So, Where Do You Go To Calibrate
Scott Hendryx
I replaced the air shocks on my Nomad Saturday with some Progressive 421
series heavy duty shocks. Besides the shock not mounting properly without a
separately ordered spacer kit, when I went to torque down the shock mounting
nuts, the lower right side mounting bolt twisted off.....
Now instead of saving myself some money by doing my own shock install, I'm
gonna have to take it to the shop to get the swing arm shock mount
replaced...
Anyway, how would you go about calibrating a torque wrench?
--
--MoParMaN--
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
---Remove "Clothes" to Reply---
VROC-27911
2008 Vulcan 1600 Nomad
http://www.vroc.org/view_profile.php?user_id=32113
Sean_Q_
> A Torque Wrench???
1. Clamp wrench in vise.
2. Attach horizontal metal rod.
3. Hang known weight from other end of rod.
4. Measure rod length.
5. Do the math to compute known torque.
6. Compare to wrench indication.
Refinements for better accuracy:
* record wrench readout with horizontal unweighted rod
for use in step 5
* arrange for the unweighted rod to incline slightly so that
calibration measurement is taken when load rotates rod down
to the horizontal
SQ - Screw it. Let's ride.
'06 Zook S40 / '81 CB750 chopper / various derelicts and hopeless cases
Rob Kleinschmidt
<scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> A Torque Wrench???
>
> I replaced the air shocks on my Nomad Saturday with some Progressive 421
> series heavy duty shocks. Besides the shock not mounting properly without a
> separately ordered spacer kit, when I went to torque down the shock mounting
> nuts, the lower right side mounting bolt twisted off.....
>
> Now instead of saving myself some money by doing my own shock install, I'm
> gonna have to take it to the shop to get the swing arm shock mount
> replaced...
>
> Anyway, how would you go about calibrating a torque wrench?
I prefer a beam wrench myself, after one nasty
surprise from an out of calibration clicker.
One way to do this would be with an ordinary
and reasonably accurate bathroom scale. With
the wrench held horizontally in a vise, you could
compare the load reported by the scale and wrench,
multiplying as needed for the length of the wrench
handle. A ten lb. load or lift applied to an 18 inch
(1.5 foot) handle should generate 15 ft./lb. of torque.
A slightly more accurate method might involve
a fixed weight such as a barbell or just
measuring against another known to be
accurate wrench.
More than you ever wanted to know:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Mark Olson
> Scott Hendryx wrote:
>
>> A Torque Wrench???
>
> 1. Clamp wrench in vise.
Using the square drive.
> 2. Attach horizontal metal rod.
Unnecessary.
> 3. Hang known weight from other end of rod.
s/known weight/large bucket/
> 4. Measure rod length.
Fill bucket with water until wrench clicks or pointer points to a handy
number.
> 5. Do the math to compute known torque.
Ditto.
Or as Rob K. suggests, put two torque wrenches back to back using a suitable
12 point socket, easy peasy.
Scott Hendryx
Thanks,
Scott Hendryx
Thanks,
Rob Kleinschmidt
<scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
> >> More than you ever wanted to know:
>
> >>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=G...
>
> Thanks,
You're welcome.
So how did you manage to torque the shock bolt off ?
Backing off or tightening ? I've done worse, but I was
just sort of curious.
I generally use nylock nuts on my shock bolts and
never torque them down anywhere near hard enough
to snap stuff.
Datesfat Chicks
news:h4nj9p$a3n$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Anyway, how would you go about calibrating a torque wrench?
I have in total 3 torque wrenches--one medium-range beam, one medium-range
clicker, and one low-range clicker.
The best method I've found for a sanity check is just to use a socket or
group of sockets that allows me to connect the torque wrenches together. I
think I've found from experience that I have a socket or two that will
"grap" a 3/8 or 1/2 square output shaft from a torque wrench. Been a while
since I've done it, but I think I can link them up with only one socket.
Then, I put the fulcrum on my thigh and I tighten with the beam wrench and
note the reading when the clicker clicks. If the beam wrench isn't reading
the torque the clicker is set to when this happens, then I know I need to
look further.
And of course, there are NUMEROUS other ways to do it if you think about the
physics. I haven't read the replies carefully, but somebody will probably
suggest using a socket, a rod, and a weight.
