualquiera creería que tú sabes mucho de música de Puerto Rico.
> En ninguno de tus postings has mencionado en absoluto a los grandes de
> la música de la Isla del Encanto: Rafael Hernández, Pedro Flores,
> Noel Estrada, Silvia Rexach, ni los grandes intérpretes Daniel Santos,
> Bobby Capó, Mirta Silva, el Cuarteto Marcano, el trío Vegabajeño, la
> Orquesta de Rafael Muñoz ni los cientos de populares grupos que han
> existido... Para tí lo único que existen son los tambores y los instru-
> mentos de percusión y tu única fascinación es el ritmo actual.
Mira, ¿por qué no inicias tú esas conversaciones? Hasta ahora, desde que intervengo aquí, que, de
paso no hace ni un año, se han iniciado pocas discusiones de música boricua. Yo no tengo que
probarle a nadie lo que sé, aunque me parece que hay que enseñarte un par de cositas pa' que
aprendas a respetar. ¿Qué quieres que te enseñe?
> Jamás has mencionado al Maestro Ladi ni a Tito Lara, ni a ninguna de
> las grandes orquestas de P.R. la de Juan Morel Campos, la Orq. Sombras
> de la Noche, la de José Ruellan Lequerica, la de Simón Madera, la de
> Somohano, la de Juan Peña Reyes, la de los Hermanos Millán, la Euterpe,
> la de Manuel Jiménez (Canario), la Anacaona, la Orquesta Siboney de Pe-
> pito Torres, la de William Manzano, las Estrellas de Oriente, la de
> don Nacho, los Melody Boys, la Tropicana, la de César Concepción, la
> Casablanca, la Panamericana, la de Noro Morales, la Orquesta Original,
> grandes orquestas de las que P.R. sí que tiene que sentirse orgulloso.
> Para tí Joe Valle, don Felo, Chucho Avellanet, Carmen Delia Dipini,
> Tito Rodríguez, Plácido Acevedo ni Gilberto Monroig han existido.
> Sólo andas detrás de los ladrones "salseros" desoyendo a Tito Puente
> que aclaró muy definidamente que la salsa no es más que un son cubano.
> Y qué de las decenas de intérpretes que me llevaría horas escribir
> sobre ellos de Borinquen? De eso no hablas nada... Revisa tu Deja News
> y verás cuán aburrido y repetitivo eres en tus 1,086 escritos tuyos
> y concluirás que para escribir eso mejor no escribas nada...
>
> Y si te crees que lo único que se hizo
> > con la Salsa fue robarle a uds. tradiciones musicales que ni uds. mismos apoyan, pues, bendito
> > nene, tú no eres nada más que otro ignorante.
>
> El único ignorante que cree ser un genio en este NG eres tú, y
> como le dije a tu amigo o "alter ego" no voy a perder ni un minuto
> más de mi tiempo en esta inútil plática porque tú estás convencido
> de que te las sabes todas.
> Terminator
No sólo estoy convencido, es que me las sé...
Mary Kent
Bueno, o eres Pancho Cristal, o Al Santiago ha ha vuelto de su tumba para
echar vaina. Cubano, muy al tanto de los quehaceres de la farándula de
Puerto Rico en los años treinta...quien será THE TERMINATOR??
Pero TERMINATOR, hay que reconocer las contribuciones musicales que el
pueblo puertoriqueño ha hecho y continua a hacer a la música Afro-Caribe
que llamamos salsa. La salsa está basada en el son, música cubana.
Terminator, gústete o no, hoy en día, la salsa ha pasado a ser patrimonio
del pueblo latino, no solo del cubano. Hoy en dia, hay tantos grupos por
todas partes del globo terraqueo que tocan salsa, que los cubanos se deben
enorgullecer de ese legado musical tan impresionante que han dado al mundo.
Nadie les quita el credito de la primicia, pero porque nos quieres quitar
el disfrute de la música que amamos? Porque nos acusas de hurto? No pudemos
tocarla si no somos cubanos? Celos, malditos celos, porque me matan, si no
hay razón?
MK
In article <355BA2...@bellsouth.net>, Terminator <te...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Terminator wrote:
>
> Cómo no voy a saber de Mingo y sus Whoppee Kids. Yo no había nacido
> todavía porque ellos hicieron su debut en Ponce a fines del año 1932.