Datesfat
Scott Hendryx
>> On Jul 28, 1:00 pm, "Scott Hendryx"
>> <scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>>
>>>>> More than you ever wanted to know:
>>>
>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=G...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>
>> You're welcome.
>>
>> So how did you manage to torque the shock bolt off ?
>> Backing off or tightening ? I've done worse, but I was
>> just sort of curious.
Well, I mounted the shock, hand tightened the nuts, then set my Clicker type
Craftsman torque wrench to 25 foot pound as stated in my manual. I tightened
the lower and uppper nuts until they were snug, then tried to torque them
until it clicked....It never clicked and then snapped the bolt off with
about 3 1/2 turns worth of thread left. I rode around like that this
weekend, but will have to get it fixed here soon.
>>
>> I generally use nylock nuts on my shock bolts and
>> never torque them down anywhere near hard enough
>> to snap stuff.
I was following the directions in the manual. I can assure you that the
nuta were not on that tight to begin with as it took very little effort to
remove all 4 of the nuts. I'm starting to wonder if the interpetation
between them metric bastards is off and it should have been inch pounds!
Sean_Q_
>> 1. Clamp wrench in vise.
>
> Using the square drive.
>
>> 2. Attach horizontal metal rod.
>
> Unnecessary.
Now why didn't I think of that? And then hang the weight from
the end of the torque wrench handle? However, he'll have to
take into account the weight of that handle, for which he'll
have to do some complicated integral calculus to integrate
the incremental torque contribution along the handle length,
which will involve Young's Modulus, the density of the metal,
the area moment of intertia and Planck's Constant.
SQ
'06 Zook S40 / various projects and derelicts
Scott Hendryx
I'm a fucking Texas red neck, that shit ain't gonna happen. I'll either pay
someone else to do it, or buy myself the most rediculously expenseive and
accurate torquing device out there. Or, since I work for a aerospace
company, I should be able to find something in one of the facilities....
Sean_Q_
> I'm a fucking Texas red neck...[and] I work for a aerospace company
You know you're an American redneck when the Shuttle Remote Manipulator
System (ie, Canadarm) makes a rude gesture at you. ;-)
SQ, Vancouver, Canada
'06 Zuk S40 / various derelicts & hopeless cases
Scott Hendryx
>> Scott Hendryx wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a fucking Texas red neck...[and] I work for a aerospace company
>>
>> You know you're an American redneck when the Shuttle Remote
>> Manipulator System (ie, Canadarm) makes a rude gesture at you. ;-)
>>
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
--Remove Clothes to Reply!--
A Chicken Crossing The Road, Is Poultry in Motion!
Rob Kleinschmidt
<scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
> >> On Jul 28, 1:00 pm, "Scott Hendryx"
> >> <scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
> >>>>> More than you ever wanted to know:
>
> >>>>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=G...
>
> >>> Thanks,
>
> >> You're welcome.
>
> >> So how did you manage to torque the shock bolt off ?
> >> Backing off or tightening ? I've done worse, but I was
> >> just sort of curious.
>
> Well, I mounted the shock, hand tightened the nuts, then set my Clicker type
> Craftsman torque wrench to 25 foot pound as stated in my manual. I tightened
> the lower and uppper nuts until they were snug, then tried to torque them
> until it clicked....It never clicked and then snapped the bolt off with
> about 3 1/2 turns worth of thread left. I rode around like that this
> weekend, but will have to get it fixed here soon.
I had a similar experience with a clicker wrench years
ago. This one had an adjustment on it that either I or the
kids had screwed up.
I have preferred to use beam wrenches ever since.
Most of my work I do with a 25 ft./lb beam wrench,
but I also have 50 and 150 ft./lb wrenches for the
occasional heavier job.
You're pretty sure the shock isn't going to fall off
I hope.
> I was following the directions in the manual. I can assure you that the
> nuta were not on that tight to begin with as it took very little effort to
> remove all 4 of the nuts. I'm starting to wonder if the interpetation
> between them metric bastards is off and it should have been inch pounds!
25 ft./lb sounds OK for a shock bolt.. (Dunno exactly what
size, but I'm figuring maybe a 17 mm head.) There are tables
of standard torque values that you can use for a sanity check:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=standard+torque+values&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I dunno if Craftsman still stands by their tools or not, but
I'd start with the place I bought the wrench. Back in the day,
I'd have expected a lifetime guarantee, no questions asked.