> Ellos hicieron muy famosa la canción de Ascencio "Lamento de un Bori-
> cua" porque la escogieron para su tema de entrada y salida. Pasando
> el tiempo la vocalista de esta banda que era extraordinaria fué la que
> la siguió cantando y la grabó. Quizás tú conozcas a esta solista, que
> cantaba también música lírica y hasta cantó en Cuba en la opereta Ceci-
> lia Valdés en uno de los papeles estelares... Me refiero a Ruth Fernán-
> dez que por años fué la cantante de los Whoppee Kids. Durante los años
> 1934 al 1936 se convirtió en esta orquesta en una de las de moda de
> aquellos tiempos... Desgraciadamente, surgieron desavenencias y dife-
> rencias y eso determinó el fin de los Whoppee Kids al dividirse en 1938
> Una de las fracciones la constituyó Julio Alvarado, padre de Chago al
> crear la Orquesta Casino de Ponce donde siguió cantando Ruth y también
> Fatty (Alfonso Gómez). Esa fué una época gloriosa de la música puerto-
> rriqueña. Existía en aquellos tiempos ya la Orquesta que más ha durado
> en toda la historia musical de P.R.... la Happy Hills, que llegó a ser
> dirigida por una mujer (Pepita Nazario). Ese año del estreno de Mingo
> y sus Whoppee Kids fué cuando se inauguró con tremenda celebración el
> Escambrón Beach Club, donde se lucieron el Conjunto de Johnny Rodriguez,
> la Orquesta de Carmelo Diaz Soler (que mencioné anteriormente y Ralph
> Sánchez. Fué por allí donde desfilaron Corozo y Pepito, Pellín Rodríguez
> y Armando Ríos Araujo y se consolidó la orquesta de Don Rivero.
> También en esos años de los Whoppee Kids se le fueron los músicos a
> Don Rivero y se unieron a la Gran Orquesta de Rafael Muñoz que tanto
> grabaron y tanta fama internacional dió a Puerto Rico. Y si quieres
> te hablo de otras orquestas que surgieron entre el 1934 y el 1938, como
> los Melody Boys, la orquesta Pilot, la Snow White y la de Manolín Morel.
> Don Nacho apareció en el Condado y unj grupo de Mayaguez que (déjenme
> aclarar que no eran homosexuales como algunos pueden creer por el nom-
> bre) que se llamaban Gay Collegians (Los Alegres Colegiales) En esos
> tiempos no se llamaban "gays" a los homosexuales, sino queers, fagots
> y otros nombres más violentos. Esa época si fué brillante en la músi-
> ca de Puerto Rico, se tocaban piezas de boricuas y de todo el reperto-
> rio internacional y latino y como nunca en la historia la creatividad
> llegó a su esplendor a pesar de que estaba incipiente la invención del
> fonógrafo y no habían aún velloneras.
> Espero esta información te haya servido de ilustración.
>
> Terminator
>
> Wallice13 wrote:
> >
> > Terminator wrote:
> > >En ninguno de tus postings has mencionado en absoluto a los grandes de
> > > la música de la Isla del Encanto: Rafael Hernández, Pedro Flores,
> > > Noel Estrada, Silvia Rexach, ni los grandes intérpretes Daniel Santos,
> > > Bobby Capó, Mirta Silva, el Cuarteto Marcano, el trío Vegabajeño, la
> > > Orquesta de Rafael Muñoz [...] Maestro Ladi ni a Tito Lara, ni a
ninguna de
> > > las grandes orquestas de P.R. la de Juan Morel Campos, la Orq. Sombras
> > > de la Noche, la de José Ruellan Lequerica, la de Simón Madera, la de
> > > Somohano, la de Juan Peña Reyes, la de los Hermanos Millán, la Euterpe,
> > > la de Manuel Jiménez (Canario), la Anacaona, la Orquesta Siboney de Pe-
> > > pito Torres, la de William Manzano, las Estrellas de Oriente,
> >
> > Coñoooooooo, ahora si "que se cayo la plata." Este brother tiene
> > tremendo repertorio en su chola --my kind of list of "who's who."
> > BTW, Have you heard of Mingo y sus Whooppee Kids (seriously), supposedly
> > out of Ponce? It was mentioned here yesterday, but I still can't believe
> > they existed. Sounds like you might know.
> > --
> > Saludos,
> > Wallice
> > You know, that guy who DOESN'T know anyone famous...
> > ****************************************************
> > http://www.arsnova1.com --The Texas Afro-Latin music connection
Terminator
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz wrote:
> > > nene, tú no eres nada más que otro ignorante.
> >
> > El único ignorante que cree ser un genio en este NG eres tú, y
> > como le dije a tu amigo o "alter ego" no voy a perder ni un minuto
> > más de mi tiempo en esta inútil plática porque tú estás convencido
> > de que te las sabes todas.
> > Terminator
>
> No sólo estoy convencido, es que me las sé...
Terminator wrote:
Solamente un necio daría una respuesta como esa.
Los sabios dicen: Sólo sé que no sé nada!...
Pero... sigue durmiendo de ese lado...
Songo Man
I'll bet
Terminator like salsa. Agreed, a poster not divulging a real name makes us
defensive.>>
Wow. I'm starting to feel a little defensive, what with my screen name and all.
Paul "songoman" Paleologos
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
Estoy bien comodito en él, respondo a tu necedad con otra.
Terminator wrote:
> Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz wrote:
>
> > > > nene, tú no eres nada más que otro ignorante.
> > >
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
I thought that was you real name!