Rob Kleinschmidt
Datesfat ? Is that you ?
Martin Walker
"Scott Hendryx" wrote:
> I'm a fucking Texas red neck, that shit ain't gonna happen. I'll either
> pay
> someone else to do it, or buy myself the most rediculously expenseive and
> accurate torquing device out there. Or, since I work for a aerospace
> company, I should be able to find something in one of the facilities....
>
Do we both work for the same company? I generally calibrate in/lb wrenches
with calibrated weights hung from a balance beam that's attached to one end
of a spindle, and the wrench attaches to the other end of the spindle. If
there's 100 lbs hanging on the beam 1 foot from the center of the spindle,
the wrench must click at 100 ft/lb +/- whatever tolerance is specified. If
you really want to buy something fancy, these look nice:
http://www.etorque.com/html/ltt.htm
J. Clarke
> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>>> On Jul 28, 1:00 pm, "Scott Hendryx"
>>> <scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> More than you ever wanted to know:
>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=G...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> You're welcome.
>>>
>>> So how did you manage to torque the shock bolt off ?
>>> Backing off or tightening ? I've done worse, but I was
>>> just sort of curious.
>
> Well, I mounted the shock, hand tightened the nuts, then set my
> Clicker type Craftsman torque wrench to 25 foot pound as stated in my
> manual. I tightened the lower and uppper nuts until they were snug,
> then tried to torque them until it clicked....It never clicked and
> then snapped the bolt off with about 3 1/2 turns worth of thread
> left. I rode around like that this weekend, but will have to get it
> fixed here soon.
25 foot pounds isn't much and the degree of click you feel depends on the
torque setting (at least on every clicker torque wrench I've used that has
been the case), so you may have just not felt the click, especially if you
had already hand tightened them past 25, which is easy to do if you snugged
them with a wrench.
Outback Jon
> Or as Rob K. suggests, put two torque wrenches back to back using a
> suitable
> 12 point socket, easy peasy.
>
But that's only good if one wrench is already calibrated.
--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE
outba...@g.no.sp.am.mail.com
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 32
2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157
Mark Olson
> Mark Olson wrote:
>> Or as Rob K. suggests, put two torque wrenches back to back using a
>> suitable
>> 12 point socket, easy peasy.
>>
>
> But that's only good if one wrench is already calibrated.
Which you can do yourself with the first principles derived method I
previously suggested, to whatever degree of accuracy and precision you
care to strive for. Certainly good enough for me and plenty of other
people who aren't hung up on a meaningless hunt for precision that isn't
needed in vehicle maintenance setting.
You can do a sort of Monte Carlo method, too. In the real world,
what are the chances that N randomly selected torque wrenches are all
miscalibrated to the degree that you can't even rely on the median of
their error distribution to be acceptably close to zero?
If I really cared I might well bring my personal torque wrench into my
place of work and test it against an NIST traceable calibrated torque
wrench, but even if one was available to me I probably wouldn't bother.
Rob Kleinschmidt
> Mark Olson wrote:
> > Or as Rob K. suggests, put two torque wrenches back to back using a
> > suitable
> > 12 point socket, easy peasy.
>
> But that's only good if one wrench is already calibrated.
If they don't agree you definitely check further.
If they agree, I'd figure it's unlikely that they're
both out of calibration by exactly the same amount.
Seems unlikely that they'd both agree and both
be off enough to snap bolts.
With beam wrenches, fuggedaboudit. They
don't really seem to go out.
Scott Hendryx
Well, I bought a small thickness type 17mm nut and a spring type flat
washers to help hold it on. The I squirted on some hardening locktight. It
should be ok, but I won't be riding like a maniac anyway.
>>
>>> I was following the directions in the manual. I can assure you
>>> that the nuta were not on that tight to begin with as it took very
>>> little effort to remove all 4 of the nuts. I'm starting to wonder
>>> if the interpetation between them metric bastards is off and it
>>> should have been inch pounds!
>>
>> 25 ft./lb sounds OK for a shock bolt.. (Dunno exactly what
>> size, but I'm figuring maybe a 17 mm head.) There are tables
>> of standard torque values that you can use for a sanity check:
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=standard+torque+values&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
>>
>> I dunno if Craftsman still stands by their tools or not, but
>> I'd start with the place I bought the wrench. Back in the day,
>> I'd have expected a lifetime guarantee, no questions asked.
I hear that on some clicker types, after you use them your suppose to reset
the dials back to 0 to reset it. I've never done that and have been using
that wrench for 10 years. The last time I used it was for tightening the
blades on my Kawasaki mower at 100 foot pounds.
Scott Hendryx
Nice...
I work for NOC on the US stock exchange.
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
Scott Hendryx
I didn't feel or hear any clicks, I gotta a feeling it was still hung up at
100 ft pounds which is what I last used it for.
Outback Jon
> With beam wrenches, fuggedaboudit. They
> don't really seem to go out.
Besides, by now, all of us on reeky have read about how heat couldn't
possibly weaken steel enough to make the towers collapse. And therefore
couldn't have any effect on torque wrenches... :)
Martin Walker
> Martin Walker wrote:
>>> "Scott Hendryx" wrote:
>>>> I'm a fucking Texas red neck, that shit ain't gonna happen. I'll
>>>> either pay
>>>> someone else to do it, or buy myself the most rediculously
>>>> expenseive and accurate torquing device out there. Or, since I work
>>>> for a aerospace company, I should be able to find something in one
>>>> of the facilities....
>>>>
>>> Well, it's a small world. I run a calibration lab for an aerospace
>>> company. Do we both work for the same company? I generally calibrate
>>> in/lb wrenches with calibrated weights hung from a balance beam
>>> that's attached to one end of a spindle, and the wrench attaches to
>>> the other end of the spindle. If there's 100 lbs hanging on the beam
>>> 1 foot from the center of the spindle, the wrench must click at 100
>>> ft/lb +/- whatever tolerance is specified. If you really want to buy
>>> something fancy, these look nice:
>>>
>>> http://www.etorque.com/html/ltt.htm
>
> Nice...
>
> I work for NOC on the US stock exchange.
>
contractor).
J. Clarke
Does it click at 100 pounds or so?
By the way, with clicker torque wrenches, you should always back off the
torqe to the lowest setting before storing them.
Scott Hendryx
I've never done that, I've always stored them as I last used em. Yes, it
clicked at 100 pound.
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
MikeWhy
> Anyway, how would you go about calibrating a torque wrench?
Borrow the neighbor's wrench. If the two differ, drive to Sears. Either buy
a new one blindly, or explain (lie) to the inquisitive sales staff that
you're comparing their stock against your known good wrench. If your wrench
still differs, buy the replacement, or give up on the concept as inadequate
for your needs.
J. Clarke
With the result that you have just observed. Read the book that came with
the last one you got.
> Yes, it
> clicked at 100 pound.
Was that when it was set for 25 or for 100?
Road Glidin' Don
> By the way, with clicker torque wrenches, you should always back off the
> torqe to the lowest setting before storing them.
Perzactly.
Road Glidin' Don
> Scott Hendryx wrote:
>
> so you may have just not felt the click, especially if you
> had already hand tightened them past 25, which is easy to do if you snugged
> them with a wrench.
I doubt anyone could hand-tighten a bolt anywhere close to 25 ft-lbs.
The clicks sure approach the inaudible in those lower torque settings
though. And, in some cases, no audible (or felt) click at all
(happened to me once). So you always have to let your common sense
override your trust in the wrench if think it should have clicked, but
didn't.
Beam wrenches won't lie to you like that, but they're not terribly
accurate either, IMO.
> >>> I generally use nylock nuts on my shock bolts and
> >>> never torque them down anywhere near hard enough
> >>> to snap stuff.
>
> > I was following the directions in the manual. I can assure you that
> > the nuta were not on that tight to begin with as it took very little
> > effort to remove all 4 of the nuts. I'm starting to wonder if the
> > interpetation between them metric bastards is off and it should have
> > been inch pounds!
If it was inch-pounds, that would have translated to about 2 ft-lbs,
so that wouldn't be the problem.
Robert Bolton
>Scott Hendryx wrote:
>
>> A Torque Wrench???
>
>1. Clamp wrench in vise.
>
>2. Attach horizontal metal rod.
>
>3. Hang known weight from other end of rod.
>
>4. Measure rod length.
>
>5. Do the math to compute known torque.
>
>6. Compare to wrench indication.