Terminator
Terminator
Terminator wrote:
Ustedes los puertorriqueños tienen mucho, mucho para gozar y dis-
frutar sin tener que meter la mano en la música ajena. Y es que a
los pobres cubanos, además de caerle la desgracia arriba de dictadu-
ras militares desde 1952 (primero Batista y después Castro), le han
caído en banda los que se suponía que eran pueblos hermanos para
ripiarse su música... Ahí tienes el caso de Méjico, los mejicanos se
han adueñado del mambo, que fué elaborado en Cuba por cubanos, Arcaño,
Cachao y Pérez Prado en distintas versiones. Perez Prado estuvo tocan-
do con la Sonora Matancera por dos años antes de irse a Méjico... Ta
bién han sido tan cara duras que han querido decir que el danzón es
de ellos, sin reparar que el danzén existe desde el siglo XIX (Failde-
Las Alturas de Simpson) en Cuba y que fué popularizado e introducido
en Méjico por Acerina y la Orquesta de Mariano Mercerón (los dos cuba-
nos) Por último han pretendido decir que el bolero es también de ori-
gen mejicano, citando a Agustín Lara, Toña la Negra y Pedro Vargas,
(gente toda de los treintas y cuarentas) sin reparar que desde 1885
se escribieron boleros en Cuba por los más grandes compositores (Villa-
lón, Pepe Sánchez, Manuel Corona, Sindo Garay, etc.) Y ahora desde
los setentas, le han querido cambiar el nombre al son cubano y ponerle
otro nombre... Tu robas un carro y aunque lo pintes y le cambies las
gomas... ese carro no es otro carro..es un carro robado...
Está bien que toquen todo el son cubano que quieran, pero no que
se lo atribuyan ni le cambien el nombre al género.
Ustedes tienen un caudal enorme de buena música. Mi pieza favo-
rita es puertorriqueña... la danza Violeta ( que es mi tema) y no te
digo más, porque ahorita doy tantos datos que me descubro.
Adiós.
Terminator
Wallice13
Terminator wrote:
>
> Terminator wrote:
>
> Cómo no voy a saber de Mingo y sus Whoppee Kids. Yo no había nacido
> todavía porque ellos hicieron su debut en Ponce a fines del año 1932.
> Ellos hicieron muy famosa la canción de Ascencio "Lamento de un Bori-
> cua" porque la escogieron para su tema de entrada y salida.
¿Estas seguro que no habias nacido? :-) ¿Como sabes toda esta
informacion? Siendo de Sabana Grande, yo conozco bien la Happy Hills (de
San German, bajo la direccion de Ramon Galindo por mucho tiempo) pero no
habia caido en cuenta de tantos nombres en ingles. Bueno, I stand
corrected about Mingo & Them... "la vida te da sorpresas..."
¡Gracias!
Pedro Martori
Terminator <te...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Terminator, lo unico que hacen los plagiadores es darle mas fama
y reconocimiento a los que crearon u originaron las piezas de arte
sea en musica como en cualquier otro arte. Mientras mas las hagan
populares, mas honor y merito dan a los que LAS CREARON.
Por tanto el dan~o o la mala impresion quienes se las ganan son
los plagiadores o imitadores.Porque con el correr del tiempo los
fanaticos llegan a conocer de donde, quienes, y como surgieron esas
piezas. Y entonces los plagiadores son despreciados o al menos
son calificados de estafadores intelectuales, impostores o
imitadores baratos...VIVA CUBA Y SUS GRANDES APORTES AL MUNDO DEL
ARTE.!
Como me acuerdo de un latino que en una reunion ,hablando conmigo
frente a varios extranjeros en el grupo dijo que el sabia hablar
aleman, y entonces hubo una chica que tambien decia que ella
lo hablaba ,pues estuvo varios an~os en Alemania, entonces al ver
que tenia dos personas que hablaban aleman, yo empece' a hablar
con la chica y le hice preguntas al latino en aleman...Este no
supo donde meter la cabeza ,si en un cubo o en un tibor !
Pues ni hablaba aleman ni ningun otro idioma que su espan~ol.
Quedo' como un mentiroso delante del grupo.Un atorrante pretencioso
e ignorante.
>Mary Kent wrote:
********************************************
Pedro Martori - Montreal, Qc, Canada
pmar...@globalserve.net
********************************************
Javier Antonio Quiñones Ortiz
I would like to acknowledge the fact that this entity, self-proclaimed "terminator,"
does know some things about Puerto Rican music, so I stand corrected when I mentioned
that he didn't know anything about the topic; which, by the way, makes his ideological
chauvinistic remarks against Salsa all the more irksome! As a matter of fact, that
would truly be an interesting thread: The perceived notion that Cuban music has been
"stolen." Watch out everyone out there, there are thousands upon thousands of thieves
out there! ¡Bendito! Chucho Valdés, Benny Moré, Juan Formell, and hundres of other
Cuban giants have asserted the valuable work done in and through Salsa. A concept/word
which has even been adopted by the Cuban musical intelligentsia. Congratulations on
your knowledge of music, shame on you for your cowardness and intellectual racism...