>
>Refinements for better accuracy:
>
>* record wrench readout with horizontal unweighted rod
>for use in step 5
>
>* arrange for the unweighted rod to incline slightly so that
>calibration measurement is taken when load rotates rod down
>to the horizontal
>
I have only one torque wrench, which is of the clicker variety. It
goes up into some high numbers (100 ft.lb I think), so I was hesitant
to use it when I needed a small torque, like something around 10 or 15
ft.lbs.
To check it's calibration, I first weighed myself with and without
holding a 10 lb weight. I knew the accuracy of my scale because I get
weighed at the doc's each year when I get my annual physical. Having
established the accuracy of my 10 lb weight, I measured along the
handle of the torque wrench 12 inches out from the mid point of the
socket peg. It turned out that 12 inches was the midpoint of the
wrench's hand grip.
I set the wrench to just over 10 ft.lbs (crudely 11 ft.lb), locked the
socket peg in a vice with the handle one click up from perpendicular
to the floor (just enough so the rope wouldn't slide of the handle),
tied a rope around the 12 inch out point, Duc taped the rope to the
handle so it wouldn't accidentally slip, tied the 10 pound weight to
the rope, and slowly lowered the weight until its full weight was on
the rope.
It didn't click, so I reset the wrench to 10 ft.lbs and slowly lowered
the weight again. It clicked, telling me the wrench was accurate for
my taste, even at the far low end of its range.
Robert
Scott Hendryx
100, torquing a mowerblade/
J. Clarke
When set at 25 does it not click, click at what feels like about a quarter
the force you used on the mower blade, or click with you applying about the
same force you used on the mower blade?
Scott Hendryx
I can't answer that right now as I work during the week in the DFW area and
my bike is at my lake house. So is my tools and my wife. I will prolly just
use it as a breaker bar, since I've obviously been miss using it over the
years. I'm in computers, I never read the directions and I don't remember
ever having any for the wrench. After reading some of the on-line stuff it
seems about everything you shouldn't do with a torque wrench, I do. Like
using is to loosen 125 pound torqued RV wheels.
I'll buy a new one this weekend. I've been looking at the dial type.
Kevin
never set a clicker to 0 you bring them down to appx 10% of the low end.
if you go to 0 you may unhook the spring inside. but yes they are
supposed to loosen them after each use. KB
--
THUNDERSNAKE #9
Protect your rights or "Lose" them
The 2nd Admendment guarantees the others
Tim
<scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> A Torque Wrench???
>
> I replaced the air shocks on my Nomad Saturday with some Progressive 421
> series heavy duty shocks. Besides the shock not mounting properly without a
> separately ordered spacer kit, when I went to torque down the shock mounting
> nuts, the lower right side mounting bolt twisted off.....
>
> Now instead of saving myself some money by doing my own shock install, I'm
> gonna have to take it to the shop to get the swing arm shock mount
> replaced...
>
> Anyway, how would you go about calibrating a torque wrench?
Scott, did you actually tear the shock mount stud off the frame, using
a torque wrench, set to the specified torque?
Cause if so, in addition to wondering if the torque wrench was
properly calibrated, I would be wondering if the weld on the shock
mount stud was defective from the factory!
Tim
Tim
> >> <scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
> >>>>> More than you ever wanted to know:
>
> >>>>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torque+wrench+calibration&btnG=G...
>
> >>> Thanks,
>
> >> You're welcome.
>
> >> So how did you manage to torque the shock bolt off ?
> >> Backing off or tightening ? I've done worse, but I was
> >> just sort of curious.
>
> Well, I mounted the shock, hand tightened the nuts, then set my Clicker type
> Craftsman torque wrench to 25 foot pound as stated in my manual. I tightened
> the lower and uppper nuts until they were snug, then tried to torque them
> until it clicked....It never clicked and then snapped the bolt off with
> about 3 1/2 turns worth of thread left. I rode around like that this
> weekend, but will have to get it fixed here soon.
>
>
>
> >> never torque them down anywhere near hard enough
> >> to snap stuff.
>
> nuta were not on that tight to begin with as it took very little effort to
> remove all 4 of the nuts. I'm starting to wonder if the interpetation
> between them metric bastards is off and it should have been inch pounds!
Ah. disregard my (moments ago) earlier post.
25 ft-lbs seems about right to me; maybe even a little low. I
wouldn't want to ride a bike with shock absorbers bolted on with only
25 in-lbs of torque.